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Oct. 17, 2025

Cutting Deep Into Horror | Candyman (1992): Urban Legend, Race and Gothic Tragedy

Cutting Deep Into Horror | Candyman (1992): Urban Legend, Race and Gothic Tragedy
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Cutting Deep Into Horror

Candyman (1992) follows researcher Helen Lyle into Chicago’s Cabrini-Green, where repeating an urban legend makes her part of the story she intended to study.

We dissect Tony Todd’s commanding performance as Candyman, Virginia Madsen’s descent into madness, and the real-world setting of Chicago’s Cabrini-Green housing projects, where folklore and fear intertwine. From the gothic tragedy of Helen Lyle to the legacy of Candyman as a mirror of societal anxieties, Henrique and Rachael unpack why this film’s legacy still cuts deep over thirty years later.

Inside this episode:

- 🪞 Urban Legends Come Alive — how local myths shape collective fear
- 🍯 The Power of Symbolism — bees, blood, and the mirror
- 💀 The Clive Barker Connection — from page to terrifying screen
- 🎬 Tony Todd & Virginia Madsen — performances that haunt forever
- 🧠 Race, Class & Horror — why Cabrini-Green matters

Candyman turns academic investigation into participation: Helen Lyle approaches Cabrini-Green folklore as research, repeats the mirror ritual, and discovers that a legend survives through belief, repetition, and violence. Tony Todd’s presence and Philip Glass’s score give the figure tragic grandeur, while the bees, hook, murals, and mirrored medicine cabinets connect myth to a real built environment.

Henrique and Rachael discuss Bernard Rose’s adaptation with spoilers, including its changes from Clive Barker’s “The Forbidden.” Their analysis centers the film’s racial and class context, Helen’s shifting identity, the ethics of entering Cabrini-Green as an outsider, and why Candyman remains both monster and cultural memory.

🎧 LISTEN NOW and subscribe for spine-tingling horror stories every week!

🎉 Unlock exclusive bonus episodes and support the show on Patreon!
👉 WeeklySpooky.com/Join

📬 Contact Us / Submit Your Horror Story!


🎵 Music by Ray Mattis 👉 Check out Ray’s incredible work here !
👨‍💼 Executive Producers: Rob Fields, Bobbletopia.com
🎥 Produced by: Daniel Wilder
🌐 Explore more terrifying tales at: WeeklySpooky.com
WEBVTT

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Rachel, Rachel, who is that?

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I'm going to cut you from your croy to your gulet.

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That doesn't that's not that's not nice. Why why would

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you do that?

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Oh no, no, it's it's the motto of my bee far.

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That's a very different motto for a bee farm. Well

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do you have to differentiate? Differentiate yourself? I just learned

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that word.

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So why are you why?

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A bunch of them are.

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No, no, no, they're all over me. Don't get them off.

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It's okay. Just let them into your mouth. That's all

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they want in mouth. You just want into your mouth. No,

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you don't want them to want into anywhere else, trust me.

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Oh god, don't just try to breathe, but don't breathe wrong. Yes,

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that's breathing wrong. Yeah, that's not good.

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This podcast is about why horror scares us, what deep, dark,

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secret scary cinema shines a light on. The discussions are

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frank and involve conversations about abuse, trauma, and mental health.

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There are also spoilers, so keep that in mind too. Now,

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sharpen your machetes and straight raisers, because this is cutting

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deep into horror.

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Hello, my spookies, and welcome back to Cutting Deep into Horror.

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I am, of course, your host Enrique Kuto here with

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my co host on Cutting Deep, Rachel. We'redulphy Rachel. How

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are you?

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I am doing pretty all right?

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Yeah?

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Yeah?

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Are you sure?

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Now I'm questioning everything?

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Very good, very good. Well, no, it's you know, you

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doubt everything. It's important.

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It is especially you know, and especially in this line work.

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Eh, what line is that?

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I don't know. I was just trying to make conversation.

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Oh wow, wow, okay, wow, okay, well that's a little hurtful,

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but okay, okay, Well before we jump in, you know,

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we're knee deep into spooky season now. Yeah, we're over

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halfway through October, and we'll be talking about the nineteen

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ninety two two or three, a nineteen ninety two film,

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candy Man, which is one of my favorite supernatural horror

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movie deals. It's not quite a slash room. It's kind

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of a slasher movie, you know, it's slasher adjacent. Yeah,

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there's a lot of debate. There's a lot of debate

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about candy Man in general. I can see that candy

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Man was kind of of the lower string of horror franchises,

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you know, in the first string you had night ren

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Elm Street Fright of the thirteenth Halloween, and then on

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the second string you had like Child's Play and Gremlin

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not Gremlin's Critters and hell Raiser. Yeah, you know, they

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were kind of and I don't mean to say that

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there's anything wrong with him, it's just that their later

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entries went direct to video, as opposed to Night ren

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Elm Street Fright of the Thirteenth Halloween, where they always

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managed to stay theatrical. Even though there was a lot

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of debate about Halloween going the way of home video

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direct to video, especially in the late nineties, there was

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a lot of money to be made in direct to

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video back then, so I could see why. Yeah, but

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Candy Man is one of those where it has two

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technically three sequels if you count the twenty twenty one.

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I think it was how a Candy Candyman movie, Yeah,

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which was a fine kind of sequel. I like the movie.

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It was not bad, but I don't remember that much

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about it, to be honest. But we're gonna be talking

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about Candyman as we talk about all the films here,

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which is mostly from the standpoint of it being standalone.

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If I throw in some nerdy stuff about the sequels.

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That's just food for thought. It's not really you know,

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exactly Yeah, it's not exactly that. But before we get

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to that, I do want to say we actually have

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a sponsor here, one of our first partnerships that Weekly

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Spooky has had in a while, and I just wanted

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to bring it up. Since this is a more conversational show.

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It is literally a conversational show, it's a little easier

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to bring it up and not just like go into

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commercial mode. But we've partnered with a coffee company called

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savor Resta Coffee, which you can find it resta dot

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com sa v r I s t A. And the

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reason I really dig this place is because, well, number one,

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they're supporting the show. If you go to save Aresta

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dot com and choose some coffee and buy it with

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promo code Spooky at checkout, you get twenty five percent off,

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which is five percent more than their new customers normally get,

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and you can know that that purchase is going towards

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supporting Weekly Spooky. But one of the reasons I thought

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this was a really great partnership was not only do

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they have a bunch of different flavors, but they're caffeine conscious,

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and I am somebody who has to be very caffeine

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conscious because I am super sensitive to caffeine. We talked

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about it last last week when we were talking about

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Nightmarre on Elm Street all the caffeine I was consuming.

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And they specialize in half calf and decalf, gourmet drinks, coffee,

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grounds and beans. So if you guys, get a chance,

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if you're already a coffee lover, and if you love

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coffee at night when you really should be watching your

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caffeine so you can get a full night's sleep, head

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to Savoriesta dot com. Use the promo code Spooky at checkout,

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get twenty five percent off and it helps the show.

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So I really do appreciate it. So I just wanted

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to bring that up. I know, Rachel, you're you're thinking

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about getting some savory stuff I am.

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I was looking at the flavors and they really do

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look good.

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Yeah, Colombian inspiration, barely buzzed, half calf, dark roast, They've

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got a bunch. They've got medium roasts and light roast

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as well. I like when I do drink coffee, I

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like fancy coffee because I drink like two cups a year,

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So why not spend twenty dollars on the bag of

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beans that's barely going to get used anyway. But yeah,

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so it seems pretty cool. So the link will also

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be in the show notes all the information you could need.

