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March 13, 2026

Cutting Deep Into Horror | Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer (1986): Why It’s So Disturbing

Cutting Deep Into Horror | Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer (1986): Why It’s So Disturbing
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Cutting Deep Into Horror

Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer (1986) is one of the bleakest and most notorious serial killer horror films ever made, and in this episode of Cutting Deep into Horror, Henrique Couto and Rachael Redolfi dig into what makes John McNaughton’s grim 1986 cult classic still feel so raw, disturbing, and hard to shake. Starring Michael Rooker in a chilling breakout role, Henry strips away slick movie thrills and replaces them with grime, dread, and the sickening feeling that you are watching something you should not be seeing.

Inside this episode:

- why Henry feels more like a serial killer character study than a conventional slasher
- how the film’s cold, ugly realism makes the violence hit harder
- the disturbing dynamic between Henry, Otis, and Becky
- why the ending lingers long after the credits
- how the movie uses restraint, suggestion, and atmosphere to become even more upsetting than gorier horror films
- whether its “true story” reputation helps or hurts the movie’s power

Henrique and Rachael get into the film’s nasty little-world realism, its uncomfortable intimacy, Michael Rooker’s unsettling screen presence, and the way Henry blurs the line between horror movie, exploitation film, and crime nightmare. They also talk through the movie’s reputation, what makes Becky such an important part of the story, and why this one still feels meaner and more dangerous than a lot of modern serial killer horror.

Film details
Year: 1986
Director: John McNaughton
Starring: Michael Rooker, Tom Towles, Tracy Arnold
Runtime: 83 minutes

Where to watch (U. S., this week):
https://www.amazon.com/gp/vide..., and free options including https://pluto.tv/on-demand/mov..., https://athome.fandango.com/co...~Vudu~GoogleWatch, and https://watch.plex.tv/movie/he..., with rental/purchase options on https://tv.apple.com/us/movie/...

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👨‍💼 Executive Producers: Rob Fields, Bobbletopia.com
🎥 Produced by: Daniel Wilder
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WEBVTT

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That's a nice dog you got there.

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Yeah, yeah, it's my little dog Fife.

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Yeah, he's he's a cutie fiefee.

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Huh yeah, yeah, he's. He's a cute little uh a

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little mutt dog.

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Got a leasha on that thing.

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Huh yeah, So he doesn't, you know, he's a dog.

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There's there's laws.

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I know what a dog is.

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You've got some very intense eyes.

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What's that supposed to mean?

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Just an observation. So you like Chicago, it's a it's

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pretty nice city. I've gotta I gotta go, like meet

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with some people.

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Cool, I'm a murderer.

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Yeah, kinda kind of was getting that, getting that vibe there.

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Come on, Fifi.

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This podcast is about why horror scares us, what deep, dark,

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secret scary cinema shines a light on. The discussions are

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frank and involve conversations about abuse, trauma, and mental health.

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There are awesome spoilers, so.

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Keep that in mind too.

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Now, sharpen your machetes and straight razors, because this is

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Cutting Deep into Horror.

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Welcome back to Cutting Deep into Horror. I am, of

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course your host, Enrique Kuto here with my co host

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Rachel Ridolfi. Rachel how are you.

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I'm doing pretty all right.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, you survived the storm today barely.

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I was like, it was kind of intense out in

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the workshop.

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It was getting brutal. Huh yeah, yeah I was. I

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was in the cigar lounge, so I was just watching

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the rain. Apparently some trees fell down out by the

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County Line road.

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Oh yeah, that's the place for it to happen.

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Yeah, it makes sense.

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But yeah, I was just staring at the one tree

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in our backyard, like, please, don't let this be the day.

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Oh gosh, don't talk about that tree. Give me anxiety.

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But so, last time we were here, we talked about

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Confessions of a serial Killer, one of my favorite kind

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of underappreciated hidden gems of a very dark, creepy true

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crime horror story, and it brought about the realization that

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you had never seen the more famous serial killer horror

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film based on a true story, Henry Portrait of a

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serial Killer, which, oddly enough, they were produced basically at

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the same time. Yeah, they were both made in around

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eighty five eighty forty five area, and both took quite

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a while to come out. Her Portrait of a serial

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Killer was made in nineteen eighty six or at least

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completed in eighty six, and it wasn't really I don't

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believe it was heavily released until yeah, until nineteen ninety damn.

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So it screened in eighty six and then sat until

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January fifth, nineteen ninety damn. Because now, okay, So, first

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of all, if you've never seen Henry Portrait of a

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serial Killer, it's a rough watch. But it's a really

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brilliant movie. Oh yeah, very fascinating character study and considered

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one of the top tier of you know, kind of gross,

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nasty horror, serial killer true crime movies. But when it

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was made, I almost lost my train of thought, but

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then I remembered it. My point was, they tried to

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claim that it was because the film was too violent,

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too brutal, too graphic, fast, too furious to come out,

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but in reality, a lot of it was the producers

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were terrified of lawsuits because they used the real names

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in the film. Yeah, the three leads, Henry, Otis, although

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it was Oddis in real life, Otis, and Becky. Those

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were all their real names, which is extra funny because,

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as we talked about last time on Confessions, Confessions is

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far more accurate to the story as they understood it

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at the time of Henry Lee Lucas the serial Killer,

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far more accurate, and they changed all of the names,

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and then you get Henry, which is barely resemblant to

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Henry Lee Lucas, and they use the actual names, so

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you know. Yeah, so there were some fears that there

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could be legal repercussions, but they might have even used

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some names of victims. I can't remember off the top

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of my head, but yeah, so you know, we end

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up with Henry Henry Portrait of a serial Killer. If

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you've never seen the film before, it is streaming right

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now free with ads on to b Pluto TV and

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the Roku channel, so you know, check it out if

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you have the stomach for the Harsher movies. We've definitely

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done two of the Harsher ones back to back and

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they're about the same subject matter, so it kind of

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makes sense. Yeah, but in some ways, in a lot

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of ways, I think Henry is a little softer.

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It is I have to confessions.

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Yeah, well, and they're a little bit kinder to it

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the Henry character in a way, although that is in

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a way also to pull the rug on you some

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that they kind of established this idea that Henry has

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like a degree of morality, a degree of justice or

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or yeah, I guess morality is really the only word

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for it.

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Or any kind of scruples.

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Yeah and yeah. In Confessions, he just does not, not

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even vaguely well.

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In Confessions he literally says like, I don't know, killing

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for me is like breathing is for you.

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So yeah, just do it all the time. Yeah, just

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all the time, everywhere, all the time. So but Henry,

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for all the bullying I can do to the film

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because of its heavy artistic license with Henry Lee Lucas,

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it's a phenomenal movie. It's very well thought out, it's

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very well directed, well performed. The actors are all great

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in it. It captures a very perfect Chicago sleeze my mentality,

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Like it really gets that to a tee. Yeah, and

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it's a classic. Confessions of a serial Killer kind of

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came out and it was kind of lost to time

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for quite a while. But Henry has been notorious for

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just about as long as it's existed. And in many ways,

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Henry was one of those rites of passage movies. You know,

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you have to watch Henry, you have to watch Texas Chainsaw, Maasacre,

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you have to watch Cannibal Holocaust, you have to watch

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you know, you know whatever the gross out movie is.

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So it's definitely lived on and it launched several big careers,

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including the director John McNaughton, who went on to direct

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a bunch of movies. But one of the most famous

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was Wild Things from nineteen ninety eight with Nev Campbell

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and Matt Dillon and oh gosh, what was there the

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other Denise Richards and Wild Things was a massive movie.

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I mean, it was a cultural phenomenon when it came out,

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mainly because it had everybody was waiting to see the

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threesome scene. That's what Wild Things was kind of about

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in that way. But John McNaughton's made a lot of

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really interesting movies, but that one is probably beyond Henry

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one of his most interesting and he's very talented director.

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But then Michael Rooker came out of this film. He's

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the star of the film playing Henry, and Michael Rooker

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has had a truly incredible career, appearing in movies like Mississippi, Burning,

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Days of Thunder, JFK. Cliffhanger, Tombstone, Mal Rats, The Bone, Collector,

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and he ended up becoming really good buddies with James

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Gunn and appeared in Super and then later on in

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both the Peacemaker series and as a major role in

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Guardians of the Galaxy one and two. So he's had

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an incredible career, just tons and tons of work. And

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another guy that some people may not know his name

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off the top of their heads, but a guy who

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he became pretty well known, especially in genre spaces as

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a character actor, is Tom Toles, who plays Otis and

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he has been in so many movies. He played Cooper

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in Night A Living Dead nineteen ninety the remake. He

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wouldn't even recognize him. He looks depletely different. Yeah, he

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was in Blood in Blood Out, he was in The Rock,

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He was on episodes of NYPD Blue. He was in

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Doctor Doolittle, he was in The Devil's Rejects. He was

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in episodes of Miami Vice. He was in an episode

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of Malcolm in the Middle. I mean, he just had

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quite the career, just appearing in tons and tons of films,

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and often he would appear in more genre movies and

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TV shows. I mean I just pulled up his TV listings.

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It's nuts. I mean he was in an episode of

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Deep Space nine star Trek Deep Space nine Seinfeld the

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same year, La law, let's see Third Rock from the Sun.

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Like you see what I mean? Like, yeah, star Trek Voyager.

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Damn. I mean, he just gets tons of.

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Work, huh, he did. He Unfortunately we lost him in

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twenty fifteen, but he was at Cinema Wasteland once or twice.

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Oh really, he was a very very nice guy. So anyway,

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their careers launched from this film, and they all had

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pretty substantial Hollywood careers. So I think that's that alone

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is really interesting for a little small ish movie based

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out of Chicago. They had about one hundred thousand dollars

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to work with, financed by MPI Home Video, who at

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the time were dabbling and creating things, and to this

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day they still own Henry, and it's one of their

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big ownerships is Henry. And they bought the rights to

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the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre. I don't know how long ago,

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but they're still putting out editions of it.

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Huh.

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But yeah, So that's that's my rundown of Henry. And

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the first time I saw Henry, I believe I rented

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it at Hollywood Video, much like I rented Confessions of

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a Serial Killer from Hollywood Video and I do remember

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being shocked by it, which is interesting because as an

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adult watching it it actually the pace is very slow

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and the violence is mostly off screen to an extent. Yeah,

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but it's it is hefty. The violence we get is

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memorable and shocking and gruesome. But I will say, like

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if you watched it back to back with Confessions, it

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feels a little tame. It does so a little yeah,

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you know.

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Yeah, not by like leaps and bounds, but yeah.

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But what makes the movie work is Michael Rooker's intensity.

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Because in Confessions, and you mentioned this right away, like

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in Confessions, the Henry character Daniel Ray Hawkins, he comes

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off as a creep and a kind of a weirdo,

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but you know, he makes you feel uh yeah, but

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Henry and Henry Portrait of a serial Killer, Rooker's character

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comes off he's not quite charming, he's not quite that far,

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but he's just really intense. M So he's more off

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putting but not not necessarily like scary in that way.

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If that makes it, I don't know what.

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No, it it makes sense to me, and to me

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it with with confessions. There was much more like a

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feeling of like, if I were to meet this character

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on the street, I would just like cross to the

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other side and get away as as far as possible.

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But the thing that makes Henry so creepy in portrait

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is that, because he was so much more calculating, you

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would give him the time of day. Yeah, he was intense,

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but he's one of those people you're like, ah, well,

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maybe he's got like the touch of the tism, you know,

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like I don't know, you just cry, you know, give

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him a break. And that's that's how he gets into

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your house and murders you, is because you're willing to

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let your guard down around him a little bit.

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And he did have an eerie confidence to him too,

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you know, he could walk up to anybody and just

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start talking to them. Yeah, he's got like a brooding

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miss Yeah.

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And that he felt much more like an anti heroo

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to me, because you were, to an extent you were

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supposed to sympathize with him, Yeah, and you are supposed

217
00:13:17.879 --> 00:13:22.919
to kind of unders like really start to get into

218
00:13:22.960 --> 00:13:25.279
his head and start to understand, like.

219
00:13:25.799 --> 00:13:30.159
Almost like it's a portrait of a serious.

220
00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:32.879
Yeah, I see what you did there.

221
00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:36.000
I mean, you know that was just an artsy turn

222
00:13:36.120 --> 00:13:39.559
back then to call a movie a portrait of a whatever. Yeah,

223
00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:42.720
but no, I think you're right, and that's kind of what.

224
00:13:42.720 --> 00:13:45.000
What about the movie I like is they do rug

225
00:13:45.080 --> 00:13:48.519
pull you for it though, Yes, and it has That's

226
00:13:48.559 --> 00:13:50.360
the other thing these two movies have in common is

227
00:13:50.360 --> 00:13:53.919
they have a chilling last moment, and I think they're

228
00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:57.080
competitive for which is the most chilling. Although I think

229
00:13:57.120 --> 00:14:03.000
Confessions wins. I think Confessions leave feeling really dirty. Yes,

230
00:14:03.279 --> 00:14:08.679
Henry leave feeling pretty dirty, you know so, But I

231
00:14:08.960 --> 00:14:11.879
mean I could I I don't know. Maybe I'm biased.

232
00:14:11.879 --> 00:14:14.559
I've always thought Confessions didn't get enough love.

233
00:14:15.519 --> 00:14:19.919
I think I think of the two, I definitely have

234
00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:25.519
to agree that Confessions, the end line, the end scene

235
00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:30.240
is much more chilling and it kind of sticks with you.

236
00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:36.639
But what sticks with you for Portrait is the whole ride.

237
00:14:37.559 --> 00:14:41.480
Like it's not just that one moment, it's the whole thing,

238
00:14:41.679 --> 00:14:46.399
Like you kind of remember the whiplash that you feel

239
00:14:47.279 --> 00:14:49.840
more than anything else, or at least I did.

240
00:14:50.240 --> 00:14:52.399
I think that's a fair statement. Well, we're going to

241
00:14:52.440 --> 00:14:54.600
take a quick break and then I'm gonna pick your

242
00:14:54.600 --> 00:14:56.840
brain a little bit more about your first impressions on

243
00:14:56.919 --> 00:15:01.919
Henry before we dive deep into this Portrait of a

244
00:15:01.960 --> 00:15:18.080
serial Killer. Right right after this, so we're back talking

245
00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:22.039
about Henry Portrait of a serial Killer. And I want

246
00:15:22.039 --> 00:15:25.679
to mention the poster for Henry, the poster that became

247
00:15:25.799 --> 00:15:31.360
infamous wasn't even that salacious. It was a shot of

248
00:15:31.399 --> 00:15:33.559
Henry from toward the end of the film when he's

249
00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:37.519
looking at himself in the mirror in that sleazy hotel room. Yeah,

250
00:15:37.559 --> 00:15:42.480
he's got the grimace going looking at himself and it's

251
00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:46.960
in a little square cutout all black, and above it

252
00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:52.919
it says he's not Freddy, he's not Jason, He's real.

253
00:15:55.639 --> 00:15:56.679
I like that though.

254
00:15:56.960 --> 00:15:59.799
Yeah, so that is I mean that's what they were

255
00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:03.080
going for, this idea that he was believable and real,

256
00:16:03.480 --> 00:16:05.879
which I do feel that's the case, Which is funny because,

257
00:16:05.879 --> 00:16:10.000
as we mentioned, very minimally based on a true story

258
00:16:10.720 --> 00:16:14.360
at all. But he does come off like a real person.

259
00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:20.679
The crimes he commits are not shocking that he could

260
00:16:20.840 --> 00:16:24.799
get away with them, like they're in the time period.

261
00:16:24.879 --> 00:16:27.679
You know, the idea that you know, if somebody pulls

262
00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:30.200
up to help you with your car and nobody's around,

263
00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:31.919
you just shoot him and drive away. How would anybody

264
00:16:31.960 --> 00:16:34.639
ever catch you have no connection to that person? That

265
00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:37.320
makes sense? Yeah, I mean I wouldn't bet on it,

266
00:16:37.879 --> 00:16:40.960
and I don't want to murder anybody, but I get

267
00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:44.840
where that you know how that could work? I guess so.

268
00:16:45.080 --> 00:16:48.440
But what were your first impressions? I mean, you talked

269
00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:50.799
about it a little bit before the break when we

270
00:16:50.879 --> 00:16:52.120
put it up. I put it up on the big

271
00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:54.000
screen for you, and you were watching it like a

272
00:16:54.039 --> 00:16:56.919
week after you first saw Confessions.

273
00:16:58.679 --> 00:17:02.879
The first thing that that really struck me was how

274
00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:09.960
starkly different the like opening credits are, and also how

275
00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:15.279
starkly different, like by and large the soundtracks are. Sure,

276
00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:20.039
I think that I like the soundtrack of Portrait a

277
00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:26.400
little bit more, and not just because Bucket had sampled

278
00:17:26.440 --> 00:17:30.480
it quite a bit, Yeah, but also I just feel

279
00:17:30.519 --> 00:17:36.160
like the atmosphere that it builds is so perfect for

280
00:17:36.680 --> 00:17:40.559
that movie. I just I really liked it.

281
00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:44.839
The soundtrack is very experimental. It's a very like out

282
00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:49.000
like a very out there synthesizer thing, and they and

283
00:17:49.039 --> 00:17:53.279
they do this whole thing where they sampled violent sounds,

284
00:17:53.680 --> 00:17:56.400
like the sounds of yelling and glass breaking and women's

285
00:17:56.400 --> 00:18:00.799
screaming and played it as notes in the music very subtly,

286
00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:04.279
not not out and out. It was kind of almost

287
00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:06.920
it was like one step above subliminal. I mean you

288
00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:09.680
could notice it if you were listening now. The music

289
00:18:09.759 --> 00:18:11.920
is one of the most powerful parts of Henry. It's

290
00:18:12.039 --> 00:18:16.240
very engrossing, and the opening is very artsy. And that's

291
00:18:16.279 --> 00:18:19.440
the thing I would say is John McNaughton's pretty artsy

292
00:18:19.480 --> 00:18:21.960
at times. Nothing against him. I think that that's why

293
00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:24.079
Henry works is because it is kind of an art

294
00:18:24.079 --> 00:18:27.839
film MM in a lot of ways. It's really not

295
00:18:27.920 --> 00:18:32.720
a slasher movie. It's it's a character study, yeah, and

296
00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:36.759
an unflinching one, which is kind of I think unflinching

297
00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:39.920
is a good way to describe Henry. You know. There's

298
00:18:39.960 --> 00:18:43.599
never any looking away or anything like that. So but

299
00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:45.839
I've always thought it was a great film, and I've

300
00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:48.359
always thought that it's it's one of those movies that, like,

301
00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:51.680
if somebody is saying, I want to get into horror movies,

302
00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:53.200
but I don't know if I have the stomach, I'm like,

303
00:18:53.240 --> 00:18:55.359
all right, well, we should show you Henry, you know,

304
00:18:55.759 --> 00:18:58.160
we should show you Texas Chainsaw. You know, just to

305
00:18:58.200 --> 00:19:01.279
get you started. Yeah, like movies that are gonna really

306
00:19:01.400 --> 00:19:05.319
gut punch you to see where you land. So but

307
00:19:06.039 --> 00:19:08.079
since you mentioned it, we could jump into the beginning

308
00:19:08.119 --> 00:19:12.759
of the film because that was actually a really good segue. Yeah.

309
00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:19.759
But so the opening are these tableaus of dead women,

310
00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:24.160
and the way they revealed is, you know, we hear

311
00:19:24.200 --> 00:19:28.559
the music and the camera just moves to reveal these

312
00:19:28.599 --> 00:19:33.240
women in various states of just gruesome murder. Yeah, And

313
00:19:33.279 --> 00:19:38.319
supposedly those were based on actual reports on Henry Lee Lucas.

314
00:19:38.319 --> 00:19:40.599
I don't know how accurate that actually is, or maybe

315
00:19:40.640 --> 00:19:43.279
they got inaccurate reports at the time, who knows, because

316
00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:46.680
it was a long time ago. But that's that's where

317
00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:50.640
that concept, those concepts came from. So we see Henry

318
00:19:50.920 --> 00:19:54.799
traveling going places. He's on the highway or whatever, and

319
00:19:54.839 --> 00:19:57.839
then each time he leaves a place, we get this

320
00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:02.000
tableau dead woman in the hotel, woman in the creek, yeah,

321
00:20:02.240 --> 00:20:06.319
dead woman in a shop or m h and and

322
00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:10.000
just the slow camera moves in to the dead person

323
00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:12.680
and the music that this ethereal.

324
00:20:12.319 --> 00:20:20.920
A while there sounds of like subtle crashings.

325
00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:23.319
And and swear to die bitch, like that's in one

326
00:20:23.359 --> 00:20:26.519
of the sounds they yeah, they put in there. It's

327
00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:31.519
it's very eerie, and it is fascinating because it almost

328
00:20:31.960 --> 00:20:34.720
it's almost like it's displaying like works of art that

329
00:20:34.799 --> 00:20:39.039
Henry is left behind. Yeah, because tableau, for those who

330
00:20:39.079 --> 00:20:42.279
don't know, it's it's literally pose posing as art. It's

331
00:20:42.279 --> 00:20:45.759
it's a it's not still life technically, but it's people

332
00:20:45.799 --> 00:20:48.640
staying in one position. You know that they've been positioned

333
00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:52.240
in very specifically m hm. So in a way, it

334
00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:55.000
is kind of like they're revealing the artwork that Henry's

335
00:20:55.039 --> 00:20:57.359
created in a very twisted way. Yeah.

