Cutting Deep into Horror | The Ritual (2017): Folk Horror, Survivor’s Guilt & the Forest Monster

Who are you there? Oh, hi. Sorry. I was just lost. I took a shortcut and I was coming through here. Oh, yes. And I got lost. Through the woods down there. Yeah. And here as well. Yeah. Oh, yes. I mean, it's all around us. It's a lot of woods. It sure is. These are gorgeous woods. We don't get a lot of visitors out this way. Yeah. Yeah. You're like the only person I've seen for like three days. Unfortunately, that makes you our prisoner. Oh. Do not worry. There are many things to enjoy as you worship.

Oh, God, there's a lot of you. Yes, yes. Oh, yes. Many, many of us. You will have a good time. You'll get to enjoy the finest in Swedish fish. The finest in Swedish bitters. We also provide Swedish massage. Okay. And Swedish-style bubs and pick and mix. What? I've never heard of that. Are you from Sweden? No. How about a Swedish meatball to enjoy? It's good for protein. Okay. Oh, you're noticing the giant creature there. I couldn't help but notice because it does. It is large. People think a lot of things about the Swedes. No, but can we.

What is on its head and why is it staring at me? On television, people think that the Swedish chef is only about four feet tall. But in reality, he is about 14 feet tall and he hungers for not just human flesh, but the humanity itself. Oh, no, no. Now, come along. The meatballs are almost ready. This podcast is about why horror scares us. What deep, dark, secret, scary cinema shines a light on. The discussions are frank and involve conversations about abuse, trauma, and mental health. There are also spoilers, so keep that in mind too. Now, sharpen your machetes and straight razors, because this is Cutting Deep into Horror.

Hello, my spookies, and welcome back to Cutting Deep into Horror. I'm your host, Henrique Couto, here with my co-host, Rachel Rodolphe. Rachel, how are you? I'm doing good. Yeah? Yeah. So good you wanted to stomp all over my improvs, huh? Yeah, sorry. I was not yes-anding very good with you there. No, you were more just anding. Yeah. They can't all be winners. Sorry, guys. Sorry. I'm going to ask to come up with the concepts and run with them. Do we need to, do we need to roll tape to the time I let you lead one?

Please. No. So, but anyway, uh, we're here this week, uh, as Halloween is, uh, very quickly approaching. Yeah. We're talking about a, a film that I feel it got a little bit of attention, but maybe kind of, I don't know, kind of. disappeared into the ether a little bit. But that's the tricky thing with these. So it's The Ritual from 2017. It's a Netflix film, so it's available. If you're in the United States, it's available exclusively on Netflix. And a lot of those Netflix movies, it's hard to really gauge how much of an audience they got.

Not only because there's no box office information, but also because you just don't know I mean, the people I knew didn't seem to watch it very intently or I didn't hear them talk about it very much, but who knows how many people discovered it. I feel like, like we just watched that one Netflix movie, The Last House. Yeah. I haven't really heard anybody talk about it, but I have no idea. Maybe it did really, I mean, like maybe a lot of people tuned in and, you know, we just didn't, weren't privy to those people. Didn't hear about it.

But the one nice thing about a Netflix movie is that it is relatively accessible. I mean, you know, Netflix can be a bit pricey, although they drop the price a lot with the ads version. So if you want to watch this film, it is on Netflix and I do highly recommend you give this one a watch. I had seen it once before and I didn't remember a ton. I mean, I remembered a decent bit about it, but I think I had it confused in my brain with another wilderness survival movie that was on Netflix around the same time.

Okay. Because at first I did not recall any supernatural element at all. Okay. I remembered, like, a hunter hunting people. Oh, yeah. And that was something. But I'm almost certain that was a different Netflix movie. It's probably also a British movie. This is technically a British movie, even though the director's American. I'm guessing when it says a British movie, that just means that the money came from Britain. That's got to be it. And I think most of the cast is British. Well, sure. But they're supposed to be Brits who go to Sweden. Yeah. You know, I mean, I get that, too.

It's just, to me, it feels like, is it really a British movie just because the characters are British? That's a good point. I mean, now if the characters are British in Britain. That's a British movie. But I would say that it's more a British movie if the film is made in Britain by British people. But this film is directed by David Bruckner, who was born and bred in Atlanta, Georgia. And David has had a very interesting career. He started out, relatively speaking, in the micro-budget world, doing a lot of anthology films. with other filmmakers. Um, the first one, unfortunately I have not seen this one, but the first one was called the signal from 2007 and it has three interconnected segments.

He directed one of them. It's a horror kind of film, but then after the signal, he did a short film called talk show, which I could not find, but then he did, um, a anthology film that became a big deal, um, called VHS. Didn't we watch VHS? I don't know. Oh, uh, came out in 2012. We might have, I really don't know. Uh, if we did, we watched it closer to 2012 today. And, but VHS was, was a big deal. Um, and I mean, they're still releasing like a sequel every single year for, for VHS.

There was one last year and the year before that, and the year before that they've got to be up to, gosh, I don't even know how, how far along they are now. Um, Oh, like it's like a check. Uh, Oh my gosh, yeah, there's one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. There are eight VHS films total, and there's already one announced for this year and next year. Oh, okay. Damn. So, yeah, Shudder's basically kind of taken over the reins on producing it, and it's made by different young filmmakers every go-around. But the first VHS...

It was a pretty new concept, the idea of making it intentionally analog. But some of the directors that were involved in VHS were Adam Wingard. I think I know that name. He did The Guest, and then he did Godzilla vs. Kong. Yeah, yeah. Okay. And he did Blair Witch. Yeah. So he was on there. Ty West was on there. Do you remember who that is? I do remember Ty West. Who's Ty West? Uh, Pearl and X. You nailed it. You nailed it. Uh, Joe Swamberg. That one. I don't. Yeah. It figures the one guy I know in the whole list.

Uh, Joe Swamberg went on to direct an immense amount of films as well as, uh, as acting in a bunch of movies. Uh, I'm a huge fan of his for most of his non-horror output, like, um, drinking buddies and happy Christmas and digging for fire. Um, those were some of my favorite movies he's done, but he's done a bunch of really great movies, uh, that I've just, yeah, I've always liked, but, uh, so yeah, VHS one was kind of a, uh, a big kind of proving ground for these younger filmmakers. And it's weird though, saying younger, because as I'm looking at this list, um, I'm realizing that almost all of them are Gen X, uh, Look, I turned 40 in like two weeks.

So I'm noticing these things. But it's just funny because it's like saying like a showcase of younger filmmakers. I'm like, shit, these guys are about how old I am now in 2012. Maybe a little younger. They were like in their 30s. Anyway, it's just a funny observation. But I do remember his segment in VHS, which was called Amateur Night, being really good. So he also directed a segment in the film Southbound. Which was another anthology film. Okay. And I really loved Southbound. I thought it was really good. We might have watched that together. I mean, it was a highway anthology movie.

It kind of rings a bell. We may not have watched it. I don't know. But he did a film that I think is very, very underrated. And then another movie that I don't know how I feel about it. He did The Night House in 2020. Which was a film about a woman who is stuck. Well, not stuck. She's living in a house after her abusive husband dies. And basically she's haunted by him. And it starts to reveal a deeper, crazy evil. It's very scary. And there's something terrifying about the idea of like being all alone and then realizing you're not alone.

But it's because the person that you wanted to escape is just still there. Yeah. Yeah. It's terrifying. It's a solid film. It didn't do super well, but it also came out in January of 2020. Wait, no, no, no. It came out in August of 2021. That's right. It was supposed to come out in 2020. Okay. So the theaters were still kind of, eh, and it did 15 million at the box office against 12 million. So it wasn't a total flop. But then in 2022, he did a little film called Hellraiser, the 2022 reboot film, whatever you want to call it, which a lot of people referred to as Hulu Razor because it was the Hulu Hellraiser.

You know, I didn't hate the Hellraiser reboot, whatever, but I didn't like it very much either. I thought it was a very weird decision to make it basically sexless. Yeah, when you, because you, I still haven't seen it, but when you told me that, I was like, that's a decision. Well, I get that some people are like, we don't need all this sex stuff in movies anymore. I mean, because overall, horror movies are less like that. Yeah. They're less focused on nudity and gratuity in that way as they used to be. But Hellraiser is literally about sexual gratification.

Yeah. I mean, that's literally the point of the film. And I love Hellraiser, but it's literally about a guy who is so perverted and depraved, the only way he can find new excitement and pleasure is to open a gateway to hell and have his soul ripped apart. That's it. Yeah, that's the story. I didn't think it was terrible, but I thought that it just kind of was missing a certain degree of oomph that Hellraiser tended to have. So that's just my two cents. But that all being said... I really like this film. Yeah. I was very impressed with how much it kind of pulled me around and took me on the ride.

And then it had a very satisfying ending as well. It does. Yeah. So that was something I was very happy about. Yeah. So yeah, revisiting this was awesome. I can't recommend enough people give it a watch. It is, for lack of a better term, I mean, it's a horror film, but it's a little bit more of a thriller. That starts to branch into kind of folk horror. Yeah. And it's not super gory, but it has its moments. They're used very, very precisely. Yes. To make the audience uncomfortable. It's got the wilderness survival element, which is super thick for most of the film for the first half, two thirds of the film.

And it's, it's, you know, it's got a big through line about trauma and guilt and grief and grief. I mean, I don't even, I don't even know if I would say it's about grief only because it happened. It's so quick afterward. I feel like, you know, like grief doesn't even have a chance to kick in. I guess so. I mean, that's, you know, we're splitting hairs because that's kind of the point of the show. But, but I mean, I'm with you though. It's like, it's about these like senses of loss and stuff like that. Yeah.