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But uh yeah, thank you to Savory Sta for helping

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us bring you the Spooky.

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Yeah.

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So, who knows, maybe we'll be drinking it sometime soon.

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I don't know. I mean, right now, it's been all tea,

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trying to keep my throat alive through thirty one days

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of shows here at Weekly Spooky. We did a novella

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this week, and next week we have two novella length

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shows on Monday and Wednesday.

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But wait, there's more.

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In fact, this will be the first time I mention

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it so that you know, people can know. On Monday,

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I'll be releasing a show I'm very excited about, which

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is a over two hour deep dive into the paranormal

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investigating couple the Warrens, whom the Conjuring movie series is

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based on. I'm going to dive super deep into what

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they claim happened, which is like the first half of

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the show, which is all ghost storytelling, and then how

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there's no evidence for most of what they claim and

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how they might have been at at worst they were

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a little crazy and or at best they were a

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little crazy and at worst they were like legitimately bad people.

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So it's a really interesting show that'll be dropping Monday

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as the final terrifying and true episode for October. And

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I've been looking, I've had I've been sitting on that

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one for almost a month and a half, excitedly wanting

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to release it and then realizing that it is two

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and a half hours almost of talking. So pretty exhausting show.

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But but yeah, otherwise, spooky season's going all right, haven't

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had a chance to go to a haunt yet because

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all my friends are lame and don't want to do anything. Ever,

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that's the going to haunts by yourself is not recommended. No,

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not for safety, it's just bad for the haunt because

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they have trouble dealing with small groups. Yeah, because they

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have to reset everything because the haunts, if you haven't

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been to a haunt in a while, they ain't like

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they used to be. They're they're big and impressive and

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full of props and costumes and sound effects and cue things. Yeah,

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so yeah, ideally groups of four really keep it moving,

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but groups of two are all right, just depends on

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how busy it is. But I'm hoping to get to

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one this weekend and drag you along.

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That's the plan anyway.

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Well it better be or else. But we're going to

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take a quick break and then we'll talk a little

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bit more about Candy Man. We'll get into Candy Man

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maybe or maybe just candy right after this. So I

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feel like candy Man is a pretty solid Halloween choice.

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I think it brings the scary very aggressively. It's a

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haunting movie. I of course, I saw Candy Man probably

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when I was eleven or twelve years old. It was

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on USA and stuff like that. When was the first

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time you saw Candy Man?

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It was, I mean relatively recently. It was probably only

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about like six or seven years ago, right, because you

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and I had gotten through the big tent pole horror

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movies and trying we were trying to figure out like

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what kind of horror movies to watch, and it was

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around Halloween time and had I had mentioned to someone like, oh,

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you know, I'm trying to think of something to watch,

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and he he said, well, what about Candy Man? And

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I'd never even like I somehow had missed it. So

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when I mentioned to you, like I was thinking about

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watching Candy Man, like, you really lit up and I

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really enjoyed the first experience with it.

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What stood out to you the most?

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Well, I think that, like anyone, the first thing, the

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biggest thing that stood out to me was definitely Tony

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Todd himself and his performance and just the gravitas that

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he brings. But the other thing that really stood out

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to me and continued to kind of impress me with

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the second viewing, was how gothic the story feels, and

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the way, like especially the architecture of Chicago and like

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all of the different scenery is portrayed. There's kind of

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like this classic Gothic feel to it. But also just

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the way that the way that they're trying to tell

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the story of folklore and how folklore is made and

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built and maintained, I think is very interesting because it

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is similar in a way to Nightmare on Elm Street,

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where belief is what gives power to you know, either

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Freddy Krueger or Candy Man, depending, but they're both, you know,

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they both are very different on how they go about

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praying on that belief because Candy Man he draws you

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into his reality, whereas Freddy Krueger enters your subconscious. So

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there's kind of that big difference.

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Well, there are some other weird things about candy Man

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as well. One of the big ones. Well, first of all,

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it's worth mentioning a couple of things. This film stars

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Tony Todd, as we mentioned, who has become horror royalty

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from being not only candy Man, but then two years

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prior performing as Ben in The Nightmare or Nightmare the

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Night of the Living Dead nineteen ninety remake directed by

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Tom Savini, which he was also very very good in.

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But Virginia Madsen plays Helen. And this film is very

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loosely based on a Clive Barker short story called The Forbidden,

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which was a part of one of his gosh what

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were they called? They were called the Books of Blood collections,

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and the original story was very different in a lot

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of ways. Because some of the things that I find

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most interesting about Candy Man are the way it digs

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into inner city life, the way it digs into the

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two worlds. The academics, who are generally speaking very well off,

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very affluent, a bit dismissive, but also with a bit

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of a savior complex about the lesser people in Cabrini Green,

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which is a real neighborhood and one of the most

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00:13:44.480 --> 00:13:52.440
legendarily crime ridden and abused communities in America. And those

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00:13:52.440 --> 00:13:54.919
are the things that I think make Candy Man the

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most interesting and the most memorable. Is that whole thing,

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because literally we open with Helen played by Virginia Mads

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and recounting this Candy Man legend and then talking about

224
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the mirror and how Candy Man's legend involves a mirror,

225
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and how Cabrini Green housing was basically built like her

226
00:14:15.919 --> 00:14:21.399
fancy ass rich people apartment is literally the same apartment. Yeah,

227
00:14:21.480 --> 00:14:25.960
it's literally built identical to Cabrini Green, except this one

228
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is full of rich people and it's on the other side.

229
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They use the L train. They reference like using the

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L train and stuff to kind of stop people from

231
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getting out of the projects. Basically, and I grew up.

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I didn't grow up in anything like Cabrini Green, but

233
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I didn't grow up in housing projects. But I did

234
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grow up in basically like a tenement building, which is

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a similar concept. Yeah, it's where you pack people who

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are very poor. And my point is that that's a

237
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wonderful point about mirroring. Basically, like it's at their mirror

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of each other, but they're completely different worlds. You know,

239
00:14:59.480 --> 00:15:02.519
her FA building and Cabrini Green, and you could see

240
00:15:02.559 --> 00:15:06.080
Cabrini Green from her building, yeah, just barely, and vice versa.

241
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I'm sure. So the reason I bring all that up

242
00:15:09.240 --> 00:15:14.279
is that in the story The Forbidden, it takes place

243
00:15:14.279 --> 00:15:18.840
in London, and Candy Man is a white guy. All

244
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of that stuff is because of Bernard Rose, the writer

245
00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:26.879
and director. Bernard Rose brought all of those elements. In fact,

246
00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:31.039
in The Forbidden, Candy Man doesn't have a backstory. Really,

247
00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:35.080
it's not really about that. It's about the concept of

248
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folklore more so. And also Helen in the story is

249
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not investigating urban legends. She's investigating graffiti, which which leads

250
00:15:44.240 --> 00:15:45.960
you to a similar place though, of what do all

251
00:15:45.960 --> 00:15:49.919
these graffiti referencing Candy Man mean? Yeah, so that part

252
00:15:49.919 --> 00:15:53.399
I think is very similar, But none of the racial

253
00:15:53.440 --> 00:15:56.919
stuff is in the original story at all. Candy Man's

254
00:15:56.960 --> 00:16:01.679
described as having thin blue lips, yellowy skin, patchwork coat

255
00:16:01.799 --> 00:16:07.559
matching his patchwork pants. It's very different. Yeah, it's very different,

256
00:16:07.559 --> 00:16:09.240
and I'm not saying that it's not good. I don't

257
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have an opinion about The Forbidden. I've only read rundowns

258
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of the differences between the movie and The Forbidden. I'm

259
00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:19.600
sure it's a perfectly good novella or short story. But

260
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the things that really make Candy Man compelling to me

261
00:16:22.840 --> 00:16:23.519
are not in it.