336
00:20:58.119 --> 00:21:02.839
And I feel that there was the way the music

337
00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:10.839
cues with the tableaus was very similar to me that

338
00:21:11.079 --> 00:21:18.759
the music cue changed in the home invasion scene of Confessions.

339
00:21:19.240 --> 00:21:20.799
And I liked.

340
00:21:20.680 --> 00:21:26.640
How that music cue wasn't just at the start of

341
00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:31.200
the movie. There was several times there was different tableaus,

342
00:21:31.279 --> 00:21:34.039
like even throughout the movie, and you would hear that,

343
00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:38.000
and so it almost kind of like psychologically conditioned you

344
00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:42.359
that when you started to hear that like otherworldly synth,

345
00:21:42.440 --> 00:21:45.640
you were like, oh no, we're gonna see like another

346
00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:46.480
death tableau.

347
00:21:46.759 --> 00:21:49.480
Yeah. Well, and and the idea is that in a

348
00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:52.440
way what they want you to have, because most of

349
00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:54.640
the time when we're seeing these tableaus, we haven't even

350
00:21:54.680 --> 00:21:56.960
really met Henry yet. He's just kind of existing in

351
00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:00.319
front of us, So it's almost like we're getting his

352
00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:04.480
reputation preceding him. It's almost like, Oh, you're familiar with

353
00:22:04.519 --> 00:22:09.079
my work, and now you're meeting me, which is twisted, dark,

354
00:22:09.279 --> 00:22:13.880
and creepy, which you'll probably hear those words in that

355
00:22:14.119 --> 00:22:18.000
order at least a few more times during this. And

356
00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:21.279
we haven't even gotten to Chicago yet, but we will

357
00:22:21.680 --> 00:22:22.400
right after this.

358
00:22:36.839 --> 00:22:43.000
So after all of these death tableaus following Henry around,

359
00:22:43.839 --> 00:22:46.759
he finally pulls up to like a mall or a

360
00:22:46.799 --> 00:22:53.240
shopping center or something, and he's watching women as they

361
00:22:53.640 --> 00:22:59.880
leave and finally sees one, and like tracks are down

362
00:23:00.200 --> 00:23:03.440
and followers, he follows her home and we can see

363
00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:07.640
the gears turning, but then a guy comes out to

364
00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:11.039
meet her like outside the door, and Henry just like

365
00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:14.839
drives away, and we start to really get the feeling

366
00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:18.720
pretty immediately that this is a very different portrayal than

367
00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:21.000
in Confessions.

368
00:23:21.400 --> 00:23:25.160
Yeah, he's a bit more plotting, yeah, and I mean

369
00:23:25.160 --> 00:23:27.799
because I mean in Confessions, he didn't like want to

370
00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:31.359
get caught. But he also would have never I mean

371
00:23:31.599 --> 00:23:35.759
in Confessions, he would have never stayed in one place

372
00:23:35.839 --> 00:23:39.200
so long while killing so often. Yeah, although if you're

373
00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:41.240
going to do it anywhere, Chicago makes the most sense.

374
00:23:42.680 --> 00:23:44.279
Were they going to come looking for you?

375
00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:46.680
I mean it's just there's a lot of bodies to

376
00:23:46.799 --> 00:23:54.799
dig through, so Chicago, Shy Town, the Windy City.

377
00:23:55.759 --> 00:23:59.839
So so yeah, we really see he's like methodical. Yeah,

378
00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:04.960
this one almost and that pretty much immediately goes into

379
00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:08.880
meeting Becky and otis because they meet each other like

380
00:24:09.039 --> 00:24:15.640
at the airport and as they're like driving back to

381
00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:19.960
his apartment. I don't know, I got the feeling that

382
00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:22.920
like she was supposed to be much more of a

383
00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:30.240
damsel in distress in this version, because in Confessions she's

384
00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:32.400
like a loose cannon.

385
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:36.599
Well, calling her a damsel in distress in comparison to

386
00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:41.200
the depiction and like Confessions of a serial Killer is

387
00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:43.440
an interesting way to put it. I mean, in this one,

388
00:24:43.559 --> 00:24:47.799
she is not murderous, Yeah, I mean she's really just

389
00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:52.240
like a normal moral human being. She's also much older

390
00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:56.000
she's in which is hilarious because the follow up is

391
00:24:56.039 --> 00:24:59.319
she's in her early twenties, so much older because in

392
00:24:59.359 --> 00:25:01.559
Confessions she was sixteen, and I think it realized she

393
00:25:01.599 --> 00:25:03.839
was thirteen or three years old or something like that.

394
00:25:05.359 --> 00:25:09.680
But in this you know, she's Otis's sister who they

395
00:25:09.680 --> 00:25:12.480
picked her up at the airport, and Otis and Henry

396
00:25:12.519 --> 00:25:15.799
were friends in prison, but Henry got out a few

397
00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:18.799
years before Otis did and they met back up after

398
00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:23.559
Otis got out. And Becky's married to a guy. I

399
00:25:23.559 --> 00:25:27.799
think his name was Leroy, Yeah, and Lee Roy was

400
00:25:27.799 --> 00:25:32.480
not a nice man. It sounds so apparently Becky packed

401
00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:36.960
up left, Leroy sent her daughter, their daughter to live

402
00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:40.480
with her mom, and she's in Chicago for a spell

403
00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:44.759
to catch your breath, crash with Otis, and possibly try

404
00:25:44.759 --> 00:25:48.119
to get set up to move to Chicago. Yeah, the

405
00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:50.319
idea being if she finds a good job and things

406
00:25:50.319 --> 00:25:52.279
are working out okay, then she'll send for her daughter.

407
00:25:53.519 --> 00:25:57.240
Very different from Becky just kind of being a drifter

408
00:25:57.359 --> 00:26:00.279
and ending up with them and everything like that. So

409
00:26:00.319 --> 00:26:04.160
she's a lot more yeah, I mean, like of the

410
00:26:04.279 --> 00:26:09.200
normal human in this scenario. It also becomes apparent very

411
00:26:09.279 --> 00:26:12.799
quickly that Otis and I'm getting a little ahead, but

412
00:26:12.839 --> 00:26:17.240
Otis doesn't know Henry just kills people. No, Like, he

413
00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:19.720
doesn't have any clue. He knows that why he knows

414
00:26:19.720 --> 00:26:23.319
that Henry killed his mother, which we'll get into in

415
00:26:23.359 --> 00:26:27.400
a minute, but he doesn't know that he's killed lots

416
00:26:27.400 --> 00:26:29.599
of people. He figures he's into some bad stuff.

417
00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:32.720
Yeah, but it's his whole thing is kind of like

418
00:26:32.759 --> 00:26:34.440
it's none of his business, and like.

419
00:26:35.079 --> 00:26:37.720
Well, he's slinging dope. Yeah, you know, on the side,

420
00:26:37.720 --> 00:26:40.519
he's working, he's on parole, working at a gas station

421
00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:43.880
as a as a thing and just selling weed. So

422
00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:47.359
you know, he's already and you know, flirting with the

423
00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:51.400
young patrons for the weed because he's a creep. I mean,

424
00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:55.200
he's just a total creep. So and I think Tom

425
00:26:55.240 --> 00:26:59.440
Tole's depiction was very, very good. I mean, he's believable.

426
00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:01.960
He's the kind of guy that, like, the more you

427
00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:04.079
get to know him, the more you realize, Okay, harmless

428
00:27:04.160 --> 00:27:08.920
is not what I would ascribe to his description, but

429
00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:11.160
it takes a minute. Yeah, because at first he seems

430
00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:13.359
like he's just kind of a good old boy. Hmm,

431
00:27:13.880 --> 00:27:15.559
you know that that's it. He seems like he.

432
00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:18.319
Just a little crass, a little rough around the engine.

433
00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:21.000
Yeah, yeah, but he's not, you know, but he's not

434
00:27:21.000 --> 00:27:22.920
nothing dangerous. And then the more you're around and the

435
00:27:22.920 --> 00:27:28.119
more you realize e. So Becky is of course immediately

436
00:27:28.279 --> 00:27:32.480
enamored with the Broodings stranger living in their apartment, and

437
00:27:32.599 --> 00:27:37.200
Henry is overall like, okay, your sister's staying here. That's fine,

438
00:27:37.319 --> 00:27:40.440
because at first he didn't remember. And then Otis literally

439
00:27:40.440 --> 00:27:44.440
said I told you about that. He was like, oh yeah, yeah,

440
00:27:44.519 --> 00:27:47.920
which which is like if anything humanizes Henry more, it's

441
00:27:47.920 --> 00:27:50.440
that I've been that. I've been that before. I told

442
00:27:50.480 --> 00:27:51.880
you all about it and you said it was fine,

443
00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:57.799
Yeah you did. Oh cool, Well then it's fine. If

444
00:27:57.799 --> 00:27:59.720
the past me was fine with it, then I'm fine

445
00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:04.920
with it. But so, of course Becky is just fascinated

446
00:28:04.920 --> 00:28:09.480
by him, so she talks to Otis, and Otis, God,

447
00:28:09.519 --> 00:28:12.559
he is really a well written character. Just immediately spills

448
00:28:12.559 --> 00:28:16.039
the beans because well, I guess it's not entirely Otis's fault.

449
00:28:16.359 --> 00:28:18.200
He says like he was in he was in jail,

450
00:28:18.680 --> 00:28:21.880
and she was like, what for? Do he kill his mama?

451
00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:24.640
Do you rob a bank? And Otis is like, well

452
00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:27.240
he was right the first time, and she's like what

453
00:28:27.640 --> 00:28:31.079
and He's like, eh, right, the first time he killed

454
00:28:31.079 --> 00:28:35.039
his mama, Yeah, beat her head in with a baseball bat.

455
00:28:35.279 --> 00:28:37.680
And the look on his face too, It just Otis.

456
00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:41.160
This character's so he's so great. He's such a perfect villain.

457
00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:43.480
But like the way he just smiles when he tells

458
00:28:43.480 --> 00:28:45.960
her the gruesome details. He's just He's also such a

459
00:28:45.960 --> 00:28:47.839
big brother, you know, he's just like grissing out his

460
00:28:47.839 --> 00:28:53.240
little sister. But so what's interesting about this, though, is

461
00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:57.759
that it doesn't scare her away. It actually kind of

462
00:28:57.799 --> 00:29:02.680
pulls her in. Yeah, Because I mean, shocker of the century.

463
00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:07.480
Otis's home life growing up wasn't so good, which means

464
00:29:07.519 --> 00:29:12.200
Becky's wasn't so good. And we get throughout the film

465
00:29:12.279 --> 00:29:15.880
little tastes of the awful things her father did to her,

466
00:29:16.279 --> 00:29:20.559
you know that range from beatings and verbal abuse to

467
00:29:20.960 --> 00:29:25.559
sexual abuse. We get the it's the whole shebang. But

468
00:29:25.640 --> 00:29:28.680
I love that he tells her like, don't tell Henry,

469
00:29:28.720 --> 00:29:31.759
I told you he'll kill me. And like the moment

470
00:29:31.839 --> 00:29:34.480
he's not there and she's alone with Henry, I think

471
00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:37.079
Otis was gonna go. He had to run an errand

472
00:29:37.160 --> 00:29:39.960
or something, and Henry's like, oh, hang back.

473
00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:42.079
Yeah, they're just sitting there playing cards.

474
00:29:42.720 --> 00:29:45.319
Ah, hang back, you might want to mention, by the way,

475
00:29:45.359 --> 00:29:47.319
because I know people are gonna mention it. I know

476
00:29:47.400 --> 00:29:50.279
that my Henry voice at the beginning really almost sounded

477
00:29:50.279 --> 00:29:52.519
like Steve Stone called Steve Austin, by the way. I

478
00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:54.279
realized it as soon as I was doing it in

479
00:29:54.319 --> 00:30:01.000
the microphone. But but he hangs back, and you're playing cards,

480
00:30:01.880 --> 00:30:04.400
and she almost immediately just goes like, did you really

481
00:30:04.480 --> 00:30:08.359
kill your mama? And You're like, wow, yeah, it wasn't

482
00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:12.960
even like two beats. You're really good at this, Like

483
00:30:13.039 --> 00:30:16.160
you and Otis both man like lips of steel. You

484
00:30:16.200 --> 00:30:20.880
would just keep a secret like nobody's business tact. Just tack.

485
00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:22.960
That's the word that used to be a t shirt

486
00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:27.319
with Otis' character's head that this is him smiling. I

487
00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:32.960
know what I'm making tomorrow. Oh. But instead of it

488
00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:35.960
scaring her away, because at first Henry's obviously taken aback

489
00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:40.079
by it, she explains her abuse and how her home

490
00:30:40.119 --> 00:30:42.680
life was really bad and how she could kind of understand,

491
00:30:43.559 --> 00:30:45.640
like she basically wants to know, like she must have

492
00:30:45.720 --> 00:30:48.279
done something really bad to you, you know, for you

493
00:30:48.359 --> 00:30:51.759
to do that, and that kind of blows his mind

494
00:30:52.519 --> 00:30:55.200
because she did do a lot of really bad things

495
00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:57.920
to him, and he describes them, and they're very similar

496
00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:01.279
to confessions we talked about. Yeah, you know, describes his

497
00:31:01.319 --> 00:31:05.559
mom prostituting, beating them, making them watch her have sex

498
00:31:05.599 --> 00:31:09.400
with men. You know. It's and also added the part

499
00:31:09.440 --> 00:31:11.559
about dressing him up in a dress and stuff like that,

500
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:13.559
which is one of the few times he really came

501
00:31:13.599 --> 00:31:15.359
off as vulnerable because when she said when he says

502
00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:17.000
that she just goes in a dress and he's like,

503
00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:21.640
what you think that's funny, and she's like, no, it's terrible. Yeah.

504
00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:27.160
So they bond over this, but when Henry's telling her

505
00:31:27.160 --> 00:31:30.440
how he did it, he says he shot her his mom,

506
00:31:30.599 --> 00:31:32.720
and then she's like, otis said it was a baseball.

507
00:31:32.759 --> 00:31:33.240
He's like, oh.

508
00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:38.599
Yeah, Well it's even better though, because at first he's

509
00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:41.759
saying that he stabbed her. Oh Like initially he says like,

510
00:31:41.799 --> 00:31:44.400
I stabbed her, and then like they keep talking about it,

511
00:31:44.440 --> 00:31:48.000
and then he keeps reminiscing. He's like, yeah, it was

512
00:31:48.119 --> 00:31:51.400
when I was fourteen and I couldn't take it anymore.

513
00:31:51.759 --> 00:31:53.960
And after she hit me in the head with a

514
00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:56.440
beer bottle, I grabbed the gun and I shot her,

515
00:31:57.160 --> 00:31:59.480
and Becky's like, I thought you shit, I thought you said.

516
00:31:59.599 --> 00:32:00.440
Yeah.

517
00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:03.240
So he can't, like Otis didn't get it right, he

518
00:32:03.279 --> 00:32:06.319
can't even keep the story straight. But that doesn't that

519
00:32:06.359 --> 00:32:09.920
doesn't raise any alarm bells for her that he can't

520
00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:12.240
keep the story straight of how he killed his mom,

521
00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:15.720
which you'd think your first murder, you would kind of remember.

522
00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:17.240
Well, he never said it was his first murder. Oh,

523
00:32:17.279 --> 00:32:21.319
fair enough, but no, you're right. But it also although

524
00:32:21.319 --> 00:32:23.920
they didn't do a lot of that, you know, the

525
00:32:24.200 --> 00:32:26.440
Henry Lee Lucas doubt stuff, they did way more of

526
00:32:26.480 --> 00:32:29.640
it in confessions. That is one of those moments where

527
00:32:29.640 --> 00:32:33.319
you realize Henry's not entirely honest. He's kind of pathological

528
00:32:33.519 --> 00:32:36.559
mm hmmm, because he's literally made up multiple stories about

529
00:32:36.640 --> 00:32:39.240
killing his mom, and we're almost certain he did kill

530
00:32:39.240 --> 00:32:44.240
his mom mm hmm. But the way has changed from

531
00:32:44.359 --> 00:32:46.920
every time he tells it. Yeah, and that could be

532
00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:51.200
deeper too. I mean, Henry could just be delusional, you know,

533
00:32:51.279 --> 00:32:54.200
completely deluded, and when he retells the story, it's just

534
00:32:54.200 --> 00:32:57.119
whichever he hated his mother so much, it's just whichever

535
00:32:57.359 --> 00:33:03.160
fantasy that Yeah, well, I mean killing your mother is

536
00:33:03.160 --> 00:33:06.960
is you know a big element with serial killers? M h.

537
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:12.640
And it's interesting because when do you know Ed Kemper

538
00:33:12.680 --> 00:33:17.359
isn't We'll talk about Ed Kemper right after the break

539
00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:20.319
because this is gonna get heady. Oh god, I didn't

540
00:33:20.319 --> 00:33:21.920
mean it like that. He cuts off a lot of

541
00:33:21.920 --> 00:33:36.839
people's heads right after this. So we're talking real quick

542
00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:42.359
about Ed Kemper, the serial killer who was most active

543
00:33:42.559 --> 00:33:45.759
in May of nineteen seventy two and through April of

544
00:33:45.839 --> 00:33:51.480
nineteen seventy three. Yeah, he murdered seven women, including his

545
00:33:51.519 --> 00:33:52.079
own mother.

546
00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:54.640
That's actually a lot of people.

547
00:33:54.519 --> 00:33:57.880
In under a year or just over a year. So

548
00:33:58.599 --> 00:34:02.119
Ed Kemper was a really fast doating figure in the

549
00:34:02.160 --> 00:34:05.319
world of serial killers because he was well. First of all,

550
00:34:05.359 --> 00:34:07.319
he was a mammoth of a man. He was six

551
00:34:07.359 --> 00:34:11.000
foot nine, goddamn and often weighed over three hundred pounds.

552
00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:14.880
He was very, very big. He was extremely soft spoken,

553
00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:23.679
and when he was in prison he was notoriously kind, calm,

554
00:34:23.920 --> 00:34:31.400
and friendly. His murders, most of them included necrophilia, decapitation, dismemberment,

555
00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:34.960
and possibly cannibalism, although I don't know I feel about

556
00:34:34.960 --> 00:34:38.239
possibly cannibalism because he admitted to everything he did. I'm

557
00:34:38.239 --> 00:34:40.760
pretty sure once he got arrested. So he was known

558
00:34:40.800 --> 00:34:43.800
as the co ed killer. He mostly killed co eds,

559
00:34:44.199 --> 00:34:47.320
okay and uh oh, and at the age of oh,

560
00:34:47.400 --> 00:34:49.800
at the age of fifteen, he murdered his paternal grandparents.

561
00:34:49.800 --> 00:34:51.960
I didn't know about that, so I guess he killed

562
00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:54.920
even more. Yeah, oh yeah. He was convicted of murdering

563
00:34:54.920 --> 00:34:57.559
seven women. Sorry, he may have murdered more people than that.

564
00:34:59.159 --> 00:35:02.760
But so Kemper was killing these co eds, you know,

565
00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:06.480
and cutting their heads off and just doing all these

566
00:35:06.519 --> 00:35:10.280
awful things. He killed his grandmother after an argument using

567
00:35:10.280 --> 00:35:15.280
a rifle and then stabbed her afterward. When his grandfather

568
00:35:15.320 --> 00:35:17.559
came home, he shot him in the driveway and then

569
00:35:17.599 --> 00:35:19.800
phoned his mother and told and she told him to

570
00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:24.000
call the police. So apparently Kemper told the police he

571
00:35:24.159 --> 00:35:26.719
just this, he's fourteen. He just wanted to see what

572
00:35:26.760 --> 00:35:30.519
it felt like to kill grandma, and later said that

573
00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:33.360
he killed his grandfather because he would be angry at him.

574
00:35:34.159 --> 00:35:37.400
Kemper's crimes were deemed incomprehensible for a fifteen year old

575
00:35:37.400 --> 00:35:40.039
to commit, and the court psychiatrist diagnosed him with paranoid

576
00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:42.760
schizophrenia and sent him away for a while, but he

577
00:35:42.800 --> 00:35:45.559
was eventually released. So anyway, I don't want to digress

578
00:35:45.559 --> 00:35:48.760
on him a ton. My point is Kemper kills all

579
00:35:48.800 --> 00:35:52.719
these women. And he claimed later on that he would

580
00:35:52.800 --> 00:35:55.559
imagine his mother every time he killed them, that he

581
00:35:55.719 --> 00:35:58.000
wanted to kill his mother so badly that he would

582
00:35:58.079 --> 00:36:00.960
kill any woman to to feel like he was killing

583
00:36:00.960 --> 00:36:03.519
his mother. So eventually, after he killed so many women,

584
00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:06.880
he just went to his mother, killed her, cut her

585
00:36:06.920 --> 00:36:11.519
head off, and then turned himself in and basically was like,

586
00:36:12.119 --> 00:36:18.519
please stop me. Yeah. So then he ends up in prison,

587
00:36:19.400 --> 00:36:23.840
and like I said, he he would talk to police officers,

588
00:36:24.039 --> 00:36:27.320
he would talk to crime crime crime investigators, he would

589
00:36:27.360 --> 00:36:30.760
do interviews, he would talk about other criminals, like he

590
00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:32.639
would anytime somebody was like I want to understand the

591
00:36:32.679 --> 00:36:33.840
mind of a killer, he'd be like, I'll sit with

592
00:36:33.840 --> 00:36:36.199
you as long as you want and talk about my life.