I guess it would be, it would be more, more survival's guilt than actual grief. Survivor? Survivor. Survivor. Survivor. Survivor. But yeah. So, I mean, it's, it's a, it's a solid flick. Um, and, uh, also funny because it's called a British movie stars, British actors, American director. I think an American writer too. Now I have to know it's, it's written by Joe Barton who, Oh, he's British. Okay. So that helps. Okay. And he wrote the Lazarus project, which I actually liked. Most people did not. Um, But and it was shot in Romania, but set in Sweden.

Yeah. So it was actually shot in the Carpathian Mountains. Yeah. Yeah. So but it's basically the story of a group of friends going on. They're on holiday, which is always blows my mind. These are these young guys who don't have a lot of they don't have like what do you keep looking at? You're driving me crazy. Sorry. I just saw the little ghost over there and it. Kept grabbing my attention. Your eyes dart over like seven times. I'm like, what is happening? No, but they basically... They're on holiday, which that alone, that European concept does not click.

I don't understand this idea of like, we're just fucking off for two weeks. It's like, oh, is that why your economies are just not good? In the toilet? I mean, I'm just asking questions. But so they're kind of traveling around and their buddy is like, let's go to Sweden and go hiking. Yeah. And they're all kind of like, I don't know. But then- As we find out right away, pretty much, their buddy gets killed in a robbery gone wrong. And that's pretty much the setup of the movie. Now we have a hiking in the woods, getting lost, and eldritch horror type deal start happening.

And I'm guessing, I mean, you probably know more about a lot of, although I love folklore and I try to learn a lot about it. You probably know more about European folklore. Eastern European folklore or Northern European folklore than I do. Like the monster in this is based on something of theirs that you've talked about before that I can never remember the name of. The thing with the skull head. We'll get into that more, you know, a little bit later. But that's basically the rundown of the ritual. Yeah. And that's me giving you one last chance to check it out on Netflix before we just tear through it.

Ruin it for you. Tell you every element about it. So, but we're going to take a quick break and then we'll, we'll jump into what all we think and what all we've dissected from the ritual right after this. So we're back talking about the ritual from 2017. And I do not remember the first time I watched it. I'm sure it was just like one of those home alone Netflix. Yeah. You know, pop it on. Cause I definitely watched it. Cause I recognize one of the lead actors because he was also in the big short. Oh, okay.

And although he was playing an American in that, and he's actually British. In fact, the lead actor, I think it's yeah. Rafe Spall, I think is how you say his name. R-A-F-E. Oh yeah. Rafe Spall. Yeah. He was in the big short. That's not a name. I mean, pretty much. But, yeah, I remembered him. Like, that helped me know that I'd seen the movie because I would think, like, oh, it's that guy from the big short. Okay, yeah. He was very good in the big short. Everybody was good in the big short, though. But what was the first time you watched it?

The first time I watched it was by myself, and I believe it was, like, in 2020. Yeah, oh, during the lockdown period. Yeah, during the lockdown. Like, I was looking for something to do, you know. aside from work. Yeah. Aside from DoorDash. Aside from DoorDash. Cause I was a quote unquote essential worker. So like I was one of the few people where it's like, okay, you can go out and do whatever. Like, okay, cool. Um, but yeah, so I, I sat down alone one night and watched it with my rats and was like terrified. And the reason that I wanted to watch it is because I kept hearing how good the creature design in it is.

Where'd you hear that? Uh, Just from several friends who had seen it. And, you know, I'm a huge creature feature kind of person. And what I really liked about it, and this is kind of like jumping into it, is, yeah, this does have like really great creature design. It does have supernatural, you know, like folk horror elements to it. But like you were saying, like the first half to two thirds of the movie is just like survival horror. And I really, really dig that because it's very psychological. Yeah, very, very much. So, yeah, that was my first impression.

So did you, was there anything that really started to come back to you when we watched it together? I mean, the big one was I actually mostly remembered the robbery gone wrong where his friend gets killed. I remembered that and I remembered the imagery of that, how it would be kind of pushed into the woods how there were times later in the movie where he would like look to the left and it would just be cut out of the woods would be the like looking right into that convenience store where it happened i also remembered the uh creepy house they find and how they all wake up and they've all had like different horrible nights yeah that stuff i remembered very very vividly um and i remembered some of the creepy the creepy villager stuff too yeah Although I wonder if my brain like mushed that up with the remake of Wrong Turn that came out like a year after lockdown.

That was a very interesting, I liked it, but it was a very strange way to go after the Wrong Turn movies being what they were. I'm guessing you've never seen a Wrong Turn movie or have you? No, I feel like you showed me one of the Wrong Turn movies when we were at the cabin a while back. It's possible. I've never been a huge wrong turn person, but they're nuts. I mean, the later sequels just go totally haywire. And when they did a remake of it, which was actually shot around Northern Kentucky and Cincinnati, Ohio.

Oh, really? When they did it, they decided to make them not cannibals, which just threw everybody for a loop. Yeah. was pretty much the consistent element of the entire movie series was that. Yeah. So instead, they were more of a cult and they sacrificed humans, but it wasn't... And they were like an old world. Kind of Celtic cult. Oh, okay. Or maybe Nordic. I can't remember off the top of my head, but they were like a very European cult. Okay. So that makes me think of this film. Yeah, it's very similar. In some ways, they kind of like check similar boxes.

Yeah. So, but yeah, those were the things I remembered right away. Yeah. For me, like... Obviously, the monster. I have to agree that the robbery scene gone wrong like that. As soon as that happened, a lot of the movie just like snapped back for me. Yeah. And I think like when when they were in the like when they first went off into the woods and they find the like dead elk thing hung up in the tree. I really like that had left a really big impression on me. And so like that came back to me pretty fast.

Yeah, I can see that. Yeah. Yeah. Makes sense. So, and so what made you want to put this? Cause this is one of, I would say what you pick probably, I mean, you, you usually dig up what movies we're going to watch or, or, or pick my brain randomly and I'll throw a couple titles at you and then you kind of run with it. But this is one of like, I would say maybe, what do you think? One in five, one in four movies. are straight up your choices. I'd say that's pretty good. Like you just say, let's do this one.

And sometimes I've never seen it or in this case, like I kind of remembered it, but I remembered liking it. Yeah. Which that is, you know, of a value in and of itself. So what made you feel like this one needed to be on cutting deep? Well, one, because I remember it leaving a really big impression on me, like the ending. Yeah. And once we got to the end, I remembered like, oh yeah, that is pretty powerful. Yeah. And the other thing is, as silly as it is, I thought it would pair really well with Tonight She Comes because they're both in the wilderness.

And I thought it's kind of a nice change of pace with, you know, Tonight She Comes is like really off-the-wall, goofy, kind of like, what the fuck did I just see sort of thing. And this is also... kind of like what the fuck did i just see but in a very very. Different way yeah yeah well it's it's you know it's not and it's not like a giant movie but it is a it is a higher end small movie you know it's a higher end low budget film and uh you know probably cost a couple million dollars so it's got a lot of gloss and it's got some really impressive moments and really impressive effects but yeah it has kind of a wtf-ness to it yeah i would say especially because it escalates so...

It's kind of in that way the opposite of Tonight She Comes. It escalates so gradually that you almost slip into the eldritch horror part seamlessly. You really do. No, I have to agree because even the way the creature is revealed to you and to the characters... is very slow and methodical and piece by piece. So by the time you get to the full reveal, you don't even realize that you've seen most of the creature before in bits and pieces. You just didn't have the full context for it. And it was manipulating things. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Very much. And I didn't mention, I should have mentioned, this is based on a book called The Ritual from 2011, a British novel by Adam Neville. Very British name. Yeah. That won some awards and seemed very well liked. Yeah. I have not read it. I maybe should because I like this movie so much. Like you read books. I've seen your Kindle I gave you sit on the dresser for actually might be a year. Busted. Everybody point and laugh. Everybody point and laugh. Oh, they're looking at me. It's true. It's true. But no, it's a solid one.

And it's in that... cliche space of the wilderness you know horror oh yeah which is a cliche for a reason because it is scary to be away from dial tone it's scary to be away from modern convenience and modern comfort because we don't realize that you know a modern convenience is calling for help yeah because we're so We're so spoiled. We think of convenience as things that are nice to have. But no, it's very convenient not to have to run three miles to the nearest person for help. That's highly convenient. Very, very convenient. Yes. It is.

Yeah, it is very convenient. Because you probably won't die every time you need help because you have to run a mile or two to get help. But it sure is a lot easier when you could just pick up your phone and, you know, pop them up. Someone will be there in 20 minutes. Exactly. Exactly. So, but these guys, they want to go hiking and for American audiences, it's way more exciting because they're going to go hiking in Norway, which, you know, for being in England, although I think they were in Paris at the beginning, I think they were hanging out in Paris when their friend got killed.

I think so. Or they were in somewhere other than England, I believe. Yeah. They were already, they'd already started, you know, scurrying around Europe. They'd already started their holiday. Yeah. It's funny, though, because like them going to Norway, that's that's like closer than us going to Colorado. You know, that's like them going to from where we are to Wisconsin to hike. But, you know, but for Americans, we're like, oh, that's so. So exotic. So exotic. I had to explain that when I produced that movie in the United Kingdom. I had to explain to Phil. He was like, I'm worried that like the humor is going to be too Scottish or this is going to be this whatever.