262
00:16:24.159 --> 00:16:24.840
Huh.

263
00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:28.879
And I find that really bizarre and fascinating. Yeah, and

264
00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:33.200
Candy Man, especially because of all of its references to

265
00:16:34.279 --> 00:16:40.840
racial inequality and the inequality of the legal system in America.

266
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All those things make people have tons of theories and

267
00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:48.679
opinions about what candy Man is about and what happens

268
00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:52.960
in Candy Man. None of that is in the original concept.

269
00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:54.759
It just isn't.

270
00:16:55.919 --> 00:17:01.120
So in a way, it was all Bernard Bernard Rose, right,

271
00:17:01.240 --> 00:17:02.639
it's pronounced Bernard.

272
00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:09.759
Close. You're close. Still offensive and racist. Somehow, I think

273
00:17:09.759 --> 00:17:12.559
he's a whit. I appreciate it, okay, but but no.

274
00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:14.480
So that's a lot of the stuff that I find

275
00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:18.400
most poignant about candy Man. And I'll tell you some more,

276
00:17:18.839 --> 00:17:34.920
but only after this. So, the basic story of Candy Man,

277
00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:38.240
as we mentioned, is a woman named Helen who is

278
00:17:38.319 --> 00:17:41.200
a graduate student at the University of Illinois in Chicago.

279
00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:47.079
Is researching urban legends and becomes aware of Candy Man,

280
00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:50.920
a spirit who kills anyone that speaks his name five

281
00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:54.559
times in front of a mirror, which probably reminds a

282
00:17:54.559 --> 00:17:59.200
lot of people of Bloody Mary, very similar concept. When

283
00:17:59.240 --> 00:18:01.319
I was growing up, I thought Candy Man was an

284
00:18:01.359 --> 00:18:05.160
actual legend because of the movie. I thought that that

285
00:18:05.200 --> 00:18:07.160
was an actual thing. Like my sister and I would

286
00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:09.240
dare each other to say Candy Man five times in

287
00:18:09.240 --> 00:18:11.440
the mirror, and it's not even real. It was made

288
00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:14.519
up by the Forbidden and then used in this in

289
00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:18.680
this film. So she learns that there was a murder

290
00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:23.640
at the Cabrini Green Cabrini Green housing project and that

291
00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:27.519
it was attributed by locals to Candy Man. So she

292
00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:31.160
decides to go down there and investigate. And that's that's

293
00:18:31.279 --> 00:18:33.759
and and she finds it. That's the I mean, that's

294
00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:36.240
like the the long of the short of it is

295
00:18:36.279 --> 00:18:41.559
she she definitely finds him. So uh yeah. And one

296
00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:44.559
thing I want to mention is there's a lot of

297
00:18:44.599 --> 00:18:47.160
like questioning sanity and stuff like that, but I want

298
00:18:47.160 --> 00:18:51.720
to point out that Candy Man himself is never seen

299
00:18:52.680 --> 00:18:56.400
by anyone other than Helen, Yeah, in the entire film,

300
00:18:57.240 --> 00:19:00.759
including and she's the one recounting all of the stories

301
00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:06.440
where we see him as well, which leans into a

302
00:19:06.440 --> 00:19:09.759
lot of people, including to some degree myself, wondering if

303
00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:13.359
there is no candy Man at all, and if it's

304
00:19:13.400 --> 00:19:18.039
the delusions of a woman driven insane or something along

305
00:19:18.079 --> 00:19:21.799
those lines. Oh but we can get into that later.

306
00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:28.000
But yeah, so Candy Man super super fun, scary, creepy

307
00:19:28.039 --> 00:19:31.039
horror movie. A lot more. It does bring the gore

308
00:19:31.160 --> 00:19:34.119
a few times. In fact, when the gore happens, it's

309
00:19:34.279 --> 00:19:41.000
very very shocking. Yeah, but overall, I want to say

310
00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:45.039
it's it's psychological, but those gore scenes are really they're pretty,

311
00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:48.400
they're really startling, and they hit hard when they do.

312
00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:49.279
Yeah.

313
00:19:49.480 --> 00:19:53.440
So, but it is available to watch on Amazon Prime.

314
00:19:53.480 --> 00:19:56.920
You can rent it. It's available on AMC Plus with

315
00:19:56.960 --> 00:20:03.279
a subscription, and maybe on to B I'm checking. Nope,

316
00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:06.200
no longer available on to B thanks Google. So it's

317
00:20:06.200 --> 00:20:09.039
not super available. But if you haven't seen it, that's

318
00:20:09.039 --> 00:20:11.079
your own fault. It's been out for a really long time.

319
00:20:11.599 --> 00:20:16.240
So but with that all being said, you wanna you

320
00:20:16.279 --> 00:20:18.519
wanna get us started on this journey.

321
00:20:18.799 --> 00:20:23.359
Yeah. Well, it's like you said, the introduction is great

322
00:20:24.039 --> 00:20:28.880
because not only does it give us the backstory or

323
00:20:28.960 --> 00:20:32.079
kind of like the mythology of Candy Man, it's also

324
00:20:32.119 --> 00:20:35.640
a really good introduction to Helen. Like you said, she's

325
00:20:35.799 --> 00:20:41.799
a student of mythology. And after she you know, after

326
00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:45.680
she recounts the story of Candy Man, she's kind of there.

327
00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:49.160
When you say story of candy Man, what do you mean?

328
00:20:50.079 --> 00:20:50.240
Uh.

329
00:20:50.839 --> 00:20:58.119
The the opening scene is the is her talking about

330
00:20:58.240 --> 00:21:02.240
if you say the name five times into a mirror,

331
00:21:02.599 --> 00:21:05.319
then can Candy Man will come and like, you know,

332
00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:10.920
he's he's responsible for you know, violence and murdering people.

333
00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:15.839
And then it goes into her interviewing different people who

334
00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:17.519
live at Kabrini Green.

335
00:21:17.720 --> 00:21:20.079
Which are the cleaning staff at her college.

336
00:21:20.319 --> 00:21:24.799
That's oh, that's right, yeah, and they're you know, they're

337
00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:30.960
kind of expounding upon the effect that Candy Man has

338
00:21:31.119 --> 00:21:34.279
actually had on their community. Like he's not just a

339
00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:40.480
story to them, he's a reality. And this really picks

340
00:21:40.519 --> 00:21:48.880
Helen's interest, and so she and her friend is it Bernadette,

341
00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:51.720
you know, that's when they hatch their plan to go

342
00:21:51.759 --> 00:21:56.720
to Kabrini Green. And investigate. But first Helen wants to

343
00:21:57.519 --> 00:22:02.759
talk to her husband, Lyle, who is a professor or

344
00:22:02.799 --> 00:22:09.319
a lecturer at the professor and we what's interesting about

345
00:22:09.319 --> 00:22:09.920
thee His.

346
00:22:09.960 --> 00:22:13.039
Name is Trevor, Trevor, his last name is Lyle. Both

347
00:22:13.079 --> 00:22:14.240
of their last names are Lyle.

