April 10, 2026

Best of 2025 | Carrie Culberson: The True Story of Ohio’s Infamous No-Body Murder Case

Best of 2025 | Carrie Culberson: The True Story of Ohio’s Infamous No-Body Murder Case
Apple Podcasts podcast player badge
Spotify podcast player badge
Spreaker podcast player badge
Audible podcast player badge
Castro podcast player badge
RSS Feed podcast player badge
Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon Spreaker podcast player icon Audible podcast player icon Castro podcast player icon RSS Feed podcast player icon

Carrie Culberson was just 22 years old when she vanished from Blanchester, Ohio in August 1996. What followed became one of the state’s most haunting true crime cases: a young woman missing, a violent boyfriend at the center of suspicion, a town shaken by fear and rumor, and a murder conviction without a body. For this Best of 2025 revisit, we’re returning to one of the most gripping and unforgettable episodes of Terrifying & True.

This story has all the elements that make a case impossible to forget: a terrifying pattern of domestic violence, eyewitnesses who heard Carrie’s cries for help, deeply troubling investigative failures, and a family forced to fight for justice even as Carrie’s body remained missing. It’s one of the most engrossing episodes we released in 2025, and it absolutely deserves a revisit.

In this episode, we trace the final hours before Carrie disappeared, the escalating abuse in her relationship with Vincent Doan, and the chilling testimony that helped prosecutors build one of Ohio’s most infamous no-body homicide cases. We also dig into the mishandling of the investigation, the courtroom battle that followed, and the long emotional aftermath for Carrie’s family and community.

Inside this episode:

- Carrie Culberson’s disappearance and the disturbing final night she was seen alive
- The abusive relationship that turned deadly
- Eyewitness accounts that helped shape the case against Vincent Doan
- Police failures and conflict-of-interest allegations that cast a shadow over the investigation
- The trial and conviction in one of Ohio’s most well-known no-body murder cases
- The lasting fight for justice and answers as Carrie’s family continues to seek her remains

If you’re drawn to Ohio true crime, missing persons cases, domestic violence homicide cases, and emotionally powerful stories where justice comes with no real closure, this is one of the strongest episodes Terrifying & True has ever done. This Best of 2025 re-air is a chance to revisit a case that still haunts Ohio—and still demands to be remembered. We’re telling that story tonight.

🎧 LISTEN NOW and subscribe for spine-tingling horror stories every week!

🎉 Unlock exclusive bonus episodes and support the show on Patreon!
👉 WeeklySpooky.com/Join

📬 Contact Us / Submit Your Horror Story!


🎵 Music by Ray Mattis 👉 Check out Ray’s incredible work here !
👨‍💼 Executive Producers: Rob Fields, Bobbletopia.com
🎥 Produced by: Daniel Wilder
🌐 Explore more terrifying tales at: WeeklySpooky.com
WEBVTT

1
00:00:02.600 --> 00:00:06.639
For our one hundredth episode of Terrifying and True, we're

2
00:00:06.719 --> 00:00:10.160
honoring our good buddy and listener, Wolf Dan with his

3
00:00:10.279 --> 00:00:15.080
request to cover one of Ohio's most haunting unsolved crimes.

4
00:00:15.800 --> 00:00:19.000
In nineteen ninety six, twenty two year old Carrie Culberson

5
00:00:19.480 --> 00:00:23.519
vanished after a violent encounter with her ex. Her body

6
00:00:23.640 --> 00:00:27.839
was never found, but someone was still convicted of her murder.

7
00:00:28.600 --> 00:00:32.880
What you were about to pet you is peri today

8
00:00:34.439 --> 00:00:42.119
based on witness accounts, testimonies, and public record. This is

9
00:00:43.960 --> 00:00:58.039
terrifying and treat Treat, Blanchester, Ohio, August twenty eighth, nineteen

10
00:00:58.200 --> 00:01:03.399
ninety six. Why at summer night, shattered by a scream,

11
00:01:04.200 --> 00:01:07.560
a young woman runs for her life beneath the glow

12
00:01:08.200 --> 00:01:14.159
of a street lamp, but she's never seen again. Twenty

13
00:01:14.200 --> 00:01:18.680
two year old Carrie Coulberson vanished without a trace after

14
00:01:18.719 --> 00:01:24.079
a violent confrontation with her ex boyfriend. Her body was

15
00:01:24.159 --> 00:01:29.879
never found, her car gone, and yet a jury convicted

16
00:01:30.400 --> 00:01:34.400
her killer. What happened to Carrie? And why did local

17
00:01:34.439 --> 00:01:38.200
authorities seem to protect the suspect instead of the victim.

18
00:01:38.680 --> 00:01:41.480
For our one hundredth episode of Terrifying and True, we'll

19
00:01:41.519 --> 00:01:58.840
be telling that story after this. Late August nineteen ninety six,

20
00:01:59.400 --> 00:02:04.359
blanchet To, Ohio, a sticky summer night hangs over the

21
00:02:04.439 --> 00:02:10.759
sleepy small town street in the darkness just before midnight.

22
00:02:11.479 --> 00:02:17.919
A sudden scream pierces the silence. Help me. A young

23
00:02:17.960 --> 00:02:24.800
woman's voice cries out, raw with terror. On a moonlit

24
00:02:24.919 --> 00:02:30.439
front lawn, A frantic figure, twenty two year old Carrie Culberson,

25
00:02:31.240 --> 00:02:37.599
is seen desperately running her silhouette, illuminated by a flickering

26
00:02:37.680 --> 00:02:43.280
street light. Chasing her is a man she knows all

27
00:02:43.400 --> 00:02:48.599
too well, her on and off boyfriend, twenty four year

28
00:02:48.599 --> 00:02:53.039
old Vincent Dowan. He catches up to her and grabs

29
00:02:53.080 --> 00:02:58.319
a fistful of her hair. Neighbors peering from their windows

30
00:02:58.439 --> 00:03:04.719
watch in alarm. As Carrie struggles. Dowan's voice, rough with rage,

31
00:03:05.159 --> 00:03:09.000
shatters the humid air. I told you if you ever

32
00:03:09.080 --> 00:03:14.080
tried to leave me, I'd kill you, he snarls. Carrie

33
00:03:14.159 --> 00:03:18.719
is pummeled with fists as she fights to break free.

34
00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:23.080
For a moment, her pleas for help cut through the night,

35
00:03:23.919 --> 00:03:29.400
and then, with a squeal of tires on asphalt, there

36
00:03:29.479 --> 00:03:34.719
is only silence. The little red Honda CRX they had

37
00:03:34.759 --> 00:03:41.439
been seen beside is now gone. Disappearing into the darkness.

38
00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:49.240
By dawn, Carrie Coulberson had vanished without a trace. Her

39
00:03:49.280 --> 00:03:53.840
family would awaken to an empty house and a nightmare

40
00:03:54.759 --> 00:04:00.000
that was just beginning. In the coming days, this quiet

41
00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:04.080
at Ohio village would be plunged into a real life

42
00:04:04.240 --> 00:04:10.840
mystery worthy of the darkest crime drama, a mystery of

43
00:04:11.000 --> 00:04:16.439
love and violence, of a body that refused to surface,

44
00:04:17.319 --> 00:04:22.839
and of justice sought in the haunting absence of a victim.

45
00:04:24.079 --> 00:04:29.199
The story of Carrie's disappearance and the search for answers

46
00:04:29.279 --> 00:04:35.439
unfolds like a cinematic thriller. A beautiful young woman gone missing,

47
00:04:36.279 --> 00:04:41.920
a violent lover as the prime suspect, a town divided

48
00:04:42.399 --> 00:04:48.120
by secrets, and a determined family fighting for the truth

49
00:04:48.720 --> 00:04:55.360
in the face of unimaginable loss. Blanchester, Ohio, is the

50
00:04:55.519 --> 00:05:02.680
kind of tight knit Midwestern town where everyone's seemingly knows everyone.

51
00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:08.399
In nineteen ninety six, its population hovered around four thousand,

52
00:05:08.519 --> 00:05:14.560
two hundred. A one stoplight village amid the cornfields, about

53
00:05:14.639 --> 00:05:19.639
thirty five miles outside of Cincinnati, It's the sort of

54
00:05:19.759 --> 00:05:25.959
place that seemed safe, even idyllic, the kind of small

55
00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:30.519
town where parents felt comfortable letting their children ride bikes

56
00:05:30.920 --> 00:05:35.639
down sleepy streets and where neighbors greet each other at

57
00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:41.800
the grocery store. Nothing bad ever happens here, people used

58
00:05:41.839 --> 00:05:47.720
to think, But Blanchester would soon learn that even in

59
00:05:47.839 --> 00:05:55.560
quiet towns, darkness can lurk behind closed doors. In this

60
00:05:55.839 --> 00:06:01.959
unassuming community, Carrie Culberson was a loved figure with a

61
00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:07.680
warm smile and vibrant personality. Carrie was often described as

62
00:06:08.319 --> 00:06:13.519
truly someone special by those who knew her. She had

63
00:06:13.600 --> 00:06:19.160
big brown eyes, a cheerleader's energy, and homecoming queen looks,

64
00:06:19.680 --> 00:06:24.560
as one account later put it, In high school, Carrie

65
00:06:24.600 --> 00:06:28.879
had been everywhere. She served as a class officer and

66
00:06:28.959 --> 00:06:33.720
appeared on the homecoming court all four years, balanced by

67
00:06:33.839 --> 00:06:38.839
nine years as a cheerleader. She sang in the choir,

68
00:06:39.360 --> 00:06:43.959
played sports from soccer to volleyball, and even played the

69
00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:49.800
bells in the school band. After graduating in nineteen ninety two,

70
00:06:50.519 --> 00:06:55.439
Carrie explored college. She enrolled at the University of Cincinnati

71
00:06:56.120 --> 00:07:00.560
as a pre law student, but ultimately found her passion

72
00:07:00.680 --> 00:07:06.639
closer to home, becoming a licensed nail technician. Ever ambitious,

73
00:07:07.079 --> 00:07:11.399
she hadn't given up on furthering her education In fact,

74
00:07:12.319 --> 00:07:16.519
the day before she disappeared, Carrie took a nursing school

75
00:07:16.519 --> 00:07:21.319
preadmission test at a local community college, hoping to launch

76
00:07:21.319 --> 00:07:28.360
a career in healthcare. By her early twenties, Carrie seemed

77
00:07:28.399 --> 00:07:31.879
to have the world at her feet. Friends and family

78
00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:37.319
remember her as bubbly, genuine and fun loving, the kind

79
00:07:37.319 --> 00:07:40.959
of young woman who could light up a room. She

80
00:07:41.160 --> 00:07:46.480
doated on her family, her mother, Deborah Culberson, her father Roger,

81
00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:50.680
and her younger sister Christina, often trying out new low

82
00:07:50.720 --> 00:07:54.879
fat recipes on her mom and little sister and joking

83
00:07:55.319 --> 00:08:01.319
about future domestic bliss. Quote. Well, the world needs little

84
00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:06.120
white picket fences, she would say with a laugh, dreaming

85
00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:11.639
of having her own happy family some day. Raised with

86
00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:16.920
confidence and strong willed by nature, Carrie wasn't someone anyone

87
00:08:17.040 --> 00:08:21.680
thought would fall into the trappings of an abusive relationship.

88
00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:25.279
That's why it was so shocking to those close to

89
00:08:25.360 --> 00:08:28.839
her when they began to see the signs of trouble

90
00:08:29.519 --> 00:08:35.159
with the man she was dating. Carrie met Vincent Dowan

91
00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:40.559
in the mid nineteen nineties, and at first their relationship

92
00:08:40.679 --> 00:08:45.600
seemed like a typical young romance, but it quickly spiraled

93
00:08:45.639 --> 00:08:51.559
into something dangerous. Vince was a local guy with a

94
00:08:52.120 --> 00:08:59.519
troubled reputation quote violent, controlling, and prone to explosive jealousy,

95
00:09:00.120 --> 00:09:04.399
as friends would later describe him. Less than a year

96
00:09:04.480 --> 00:09:11.840
after they began dating, the abuse started and escalated very quickly.