And I told him, I was like, dude, you don't understand. I'm selling this to Americans. Everything you do is exotic. Yeah. Like we're so excited. Like film it. Oh, like, oh, you're worried because you're filming it too much in rural areas. Your rural areas are like, whoa, I pay good money to see that. Look at the, look at the English countryside. That's why I was like, just lean into it. Like, yeah, because that's all, that's why we're doing it this way. We can't pay for that here. Yeah. I mean, I can't. No. Yeah. But, uh, We're going to take a quick break and then we'll jump into some more about the ritual right after this.

So the movie starts, it opens on our five friends in a pub discussing, you know, where they want to go on the next leg of their journey. And one of the friends, Dom, or no, Rob. There's so many friends. He suggests, let's go hiking up in Sweden. They stop at a liquor store, and Rob and Luke go in, and that's when there's a robbery that goes wrong, and Rob gets killed. And Luke was, like, hiding. He managed to hide behind a shelf. Yeah, a rack. A rack. But it is, like... I don't know. For me, it was a pretty heartbreaking scene because he does have that moment where he like locks eyes with his friend before he like dies.

Yeah. And you do see throughout the rest of the movie, it's reflected in he kind of carries that with him throughout the rest of the film. Yeah. So that's, you know, a huge, huge moment. I mean, who wouldn't? Yeah. No, I mean, it's kind of the big punctuating, you know, or not punctuating because that would end it. But, you know, it's kind of the big, I don't know, I'm not sure what the term would be. Inciting. Inciting incident. Yeah. Yeah. It's an inciting incident into the emotional side of the story that's being told as opposed to, you know, the drama that's unfolding with the horror elements and stuff like that.

Yeah. Yeah. So they go on this hike. They go to the peak and kind of have a little ceremony, a ritual where they sit there and like pour one out for Rob and set up his picture. Well, before Rob died, it wasn't even a popular choice. Like none of them were really into the idea of going hiking in the middle of nowhere in northern Sweden. Yeah. But now they're doing it to honor him. Just for him. Yeah. So and that's another thing is, you know, this is the first ritual of many. that is included in this movie.

So I like the way that it's kind of layered on top of each other. So as they're coming back down the mountain, Luke and one of the other friends, they do notice like often the distance down in the woods, they see like fire, like it could potentially be a lodge or, you know, people down there. But it's way off in the woods. And they kind of like just note that. So that's not when they saw the chalet, right? No. That's a different moment. Okay. Because the chalet is when they realize that's where they have to hike to.

Yeah. No. And I know what you're talking about because there's another point after they've gotten in the woods where they see fire again. Don't they? No? I think you're confusing. The moment when they're on the top of the big hill and they see a cross on another big hill, it's not in the woods. Oh, okay. That's the chalet. That's where they're heading because they even say like, I didn't think we'd be that close so soon. But then they realize that because the way the hike goes, they have to take this long route to get to it.

And then they're starting to, you know, get, tired of this crap. So that's what leads them to take the shortcut. So no, what they're seeing is the, yeah, the, the fires at the chalet that they were, they were hiking toward. Yeah. But it, it does, it does go wrong when the next day, one of the guys like twists his ankle. He busts his knee, I think. He busts his knee. And so at first it was like, we could take a shortcut through the woods because then it would be so much faster to get to the chalet.

But then it was, Well, now we have to take the shortcut through the woods because he literally can't make it the whole way all around. And he's kind of the the bitcher of the group. He's always complaining about something. Yeah. Yeah. So he was he was very pleasant to be around as as he's complaining about his busted up knee. But so that's that's what leads them to take a shortcut, quote unquote, through the woods, which is always a great decision. Never. I mean, shortcuts are the best. And I loved... Because you and I have talked about it, you know, personally, I think we've talked about it on the show.

But I love the way they filmed the woods in this. Because, you know, you and I have had the discussion that woods is woods. You can kind of point a camera in any direction and you get lost visually in it. And they... lean into that very, very heavily with this movie because they will play with, you know, how narrow the field of vision is between the trees and just like you can hardly see anything between the trees or between the branches and you kind of like lose the guys as they're walking down the path. I just think it's really effective.

Well, what they did as far as I could tell was they went for a lot of deep photography. Yeah. Which means, you know, the opposite of shallow photography. So by having more of the visual plane in focus, it makes it harder to differentiate the trees and how far away some are from the ones that are close by. So it makes everything look more dense and close together. It compresses everything together. That's a good word for it. Yeah. I mean, that is definitely an element. I mean, and the forest is just, that's a very thick, dense forest anyway.

Yeah. Cause the, the whole mantra of woods is woods comes from the fact that you can kind of point the camera anywhere once you're in the woods and it's very hard for the audience to get their bearings at all. Yeah. So, and that's true. I mean, unless you have a tree that looks very, very peculiar or it's troll too, and they do their, they do their cutaways in a spruce forest when everything else was in a regular forest. But we all can't be a masterpiece like that film. Exactly. Exactly. No, so it immediately, there's a stark contrast from when they're on the trail, you know, up in the mountains and everything, like you can see the sky and you can see all around you and then bam, they're in the woods and you can like can't hardly see like two feet in front of your nose.

The contrast is really strong because it's all wide open spaces and then it's all the opposite of wide open spaces from the moment they start the the shortcut that's a really good. Point yeah um and and almost immediately they discover something and this like i said once when we were watching this together once this happened i was like oh yeah um as they're walking along They see something suspended up in the trees, and so they turn around a bend, and there's a giant elk, dead, suspended in the trees. And it's recently been killed. It is still bleeding.

Yeah, it reminded me of the movie Predator. Yeah. Because it's hung up in the trees. It's a good 10 feet above the ground. It's not like when hunters dress an animal by hanging it off a branch. No, it's like way up there. Yeah, it would take an incredible amount of effort to do that. And it's a very large creature. It's not like a white-tailed deer where you could be like, oh, you could kind of get it up there. No, it was a very large creature. So they're all freaked out about it. They notice like there's sigils and runes around.

And then the one friend who's, like, really level-headed, he's the one who points out, like, guys, the blood is fresh. It's still dripping blood. Whatever killed this thing is probably still around. We should all leave. Yeah, we should keep moving. We should keep going. Yeah. And so they all leave, and they're immediately talking about, like, are there bears in the area? I mean, because you're in— Switzerland like what else Sweden Sweden uh what else would it be. Yeah I mean I I'm not even sure how many bears they have in Sweden but even so I mean bears have been known to do some weird stuff but they don't tend to be doing it 12 feet off the ground but they have even more things to worry about which we'll talk about right after.

This One of the great things about being out in nature is how quickly the weather changes. Can't you agree? I mean, I think it's much more aggressive when you're in mountains and stuff, though. Yeah, yeah. Than if you were in the plain states like we often are. Yeah. But, I mean, being outside, yeah, the weather is a thing. It's a constant factor. And it is also a factor for our friends in the forest. Uh, I did not mean for there to be so much alliteration there, but it happened. I was going to let it go, but okay.

Uh, cause like after they move off from finding that, that elk high up in the trees, it starts raining and it gets worse and worse and worse. And like, it's getting dark and they managed to find some kind of shelter. It's like a shack cabin. Yeah. It looks like a hunting cabin. Yeah. And, um, It's locked up. One of the friends manages to like break down a window so they can get in or break in a door so they can get in. And pretty instantly, everyone's on guard because once again, there's runes and sigils everywhere and like stuff hung up.

But that's not the worst of it. Because then they go upstairs and there's a room upstairs and there's something in one of the rooms. One of the guys finds it and he like kind of screams and like calls everybody up. And it's a giant like wicker man effigy, but it's got like antlers for arms. Yeah. And no head. And no head. So that begins an argument of like, do we really want to stay the night here or not? But the other option is we go back out in the woods and, where it's raining. And it's the middle of the night now.

And it's the middle of the night. Yeah, that's not ideal. That's not a good choice either. And there could be bears or whatever did that to the elk. So they all decide to stay in here. And that's when we start to get acquainted with how odd the flashbacks slash hallucinations to the robbery are. Right, right. Because it's not like regular flashbacks are. It's like the memory tears its way into the forest and, like, superimposes itself into the forest almost. Okay. That's a really cool way to put it. So, yeah. So our guy, Luke, he goes down to sleep and dreams that he opens up a door, but the door opens to the, you know, the liquor store.

where the robbery happened and his friend got murdered. It's the first time we get this, like, reality-bending thing where the world around you opens up to a nightmare memory of sorts. Yeah. So he walks through this nightmare memory and then comes to hearing screaming and then realizes he's outside of the cabin, runs back in. Two of his friends are still down on the main floor. One of them's Like, pissed himself. Yeah. And the other one is babbling and screaming for his wife, Gail. Yeah, he keeps yelling, Gail, Gail. Gail, Gail. And that's the friend who has the injured knee who is a bit of a complainer.

Yeah. As we mentioned. But the other friend is nowhere to be found. But then he hears, like, a voice coming from upstairs. So he goes up there and his other friend is, like, dressed down with skivvies or even like totally buck naked. I can't remember. And prostrated in front of the effigy, like praying in tongues. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you pretty much, that's, I mean, what more can you say to that? That's about it. Was he whipping him? I remember he, I don't know if it was clear how he got all these marks on him, but he has marks.