348
00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:19.400
That's where I got Lyle. So their their relationship was

349
00:22:19.480 --> 00:22:22.039
interesting because as you and I were watching this again

350
00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:25.519
the other night, we both commented how even though they're married,

351
00:22:26.039 --> 00:22:29.680
they don't interact like they're married. They don't like really

352
00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:31.319
feel like they're married.

353
00:22:31.960 --> 00:22:33.720
Yeah, he seems to just kind of come and go.

354
00:22:33.799 --> 00:22:35.440
It made me think they were more like kind of

355
00:22:35.480 --> 00:22:36.400
casually dating.

356
00:22:36.839 --> 00:22:40.880
Yeah, and I have to agree. And this this first

357
00:22:40.920 --> 00:22:46.400
introduction with him, we get the sense that not everything

358
00:22:46.480 --> 00:22:51.720
maybe right, because first off, he's giving this lecture about

359
00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:55.599
you know, urban legends, and she's a roll upset at

360
00:22:55.640 --> 00:22:57.720
the end of the lecture because he had promised that

361
00:22:57.759 --> 00:23:00.240
he was going to wait until she was there, like

362
00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:03.759
fully there to give the lecture and he had just

363
00:23:04.240 --> 00:23:06.720
you know, kind of gone ahead without her. And then

364
00:23:06.759 --> 00:23:08.920
she was also noticing that he's getting a lot of

365
00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:12.920
attention from one of its students and he's just you know,

366
00:23:13.039 --> 00:23:15.279
kind of writing it off as like, Oh, she's just

367
00:23:15.319 --> 00:23:19.279
a kid, you know, she's just infatuated with me. But Helen,

368
00:23:20.359 --> 00:23:22.880
she already seems kind of suspicious of that.

369
00:23:23.400 --> 00:23:26.319
Well, and it's worth mentioning, I don't. I think the

370
00:23:26.359 --> 00:23:29.240
reason she was mad that he was diving into urban

371
00:23:29.319 --> 00:23:32.920
legends from an academic standpoint is she was worried about

372
00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:38.880
him priming the students against her presentation. Mm hmm, because

373
00:23:39.240 --> 00:23:41.400
that's kind of a I mean, that's a thing. You know,

374
00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:44.799
if you follow somebody respect saying this is all kind

375
00:23:44.839 --> 00:23:48.519
of bull crap, then it kind of destroys the ability

376
00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:50.880
to get people to care about what you're writing about.

377
00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:54.960
And her interest in the Candyman legend is a little

378
00:23:55.119 --> 00:23:59.640
deeper in that her and Bernadette believe that their thesis

379
00:23:59.880 --> 00:24:04.119
is is Cabrini Green residents are using the Candyman legend

380
00:24:04.359 --> 00:24:08.039
to cope with racial inequality. Basically, yeah, that they're using

381
00:24:08.039 --> 00:24:12.319
it to cope with the fact that they live in hell.

382
00:24:13.160 --> 00:24:16.839
By many people's standards, they live in an awful place

383
00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:19.680
full of scary people, and people get killed all the time,

384
00:24:20.599 --> 00:24:25.759
which is very like the is very perfectly academic lensed

385
00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:29.759
that it's like we're gonna look at this urban legend

386
00:24:29.799 --> 00:24:34.440
through the veil of racial inequality. In fact, when they

387
00:24:34.559 --> 00:24:38.839
tell the candy Man legend, the legend itself, there's a

388
00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:41.200
really odd detail I don't know if you picked up

389
00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:44.680
on when they describe the jock guy and the girl

390
00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:46.720
like kind of making out on the bed, you know,

391
00:24:46.720 --> 00:24:50.200
when the whole thing happens. And I'll explain that right

392
00:24:50.240 --> 00:25:05.319
after this. So when she is telling a version of

393
00:25:05.319 --> 00:25:10.359
the Candyman myth, not his real quote unquote backstory, which

394
00:25:10.400 --> 00:25:13.480
we get to in a little bit, it doesn't even

395
00:25:13.519 --> 00:25:17.880
take place in Chicago. It's in a small suburban house

396
00:25:17.920 --> 00:25:18.640
in Indiana.

397
00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:21.319
Oh, you're right. I didn't notice that.

398
00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:23.880
I mean, do you remember that, though. I mean they're

399
00:25:23.880 --> 00:25:27.359
they're they're nowhere near Cabrini Green. Yeah, I think they're

400
00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:30.200
outside of Gary or something. They're in Indiana. Yeah, and

401
00:25:30.200 --> 00:25:34.319
they're and they're literally it's like a like a stereotypical

402
00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:37.359
urban legend. The guy is wearing a letterman jacket and

403
00:25:37.400 --> 00:25:40.440
the girl has a ponytail, and maybe tonight's the night

404
00:25:40.519 --> 00:25:42.880
she's gonna give it up. You know, It's it's so

405
00:25:43.279 --> 00:25:48.480
urban legend. Codd, It's just completely urban legendy that has

406
00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:51.039
nothing to do with Cabrini Green, that has nothing to

407
00:25:51.119 --> 00:25:55.720
do with any of the elements of candy Man that

408
00:25:55.759 --> 00:25:59.000
we come to know later on. Yeah, which I find

409
00:25:59.079 --> 00:26:04.240
really really interesting and kind of strange. Yeah, I just

410
00:26:04.279 --> 00:26:08.200
thought that was kind of worth mentioning that it doesn't

411
00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:11.759
really Yeah, it doesn't really seem like he like it's

412
00:26:12.200 --> 00:26:14.640
to me, it's much more generic than what we find

413
00:26:14.680 --> 00:26:18.799
out later, much more generic. So, and it's it's the

414
00:26:18.839 --> 00:26:21.440
classic you know, they're hanging out together and then as

415
00:26:21.480 --> 00:26:24.000
a goof they say candy Man in the mirror five

416
00:26:24.079 --> 00:26:27.160
times and they get slaughtered. Basically, well, she gets slaughtered,

417
00:26:27.400 --> 00:26:29.960
and that he discovers her dead body after blood is

418
00:26:30.039 --> 00:26:34.279
dripping through the ceiling. Yeah, which is really shoddy workmanship.

419
00:26:35.319 --> 00:26:37.519
But maybe that's the real horror of the story.

420
00:26:38.759 --> 00:26:39.519
I would say so.

421
00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:42.039
But I just wanted to mention that too. I mean,

422
00:26:42.039 --> 00:26:46.240
that's a very interesting side note that makes me wonder

423
00:26:47.160 --> 00:26:50.440
about candy Man in the context of the first film,

424
00:26:51.079 --> 00:26:54.720
because when we start, I mean, in the movie does

425
00:26:54.799 --> 00:26:57.160
open with a few elements of candy Man that aren't

426
00:26:57.160 --> 00:27:01.119
necessarily directly related to Hell And I mean, we get

427
00:27:01.160 --> 00:27:05.200
a little opening monologue thing from Tony Todd and the

428
00:27:05.240 --> 00:27:09.039
Bees flying kind of over Chicago. But after that, like,

429
00:27:09.079 --> 00:27:11.200
she's talking about candy Man, and at first he's just

430
00:27:11.240 --> 00:27:14.599
a hook, and as time goes on he keeps kind

431
00:27:14.599 --> 00:27:19.079
of morphing mm hm. We see more and more and more. Now,

432
00:27:19.119 --> 00:27:21.839
of course that's a normal trope that you don't see

433
00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:23.759
all of the killer right away. You get more and

434
00:27:23.799 --> 00:27:26.640
more of him as you go. But it does seem

435
00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:30.279
strange to me that Helen knows so little about him,

436
00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:32.839
so we see so little, and then as she learns more,

437
00:27:32.880 --> 00:27:33.559
we see more.