97
00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:23.840
In one early incident, Doan smashed the windows of Carrie's

98
00:09:23.879 --> 00:09:30.120
car while she was sitting inside, glass flying a terrifying

99
00:09:30.159 --> 00:09:36.759
outburst that foreshadowed worse to come soon. He was hitting

100
00:09:36.840 --> 00:09:40.840
her on at least one occasion so brutally that he

101
00:09:40.919 --> 00:09:45.320
bruised her kidneys. He would throw her across rooms in

102
00:09:45.399 --> 00:09:49.559
fits of rage. Friends saw Carrie turn up with black

103
00:09:49.600 --> 00:09:56.080
eyes and bruises trying to cover for Vince's violence. Her

104
00:09:56.120 --> 00:09:59.679
boss at the salon recalled how Carrie once came to

105
00:09:59.759 --> 00:10:04.039
work with finger shaped marks on her neck and a

106
00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:10.039
bruised temple, signs of strangulation and blows to the head.

107
00:10:11.559 --> 00:10:15.480
Dowan's violence peaked in the summer of nineteen ninety six,

108
00:10:16.399 --> 00:10:21.840
just weeks before Carrie went missing. In late July, during

109
00:10:21.879 --> 00:10:26.840
a dispute, Vince grabbed a heavy space heater and smashed

110
00:10:26.879 --> 00:10:31.080
it into the back of Carrie's head, splitting her scalp.

111
00:10:32.600 --> 00:10:37.440
She survived the assault, but needed five surgical staples in

112
00:10:37.600 --> 00:10:43.639
order to close the gash. This time, Carrie did something courageous.

113
00:10:44.879 --> 00:10:49.600
She filed a criminal complaint against Dowan for misdemeanor assault.

114
00:10:50.600 --> 00:10:53.320
It was not the first time she had gone to

115
00:10:53.399 --> 00:10:58.159
the police for help. At least three times prior she

116
00:10:58.279 --> 00:11:04.919
had reported Vince's abuse. Each time the response was tepid.

117
00:11:06.200 --> 00:11:13.120
Dowan somehow evaded arrest or serious investigation until Carrie herself

118
00:11:13.559 --> 00:11:18.799
pressed charges for the space heater attack. Finally, a court

119
00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:22.240
date was set. Vince Dowan was due in court on

120
00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:27.120
those assault charges the week after August twenty eighth, nineteen

121
00:11:27.200 --> 00:11:32.720
ninety six. For once, it seemed Carrie was standing up

122
00:11:33.240 --> 00:11:39.399
and the law would intervene, but Vince Dowan had other plans.

123
00:11:40.960 --> 00:11:45.559
Those close to Carrie later realized that leaving Vince was

124
00:11:45.600 --> 00:11:50.240
the most dangerous time for her. Quote every time she

125
00:11:50.279 --> 00:11:53.320
attempted to leave was when he would beat her and

126
00:11:53.399 --> 00:11:55.960
tell her if I can't have you, no one can.

127
00:11:56.799 --> 00:12:03.000
Her family recalled, threatened not just carry but also her

128
00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:07.919
loved ones, warning he'd hurt her mother or sister if

129
00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:13.759
Carrie ever broke up with him. He stalked her, controlled

130
00:12:13.799 --> 00:12:20.360
who she saw, and even held her at gunpoint. In fact, chillingly,

131
00:12:21.200 --> 00:12:26.120
just a few days before Carrie disappeared, Dowan abducted her

132
00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:32.759
and held her captive for five hours at gunpoint. She

133
00:12:32.879 --> 00:12:37.279
eventually got away from that encounter with her life, but

134
00:12:37.360 --> 00:12:42.480
it was a sign that Vince's obsession was reaching a

135
00:12:42.519 --> 00:12:49.120
fever pitch. As one prosecutor would later theorize, Dowan was

136
00:12:49.279 --> 00:12:53.759
desperate to stop Carrie from testifying against him on the

137
00:12:53.799 --> 00:13:02.080
assault charges or from escaping his grasp once and the

138
00:13:02.200 --> 00:13:08.399
stage was set for a tragedy. Carrie's friends and family

139
00:13:08.759 --> 00:13:13.879
were urging her to leave him for good, terrified by

140
00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:20.320
the abuse they'd witnessed. Carrie herself was afraid, but she

141
00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:25.240
seemed to be gathering the resolve to break free. In

142
00:13:25.360 --> 00:13:30.679
late August nineteen ninety six, despite her fear, she was

143
00:13:30.759 --> 00:13:37.240
planning to end the relationship for good. Vince apparently sensed

144
00:13:37.279 --> 00:13:40.720
it coming. He was not about to let Carrie go.

145
00:13:41.759 --> 00:13:45.960
In his mind, she was his, and if he couldn't

146
00:13:45.960 --> 00:13:51.759
control her, he'd make good on his threats. The darkness

147
00:13:51.799 --> 00:13:55.600
that had been building in their two year relationship was

148
00:13:55.639 --> 00:14:02.480
about to engulf them both. When August twenty eighth, nineteen

149
00:14:02.600 --> 00:14:08.279
ninety six, began as a normal day, brimming with late

150
00:14:08.360 --> 00:14:14.080
summer activity. That evening, Carrie joined her friends for a

151
00:14:14.120 --> 00:14:18.840
weekly ritual. She played in a co ed volleyball league

152
00:14:18.879 --> 00:14:24.399
in a town nearby called Morrow. Carrie loved sports, and

153
00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:27.720
the friendly game followed by a trip to a local bar,

154
00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:32.679
was something she always looked forward to. But that night,

155
00:14:33.399 --> 00:14:39.399
an uninvited visitor showed up at the sand courts, Vincent Dowan.

156
00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:46.039
He was angry, angry that Carrie hadn't come to see him,

157
00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:50.480
angry perhaps that she was spending time with others when

158
00:14:50.559 --> 00:14:56.559
he was facing legal trouble. According to Carrie's friend Jessica Williams,

159
00:14:56.919 --> 00:15:00.120
who was with her at the game, Dowan tried to

160
00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:04.240
get Carrie to leave with him mid game, insisting she

161
00:15:04.440 --> 00:15:10.120
go with him, but she refused. On the surface, Carrie

162
00:15:10.159 --> 00:15:15.200
stayed calm, shaking her head no as Vince glowered at

163
00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:19.480
her from the sidelines. She had promised to drive her

164
00:15:19.519 --> 00:15:23.720
teammates home that night. She wasn't about to abandon them

165
00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:30.399
for him. Frustrated, Dowan peeled out of the parking lot tires,

166
00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:35.600
squealing and frustration. Jessica later recalled that after the game,

167
00:15:36.200 --> 00:15:41.000
at Carrie's request, they drove by Dowan's house in Blanchester

168
00:15:41.600 --> 00:15:45.080
a couple of times, perhaps to see if he was

169
00:15:45.240 --> 00:15:51.600
home or still fuming, before Jessica dropped Carrie off back

170
00:15:51.639 --> 00:15:57.159
at her house on West Main Street around eleven thirty pm.

171
00:15:58.159 --> 00:16:03.480
Blanchester's streets were dark and quiet at that hour. A neighbor,

172
00:16:03.879 --> 00:16:08.559
Kimberly Lanyard, was sitting on her porch enjoying the late

173
00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:13.559
summer night, and she saw Jessica's car pull up. It

174
00:16:13.720 --> 00:16:18.080
was about eleven forty five pm when Carrie stepped out

175
00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:21.480
in front of her home, said good night to her friend,

176
00:16:22.159 --> 00:16:31.399
and went inside. But within minutes Lanyard noticed something was strange.

177
00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:36.600
Carrie's red Honda CRX, a distinctive little two door car,

178
00:16:37.320 --> 00:16:42.759
backing out of the Culberson driveway. The car's headlights were off,

179
00:16:43.559 --> 00:16:48.879
which struck Lanyard as odd. She watched the dark car

180
00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:53.440
roll halfway down the block before its headlights flicked on

181
00:16:54.399 --> 00:16:59.200
and it drove off into the night. Carrie had just

182
00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:04.359
gotten home. Why was she leaving again so soon and

183
00:17:04.519 --> 00:17:10.559
in such a stealthy manner. Lanyard would later report this

184
00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:16.359
peculiar sight, not realizing at the time that Carrie herself

185
00:17:17.079 --> 00:17:22.680
might not have been behind the wheel. Around the same time,

186
00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:28.680
another neighbor across town was about to witness the chaos

187
00:17:29.400 --> 00:17:41.799
described in our opening scene. Billy Joe Brown lived across

188
00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:47.079
the street from Vincent Dowan's house. Sometime near twelve thirty

189
00:17:47.119 --> 00:17:51.319
a m. As she was getting ready for bed, Brown

190
00:17:51.559 --> 00:17:56.839
was startled by the sounds of a commotion outside. She

191
00:17:56.920 --> 00:17:59.759
peeked out to see under the glow of a street

192
00:17:59.799 --> 00:18:05.480
land there was that same little red car parked near

193
00:18:05.599 --> 00:18:10.960
Dowan's home, and a man and woman in a heated struggle.

194
00:18:12.400 --> 00:18:16.839
Brown recognized Vince Doan. He was a familiar face she

195
00:18:17.000 --> 00:18:21.759
often saw across the way, and she recognized the woman

196
00:18:21.880 --> 00:18:26.000
with him as the young lady who visited him frequently,

197
00:18:26.759 --> 00:18:34.240
Carrie Coulberson. What Brown saw next was horrifying. Carrie was

198
00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:38.759
screaming for help and trying to flee, but Vince was

199
00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:45.200
on her, yelling furiously. Brown distinctly heard Carrie cry out

200
00:18:45.640 --> 00:18:50.279
help me, while Dowan was shouting something like I told

201
00:18:50.319 --> 00:18:56.039
you next time, I'd kill you. Brown watched as Vince

202
00:18:56.160 --> 00:19:02.400
dragged Carrie and struck her repeatedly, then a sudden silence,

203
00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:09.720
perhaps Carrie was forced into the car. Moments later, Brown

204
00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:13.680
heard the squeal of tires. By the time she looked

205
00:19:13.720 --> 00:19:20.279
out again, the street was empty, The red car and

206
00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:27.240
Carrie were gone. What happened in those fraught moments would

207
00:19:27.319 --> 00:19:32.880
become the subject of testimony and speculation, but one thing

208
00:19:33.559 --> 00:19:40.480
is certain. Carrie Culberson was never seen again after that night.

209
00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:47.319
Sometime after midnight, she vanished, as if into thin air.

210
00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:53.160
When the sun rose on August twenty ninth, nineteen ninety six,

211
00:19:53.960 --> 00:19:59.759
Debbie Culberson since something was wrong. She noticed that Carrie's

212
00:19:59.799 --> 00:20:03.079
read at Honda was not in the driveway where it

213
00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:07.799
should be. Carrie always came home at night, and if

214
00:20:07.799 --> 00:20:13.559
she ever stayed elsewhere, she would call. Debbie's worry quickly

215
00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:19.680
turned to panic when she couldn't find Carrie anywhere. She

216
00:20:19.799 --> 00:20:25.039
began driving around town, retracing routes Carrie might have taken.

217
00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:30.200
Her first instinct was to drive straight to Vincent Dowan's

218
00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:35.119
house or to his father's place, somewhere where she might

219
00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:40.839
find her daughter. At Lawrence Baker's house, Vincent's father, Debbie

220
00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:45.160
found Vince and demanded to know if he had seen Carrie.

221
00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:52.640
Vince's answers that day would later raise every possible alarm

222
00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:59.000
bell according to Debbie. The first time she asked, Vince

223
00:20:59.079 --> 00:21:04.839
claimed he hadn't seen Carrie in three days. That made

224
00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:08.640
no sense. He had shown up at her volleyball game

225
00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:13.960
just the evening prior, after all. When Debbie pressed him

226
00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:19.960
again later, Vince abruptly changed his story. Now he said

227
00:21:20.079 --> 00:21:23.799
Carrie had driven by his house around twelve thirty a

228
00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:28.640
m honking her horn, but he refused to come out.