But he does have marks on him. Yeah. And we need to mention that when Luke wakes up initially, his chest is covered in blood and he's got like these bloody marks on it. Yeah. It almost looks like. He's been punctured. Yeah. Like there's like a few, like a few bloody dots circling another one. Like. Yeah. Like could. almost be a bite, but not quite. Yeah, it's just a weird concentric circles. So they immediately are like, okay, it is time to leave now. We should have left before. Now we need to leave now. But the problem is following the trail would take them like way longer.

And Dom, the friend with the injured knee, he wants to take a different trail that he feels is going to be much, much faster. But that, again, kind of causes a little fight between the guys. And this is the part of the movie where, now that I have a little more of a horror education, I was starting to get. I was reminded a little bit of the infighting in the Blair Witch Project. Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think that, you know, the Blair Witch Project pretty much nails the kind of like frustration of being stuck in the woods and you're hungry and you're lost and everything.

And I feel like, you know, anybody, it'd be very easy to compare just about any film that tries to accurately depict how people get in that way. But I agree. Yeah. And especially because they're hungry and they're wet, you know, because that's the other thing is it's very, very wet there. Yeah. I mean, it's been pouring rain. They basically have no food. Yeah. It's a bad time. They tried to, like, build a fire in the, like, wood stove in the cabin, but there was no, like, wood to burn. So it was not a good time.

No. So as they're trying to make their way through the forest, Luke... climbs up a ridge above everyone to, like, get a better view, try to, like, be a lookout and see if he can kind of discern where they're going. And while he's up there, he sees something in the trees. And it's one of those things where, like, you almost miss it. You see a hand, and it starts to move, but then your brain tells you, That hand is 16 feet off the ground. Yeah. It's high up and it doesn't make any sense to be there.

Like, how would it be? And it just moves and then hides behind a tree. And it freaks us out. It freaks Luke out. But what freaks Luke out even more is his chest begins bleeding again. So he runs back down to the rest of the guys and starts trying to tell them, like, what he saw. And this. is when things really blow up because now Dom is even more upset because Luke is like pulling their legs. Yeah. And he's starts accusing Luke saying like, we wouldn't even be here if you had saved Rob. And that's where things start to get really hinky because that level of vitriol is really not, not appropriate.

No. And it, but it's being slung and it's the first of many that we'll dig deeper into right after this. The group of friends kind of trudges along in very awkward and hurt silence. That's a good way to put it. And Luke does, he like bolts ahead and the rest of the guys are barely keeping up with him. But Hutch, the friend that's kind of like the mediator, the level-headed one. He's... Yeah, well, that's getting tested quite a bit too. Yeah, he's really pulling his weight in the group. So he's kind of like trying to lead the other guys and keep them all together.

And then they all... find something there's like this mossy overgrowth and they all stop at it because they realize that it's strange they start to peel back the moss and they find a tent yeah. And it i mean it is buried underneath brush and leaves and it's clearly been there a very long time very very you know compost is built over top. Of it basically um like the forest is done reclaiming this it is part of the forest. Now yeah that's a way to put. It so they keep digging and they find they find a wallet open up the wallet and the credit card expired in 1984 i mean that's a that's a which is a little that's a little while ago so the guy's they get a little more distressed because they're like, okay, this is kind of proof that people get lost out here a lot.

But Dom is saying this is proof that we're getting more and more close to the lodge because that would be the only explanation for why people would be camping out here in the first place. Okay. And I can see the argument, like the idea that Your first instinct is, of course, going to be that these people died. Yes. Right? Yeah, yeah. But if you want to be generous, it doesn't actually bring that much more comfort. Because if you want to be generous about it, then the other thing will be, or... Whatever came after or scared these people or what have you was just scary enough that they left literally everything, including a single shoe and their documents, their wallets, their everything.

Yeah. Which isn't that much more comforting. I would venture to say it is not more comforting. Yeah. At all. I mean, that's just my two cents. Yeah. You know, I have a feeling. I have a feeling. So, again, the guys are arguing and... You start to get the sense, as they're arguing more and more, this is not just the stress of them trying to survive. This is the more they start to see in the forest, the more they're all getting on edge because something is going on. So that night, Hutch and Luke are kind of talking and Unfortunately, the other guys cannot keep up.

Yeah, they're dragging. They're like, and Hutch is like really worried for Dom because Dom like is a complainer and he's like a crybaby. But like he is not doing well either. Like they know they're friends. So they decide that it is up to Luke. In the next morning, he should go ahead. The guys will stay behind. He should go ahead and find help. Yeah. Yeah, which would help, you know, I mean, which would be a wise move. Yeah. But they can't really enact that plan. They go to sleep that night. Luke has another liquor store nightmare.

But things are starting to change because now the nightmare knows he's there. Yeah, which is, it sounds kind of like a stupid turn of phrase if you don't see how it's done. the first few times he has these nightmares, these flashbacks, these, whatever, that's just what they are. They're, they're flashbacks. It's playback. And now all of a sudden, as things are happening, the people in, in, in these memories are noticing him watching. And it is very off putting when they first kind of look over and see you watching as the audience and then being his perspective.

It kind of reminds me of in, funny games when the bad guy in there suddenly just looks right at the camera and talks to the audience and it like startles you like oh god he knows I'm here. I'm glad that you pointed that out because as you were talking I realized what one of the things that is so unsettling about that scene is the the robber that killed Rob that kills his friend the Rob Robber the Rob Robber He, you know, like, bashes his head in, looks at Luke, but we're the camera. And he does look dead in the camera.

And I think that's part of why it's so unsettling is because he makes eye contact with us. And he looks at Luke and he he growls in this demonic voice coward which is just cruel and it's just like your subconscious to do that to you Luke wakes up and he hears screaming and Hutch is missing It's the dead of night. They all start like scrambling around, try to find him, but they realize like that's worse. So they huddle up in the darkness and like wait out the night. Which is. That's great. I mean, like there's kind of a desperation there.

Yeah. To that. Yeah. Not not my first choice for what to do to handle the situation. But I mean, what else can you do but wait and see? And the fact that the strongest of them both. As a hiker, as a navigator, as well as just physically, he's, at that time, was the least injured, the least exhausted. You know, having him get cut out is quite a blow. Yeah. It was a. Less than ideal loss, I suppose. I think that's a fair way to put it. Almost too fair. But it gets worse because they do find Hutch again.

Yeah. And it's not the way, well, unless you really hate these characters, it's not in the way you're hoping that they'll find him. And wait, his name's Dutch, isn't it? No, it's Hutch. Sorry, my brain was like, wait, Dutch? I wish it was Dutch. Because that would tie into Predator. And we'll explain why right after this. So we find Hutch, but he's not alive anymore. He's not doing too good. No, not per se. Not per se. And remember that elk earlier? Oh, yeah, that elk. Yeah. Well, he has now also been eviscerated and hung up like 16 feet up high in the tree.

And he's like, the thing about him and the elk, and we'll see other victims later, They're not just suspended, they're like impaled in the tree and suspended from the tree. Yeah, I don't remember seeing exactly how they're held up per se. Yeah, per se. Just saying per se all the time. Per se. But yeah, so I noticed this watch through that they're like impaled like in branches and stuff. Yeah, definitely. And on this watch through, it reminded me of a kind of bird. There's these birds, they're commonly called butcher birds. Oh, perfect. Great. And it's as awful as it sounds.

So butcher birds are technically songbirds. They don't have like sharp talons or beaks or anything. So what they do to kill their prey is they'll catch it and then they'll find like thorns on branches and just impale it. And... leave it there and when they get hungry they just have a cache of food that they'll just go to and there's so it's just this tiny little bird that like kills things by impaling it and looking at looking at hutch up in the tree i was just very very reminded of that because you have something that is just leaving prey up in a tree and it just reminded me of that very very much I don't know if that was an inspiration, but I would like to believe that.

I mean, nature is just the worst. It can be gross. It can be gross. It can be. It really is just, yeah, you know, just A minus. Or A minus. I meant D minus. D minus. I stand by that. Just no thank you. No thank you. On the.... So the remaining guys, we've got Dom... And Luke, and I can never remember the third guy's name. That's fine. That's fine. It's just some guy's name. Just some guy. I think it's Peter. Let's see, there's Luke, Phil. Is Phil the one who died? No, it's Phil. Phil is the one who's still left.

So we've got Phil, Dom, and Luke. They're still left. But as much as they want to just leave... They also can't imagine just leaving Dom there. Yeah, of course not. I mean, there's something inherently awful about leaving your friend's body, especially when you haven't even had the time to really comprehend that they're gone. Yeah. You know, it's really horrific. So, against better judgment, they take him down. They do take the time to, like, cover his body, but that means that They've just spent way more time in this really dangerous, dark, difficult-to-navigate forest. Burning daylight in a place where only horrific things happen at night.

Yeah, and the person that was their navigator, they just buried. So they really should get going. They start making their way through the darkness. And this is where the movie, again, really rewards you for being paranoid and looking in the background because you see this giant shape just slowly moving behind them. And you can't parse out, like, exactly what it is. It's just ginormous. I was just laughing at you saying it really rewards your paranoia because you're right. Like, that's completely accurate. And they do, like, they see lights out in the distance. Luke again, being kind of the ostracized one, he goes off to try and like figure out what's going on.

Now that's the ostracized one, not the ostrich sized one. Yes. We'll get to that. It's important to have a delineation there, but not a desalination. Not a desalination. Yes. So when, when Luke gets back, uh, He can't find Dom anywhere. Phil's just crouched in the shadows, like under a bush, just shaking. And when Luke like tries to get to him, he's like, what's happening? He just gets dragged away into the darkness like a rag doll. Yeah. Yeah. And it's it's very sudden and it's a perfect escalation because so far everything's happened when you turn away.