438
00:27:34.279 --> 00:27:36.000
That is a very interesting point.

439
00:27:36.119 --> 00:27:40.480
It makes me wonder if candy Man is in her head. Yeah,

440
00:27:40.519 --> 00:27:45.160
and maybe that's it or something. I don't know, because

441
00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:48.039
obviously if you follow the sequels, candy Man is definitely

442
00:27:48.039 --> 00:27:50.160
a real thing because he lives beyond Helen.

443
00:27:50.680 --> 00:27:52.839
Yeah, but in.

444
00:27:52.759 --> 00:27:54.839
The context of only the film, it really does make

445
00:27:54.880 --> 00:27:59.599
me wonder, So, yeah, I think that's worth mentioning. So

446
00:28:00.279 --> 00:28:02.880
they truck on down to Cabrini Green to figure out

447
00:28:02.920 --> 00:28:06.039
what's going on. And this is another thing I mentioned

448
00:28:06.039 --> 00:28:07.880
when we were watching it that I think is worth

449
00:28:08.440 --> 00:28:12.200
pointing out too. While they don't Heman hall like crazy

450
00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:15.720
about going to Cabrini Green. There is trepidation about going,

451
00:28:15.799 --> 00:28:20.200
especially because they're two women, two tiny women. I mean

452
00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:24.440
they're like, you know, very petite women, Helen and Bernadette.

453
00:28:24.559 --> 00:28:29.240
Bernadette is a black woman, but obviously it's very clear

454
00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:33.079
she's from a very different socioeconomic background than the residents

455
00:28:33.079 --> 00:28:36.039
of Cabrini Green. If anyone in her family came from

456
00:28:36.079 --> 00:28:38.839
that background, it was a very long time ago. Yes,

457
00:28:38.920 --> 00:28:44.359
she has no sense of awareness of those spaces. So

458
00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:47.680
they go there, and they're in the bill. They well,

459
00:28:47.680 --> 00:28:49.160
first of all, the moment they get out of the car,

460
00:28:49.160 --> 00:28:54.480
they're accosted by gang bangers, guys wearing gang clothes, asking

461
00:28:54.559 --> 00:28:56.039
what you do and what you hear for? What you

462
00:28:56.119 --> 00:28:58.480
do and what you hear for, over and over to them,

463
00:28:58.519 --> 00:29:02.240
clearly trying to intimidate them. They look like cops.

464
00:29:02.519 --> 00:29:06.039
Yeah, And Bernadette even says like, oh, I told you

465
00:29:06.039 --> 00:29:09.000
we shouldn't have dressed like this, And Helen's like, I

466
00:29:09.079 --> 00:29:10.799
just told you to dress professional.

467
00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:14.200
Yeah, I know, she said, casual, Oh, casual, because they're

468
00:29:14.200 --> 00:29:16.640
where I mean they are. They're like corporate casual. They're

469
00:29:16.640 --> 00:29:18.880
not like well it's also not it's like.

470
00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:21.400
Cold out, Yeah, so they wear their jackets.

471
00:29:21.440 --> 00:29:25.720
So they're wearing like jackets and a nice blouse and pants,

472
00:29:25.880 --> 00:29:27.720
you know, like a pants suit kind of thing. They

473
00:29:27.759 --> 00:29:29.759
do they look like I mean, they don't. I mean,

474
00:29:29.799 --> 00:29:31.559
they look like cops that are not in any way

475
00:29:31.599 --> 00:29:33.759
even vaguely undercovered. They don't look like they're trying to

476
00:29:33.759 --> 00:29:38.440
fool anybody. Yeah, but of course that's gonna make people nervous, Yeah,

477
00:29:38.799 --> 00:29:41.240
that they're walking around because as it becomes very clear

478
00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:44.920
the further we get into Cabrini Green, the police don't

479
00:29:44.920 --> 00:29:47.799
help them. White people don't help them, you know whatever.

480
00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:49.759
They even say a few times, like whenever white people

481
00:29:49.839 --> 00:29:52.559
start stomping around here, whenever police are stomping around here,

482
00:29:52.599 --> 00:29:56.480
it never helps. It always makes things worse. And when

483
00:29:56.519 --> 00:30:01.079
you consider that, depending on your worldview, Cabrini Green in

484
00:30:01.160 --> 00:30:04.200
all housing projects again depending on your worldview, were built

485
00:30:04.240 --> 00:30:08.519
to help people m M. But very few people feel

486
00:30:08.519 --> 00:30:11.680
that way about housing projects now that they help anybody. Yeah,

487
00:30:11.720 --> 00:30:13.079
you know, and there are some people who believe they

488
00:30:13.079 --> 00:30:16.359
were built from the beginning to harm, and then there's

489
00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:18.920
some people who believe that they were good intended they

490
00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:22.720
just didn't turn out. So if you take housing projects

491
00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:26.559
at face value, then yeah, this was yet another thing

492
00:30:26.680 --> 00:30:30.480
done thinking it would help and it did not. Yeah. Yes,

493
00:30:30.680 --> 00:30:33.720
But as they're walking through the hallway taking pictures of

494
00:30:34.160 --> 00:30:38.519
very creepy graffiti that's refreferencing the candy man saying things

495
00:30:38.519 --> 00:30:43.000
like sweets to the sweet all of that, they encounter

496
00:30:43.160 --> 00:30:47.680
a young woman who lives in the housing project, and

497
00:30:48.759 --> 00:30:53.160
I find her really fascinating. Her name's Anne Marie, and

498
00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:55.160
she is very clearly a waitress, I believe.

499
00:30:55.519 --> 00:30:59.359
Yeah, it's pretty clear because she's got the small yeah,

500
00:30:59.400 --> 00:31:00.200
the smock.

501
00:31:00.119 --> 00:31:03.039
Yeah, and the name tag that says Anne Marie. And

502
00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:06.519
she's a single mother raising an infant son named Anthony

503
00:31:07.559 --> 00:31:10.839
or Anthony. I'm not trying to be funny. I don't

504
00:31:10.839 --> 00:31:13.240
know if she was supposed to be in the script,

505
00:31:13.440 --> 00:31:16.720
if she was supposed to just like have that affectation,

506
00:31:16.920 --> 00:31:19.240
or if she literally because some people do name their

507
00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:24.039
kids literally. Yeah, the sound like Anthony instead of Anthony

508
00:31:24.039 --> 00:31:26.200
and stuff. So I don't know if that was intentional

509
00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:30.119
or not, or how that was planned. But one thing,

510
00:31:30.440 --> 00:31:33.759
what did you notice when she she eventually reluctantly invites

511
00:31:33.799 --> 00:31:34.720
them into her apartment.