593
00:36:36.840 --> 00:36:39.840
But he was very he was odd. He was he

594
00:36:39.880 --> 00:36:43.639
was a very strange guy. The show mind Hunter had

595
00:36:43.639 --> 00:36:47.119
a depiction of him that was shockingly bizarre and accurate

596
00:36:47.159 --> 00:36:52.000
in many ways. But the idea of killing all these

597
00:36:52.039 --> 00:36:54.360
people then finally being like, what I need to do

598
00:36:54.440 --> 00:36:58.199
is kill my mother and then turn myself in. You know,

599
00:36:58.280 --> 00:37:02.320
please stop me, he requests. Did the death penalty, wow,

600
00:37:02.360 --> 00:37:06.039
But they commuted him to life or didn't give him

601
00:37:06.039 --> 00:37:08.800
the death penalty at all. He spent his time in

602
00:37:08.840 --> 00:37:13.239
prison volunteering, including reading books out loud for the blind

603
00:37:13.360 --> 00:37:17.599
on audio cassette. He from what I've heard, he recorded

604
00:37:17.800 --> 00:37:22.960
hundreds of hours of audio cassettes of books for the

605
00:37:23.199 --> 00:37:25.599
specifically a service that then they would dub those tapes

606
00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:28.119
and give them to the blind. So it's possible if

607
00:37:28.159 --> 00:37:30.920
you listen to an audio book in the seventies and eighties,

608
00:37:30.960 --> 00:37:34.000
you probably heard ed Kemper's voice because he would sit

609
00:37:34.119 --> 00:37:35.360
and do it. He woul because they would let him

610
00:37:35.360 --> 00:37:36.639
sit in a room alone with a tape recorder and

611
00:37:36.639 --> 00:37:38.159
he would just read books. And he loved to read.

612
00:37:39.400 --> 00:37:43.039
So he was and his attitude when people would talk

613
00:37:43.039 --> 00:37:44.960
to him is he'd be like, they should never let

614
00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:47.320
me out of here. If you let me out, I'll

615
00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:49.360
do it again. I know I will, because I don't

616
00:37:49.400 --> 00:37:54.840
know how to stop. So anyway, Like I just wanted

617
00:37:54.840 --> 00:37:58.199
to mention that because I think that that's that AE

618
00:37:58.239 --> 00:38:01.280
that is also terrifying the idea of having a degree

619
00:38:01.320 --> 00:38:06.079
of awareness of your situation, but also a degree of

620
00:38:06.159 --> 00:38:10.559
understanding of what compulsion is. And I suppose you, after

621
00:38:10.639 --> 00:38:12.480
killing so many people, you must have realized, like, I

622
00:38:12.519 --> 00:38:15.199
can't stop. I'm you know, I either don't want to

623
00:38:15.239 --> 00:38:20.840
stop or I simply am not capable of stopping myself. Therefore, yeah,

624
00:38:20.840 --> 00:38:23.199
you know, I need to be in prison. And I've

625
00:38:23.199 --> 00:38:26.360
always been fascinated by criminals like that, by violent criminals

626
00:38:26.400 --> 00:38:29.519
who are like I belong in here. I kind of

627
00:38:29.519 --> 00:38:32.480
respect that, yeah, you know, being able to kind of

628
00:38:32.760 --> 00:38:35.400
see yourself for who you are, who you actually are,

629
00:38:35.440 --> 00:38:38.920
and what you've actually done and accept the consequences, because

630
00:38:38.920 --> 00:38:41.719
it's really the only way to even get a vague

631
00:38:41.719 --> 00:38:44.880
amount of atonement is to accept the punishment for the

632
00:38:44.880 --> 00:38:48.119
crimes you committed, you know, accept the weight of what

633
00:38:48.159 --> 00:38:52.400
you've done, you know, And even that is not much

634
00:38:52.440 --> 00:38:56.199
comfort to people who have been harmed. But it's something. Yeah,

635
00:38:56.239 --> 00:38:59.280
it's better than nothing, It's better than words. Yeah, you know,

636
00:39:00.119 --> 00:39:01.840
be like, I know I did wrong. That's why I'm

637
00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:03.880
gonna sit in this cage for twenty five years or

638
00:39:03.880 --> 00:39:06.119
for the rest of my life or for whatever. So anyway,

639
00:39:07.800 --> 00:39:10.119
that all being said, I just think that's a fascinating case.

640
00:39:11.280 --> 00:39:15.400
Henry's not like this, not like that, no, no, so

641
00:39:15.400 --> 00:39:19.719
so he's had his little heart to heart with Becky

642
00:39:19.880 --> 00:39:24.400
about killing his math and now what's what are they

643
00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:25.079
up to now?

644
00:39:25.159 --> 00:39:30.559
So well, one thing I thought was interesting was, you know,

645
00:39:30.679 --> 00:39:35.440
Henry Otis works at like an auto repair shop and

646
00:39:35.639 --> 00:39:40.760
also sells drugs, and Henry's just kind of like a

647
00:39:41.000 --> 00:39:44.159
jack of all trades handyman though. Yeah, like uh so

648
00:39:44.480 --> 00:39:47.960
there there's a day where he goes and he's like

649
00:39:48.480 --> 00:39:53.320
spraying down an apartment building as like just doing an

650
00:39:53.360 --> 00:39:53.840
odd job.

651
00:39:53.960 --> 00:39:55.239
He's a bugman, and.

652
00:39:56.679 --> 00:40:00.400
The apartment owners like like, I don't don't have any

653
00:40:00.400 --> 00:40:02.519
more jobs for you now, but like here's you know,

654
00:40:02.599 --> 00:40:05.880
here's some money, and basically like gives them some extra cash.

655
00:40:06.159 --> 00:40:08.199
Just think of it as a retainer like answer when

656
00:40:08.199 --> 00:40:10.360
I call yeah, even says if I don't call you

657
00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:12.760
in a couple of days, call me yeah, which is

658
00:40:12.800 --> 00:40:15.880
funny because as a small business owner, I've said things

659
00:40:15.960 --> 00:40:18.079
like that to people I'm hiring for things. I've been like,

660
00:40:18.079 --> 00:40:19.960
if you don't hear from me in four days, you

661
00:40:20.039 --> 00:40:21.880
call me, because I do want to hire you, I

662
00:40:21.920 --> 00:40:22.519
may forget.

663
00:40:23.000 --> 00:40:27.519
Yeah, So like I love that that little bit of

664
00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:32.559
just like humanity there. But then Henry tries to give

665
00:40:32.760 --> 00:40:37.320
back the like canister, the big like bug spray thing

666
00:40:37.960 --> 00:40:42.679
and the uh you know, the apartment owner says like, oh,

667
00:40:42.760 --> 00:40:44.400
you can keep it because I know you're gonna have

668
00:40:44.440 --> 00:40:46.599
to use it again. So what does Henry do. He

669
00:40:46.760 --> 00:40:52.800
immediately turns around and uses that to disguise himself to

670
00:40:52.920 --> 00:40:56.000
get into someone's house and murder them.

671
00:40:56.119 --> 00:40:59.000
Not just someone a woman alone.

672
00:40:58.599 --> 00:41:00.880
Home and alone, and just walk up and you know,

673
00:41:00.960 --> 00:41:03.639
obviously introduces himself as like, oh, I'm here, you know,

674
00:41:03.679 --> 00:41:07.039
I can spray spray your house or whatever. And again

675
00:41:07.239 --> 00:41:12.400
we don't see the actual act of the murder. We

676
00:41:12.599 --> 00:41:14.960
just see him walking up and then we hear the

677
00:41:15.039 --> 00:41:19.039
music kind of swell and change, and then it goes

678
00:41:19.159 --> 00:41:24.880
to the camera slowly panning over her dead mostly naked

679
00:41:25.599 --> 00:41:29.119
on the couch, like strangled to death with chords.

680
00:41:28.760 --> 00:41:31.559
And we hear like an echo of the sounds that

681
00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:35.960
had happened. Yeah, the screams and the die die and

682
00:41:35.960 --> 00:41:40.119
and her Yeah. Oh and I always thought that that sound,

683
00:41:40.199 --> 00:41:44.800
that that that a kind of thing. It felt almost

684
00:41:44.840 --> 00:41:47.280
like it makes me think the sound makes me think

685
00:41:47.280 --> 00:41:50.760
of being underwater, kind of yeah. It makes me think

686
00:41:50.800 --> 00:41:55.119
of like relaxing relaxation music mm hm, which is very creepy.

687
00:41:55.199 --> 00:41:57.679
Yeah, like what you would hear in a spa or something.

688
00:41:57.840 --> 00:42:00.159
Yeah yeah, yeah, almost like world music, but then with

689
00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:01.559
the weird screen parts.

690
00:42:02.159 --> 00:42:03.079
Yeah.

691
00:42:03.199 --> 00:42:07.480
So but he's just getting started, kids, and we'll talk

692
00:42:07.519 --> 00:42:22.119
more about that right after this, so real quick. I

693
00:42:22.159 --> 00:42:24.039
did want to mention when I was looking back at

694
00:42:24.119 --> 00:42:28.119
some Henry portrait of of a serial killer trivia that

695
00:42:28.400 --> 00:42:30.480
two things came to mind that made me laugh a lot.

696
00:42:30.519 --> 00:42:34.159
Which is number one, Henry's outfit, which is just kind

697
00:42:34.199 --> 00:42:40.559
of a coverall jacket. Yeah, was actually Michael Rooker's uniform

698
00:42:40.639 --> 00:42:42.679
from his job as a janitor he had at the time,

699
00:42:43.039 --> 00:42:45.760
which is why every time they did a killing scene

700
00:42:45.800 --> 00:42:48.039
or whatever, he'd take his jacket off because he couldn't

701
00:42:48.039 --> 00:42:48.760
get blood on it.

702
00:42:51.639 --> 00:42:54.199
Love it, and I especially love it because we have

703
00:42:54.320 --> 00:42:57.199
been there where it's like okay, and now switch out

704
00:42:57.239 --> 00:42:57.719
the jacket.

705
00:42:58.000 --> 00:43:01.079
We can't get that one turney Yeah, no for real.

706
00:43:01.719 --> 00:43:03.599
But the other thing I wanted to mention is that

707
00:43:04.559 --> 00:43:09.719
they had some issues with casting for the victims, the

708
00:43:10.239 --> 00:43:13.440
murdered women victims, because the you know, the violence, the

709
00:43:13.719 --> 00:43:17.440
gratuity of the nudity and the just the heinousness of

710
00:43:17.480 --> 00:43:21.400
the murders. So all of the Tableau murder victims, the

711
00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:25.119
young women Tableau murder victims, are the same woman. Really,

712
00:43:25.639 --> 00:43:31.880
John McNaughton had a friend of his portrayed all of them. Huh, well,

713
00:43:31.880 --> 00:43:35.719
I work. No, I would never have guessed, yeah if

714
00:43:35.760 --> 00:43:38.719
it hadn't been pointing out, because they're so differently styled

715
00:43:38.719 --> 00:43:42.559
and everything. But yeah, they were all the same, the

716
00:43:42.599 --> 00:43:45.559
same person. So I just want to mention that because

717
00:43:45.559 --> 00:43:47.079
that's just a cool little tidbit.

718
00:43:47.679 --> 00:43:51.320
Yeah, No, that is that is very interesting and again

719
00:43:51.800 --> 00:43:54.760
very similar to stunts we've had to pull.

720
00:43:54.880 --> 00:43:56.840
Oh yeah, I mean we didn't have one hundred grand

721
00:43:56.880 --> 00:43:59.719
to burn through. Yeah, although they were shooting on sixteen millimeters,

722
00:43:59.719 --> 00:44:02.920
which is another big difference between this and Confessions. Confessions

723
00:44:02.920 --> 00:44:04.559
was shot on thirty five. I don't know how much

724
00:44:04.559 --> 00:44:06.239
money they had in Confessions. I think they had two

725
00:44:06.280 --> 00:44:09.239
hundred grand though, Okay, but I mean I don't know

726
00:44:09.519 --> 00:44:11.559
for sure. Yeah, I mean they went to a more

727
00:44:11.559 --> 00:44:14.119
traditional route. This was definitely a lot more kind of

728
00:44:14.199 --> 00:44:18.159
run and gun yeah than they were. Yeah, so Henry's

729
00:44:18.199 --> 00:44:21.960
killed yet another young woman. Mm hm. And now he's

730
00:44:21.960 --> 00:44:25.679
back at the house and Becky's got some news.

731
00:44:25.960 --> 00:44:29.159
Yeah, Becky's celebrating because she got a job at a

732
00:44:29.159 --> 00:44:36.559
hair salon. Yeah, she's a shampoo girl, which I do love.

733
00:44:37.320 --> 00:44:40.480
There are several scenes where the three of them are

734
00:44:40.639 --> 00:44:46.920
just like hanging out and it's almost wholesome. And this

735
00:44:47.079 --> 00:44:49.719
is one of those scenes where like they're both almost

736
00:44:49.960 --> 00:44:51.440
like kind of making fun of her, like what the

737
00:44:51.440 --> 00:44:53.360
fuck is a shampoo girl? And she's like, no, I've

738
00:44:53.400 --> 00:44:56.000
done the job before, and you know, like it's it's

739
00:44:56.039 --> 00:44:59.840
a it's a well respected job. And then they, you know,

740
00:45:00.039 --> 00:45:02.079
Otis being the big brother, makes fun of her because

741
00:45:02.079 --> 00:45:07.920
she's been a dancer before in her life and so he,

742
00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:13.119
you know, kind of ribs at her about that. So

743
00:45:13.679 --> 00:45:15.519
but then she wants to show off she's gotten a

744
00:45:15.519 --> 00:45:21.199
new T shirt, and again just the the the layers

745
00:45:21.480 --> 00:45:25.440
of character exposition she puts on. You know, she's got

746
00:45:25.440 --> 00:45:27.119
this T shirt and she kind of lifts it up

747
00:45:27.159 --> 00:45:30.800
and shows it, shows it off, and Henry goes, what

748
00:45:30.880 --> 00:45:35.199
does it say? And you just realize that he's totally illiterate.

749
00:45:35.280 --> 00:45:39.119
Well, he says he says it so nonchalantly. He just says,

750
00:45:39.239 --> 00:45:41.760
what's it say? Yeah, I mean he's like a smallest

751
00:45:41.800 --> 00:45:44.119
face because he's like joined in on the happy feelings. Yeah,

752
00:45:44.159 --> 00:45:47.760
it's iHeart Chicago. No, And that's a brief little thing

753
00:45:48.119 --> 00:45:52.679
which I honestly, knowing what I know about Michael Rooker

754
00:45:52.800 --> 00:45:56.599
and him growing up very very poor in poverty and

755
00:45:56.599 --> 00:45:59.320
stuff like that, I always wondered if that was a

756
00:45:59.559 --> 00:46:03.400
because he's from Jasper, Alabama originally, I always wondered if

757
00:46:03.400 --> 00:46:05.119
that was an improv or if that was in the

758
00:46:05.119 --> 00:46:08.559
script because we never get a hint that Henry can't

759
00:46:08.599 --> 00:46:11.480
read again, although we never see him like out and outread,

760
00:46:12.320 --> 00:46:15.639
and people who are I've known a few illiterate people.

761
00:46:16.679 --> 00:46:20.119
They memorize street signs and they memorize road signs. They

762
00:46:20.159 --> 00:46:22.239
memorize the shapes of the words. They just don't know

763
00:46:22.280 --> 00:46:25.000
exactly what they Yeah, they don't know how to sound

764
00:46:25.000 --> 00:46:27.360
them out, but they know like what that road is

765
00:46:27.519 --> 00:46:32.400
or whatever. Yeah, it's tough because I mean if you

766
00:46:32.639 --> 00:46:35.360
one of them's for it was now he's fifty, so

767
00:46:35.639 --> 00:46:40.320
like fifty years old and he's functionally illiterate, And it's

768
00:46:40.360 --> 00:46:43.199
one of those things where, like being alive that long,

769
00:46:43.280 --> 00:46:45.880
you pick things up. You just can't sit down and

770
00:46:45.880 --> 00:46:48.440
read a book. It's impossible, Yeah, for him to, I

771
00:46:48.440 --> 00:46:52.639
mean he would feel it was impossible. So I appreciated

772
00:46:52.639 --> 00:46:55.960
that little reference because some people just never especially back then,

773
00:46:56.079 --> 00:46:58.079
I mean just yeah, they never get to learn to read.

774
00:46:58.239 --> 00:47:03.800
Yeah, And it just added that layer of understanding to

775
00:47:04.039 --> 00:47:09.880
his character. But then the tone shifts a little bit

776
00:47:10.559 --> 00:47:16.079
because they want Becky to show off the shirt and

777
00:47:16.440 --> 00:47:20.639
she she tells them like, Okay, I'll change into the shirt,

778
00:47:20.639 --> 00:47:24.000
but you guys have to turn around, and they both

779
00:47:24.039 --> 00:47:29.039
turn around. Henry stays put, but Otis tries to get

780
00:47:29.079 --> 00:47:31.280
a peak of her while she's like just in her

781
00:47:31.400 --> 00:47:34.559
just in her bra And that's when we start to

782
00:47:34.639 --> 00:47:40.880
realize that Otis is just kind of creepy with her, just.

783
00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:45.440
Not but with her in particular.

784
00:47:47.639 --> 00:47:51.199
So so that kind of like that that starts the

785
00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:56.800
understanding of like, Okay, he may have like some some

786
00:47:58.000 --> 00:48:02.199
dark feelings toward her, yeah, and she didn't, you know,

787
00:48:02.239 --> 00:48:05.199
like kind of shuts it down. But Henry really steps

788
00:48:05.280 --> 00:48:09.559
up and like is the one that like like pushes

789
00:48:09.639 --> 00:48:14.079
him so that he turns back around. So again we

790
00:48:14.159 --> 00:48:17.760
start to get some more about Henry's character that he's

791
00:48:17.840 --> 00:48:23.440
really stepping up as Becky's protector. So we start to

792
00:48:24.320 --> 00:48:28.159
I don't know, I started to feel kind of like

793
00:48:30.480 --> 00:48:32.599
again he was in he was more of an anti

794
00:48:32.679 --> 00:48:35.519
hero at this point because you start to feel like

795
00:48:35.719 --> 00:48:43.800
he's Becky's protector. But then she encourages the guys to

796
00:48:43.880 --> 00:48:46.519
go out and have a fun guy's night out.

797
00:48:46.719 --> 00:48:48.519
Yeah, well she cleans up because she had made them

798
00:48:48.519 --> 00:48:51.559
a nice fish for dinner and you know, to celebrate,

799
00:48:51.599 --> 00:48:53.880
which is the other thing too. Before we get into

800
00:48:53.920 --> 00:48:58.400
the guys dine out, you mentioned like when they're all

801
00:48:58.400 --> 00:49:00.360
hanging out and stuff, it really does come off kind

802
00:49:00.400 --> 00:49:04.039
of natural, and you know, her cooking them all dinner

803
00:49:04.039 --> 00:49:06.239
to like show how grateful she is that she can

804
00:49:06.320 --> 00:49:08.840
crash with them even though they live in a slum

805
00:49:09.079 --> 00:49:12.000
by the way. Oh yeah, if you've never seen the movie,

806
00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:15.320
they live in a disgusting It is.

807
00:49:15.719 --> 00:49:19.119
A kitchen, a living room, and a bedroom.

808
00:49:19.480 --> 00:49:23.159
There's two bedrooms. Early on, Henry says he'll take the

809
00:49:23.159 --> 00:49:25.719
couch and she can take his bed. And there's the thing.

810
00:49:25.840 --> 00:49:27.840
But the bedrooms are like shoe boxes.

811
00:49:27.880 --> 00:49:30.159
Yeah, they're tiny, they're small. And on top of that,

812
00:49:30.199 --> 00:49:32.159
I mean they do not keep their home clean. I

813
00:49:32.199 --> 00:49:34.760
mean the place is bad. Anyway, but they are also

814
00:49:34.920 --> 00:49:38.760
pretty slobbish, so I don't know, it all kind of

815
00:49:38.800 --> 00:49:41.119
adds to the ambiance. But her, you know, I just

816
00:49:41.119 --> 00:49:43.719
found it kind of adorably wholesome that she like cooks

817
00:49:43.760 --> 00:49:46.719
them dinner to celebrate and then says, no, I'll clean up.