This is the first time we've actually witnessed something happening before. It seemed like everything always happened when everybody was asleep. And now it's, it's really interacting with them. Yeah. But Luke doesn't really have a chance to help Phil because as he's trying to like get through the forest, he stumbles forward and he's back in the liquor store and he has to like push his way through the liquor store and like knock over aisles to be able to get back into the forest just so that he can find Dom. And so his reality is very quickly breaking.

Yes. Yeah. Very, very much. And the two of them, they now know like it's now or never. So they're like, we, you know, on the count of three, we have to just haul ass through the woods toward the light and just try to get out of here. Yes, run toward the light. I mean, if you've got a better plan, I'd love to hear it. I mean, you know, whenever I've heard people yell run toward the light, it's always been a good idea. So one, two, three, they bolt. And as they're running through the woods, they can hear the creature around them.

And again, your paranoia is rewarded because it's not just forest noises anymore. You can hear something. And it feels like it's hurting them. Yeah. And as they're running, they find Phil, again, dead, impaled, suspended up in the trees. And they don't even have time to react now. No, no. There's, I mean, really, there's only enough time to... Like what's, what's, what's less than reacting. There's only enough time to like acknowledge it, you know, to go, that's, that's, that's that. And then, and then just run. They, they find a lit path. They find a small, like little cabin thing and they run into it.

What's appears to be safety. Um, and have a short moment of like, what the fuck just happened to Phil? Very short moment. Very short moment. Um, Someone comes up behind him and just knocks them both unconscious. So apparently the safety they thought they found was not so safe. Well, which, you know, thank goodness that it seemed so welcoming and nurturing before then, you know, they thought they found safety. I mean, you know, that's a stretch, a little a little bit of a stretch because it seems like there was never a safe moment at all in the entire monstrous experience.

This film's once you're lost in the woods with them, you are lost in the woods with them, but now they're actually about to kind of not be lost. And this is where the film really takes a turn that I can't, I sincerely believe could have wrecked it, but instead really kind of solidified it for me. And we'll talk about it right after this. When Dom and Luke come to, they are restrained. They're restrained. I mean, I would say they're, you know, stoic. Yeah. Level-headed. Yeah, yeah. They're very restrained. It's a good thing to be every night.

So they've been locked up, or I mean, like, chained up together. They're in a room. Yeah. There's, like, people gathering around outside. And it's very clear now that this wasn't just one building. This is a entire little village inside the forest yeah this little old lady comes and she lets Luke drink and as she's like giving him some water he realizes she's got marks on her chest just like his. Yeah they match pretty much. Like exactly and she even like recognizes and like gives him like a knowing look but this moment of brief Rest doesn't last very long.

No, not at all. Because then some guys come and they take Dom away, just drag him off. And we can hear what's happening upstairs and it's not great. Yeah, it doesn't sound like a good time. And I don't know if you caught this, but I think this was even more brutal for Luke. Because this was another instance of one of his friends and he couldn't, he couldn't help. Yeah. It's definitely a callback. Yeah. To his feeling that, you know, he should have protected his friend and couldn't. Now here he is yet again, a friend is being taken away.

And, you know, as far as he knows to be murdered and he's stuck there, he's doing everything he can to try and get out of his, out of his bindings. To the point where he's, you know, very much hurting his wrists and it's tearing away at his skin. He's trying everything in his life to get out of there and it ain't happening. He beer canned his thumb off, man. Nobody's going to get that joke. I know. I'm sorry, guys. Ah, you know. While he's like there alone listening to his poor friend be tortured, a young woman comes.

And kind of, she's the one person in the village, like the old lady wasn't even like that nice to him. She's the one person in the village that really seems like she's trying to make peace with Luke. Right. And she explains, like he asks, what's that thing out there? And she explains very matter-of-factly, it's a god. Which, okay. I guess. Yes. You know, I mean, well, okay. I'll tell you what, you know, okay. Little laughing, but okay. So what is it to you then? Yeah. You name, you name what it is. You think you're so smart.

You're like, ha ha. They say it's a God. Okay. What is it then? I'm just saying like, I can't like, can you really, you can't, it's not an animal. Cause it seems way too powerful and big for that. Yeah. I would agree with that. And she does go a little bit into an explanation of why they are able to interact with it, that they are the worshipers, and in exchange, it grants them immortality. But she makes it really clear that it needs obedience, and it needs them to worship it, but immortality doesn't mean eternal youth.

No. And she doesn't explicitly say, like, what that means. She just says, like, you get to be here forever, but that's it. Yeah, that's about it there, pal. And Luke has a choice. He can be the next person in the village to start worshiping this creature, or he can be the next victim. Those are his two choices. Well, the weird thing is that, I mean, yes, like, what you're describing is exactly the plot points. It doesn't, the way it's presented doesn't make it sound like, I'm trying to think how to put this, not that like you don't have a choice because like we've got a gun to your head.

I mean, they make it sound like it's not a choice because it's simply like no one would ever choose the other one. Like if the options are eternal life or immediate painful death, but also because I guess they're starry eyed to their, their God. Yeah. Because I really, it's hard to describe, but, like, the sense I got was that they described the option as basically not an option, but not in that, like, threatening kind of way. Yeah, no, no, absolutely. It's more just like it's very obvious what you'll choose, because who. Would choose anything other than this life we have?

Well, no, but it feels beyond that, I guess. But who would choose not, who would choose to not have what we have? Yeah. You know? Oh, yeah, yeah. Like a deep brainwash thing. cult mindset is my point. And probably a lot of that is to be able to stand oneself for the choices you made by having the idea like no one, why would anybody ever refuse this? Like it's impossible to refuse an opportunity like this. It might also be a way to kind of like cope with the fact that they're a bunch of monsters who worship an even bigger monster.

Yeah. That's just my thought. Yeah, there is. No, I think that's a very good point. And I think that touches on one of the theses of the movie is. Theses? Theses? Thesai? Thesai. What is the plural? I guess, would the plural of thesis just be thesis? I think it'd be theses. Theses? But now I'm checking. Yeah, it's theses. Theses. Theses. Okay. So I guess one of the main theses of the movie... is about the mindset of survivors. Yeah. Because that's Luke. That is, in essence, that is anyone who is living in this village is a survivor.

They have made a decision. Yeah, that's a really good point. So that, you know, maybe it's getting too deep into it, but I guess that's kind of like as we finish the movie, we kind of learn like maybe Luke is He's the one who confronted it the right way. And the village, you know, they're the ones who just kept their heads in the sand and didn't really confront anything. But we'll get to that in a little bit. Yeah, we're on our way there. We'll get there. Because they have plans for Dom. You know, like, they bring him back.

Luke and Dom get a chance to, like, talk a little bit. And Dom knows he's doomed. Yeah. And Luke's like trying to tell him, he's like, no, I'm almost out of my bonds. Like we can make it, we can get out of here. I mean, he's literally saying things like, you know, I, I won't let this, I won't let anything happen to you. Like, yeah, it's just period. And his buddy's just kind of like, dude, it is what it is, man. Yeah. Like Dom has kind of made peace. Yeah. He's definitely in the acceptance phase and it's, uh, it's really sad to see, but it's also just kind of, I mean, he starts doing the thing, you know, the tell my wife thing.

Yeah. Which is, you know, one of the ultimate, you know, movie cliches. Yeah. Tell my wife I love her. It's pretty heartbreaking in a movie that is pretty consistently heartbreaking from about minute three. Yeah. But things are going to get stranger and go in directions you might not be expecting right after this. So what was going through your mind when the villagers dragged Dom up and tied him up and put him out in the village square? Because there's this acceptance in his face. Yeah. And then we're bracing for this creature to come out of the woods.

And then we see his face and we see this look of relief. and almost like admiration wash over his face. And then we see a woman walk out. Of the woods. Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So were you already thinking like, oh, the creature is playing tricks or what were you thinking? Well, the fact that he was screaming out to his wife, that first night when they were all having their different types of night terror stuff happening, I kind of figured that it can change its appearance probably to usher compliance to an extent.

Yeah. Which actually made me wonder, because this creature, do you remember what that, That type of being is that it kind of looks like there's a festival in Europe that they do where that being exists. Well, I did some research and the director and the creators said that they were inspired. Like they did research and were inspired by Norse mythology and the Jotun, which are like the giants. That's the word. But that's the thing with the like skull head too, right? Mm-hmm. Because Jotun is translated as giants, but that's a more loose term. It's any kind of supernatural, preternatural, all-powerful being that is not a god.

I'm looking at some of them online. Yeah, they are tall and a lot of them have weird animal heads with arms and stuff coming out of their heads. So I would, I mean, I would say it's more than a little inspired. I'd say it's pretty much what it's going. Pretty derived from. So, I mean, we obviously see this kind of thing, this kind of elder God thing. Yeah. Right. And when he, when we see his perspective and it's his wife walking up to him and he's happy to see her, there were a few, I actually had a lot of thoughts about this part of the film.

And one of them was that he, His smile and reaction to her was not necessarily that he believed she was there because he was surprisingly cogent. Remember how he was like, I'm going to die. Yeah. Like, he's like, no, he's like, just you get out of here. Promise me. Cause I'm going to die. No, you're not. I'm going to die. So part of me thinks that he's so cogent that the reason he smiled is that he was just happy to see her face because he knew this was part of his death process. That this thing lies and betrays your mind and takes advantage of anything human in you.