229
00:21:29.319 --> 00:21:34.799
He claimed she was drunk. Carrie's friends would later insist

230
00:21:35.200 --> 00:21:38.960
she'd had at most one beer all night and she

231
00:21:39.160 --> 00:21:45.759
was far from intoxicated. This version still didn't square with Debbi.

232
00:21:46.519 --> 00:21:50.039
She confronted Vince a third time as the day wore on,

233
00:21:51.039 --> 00:21:56.519
and again he shifted his tail. This time, he admitted

234
00:21:56.640 --> 00:22:01.440
he did see Carrie around twelve thirty. He said she'd

235
00:22:01.480 --> 00:22:05.079
even come into his house wrapped in a towel from

236
00:22:05.079 --> 00:22:08.640
a shower he'd been taking, and that they had had

237
00:22:08.680 --> 00:22:13.160
an argument. Supposedly, he told her he didn't love her

238
00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:18.240
any more. He claimed. Carrie then sped off angrily in

239
00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:24.880
her car, never to return. Three stories in one day,

240
00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:33.720
each different. Debby's blood ran cold. She knew something was

241
00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:39.640
terribly wrong. As Thursday turned into Friday, with still no

242
00:22:39.920 --> 00:22:44.519
sign of Carrie or her car, the missing person's case

243
00:22:44.680 --> 00:22:50.759
took on increasing urgency. Carrie's family reported her missing to

244
00:22:50.839 --> 00:22:57.039
the Blanchester Police within hours of her vanishing. The investigation

245
00:22:57.240 --> 00:23:03.119
into Carrie's disappearance had now begun, but it would soon

246
00:23:03.200 --> 00:23:08.039
become apparent that the search for truth would be frustrated

247
00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:15.119
at nearly every turn. When a loved one disappears, every

248
00:23:15.240 --> 00:23:20.920
minute counts, But in Carrie Culberson's case, the initial police

249
00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:30.359
response was shockingly lackluster, even possibly compromised. Blanchester Police Chief

250
00:23:30.440 --> 00:23:35.039
Richard Peyton, the town's top lawman, happened to be a

251
00:23:35.079 --> 00:23:40.559
personal friend of the Dowan family. In those crucial early

252
00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:46.400
hours after Carrie went missing, instead of immediately treating Vincent

253
00:23:46.480 --> 00:23:51.240
Dowan as a suspect and locking down potential crime scenes,

254
00:23:51.960 --> 00:23:58.160
Chief Peyton alerted the Dowan family. He privately warned Vincent's father,

255
00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:03.920
Lawrence Baker, that Vincent would inevitably be a suspect in

256
00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:08.640
Carrie's disappearance. It was a heads up that gave the

257
00:24:08.759 --> 00:24:16.920
Doeans time to prepare, or perhaps to hide evidence. Carrie's

258
00:24:17.000 --> 00:24:22.799
family and friends, meanwhile, were not sitting idle. They fanned

259
00:24:22.839 --> 00:24:29.400
out across town posting flyers and pleading for information. The

260
00:24:29.440 --> 00:24:33.480
whole community was on alert for the missing red Honda

261
00:24:33.640 --> 00:24:40.359
CRX or any sign of Carrie. Have you seen this girl?

262
00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:45.160
Posters with Carrie's smiling face when up in shop windows.

263
00:24:46.160 --> 00:24:51.880
Tips and rumors began to trickle, in, some plausible, some

264
00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:59.039
utterly outlandish. One ghastly local rumor even suggested that Carrie

265
00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:04.559
had been fed to a lion that supposedly guarded the

266
00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:11.599
Dowan's junkyard, a horrifying notion that underscored the desperation and

267
00:25:12.559 --> 00:25:18.599
dark imagination swirling around the case. Amid the swirl of theories,

268
00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:24.759
one thing was clear. All roads of suspicion led to

269
00:25:24.960 --> 00:25:37.160
Vincent Dowan and his family's properties. Within five days of

270
00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:45.279
Carrey's disappearance, investigators, under pressure from Carry's family and county authorities,

271
00:25:46.039 --> 00:25:50.880
finally honed in on the Dowan homestead on Hunt Road,

272
00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:57.119
a rural property owned by Vincent's father. There, behind a

273
00:25:57.200 --> 00:26:02.839
cluster of trees lay a murcury pond. Acting on a tip,

274
00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:07.920
and perhaps guided by the sickening intuition that a body

275
00:26:08.039 --> 00:26:13.319
might be hidden under the water, authorities brought in search dogs.

276
00:26:14.559 --> 00:26:17.440
The dogs hit on a scent at the edge of

277
00:26:17.480 --> 00:26:23.440
the pond, strongly indicating Carrie's body could be in or

278
00:26:23.480 --> 00:26:30.759
around that water. On September third, nineteen ninety six, the

279
00:26:30.839 --> 00:26:35.160
decision was made to drain the pond to see what

280
00:26:35.359 --> 00:26:41.680
secrets it might hold. What happened next would become one

281
00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:47.359
of the most contentious aspects of the case. After the

282
00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:52.480
cadaver dogs reacted, Chief Peyton abruptly called off the search

283
00:26:53.160 --> 00:26:58.920
for the night, citing darkness or safety, no one's quite

284
00:26:58.960 --> 00:27:06.319
sure why. Shockingly, he also left the sight unguarded overnight.

285
00:27:07.279 --> 00:27:11.880
In other words, the one place on Earth that might

286
00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:19.119
contain Carrie Culberson's remains was left open and unwatched, even

287
00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:24.480
after a strong indication of human scent had been found.

288
00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:30.279
By the time law enforcement returned and drained the pond

289
00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:36.319
the next day, it was perhaps too late. They found

290
00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:40.559
only a set of footprints sunk into the pond's muddy

291
00:27:40.599 --> 00:27:46.240
bottom and no body. It looked for all the world

292
00:27:46.759 --> 00:27:50.119
as if some one had waded into the muck to

293
00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:58.480
retrieve and remove something or some one during the unguarded night.

294
00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:06.279
Investigators were horrified. The prime opportunity to recover Carrie or

295
00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:11.960
evidence of her fate from that pond had slipped right

296
00:28:12.079 --> 00:28:16.720
through their fingers, and it appeared to Carrie's family at

297
00:28:16.799 --> 00:28:23.119
least that the police chief's negligence or collusion had enabled

298
00:28:23.119 --> 00:28:29.960
the perpetrators to cover their tracks. As days turned to weeks,

299
00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:35.200
the case intensified. The Clinton County Sheriff's office and state

300
00:28:35.279 --> 00:28:40.480
investigators took on a larger role given the conflicts of

301
00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:46.200
interest in the tiny Blanchester police department. Evidence against Vincent

302
00:28:46.279 --> 00:28:51.960
Dowan continued to mount even without a body. Neighbors like

303
00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:56.200
Lanyard and Brown gave statements about what they saw that night,

304
00:28:57.119 --> 00:29:01.240
the car leaving without lights, the assault in the yard.

305
00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:07.240
Friends recounted Vince's history of abuse and how Carrie feared

306
00:29:07.880 --> 00:29:13.079
for her life. Carrie's own mother, Debbie, told police about

307
00:29:13.200 --> 00:29:22.039
Vincent's shifting stories on August twenty ninth, which looked highly suspicious.

308
00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:28.200
It became painfully clear to investigators that Carrie had likely

309
00:29:28.279 --> 00:29:33.279
been murdered that night, and that Vincent, possibly with help

310
00:29:33.559 --> 00:29:38.240
from his half brother Tracy, and others, had disposed of

311
00:29:38.279 --> 00:29:45.160
her body and her car in some unknown location. By

312
00:29:45.200 --> 00:29:50.319
early September nineteen ninety six, the focus of the investigation

313
00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:55.680
had fully turned toward Vincent Dowan. He was officially named

314
00:29:55.680 --> 00:30:00.480
a suspect, and a grand jury convened to hear evidence.

315
00:30:01.480 --> 00:30:06.319
Facing mounting pressure, the local authorities could no longer shield

316
00:30:06.599 --> 00:30:11.920
their friend's son. In November nineteen ninety six, a grand

317
00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:16.720
jury in Clinton County indicted Vincent Dowan, initially on a

318
00:30:16.839 --> 00:30:21.279
charge of kidnapping. Since no body had been found to

319
00:30:21.400 --> 00:30:27.759
prove a murder, even without Carrie's body, prosecutors were determined

320
00:30:28.279 --> 00:30:34.480
to pursue justice. As one reporter later noted, Carrie's disappearance

321
00:30:34.640 --> 00:30:38.960
was eventually ruled a homicide, even though her body was

322
00:30:39.039 --> 00:30:44.160
never found. The case was building momentum, and soon it

323
00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:48.480
would head to a dramatic trial, one that would test

324
00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:53.680
the limits of prosecuting a murder without a body. In

325
00:30:53.799 --> 00:30:58.799
July nineteen ninety seven, the eyes of the region and

326
00:30:59.000 --> 00:31:06.200
soon the nation, turned to the Clinton County Courthouse in Wilmington, Ohio,

327
00:31:06.279 --> 00:31:12.440
where Vincent Dowan's murder trial began. It had been nearly

328
00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:18.920
a year since Carrie vanished. The prosecution faced a daunting

329
00:31:19.119 --> 00:31:24.279
task convince a jury that Carrie was dead and that

330
00:31:24.440 --> 00:31:30.440
Dowan killed her, all without a body, without a murder weapon,

331
00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:37.640
and without forensic certainty. It was a circumstantial case, but

332
00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:43.400
it was also a compelling one. Over weeks of testimony,

333
00:31:43.880 --> 00:31:49.920
prosecutors presented a mosaic of evidence that peace by peace

334
00:31:50.759 --> 00:31:55.480
painted a chilling portrait of what likely happened on that

335
00:31:55.640 --> 00:32:01.960
August night. They argued of two possible motives, either of

336
00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:08.440
which or both could explain the crime. One theory was

337
00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:14.000
that Vincent Dowan, obsessively jealous and enraged that he could

338
00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:19.400
no longer control Carrie, murdered her in a final act

339
00:32:19.519 --> 00:32:24.880
of domination. The other theory was that he killed her

340
00:32:25.400 --> 00:32:29.279
to stop her from testifying against him on the assault

341
00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:35.359
charge scheduled in court the following week. In either scenario,

342
00:32:36.079 --> 00:32:39.599
the threat to his control was Carrie's intent to leave

343
00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:46.079
him for good, and Vincent acted on his oft repeated ultimatum.

344
00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:57.960
If he couldn't have her, nobody could. One by one,

345
00:32:58.640 --> 00:33:03.920
witnesses took the to recount the events surrounding the disappearance

346
00:33:04.599 --> 00:33:10.160
and Dowan's prior acts of violence. Jessica Williams described the

347
00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:14.839
volleyball game on August twenty eighth, explaining how Dowan showed

348
00:33:14.960 --> 00:33:21.160
up unannounced, angry and demanding, and how Carrie stood her

349
00:33:21.240 --> 00:33:27.880
ground refusing to leave with him. Neighbor Kimberly Lanyard testified

350
00:33:27.960 --> 00:33:32.880
about seeing Carrie's car leave her house around midnight without

351
00:33:32.920 --> 00:33:39.960
its lights on, an eerie detail suggesting stealth or duress.

352
00:33:40.680 --> 00:33:44.759
Then Billy Joe Brown riveted the courtroom with her eyewitness

353
00:33:44.839 --> 00:33:49.799
account of the fight in her front yard, how she

354
00:33:49.880 --> 00:33:55.720
saw Carrie running and screaming help me, and her Dowan bellow.

355
00:33:56.480 --> 00:33:58.880
I told you if you ever tried to leave me,

356
00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:05.319
I'd kill you, you bitch, as he beat her. Brown admitted

357
00:34:05.440 --> 00:34:08.280
she had no phone to call the police that night,

358
00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:13.559
and that her own husband initially dismissed the commotion as

359
00:34:13.599 --> 00:34:19.159
simply a drunken squabble. By the time she realized something

360
00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:26.760
truly heinous was happening, Carrie and Dowan were gone. The

361
00:34:26.840 --> 00:34:31.960
prosecution didn't stop at the disappearance. They traced what they

362
00:34:32.079 --> 00:34:38.400
believed happened in the hours after. Vicky Watson and Laurie Baker,

363
00:34:38.639 --> 00:34:44.719
relatives by marriage to Don's half brother Tracy, provided key testimony.