512
00:31:36.039 --> 00:31:40.400
The thing that I noticed is the juxta position of

513
00:31:41.880 --> 00:31:45.880
the outside, like the hallways and you know, stairwells and

514
00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:49.200
everything of Cabrini Green and how they're you know, the

515
00:31:49.279 --> 00:31:54.319
walls are covered in graffiti and there's trash everywhere, and

516
00:31:54.400 --> 00:31:57.480
you know, it's broken down and run down. And then

517
00:31:57.519 --> 00:32:02.200
the inside of Anne Marie's apartment is like Homie's nice,

518
00:32:02.319 --> 00:32:07.640
beautiful and like well kept and it's very obviously like

519
00:32:07.799 --> 00:32:13.519
a little safe haven inside the mess of the you know,

520
00:32:13.559 --> 00:32:18.160
the projects, which I thought was you know, it's it's

521
00:32:18.240 --> 00:32:22.039
great storytelling, and it's also just great character development for

522
00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:24.799
Annerie because you learn so much about who she is

523
00:32:25.480 --> 00:32:28.720
and what she values as a person just from that

524
00:32:28.839 --> 00:32:31.559
introduction of going into her apartment and her you know,

525
00:32:31.599 --> 00:32:34.559
holding her baby and talking about life well.

526
00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:36.240
And she makes it very clear that her whole world

527
00:32:36.279 --> 00:32:36.799
is Anthony.

528
00:32:36.920 --> 00:32:39.039
Oh yeah. I mean she literally says it that he's

529
00:32:39.079 --> 00:32:42.279
everything to her. And that's I mean, when we lived

530
00:32:42.319 --> 00:32:46.000
in a tenement building, our house was nice, or our

531
00:32:46.039 --> 00:32:48.640
space was nice, mm hmm, it was everywhere else that

532
00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:51.559
wasn't so nice, you know, And that's the way it works.

533
00:32:51.599 --> 00:32:53.480
I Mean, you kind of have to take some pride

534
00:32:53.480 --> 00:32:55.720
in your home and make it nice, and she's very

535
00:32:55.799 --> 00:32:58.960
clearly one of those people who's trying to live her

536
00:32:59.000 --> 00:33:04.079
life in the circumstances that she's in. And we find

537
00:33:04.119 --> 00:33:09.000
out that she is literally the next door neighbor of

538
00:33:09.039 --> 00:33:14.599
the supposed candy man's most recent victim. And we'll talk

539
00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:29.160
about that more right after this. So Anne Marie is

540
00:33:29.200 --> 00:33:33.079
talking about what she heard, things like that, and she

541
00:33:33.119 --> 00:33:36.960
doesn't really have much. She's also been reassured over and

542
00:33:36.960 --> 00:33:40.839
over that Helen and Bernadette are not police and that

543
00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:42.640
no one's going to get in trouble, that they're from

544
00:33:42.799 --> 00:33:48.440
the university. Yeah, So they're trying to figure out what's

545
00:33:48.519 --> 00:33:52.960
going on, and they end up going into that apartment

546
00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:54.960
which is just kind of sitting there and taking pictures.

547
00:33:55.400 --> 00:33:57.960
And this is where you get some of the wildest

548
00:33:58.720 --> 00:34:02.240
stuff because they go into the apartment where the murder

549
00:34:02.279 --> 00:34:06.200
happened and they pull the mirror off the wall. Yeah,

550
00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:11.239
and it reveals like a Narnia of Hell just on

551
00:34:11.280 --> 00:34:11.920
the other side.

552
00:34:12.639 --> 00:34:12.760
Uh.

553
00:34:12.920 --> 00:34:16.599
Because when they when they reveal the big you know,

554
00:34:16.679 --> 00:34:22.239
the big hole in the wall, it they they they

555
00:34:22.280 --> 00:34:28.679
already have an idea of the layout because again Helen's apartment,

556
00:34:29.800 --> 00:34:32.960
the layout of her apartment complex is exactly the same

557
00:34:33.000 --> 00:34:35.960
as this one here is Cabrini Green. So she's even like,

558
00:34:36.039 --> 00:34:39.440
as they're walking through this rundown apartment, she's like, I know,

559
00:34:39.639 --> 00:34:42.840
like if we go here and we remove this, then

560
00:34:42.880 --> 00:34:46.199
we'll just be on the mirror side of the other apartment.

561
00:34:47.239 --> 00:34:53.519
And she she crawls through, and the camera like zooms

562
00:34:53.559 --> 00:34:57.159
out and we realize she she's crawling out of a wall,

563
00:34:57.840 --> 00:35:03.960
and the wall behind her is a graffiti mural of

564
00:35:04.480 --> 00:35:07.920
Candy Man's face with his mouth open, and she's crawling

565
00:35:07.960 --> 00:35:11.000
out of his mouth, which is creepy enough as it is.

566
00:35:11.960 --> 00:35:15.280
But then as she's walking around in this darylic space,

567
00:35:15.800 --> 00:35:18.079
she looks and she sees a bunch of candy and

568
00:35:18.119 --> 00:35:21.880
she realizes that the residents have like basically left an

569
00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:26.119
offering for Candy Man there. So she's you know, like

570
00:35:26.199 --> 00:35:30.840
taking pictures, and Bernadette's kind of panicking.

571
00:35:32.320 --> 00:35:34.519
Well, and I want to mention, by the way, that

572
00:35:34.519 --> 00:35:37.719
that's the first time that she I mean, like we

573
00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:40.199
see her see that Candy Man portrait or what we

574
00:35:40.280 --> 00:35:43.239
believe is a Candyman portrait, and then Candy Man looks

575
00:35:43.280 --> 00:35:45.119
like that portrait. Yeah, I just want to put that

576
00:35:45.159 --> 00:35:47.800
out there because I've been thinking a lot about the

577
00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:52.000
idea that maybe this is her perception and we like

578
00:35:52.119 --> 00:35:54.559
she did not see Tony Todd as Candy Man before

579
00:35:54.599 --> 00:35:57.480
she saw that. I'm almost certain of it. So I

580
00:35:57.559 --> 00:35:59.840
just wanted to throw that out there. That's very, very

581
00:36:00.079 --> 00:36:02.840
But yeah, they're getting freaked out because like she's literally

582
00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:06.719
walking through this like haunted house basically yeah and yeah please.

583
00:36:07.760 --> 00:36:11.840
So that's that's when Anne Marie like stops them. She

584
00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:14.519
because she comes with her dogs and she's like, basically

585
00:36:14.559 --> 00:36:18.239
like what are you guys doing here? Like why no

586
00:36:18.239 --> 00:36:20.400
one wants to come here? Like why are you here,

587
00:36:20.519 --> 00:36:23.519
especially you know, a white lady, And she invites them

588
00:36:23.519 --> 00:36:27.000
into their apartment, and that's, you know, when she starts

589
00:36:27.079 --> 00:36:34.719
talking about the murder. She really explains how helpless she

590
00:36:34.880 --> 00:36:38.719
felt as the neighbor because she had called nine one

591
00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:42.199
one and tried to get the police out there and

592
00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:48.119
they just basically ignored her. And what's really interesting is

593
00:36:48.280 --> 00:36:50.960
as I was as I was looking it up, uh,

594
00:36:52.519 --> 00:36:56.199
that's that's all actually inspired by a real murder.

595
00:36:56.519 --> 00:36:59.280
Oh yeah, I've heard that before the details though.