So that's number one, a thought I had. I'm not saying that I 100% think that's what happened, but that is something that crossed my mind. But that opened up to me something else, which is I wonder what the followers see when they look at him. Because we never see their perspective. You know, that's a really good point. So what if they don't see what it looks like? Or if you want to go even further, what if because our perspective is strictly the hikers, what if the way that we're seeing it as the hikers perspective is just based on what they vaguely know subconsciously about Norse mythology?

Because they're in northern Sweden. I mean, it could be. So the being could have no corporeal form that you can necessarily fully grasp, or that could be its real form. I mean, that's the part that's definitely a little bit harder to say. And I will say it's a little bit of a stretch, I mean, because they don't really show it changing form constantly. No. But that's kind of the genius of... the creature design and you know and you know me i love monsters i love monster you know design but so the thing is kind of like a centaur it's got like a half uh elk or deer body and then it's got a human-esque torso where the neck would be right and then a deer skull head but It's got, like, multiple arms, and the antlers look like they could also be arms.

Yeah, yeah. And it almost looks like it's absorbed worshippers into its corporeal form. Could be. Like, that's kind of the— so, and that's what's cool is, from one angle, it looks more like a more traditional monster, and then from another angle, it looks more like a more human creature. kind of thing yeah and when it moves it's got you know those weird movements that it will rear back and then move its antlers but the arms will wave around and it's so it's it's like really weird and every angle is. Different yeah it's kind of like um like if you asked someone to draw the wendigo but they had like weapons grade adhd yeah Weapons grade.

I like that. Yeah, that's a new one I just came up with. I feel like that's how you end up with the kind of Yotun that's in the ritual. Yeah. Weapons grade ADHD. You're welcome. I'm glad you enjoyed that. So, but this is the big reveal. Because at first, as the creature, the being comes out, it looks like Gale. And Dom looks relieved. you know, almost starts crying seeing her. And he does like get down on his knees because he's so relieved. And then once he falls to his knees, that's when he sees what it truly is.

And it picks him up, you know, and does what it is known to do, which is impale things on trees and then leave them to die. And it does that. And as it's doing that, you know, Luke is in there Breaks his thumb so that he can get out of his bonds. Yeah. And he hears what's going on. He sees through slats in the wood. He sees what's going on. So he knows that it's just him now. And so now that there's no chance for him to save his friend, the only option is get revenge.

Or as much revenge as he can. Well, that's the thing, though. I mean. what does this guy have to live for? There's no reference to a girlfriend at home. There's no reference to, I mean, there's really no reference to his life outside of, of there. I mean, like the most, the most reference to his life outside of the, the holiday is gosh, I don't even remember. Did he give an example when they were all hungry really early in the movie and they each said the thing they wanted? Cause one guy was like, I want a steak.

And the other guy was like, I want sushi. And the other guy was like, I just want a burger and fries alone. Because he's a family. He's like, I just want to eat a burger and fries by myself. No one bothering me. Nobody's trying to get my attention. But I don't even remember if Luke... He doesn't really even give an example. So we have so little of him that's outside of this space. And that matters because when that woman was explaining... What motor, right, was the name of the creature? Modar? Yeah. Yeah, Modar. Well, it sounded like they were saying mother.

Yeah, yeah. So it might be because they are saying mother in Swedish, for all I know. For all I care. No, but my point is, remember when they say that he was chosen, I mean, they say it's because he carries this pain with him. Yeah. And that's an interesting element because... you can't really torment him with anything that hasn't already happened. So everything he envisions, everything that they make him envision to terrorize him, to torment him, it's in the past. As to where we don't really see entirely what everybody's tormented with, but obviously this guy's wife, it was tormenting him with visions of his wife, his wife who is waiting at home for him.

So it must have been You know, making him think that she was in danger or that he would never be able to see her or something like that. So he's reaching outward. His desires, his thoughts, his feelings are reaching outward. While Luke has nothing. And I think that might be what the creature preys on. I think that's a really good point. Because what we... What we learn about it is it clearly uses the thing that has the most control over people to get in and to get to get their worship. So, you know, with Luke, it's his trauma.

With Dom, it's his wife. Phil, he was the one who was up there praying to the effigy and like, you know, flagellating himself um you know he's even the one who's he was like immediately like the creature got into my head yeah um and and is totally freaked out by the fact that without having even met it it made him pray to it yeah and and he's one of he kind of does come off as a little more like spiritual or religious of the guys so it it uses what you hold i was Whole deer makes it sound weird because trauma.

It's not a deer. It's a yutin or whatever. Yeah. But it's the thing that you enshrine in your life. Yeah. Yeah, I would agree. Although I think it might be a little bit more direct. Yes. And I'll explain that right after this. My point is, I mean, I think it's preying on people, but I think that as much as it needs, and I know that I talked about this when we watched it last time and we'll go into it more once we talk about the finale. It needs sacrifices, but it needs praise. Yeah. And the only way to make Luke a perfect future followers to take everything else from him too.

It's almost like, It's almost like his despair is like a spark. Yeah. And he has to push, the creature has to push kindling to it. Yeah. To build a full fire to warm itself and survive. So that's what the whole movie kind of is, is just keeping that spark of despair and hopelessness and solitude alive. Yes, yes. And growing it, gardening it until it goes from being a sprout to being, you know, a mighty oak tree that it can hang a corpse from. That's kind of the way I see it developing. And I think that that makes sense because when you see how the others in the tribe are, this little whatever tribe in the woods...

it seems like they were all the last of their group, you know? So it seems like that's what it does is it is by taking, it makes you join it, whether it's by whether you want to look at it as feeding a, an amount of grief so much that it can't like that, that that hole can only be filled by like worshiping an elder God or just it being that by it, killing all your friends, you now understand how powerful it is. It could go either way. Oh, yeah. And it could be that it depends on the personality of the person that it sees is capable of accepting it, I guess.

Yeah. Or something like that. And I have a funny... When we get to the end, I have a funny kind of turn of phrase on that because I think that this movie is very funny to compare to Midsommar. I was. I'm glad you're saying that because I was thinking as we were watching it, like, man, this has got like all the shit that I like that Midsommar I hoped would have and it didn't. Well, I mean, they're both in Europe and that's really the big. That's it. Yeah. Well, but you know, but there's, but there is a trauma element because Midsommar is about trauma as well.

But we'll talk about that once we get to the resolution, the climax, because that's where I feel like it's the best point to make a comparison. Yeah. Yeah. So but I derailed a lot with that. But that's what I that's kind of what I got from it was this kind of sense that it creates lost souls so that it can find them. I think that's a very good comparison. And it ties into it very much ties into what's going to happen in the movie next. Yes. As Luke escapes because he escapes. He finds a torch.

so he can kind of like see he runs upstairs. Luckily the place is just maggoty with candles and torches. Cause I, I guess the utility company hasn't really run any lines yet, or they took it down. They're like, for the last time, pal, we told you, you put corpses on the lines. That's public property. You can't just use it any way you want. I don't know why I'm from Boston. Quit asking. Just has to be that way. Yeah. It's the law. So, uh, Luke finds the, I guess the ultimate, um, the, the ultimate, I wouldn't call it goal, but the ultimate, um, consequence of worshiping the creature.

Cause he finds some of the immortal. Well, so he, yeah, he walks into like the steeple kind of spot. He hears like chanting. Yeah. So he goes in there. Cause that's where they took, uh, uh, That's where they took Dom the first time for some kind of ritualistic torment or something in front of that congregation up there. Yeah. But it looks literally when you first see it, it looks like a room full of mummies of mummified corpses. Yeah. But then we start to realize that they're, I guess, closer to alive than dead. Mostly alive. Alive enough that they can move vaguely.

Yeah. They like start to turn their heads to look at him. Yeah, yeah. And they start to acknowledge him. And it's very awesomely creepy. And suggest what you were mentioning about eternal life doesn't guarantee eternal youth. Yeah, it just means you're sticking around to worship this thing forever. Yeah. And I love this sequence. This is the sequence that made me go, this movie's boss. And I love it because I like to consider myself not a vindictive person. But when really awful things are done to people, I love it when it comes back. Karma. That always makes me happy when it comes back.

Like, I love a movie where there's some person who just messes with people with impunity. And now all of a sudden, you know, they're laying on the ground begging for their lives. And somebody's like, oh, is it mean that I'm going to kill you? Is murder mean? And then they kill them. I'm like, yeah, that's the most vindictive I get when I'm watching a movie. But like- I love that as, that he, it's, it's the performance is perfect here because he's, he's observing all of this, right? He sees them turning. They're obviously not a threat.

This is ghastly horror. But yeah, what are they going to do? They can't even get up. Dust on him? Yeah, yeah, exactly. They can't even get up. But, but after he just kind of, but he basically like looks around and looks around and then once he fully figures out what this is, he just starts touching the torch to the bot, to the people. Yeah. And I just, it's just the way he does. We both cheer. You're like, yeah. It's so matter of fact, though, just tap and they're and then tap. And I'm like, yeah, that's what I want.

Cause he promised his buddy revenge and he, and, and frankly, why wouldn't you want revenge against these people? Yeah. And, and yeah, I don't know. There's something so poignant about what he, what he's been through and what his journey has. has been because it started very recently. Mm-hmm. You know, I mean, like we said, the movie starts with his friend dying, and they're on the same holiday they were on, so it could have only been a few days. I think in the movie it says it's been like six months. Oh, no, you're totally right. But that is still like six months is.