364
00:34:45.719 --> 00:34:49.639
Watson said she was sleeping over at Tracy Baker's house,

365
00:34:50.119 --> 00:34:55.119
Vincent's half brother, that night at three fifteen a m.

366
00:34:55.840 --> 00:35:00.440
She was awakened by a knock. Peeking through the blinde,

367
00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:07.239
she saw Vincent doan on the back deck, shirtless, looking disheveled,

368
00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:12.159
with his right hand clutching his left arm as if injured.

369
00:35:13.320 --> 00:35:17.960
He was talking to Tracy outside, but Watson couldn't hear

370
00:35:18.039 --> 00:35:24.360
the words. She did notice something peculiar. Dowan's hair was

371
00:35:24.480 --> 00:35:29.960
messy and he appeared agitated, but she saw no visible

372
00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:37.039
blood on him at that moment. Watson didn't intervene. Shortly after,

373
00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:42.559
Tracy's wife, Laurie Baker, drove Watson to work very early,

374
00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:50.280
around four am, leaving the two men alone. Laurie Baker

375
00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:57.039
herself testified next filling in crucial gaps. She confirmed that

376
00:35:57.159 --> 00:36:03.960
Vincent arrived around three point fifteen wearing only jeans, shirtless

377
00:36:04.760 --> 00:36:10.320
and smeared with blood across his chest. He was holding

378
00:36:10.360 --> 00:36:14.639
his arm as if hurt. Laurie recounted that Vincent and

379
00:36:14.719 --> 00:36:20.880
her husband, Tracy spoke in low urgent tones. Then Tracy

380
00:36:21.039 --> 00:36:26.159
came inside to grab trash bags. Vincent took a shower

381
00:36:26.199 --> 00:36:32.079
in her bathroom, washing off something one can only imagine what,

382
00:36:33.280 --> 00:36:36.079
and the two men left the house around three point

383
00:36:36.079 --> 00:36:42.000
thirty or three forty five am, carrying garbage bags and

384
00:36:42.079 --> 00:36:48.519
a gun. When they returned before dawn, roughly five am,

385
00:36:49.079 --> 00:36:54.199
both men had blood on their clothes and boots. Laurie

386
00:36:54.239 --> 00:36:58.519
testified that she handed Tracy bleach and a scrub brush

387
00:36:59.239 --> 00:37:03.719
and watch as he delivered them to Vincent, who immediately

388
00:37:04.280 --> 00:37:10.000
went to shower. Yet again, she even saw Tracy wiping

389
00:37:10.039 --> 00:37:14.360
off blood from his boots with a rag. It was

390
00:37:14.400 --> 00:37:19.960
a grim clean up scene, bleach, water and blood swirling

391
00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:28.159
away as dawn broke. Investigators later recovered some of Tracy's boots, towels,

392
00:37:28.599 --> 00:37:33.480
and his truck. Testing found blood on them, but it

393
00:37:33.559 --> 00:37:38.760
was too degraded to identify a definitive match. To carry

394
00:37:40.559 --> 00:37:45.719
through these witnesses, the prosecutors effectively walked the jury through

395
00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:51.599
a timeline of murder and cover up. The confrontation around

396
00:37:51.599 --> 00:37:56.079
twelve thirty am, the likely killing and hiding of Carrie's

397
00:37:56.079 --> 00:38:00.800
body somewhere soon after, and the convening of Vincent and

398
00:38:00.920 --> 00:38:05.400
Tracy in the pre dawn hours to dispose of evidence,

399
00:38:06.159 --> 00:38:11.360
presumably moving Carrie's body, perhaps initially hidden in that pond

400
00:38:11.920 --> 00:38:18.679
or elsewhere, to a more permanent location, and disposing of

401
00:38:18.719 --> 00:38:24.599
her car. The red Honda CRX has never been found.

402
00:38:25.039 --> 00:38:31.159
Prosecutors implied it may have been dismantled. Or crushed, perhaps

403
00:38:31.280 --> 00:38:36.280
hinting at the involvement of the Dowan family junkyard, the

404
00:38:36.320 --> 00:38:44.199
same place that spawned the macabre rumors. Beyond the immediate crime,

405
00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:49.320
the state presented evidence of Dowan's pattern of brutality to

406
00:38:49.559 --> 00:38:56.159
establish intent and motive. Carrie's friends and coworkers recounted her

407
00:38:56.280 --> 00:39:02.480
black eyes and bruises, establishing that Owen had consistently beaten

408
00:39:03.039 --> 00:39:09.480
and terrorized her. One particularly chilling piece of testimony came

409
00:39:09.639 --> 00:39:14.599
from Mitchell Epperson, a cellmate who was housed with Vincent

410
00:39:15.159 --> 00:39:18.960
in a county jail in late nineteen ninety six on

411
00:39:19.119 --> 00:39:26.079
an unrelated charge. Eperson recalled casual conversations he had had

412
00:39:26.159 --> 00:39:31.960
with Vincent about women. Vincent bragged in jail that quote

413
00:39:32.039 --> 00:39:35.519
you can't let them walk, You gotta make them pay,

414
00:39:36.440 --> 00:39:43.519
referring to disobedient girlfriends. Even more damning, Dowan allegedly admitted

415
00:39:43.639 --> 00:39:47.880
he would quote lie awake at night and think of

416
00:39:47.960 --> 00:39:54.159
a hundred different ways to kill carry before I did. This.

417
00:39:54.400 --> 00:39:59.760
Jaw dropping confession from Doan's own mouth, if true, painted

418
00:39:59.840 --> 00:40:03.679
him as a man who not only could have killed Carrie,

419
00:40:04.639 --> 00:40:10.639
but fantasized about it in advance. It went directly to

420
00:40:10.719 --> 00:40:19.239
the issue of premeditation and intent. Finally, Deborah Culberson, Carrie's mother,

421
00:40:19.760 --> 00:40:25.119
took the stand, providing a poignant bookend to the case.

422
00:40:26.320 --> 00:40:30.519
She confirmed the various stories Vincent had told her on

423
00:40:30.599 --> 00:40:36.199
August twenty nine when she searched for Carrie, highlighting how

424
00:40:36.239 --> 00:40:47.800
his lies had evolved over a single mourning Deborah also

425
00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:53.800
recounted a disturbing conversation she had had with Vincent before

426
00:40:54.159 --> 00:41:01.840
Carrie vanished, wherein he tried to downplay his abuse. Quote,

427
00:41:01.880 --> 00:41:05.320
I've always slapped her around. I never hit her with

428
00:41:05.400 --> 00:41:10.519
my fist. I just slapped her, he told Deborah, as

429
00:41:10.559 --> 00:41:16.400
if this somehow made it acceptable. The courtroom felt the

430
00:41:16.440 --> 00:41:21.000
weight of Deborah's testimony, the anguish of a mother who

431
00:41:21.079 --> 00:41:26.079
practically knew from day one that Vincent had harmed her daughter,

432
00:41:26.840 --> 00:41:31.719
but who still did not know where her child's body lay.

433
00:41:33.800 --> 00:41:39.199
Vincent Dowan's defense team, for their part, faced an uphill battle,

434
00:41:40.079 --> 00:41:44.320
with so many witnesses painting him as violent and with

435
00:41:44.440 --> 00:41:48.400
no solid alibi. His own accounts of the night were

436
00:41:48.800 --> 00:41:54.760
self contradictory. Their strategy was to so doubt about whether

437
00:41:54.840 --> 00:42:01.079
a murder had even occurred without a body, The defense argued,

438
00:42:01.679 --> 00:42:07.320
who could say Carrie wasn't still alive somewhere. They floated

439
00:42:07.360 --> 00:42:12.480
the idea that perhaps Carrie ran off, that maybe she'd

440
00:42:12.519 --> 00:42:17.039
gotten so fed up with life in Blanchester and with Vince,

441
00:42:17.679 --> 00:42:23.159
that she decided to disappear on her own. They pointed

442
00:42:23.199 --> 00:42:26.960
out that not a single drop of Carrie's blood had

443
00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:33.000
been found, nor any finger prints or DNA tying Vincent

444
00:42:33.159 --> 00:42:39.719
conclusively to a killing. They even produced a few witnesses,

445
00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:44.360
some locals who claimed to have seen a woman resembling

446
00:42:44.480 --> 00:42:49.199
Carrie in the days or weeks after August twenty eighth,

447
00:42:50.159 --> 00:42:54.599
though none of these sightings could be substantiated and were

448
00:42:54.760 --> 00:43:01.400
likely cases of mistaken identity or false hope. The defense

449
00:43:01.599 --> 00:43:06.360
also highlighted that no murder weapon had been recovered, and

450
00:43:06.440 --> 00:43:11.599
that some charges, like abuse of a corpse against Tracy Baker,

451
00:43:12.239 --> 00:43:18.159
had been dropped precisely because there was no corpse. Could

452
00:43:18.199 --> 00:43:22.679
it be? They urged the jury that Carrie was out

453
00:43:22.719 --> 00:43:30.639
there somewhere alive, but the prosecution had effectively preempted this argument.

454
00:43:31.559 --> 00:43:36.719
They had introduced Carrie's close friends, who testified that Carrie

455
00:43:36.840 --> 00:43:43.159
had not packed any belongings, taken any money, or contacted

456
00:43:43.239 --> 00:43:50.039
anyone not the behavior of a voluntary runaway. She also

457
00:43:50.239 --> 00:43:55.320
had upcoming plans, a new career path, and ap pending

458
00:43:55.400 --> 00:44:00.400
court case, and had given every indication she intended to

459
00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:05.800
stay in her community, not to flee. And then there

460
00:44:05.800 --> 00:44:11.199
were those powerful witnesses to violence that night. If Carrie

461
00:44:11.280 --> 00:44:16.519
had survived the beating, Brown witnessed, why had she not surfaced?

462
00:44:17.400 --> 00:44:23.440
Everything pointed not to a willing disappearance, but to a

463
00:44:23.559 --> 00:44:30.119
violent end. After two weeks of testimony, the case went

464
00:44:30.199 --> 00:44:34.840
to the jury. The nation waited. The media had taken

465
00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:39.239
keen interest, since trials without a body were at the

466
00:44:39.360 --> 00:44:46.440
time relatively rare and risky for prosecutors. Indeed, the Culberson

467
00:44:46.559 --> 00:44:50.480
case would go on to be featured on national true

468
00:44:50.559 --> 00:44:56.800
crime shows like American Justice and Dateline, precisely because of

469
00:44:56.880 --> 00:45:02.880
the no body aspect. The story had all the elements

470
00:45:02.920 --> 00:45:08.199
of a made for TV mystery, except this was painfully

471
00:45:08.320 --> 00:45:14.360
real for those involved. As one local reporter later noted,

472
00:45:14.840 --> 00:45:20.960
the trial drew national attention because Dowan was convicted despite

473
00:45:21.239 --> 00:45:27.199
the absence of a body, something many jurors find difficult

474
00:45:27.920 --> 00:45:34.320
to do. In the deliberation room, twelve jurors, six men

475
00:45:34.440 --> 00:45:40.440
and six women, agonized over the evidence for four days.

476
00:45:41.239 --> 00:45:47.719
On August seventh, nineteen ninety seven, they returned with a verdict.