596
00:36:59.480 --> 00:37:06.039
So her name was Ruth May McCoy and she lived

597
00:37:06.199 --> 00:37:11.719
in in Chicago in the ABLA Homes, which stood for

598
00:37:12.880 --> 00:37:17.280
it was a housing project that was basically like four

599
00:37:17.400 --> 00:37:24.639
different housing projects all mushed together, and very similarly, the

600
00:37:24.679 --> 00:37:27.920
mirrors of the bathrooms on like the far ends of

601
00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:32.360
the buildings had like two feet of space between them,

602
00:37:33.000 --> 00:37:36.400
and so in eighty seven, there was a lot of

603
00:37:36.440 --> 00:37:39.599
gang violence that was going on, and gangs were using

604
00:37:39.639 --> 00:37:44.840
that space to like break into people's homes. So one night,

605
00:37:45.639 --> 00:37:50.000
some people broke into Ruth's home and she called the

606
00:37:50.039 --> 00:37:53.760
police as it was happening, as they were like breaking

607
00:37:53.840 --> 00:37:58.119
down the mirror, and she told them that people were

608
00:37:58.159 --> 00:38:02.639
coming through her bathroom and she was in danger, and

609
00:38:02.679 --> 00:38:07.719
they never responded. And her neighbors actually called later that

610
00:38:07.840 --> 00:38:11.199
night because they heard all the commotion and they heard

611
00:38:11.199 --> 00:38:15.000
her being murdered, and they all reported it and the

612
00:38:15.039 --> 00:38:18.280
police still don't didn't come out, and it wasn't until

613
00:38:19.119 --> 00:38:22.360
the next day a neighbor called again and said, I

614
00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:24.599
still I haven't seen her in twenty four hours, like

615
00:38:24.679 --> 00:38:27.280
you need to get out here, and then the police

616
00:38:27.320 --> 00:38:32.480
finally came out. So it was very similar circumstances that

617
00:38:34.079 --> 00:38:37.960
a lot of people think had inspired Bernard Rose for

618
00:38:38.119 --> 00:38:40.800
some of the details of this part of the movie.

619
00:38:40.960 --> 00:38:44.320
Sure, well, And it's important to keep in mind bathrooms

620
00:38:44.360 --> 00:38:47.039
are i mean apartments, They do do that. Bathrooms are

621
00:38:47.079 --> 00:38:49.679
built next to each other in order to save money

622
00:38:49.719 --> 00:38:54.480
and complication on running pipes, because the further you run

623
00:38:54.519 --> 00:38:56.960
pipes from a central place, the more risk of freezing

624
00:38:57.000 --> 00:39:00.480
there is and and other things. But also it's more complicated,

625
00:39:00.559 --> 00:39:03.039
more risk of leaks and things like that. So bathrooms

626
00:39:03.039 --> 00:39:06.760
are almost always put back to back. Apartments are usually

627
00:39:06.800 --> 00:39:09.960
done that way. And I've seen video of people who

628
00:39:09.960 --> 00:39:13.880
have revealed that their medicine cabinets do connect to the

629
00:39:14.159 --> 00:39:17.519
neighboring apartment. Yeah, if you remove the medicine cabinet, which.

630
00:39:17.360 --> 00:39:19.840
You're not supposed to do, but it's still there.

631
00:39:20.079 --> 00:39:25.079
Well sure, sure, it's very creepy though the idea. So yeah, no,

632
00:39:25.199 --> 00:39:27.800
that's really interesting. I had heard a little bit about

633
00:39:27.800 --> 00:39:30.440
that years ago, but I had not followed up on it. Yeah.

634
00:39:31.320 --> 00:39:34.679
Well, and this all, you know, this all reminds me.

635
00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:38.679
You'll remember the incident that happened, like, you know, five

636
00:39:38.760 --> 00:39:40.840
years ago, when I was living in that apartment and

637
00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:43.880
the guy and the apartment next to me was like

638
00:39:44.440 --> 00:39:52.239
insane and was like tearing down the walls, and I

639
00:39:52.679 --> 00:39:54.679
had even told you. One night, I was like, man,

640
00:39:54.719 --> 00:39:57.480
he's like really going at it, like he's banging really loud,

641
00:39:57.559 --> 00:40:00.480
and it was the wall right like in my bed bedroom.

642
00:40:01.039 --> 00:40:03.280
And the next day the guy got arrested and I

643
00:40:03.320 --> 00:40:07.000
was looking like he'd torn the whole front wall of

644
00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:11.400
his apartment down at the at like the ac unit,

645
00:40:11.840 --> 00:40:13.320
and I was looking and it was like, yeah, he

646
00:40:13.480 --> 00:40:17.559
was literally like taking a hammer and breaking down the

647
00:40:17.639 --> 00:40:19.719
adjoining wall. To me, he was like there was just

648
00:40:19.800 --> 00:40:23.679
a little bit of plywood there. Yeah, so uh, yeah,

649
00:40:23.880 --> 00:40:24.599
shit happens.

650
00:40:25.320 --> 00:40:28.679
Yeah. I do not miss apartment living in the least

651
00:40:29.360 --> 00:40:32.039
in the least, and as an adult, I only lived

652
00:40:32.079 --> 00:40:36.000
in one apartment and my neighbors were like shitty, but

653
00:40:36.039 --> 00:40:37.400
they weren't like scary.

654
00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:40.760
Yeah yeah, they weren't breaking down the walls.

655
00:40:41.039 --> 00:40:43.679
Yeah. Well, actually it's funny because my next door neighbor

656
00:40:43.880 --> 00:40:46.679
was everybody was afraid of him, but me, I don't.

657
00:40:46.679 --> 00:40:48.960
I've ever told you that story. Like he was a

658
00:40:49.239 --> 00:40:54.599
hard as nails black man, and he wore all leather,

659
00:40:55.159 --> 00:40:56.440
like I mean you wore I mean you wear like

660
00:40:56.480 --> 00:41:00.519
a leather jacket, leather hat. I was just like, hey, man,

661
00:41:01.079 --> 00:41:04.199
I I grew up around people like that. I did.

662
00:41:04.360 --> 00:41:06.960
I just did. I never find them intimidating. I mean,

663
00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:10.079
I mean unless they're really intimidating. And we ended up

664
00:41:10.119 --> 00:41:13.920
becoming really good friends. He was from Cleveland. Of all,

665
00:41:14.519 --> 00:41:16.880
this was in Jersey because he noticed my Ohio plate

666
00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:19.639
and that was one of our icebreakers because then I said, oh,

667
00:41:19.639 --> 00:41:21.840
I'm from Dayton and he was like, my brother worked

668
00:41:21.840 --> 00:41:23.920
at the right pat Air Force Base. And I was

669
00:41:23.960 --> 00:41:27.320
like really, no way. Yeah, So it was like very yeah.

670
00:41:27.320 --> 00:41:29.440
We got along great. His family would come and visit

671
00:41:29.480 --> 00:41:31.199
and I would like play with his nieces and nephews

672
00:41:31.199 --> 00:41:34.360
and stuff. It was but he you know, but like

673
00:41:34.480 --> 00:41:36.159
he got mad at one of our neighbors for like

674
00:41:36.679 --> 00:41:38.679
making noise and he would like yell through the walls

675
00:41:38.679 --> 00:41:40.360
he was going to kill them and stuff. I mean

676
00:41:40.719 --> 00:41:44.199
when he was mad, he was mad, but I never heard,

677
00:41:44.320 --> 00:41:46.840
you know, he was always nice to me. So the

678
00:41:46.920 --> 00:41:51.000
end on that. But now, after this experience where they're

679
00:41:51.039 --> 00:41:54.840
at Cabrini Green and they get out of there mostly unscathed,

680
00:41:55.480 --> 00:41:58.320
they end up going well, no, they all do. Helen

681
00:41:58.360 --> 00:42:04.440
and Bernadette go to dinner with Helen's husband and Bernadette's

682
00:42:04.440 --> 00:42:07.960
boyfriend or some guy. It seemed like it was her boyfriend. Yeah.