Not a long time. But you're totally right. No, you're totally right. They restart... yeah the holiday for him right so no no you're totally right um but it's still yeah very fresh and it's clearly stuck with him and i think that survivor's guilt is something i wish would be would be dug into more i think it's a a really fascinating uh curse it is for for a person who's fortunate enough to live to have. Yeah well and and also think of it think of luke's growth and progression because the movie starts with the main inciting incident being his inaction kind of culminating in the loss of a friend and culminating in.

All of this. Well, his interpreted inaction. His interpreted inaction. By the time he realizes that this is a seriously dangerous situation, his friend's already dead. Yeah. I mean, he's already laying on the floor bleeding out. And the only option is Should I go and get beaten up? Should I get my head bashed in too? Right. But that's kind of the darkest part is it's like, yeah, it's like I should have died too. Your mind is the one telling you like, yeah, I could have done something. Well, dying as well. No, but I mean, but I don't think he ever believed.

That's kind of why I love this concept. I don't think he ever believed he could save his friend. I think it's literally what he regrets is not dying that day as well. Yeah, I get what you're saying. And that's why I think it's really like fascinating and sad and, you know, but it has a beauty in its honesty about how dark the mind can go over loss and regret. Oh, yeah. But we'll take a quick break and then you can, you know, get back on the track I stole you off of right after this. So we're cheering Luke's burning the mummy people.

And that obviously gets the notice of the villagers and the Jotun. Because I can only assume it would notice that it's not getting worship from certain people. Yeah, because they're blinded. of eternal life is to literally what's that phrase like sit in not in pew what's the term when you're sitting in in like a congregation or whatever. Oh I wish I knew but I don't I don't remember. Okay fair enough. Yeah I can't I can't remember I didn't think you did. I was waiting for you to keep going. Oh. So he runs downstairs and finds a rifle and grabs it.

So he's at least got some way to defend himself when he gets out of the building. And the young lady that had talked to him, like, runs out and tries to reason with him. Like, you don't want to do this. And she... she is, you know, clearly one of the newer converts, but she's got full faith in the Jotun, and that's very clearly misplaced trust, because as she's trying to, you know, reason with Luke, he's getting upset, and the creature is getting upset that she's standing between them, so it just grabs her and kills her.

Yeah. One of its own followers because it was, because she was standing in the way. So we're getting even more of a sense of like this creature really does not care about its followers. It really is just using them as a source of power. And it wants Luke now. So he shoots it, but that doesn't do much except anger it. But it does give him enough time to like start running off into the woods. And it starts to, tearing down the village. It's like a child throwing a temper tantrum because it didn't get its way.

That's kind of what it reminded me of. So it's chasing Luke through the forest, and as he's running, again, it's so cool the way the liquor store just invades the forest. It's not overlaid. It's like the lighting even changes. It's like that gross... euro trash green fluorescent light yeah yeah which is great style which is really great and it it the creature is messing with his mind and he seems to at this point kind of recognize it and now when it when it when it confronts him and like stops him and he doesn't It forces him to his knees, but he doesn't like bow.

And you can see that he's finally confronting the trauma because it's kind of like the forest and the liquor store are totally merged now. So it's like he's totally accepted it. And he manages to stand up. He's got an axe and he runs behind the tree after like striking it with the axe. And as he's running, he manages to like break through the tree line and the creatures galloping, galloping, and it just stops dead. Well, and the way he breaks through the tree line is by running through the vision. Yeah. Which is, which is, that's the thing is because, I mean, you mentioned that, that the, uh, liquor store became a part of the woods.

Like all of a sudden, like the floor of the liquor store was the woods floor, but it was built in the woods. So it didn't feel like it was, um, inserted anymore it felt like it was literally the same space entirely yes and that was one of my favorite moments was he he runs through that vision and that and that was when i realized like oh man it's he it shows him that to get him to go the opposite direction he needs to go yeah which is a great symbolism of he had to face what he was hiding from or running from if he ran into it he would be okay he could get to safety but if he runs away from it Well, the only other arms are Motor.

Yes. It's waiting for you. Yeah. So, yeah. No, it was really cool. Like, as he burst through the door of the liquor store and. That rhymed. Burst through the door of the liquor store and ran, you know, ran through the tree line. And he's suddenly, like, in a field, like, really close to a road. And Motor, like, stops dead at the trees and just roars. And it's this deep, like, primordial, like, really, really screechy roar. Yeah. Luke turns around, and I love it, he screams back. Yeah. And it's so, it's, like, so powerful. He screams back, and then the Jotun turns around, it starts going back into the forest.

He, like, takes a moment to breathe, walks toward the road. And that's the end of the film. But we realize as it's ending that the way he won, like you're saying, is instead of running from what scared him, instead of running from the trauma, he ran toward it. He confronted it. He finally took action and I wouldn't say embraced it, but enfolded it into himself and was like, okay, this is what happened and This is how I'm going to get through it by accepting that this is what happened. Yeah. Well, I think that what motor was going for was when, when it got to look into all of their minds to start plotting, whatever it does, it saw his despair and pain and was like, if I give you more of that, like you're already nearly lost.

So I give you more of that. You will be lost and then you will be mine. So I'll get these sacrifices and then I'll get another worshiper. But what I loved about him turning back and screaming back at it is it really showed what a little bitch motor is. But I mean, we're laughing, but I mean, it's the best way I could describe it because this thing is so powerful. Is so strong. It's an elder god. A god of a forgotten time. It can't walk out of the tree cover. Yeah. It's stuck in its own woods.

Well, but it can't because it can't live without. Its home is where it's worshipped, feared, revered, etc., etc. It has to have those things or it dies. Mm-hmm. Our man Luke, he's a free man. He's a man of his own choices, his own volition. He can walk into any woods he wants. He can walk out of any woods he wants as long as he chooses. He's free. Yeah. Motor is a prisoner of what it is. Oh, I like that. It literally has no ability without the worship of others. Yeah. It's like living a life of seeking validation.

It ends up being very empty and disappointing and stressful. Yeah. That's why when he screams at it, I think that's because at that moment he realized, I am stronger than this god himself. The only thing that makes this god so strong is that people believe in its strength. I mean, at the end of the day, that's the number one thing. I mean, don't get me wrong. It's a giant beast. But who knows how weak it got by the time all of its followers were gone. I mean, because another thing to keep in mind, like, did Motor kidnap the guys and lock them up to wait to be sacrificed?

No, it was the people. That did it. Motor was doing stuff when no one was looking. Motor is a coward in the night. So that I think is a, is another element that's really worth thinking about because when, when he catches up with Luke, as we were saying, like before he finally runs through his vision and finds the tree line, the creature, everybody else that we've seen, he lifts it up and kills it. But him, he was pushing him down to his knees because he needs worship. Yeah. Yeah. And I wonder if it killed it because all of his followers were dead.

And that was why he didn't kill him in revenge like that. It's a petulant God. So it killed all of its followers and then was like, oh, well, I got to make sure I have one. Yeah. Yeah. And that's why it especially like it roars out. Maybe that maybe that wasn't in rage or to intimidate. Maybe that was it realizing that its time has come in desperation. There's no one left to worship it. No one left to observe it. And that's something that really got my imagination going with this film. Yeah. What was that element?

Because yeah, once it couldn't cross the tree line, it's like, how weak can you get? You can't take three steps because then you'll be in man's world and you can't exist there. Yeah. Because you have no power. Fascinating to me. No, it is. It is very fascinating. And that was, that was why it left such a big, impression on me is because of that that underlying concept of you know a god is only as powerful as it is because of its followers and once you once you remove that like it's really not nothing no you're not.

Wrong and and we'll we'll dig into it a little bit more right after this If you want to go even deeper, oh, by the way, before we keep going on that, adoration is what it's called. Adoration. Adoration. Sorry. So when we were talking about the church full of the mummy people who are sitting in the pews, but there's no service. Yes. They're just sitting there. That's called sitting in adoration or Eucharistic adoration in certain Orthodox, Catholic, and Lutheran faiths. Okay. That's basically where you're allowed to rest because you're with God, basically. Okay. Like when you go back to like the early days of churches, because, you know, rest was pretty rare.

There was this idea that like one of the perks of church was that you could sit in adoration of God and relax. You know, no expectation to do anything. You're not even actively worshiping because there's no service. Yeah. But you're waiting for the eventual Eucharist or the eventual preaching or whatever. That's what I was trying to think of. They're all sitting in adoration. Okay, cool. They're in permanent adoration. That's where you get to be once you have nothing left. You're sitting in just praise of this God. But it's also interesting because I think about this a lot lately, this whole concept.

Because every now and then you'll talk to somebody. I'm not a religious person. but you'll talk to people who are also not religious people, but they're, it's some kind of like a, of a flaky spiritual spirituality thing. And no, no hate, but like sometimes they say stuff and it doesn't make any sense to me. And one of them is that they, they, they, they pulled this thing where like, they kind of believe like every God that was ever written about was real. And then something happened to them, which is interesting, an interesting concept. And, but in that concept would suggest that it's the amount of believers you have that, gives you your literal power as opposed to figurative power.

If it's, you know, all just games of men. Um, so that was the other thing I was thinking about too, is like, you know, it's possible that this being was worshiped by like everybody in that part of, uh, Sweden for, you know, hundreds of years. And then one day, you know, whether it was, um, uh, Christian settlers or it could have been anything or even just like other pagans, you know, came along and all of a sudden it gets pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed until it's this little corner of the woods. Yeah. So I don't know.