477
00:45:49.039 --> 00:45:56.679
They found Vincent Dowan guilty of aggravated murder, specifically the

478
00:45:56.719 --> 00:46:01.480
court alleging that he killed Carrie in the commission of

479
00:46:01.599 --> 00:46:06.360
kidnapping her, and guilty of three counts of kidnapping related

480
00:46:06.400 --> 00:46:11.920
to the various times he'd abducted or restrained her. He

481
00:46:12.079 --> 00:46:15.639
was actually acquitted on a second murder count, which had

482
00:46:15.639 --> 00:46:22.480
alleged prior calculation and design, essentially premeditation, and on one

483
00:46:22.519 --> 00:46:28.360
additional kidnapping count. The jury seemed to conclude that while

484
00:46:28.440 --> 00:46:31.760
he may not have planned out the murder in advance,

485
00:46:32.920 --> 00:46:40.039
he did intentionally kill her during an abduction. With those convictions,

486
00:46:40.599 --> 00:46:46.519
the maximum sentence was on the table. Dowan faced the

487
00:46:46.559 --> 00:46:53.079
death penalty. A separate sentencing phase followed in November of

488
00:46:53.159 --> 00:46:59.639
nineteen ninety seven. After hearing further arguments, the jury spared

489
00:46:59.719 --> 00:47:04.519
Vince Saint Owan's life by recommending a sentence of life

490
00:47:04.519 --> 00:47:11.320
in prison without the possibility of parole, rather than execution.

491
00:47:12.519 --> 00:47:17.719
The judge imposed that life sentence. Vincent Dowan, at twenty

492
00:47:17.880 --> 00:47:23.679
five years old, was led away in shackles, destined to

493
00:47:23.760 --> 00:47:29.559
spend the rest of his days behind bars. As he

494
00:47:29.679 --> 00:47:35.519
was sentenced, he remained defiant, continuing to proclaim his innocence,

495
00:47:36.280 --> 00:47:41.800
a claim he maintains to this day. But the evidence

496
00:47:41.880 --> 00:47:46.559
and verdict spoke otherwise. In the eyes of the law,

497
00:47:47.159 --> 00:47:52.159
Vincent Dowan had murdered Carrie Culberson, even if he had

498
00:47:52.199 --> 00:47:57.679
gone to extreme lengths to ensure that her body would

499
00:47:57.719 --> 00:48:04.199
never be found. For Carrie's family and friends, the verdict

500
00:48:04.360 --> 00:48:09.599
was a moment of bitter sweet justice in that courtroom,

501
00:48:10.119 --> 00:48:16.119
justice was served, a dangerous man was held accountable, Yet

502
00:48:16.239 --> 00:48:21.119
there was no reunion with Carrie, no body to lay

503
00:48:21.159 --> 00:48:26.679
to rest. Debbie Culberson and her family walked out, knowing

504
00:48:27.119 --> 00:48:33.199
Dowan would never hurt anyone again, but also knowing that

505
00:48:33.320 --> 00:48:38.159
their own agonizing quest to find Carrie was not over.

506
00:48:45.199 --> 00:48:49.639
Debbie said later, quote, we felt relief that he was

507
00:48:49.679 --> 00:48:57.119
put away, but complete peace. That'll never happen as long

508
00:48:57.159 --> 00:49:03.480
as Carrie remained missing. The case was far from closed.

509
00:49:05.320 --> 00:49:11.039
The aftermath of the trial sent shockwaves through Blanchester and beyond.

510
00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:16.679
In the close knit town, people took sides during the ordeal.

511
00:49:17.840 --> 00:49:22.239
Some couldn't believe a local boy like Vincent could commit

512
00:49:22.800 --> 00:49:28.079
such an atrocity. While others rallied behind the Culberson family

513
00:49:28.280 --> 00:49:36.719
search for truth, longtime friendships frayed, the community became bitterly divided.

514
00:49:37.519 --> 00:49:42.800
Quote the wounds of Carrie's disappearance divided the town at

515
00:49:42.840 --> 00:49:49.000
the time and still run deep today. One resident observed

516
00:49:49.440 --> 00:49:54.000
eight years later, the village was split over those who

517
00:49:54.039 --> 00:49:59.719
supported the Culbersons and those who supported Dowan. She said,

518
00:50:00.840 --> 00:50:05.559
this town hasn't given Carrie's family much respect. They have

519
00:50:05.639 --> 00:50:11.440
been treated unfairly. It will always be that way. Everybody

520
00:50:11.559 --> 00:50:17.079
knows everybody's business. It divided the town and I don't

521
00:50:17.119 --> 00:50:23.039
think it will be fixed. Even after the conviction, rumors

522
00:50:23.039 --> 00:50:29.360
and suspicions lingered in Blanchester's gossip mills. A few stubborn

523
00:50:29.440 --> 00:50:34.039
holdouts whispered that Carrie might have run off, or that

524
00:50:34.199 --> 00:50:39.960
Vincent was framed, But as the years went on, most

525
00:50:40.119 --> 00:50:45.519
came to accept the obvious. A horrific crime had occurred

526
00:50:45.840 --> 00:50:50.800
in their midst, and it had been badly mishandled by

527
00:50:50.920 --> 00:50:57.199
those sworn to protect the community. Indeed, one of the

528
00:50:57.239 --> 00:51:02.440
most consequential fallouts from Carrie case was the harsh light

529
00:51:02.599 --> 00:51:07.039
it shone on law enforcement's failure to protect a domestic

530
00:51:07.159 --> 00:51:14.559
violence victim, Debbie Culberson, Roger Coulberson, and their surviving daughter, Christina,

531
00:51:15.119 --> 00:51:19.639
were not content to let Blanchester's officials off the hook.

532
00:51:20.880 --> 00:51:25.559
In nineteen ninety seven, while the criminal case preceded, the

533
00:51:25.639 --> 00:51:31.239
Culbersons took the extraordinary step of filing a civil lawsuit

534
00:51:31.800 --> 00:51:37.639
against the Village of Blanchester, its police department, police Chief

535
00:51:37.800 --> 00:51:43.639
Richard Payton, and members of the Dowan family. They alleged

536
00:51:43.679 --> 00:51:50.880
a wrongful death and a conspiracy. Essentially that Carrie died

537
00:51:51.119 --> 00:51:56.559
not only because of Vincent's actions, but also because the

538
00:51:56.599 --> 00:52:02.960
authorities willfully failed to protect her and then aided in

539
00:52:03.079 --> 00:52:08.039
covering up the crime. It was a bold and emotionally

540
00:52:08.199 --> 00:52:13.320
charged move born out of the family's frustration with how

541
00:52:13.360 --> 00:52:20.239
events had unfolded. Their claims were striking. The lawsuit contended

542
00:52:20.280 --> 00:52:24.360
that Chief Peyton knew Carrie was in danger, he was

543
00:52:24.440 --> 00:52:29.599
aware of Vince's prior violence. In fact, as later came

544
00:52:29.639 --> 00:52:34.079
out in court, Peyton had been explicitly told about multiple

545
00:52:34.079 --> 00:52:41.159
domestic violence incidents involving Carrie, and yet did nothing meaningful

546
00:52:41.639 --> 00:52:47.760
to intervene. Worse, after her disappearance, he behaved like en

547
00:52:48.880 --> 00:52:53.280
accessory after the fact, as one federal judge put it

548
00:52:54.000 --> 00:52:58.440
by tipping off the suspect's family and failure to secure

549
00:52:58.559 --> 00:53:03.760
the crime scene. In one blistering court order, U. S.

550
00:53:03.800 --> 00:53:10.039
District Judge s Arthur Spiegel wrote that Peyton had violated

551
00:53:10.119 --> 00:53:14.800
his duty as the chief law enforcement officer and may

552
00:53:14.840 --> 00:53:20.119
have been quote explicitly or implicitly involved in the cover

553
00:53:20.280 --> 00:53:26.079
up of Carrie's murder and disposal of her body. The

554
00:53:26.119 --> 00:53:32.280
family's attorney, Jennifer Branch, argued that Blanchester's officials had learned

555
00:53:32.360 --> 00:53:37.960
nothing from the tragedy. Quote from the citizen's point of view,

556
00:53:38.519 --> 00:53:43.440
the police allowed their neighbour to be murdered, they failed

557
00:53:43.760 --> 00:53:48.519
to protect her. Branch said, what the village learned from

558
00:53:48.519 --> 00:53:52.920
this incident was how to protect their police chief, not

559
00:53:53.679 --> 00:53:58.239
how to protect their citizens. The village did not enforce

560
00:53:58.320 --> 00:54:04.679
its domestic violence law, and unfortunately that has not changed.

561
00:54:06.000 --> 00:54:10.599
It was a stark indictment of the entire system that

562
00:54:10.679 --> 00:54:16.559
had let carry down. The civil case dragged on for

563
00:54:16.679 --> 00:54:22.880
years through legal twists and turns. At one point, Blanchester

564
00:54:23.079 --> 00:54:26.440
tried to get it thrown out, but parts of the

565
00:54:26.519 --> 00:54:32.199
lawsuit were allowed to proceed. The culbersins were determined not

566
00:54:32.559 --> 00:54:37.719
just to recover damages for their pain, but to force

567
00:54:37.880 --> 00:54:42.480
changes so that no other family in their town would

568
00:54:42.599 --> 00:54:48.519
endure what they did. By two thousand and one, five

569
00:54:48.639 --> 00:54:53.760
years after Carrie's death, the village decided to settle and

570
00:54:53.880 --> 00:54:58.320
avoid a federal trial that would air all of its

571
00:54:58.440 --> 00:55:02.920
dirty laundering. In a settlement reached in January of two

572
00:55:02.960 --> 00:55:07.360
thousand one, the village of Blanchester agreed to pay the

573
00:55:07.400 --> 00:55:13.599
Culberson family two million dollars. More importantly to the family,

574
00:55:14.320 --> 00:55:19.199
the village also pledged to institute reforms. They promised to

575
00:55:19.400 --> 00:55:24.199
establish a memorial to domestic violence victims in Carey's name,

576
00:55:24.920 --> 00:55:29.880
and to ensure that all law enforcement officers receive further

577
00:55:30.079 --> 00:55:37.440
training in handling domestic violence cases. In effect, Blanchester's authorities

578
00:55:37.840 --> 00:55:43.199
tacitly acknowledged that they had failed carry and that change

579
00:55:44.079 --> 00:55:50.519
was indeed needed. As part of the settlement's non monetary terms,

580
00:55:51.159 --> 00:55:55.920
Blanchester unveiled plans for a permanent memorial to carry at

581
00:55:55.920 --> 00:55:59.880
the municipal building, a place where the community could rem

582
00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:03.320
remember her and where her mother could find a small

583
00:56:03.400 --> 00:56:14.960
measure of peace. On a rainy day in April of

584
00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:20.320
two thousand and four, townspeople gathered in drizzle to dedicate

585
00:56:20.519 --> 00:56:24.480
that memorial at the front lawn of the village hall,

586
00:56:25.199 --> 00:56:28.920
they placed a large stone engraved with an image of

587
00:56:29.000 --> 00:56:34.159
angels and the words dedicated to the life of Clarissa

588
00:56:34.239 --> 00:56:39.960
Anne Carrie Culberson. Next to it, a five foot tall

589
00:56:40.039 --> 00:56:45.239
bronze statue was installed, depicting a young woman in a

590
00:56:45.320 --> 00:56:51.320
flowing dress. At the statue's base, the word hope is

591
00:56:51.360 --> 00:56:57.519
inscribed in bold letters, a message as much for the

592
00:56:57.639 --> 00:57:03.159
future as for the past. Surrounding it are large rocks,

593
00:57:03.880 --> 00:57:13.480
each carved with values like faith, awareness, courage, justice, respect,

594
00:57:13.880 --> 00:57:21.519
love and support. It is, in essence, a monument not

595
00:57:21.599 --> 00:57:26.880
only to carry but to all victims of domestic violence,

596
00:57:27.719 --> 00:57:33.679
a physical reminder that such tragedies must not be allowed

597
00:57:34.480 --> 00:57:42.480
to happen again. For Debbie Culberson, the memorial was deeply meaningful,

598
00:57:42.519 --> 00:57:48.760
but also bitter sweet. Quote she doesn't have any closure,

599
00:57:49.480 --> 00:57:53.679
a friend of Debbie said at the dedication, she doesn't

600
00:57:53.760 --> 00:57:58.480
have anywhere to go. We go to the cemetery. Where

601
00:57:58.480 --> 00:58:04.639
does she go? The memorial became that place, a surrogate

602
00:58:04.760 --> 00:58:08.360
grave where a mother could go to grieve the daughter

603
00:58:09.320 --> 00:58:13.480
that she couldn't bury. On the eve of the dedication,

604
00:58:14.400 --> 00:58:19.360
Mayor Tom White observed Debbi at the site, tenderly arranging

605
00:58:19.440 --> 00:58:25.360
those engraved stones around the statue, quote, I would like

606
00:58:25.440 --> 00:58:29.960
to see something found that can give Debbie closure. The

607
00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:33.880
mayor admitted, it would be closure for the town too.