818
00:49:46.719 --> 00:49:49.079
You guys, go get some drinks, have a good time, like,

819
00:49:49.519 --> 00:49:53.000
you know, thank you, guys. And do they have a

820
00:49:53.039 --> 00:49:53.559
good time?

821
00:49:54.079 --> 00:49:54.360
Boy?

822
00:49:54.480 --> 00:49:58.159
Howdy do they? And we'll talk about you left way

823
00:49:58.199 --> 00:50:01.039
too hard at that. We'll talk about that right after this.

824
00:50:14.559 --> 00:50:19.760
So Henry and Otis go out for a drive and

825
00:50:19.920 --> 00:50:24.800
get some beers, get some smokes, and pretty much immediately

826
00:50:25.119 --> 00:50:29.880
decide to pick up some hookers. And you know, a

827
00:50:31.159 --> 00:50:34.559
park around in a dark alley, as one does.

828
00:50:35.079 --> 00:50:39.440
Well, yeah, and when in Chicago, visit our dark alleys.

829
00:50:41.639 --> 00:50:46.880
And they're having a fun time, each in their own way,

830
00:50:47.880 --> 00:50:55.320
the problem being that Henry's way of employing a woman

831
00:50:55.440 --> 00:51:02.400
of the night is a little less conventional, and Otis's

832
00:51:02.480 --> 00:51:06.599
hooker in the front seat, she like kind of notices

833
00:51:07.400 --> 00:51:11.320
that in the back seat the girl is now screaming

834
00:51:11.400 --> 00:51:16.239
and gargling because she's being choked to death, and she

835
00:51:16.679 --> 00:51:22.880
rightfully starts freaking out and so then Otis he starts

836
00:51:22.960 --> 00:51:27.079
freaking out, and he grabs his hooker and starts strangling her,

837
00:51:27.440 --> 00:51:31.599
and so as like a bonding exercise. I guess they

838
00:51:31.599 --> 00:51:34.119
both kill their hookers and then dump them out.

839
00:51:33.960 --> 00:51:37.800
Of the well. Henry breaks their necks. Oh that's right. Yeah, yeah,

840
00:51:37.800 --> 00:51:40.719
because he kills the girl in the back, which isn't

841
00:51:40.760 --> 00:51:43.280
like super obvious, but then he just reaches over all

842
00:51:43.280 --> 00:51:45.400
Otis is like fighting with the girl and he just

843
00:51:45.440 --> 00:51:47.599
snaps her neck. And Otis's face.

844
00:51:48.039 --> 00:51:50.519
Yeah, he he's mortified.

845
00:51:50.599 --> 00:51:54.320
Yeah, he's completely in shock. His eyes are bulging out

846
00:51:54.320 --> 00:51:57.280
of his head. And Henry's just like opens the door.

847
00:51:57.320 --> 00:51:59.360
He dumps one of them out, dumps the other one out,

848
00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:01.599
moves them away from the car, a bitten to the

849
00:52:01.639 --> 00:52:04.280
edge of the alley, and Otis is just staring him.

850
00:52:04.280 --> 00:52:07.880
He's like, come on, like okay, come on, and I'll drive,

851
00:52:07.960 --> 00:52:10.639
you know, like, let's go, and they drive out of there.

852
00:52:11.320 --> 00:52:13.199
He doesn't even I actually made it sound like he

853
00:52:13.280 --> 00:52:16.559
had more of an impetus to get out right away.

854
00:52:16.599 --> 00:52:19.239
It was more just like, well, come on, let's go,

855
00:52:19.400 --> 00:52:22.400
like this is what we do now, and Otis is just, yeah,

856
00:52:22.400 --> 00:52:26.119
he's just terrified and if I remember correctly. Right after that,

857
00:52:26.679 --> 00:52:28.239
it cuts to them and they're just sitting in the

858
00:52:28.280 --> 00:52:32.400
car and Henry's eating a burger and fries in the

859
00:52:32.440 --> 00:52:34.760
car and drinking a cup of coffee. Yeah.

860
00:52:34.800 --> 00:52:37.840
Well, Otis has got like the thousand yard stare going on.

861
00:52:38.239 --> 00:52:44.199
Yeah, And this exchange is really interesting because Otis is

862
00:52:44.239 --> 00:52:48.360
just kind of like, you just killed him, and he's like,

863
00:52:48.599 --> 00:52:52.440
so what you know. He's like, you've done this before.

864
00:52:52.480 --> 00:52:55.719
He's like yeah, And I think Otis said something like

865
00:52:55.760 --> 00:52:57.480
you know, or he says to Otis He's like, you've

866
00:52:57.480 --> 00:53:00.400
never killed before. He's like, well, yeah, yeah, but it

867
00:53:00.480 --> 00:53:04.840
was it was different. How was it? Henry's adases like

868
00:53:04.840 --> 00:53:07.280
how was it different? And you get the idea. They

869
00:53:07.320 --> 00:53:09.800
never really spell it out, but you get the idea.

870
00:53:09.840 --> 00:53:14.079
Otis may have killed somebody in a fight, or killed

871
00:53:14.119 --> 00:53:18.079
somebody in a you know, dispute robbery. I mean, I'm

872
00:53:18.119 --> 00:53:21.480
not saying that like it was mutual combat passion. Yeah,

873
00:53:21.639 --> 00:53:23.880
I don't think he ever killed anybody for the sake

874
00:53:23.920 --> 00:53:27.920
of killing. He may have killed somebody for personal gain

875
00:53:28.320 --> 00:53:31.079
or you know whatever. I definitely don't think he ever

876
00:53:31.159 --> 00:53:35.079
killed anybody in a clean version of self defense. Yeah,

877
00:53:35.199 --> 00:53:37.760
because remember, kids, it's not self defense. If you leave

878
00:53:37.800 --> 00:53:40.880
the bar, get a gun, come back in and shoot them,

879
00:53:41.320 --> 00:53:46.760
it's not That was a case in Florida, Oh god, Florida. Well,

880
00:53:46.800 --> 00:53:49.000
there was a ruling that set the precedent that that

881
00:53:49.320 --> 00:53:52.320
is not self defense in I want to say Wisconsin,

882
00:53:52.480 --> 00:53:56.679
Mina or Minnesota, like in the nineties. But recently a

883
00:53:56.719 --> 00:53:58.599
woman left and got a weapon and came back and

884
00:53:58.639 --> 00:54:01.639
attacked her x I think it was. And yeah, they

885
00:54:01.639 --> 00:54:04.360
were like, that is not self defense. You literally fleed

886
00:54:04.400 --> 00:54:06.559
the scene of the conflict and then returned to the

887
00:54:06.599 --> 00:54:11.000
conflict with a weapon. That is making the conflict worse.

888
00:54:12.039 --> 00:54:13.639
We'll say it. Really, So they tried to make the

889
00:54:13.719 --> 00:54:15.199
argument I won't go into this ton, but they tried

890
00:54:15.199 --> 00:54:16.280
to make the argument that it was like, but what

891
00:54:16.280 --> 00:54:17.800
about the standard ground law? And they were like, that

892
00:54:17.880 --> 00:54:19.880
is not what it is. That is not what it is.

893
00:54:20.039 --> 00:54:23.360
You do not flee and then re engage. Re engaging

894
00:54:23.840 --> 00:54:29.960
ends the argument of self defense. Oh my god. Anyway, So,

895
00:54:30.199 --> 00:54:32.199
but no, so Otis has made it clear that he's

896
00:54:32.239 --> 00:54:35.280
never been a cold blooded killer. Mm hmm. He's probably

897
00:54:35.320 --> 00:54:38.480
every other thing there is, yeah, but not not that.

898
00:54:39.039 --> 00:54:41.320
But as Henry talks, to him, it kind of kind

899
00:54:41.320 --> 00:54:43.800
of feels better. Yeah.

900
00:54:44.119 --> 00:54:47.519
Well, the thing that Henry says, I don't know, I

901
00:54:48.119 --> 00:54:54.280
found it chilling was Henry says, the thing is, any

902
00:54:54.320 --> 00:54:57.840
time you kill someone, it's always it always comes down

903
00:54:57.880 --> 00:55:01.880
to your life for theirs. And that's the thing that

904
00:55:01.920 --> 00:55:07.320
it like clicks for Otis, and it was chilling for me.

905
00:55:07.800 --> 00:55:10.760
One because of Henry's conviction.

906
00:55:11.440 --> 00:55:14.280
Yeah no, he seems like he truly believes what he's saying.

907
00:55:14.880 --> 00:55:21.079
And then two that like totally changes Otis's mind. And

908
00:55:21.119 --> 00:55:23.760
then for the rest of the movie it's almost like

909
00:55:23.840 --> 00:55:25.920
Otis is chasing that high.

910
00:55:26.119 --> 00:55:29.639
Yes afterward, yeah, no, without a doubt.

911
00:55:29.960 --> 00:55:33.719
And and they become like they're they're egging each other on.

912
00:55:34.119 --> 00:55:40.199
And whereas before, like Henry was pretty calculating and methodical,

913
00:55:40.800 --> 00:55:46.280
he's trying to teach Otis to be calculating and methodical,

914
00:55:46.320 --> 00:55:49.239
but Otis is just going off. He just wants to

915
00:55:49.320 --> 00:55:50.159
kill now.

916
00:55:50.239 --> 00:55:52.519
Well, and it seems like, I mean, for whatever version

917
00:55:52.519 --> 00:55:54.880
of it there may be that Otis is or that

918
00:55:55.079 --> 00:55:58.039
Henry is in some way fond of Otis, he considers

919
00:55:58.079 --> 00:56:02.559
him a friend and a confidante in whatever way he's capable.

920
00:56:02.760 --> 00:56:06.960
I mean, because you could talk for hours about Henry's

921
00:56:07.519 --> 00:56:12.639
layers or whatever. But my favorite way that they get

922
00:56:12.679 --> 00:56:15.280
across that Otis feels better about it all and that

923
00:56:15.360 --> 00:56:18.519
he's starting to shift away from the shock. I just

924
00:56:18.559 --> 00:56:21.480
love this because it's great storytelling. And again, this might

925
00:56:21.559 --> 00:56:23.719
be in the script or this could have been improvisation,

926
00:56:23.760 --> 00:56:26.559
because these actors are all really good. And on top

927
00:56:26.599 --> 00:56:28.599
of that, a lot of these scenes I don't know

928
00:56:28.639 --> 00:56:30.800
if you noticed this, because it's a very engrossing movie,

929
00:56:30.840 --> 00:56:32.599
but there are a lot of scenes that are minimal takes.

930
00:56:32.639 --> 00:56:35.840
They're one shots for really long periods of time, and

931
00:56:35.880 --> 00:56:39.239
that I know from experience that leaves tons of room

932
00:56:39.559 --> 00:56:41.920
for minor improvisation because you don't have to worry about

933
00:56:42.000 --> 00:56:43.599
matching in the coverage.

934
00:56:43.800 --> 00:56:44.119
M hm.

935
00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:49.000
So after that, Henry says you want to fry, and

936
00:56:49.400 --> 00:56:51.960
he eats one, and then Henry explains more of what

937
00:56:52.000 --> 00:56:54.960
you were saying, and then after Otis listens all that,

938
00:56:55.000 --> 00:56:56.599
he just takes the whole bag of fries and just

939
00:56:56.639 --> 00:56:59.679
starts eating them. Yeah, And I feel like that says

940
00:56:59.679 --> 00:57:02.000
a lot because that tells you like his appetites back,

941
00:57:02.000 --> 00:57:05.320
which means he's no longer mortified. Yeah, And because I

942
00:57:05.320 --> 00:57:06.519
mean if you look at Otis, I mean, that's a

943
00:57:06.519 --> 00:57:09.760
man that never met a French fry. He didn't eat.

944
00:57:09.880 --> 00:57:11.559
That's all I'm saying. Never met a fried potato he

945
00:57:11.559 --> 00:57:15.400
didn't eat, or any pet. Listen, that is a fried

946
00:57:15.400 --> 00:57:19.239
potato eating son of a bitch anyway. But no, so,

947
00:57:19.280 --> 00:57:21.400
and this is this is where the film really kind

948
00:57:21.400 --> 00:57:25.920
of reaches its apex of or not apex, but really

949
00:57:26.039 --> 00:57:31.000
reaches its oh what's the term like, It gets its footing,

950
00:57:31.320 --> 00:57:33.480
like stride, that's the word I was looking for. It

951
00:57:33.679 --> 00:57:38.559
gets its stride for being depraved. Yeah. Yeah, Because now

952
00:57:38.559 --> 00:57:42.559
that Otis knows what Henry does, and Henry's willing to

953
00:57:42.639 --> 00:57:45.800
let Otis kind of be apart, all bets are kind

954
00:57:45.800 --> 00:57:51.519
of off, and we'll talk about those bets and the

955
00:57:51.559 --> 00:57:55.559
importance of testing electronics before you buy them, among other things,

956
00:57:56.679 --> 00:57:57.360
right after this.

957
00:58:11.039 --> 00:58:19.000
So after an exciting evening, right, Becky's out at work

958
00:58:19.199 --> 00:58:26.119
at the salon, Henry's off doing whatever it is he does,

959
00:58:26.760 --> 00:58:32.320
and Otis is at home just watching TV and TV's

960
00:58:32.360 --> 00:58:36.079
not getting great reception, so he sits there and fights

961
00:58:36.079 --> 00:58:38.199
with it, and, being the hot head that he is,

962
00:58:38.320 --> 00:58:42.039
eventually decides that kicking the screen is the thing to do.

963
00:58:42.239 --> 00:58:45.519
Hey, I mean worked for Elvis alreadys shot it, but

964
00:58:45.760 --> 00:58:50.360
whatever I mean still works. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and one

965
00:58:50.360 --> 00:58:56.280
thing about Henry is time is a little loose. Yeah,

966
00:58:56.320 --> 00:59:01.320
like we don't really know how long went by from

967
00:59:01.360 --> 00:59:06.400
when they killed those hookers too. Then I would assume

968
00:59:06.440 --> 00:59:10.119
a day or two, but we had there's no real context. Yeah,

969
00:59:10.519 --> 00:59:11.519
all we know a couple of weeks.

970
00:59:11.559 --> 00:59:13.679
Yeah, all we know is some time has passed.

971
00:59:13.800 --> 00:59:14.960
Yeah. Yeah.

972
00:59:15.719 --> 00:59:19.840
So he kicks the TV and you know, shatters it

973
00:59:19.880 --> 00:59:23.280
and it's smoking, and now he's fuming because now he's

974
00:59:23.320 --> 00:59:25.800
got like a totally broken TV instead of one that

975
00:59:25.960 --> 00:59:27.400
just doesn't have great reception.

976
00:59:27.760 --> 00:59:31.679
The vertical hold was not working, okay.

977
00:59:32.320 --> 00:59:37.559
Gosh, and Henry walks in and he's just like.

978
00:59:37.719 --> 00:59:41.639
You broke the TV. It broke. It sounds like Steve Austin,

979
00:59:41.760 --> 00:59:43.639
And I can't sound like Steve Austin when I want

980
00:59:43.639 --> 00:59:44.679
to sound like Steve Austin.

981
00:59:46.480 --> 00:59:50.480
So the key to doing the stee your Steve Austin.

982
00:59:50.159 --> 00:59:52.320
To Henry Lee Luke or Henry from Henry forts're a

983
00:59:52.320 --> 00:59:56.679
serial killer, give me a hell ya, it's close. I'm

984
00:59:56.719 --> 00:59:58.960
also afraid to wreck my voice, but yeah, don't, don't

985
00:59:59.039 --> 01:00:02.800
hurt yourself. Thank you. But so yeah, Henry's like, you

986
01:00:02.800 --> 01:00:05.679
busted the TV up, you know, and he's like, well

987
01:00:05.679 --> 01:00:11.199
it wasn't working right, it's a great estage. So he's like, well,

988
01:00:11.320 --> 01:00:13.920
let's go get your new TV then, and he's like

989
01:00:14.559 --> 01:00:19.199
all right, he's all excited. So they go to what

990
01:00:19.239 --> 01:00:25.159
you call the uh no somebody shop the fence.

991
01:00:25.840 --> 01:00:28.559
I've never heard it. Heard it called a no somebody shop.

992
01:00:28.679 --> 01:00:33.599
Really no, oh man. So well then for the uninitiated,

993
01:00:34.000 --> 01:00:36.599
that's where you go to get the finest in merchandise

994
01:00:36.679 --> 01:00:39.159
that falls off of trucks but manages to be completely

995
01:00:39.239 --> 01:00:40.480
unscathed in every way.

996
01:00:40.679 --> 01:00:43.719
Yeah, yeah, that's what I assumed. That's what I assume.

997
01:00:43.840 --> 01:00:47.199
Yeah, So it's it's it looks like it is a

998
01:00:47.280 --> 01:00:50.320
back room of an actual business. We don't really see, yeah,

999
01:00:50.360 --> 01:00:52.239
where it is, but they go in through like a

1000
01:00:52.280 --> 01:00:55.280
garage door, basically like a loading bay door. And the

1001
01:00:55.320 --> 01:00:58.960
guy literally is this very rotund gentleman sitting behind a

1002
01:00:59.039 --> 01:01:02.840
desk in a way white shirt, and there's just electronics

1003
01:01:02.960 --> 01:01:04.840
all around him, and he's got.

1004
01:01:04.639 --> 01:01:05.840
This sort of ceiling.

1005
01:01:05.960 --> 01:01:09.199
Yeah, I mean some are out, some are in boxes,

1006
01:01:10.119 --> 01:01:12.199
and he has a little remote and he presses it

1007
01:01:12.280 --> 01:01:16.239
and closes the garage door behind them. And I have

1008
01:01:16.320 --> 01:01:21.280
to say, in my opinion, that guy is a highlight

1009
01:01:21.320 --> 01:01:25.360
of this film. I love him too. I mean, don't

1010
01:01:25.400 --> 01:01:29.039
get me wrong, he is meant to be hated in

1011
01:01:29.119 --> 01:01:34.039
it so much because he's so over the top. Yeah, Like,

1012
01:01:34.920 --> 01:01:40.559
nobody onlike without real provocation, is this much of a prick?

1013
01:01:41.599 --> 01:01:46.199
Nobody like this dude looks like like he is so

1014
01:01:47.039 --> 01:01:50.039
angry because they come in and they say, we're looking

1015
01:01:50.079 --> 01:01:55.159
for a TV and he's like, okay, well what are

1016
01:01:55.199 --> 01:01:57.320
you thinking. He's like, I've got fifty bucks. He's like,

1017
01:01:57.639 --> 01:01:59.320
I could tell you this one right here, and it's

1018
01:01:59.320 --> 01:02:01.440
a smaller T and it's black and white. And he's like, oh,

1019
01:02:01.480 --> 01:02:03.760
black and white, you know, black and white. He's like,

1020
01:02:03.880 --> 01:02:06.719
what do you expect for fifty dollars? And I gotta admit,

1021
01:02:06.800 --> 01:02:08.679
you know, in the eighties, I mean I was born

1022
01:02:08.719 --> 01:02:11.079
in eighty six, so this film came out like actually

1023
01:02:11.119 --> 01:02:12.719
I think it screened the month I was born, which

1024
01:02:12.760 --> 01:02:18.480
explains a lot. But TVs were not that cheap. I

1025
01:02:18.480 --> 01:02:20.079
mean now you can walk into a Best Buy and

1026
01:02:20.079 --> 01:02:22.760
get a seventy nine dollars TV, you know, But like

1027
01:02:22.840 --> 01:02:26.079
back then I mean TV's VCRs, they were expensive. In fact,

1028
01:02:26.079 --> 01:02:29.079
I remember my first VCR when it finally died and

1029
01:02:29.119 --> 01:02:30.760
I had to get a new one at like fifteen

1030
01:02:30.840 --> 01:02:33.880
years I was fifteen years old. The copyright thing on it,

1031
01:02:33.960 --> 01:02:36.800
the like manufacturer date was nineteen eighty three, so it

1032
01:02:36.840 --> 01:02:42.440
was two years older than I was. So anyway, but

1033
01:02:42.639 --> 01:02:44.760
so he's like he starts the moment he says like,

1034
01:02:44.760 --> 01:02:46.480
I want to look at color, he just starts going, oh,

1035
01:02:46.599 --> 01:02:48.719
I'm so sorry. He just starts being a prick.

1036
01:02:48.559 --> 01:02:50.440
Immediately, super condescending.

1037
01:02:50.559 --> 01:02:53.199
This guy like he must wake up in the morning

1038
01:02:53.280 --> 01:02:56.880
and fill his cheerios bowl with piss and get mad

1039
01:02:56.920 --> 01:03:00.559
when people throw milk at him. I mean, like pissing

1040
01:03:00.599 --> 01:03:03.880
his cheerios ain't enough. I mean, he is so angry

1041
01:03:03.920 --> 01:03:06.400
and insulting. He's like, oh, you're a smart one, aren't you.

1042
01:03:06.599 --> 01:03:09.000
Like he's just so he's just.

1043
01:03:09.159 --> 01:03:12.880
So frizzing, so antagonistic.

1044
01:03:13.079 --> 01:03:14.480
Yeah yeah.

1045
01:03:14.639 --> 01:03:20.039
And the thing that really seals it is they're there,

1046
01:03:20.119 --> 01:03:22.639
they want a bigger one and one that's color.