I just thought that, that was the other thing I thought of too, is that it seems like they're going for that, like that idea that like no literal power comes from belief. Like as in the more belief it has, the more powerful, literally it can like lift you up off the ground. Yeah. But it has no followers. It can't do anything. Like Freddy Krueger, basically. Yeah. Once people stop being afraid of him, he has no power. If you die in the woods, you die in real life. I mean, that is completely accurate. But no, so that was just a side thought I had.

But you were, what were you saying about this elder god being knocked down by this uh luke by him being tough guy oh man his name is even luke a biblical name. It is a very biblical name. And actually now i'm curious are all i think he's the only one with it yeah he's the only one with a biblical name because there's luke phil hutch dom and robert he's the only one with a biblical name yeah i'm pretty sure well philip might have been biblical actually is biblical okay then i'll give up maybe i don't know i don't know anymore that's fair I mean, yeah, it's Phil Phillips, totally a big biblical name.

I give up. Okay. I was trying to make a good point. You make a good point then. Jeez. I'm pointing at him. So no, but no, I really like, I really like where you're going with that because I did get that sense from the, the world building and the storytelling of this, that the, the, they were kind of going with that concept. Like, the more believers there are, the more powerful a god is. And so, you know, that's why, kind of why Luke was able to escape is once he killed a bunch of the mummies and once Motor killed a bunch of his own followers, there wasn't anyone there to believe in him.

So it was that much easier for Luke to take control and believe in himself so that he could get free well there's. Also the element that it's kind of giving a like a humanity although not you know a great humanity to what makes people so desperate that they would believe in something so like by everybody else's definition. Evil yeah no no that's that's very true and i mean there's something to be said Again, going back to the whole concept of, you know, survivors, people who survive traumatic incidents build up weird beliefs and weird, you know, they develop weird head spaces because they've survived trauma.

So it's kind of like your brain rewires itself a little bit. So that's very similar. You know, the believers of motor were able to kind of overlook all these heinous things that it does. Because they survived. So that makes it okay. Yeah. Well, because, and because motor made it seem like it was by his grace that they survived, which is to some extent true. But, um, you know, if I, if I push you over the, uh, over a balcony and then grab you before you fall over, I mean, I didn't save your life. I, I just almost killed you.

I mean, you know, but it depends on which way you look at it. Like glass glass half empty or is it half, uh, full of paganist bullshit? You know, that's, that's, you know, that's, uh, kind of where, where my mind went with it, with it is that, you know, this, this idea of lying, I, I hate the idea of taking advantage of people when they're at their weakest or when they're at their most desperate. And that's usually when people are grieving and they've been victimized, they've experienced loss. Those are usually the times when people get taken advantage of by cults and get taken advantage of by faith healers and psychics and all the mystics, churches.

That's where it happens. Yeah. And that's what I think is actually kind of underlying all of this to an extent is, you know, look at these people that are all so desperate and so scared that they would believe this reality. ridiculous thing that is real. Yeah. Somehow. Yeah. Um, but when we get back, I'm going to tear into midsummer a little bit and then we'll kind of wrap up and, uh, and tell you about what we're going to be watching next time, right after this. I know there are a lot of Midsommar lovers and that's fine.

There's nothing wrong with loving a movie because you do. I thought that Midsommar had a lot of promise, but there were also a lot of things that really bothered me. Like the characters had to be kind of unmitigatedly stupid to just always stick around when things were getting really crazy. Yeah. But a lot of horror movies have that problem. So I'm not going to say that that's the destruction of it. Yeah, it's not special to Midsommar. And I mean, the movie's really just about how white people just desperately want to join European cults. Yeah. That's mostly white women, especially.

In particular, yeah. But that's what it's kind of about. But my biggest problem with Midsommar, and I know I'm not the only person who thinks this because I posted a video of me saying this on TikTok. It was out of context from a podcast I'd done. But I mentioned that my problem is that the moral of the story becomes, if you are a victim of, And you've been traumatized, then you are just malleable and can be convinced to do anything awful. And it doesn't matter. Like, you are ruined forever. Yeah. And literally, some people were commenting, like, what are you talking about?

And some people were saying, like, Midsommar? Question mark. And I was like, yeah, people, I'm not the only one who thought that that was kind of the moral. Because a lot of people were like, good for her. And I'm like, yeah, good for her. She found a new abusive relationship. Right. She didn't have any progress as a human being. Yeah, she just lived. She's worse. Yeah. Same shit, different day. I mean, I think it's worse to work for a murder cult than to have an asshole boyfriend. And he wasn't even, he was kind of an asshole, but he was just dense.

Uh, I mean, yeah, I mean, he could have been a lot worse. I'll give you that. But my point is that in that film, a cult sees like pay dirt with a traumatized young woman and is like, we're going to give you everything you want. And all you have to do is like, you know, aid in a bed, constant murder. And she was like, dope. But, in this movie, it's like, Hey, we've taken away everything you hold dear in every way possible and tormented you so deeply. Um, and, and then it's like, but you're gonna, you persevere and realize that you are your own person and that what matters is what you do every day and how you live and the things you, the promises you keep.

That's a good, to me, that's a great ending. Yeah. Really solid, uh, you know, hero's journey. Yeah. No, I absolutely agree. Cause he doesn't just escape. He potentially ends the entire, the whole shebang by just believing he can. Yeah. Actually that's too strong. I don't even think he believed he could by just doing it. You could try. Yeah. That's all. Yeah. That's all it was. Cause that's why I think when he just starts lighting them on fire and it's so matter of fact, I think it's cause he just was like, he just, his brain was like, start now.

Yeah. You know, just start the revenge now. Like not knowing if he would complete it. Yeah. It's like, well, at least you take this step. Yeah. Well, you know, one step at a time, you know, one, you know, one day at a time, one foot in front of the other. So just like the drunks. But yeah, so I love this movie and I think it has, it has something to say about how a survivor's mentality is not a curse, you know, especially when it comes to like, I think it's implied, you know, by him surviving and, their deaths don't have to be a mystery.

Their families don't have to wonder, even though it's a horrible thing, they'll get to have that closure. And I think that that's important and beautiful. So I, I love this movie. Uh, I think it has a lot to say. I think it's a fun, creepy woods romp that has, you know, some eldritch horror elements that has some, some great stuff in it. It really does. Yeah. I, I, I'm glad we watched it again. I, um, Yeah, the second watch through, I think I like it even more than the first. I agree. I think it has a lot to say.

I think that it has a lot to offer. And I like it so much more than Midsommar. Damn. You hear that, Ari Aster? Yeah, he's too busy. I don't know. I don't have a joke. I can't believe he made two really expensive movies back to back that did a really bad job. I don't hate the guy. I mean, he made one really good movie. Hereditary is pretty solid, although I didn't really like the ending that much. But that's a personal taste thing, I think, more than anything. Kind of like I love The Witch, but I didn't really like the full ending.

Yeah. I really didn't like the last bit of either ending. But then he made Bo is Afraid, and we both really, you know. Well, you know. But anyway, we're not here to crap on that, but I will say, I mean, everything I hated about how Midsommar treated the topic of traumatized people and and hurt people this movie did it really well yeah did it in a great way i agree so that's that's where i stand on the ritual. Yeah i yeah that's where i stand too and i'm not gonna stand too close to the woods because then motor will get me.

Yep you're exactly his uh his i really am though yeah and out in the woods all the time oh dear so Well, what are we talking about next show? Because we have one more film before we enter spooky season, officially full-blown spooky season, you know, October, and we'll be covering some appropriate Halloween-y movies. But what are we covering next show? Next show, we're going to be covering The Cell. From 2000. Yeah. A kind of turning point horror film. that was breaking the mold that was being established by scream by kind of doing something different after the trend had been established by scream the whole meta slasher self-aware thing.

But the cell goes in a whole other way, a dreamy direction. I've always felt that the film was kind of underrated, although it was a pretty big deal when it came out. Was it a flop? I came out too long ago for me to have known that. As a kid, if it was a flop. Yeah. No, it was not a flop. It did $ 104 million against a $ 33 million budget. Holy cow. So it was a phenomena. Okay. Good for them. And if you've never seen The Cell, it's available to rent, buy on YouTube, Google Play, Apple TV, Fandango at Home, Amazon Prime Video, basically anywhere you rent movies.

Yeah. You can check it out before we talk about it in a week or two. I highly recommend it. Well, what was that? How'd that go? So, uh, with that all being said, anything else you've got to say? I'm afraid to, cause my tongue doesn't want to cooperate now. That is very fair point. Well, Thank you all for joining us here on cutting deep into horror. We sure do appreciate it. If you want to send us an email, whether it's to recommend a film, tell us we're right or wrong about a movie opinion, anything at all.

We'd love to hear from you at weekly spooky at gmail.com. Just send us an email. We'd love to hear from you. Also, if you love this show and you want to help us in a very direct way, there's two things you can do. One that doesn't cost a penny, which is to head to Apple Podcasts or Spotify and leave us a five star rating. So other horror movie and horror story lovers will know they're in the right place. Or you can head to weeklyspooky.com slash join, where for as little as $ 1 a month, you get two bonus shows every month and over six years of exclusive audiobooks and creepypasta readings at weeklyspooky.com slash join.

So thank you guys so much for joining us, and we'll be back next time to talk all about The Cell and J-Lo. Until then, stay out of the woods. What? She's in the film. She is. Jeez. And we'll catch you next time.