608
00:58:34.960 --> 00:58:38.480
There are a few people out there that maybe don't

609
00:58:38.519 --> 00:58:43.159
believe she's dead. They never found a body. It would

610
00:58:43.159 --> 00:58:49.679
be closure for everyone. The memorial therefore stood as a

611
00:58:49.760 --> 00:58:57.360
symbol for both remembrance and the unresolved nature of the loss. Meanwhile,

612
00:58:57.840 --> 00:59:04.480
Chief Peyton faced his own reckoning, albeit a mild one.

613
00:59:04.559 --> 00:59:09.840
He was charged in state court with multiple felonies, including

614
00:59:09.920 --> 00:59:16.840
obstruction of justice, for his actions during the investigation. In

615
00:59:16.920 --> 00:59:22.320
a controversial plea deal, those were reduced to misdemeanor dereliction

616
00:59:22.480 --> 00:59:28.159
of duty charges, to which Peyton pleaded no contest. He

617
00:59:28.280 --> 00:59:32.199
was convicted and given a slap on the wrist, a

618
00:59:32.280 --> 00:59:39.920
short suspended jail sentence, a fine, and probation. Outraged residents

619
00:59:40.119 --> 00:59:45.159
watched as Peyton was allowed to quietly retire from the

620
00:59:45.159 --> 00:59:51.199
police force. In fact, as Deborah Culberson later testified to Congress,

621
00:59:51.920 --> 00:59:55.920
Peyton was even granted a year's back pay and his

622
00:59:56.079 --> 01:00:02.679
accumulated sickly roughly eighty six thousand dollars to pad his pension,

623
01:00:03.840 --> 01:00:10.159
essentially rewarding him as he exited in disgrace to Carrie's family,

624
01:00:10.320 --> 01:00:14.519
This was an insult added to injury that the man

625
01:00:14.599 --> 01:00:18.480
they believed helped cover up her murder got to ride

626
01:00:18.559 --> 01:00:23.559
off into the sunset with benefits. But at least he

627
01:00:23.679 --> 01:00:29.679
was no longer wearing a badge. If any good could

628
01:00:29.760 --> 01:00:33.400
come out of such a nightmare, it was that Carrie's

629
01:00:33.480 --> 01:00:41.079
case sparked change. Debbie Culberson transformed her grief into activism.

630
01:00:41.960 --> 01:00:45.360
She became a leading voice on the Clinton County Domestic

631
01:00:45.440 --> 01:00:49.480
Violence Task Force, which was formed around the time of

632
01:00:49.559 --> 01:00:55.119
Carrie's disappearance. Debbie worked with social workers and law enforcement

633
01:00:55.559 --> 01:01:01.199
on developing better protocols and training for handling domestic violence calls.

634
01:01:01.840 --> 01:01:06.519
Quote Debi helped to draw up the protocol and police training,

635
01:01:07.159 --> 01:01:11.559
said one task force member, underscoring how the woman who

636
01:01:11.559 --> 01:01:16.840
had lost her daughter was determined to save others. This

637
01:01:17.119 --> 01:01:20.079
was part of a broader trend in the late nineteen

638
01:01:20.199 --> 01:01:25.920
nineties and early two thousands, communities across America were pushing

639
01:01:25.960 --> 01:01:32.320
police and courts to take domestic violence more seriously. In

640
01:01:32.440 --> 01:01:38.039
Ohio and many other states, laws and policies were strengthened.

641
01:01:38.719 --> 01:01:45.239
For example, many jurisdictions adopted mandatory arrest policies for domestic

642
01:01:45.320 --> 01:01:52.159
violence calls and better enforcement of restraining orders. Nationally, experts

643
01:01:52.239 --> 01:01:57.800
noted huge changes in criminal justice procedures for domestic violence

644
01:01:58.480 --> 01:02:03.360
during that era, though Carrie's case showed how those changes

645
01:02:03.800 --> 01:02:09.800
hadn't permeated everywhere. The lawsuit the Culbersons brought was one

646
01:02:09.840 --> 01:02:15.519
of several groundbreaking cases seeking to hold law enforcement accountable

647
01:02:16.159 --> 01:02:22.679
for failing victims of abuse. The message was clear, ignoring

648
01:02:22.760 --> 01:02:28.800
domestic violence has consequences, and police have a duty to

649
01:02:28.960 --> 01:02:35.280
protect the vulnerable, not to look the other way. The

650
01:02:35.360 --> 01:02:39.840
legal precedent set by Carrie's case also had a profound

651
01:02:39.920 --> 01:02:45.079
implication in criminal law. It proved that a no body

652
01:02:45.159 --> 01:02:52.280
homicide case could succeed. Historically, prosecutors were wary of bringing

653
01:02:52.400 --> 01:02:57.440
murder charges without a corpse, subscribing to the old adage

654
01:02:58.039 --> 01:03:04.159
no body, no murder. But Kerrey's trial became a textbook

655
01:03:04.199 --> 01:03:09.559
example that if the circumstantial evidence is strong enough, a

656
01:03:09.679 --> 01:03:14.480
jury can be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt of murder

657
01:03:15.159 --> 01:03:21.039
even without physical remains. The conviction of Vincent Dowan in

658
01:03:21.159 --> 01:03:26.199
nineteen ninety seven joined a growing list of cases that

659
01:03:26.280 --> 01:03:33.719
emboldened prosecutors nationwide. It demonstrated that advances in forensic science,

660
01:03:34.320 --> 01:03:41.079
eyewitness testimony, and defendant behavior analysis could together establish the

661
01:03:41.159 --> 01:03:46.519
corpus delicti, or proof of a crime without the victim's body.

662
01:03:48.159 --> 01:03:52.440
This case has since been cited in law enforcement trainings

663
01:03:52.719 --> 01:03:58.199
and by other prosecutors to justify pursuing charges in similar

664
01:03:58.719 --> 01:04:03.840
heartbreaking scenario where a body is missing but evidence of

665
01:04:03.920 --> 01:04:18.639
foul play is overwhelming. Ohio in particular took note the

666
01:04:18.719 --> 01:04:24.519
successful prosecution signaled to would be killers that they cannot

667
01:04:24.559 --> 01:04:29.440
count on a missing body to escape justice. As one

668
01:04:29.599 --> 01:04:34.559
legal commentator put it, quote, the body and the questions

669
01:04:34.599 --> 01:04:39.159
surrounding Carrie's murder have yet to be laid to rest.

670
01:04:40.639 --> 01:04:45.679
But even so, the courts delivered justice to Carrie's killer.

671
01:04:46.599 --> 01:04:52.000
Ohio thus joined the ranks of jurisdictions proving that no

672
01:04:52.159 --> 01:04:58.679
body is no barrier to conviction. Yet, for all these

673
01:04:58.840 --> 01:05:03.840
legal and so social impacts, the personal fallout for Carrie's

674
01:05:03.880 --> 01:05:10.039
loved ones was immeasurable. They had won some justice, yes,

675
01:05:11.039 --> 01:05:16.719
but the emptiness of loss remained. Carrie's father, Roger and

676
01:05:16.920 --> 01:05:22.760
sister Christina had to somehow continue living carrying the memory

677
01:05:22.840 --> 01:05:27.400
of a daughter and sister who never got to fulfill

678
01:05:28.000 --> 01:05:35.360
her dreams. Debbie Culberson, in addition to championing domestic violence reform,

679
01:05:36.119 --> 01:05:42.639
carried the torch for keeping Carrie's memory alive. In every interview,

680
01:05:43.199 --> 01:05:49.400
every vigil, every birthday that passed, she reminded the world

681
01:05:49.440 --> 01:05:53.880
that her daughter was more than just a crime victim.

682
01:05:54.800 --> 01:05:58.440
She was a beloved young woman who deserved to be

683
01:05:58.679 --> 01:06:04.559
found and laid to rest. Debbie would attend support groups

684
01:06:04.599 --> 01:06:08.800
for families of the missing and speak out for legislation

685
01:06:09.400 --> 01:06:16.000
to aid in searching for unidentified remains. The Culberson families

686
01:06:16.079 --> 01:06:21.199
fight became not only about how Carrie died, but also

687
01:06:22.000 --> 01:06:29.519
where she was. Where is Carrie Culberson? That question has

688
01:06:29.599 --> 01:06:35.920
haunted everyone involved in this case since day one. Carrie's

689
01:06:35.960 --> 01:06:40.360
body has never been found, and neither has her Red

690
01:06:40.519 --> 01:06:45.840
Honda CRX. The search for both became one of the

691
01:06:45.840 --> 01:06:52.800
most extensive and frustrating quests in Ohio history, full of

692
01:06:52.880 --> 01:06:59.199
false leads, fruitless digs, and whispered rumors that only compounded

693
01:06:59.679 --> 01:07:04.840
the fan Emily's anguish. In the immediate aftermath of Vincent

694
01:07:04.920 --> 01:07:10.360
Dowan's conviction, authorities hoped that one of the co conspirators,

695
01:07:10.920 --> 01:07:16.920
perhaps Tracy Baker, might reveal the body's location in exchange

696
01:07:16.960 --> 01:07:24.039
for leniency, but no such luck. Tracy, convicted of helping

697
01:07:24.159 --> 01:07:29.920
dispose of evidence, kept his silence, serving his prison term

698
01:07:30.159 --> 01:07:33.800
without ever giving up the secret of what they did

699
01:07:33.880 --> 01:07:40.719
with Carrie after that bloody night. Vincent Dowan, for his part,

700
01:07:41.199 --> 01:07:45.360
invoked his Fifth Amendment rights during the trial on any

701
01:07:45.480 --> 01:07:51.280
questions about the whereabouts of Carrie's remains, and he has

702
01:07:51.400 --> 01:07:57.480
steadfastly refused to confess or cooperate in any recovery effort

703
01:07:58.079 --> 01:08:04.880
in all the years since. Without the perpetrator's cooperation, the

704
01:08:04.920 --> 01:08:09.960
task fell to law enforcement and Carrie's family to scour

705
01:08:10.079 --> 01:08:14.960
the region for any trace of her. The initial focal

706
01:08:15.039 --> 01:08:20.159
point was, of course, the Dowan family pond, which had

707
01:08:20.279 --> 01:08:25.960
yielded only footprints. Divers and search teams combed it again

708
01:08:26.760 --> 01:08:33.399
to no avail. Investigators also searched the surrounding property. They

709
01:08:33.439 --> 01:08:38.640
looked in wells, ditches, woodlands, and junked cars on the

710
01:08:38.680 --> 01:08:43.960
Dowan and Baker properties. There was a nagging fear that

711
01:08:44.039 --> 01:08:48.159
perhaps Carrie's body had been put through a car crusher

712
01:08:48.800 --> 01:08:54.920
or burned in a secret makeshift grave, eliminating obvious evidence.

713
01:08:56.960 --> 01:09:01.119
The lack of blood traces in Vincent's house, it was

714
01:09:01.560 --> 01:09:07.680
surprisingly clean when police first searched it days later, suggested

715
01:09:07.760 --> 01:09:13.159
the crime might have occurred outside, lending credence to the theory

716
01:09:13.199 --> 01:09:18.600
of the pond or elsewhere as the primary scene. But

717
01:09:18.720 --> 01:09:23.560
it also meant there were no forensic breadcrumbs to follow.