1047
01:03:22.480 --> 01:03:24.440
And and and they insist on testing you.

1048
01:03:24.559 --> 01:03:27.480
Yeah, they want to test it. And then he gets

1049
01:03:27.559 --> 01:03:31.280
really mean about that, and he's like, just take the

1050
01:03:31.559 --> 01:03:34.559
fifty dollars one, give me your money and go, and

1051
01:03:34.639 --> 01:03:35.639
it's well.

1052
01:03:35.679 --> 01:03:37.920
And when he's selling them on stuff because he shows

1053
01:03:37.960 --> 01:03:39.760
them this really nice color TV, but it's like one

1054
01:03:39.840 --> 01:03:42.440
fifty or two hundred bucks or something like that, and

1055
01:03:42.840 --> 01:03:44.320
there's all you know, he wants to play it. He's like, what,

1056
01:03:44.480 --> 01:03:46.880
you don't trust me, which is hilarious because this guy

1057
01:03:47.000 --> 01:03:48.800
is like such a sack of shit. I mean, he's

1058
01:03:48.800 --> 01:03:52.239
just a bad dude because like his room, it's probably

1059
01:03:52.239 --> 01:03:54.800
in the back of like a repair shop would be

1060
01:03:54.800 --> 01:03:57.039
my guess, and he's running the fence out of it

1061
01:03:57.440 --> 01:03:59.679
because he has all the stuff to fix electronics in

1062
01:03:59.719 --> 01:04:01.800
the back, which would make sense if you were gonna

1063
01:04:02.079 --> 01:04:05.639
fence you know, stolen or whatever goods is like some

1064
01:04:05.719 --> 01:04:07.719
would show up broken, so fix a few of them,

1065
01:04:07.920 --> 01:04:11.360
get him out of there. Yeah. But the reason I

1066
01:04:11.360 --> 01:04:13.800
bring it up is he mentions like this is you know,

1067
01:04:14.159 --> 01:04:18.519
a really great TV. And then I'll throw in this

1068
01:04:18.679 --> 01:04:21.119
VCR or this cam quarder, which tells you how old

1069
01:04:21.159 --> 01:04:23.159
the movie is. I remember explaining that to you. I

1070
01:04:23.199 --> 01:04:25.239
was like, did you notice he had to tell them

1071
01:04:25.360 --> 01:04:29.480
what the word cam quorder meant. Yeah, So they're like camcorders,

1072
01:04:29.519 --> 01:04:33.000
like it's a video camera and a recorder. You just

1073
01:04:33.000 --> 01:04:36.679
put the tape in and you're ready to go. And

1074
01:04:36.719 --> 01:04:38.360
they're both kind of like, oh, I notice says like

1075
01:04:38.360 --> 01:04:40.199
you can make your own movies on day. He's like, yes,

1076
01:04:40.360 --> 01:04:43.440
that is what it's for. And I was like, man,

1077
01:04:43.800 --> 01:04:47.480
he's such a jerk. So he offers to throw that

1078
01:04:47.519 --> 01:04:50.400
in for five hundred. It's worth a thousand. The TV

1079
01:04:50.559 --> 01:04:52.480
is like two hundred or whatever. It's worth five hundred

1080
01:04:52.519 --> 01:04:54.599
or whatever. So he says like yeah, you know, and

1081
01:04:54.639 --> 01:04:56.400
they're like, we don't have enough money. So he gets

1082
01:04:56.679 --> 01:04:59.039
he gets livid with them, like you were saying, like

1083
01:04:59.079 --> 01:05:01.159
he gets lived with the about you. Why why did

1084
01:05:01.239 --> 01:05:03.079
you tell me that to begin with? Why'd you waste

1085
01:05:03.079 --> 01:05:05.599
so much of my time? Just give me your fifty dollars,

1086
01:05:05.639 --> 01:05:09.719
take the set and get the fuck out. It's it's

1087
01:05:09.800 --> 01:05:14.760
so he's so angry from the most like that's not Chicago,

1088
01:05:14.920 --> 01:05:15.599
that's New York.

1089
01:05:16.880 --> 01:05:20.719
That's see I that's I'm glad you mentioned that, because

1090
01:05:21.440 --> 01:05:24.199
the whole time they were interacting with him, I was like,

1091
01:05:24.480 --> 01:05:27.559
did they suddenly transport to the Bronx, Like what the

1092
01:05:27.639 --> 01:05:28.280
fuck happened?

1093
01:05:28.559 --> 01:05:31.719
You know, he's queen's mean. Ah. No, yeah, he's queen's mean.

1094
01:05:32.000 --> 01:05:34.639
Uh he grew up on a freaking fire escape. No

1095
01:05:34.679 --> 01:05:38.360
but a no, he's he's so mean. So finally they've

1096
01:05:38.360 --> 01:05:42.800
had enough, the Otis grabs him and starts choking him.

1097
01:05:43.320 --> 01:05:44.280
He puts him in a choke hold.

1098
01:05:44.320 --> 01:05:46.960
Anything right, Yeah, Otis puts him in a choke hold,

1099
01:05:47.000 --> 01:05:51.079
and Henry grabs the soldering iron on his desk and

1100
01:05:51.199 --> 01:05:53.199
just starts stabbing him with.

1101
01:05:53.159 --> 01:05:56.400
It, and it appears it's on. Yeah, And the way

1102
01:05:56.480 --> 01:05:59.480
they sell that it's on and it hurts is the music.

1103
01:06:01.320 --> 01:06:05.400
Every time he gets stabbed, the uh synthesizer goes, eh,

1104
01:06:05.679 --> 01:06:08.559
like this really high pitched thing, and it's I mean,

1105
01:06:08.639 --> 01:06:12.000
like they're stabbing him and stabbing him, it's it's heinous.

1106
01:06:12.440 --> 01:06:15.440
But then after he's been stabbed and he's all like, uh,

1107
01:06:15.639 --> 01:06:18.960
they slam the TV set that the cheaper set over

1108
01:06:19.000 --> 01:06:24.599
his head. And so this is why this movie is legendary,

1109
01:06:25.320 --> 01:06:30.559
beloved and quoted is because it has these little, highly

1110
01:06:30.679 --> 01:06:34.360
memorable things. The fact that after the TV's busted over

1111
01:06:34.400 --> 01:06:38.079
his head, Henry looks at him as Otis plug it in.

1112
01:06:39.280 --> 01:06:43.599
Everyone remembers Otis plug it in, you know, like it's

1113
01:06:43.719 --> 01:06:46.800
just and that's that's the other reason I think people

1114
01:06:46.880 --> 01:06:48.639
get disturbed by this movie is because they kind of

1115
01:06:48.639 --> 01:06:52.760
make it fun yeah at times, Yeah, which is a

1116
01:06:52.760 --> 01:06:55.360
classic move when you want the audience to really understand

1117
01:06:55.400 --> 01:06:57.559
what's going on. I mean, just watch Boogie Nights, just

1118
01:06:57.639 --> 01:07:01.440
watch Casino Good. Really, almost any Scorsese movie. He makes

1119
01:07:01.480 --> 01:07:05.079
the first half how fun crime is or how fun

1120
01:07:05.400 --> 01:07:07.920
war is, and then the second half is, oh, but

1121
01:07:08.039 --> 01:07:10.840
actually it's this, and it helps you kind of understand

1122
01:07:10.880 --> 01:07:14.719
how somebody could be involved. Yeah, although in this case

1123
01:07:14.719 --> 01:07:17.519
it's a little it's it's much more less intense than that.

1124
01:07:17.599 --> 01:07:20.320
But they plug it in. Of course, the TV like

1125
01:07:20.360 --> 01:07:25.400
makes the guy's head gush blood and sparks everywhere, and

1126
01:07:25.440 --> 01:07:28.639
wouldn't you know it, next scene they have a brand

1127
01:07:28.639 --> 01:07:35.199
new TV and a cam corder. It. Sometimes life is good.

1128
01:07:35.360 --> 01:07:40.480
Sometimes it just works out. And we'll talk about how

1129
01:07:40.519 --> 01:07:42.480
that worked out. Right after this.

1130
01:07:56.159 --> 01:07:59.440
So otis he's got a check in with his pearl officer.

1131
01:07:59.599 --> 01:08:01.719
Oh yeah, because I mean he's on parole.

1132
01:08:01.400 --> 01:08:03.599
Of course, because he just got out of jail.

1133
01:08:03.599 --> 01:08:06.480
Reason well, And and we figure out basically that's why

1134
01:08:06.519 --> 01:08:08.440
he has that job at the gas station instead of

1135
01:08:08.480 --> 01:08:12.079
just slinging drugs, and he's got to have something for

1136
01:08:12.119 --> 01:08:13.880
the parole officer because he even tells him, like, how

1137
01:08:14.119 --> 01:08:16.600
are you working there five days a week? Every day?

1138
01:08:16.640 --> 01:08:19.600
And he's like, nah, two three days. And the parole

1139
01:08:19.600 --> 01:08:21.680
officers to something I thought was hilarious. He says, well,

1140
01:08:21.720 --> 01:08:23.960
if they take you down to two or less, let

1141
01:08:23.960 --> 01:08:27.239
me know. And I'm like, wait, two or less. I

1142
01:08:27.279 --> 01:08:30.479
feel like one of those numbers is they fire you? Right.

1143
01:08:31.800 --> 01:08:33.960
He's like, let me know and i'll uh, you know,

1144
01:08:33.960 --> 01:08:35.960
I'll see what we can do for you. Yeah. So,

1145
01:08:36.239 --> 01:08:38.840
and the parole officer is completely disinterested.

1146
01:08:39.319 --> 01:08:42.760
Yeah, he like is sitting there talking about like, oh,

1147
01:08:42.800 --> 01:08:44.199
are you doing this or are you doing that? And

1148
01:08:44.199 --> 01:08:46.640
then takes a call and is like, actually, I've got

1149
01:08:46.680 --> 01:08:47.840
to cut this short because.

1150
01:08:47.600 --> 01:08:49.479
I've got to go to like pick up my daughter

1151
01:08:49.600 --> 01:08:52.600
or whatever. No, it's even better than that, he says,

1152
01:08:52.880 --> 01:08:54.600
I'm sorry to cut the short, but my son is

1153
01:08:54.600 --> 01:08:58.239
getting is getting orthodontic surgery, so I've got to take him.

1154
01:08:59.079 --> 01:09:01.479
It's just so specific, it's perfect.

1155
01:09:01.800 --> 01:09:02.279
Yeah.

1156
01:09:02.399 --> 01:09:06.840
I mean, my dad's parole officer was nicer than that,

1157
01:09:07.119 --> 01:09:10.520
I mean a little bit more attentive. So I only

1158
01:09:10.520 --> 01:09:13.800
met him the one time. It was only moderately awkward.

1159
01:09:13.800 --> 01:09:16.520
My dad seemed to like him. Although I would do

1160
01:09:16.560 --> 01:09:18.319
that too if I was if I had a parole officer,

1161
01:09:18.359 --> 01:09:24.399
I'd probably be super nice. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah so but.

1162
01:09:23.680 --> 01:09:28.119
But yeah, otis, being the fine upstanding citizen that he is,

1163
01:09:29.600 --> 01:09:32.960
walked out of the meeting with his parole officer, then

1164
01:09:33.079 --> 01:09:36.560
immediately gets into a stranger's car and does a drug deal.

1165
01:09:37.439 --> 01:09:39.800
Yeah. No, no, no, it's his own car.

1166
01:09:40.000 --> 01:09:41.560
Oh it's yeah, it's his own car.

1167
01:09:41.439 --> 01:09:44.000
For Henry's car. I only have one car, Yeah, like

1168
01:09:44.039 --> 01:09:47.279
they share it or something. But this teenage boy who

1169
01:09:47.359 --> 01:09:50.479
he was like creeping out at the gas station to

1170
01:09:50.840 --> 01:09:53.399
buy weed from him. Yeah, he sits down in the

1171
01:09:53.439 --> 01:09:56.479
car with him, and he sells in the bag of weed,

1172
01:09:56.800 --> 01:09:58.960
and he says, you want to try it first, and

1173
01:09:59.000 --> 01:10:01.079
offers him the joint. Yeah.

1174
01:10:01.119 --> 01:10:04.800
And so they're sitting there like passing the joint back

1175
01:10:04.800 --> 01:10:09.960
and forth, and otis, again being the kind of great

1176
01:10:10.000 --> 01:10:13.039
guy that he is, puts his hand on the thigh

1177
01:10:13.119 --> 01:10:16.119
of this teenage kid and starts like feeling him up.

1178
01:10:16.319 --> 01:10:19.000
Well, he in the defense of that teenage kid, he

1179
01:10:19.039 --> 01:10:23.119
had cat like reflexes. Can he immediately the moment his

1180
01:10:23.479 --> 01:10:27.199
hand goes on his thigh, he just haymakers him right

1181
01:10:27.239 --> 01:10:31.640
in the nose, which makes sense because he already knows

1182
01:10:31.720 --> 01:10:34.920
Otis is a creep. Yeah, so I can't imagine he

1183
01:10:35.000 --> 01:10:38.239
got in there and was like, I'm just chilling out, relaxing,

1184
01:10:38.359 --> 01:10:41.079
buying drugs from that guy who wags his tongue at me,

1185
01:10:41.920 --> 01:10:44.760
you know. So he's ready to knock his block off.

1186
01:10:44.800 --> 01:10:47.479
And I mean, and it's not like on top of

1187
01:10:47.560 --> 01:10:50.359
him being a creep, I mean, is there anyone more

1188
01:10:50.359 --> 01:10:53.560
homophobic than a nineteen eighties like football player. He looked

1189
01:10:53.600 --> 01:10:56.319
like a like a football player. If I'm sure he's

1190
01:10:56.319 --> 01:10:57.479
wearing a letter jacket.

1191
01:10:57.239 --> 01:10:59.520
Yeah, he was probably not.

1192
01:10:59.720 --> 01:11:02.279
So probably he's got that puts a little extra stink

1193
01:11:02.359 --> 01:11:06.760
on it, you know. Yeah, he's not having it. But

1194
01:11:06.760 --> 01:11:10.479
but Otis is livid. Yeah, and he's back at home

1195
01:11:10.720 --> 01:11:15.720
and he's telling Henry like, I want to kill that boy. Yeah,

1196
01:11:16.079 --> 01:11:21.479
and uh do you want to tell the chilling part? Uh?

1197
01:11:21.520 --> 01:11:29.079
So Henry, instead of telling him like no or it'll

1198
01:11:29.079 --> 01:11:33.520
be fine, he says, just let it go. You don't

1199
01:11:33.800 --> 01:11:37.880
want to You don't want to try and kill him because.

1200
01:11:37.520 --> 01:11:40.279
People have seen you together. Yeah.

1201
01:11:40.319 --> 01:11:43.159
So they'll know, Like, if he goes missing, they'll know

1202
01:11:43.239 --> 01:11:47.159
it's you. They'll put it together immediately, like, oh, well

1203
01:11:47.199 --> 01:11:49.199
he was hanging out with that you know, that nineteen

1204
01:11:49.279 --> 01:11:50.840
year old kid who was hanging out with that creepy

1205
01:11:50.840 --> 01:11:54.640
guy at the auto body shop. Like, and the kid disappeared,

1206
01:11:55.279 --> 01:12:00.760
they're gonna come looking for you. So they have to

1207
01:12:00.880 --> 01:12:04.840
find some outlet for lotuses.

1208
01:12:05.680 --> 01:12:10.880
Basically tell them you want to kill somebody though, mm hmm. Yeah.

1209
01:12:11.199 --> 01:12:17.079
So they they drive down legendary Lower Whacker Drive in Chicago,

1210
01:12:17.720 --> 01:12:20.520
which is there's a road where it goes up and

1211
01:12:20.560 --> 01:12:23.159
it goes down. Okay, the upper Whacker Drive and lower

1212
01:12:23.159 --> 01:12:25.319
Whacker Drive. I don't know Chicago's super well, but I

1213
01:12:25.359 --> 01:12:29.159
remember I remember a road named Whacker. How could you not? Right?

1214
01:12:29.960 --> 01:12:32.479
So they go down into Lower Whacker Drive late at night,

1215
01:12:33.039 --> 01:12:34.640
and generally not a lot of people are going to

1216
01:12:34.680 --> 01:12:36.880
be on Lower Whacker Drive late at night because it's

1217
01:12:37.039 --> 01:12:40.000
it's pretty much for work, like for going to job sites.

1218
01:12:40.760 --> 01:12:42.720
And they pretend they have a break a car breakdown,

1219
01:12:43.960 --> 01:12:49.199
and they're baiting a trap. So sure enough, a good

1220
01:12:49.239 --> 01:12:54.560
Samaritan pulls over offers to help, and Ugh, this scene

1221
01:12:54.640 --> 01:12:58.279
is it's so brutal because it's so immediate. Yeah, he

1222
01:12:58.439 --> 01:13:01.960
just hands Otis the gun. Yeah, and uh, I'm trying

1223
01:13:01.960 --> 01:13:03.760
to remember what did he say? Do you remember what

1224
01:13:03.800 --> 01:13:06.439
he said? Was he said like Otis, do you need

1225
01:13:06.479 --> 01:13:07.880
his help? Or something like that.

1226
01:13:08.319 --> 01:13:10.520
It is something I can't remember it something like that.

1227
01:13:10.880 --> 01:13:12.760
He's like, do you need help?

1228
01:13:13.159 --> 01:13:16.319
Oh? Yeah, He's like nope, and he just shoots. Oh. Yeah,

1229
01:13:16.359 --> 01:13:18.800
he's because it's it's double on andenre. He's saying like,

1230
01:13:18.840 --> 01:13:20.560
do you need help to kill this guy? Yeah? And

1231
01:13:20.560 --> 01:13:22.760
he says nope, and he just shoots the guy dead.

1232
01:13:23.199 --> 01:13:25.680
They get in their car and they drive away. And

1233
01:13:25.800 --> 01:13:31.359
this is where Henry starts to become especially anti hero

1234
01:13:31.600 --> 01:13:36.960
y because he starts explaining how you get away with it? Yeah,

1235
01:13:37.199 --> 01:13:41.239
And this is the part that I think is super scary,

1236
01:13:41.279 --> 01:13:45.920
And you could argue that it's scarier in confessions, because

1237
01:13:45.960 --> 01:13:49.000
in confessions it's just I don't know, I just kill

1238
01:13:49.039 --> 01:13:50.800
a lot of people and then I just drive away.

1239
01:13:50.920 --> 01:13:53.279
And then I kill more people and I drive away.

1240
01:13:53.279 --> 01:13:55.520
I try not to get caught. I guess like that's

1241
01:13:55.800 --> 01:13:57.800
that's his attitude, which is also terrifying that he could

1242
01:13:57.880 --> 01:14:01.800
kill so many people with that little out of intellect, right,

1243
01:14:01.880 --> 01:14:04.680
But Henry is all about you have to use you

1244
01:14:04.720 --> 01:14:08.560
have to use a different mo. That means modus operendi.

1245
01:14:09.039 --> 01:14:11.359
I bet you didn't know I knew Latin, you know,

1246
01:14:11.520 --> 01:14:14.399
like and and so he explains to him, like, if

1247
01:14:14.399 --> 01:14:16.960
you kill somebody, you gotta you know, if you stab

1248
01:14:17.039 --> 01:14:19.800
them in the stomach, the next time, you gotta strangle him.

1249
01:14:19.800 --> 01:14:21.199
And then if you strangle the next time, you gotta

1250
01:14:21.199 --> 01:14:23.039
shoot him in the in the heart. And then the

1251
01:14:23.079 --> 01:14:25.640
next time you gotta you know, sometimes you chop them up.

1252
01:14:25.680 --> 01:14:28.520
Sometimes you don't. That way, they think you kill five

1253
01:14:28.560 --> 01:14:31.880
different people, they think there's five different murderers. Yeah, and

1254
01:14:32.600 --> 01:14:35.880
that is very I mean, it's pre Tarantino, but it's

1255
01:14:35.920 --> 01:14:39.159
a very Tarantino kind of like just laying out how

1256
01:14:39.199 --> 01:14:42.800
to do crime. But it's also really scary to imagine

1257
01:14:42.840 --> 01:14:45.600
that somebody has thought it out that much. And it

1258
01:14:45.640 --> 01:14:49.840
does make sense because generally serial killers are habitual. Yeah,

1259
01:14:49.960 --> 01:14:54.159
so him killing people in totally different ways every time

1260
01:14:54.239 --> 01:14:57.039
would make it almost impossible to connect the crimes, which

1261
01:14:57.600 --> 01:15:00.760
you know, if five homicides from five different hillers is

1262
01:15:00.800 --> 01:15:03.199
not going to be as urgent as five homicides from

1263
01:15:03.239 --> 01:15:06.560
one person. Yeah, that would make them really desperate to

1264
01:15:06.560 --> 01:15:08.399
catch you if they knew you were that you know,

1265
01:15:08.600 --> 01:15:12.039
that prolific. And Otis even says like, so, why can't

1266
01:15:12.039 --> 01:15:13.439
I use a gun again? Is like, you can't you

1267
01:15:13.439 --> 01:15:15.600
can use a gun again, just not that one, Yeah,

1268
01:15:15.720 --> 01:15:19.760
just a different kind of gun. Yeah, it's it's it's

1269
01:15:19.800 --> 01:15:22.399
wild because it's like he's taking him under his you know,

1270
01:15:22.840 --> 01:15:29.680
hellish wing and yeah, it's this is this is Yeah.