718
01:09:25.239 --> 01:09:31.359
As weeks turned to months, leeds grew scarce. Carrie's disappearance

719
01:09:31.520 --> 01:09:38.000
took on an almost urban legend quality. In Blanchester. Children

720
01:09:38.039 --> 01:09:42.000
on school buses would pass by the junkyard and whisper

721
01:09:42.119 --> 01:09:47.239
about that lion rumor, an outrageous tale that Carrie's body

722
01:09:47.640 --> 01:09:51.880
had been thrown to an exotic pet lion supposedly kept

723
01:09:51.920 --> 01:09:56.960
on the property. Investigators never found any evidence of such

724
01:09:57.000 --> 01:10:00.840
a creature. It seemed to be the stuff of small

725
01:10:00.880 --> 01:10:06.920
town myth, a manifestation of the community's darkest fears. Other

726
01:10:07.079 --> 01:10:11.399
rumors suggested her car had been compacted, or that she

727
01:10:11.600 --> 01:10:16.760
was buried under a concrete slab somewhere. Each new tip

728
01:10:17.119 --> 01:10:21.199
that came in was like a tantalizing spark of hope

729
01:10:21.760 --> 01:10:27.279
for Debbie and her search volunteers, but so many led

730
01:10:27.960 --> 01:10:34.720
to dead ends. Nonetheless, Debbie Culberson never stopped searching. She

731
01:10:35.000 --> 01:10:42.720
organized highly publicized searches periodically, sometimes enlisting volunteers by the dozens.

732
01:10:43.920 --> 01:10:49.399
They trudged through fields and forests, turning over tire dumps,

733
01:10:49.439 --> 01:10:54.239
and peering into old wells. With each search that ended

734
01:10:54.239 --> 01:11:01.279
in frustration, Debbie's resolve only grew. Quote. We have been

735
01:11:01.359 --> 01:11:05.800
cheated out of a proper grave, a proper funeral, all

736
01:11:05.880 --> 01:11:11.039
the things people need to grieve, she said, articulating the

737
01:11:11.159 --> 01:11:17.000
cruel limbo in which her family was stuck. Indeed, not

738
01:11:17.279 --> 01:11:21.359
knowing where your loved one's body lies is its own

739
01:11:21.560 --> 01:11:27.920
special kind of torment. It means no closure, no final

740
01:11:28.000 --> 01:11:32.760
good bye. One of the most dramatic search efforts came

741
01:11:32.840 --> 01:11:36.960
in spring of two thousand and four, nearly eight years

742
01:11:37.039 --> 01:11:43.239
after Carrie vanished. Investigators got a tip pointing to a

743
01:11:43.279 --> 01:11:48.119
remote barn on a farm property in Brown County, a

744
01:11:48.199 --> 01:11:53.840
county adjacent to Clinton. A man named Jared Messer, who

745
01:11:53.840 --> 01:11:57.479
had once lived at that property and had ties to

746
01:11:58.199 --> 01:12:05.000
criminal elements, was mentioned. Acting on this lead, authorities deployed

747
01:12:05.079 --> 01:12:10.720
cadaver dogs to the barn, and one dog signaled positively

748
01:12:11.439 --> 01:12:25.880
on the concrete floor. Excitement and dread spiked. Could this

749
01:12:26.600 --> 01:12:32.760
finally be it? The Clinton, Brown and Claremont County Sheriff's offices,

750
01:12:33.399 --> 01:12:38.399
along with the FBI and Ohio state authorities, swarmed the

751
01:12:38.520 --> 01:12:44.000
site with back hoes and forensic experts. On April thirtieth,

752
01:12:44.279 --> 01:12:49.479
two thousand and four, crews began the arduous task of

753
01:12:49.560 --> 01:12:54.920
breaking up the barns concrete slab and digging beneath it.

754
01:12:56.239 --> 01:12:59.960
Debbie Culberson got a phone call that day while she

755
01:13:00.279 --> 01:13:06.239
was literally preparing the memorial dedication ceremony for Carrie. She

756
01:13:06.399 --> 01:13:11.840
dropped everything and raced to the scene. For the next

757
01:13:12.039 --> 01:13:18.479
thirteen days through Mother's Day, Debbie and Christina Culberson camped

758
01:13:18.479 --> 01:13:23.079
out at the site, standing vigil from morning till night.

759
01:13:23.760 --> 01:13:30.960
As investigators excavated the barn inch by inch, hope hung

760
01:13:31.079 --> 01:13:36.760
in the air. The media reported on the dig constantly. Quote,

761
01:13:37.159 --> 01:13:42.039
I'm just doing what I do best, just waiting, Debbie

762
01:13:42.079 --> 01:13:46.600
said as she stood in the rain watching heavy machinery

763
01:13:47.119 --> 01:13:51.840
claw at the earth. If it turns out to be Carrie,

764
01:13:52.000 --> 01:13:56.399
then that's what we want. But if it isn't, we'll

765
01:13:56.399 --> 01:14:03.720
wait some more. Those words appeared Debbie's endurance, an endless

766
01:14:04.319 --> 01:14:10.199
patient weight for the truth. When the Brown County Barn

767
01:14:10.399 --> 01:14:18.479
dig finally concluded, the result was another heartbreaking disappointment. They

768
01:14:18.560 --> 01:14:24.640
found nothing related to carry, no remains, no scraps of clothing,

769
01:14:25.439 --> 01:14:31.159
no car parts. The tip had been well intentioned, but

770
01:14:31.319 --> 01:14:37.199
ultimately false, or worse, perhaps even a cruel prank or

771
01:14:37.920 --> 01:14:44.039
a jailhouse rumor with no basis. The investigators packed up

772
01:14:44.079 --> 01:14:50.000
their gear and Debbie went home with empty hands yet again.

773
01:14:51.359 --> 01:14:55.039
Quote the feelings are just as strong as they were

774
01:14:55.039 --> 01:15:02.000
eight years ago, she reflected, emotional exhaustion in her voice.

775
01:15:02.039 --> 01:15:08.039
Over the years, authorities have chased down other leads. At times,

776
01:15:08.520 --> 01:15:13.640
divers have searched nearby lakes and rivers, and the FBI

777
01:15:14.039 --> 01:15:18.600
reportedly checked out auto salvage yards for any sign of

778
01:15:18.720 --> 01:15:23.840
Carrie's Honda. Psychics reached out to the family with visions,

779
01:15:24.760 --> 01:15:30.439
none that led anywhere. Verifiable cadaver dogs have been taken

780
01:15:30.520 --> 01:15:35.720
out to various points of interest multiple times, a testament

781
01:15:35.800 --> 01:15:42.760
to law enforcements continued efforts. Anonymous letters or deathbed confessions

782
01:15:43.159 --> 01:15:49.319
have surfaced, occasionally hinting at secret burial sites, but none

783
01:15:49.560 --> 01:15:55.000
have panned out. Even two decades on. Police said they

784
01:15:55.079 --> 01:16:00.560
still receive the occasional tip quote tips still come in.

785
01:16:01.279 --> 01:16:05.560
We still hope to find her, a sheriff's investigator said

786
01:16:06.079 --> 01:16:11.680
in twoenty and sixteen, reaffirming that the case, while cold,

787
01:16:12.560 --> 01:16:17.199
is not closed. The absence of a body has also

788
01:16:17.359 --> 01:16:23.199
had many legal reverberations. For instance, one charge that Tracy

789
01:16:23.279 --> 01:16:28.880
Baker initially faced was gross abuse of a corpse. He

790
01:16:29.000 --> 01:16:33.640
was acquitted on that count, not necessarily because he didn't

791
01:16:33.680 --> 01:16:38.399
do it, but because prosecutors had no corpse to prove it.

792
01:16:38.439 --> 01:16:45.399
With that strange quirk underscored a broader issue. Without a body,

793
01:16:46.119 --> 01:16:52.600
certain truths remain legally unprovable. It also meant that Carrie

794
01:16:52.880 --> 01:16:58.119
could not be declared legally dead for some time. In

795
01:16:58.239 --> 01:17:03.520
nineteen ninety eight, about two years after she disappeared, a

796
01:17:03.640 --> 01:17:11.439
court declared Carrie Anne Culberson legally deceased, allowing her family

797
01:17:11.560 --> 01:17:15.960
to obtain a death certificate. But for Debbie and her

798
01:17:16.000 --> 01:17:21.319
loved ones, a piece of paper could never substitute for

799
01:17:21.399 --> 01:17:27.279
physical closure. The community tried to help the Culberson's cope

800
01:17:27.800 --> 01:17:31.319
with that lack of closure in any way they could.

801
01:17:32.479 --> 01:17:35.359
We've seen how the memorial gives them a place to

802
01:17:35.439 --> 01:17:40.840
focus their grief on milestones such as Carrie's birthday January

803
01:17:40.880 --> 01:17:46.800
thirty first, or the anniversary of her disappearance, friends still

804
01:17:46.920 --> 01:17:52.159
gather sometimes at the memorial rock or at the Culberson

805
01:17:52.279 --> 01:17:58.720
home to pray and remember Carrie. They share stories about

806
01:17:58.720 --> 01:18:03.640
her laughter, her athletic exploits, and her sense of humor.

807
01:18:04.600 --> 01:18:08.600
They imagine what she would be like if she were here,

808
01:18:09.199 --> 01:18:13.960
approaching the age of fifty quote. I wonder how many

809
01:18:14.079 --> 01:18:18.520
kids she might have, where she might be in her life,

810
01:18:18.560 --> 01:18:23.520
what she might look like now, mused her close friend Jamie,

811
01:18:24.239 --> 01:18:29.119
aching with the knowledge that those possibilities were stolen away

812
01:18:30.720 --> 01:18:34.399
for the people who loved her. Carrie is frozen in

813
01:18:34.520 --> 01:18:41.520
time at twenty two, forever young, forever out of reach.

814
01:18:43.439 --> 01:18:48.199
One particularly poignant symbol of hope that endures in Blanchester

815
01:18:48.760 --> 01:18:52.560
is found in the lobby of the police station. There,

816
01:18:53.199 --> 01:18:58.000
a plaque with Carrie's picture hangs on the wall, with

817
01:18:58.079 --> 01:19:04.319
a promise implicit in its presence it will remain until

818
01:19:04.439 --> 01:19:10.640
Carrie is found. Her youthful face smiles out at the

819
01:19:10.720 --> 01:19:17.760
officers each day, silently urging them not to forget. It's

820
01:19:17.800 --> 01:19:22.760
as if Carrie herself is waiting there, asking for the

821
01:19:22.880 --> 01:19:30.279
truth to finally be uncovered. The plaque's very existence acknowledges

822
01:19:30.880 --> 01:19:36.279
a harsh reality that her body and the full story

823
01:19:36.319 --> 01:19:41.960
of her death are still missing, while also serving as

824
01:19:42.000 --> 01:19:47.159
a constant goad to those in power do not give

825
01:19:47.279 --> 01:19:52.640
up until she is home. The lack of a body

826
01:19:52.840 --> 01:19:57.239
has in some ways kept the mystery alive in the

827
01:19:57.279 --> 01:20:02.159
public imagination. Over the year years, Carrie's story has been

828
01:20:02.199 --> 01:20:07.520
featured on numerous true crime television programs and podcasts like this,

829
01:20:08.479 --> 01:20:13.720
often under titles like Where Is Carrie or no Body,

830
01:20:14.199 --> 01:20:21.560
No Justice. But unlike some other unsolved mysteries, in Carrie's case,

831
01:20:22.359 --> 01:20:28.479
justice was partially achieved, her killer sits in prison, Yet

832
01:20:28.720 --> 01:20:34.399
the mystery persists. A case that is at once resolved

833
01:20:34.800 --> 01:20:40.680
and unresolved. Solved in the courtroom, but unsolved in the

834
01:20:41.399 --> 01:20:48.039
physical sense. This duality is haunting. There is no grave

835
01:20:48.199 --> 01:20:51.880
for family and friends to visit, no way to ensure

836
01:20:52.079 --> 01:20:57.479
Carrie's remains are treated with dignity and respect. Debbie once

837
01:20:57.680 --> 01:21:03.680
candidly expressed her anguish quote, I have no place to

838
01:21:03.720 --> 01:21:07.000
go to talk to Carrie. I don't know if she's

839
01:21:07.079 --> 01:21:10.960
laying in a field or under concrete or in water.

840
01:21:12.439 --> 01:21:16.079
I just want to bring her home and lay her

841
01:21:16.159 --> 01:21:23.239
to rest. In those words lies the simple, heartbreaking wish

842
01:21:24.119 --> 01:21:29.560
that has fueled the culber sins for decades to find

843
01:21:29.680 --> 01:21:43.920
Carrie and to finally say goodbye. As of today, nearly

844
01:21:44.039 --> 01:21:48.640
twenty nine years have passed since that fateful August night.