1271
01:15:29.720 --> 01:15:31.159
So this is kind of that part where he kind

1272
01:15:31.159 --> 01:15:32.760
of comes off as an anti hero because he's like

1273
01:15:32.800 --> 01:15:36.680
explaining how he bucks the system. But this is something

1274
01:15:36.720 --> 01:15:39.159
that always drove me crazy with this movie is when

1275
01:15:39.159 --> 01:15:42.880
I hear people say, like, you know how Henry's you know, emotion,

1276
01:15:43.079 --> 01:15:45.960
not emotion, but like his moral elements, like how he

1277
01:15:46.000 --> 01:15:50.159
would stop Otis from you know, getting sexual with Becky

1278
01:15:50.399 --> 01:15:53.319
and and later on he stops Otis from doing some

1279
01:15:53.359 --> 01:15:55.680
other twisted stuff too. And they'd always say like, well

1280
01:15:55.720 --> 01:15:57.279
he seemed to have like whatever. It's like okay, but

1281
01:15:57.359 --> 01:16:01.000
they killed that guy. They did not know him at all. Yeah,

1282
01:16:01.039 --> 01:16:06.439
Like you could claim that somehow people crossed him before,

1283
01:16:07.079 --> 01:16:08.560
but you can't claim it on that guy. I mean,

1284
01:16:08.560 --> 01:16:11.720
there's no argument. We literally saw the entire interaction, Hey

1285
01:16:11.720 --> 01:16:14.640
do you guys need some help dead? You know, and

1286
01:16:14.640 --> 01:16:18.840
you can say, well, otis did it Henry literally did. Yeah,

1287
01:16:18.840 --> 01:16:22.800
he literally said, hey kill that guy. Yeah. So anyway,

1288
01:16:23.239 --> 01:16:25.079
but it but it does kind of give you that

1289
01:16:25.279 --> 01:16:26.640
vibe I think, do you do you agree?

1290
01:16:26.960 --> 01:16:29.439
No? I agree? And and that's one of the things

1291
01:16:30.079 --> 01:16:37.000
that I liked is how it how it progressed, because

1292
01:16:37.880 --> 01:16:41.399
what you have is at the first, like the first

1293
01:16:41.399 --> 01:16:44.800
part of the film, all of the deaths are tableaus

1294
01:16:45.079 --> 01:16:47.760
and they're really disconnected from Henry.

1295
01:16:47.880 --> 01:16:48.960
That's a really good way to put it.

1296
01:16:49.680 --> 01:16:54.359
And then the first murder where we really like see

1297
01:16:54.479 --> 01:16:58.239
him committing the murder is him at the fence, and

1298
01:16:58.279 --> 01:17:00.479
the way that it's played, or at least the way

1299
01:17:00.520 --> 01:17:03.880
that I, you know, I kind of was like seeing

1300
01:17:03.920 --> 01:17:09.239
it is we're almost supposed to be sympathetic to him killing.

1301
01:17:09.079 --> 01:17:12.680
Yeah, they've definitely handed us the most please kill him

1302
01:17:12.760 --> 01:17:14.520
kind of character is he's.

1303
01:17:14.479 --> 01:17:17.760
Such a fucking flaming asshole from the get go.

1304
01:17:17.920 --> 01:17:19.800
From the second he opens his mouth.

1305
01:17:20.239 --> 01:17:23.960
So when they do kill him, you're almost like, oh, god, finally.

1306
01:17:23.680 --> 01:17:26.039
Yeah, I thank goodness that guy's been stabbed with a

1307
01:17:26.079 --> 01:17:26.840
soldering iron.

1308
01:17:27.560 --> 01:17:29.760
Because that's what I wanted to do the whole time.

1309
01:17:29.800 --> 01:17:33.520
Come on. Yeah, so no, you're totally right. Yes, they

1310
01:17:33.520 --> 01:17:35.239
can't make it seem like it's reasonable.

1311
01:17:35.520 --> 01:17:40.640
So every every kill after that is almost like the

1312
01:17:40.760 --> 01:17:43.840
film asking you, but do you agree with this one?

1313
01:17:45.039 --> 01:17:48.279
And it's kind of like asking you where like it's

1314
01:17:48.319 --> 01:17:51.680
it's an escalator and it's going down, which level do

1315
01:17:51.880 --> 01:17:56.039
you stop at? So you know, the fence totally we

1316
01:17:56.159 --> 01:17:59.239
all understand. Then we get to the random stranger that

1317
01:17:59.279 --> 01:18:00.920
they just kill on the side of the road, and

1318
01:18:00.960 --> 01:18:04.600
it's like, a he was okay, he.

1319
01:18:04.600 --> 01:18:05.880
Was literally a good Samaritan.

1320
01:18:06.119 --> 01:18:08.079
Yeah, he was literally trying to help.

1321
01:18:08.199 --> 01:18:10.439
And the guy they cast for it, who I think

1322
01:18:10.600 --> 01:18:12.640
was the director, although I read it might have actually

1323
01:18:12.680 --> 01:18:16.520
been the production designer, was just a skinny white dude

1324
01:18:16.520 --> 01:18:19.319
in a nice jacket. Like there's no way he was

1325
01:18:19.840 --> 01:18:23.039
like there to mug them. Yeah, you know, do anything,

1326
01:18:23.199 --> 01:18:26.439
but just be nice exactly. I mean the dude looks like, yeah,

1327
01:18:26.479 --> 01:18:28.039
he drinks milk three meals a day.

1328
01:18:28.279 --> 01:18:28.760
Yeah.

1329
01:18:29.039 --> 01:18:30.720
I don't know why I said that, but it made

1330
01:18:30.800 --> 01:18:31.760
sense in my brain.

1331
01:18:31.920 --> 01:18:34.319
That does sound like a nice person, it does.

1332
01:18:34.119 --> 01:18:38.199
And a skinny person. Yeah, very so. But after that.

1333
01:18:38.279 --> 01:18:42.000
Of course, we also got a treat to them making

1334
01:18:42.039 --> 01:18:44.359
a home movie at their house or at their apartment,

1335
01:18:44.720 --> 01:18:47.159
and they're dancing to music and having a good time,

1336
01:18:47.279 --> 01:18:49.880
and Becky and Henry are starting to get real friendly.

1337
01:18:49.960 --> 01:18:53.560
Becky starts kissing on Henry, and Otis is jeering them

1338
01:18:53.600 --> 01:18:56.239
on in a very kind of creepy way, trying to

1339
01:18:56.239 --> 01:18:59.039
get them to like touch each other and stuff. And

1340
01:18:59.399 --> 01:19:01.119
first of all, I mean, where'd they get the cam quarder?

1341
01:19:01.199 --> 01:19:05.039
I mean, that's so nice. But unfortunately, speaking of that

1342
01:19:05.159 --> 01:19:09.840
moral elevator, you were referencing. The next scene involving a

1343
01:19:09.880 --> 01:19:15.479
camquarder that we'll be talking about might just be where

1344
01:19:15.479 --> 01:19:18.119
you get off right after that.

1345
01:19:32.479 --> 01:19:37.560
So after making a fun little video at home, yeah,

1346
01:19:37.680 --> 01:19:40.840
a home movie, if you will, and I will.

1347
01:19:43.079 --> 01:19:44.640
Steal in my lines.

1348
01:19:47.439 --> 01:19:50.199
What to do with a video camera?

1349
01:19:50.399 --> 01:19:52.000
What do? What do?

1350
01:19:52.800 --> 01:19:53.199
What do?

1351
01:19:53.840 --> 01:19:58.560
And they do something very similar because in Confessions they

1352
01:19:58.560 --> 01:20:01.319
have polaroids, Yeah, because they want to make their own

1353
01:20:02.359 --> 01:20:05.560
skin magazine is what they say, yeah so, or dirty

1354
01:20:05.600 --> 01:20:08.720
magazine or whatever. And in Henry they want to make

1355
01:20:08.760 --> 01:20:14.640
their own horror movie. And this scene was very ahead

1356
01:20:14.640 --> 01:20:18.680
of its time, yeah, because it's it's entirely well, it's

1357
01:20:18.680 --> 01:20:22.039
from the perspective of the video camera, although they're filming

1358
01:20:22.119 --> 01:20:25.520
a TV set, which, by the way, I can tell

1359
01:20:25.520 --> 01:20:27.640
you why they did it that way for sure. Why

1360
01:20:28.159 --> 01:20:32.359
because I don't know that in nineteen eighty six, I

1361
01:20:32.399 --> 01:20:36.000
don't know that they knew or that they could in

1362
01:20:36.039 --> 01:20:43.079
a reasonable cost way print videotape to film. Really, if

1363
01:20:43.079 --> 01:20:46.840
the technology existed, it would have been very expensive. Okay,

1364
01:20:46.960 --> 01:20:50.119
So filming the TV set and showing that, you know,

1365
01:20:50.199 --> 01:20:52.680
like letting it be a TV screen in the middle

1366
01:20:52.680 --> 01:20:55.119
of the frame, would be the smartest way to show it.

1367
01:20:55.159 --> 01:20:59.479
So we get to be reliving it as they're reliving it,

1368
01:20:59.560 --> 01:21:02.600
which is just that alone. You know, the idea, when

1369
01:21:02.680 --> 01:21:05.359
you commit a crime, it's you know, violent crime. It's

1370
01:21:05.359 --> 01:21:08.239
one thing when you film committing a violent crime is

1371
01:21:08.319 --> 01:21:10.640
so much worse ycause it means you want to relive

1372
01:21:10.760 --> 01:21:11.720
this heinous thing.

1373
01:21:12.279 --> 01:21:18.479
And that's so so this whole sequence it's tough, it's rough,

1374
01:21:18.600 --> 01:21:23.640
it's painful, but it's also genius for the exact reason

1375
01:21:24.159 --> 01:21:30.600
that you're explaining, because it furthers the narrative and the

1376
01:21:30.720 --> 01:21:34.239
character of both these guys. Because we watch this play

1377
01:21:34.279 --> 01:21:38.439
out and we're watching it on the TV set, and

1378
01:21:38.479 --> 01:21:45.239
then after this whole terrible thing happens, the footage pauses

1379
01:21:46.880 --> 01:21:50.520
and then rewinds, and then we look and see and

1380
01:21:50.880 --> 01:21:52.600
they are rewatching it.

1381
01:21:52.920 --> 01:21:55.319
Yeah, just just Henry and Otis just.

1382
01:21:55.960 --> 01:21:58.760
Because Becky's yeah, Becky doesn't know what's going on at

1383
01:21:58.640 --> 01:22:05.199
all at all, so so what they've done all it does.

1384
01:22:05.319 --> 01:22:09.880
It just immediately opens. There's a woman screaming. There's a

1385
01:22:09.920 --> 01:22:13.560
man who's been tied up and gagged and he's on

1386
01:22:13.600 --> 01:22:17.359
the floor, and the woman is like most of her

1387
01:22:17.439 --> 01:22:21.039
clothes have been ripped off, and Otis has grabbed her

1388
01:22:21.680 --> 01:22:26.760
and holding her down and groping her and choking her.

1389
01:22:27.279 --> 01:22:31.119
And we don't see Henry, but we see the camera

1390
01:22:31.279 --> 01:22:33.319
kind of moving around, so we get the idea like

1391
01:22:33.399 --> 01:22:39.479
Henry's the one holding the camera, right, And it's it's

1392
01:22:39.560 --> 01:22:44.520
so painful because to watch it unfold, because at first

1393
01:22:44.560 --> 01:22:47.239
we're registering, okay, we feel bad for the woman, we

1394
01:22:47.359 --> 01:22:52.439
feel bad for the man, and Henry's kind of like

1395
01:22:52.560 --> 01:22:56.439
jeering from behind the camera and he's like goating the man,

1396
01:22:56.680 --> 01:22:57.239
like what are you.

1397
01:22:57.199 --> 01:22:57.600
Going to do?

1398
01:22:57.640 --> 01:23:01.600
You can't save her now, and we're really worried about

1399
01:23:01.680 --> 01:23:06.039
what's gonna happen. To the woman on screen, because Otis

1400
01:23:06.079 --> 01:23:09.119
has made it very clear up to this point like

1401
01:23:09.199 --> 01:23:13.199
what kind of creepy is, so we have some inklings

1402
01:23:13.199 --> 01:23:14.520
of what he's capable of.

1403
01:23:14.960 --> 01:23:16.000
Yeah.

1404
01:23:16.760 --> 01:23:21.119
Then the front door opens and a like eleven twelve

1405
01:23:21.279 --> 01:23:25.279
thirteen year old kid like kind of walks in. And

1406
01:23:25.319 --> 01:23:27.439
the way it is, the way the room is set up,

1407
01:23:27.560 --> 01:23:30.319
is he wouldn't be able when the door opens, he

1408
01:23:30.359 --> 01:23:33.119
wouldn't be able to see what's going on until he

1409
01:23:33.279 --> 01:23:37.520
like passes around, yeah, part of the room. So he

1410
01:23:37.600 --> 01:23:40.760
comes in and he can hear stuff going on and

1411
01:23:40.840 --> 01:23:46.439
he starts yelling like mom, and the camera drops. Henry

1412
01:23:46.680 --> 01:23:52.279
bolts forward and tackles the kid, pins him to the ground,

1413
01:23:52.920 --> 01:23:58.199
grabs his head and just breaks his neck. Yeah, And

1414
01:23:58.279 --> 01:24:04.159
the woman loses is it, absolutely loses it, and she

1415
01:24:04.640 --> 01:24:08.880
you know, crumples in Otis's arms and he grabs her

1416
01:24:08.960 --> 01:24:11.520
head and breaks her neck.

1417
01:24:12.479 --> 01:24:14.319
And when he does it, he like kind of looks

1418
01:24:14.359 --> 01:24:17.279
to Henry like for approval, Yeah, because he's like, ah,

1419
01:24:17.319 --> 01:24:19.159
you know, I did did did they did it?

1420
01:24:20.039 --> 01:24:20.159
Uh?

1421
01:24:20.520 --> 01:24:23.640
And then they they grab something and they go over

1422
01:24:23.880 --> 01:24:26.840
and they stab the man repeatedly, and that's when the

1423
01:24:26.840 --> 01:24:34.279
footage stops freezes and then rewinds and they're sitting there

1424
01:24:34.600 --> 01:24:36.279
watching it together.

1425
01:24:37.239 --> 01:24:43.279
You forgot something though, that makes it worse. After he's

1426
01:24:43.359 --> 01:24:46.600
killed that woman, he starts trying to, like, that's it,

1427
01:24:46.720 --> 01:24:50.600
have sex with her, and Henry stops him. H says like, Otis,

1428
01:24:50.600 --> 01:24:51.199
what are you doing?

1429
01:24:51.319 --> 01:24:51.359
No?

1430
01:24:51.560 --> 01:24:53.560
Otis No, and he like pulls her off. He pulls

1431
01:24:53.640 --> 01:24:58.199
him off her. Another example of the kind of anti

1432
01:24:58.319 --> 01:25:02.479
herois that they keep hand to Henry because he stops

1433
01:25:02.479 --> 01:25:09.920
Otis from committing necrophilia. Mm hm. The kind of morbid

1434
01:25:09.920 --> 01:25:14.920
irony being that Henry lu Lucas committed multiple acts of necrophilia,

1435
01:25:15.359 --> 01:25:20.439
admittedly throughout his crimespree. But so now they've established I mean,

1436
01:25:20.479 --> 01:25:23.560
Otis is really out there. I mean, he was gonna

1437
01:25:23.880 --> 01:25:26.680
sleep with the corpse. Yeah, but you're but I mean,

1438
01:25:27.359 --> 01:25:30.600
to be honest, I mean, with how how heinous it

1439
01:25:30.640 --> 01:25:33.840
all is, I don't blame you for forgetting that one detail. Yeah,

1440
01:25:33.840 --> 01:25:36.319
but it is a point toward them trying to kind

1441
01:25:36.319 --> 01:25:42.520
of make you think Henry is somehow even remotely good somehow, And.

1442
01:25:44.239 --> 01:25:46.399
To me, and maybe I was reading into it a

1443
01:25:46.439 --> 01:25:51.239
little bit too much. Maybe I'm just so jaded, but

1444
01:25:52.439 --> 01:25:56.319
I feel like they were also in a way trying

1445
01:25:56.359 --> 01:26:00.840
to give you an excuse to sympathize with Henry killing

1446
01:26:00.880 --> 01:26:05.520
the kid, because the scenes prior to that are all

1447
01:26:05.720 --> 01:26:09.720
him explaining to Otis how to get away with murder y,

1448
01:26:10.000 --> 01:26:13.199
that you never want to have any witnesses, that you

1449
01:26:13.279 --> 01:26:15.640
want to make sure that there's no loose ends.

1450
01:26:16.279 --> 01:26:16.720
You don't.

1451
01:26:17.239 --> 01:26:21.640
So it's it's almost giving you this out of being like,

1452
01:26:21.680 --> 01:26:24.920
but you can almost sympathize with him because he's so methodical.

1453
01:26:25.039 --> 01:26:28.520
He wouldn't leave a loose end like a child who

1454
01:26:28.560 --> 01:26:33.800
would tell everyone what they just saw. Yeah, And and

1455
01:26:33.840 --> 01:26:37.560
then with him like telling otis like don't don't commit

1456
01:26:37.640 --> 01:26:42.079
necrophilia again, it kind of it kind of gives you

1457
01:26:42.239 --> 01:26:47.199
this sense of like, maybe he isn't a total and

1458
01:26:47.279 --> 01:26:48.159
complete monster.

1459
01:26:49.039 --> 01:26:52.319
Well, and he also mentioned, just because it'll pay off

1460
01:26:52.319 --> 01:26:54.279
in a little bit, that the other trick to not

1461
01:26:54.319 --> 01:26:58.439
getting caught is to keep moving. Yes, and so he

1462
01:26:58.520 --> 01:27:00.720
mentions like, I probably can't be in Chicago much longer.

1463
01:27:02.000 --> 01:27:04.680
I do want to mention that that scene that we

1464
01:27:04.680 --> 01:27:07.279
were just discussing with the family is what has been

1465
01:27:07.359 --> 01:27:12.439
most heavily censored and caused Henry to not be released

1466
01:27:12.439 --> 01:27:16.960
in multiple countries. Think I believe it, and in nineteen

1467
01:27:17.039 --> 01:27:21.279
ninety two the British Board of Censorship. The director James

1468
01:27:21.359 --> 01:27:26.119
Furman had previously announced on a film program on television

1469
01:27:26.399 --> 01:27:29.680
that he could not envision Henry ever being granted a

1470
01:27:29.800 --> 01:27:34.039
video certificate as it was simply too disturbing to be

1471
01:27:34.239 --> 01:27:39.880
viewed at home. We could talk for hours about the BBFC,

1472
01:27:39.960 --> 01:27:42.199
because there's a whole thing. There was an era where

1473
01:27:42.199 --> 01:27:44.760
they released a list of movies that just were not

1474
01:27:44.840 --> 01:27:47.239
even allowed, all the video nasty. Oh you remember the

1475
01:27:47.319 --> 01:27:50.600
video Nasties. Yeah, Henry was after that era. Okay, so

1476
01:27:50.680 --> 01:27:55.319
it wasn't literally a video Nasty, but it was very close.

1477
01:27:55.479 --> 01:27:58.960
I mean it was illegal to have copies of them

1478
01:27:58.960 --> 01:28:01.720
in Britain. Yeah, so people had them like crazy, because

1479
01:28:01.720 --> 01:28:05.560
that's the way that works. Yeah. So that sequence, you know, rightfully,

1480
01:28:05.600 --> 01:28:08.279
so caused a lot of people to be pretty upset.

1481
01:28:08.279 --> 01:28:09.359
I mean they kill a family.

1482
01:28:09.680 --> 01:28:09.880
Yeah.

1483
01:28:09.920 --> 01:28:12.479
Well, and see that's the thing. You and I will

1484
01:28:12.520 --> 01:28:18.600
both agree on this. It is a rough sequence to watch. Yeah,

1485
01:28:18.680 --> 01:28:21.359
and I can't like if there's someone out there who

1486
01:28:21.439 --> 01:28:24.640
would ever say like, oh, well, I'm very sensitive, so

1487
01:28:24.680 --> 01:28:27.439
I don't think I could watch that movie. I'm not

1488
01:28:27.479 --> 01:28:30.560
going to say like, oh, well, you're a bad person.

1489
01:28:31.439 --> 01:28:35.279
But I don't agree with the government telling me that

1490
01:28:35.359 --> 01:28:37.600
I'm not allowed to watch it.

1491
01:28:37.800 --> 01:28:40.800
That's different. I don't agree with the British government telling

1492
01:28:40.880 --> 01:28:42.039
me anything. That's why I.