845
01:21:49.520 --> 01:21:52.920
It is now a given that Vincent Dowan will spend

846
01:21:52.960 --> 01:21:58.039
the rest of his life in prison. Barring some unforeseen

847
01:21:58.279 --> 01:22:04.560
legal reversal. He is incarcerated at an Ohio State Penitentiary,

848
01:22:05.479 --> 01:22:11.359
serving a life sentence with no chance of parole. Over

849
01:22:11.399 --> 01:22:17.680
the years, Dowan exhausted his appeals, State courts upheld his conviction,

850
01:22:18.439 --> 01:22:24.760
and federal courts denied his petitions. Outside of a miraculous

851
01:22:24.800 --> 01:22:31.000
confession or new evidence surfacing, Dowan's case is closed in

852
01:22:31.039 --> 01:22:36.159
the criminal justice system. In prison, he has few headlines

853
01:22:37.119 --> 01:22:41.239
one bizarre footnote. In two thousand and fifteen, Dowan was

854
01:22:41.279 --> 01:22:45.239
bitten by a police dog during a disturbance at the prison,

855
01:22:45.960 --> 01:22:48.880
and later won a seven thousand and five hundred dollars

856
01:22:48.920 --> 01:22:54.720
settlement for his injuries, a grimly ironic epilogue, as some noted,

857
01:22:55.359 --> 01:23:00.199
for a man who caused so much injury to others.

858
01:23:01.359 --> 01:23:06.279
Through it all, Vincent Dowan insists he is innocent he

859
01:23:06.319 --> 01:23:12.560
has never wavered from that stance. For many, his protestations

860
01:23:12.720 --> 01:23:18.119
ring hollow against the massive evidence of his guilt. To

861
01:23:18.199 --> 01:23:22.840
this day, he has offered no apology, no admission, and

862
01:23:22.920 --> 01:23:30.279
no information to help locate Carrie. Tracy Baker Vincent's half brother,

863
01:23:30.439 --> 01:23:34.159
who helped him that night, served his sentence for obstruction

864
01:23:34.920 --> 01:23:39.199
and was released in two thousand and five. He returned

865
01:23:39.199 --> 01:23:44.199
to society and by most accounts, has kept a low profile.

866
01:23:45.239 --> 01:23:49.319
Lawrence Baker Vincent's father, lived out the remainder of his

867
01:23:49.439 --> 01:23:54.640
life under a cloud of suspicion by some, though he

868
01:23:54.920 --> 01:24:00.479
was acquitted in court. Chief Richard Peyton fade from the

869
01:24:00.479 --> 01:24:05.960
public eye after his retirement, his name now synonymous at

870
01:24:06.079 --> 01:24:10.960
least in Blanchester with a cautionary tale of how not

871
01:24:11.680 --> 01:24:18.199
to handle a missing person's case in Blanchester. Carrie's absence

872
01:24:18.319 --> 01:24:22.319
is still felt. She would be forty nine years old now,

873
01:24:23.039 --> 01:24:27.640
a fact that astonishes her childhood friends, who still picture

874
01:24:27.720 --> 01:24:32.319
the vivacious twenty two year old with big quote nineties

875
01:24:32.399 --> 01:24:38.119
hair and a radiant smile. Each year, on January thirty first,

876
01:24:38.600 --> 01:24:44.800
Debbie Culberson quietly marks Carrie's birthday. Public reaction to Carrie's

877
01:24:44.800 --> 01:24:49.479
story remains strong in the area. The case is taught

878
01:24:49.520 --> 01:24:53.800
in some police academies as part of domestic violence response

879
01:24:53.880 --> 01:25:00.319
training and investigative procedure. Memorial motorcycle rides and fire IFK

880
01:25:00.479 --> 01:25:05.159
runs have been organized by domestic violence awareness groups in

881
01:25:05.199 --> 01:25:10.760
her honor. On social media, the Fine Carrie Culberson Facebook

882
01:25:10.760 --> 01:25:17.319
page continues to share memories and updates, ensuring new generations

883
01:25:17.720 --> 01:25:23.640
hear her story. Strangers occasionally leave comments of support, and

884
01:25:23.800 --> 01:25:29.079
locals post photos of the memorial statue decorated for the holidays,

885
01:25:30.199 --> 01:25:35.119
purple ribbons for Domestic Violence Awareness Month, or flowers on

886
01:25:35.159 --> 01:25:41.039
the anniversary of her disappearance. Crucially, law enforcement has not

887
01:25:41.159 --> 01:25:46.960
forgotten Carrie either. The Clinton County Sheriff's Office retains open

888
01:25:47.119 --> 01:25:53.159
case files on her disappearance. Investigators periodically review the evidence

889
01:25:53.600 --> 01:25:59.039
with fresh eyes, hoping new forensic technology or a changed

890
01:25:59.119 --> 01:26:05.199
conscience might crack open the location of her remains. There

891
01:26:05.239 --> 01:26:10.159
have been recent leads, even decades later. In twenty nineteen,

892
01:26:10.640 --> 01:26:14.600
Deborah Culberson mentioned that letters had been discovered in prisons

893
01:26:15.039 --> 01:26:20.279
that potentially related to Carrie's case. Those letters were being

894
01:26:20.319 --> 01:26:25.560
followed up by law enforcement. Debbie didn't divulge details publicly,

895
01:26:26.239 --> 01:26:30.560
but she said, quote the reason I have hope is

896
01:26:30.640 --> 01:26:34.159
because there are so many law enforcement officials who have

897
01:26:34.319 --> 01:26:38.680
so much invested in Carrie's case that they won't give

898
01:26:38.760 --> 01:26:43.840
up even now. Officers who were just rookies back in

899
01:26:43.920 --> 01:26:48.840
nineteen ninety six have since risen to senior positions and

900
01:26:49.000 --> 01:26:54.920
carry forward the determination to bring Carrie home as long

901
01:26:54.960 --> 01:26:59.560
as somebody is willing to dig, search, or listen to

902
01:26:59.640 --> 01:27:06.600
a tip. Hope remains the case's broader legacy in Ohio's

903
01:27:06.640 --> 01:27:12.840
domestic violence law reforms is also notable today. The tragedy

904
01:27:12.880 --> 01:27:18.359
of Carrie Culberson became a rallying point for advocates. In

905
01:27:18.439 --> 01:27:23.560
the late nineties, Ohio implemented more robust protective order enforcement

906
01:27:24.159 --> 01:27:28.920
and improved how victims can get help. By the two thousands,

907
01:27:29.399 --> 01:27:33.319
thanks in part to awareness raised by cases like Carrie's,

908
01:27:34.000 --> 01:27:38.960
domestic violence training for police became more standardized across the state.

909
01:27:40.319 --> 01:27:45.159
Ohio also saw the creation of programs to confiscate firearms

910
01:27:45.199 --> 01:27:50.720
from convicted abusers and better cross agency communication when someone

911
01:27:50.760 --> 01:27:55.960
with a known violent history like Dowan is involved. While

912
01:27:56.079 --> 01:28:01.439
no legislation features Carrie's name, her case is frequently cited

913
01:28:01.479 --> 01:28:05.960
in Ohio Domestic Violence Task Force reports as an example

914
01:28:06.079 --> 01:28:13.600
of why early intervention and zero tolerance policies are so critical. Essentially,

915
01:28:14.079 --> 01:28:19.359
Carrie Culberson did not die in Vain. Her story spurred

916
01:28:19.479 --> 01:28:24.560
changes that have likely saved other lives, as every officer

917
01:28:24.600 --> 01:28:29.159
in that region now knows to take domestic violence calls

918
01:28:29.199 --> 01:28:35.000
seriously and to secure potential crime scenes diligently, no matter

919
01:28:35.079 --> 01:28:41.239
who the suspect may be. In the community of Blanchester,

920
01:28:41.840 --> 01:28:45.800
time has a way of moving forward, but reminders of

921
01:28:45.880 --> 01:28:51.439
Carrie's life and loss are ever present. On a corner

922
01:28:51.520 --> 01:28:56.000
of the Culberson family's property, a tree that Carrie planted

923
01:28:56.359 --> 01:29:01.800
as a little girl stands tall. The police station lobby

924
01:29:01.880 --> 01:29:06.640
still bears that plaque of Carrie, a silent exhortation to

925
01:29:06.760 --> 01:29:11.439
never stop looking. And of course, the memorial sculpture in

926
01:29:11.520 --> 01:29:15.800
front of the municipal building stands as a permanent testament.

927
01:29:16.800 --> 01:29:20.960
Town residents drive by it on their daily commutes, some

928
01:29:21.319 --> 01:29:26.800
perhaps now too young to recall nineteen ninety six, but

929
01:29:26.920 --> 01:29:31.119
their parents will tell them of the beautiful cheerleader who

930
01:29:31.159 --> 01:29:35.920
once graced these streets and the tragedy that befell her.

931
01:29:37.159 --> 01:29:42.880
Carrie's memory is woven into Blanchester's identity, a caution and

932
01:29:42.960 --> 01:29:54.520
a call for compassion. If you visit the memorial to day,

933
01:29:55.279 --> 01:29:58.359
you might see fresh flowers laid at the base of

934
01:29:58.439 --> 01:30:03.520
the statue. Perhaps they were left by Debbie, who often

935
01:30:03.560 --> 01:30:09.479
stops by, Perhaps by a friend or even a compassionate

936
01:30:09.560 --> 01:30:16.319
stranger moved by Carrie's story. The bronze woman gazes out

937
01:30:16.359 --> 01:30:22.199
with a patient, hopeful expression at her feet. The stone

938
01:30:22.239 --> 01:30:26.720
carved with the word hope catches the morning light. It's

939
01:30:26.760 --> 01:30:32.680
a hope that has been tested but not extinguished, hope

940
01:30:32.800 --> 01:30:38.000
that someday someone will come forward, or some clue will

941
01:30:38.039 --> 01:30:44.840
surface and carry can finally be found. Until that day,

942
01:30:45.760 --> 01:30:51.640
Carrie Culberson's case remains open in the only way that

943
01:30:51.760 --> 01:30:57.399
truly matters, open in the hearts of those who seek

944
01:30:57.680 --> 01:31:04.600
justice and closure for her. They will not rest until

945
01:31:04.680 --> 01:31:10.800
they bring Carrie home. Terrifying and True is narrated by

946
01:31:10.920 --> 01:31:15.119
Enrique Kuto. It's executive produced by Rob Fieldsman bobble Toopia

947
01:31:15.319 --> 01:31:18.840
dot com and produced by Dan Wilder, with original theme

948
01:31:18.960 --> 01:31:21.680
music by Ray Mattis. If you have a story you

949
01:31:21.760 --> 01:31:24.640
think we should cover on Terrifying and True, send us

950
01:31:24.640 --> 01:31:28.239
an email at Weekly Spooky at gmail dot com and

951
01:31:28.319 --> 01:31:29.840
if you want to support us for as little as

952
01:31:29.840 --> 01:31:32.439
one dollar a month, go to Weekly Spooky dot com

953
01:31:32.439 --> 01:31:35.199
slash join. Your support for as little as one dollar

954
01:31:35.279 --> 01:31:37.800
a month keeps the show going. And speaking of I

955
01:31:37.840 --> 01:31:39.600
want to say an extra special thank you to our

956
01:31:39.640 --> 01:31:42.800
Patreon podcast boosters, folks who pay a little bit more

957
01:31:42.920 --> 01:31:44.319
to hear their name at the end of the show.

958
01:31:44.479 --> 01:31:47.960
And they are Kate and Lulu, Jessica Fuller, Johnny Nix,

959
01:31:48.039 --> 01:31:51.800
Jenny Green, Amber Hansford, Brent McCullough, Karen we Met, Jack

960
01:31:51.880 --> 01:31:54.399
Ker and Craig Cohen. Thank you all so much and

961
01:31:54.479 --> 01:31:57.079
thank you for listening. We'll see you all right here

962
01:31:57.199 --> 01:32:00.960
next time on Terrifying and True No No