1493
01:28:42.000 --> 01:28:46.119
Don't yeah them, yeah them doubly. So we thought a

1494
01:28:46.119 --> 01:28:47.159
full more about it.

1495
01:28:48.520 --> 01:28:52.119
Yeah, eighteen twelve, which lasted til eighteen fourteen. Well, we're

1496
01:28:52.119 --> 01:28:55.119
going to take a quick break and things are beginning

1497
01:28:55.159 --> 01:28:59.760
to escalate because Becky has a surprise to drop at

1498
01:28:59.800 --> 01:29:18.199
Hen's feet right after this. All right, so after all

1499
01:29:18.239 --> 01:29:18.680
of that.

1500
01:29:21.840 --> 01:29:24.920
We need a change of tone a little bit, I

1501
01:29:24.960 --> 01:29:26.279
guess I suppose.

1502
01:29:26.399 --> 01:29:32.920
So, yeah, and a lot happens in this last little section. Gosh, okay,

1503
01:29:32.960 --> 01:29:36.119
So what was the first part of.

1504
01:29:36.560 --> 01:29:41.560
So Becky's working at the salon and I love this.

1505
01:29:42.640 --> 01:29:45.399
People will say, oh, you couldn't make this movie today,

1506
01:29:45.520 --> 01:29:48.479
and they're being pretentious and trying to say like because

1507
01:29:48.479 --> 01:29:52.039
of the messaging or because of this or that, people

1508
01:29:52.079 --> 01:29:55.640
wouldn't want this movie to be made. You literally couldn't

1509
01:29:55.840 --> 01:30:00.279
make this sequence today because everyone has cell phone.

1510
01:30:00.880 --> 01:30:04.039
I mean in that time period.

1511
01:30:04.079 --> 01:30:07.960
But so Becky's at work, but she's talking with her

1512
01:30:08.079 --> 01:30:12.039
mom because they don't have a working phone at home,

1513
01:30:12.239 --> 01:30:14.680
so the only time she can talk to her mom

1514
01:30:15.000 --> 01:30:18.920
is at work. So she's talking to her mom and

1515
01:30:18.960 --> 01:30:23.520
she gets some news. LeRoy's in jail for murder.

1516
01:30:24.600 --> 01:30:27.800
Yep. What a guy that Leroy.

1517
01:30:28.239 --> 01:30:32.159
So great, great character. I guess she knows how she

1518
01:30:32.199 --> 01:30:33.279
really knows how to pick them.

1519
01:30:33.319 --> 01:30:38.399
Yep, we were thinking the same thing. So, yeah, we

1520
01:30:38.680 --> 01:30:41.279
find out that LeRoy's in jail and that she misses

1521
01:30:41.279 --> 01:30:45.720
her daughter pretty bad. And then Henry and Otis are

1522
01:30:45.760 --> 01:30:48.239
out driving around and Otis is sticking his head out

1523
01:30:48.279 --> 01:30:51.199
the car window and trying to film women and whatever

1524
01:30:51.279 --> 01:30:55.439
else be in a creep Yeah, and he ends up

1525
01:30:55.439 --> 01:30:59.239
getting a little two cocky and he busts his camera. Yeah.

1526
01:30:59.760 --> 01:31:02.880
And this sequence is interesting because it it shows you

1527
01:31:03.680 --> 01:31:07.319
that Henry has a temperamental side. I mean Otis is.

1528
01:31:07.600 --> 01:31:10.239
Otis doesn't have a temperamental side. That's just all of

1529
01:31:10.279 --> 01:31:14.439
his side. He's one side and it is temperamental. Yeah,

1530
01:31:14.479 --> 01:31:16.119
but if both sides are temperamental, you don't have a

1531
01:31:16.159 --> 01:31:21.359
temperamental side. So he gets livid, you know, says like

1532
01:31:21.399 --> 01:31:23.000
you could have hurt me, you busted it up, and

1533
01:31:23.000 --> 01:31:24.479
all of a sudden he throws it right out of

1534
01:31:24.479 --> 01:31:27.680
the car. Yeah, and Henry is just like, I could

1535
01:31:27.680 --> 01:31:29.680
have fixed it, and he's like it was busted. He

1536
01:31:29.800 --> 01:31:31.640
was like I could have fixed it. He's like, well

1537
01:31:31.680 --> 01:31:34.920
I didn't know. So it's it's like very realistic argument.

1538
01:31:35.680 --> 01:31:39.439
And he ends up leaving Otis because Otis wants to

1539
01:31:39.439 --> 01:31:42.560
get a drink and Henry doesn't. So Otis kicks him.

1540
01:31:42.960 --> 01:31:44.760
He kicks him out of the car. Well it does

1541
01:31:44.840 --> 01:31:47.279
feel like friends they're gonna cool off. Yeah, you know,

1542
01:31:47.760 --> 01:31:50.079
so Otis gets out of the car and walks off.

1543
01:31:50.800 --> 01:31:55.000
And I like how this sequence Otis is getting a

1544
01:31:55.079 --> 01:32:00.640
little too cocky because, like earlier on, after he saw

1545
01:32:00.680 --> 01:32:03.520
that Henry killed people, those few times when Henry would

1546
01:32:03.520 --> 01:32:05.520
stand up to him because he was pissing him off,

1547
01:32:05.840 --> 01:32:08.239
you know, whether it was trying to kiss at Becky

1548
01:32:08.600 --> 01:32:12.520
or whether it was you know, egging them all on

1549
01:32:12.640 --> 01:32:15.079
or whatever, when he would stand up to Otis would

1550
01:32:15.079 --> 01:32:18.239
like get he was clearly afraid of him. Yeah, you know,

1551
01:32:18.279 --> 01:32:20.840
he'd be like no problem, man, Sorry, sorry sorry.

1552
01:32:20.920 --> 01:32:21.079
Yeah.

1553
01:32:21.720 --> 01:32:24.920
So he's getting a little bit ballsy. I mean he

1554
01:32:24.960 --> 01:32:28.279
was yelling at him in the car. So and after

1555
01:32:28.359 --> 01:32:30.840
that I believe he he heads home and that's when

1556
01:32:30.840 --> 01:32:34.800
we find out Becky's big surprise. She's going home. Yeah,

1557
01:32:34.960 --> 01:32:38.199
she quit her job at the salon, and she's decided

1558
01:32:38.239 --> 01:32:40.399
that Chicago's just not going to work out for her.

1559
01:32:41.159 --> 01:32:43.000
She wants to be home with her kid, and where

1560
01:32:43.000 --> 01:32:45.359
she needs to be is with her mama, you know,

1561
01:32:45.399 --> 01:32:49.399
and her and her daughter. And Henry is not would

1562
01:32:49.439 --> 01:32:52.119
you say he's not phased. He just kind of blinks.

1563
01:32:52.640 --> 01:32:54.439
He's kind of hears it, and he hears it, you know.

1564
01:32:54.560 --> 01:32:59.159
Yeah, well he's always been so he's been so weird

1565
01:32:59.239 --> 01:33:04.039
about her because they'll bond, but then when they get

1566
01:33:04.119 --> 01:33:11.039
too close, he gets icy. And and so when she

1567
01:33:11.560 --> 01:33:14.600
drops this news that she's quit her job and she's

1568
01:33:14.640 --> 01:33:18.319
gonna be moving again, he's kind of like, okay, And

1569
01:33:18.319 --> 01:33:20.760
and he even his whole thing is like he was

1570
01:33:20.800 --> 01:33:22.520
going to be leaving soon anyway.

1571
01:33:23.399 --> 01:33:25.560
Yeah.

1572
01:33:25.640 --> 01:33:32.720
Yeah, so he he's he's not really that upset. And

1573
01:33:32.760 --> 01:33:35.720
she even she even invites him, she's like, you can

1574
01:33:35.760 --> 01:33:37.000
come with me, and he's.

1575
01:33:36.960 --> 01:33:39.800
Like, she says, you can live with us at my mama.

1576
01:33:39.920 --> 01:33:44.359
I don't know if that would be the best idea. So,

1577
01:33:44.800 --> 01:33:47.479
but but he does offer to take her out to dinner.

1578
01:33:47.680 --> 01:33:50.680
Yeah, to steak dinner. Yeah, they'll find a place to

1579
01:33:51.600 --> 01:33:54.560
treat her, not to celebrate, because she tells him like,

1580
01:33:54.560 --> 01:33:56.640
you're gonna have to decide, you know, quick, and he's like,

1581
01:33:56.680 --> 01:33:59.359
I just need to think about it. Yeah, and uh

1582
01:33:59.520 --> 01:34:01.439
oh boy, they you know they're gonna go out to

1583
01:34:01.479 --> 01:34:10.039
a steak dinner. Yeah, So so they go out, right, Yeah.

1584
01:34:09.880 --> 01:34:12.560
They go out, and then it's when they come back

1585
01:34:12.680 --> 01:34:18.119
and Otis is passed out watching the tape.

1586
01:34:18.239 --> 01:34:21.600
Which Henry luckily notices first. So he turns the tape off,

1587
01:34:21.640 --> 01:34:24.439
takes and then this is something I like, because did

1588
01:34:24.479 --> 01:34:28.800
you did you catch this that Henry? It's it's like

1589
01:34:28.880 --> 01:34:33.000
he's getting ready for the bad shit because he turns

1590
01:34:33.000 --> 01:34:35.399
it off and then ejects the tape and puts it

1591
01:34:35.439 --> 01:34:36.920
immediately in his coat pocket.

1592
01:34:37.399 --> 01:34:39.680
I didn't catch that he put it in his coat pocket.

1593
01:34:39.720 --> 01:34:42.560
I just caught that he turned it off and immediately

1594
01:34:42.640 --> 01:34:43.159
took it out.

1595
01:34:43.239 --> 01:34:44.960
Yeah, he put it in his coat pocket. So he

1596
01:34:45.119 --> 01:34:50.640
was taking evidence from there. Yeah, whether it was simply

1597
01:34:50.720 --> 01:34:52.920
because Otis can't be trusted with it if he's gonna

1598
01:34:53.000 --> 01:34:55.680
leave it on while he's you know, passed out, or

1599
01:34:56.680 --> 01:35:02.079
because he's gonna leave and therefore wants the evidence, you know,

1600
01:35:02.199 --> 01:35:05.239
So that nothing could implicate him, that's arguable.

1601
01:35:05.439 --> 01:35:07.359
Yeah, but either way, he doesn't want to leave a

1602
01:35:07.399 --> 01:35:07.920
loose end.

1603
01:35:08.079 --> 01:35:15.680
Yeah. And the two lovebirds, the two Romeo and his Juliette.

1604
01:35:16.640 --> 01:35:20.640
They they go into his little bedroom and she starts,

1605
01:35:20.760 --> 01:35:23.640
you know, making time with him. She she you know,

1606
01:35:23.880 --> 01:35:29.239
is crazy about him. Yeah, And right when maybe she

1607
01:35:29.399 --> 01:35:35.640
might be making some headway, Otis interrupts and you know,

1608
01:35:35.720 --> 01:35:39.960
in his charming way, he's drunker than a skunk, and

1609
01:35:40.560 --> 01:35:43.479
Henry's just it just pulls him out of that moment,

1610
01:35:43.520 --> 01:35:45.359
and it pulls about of that. He kind of realizes,

1611
01:35:45.399 --> 01:35:48.600
like he doesn't know how he feels about all this. Yeah,

1612
01:35:48.640 --> 01:35:51.119
so he says he's gonna go get smokes. Yeah, and

1613
01:35:51.159 --> 01:35:53.439
he just needs to get some mayor. I'm gonna get

1614
01:35:53.439 --> 01:35:55.600
smokes and I'm gonna get some mayor. You know, it

1615
01:35:55.600 --> 01:35:59.119
really does sound like Steve Austin when I do that.

1616
01:35:59.119 --> 01:36:03.520
That's what he's gonna do. Yeah. So he takes off,

1617
01:36:03.680 --> 01:36:05.520
Yes if they want anything, which I thought was very

1618
01:36:05.520 --> 01:36:08.840
funny because it's very roommate thing. Yeah thing, Nope, Nope.

1619
01:36:09.399 --> 01:36:14.720
So he leaves and wanders the Chicago streets at night,

1620
01:36:16.159 --> 01:36:18.039
goes to a bodet. Well, I don't think they're called

1621
01:36:18.039 --> 01:36:20.079
bodegas out there. But he goes to the store, a

1622
01:36:20.119 --> 01:36:22.840
corner store, and uh, I want to mention, I wish

1623
01:36:22.880 --> 01:36:24.520
I could remember his name off the top of my head.

1624
01:36:24.880 --> 01:36:31.119
The clerk at the station, he's like a like a

1625
01:36:31.119 --> 01:36:35.640
Asian or Arab clerk. Yeah, he was actually one of

1626
01:36:35.680 --> 01:36:40.000
the producers really, because the the brothers who owned MPI

1627
01:36:40.199 --> 01:36:43.640
or started MPI. I'm trying to find their their names,

1628
01:36:43.680 --> 01:36:46.880
but I'm not finding it. Their names are at the

1629
01:36:46.880 --> 01:36:48.920
beginning of the movie. They're like Ali Wayid or something.

1630
01:36:49.720 --> 01:36:53.800
I saw their names, but I do not remember.

1631
01:36:54.520 --> 01:36:56.840
Yeah, I'm not seeing it now, but uh, it was

1632
01:36:56.880 --> 01:36:59.239
one of the brothers played him, which I just thought

1633
01:36:59.239 --> 01:37:01.279
was cool that he like popped up in there. And

1634
01:37:01.920 --> 01:37:06.760
he says something that's like sacrilegious in Chicago, because after

1635
01:37:06.760 --> 01:37:09.079
he buys the cigarettes from him, and we're all waiting wondering,

1636
01:37:09.119 --> 01:37:10.680
like is he gonna kill this guy and rob him

1637
01:37:10.760 --> 01:37:13.119
or something, he just says, you know how about the Bears,

1638
01:37:13.319 --> 01:37:16.159
and and Henry looks dead in the eye goes fuck

1639
01:37:16.279 --> 01:37:21.239
the Bears. Whoa? And then you debut that in Chicago

1640
01:37:21.760 --> 01:37:26.840
what jeeks? So, but things are getting a little bit

1641
01:37:27.000 --> 01:37:30.920
harrier as he notices a woman alone walking a dog,

1642
01:37:31.760 --> 01:37:33.119
and we'll get to that right after this.

1643
01:37:45.840 --> 01:37:50.600
On his way back from the corner store, Henry encounters

1644
01:37:50.640 --> 01:37:55.920
this lady and she's walking her little dog. He's like

1645
01:37:56.039 --> 01:37:57.079
a nice dog.

1646
01:37:57.520 --> 01:37:59.640
Yeah, he just asked her about her dogs, like.

1647
01:38:00.479 --> 01:38:04.560
Thanks, She's like thanks, Heines fifty seven. He's like what,

1648
01:38:04.920 --> 01:38:08.319
And I loved that because that is such an old

1649
01:38:08.359 --> 01:38:12.279
person joke. Yeah, the Heines fifty seven variety joke is

1650
01:38:12.960 --> 01:38:15.920
such an old person joke. And he's like, what Heine's

1651
01:38:15.920 --> 01:38:17.159
fifty seven varieties.

1652
01:38:17.760 --> 01:38:18.560
He's a mutt.

1653
01:38:19.520 --> 01:38:21.920
I mean it just I love that exchange. And for

1654
01:38:21.960 --> 01:38:24.560
some reason he decides not to kill her.

1655
01:38:24.800 --> 01:38:28.319
Yeah. I don't know if it's because he wanted to

1656
01:38:28.319 --> 01:38:31.800
get back to Becky or if it's because he wanted

1657
01:38:31.800 --> 01:38:34.319
to get out of town. Yeah, because maybe he felt like,

1658
01:38:34.720 --> 01:38:38.359
you know, his expiration date for crime there was coming close,

1659
01:38:38.680 --> 01:38:40.920
you know, because he keeps committing more and more crimes

1660
01:38:40.920 --> 01:38:43.760
in the same area. Eventually he might get caught.

1661
01:38:44.079 --> 01:38:47.800
And and he's also I feel like there was a

1662
01:38:47.800 --> 01:38:55.239
lot of urgency in internal urgency because they left the

1663
01:38:55.279 --> 01:38:59.039
broken camcorder on the side of the road, and that

1664
01:38:59.119 --> 01:39:01.720
could be extra evidence potentially.

1665
01:39:01.760 --> 01:39:04.079
I mean, I don't know. I mean, obviously the tape

1666
01:39:04.119 --> 01:39:07.239
wasn't in it. Yeah that's true, but but no, I mean,

1667
01:39:07.399 --> 01:39:11.439
you know, he's definitely noticed Otis is getting sloppy, and

1668
01:39:12.680 --> 01:39:14.319
it's about time to peace out.

1669
01:39:15.079 --> 01:39:21.239
Speaking of Otis getting sloppy, oh god, ugh, yeah, yeah,

1670
01:39:21.439 --> 01:39:30.239
go ahead. So the next most disturbing scene, we're back

1671
01:39:30.319 --> 01:39:34.319
at the apartment and Otis is like just attempting to

1672
01:39:34.439 --> 01:39:37.600
rape Becky, like he's got her pinned down, and he's

1673
01:39:37.640 --> 01:39:43.119
like like, damn near, uh damn near doing it. And

1674
01:39:43.239 --> 01:39:49.920
Henry walks in and obviously is outraged, so pushes, you know,

1675
01:39:49.960 --> 01:39:52.840
pushes him and beats him up and they start fighting.

1676
01:39:53.159 --> 01:39:56.800
Otis actually gets the upper hand though, and Otis is

1677
01:39:56.920 --> 01:40:03.880
about ready to strangle he to death when Becky kind

1678
01:40:03.880 --> 01:40:06.760
of snaps out of it and she grabs her comb

1679
01:40:07.399 --> 01:40:09.960
and stabs Otis in.

1680
01:40:09.920 --> 01:40:10.399
The eye with.

1681
01:40:12.239 --> 01:40:14.880
Yeah, a pit comb, so she's got like the sharp

1682
01:40:15.000 --> 01:40:16.840
end and she stabs him in the eye with it,

1683
01:40:17.479 --> 01:40:22.880
and he, you know, he reels back, and then Henry

1684
01:40:23.000 --> 01:40:25.760
grabs the pick comb out of his eye and just

1685
01:40:25.800 --> 01:40:30.800
starts stabbing him repeatedly and murders him dead.

1686
01:40:31.359 --> 01:40:38.000
Yes, and beys just like you, No, we do not,

1687
01:40:38.479 --> 01:40:38.800
and he.

1688
01:40:38.880 --> 01:40:43.039
Just picks up, picks up Otis by the ankles, drags

1689
01:40:43.079 --> 01:40:47.840
him into the bathroom and she's in the bedroom freaking out,

1690
01:40:47.880 --> 01:40:53.159
like covered in blood, shocked, absolutely shocked at what has

1691
01:40:53.359 --> 01:40:59.720
just happened. And then we just hear hacking noises coming

1692
01:40:59.760 --> 01:41:03.680
from the bathroom, and then we go and he's got

1693
01:41:03.760 --> 01:41:04.800
Otis's head.

1694
01:41:05.319 --> 01:41:07.039
Drops it into the trash bags.

1695
01:41:08.560 --> 01:41:14.960
Yeah, just got him in pieces. And then they late

1696
01:41:15.439 --> 01:41:20.920
that night they leave with a whole bunch of luggage

1697
01:41:21.239 --> 01:41:25.520
and a whole bunch of bags in the trunk. They

1698
01:41:26.239 --> 01:41:32.000
stop halfway over a bridge and dump a whole bunch

1699
01:41:32.039 --> 01:41:35.119
of bags right into the river, right into the river,

1700
01:41:35.159 --> 01:41:38.720
and then just drive off to a nice seedy motel

1701
01:41:38.920 --> 01:41:40.920
somewhere at the edge of the edge of town.

1702
01:41:41.039 --> 01:41:43.840
Well, he says. Two things I love about this sequence

1703
01:41:44.279 --> 01:41:47.520
is when they're talking in the car, Henry says that

1704
01:41:47.640 --> 01:41:51.800
his sister owns a ranch in San Bernardino. Yeah, yeah,

1705
01:41:51.880 --> 01:41:53.399
and that they could go stay there as long as

1706
01:41:53.439 --> 01:41:56.199
they want. And she's like, what about my daughter, And

1707
01:41:56.199 --> 01:41:58.000
he's like, we can send for when we get there,

1708
01:41:58.800 --> 01:42:01.560
and so she's kind of like, you know, do you

1709
01:42:01.560 --> 01:42:04.439
think that'll be okay, because she's very scared. She's not

1710
01:42:04.680 --> 01:42:07.520
like just like, okay, let's go somewhere. She's like, what

1711
01:42:07.640 --> 01:42:11.239
did you know? What did we do? Like what happened?

1712
01:42:11.319 --> 01:42:13.840
You know? And Henry's just like, you just got to

1713
01:42:13.880 --> 01:42:18.079
get past it. So one of my favorite things, though,

1714
01:42:18.279 --> 01:42:23.239
is when she tells him I love you yeah, and

1715
01:42:23.319 --> 01:42:27.920
he says, I guess I love you too, yeah, and

1716
01:42:28.880 --> 01:42:32.000
that alone like, I mean, I guess I love you too.

1717
01:42:32.760 --> 01:42:34.359
And then she says, where are we going to stay?

1718
01:42:34.399 --> 01:42:36.000
And he says, We'll find a place. And that's what

1719
01:42:36.039 --> 01:42:37.680
he said when they went when they wanted to go

1720
01:42:37.760 --> 01:42:39.439
out for dinner, she said where are we going to go?

1721
01:42:39.479 --> 01:42:41.960
And he said, we'll find a place. We'll find a place.

1722
01:42:42.920 --> 01:42:45.199
So yeah, So they end up at that CD hotel,

1723
01:42:45.920 --> 01:42:46.880
like you were saying.

1724
01:42:46.880 --> 01:42:50.119
Yeah, So they end up in a CD hotel. They

1725
01:42:51.159 --> 01:42:57.960
they're sitting around and Becky's playing on a guitar, which

1726
01:42:58.680 --> 01:43:02.359
which Henry had gotten from a woman that he had

1727
01:43:02.439 --> 01:43:05.399
killed at the start of the movie, and he brought

1728
01:43:05.399 --> 01:43:08.680
the guitar home and gave it to Otis and was like, hey,

1729
01:43:08.680 --> 01:43:11.439
you want this. Otis didn't want it, so Becky took

1730
01:43:11.479 --> 01:43:14.680
it so she's sitting there playing the guitar, and she's

1731
01:43:14.760 --> 01:43:18.279
kind of like talking about the future and kind of

1732
01:43:18.680 --> 01:43:21.279
like talking about like maybe this will be good, moving

1733
01:43:21.439 --> 01:43:24.399
to California could be good. And you know, I've never

1734
01:43:24.439 --> 01:43:26.720
been good at playing guitar, but you know he used

1735
01:43:26.720 --> 01:43:29.000
to and all this and kind of talking about her daughter.

1736
01:43:29.560 --> 01:43:34.199
And he's just kind of sitting there listening but not listening,

1737
01:43:34.680 --> 01:43:37.039
like he's he's listening, but he's not engaging.

1738
01:43:37.359 --> 01:43:37.800
Yeah.

1739
01:43:38.760 --> 01:43:42.439
Then it's the next morning, early the next morning, it's like,

1740
01:43:42.560 --> 01:43:45.079
you know, Golden Hour. His car pulls up to the

1741
01:43:45.119 --> 01:43:48.560
side of the road on like a backcountry road somewhere.

1742
01:43:48.640 --> 01:43:50.760
Well, I want to set it up a little bit more, okay,

1743
01:43:50.760 --> 01:43:53.760
because I love how they I love how they did this. Yeah,

1744
01:43:53.800 --> 01:43:57.439
it's morning. He's shaving. Yeah, I mean he's just looking

1745
01:43:57.479 --> 01:44:02.399
in the mirror. He's shaving. He's walks out of the motel,

1746
01:44:02.560 --> 01:44:06.159
gets in his car. He appears to be by himself,

1747
01:44:06.239 --> 01:44:11.000
but they do obscure the passenger side, as if somebody

1748
01:44:11.039 --> 01:44:12.399
could be sitting there and you wouldn't be able to

1749
01:44:12.439 --> 01:44:15.159
see them. Yes, but then once he's on the road,

1750
01:44:15.199 --> 01:44:17.079
it becomes pretty clear he's the only one in the car,

1751
01:44:17.399 --> 01:44:19.800
and I didn't mean to steal your thunder. It's just that, Like,

1752
01:44:20.319 --> 01:44:24.760
I love that. It's he shaves and then just casually

1753
01:44:24.800 --> 01:44:28.279
gets in the car and scoots. Yeah. But yeah, as

1754
01:44:28.279 --> 01:44:30.359
you were saying, so he pulls up on the side

1755
01:44:30.359 --> 01:44:32.279
of the road. He's probably I think they make it

1756
01:44:32.319 --> 01:44:34.640
look like he probably went sixty seventy eighty miles from

1757
01:44:34.680 --> 01:44:35.119
the hotel.

1758
01:44:35.279 --> 01:44:38.520
Yeah, it's I mean, it's a clip, I would call it.

1759
01:44:39.479 --> 01:44:42.399
So he gets out of the car and he gets

1760
01:44:43.119 --> 01:44:47.840
Becky's luggage, Becky's suitcase, and it's got like a bloody

1761
01:44:47.840 --> 01:44:51.039
handprint on it, and it's huge, and it's huge, it's

1762
01:44:51.079 --> 01:44:55.960
like full, bursting full, tosses it off the side of

1763
01:44:56.000 --> 01:44:59.520
the road, gets back into the car, drives off.

1764
01:45:00.079 --> 01:45:04.439
The camera stays and pulls in slowly on the suitcase

1765
01:45:04.479 --> 01:45:07.079
sitting on the side of the road, and we hear

1766
01:45:07.199 --> 01:45:10.760
the music and it becomes very clear that that is

1767
01:45:10.800 --> 01:45:18.680
Becky's final resting place. And because Henry is a killer, Yeah,

1768
01:45:18.880 --> 01:45:20.520
at the end of the day, that's all he is.

1769
01:45:20.840 --> 01:45:24.199
And I love that because it's a gut punch that

1770
01:45:24.640 --> 01:45:27.760
if you weren't expecting it, you weren't paying attention, you

1771
01:45:27.800 --> 01:45:32.479
were trying to believe something else because he never had

1772
01:45:32.640 --> 01:45:36.039
anyone's best interest at heart in the long term, not

1773
01:45:36.119 --> 01:45:40.800
even vaguely. M So, you know, he had his scruples

1774
01:45:40.800 --> 01:45:44.760
about certain activities, but I don't I mean, but not

1775
01:45:44.880 --> 01:45:49.760
about killing anybody for any reason. And yeah, it's a chilling,

1776
01:45:50.199 --> 01:45:54.039
chilling ending, And we're gonna take a quick break and

1777
01:45:54.079 --> 01:45:56.640
we'll give our final thoughts on Henry Portrait of a

1778
01:45:56.680 --> 01:46:00.399
Serial Killer how it compares to Confessions, and also we'll

1779
01:46:00.439 --> 01:46:03.000
tease what the next film we'll be talking about is

1780
01:46:03.479 --> 01:46:20.680
right after this. So final thoughts on Henry Portrait of

1781
01:46:20.720 --> 01:46:22.600
a Serial Killer, go.

1782
01:46:23.600 --> 01:46:30.520
Well, I I like it as much as Confessions. It's

1783
01:46:30.600 --> 01:46:35.000
just they're both so tonally different that I can't choose

1784
01:46:35.039 --> 01:46:35.920
like one or the other.

1785
01:46:36.159 --> 01:46:41.439
Really, yeah, they are very different in style and tone. Yeah,

1786
01:46:41.479 --> 01:46:43.560
so I like how.

1787
01:46:45.760 --> 01:46:51.520
I like how in Henry it was they were both

1788
01:46:51.600 --> 01:46:56.640
character studies. But in Henry it was almost like a play,

1789
01:46:56.920 --> 01:46:59.680
a little bit of a play with the unreliable narrator

1790
01:47:00.800 --> 01:47:05.479
because we saw in the first act of the movie,

1791
01:47:05.520 --> 01:47:09.119
we say, we only see the aftermath of Henry's violence,

1792
01:47:09.239 --> 01:47:15.119
we don't see the killing itself. So it's because it's

1793
01:47:15.119 --> 01:47:18.840
so detached. We almost feel like the film is kind

1794
01:47:18.880 --> 01:47:24.359
of again leading us to sympathize with him as a killer,

1795
01:47:24.760 --> 01:47:29.720
whereas in Confessions, it's in your face, like from the

1796
01:47:29.760 --> 01:47:32.880
get go, he is the killer. He's the one doing it,

1797
01:47:34.439 --> 01:47:39.079
so there's there's no question at all about whether he's

1798
01:47:39.119 --> 01:47:40.439
the one committing the violence.

1799
01:47:41.039 --> 01:47:43.680
Yeah, I mean they do. They do give you opportunities

1800
01:47:43.720 --> 01:47:47.439
to sympathize with him early on. M hmm, but then

1801
01:47:47.479 --> 01:47:50.520
they just keep unrolling more and more because we get

1802
01:47:50.560 --> 01:47:53.359
a lot more detail about his abusive childhood, We get

1803
01:47:53.359 --> 01:47:56.960
a lot more detail about the ways he's been hurt, yeah, mistreated,

1804
01:47:57.920 --> 01:48:01.319
And we even have the Texas race who like starts

1805
01:48:01.359 --> 01:48:03.199
to almost be buddies with him for a second and

1806
01:48:03.199 --> 01:48:07.159
then realize like, no, this guy is a monster because

1807
01:48:07.159 --> 01:48:09.479
he gets that weird feeling because they're solving crimes together.

1808
01:48:09.520 --> 01:48:13.600
It's just their crimes he committed. Yeah. So I don't know.

1809
01:48:13.840 --> 01:48:16.680
I mean, I love Henry. I think Henry deserves its

1810
01:48:16.760 --> 01:48:22.880
reputation as a fascinating, brilliant, and painful piece of art. Yeah,

1811
01:48:22.920 --> 01:48:25.920
but I think Confessions is just plain scarier. I really do.

1812
01:48:26.199 --> 01:48:28.920
I think that I feel more unnerved at the end

1813
01:48:28.960 --> 01:48:33.079
of Confessions, although Henry does creep me out, but I think, honestly,

1814
01:48:33.399 --> 01:48:37.880
I think that Henry, like most horror movies, classic horror movies,

1815
01:48:37.880 --> 01:48:41.880
I think Henry is a lot tamer now, yeah, because

1816
01:48:41.880 --> 01:48:46.039
of how I mean, what Henry does that is so

1817
01:48:46.199 --> 01:48:50.520
shocking is in like every A twenty four movie, you know,

1818
01:48:50.640 --> 01:48:54.560
I mean, I stabbing. I hate to put it this way,

1819
01:48:54.560 --> 01:48:57.039
but I'm just talking about from a presentation there or

1820
01:48:57.159 --> 01:49:00.600
like mild sexual violence. Yeah, you know, they don't show

1821
01:49:00.640 --> 01:49:04.000
a lot of it, and it's you know, that's not

1822
01:49:04.119 --> 01:49:07.520
uncommon in a lot of modern horror films for them

1823
01:49:07.520 --> 01:49:11.600
to be very gruesome, never flinch. So in that way,

1824
01:49:11.680 --> 01:49:15.560
Henry is kind of mild now, but I think Confessions

1825
01:49:15.600 --> 01:49:20.920
is still very upsetting. It is. Sorry about that terrifying.

1826
01:49:21.039 --> 01:49:23.479
Was you got possessed by Pazuzu for a second? There?

1827
01:49:25.079 --> 01:49:27.199
No, No, it really is. And I think that's the

1828
01:49:27.279 --> 01:49:32.720
thing is as as films, I think they're both really compelling.

1829
01:49:32.840 --> 01:49:38.680
I would have to agree with you that Confessions is scarier.

1830
01:49:39.359 --> 01:49:44.680
It is more chilling, but something like I was as

1831
01:49:44.680 --> 01:49:47.000
you were talking, like I thought about it. I think

1832
01:49:47.039 --> 01:49:51.560
the reason for me, in particular as an audience member,

1833
01:49:52.399 --> 01:49:59.760
why I found Henry in particular compelling is because of

1834
01:49:59.800 --> 01:50:04.479
the Becky character and because because she was so she

1835
01:50:04.560 --> 01:50:07.520
was so different, she was relatable, it was a lot

1836
01:50:07.640 --> 01:50:10.640
easier for me to like feel for her and so

1837
01:50:10.760 --> 01:50:14.279
that sense of peril of like she felt like she

1838
01:50:14.439 --> 01:50:17.640
had a protector in Henry, but in the end she

1839
01:50:17.720 --> 01:50:21.319
did not. So there's kind of like that extra level

1840
01:50:22.159 --> 01:50:27.439
of that association for me, whereas in Confessions, like Becky

1841
01:50:27.600 --> 01:50:32.359
is just as reprehensible as as Otis and Henry.

1842
01:50:32.439 --> 01:50:35.079
So, yeah, well I get that for sure. I mean,

1843
01:50:35.119 --> 01:50:37.000
there's a lot to love about Henry. I don't think

1844
01:50:37.039 --> 01:50:40.680
it's any by any means a bad movie, not even vaguely.

1845
01:50:40.800 --> 01:50:45.000
And it's a phenomenal movie, I think. I mean, I

1846
01:50:45.039 --> 01:50:46.720
get what you're saying, like Becky kind of brings an

1847
01:50:46.760 --> 01:50:50.880
emotional center. But I think that's why Confessions bothers me

1848
01:50:50.960 --> 01:50:54.239
so much. Yeah, is there is no emotion because it's like,

1849
01:50:54.359 --> 01:50:57.439
look at this sky. He just drifts around doing these

1850
01:50:57.479 --> 01:51:02.279
awful things. Why because that's what he did us. I

1851
01:51:02.279 --> 01:51:05.279
don't know, but and and I do think it's just

1852
01:51:05.359 --> 01:51:08.840
more heinous as probably what really like they really pulled

1853
01:51:08.840 --> 01:51:11.520
no punches. I really mean it watching them, you know,

1854
01:51:11.960 --> 01:51:15.119
somewhat back to back made me realize how tame Henry

1855
01:51:15.159 --> 01:51:18.479
is by today's standards. Oh yeah, so, but it's still

1856
01:51:18.520 --> 01:51:22.520
absolutely worth a watch. It's still vile and challenging and

1857
01:51:22.680 --> 01:51:27.760
artful and insightful. So I think Henry is a phenomenal

1858
01:51:27.800 --> 01:51:29.680
movie and a great way to spend your time if

1859
01:51:29.720 --> 01:51:32.279
you you know, in the words of Abraham Lincoln, it's

1860
01:51:32.319 --> 01:51:34.119
the kind of thing you like, if you like that

1861
01:51:34.199 --> 01:51:40.119
kind of thing. So, uh, but yeah, I think I think, Yeah, Henry,

1862
01:51:40.319 --> 01:51:42.640
Henry's a hell of a flick, and I'm glad I

1863
01:51:42.680 --> 01:51:44.720
could show it to you. We won't be talking about

1864
01:51:44.760 --> 01:51:47.159
it on the show, but sometime I'll show you the sequel,

1865
01:51:48.960 --> 01:51:54.239
Henry Too. Okay, oh, I'm sorry the Squeakwell, no, no,

1866
01:51:54.800 --> 01:51:56.399
there's a Henry Too. I think I told you a

1867
01:51:56.439 --> 01:51:57.119
little bit about that.

1868
01:51:58.479 --> 01:51:58.640
Yeah.

1869
01:51:58.720 --> 01:52:02.039
It was directed by the guy, the guy who took

1870
01:52:02.079 --> 01:52:06.640
over the head of promotions when Henry was released in theaters. Okay, like,

1871
01:52:06.760 --> 01:52:09.279
he ended up taking a crack at it and directed

1872
01:52:09.319 --> 01:52:13.520
a sequel, and it's it's very different. It's much more polished.

1873
01:52:13.560 --> 01:52:17.439
It's much more of a regular like killer movie. But

1874
01:52:17.640 --> 01:52:19.399
I kind of it has a charm to it. But

1875
01:52:19.439 --> 01:52:22.159
it is nothing like Henry. I mean, well it doesn't.

1876
01:52:22.359 --> 01:52:24.079
There are a lot of sequels like that where it's like, well,

1877
01:52:24.079 --> 01:52:27.159
it's not that the original is something else entirely, but

1878
01:52:27.279 --> 01:52:29.800
I do find the sequel charming in its way. Yeah,

1879
01:52:29.800 --> 01:52:33.800
you know so, But with that all being said, what

1880
01:52:34.079 --> 01:52:36.279
is our next film?

1881
01:52:36.880 --> 01:52:40.720
The next film is gonna be Someone's Watching Me.

1882
01:52:41.000 --> 01:52:46.239
The nineteen seventy eight John Carpenter TV movie. Yeah. I

1883
01:52:46.279 --> 01:52:48.520
said that, like I wasn't reading it, so it would

1884
01:52:48.560 --> 01:52:50.359
sound like I just know off the top of my

1885
01:52:50.399 --> 01:52:51.600
head all of that information.

1886
01:52:51.800 --> 01:52:52.840
You are just that good.

1887
01:52:52.960 --> 01:52:54.760
I mean, I know Someone's Watching Me was John Carpenter.

1888
01:52:54.760 --> 01:52:57.560
I could do that without a prompt. But but and

1889
01:52:57.600 --> 01:52:59.199
it was a TV movie. But I don't remember the

1890
01:52:59.279 --> 01:53:01.680
year and stuff. But this is the film he did

1891
01:53:02.279 --> 01:53:07.960
right before he directed Halloween. Yeah, like right before. It's

1892
01:53:07.960 --> 01:53:12.359
called Someone's Watching Me and Let's see. It's stars Laura

1893
01:53:12.399 --> 01:53:16.920
Holton and David Bernie and Adrian Barbeo, and it's basically

1894
01:53:17.000 --> 01:53:19.560
a woman relocates from New York City to Los Angeles

1895
01:53:19.560 --> 01:53:24.119
for a job and she ends up basically being stalked

1896
01:53:24.159 --> 01:53:28.520
by someone residing in the building across from hers. It's

1897
01:53:28.640 --> 01:53:33.760
a solid cat and mouse horror. I found it really compelling,

1898
01:53:33.800 --> 01:53:37.840
and I think it's a fascinating watch along with Halloween

1899
01:53:37.920 --> 01:53:40.600
because there's a lot. It looks to me like he

1900
01:53:40.800 --> 01:53:43.800
learned a lot of tricks on Halloween, because I believe

1901
01:53:43.800 --> 01:53:47.279
the film before Someone's Watching Me was Assault on Precinct thirteen.

1902
01:53:47.439 --> 01:53:48.920
I could be wrong, he might have done one mother

1903
01:53:49.039 --> 01:53:51.960
other one before that, but Assault on Precinct thirteen is

1904
01:53:52.039 --> 01:53:54.560
very meat and potatoes. It's good. Yeah, it's very meat

1905
01:53:54.560 --> 01:53:57.760
and potatoes. Someone's Watching Me is pretty damn good, especially

1906
01:53:57.800 --> 01:53:59.760
for a TV movie. But the seventies had a lot

1907
01:53:59.760 --> 01:54:02.760
of good TV movies. But then Halloween is just like

1908
01:54:03.439 --> 01:54:05.880
a step above. Yeah. I mean that's where he really

1909
01:54:05.960 --> 01:54:09.399
found his artfulness and a lot of his cleverness. So

1910
01:54:09.520 --> 01:54:12.600
I think Someone's Watching Me as a highly underrated example

1911
01:54:12.640 --> 01:54:16.239
of John Carpenter's power and style as a horror filmmaker

1912
01:54:16.239 --> 01:54:20.479
and suspense filmmaker. And it's available to watch free free

1913
01:54:21.560 --> 01:54:24.359
with ads on two B or you can rent it

1914
01:54:24.399 --> 01:54:27.359
at Amazon Prime, Fandango, at Home, Apple TV, whatever, So

1915
01:54:27.760 --> 01:54:30.159
that is your homework. We'll be back in a week

1916
01:54:30.279 --> 01:54:33.840
or two to talk all about Someone's Watching Me. So

1917
01:54:34.960 --> 01:54:37.840
don't miss it or I'll be I'll be sad. I'll

1918
01:54:37.880 --> 01:54:38.560
be real sad.

1919
01:54:38.680 --> 01:54:40.840
Yeah, I don't want you to be sad.

1920
01:54:40.920 --> 01:54:44.920
Yeah, don't hurt my feelings. Thank you guys so much

1921
01:54:44.960 --> 01:54:48.199
for joining us on cutting Deep into Horror. Really did

1922
01:54:48.279 --> 01:54:49.760
enjoy talking with you. Guys. Remember, if you want to

1923
01:54:49.800 --> 01:54:52.840
email us, you can do so at Weekly Spooky at

1924
01:54:52.880 --> 01:54:55.000
gmail dot com. We love to hear from you, and

1925
01:54:55.319 --> 01:54:57.479
if you want to support us in a very direct way,

1926
01:54:57.520 --> 01:55:00.720
which we appreciate greatly, you can head to Weekly Spooky

1927
01:55:00.920 --> 01:55:03.880
dot com slash join for as little as one dollar

1928
01:55:03.920 --> 01:55:07.079
a month. You get two bonus episodes every month, and

1929
01:55:07.199 --> 01:55:10.920
of course my undying gratitude. I really do appreciate the

1930
01:55:10.920 --> 01:55:14.760
support very very much. But now we're gonna get out

1931
01:55:14.800 --> 01:55:18.840
of here, so stay safe and uh don't pick up

1932
01:55:18.840 --> 01:55:24.760
any hitchhikers or or leave the house. Yeah, see you

1933
01:55:24.760 --> 01:55:25.439
guys next time.