683
00:42:08.039 --> 00:42:13.159
But they go to dinner with Professor Philip Percell, a

684
00:42:13.360 --> 00:42:17.960
Englishman who happens to be an expert on the Candyman

685
00:42:18.039 --> 00:42:23.400
myth because he wrote a dissertation on candy Man and

686
00:42:23.440 --> 00:42:28.119
this is where we find out the story behind candy

687
00:42:28.239 --> 00:42:43.719
Man right after this. So as they're having dinner with

688
00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:49.840
Professor Philip Purcell, it's a really interesting exchange because Helen

689
00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:55.039
is a little bit moderately like combative with him, because

690
00:42:55.119 --> 00:42:56.559
he's like, I want to know what you're you know,

691
00:42:56.599 --> 00:42:58.199
what you're working on, and she's like, it's not ready.

692
00:42:58.239 --> 00:43:01.000
He's like, that's precisely when you should tell me about it,

693
00:43:01.119 --> 00:43:02.800
because that's when I could be of the most help,

694
00:43:02.840 --> 00:43:06.199
when it's not done. And he's very amused when he

695
00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:09.320
finds out that they're talking about candy Man at Cabrini

696
00:43:09.360 --> 00:43:13.400
Green and he asks her if she read his paper

697
00:43:13.480 --> 00:43:16.519
on him, which she hasn't, which is also kind of

698
00:43:16.559 --> 00:43:18.679
interesting because it sounds like the way he was talking

699
00:43:18.679 --> 00:43:23.159
that it's like the only record, you know, like academic

700
00:43:23.239 --> 00:43:28.039
record of the Candyman myth. But he goes into this

701
00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:31.440
whole myth that candy Man was the son of a

702
00:43:31.519 --> 00:43:37.440
slave in the eighteen hundreds who ended up being wealthy

703
00:43:37.880 --> 00:43:42.639
because his father had made a fortune on patents for shoes.

704
00:43:43.800 --> 00:43:47.440
And then I'm sorry, do you want to take over?

705
00:43:49.119 --> 00:43:51.679
You're looking at me like, oh, you were looking at

706
00:43:51.679 --> 00:43:53.239
me just totally blank. I was like, am I making

707
00:43:53.239 --> 00:43:53.519
this up?

708
00:43:53.679 --> 00:43:53.960
No?

709
00:43:53.960 --> 00:43:55.519
No, no, you're doing good.

710
00:43:55.679 --> 00:44:00.239
Oh. So he then he became a painter, and he

711
00:44:00.280 --> 00:44:03.119
fell in love with a woman he was painting, who

712
00:44:03.199 --> 00:44:06.079
was a white woman. Yeah, impregnated her, and then her

713
00:44:06.119 --> 00:44:09.079
father basically sent a lynch mob after him, who sawed

714
00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:12.519
off his right hand in order to make him, you know,

715
00:44:12.639 --> 00:44:14.840
unable to be an artist anymore, and then smeared him

716
00:44:14.840 --> 00:44:20.920
with honeycomb stolen from a nearby apiary, which attracted bees,

717
00:44:21.280 --> 00:44:24.760
which then stung him to death. His corpse was then

718
00:44:24.800 --> 00:44:27.920
burned in a pyre, which was on the site of

719
00:44:27.920 --> 00:44:33.480
what inevitably became the Cabrini Green Homes. So that's the story.

720
00:44:33.840 --> 00:44:40.000
Yeah, and it's a it's a very powerful story just

721
00:44:41.159 --> 00:44:45.760
from from a narrative standpoint, because of because of the

722
00:44:45.880 --> 00:44:53.719
racial tension, just because of the way that the way

723
00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:58.440
that Chicago is in the real world and because of

724
00:44:58.519 --> 00:45:02.079
the way that they're setting up the story of the

725
00:45:02.119 --> 00:45:06.960
residents of Cabrini Green and how they've all been kind

726
00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:11.679
of relegated to living in this hell hole because of

727
00:45:12.119 --> 00:45:16.639
their racial history. And then he talks about you know

728
00:45:16.760 --> 00:45:22.559
him talking about Candy Man's origins as someone who could

729
00:45:22.599 --> 00:45:25.679
have you know, he he if he would have fallen

730
00:45:25.719 --> 00:45:29.400
in love with this woman and gotten her pregnant, pregnant,

731
00:45:29.400 --> 00:45:31.320
but he was a white guy, Like it really wouldn't

732
00:45:31.360 --> 00:45:34.760
have mattered as much a little bit, Yeah, but I

733
00:45:34.760 --> 00:45:37.199
don't think it would have been like Lynch Mob mattered.

734
00:45:37.280 --> 00:45:39.159
Yeah, probably not. I mean I think it was supposed

735
00:45:39.159 --> 00:45:44.039
to be eighteen seventy Yeah, yeah, I mean, getting any

736
00:45:44.239 --> 00:45:47.760
wealthy person's daughter pregnant unexpectedly would probably be.

737
00:45:48.119 --> 00:45:51.119
A bad move, Yeah, but not recommended.

738
00:45:51.320 --> 00:45:56.920
And this begins this odd connection between Helen and Candy

739
00:45:57.039 --> 00:46:00.800
Man where it seems like he's seducing her. And again

740
00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:04.639
that doesn't start until after she hears the story. That's

741
00:46:04.679 --> 00:46:08.559
also when she starts to see him with bees. This

742
00:46:08.599 --> 00:46:12.320
is all after this guy had told her. And I've

743
00:46:12.320 --> 00:46:14.920
heard people theories. Some people have said that they think

744
00:46:14.960 --> 00:46:18.599
Philip Purcell, the Professor's character made all that up like

745
00:46:18.679 --> 00:46:22.400
for his article, because that does happen to some extent

746
00:46:22.559 --> 00:46:26.440
that Yeah, fill in blanks. Who knows because he's the

747
00:46:26.480 --> 00:46:30.039
only source. Yeah, he's the only source for the backstory,

748
00:46:31.000 --> 00:46:34.719
but to a myth that's clearly spread further than Cabrini

749
00:46:34.800 --> 00:46:37.239
Green by the fact that one of the first tellings

750
00:46:37.280 --> 00:46:40.119
of it is not anywhere near Cabrini Green. Yeah, I

751
00:46:40.159 --> 00:46:42.840
mean it's a state over so I guess it's vaguely close,

752
00:46:42.960 --> 00:46:49.119
but not extremely close though. No. So after that, Helen

753
00:46:49.199 --> 00:46:53.119
returns to Cabrini Green and meets this young boy named Jake,

754
00:46:54.000 --> 00:46:59.679
and Jake is very like street wise. I mean, he's

755
00:46:59.679 --> 00:47:01.920
a little kid, but he's pretty smart.

756
00:47:02.199 --> 00:47:02.639
Yeah.

757
00:47:02.679 --> 00:47:05.880
But of course, the way she gets him to talk

758
00:47:06.039 --> 00:47:08.400
is she basically says, like, you know, you don't have

759
00:47:08.480 --> 00:47:10.559
to be afraid. He's like, I'm not afraid of anything.

760
00:47:11.199 --> 00:47:13.719
So then he starts helping her out, which could literally

761
00:47:13.719 --> 00:47:17.760
get him killed. Yeah, But he tells her a story

762
00:47:17.800 --> 00:47:23.199
about a developmentally disabled boy who was castrated in this

763
00:47:23.880 --> 00:47:29.280
local bathroom near Cabrini Green a long time ago, supposedly

764
00:47:29.440 --> 00:47:30.480
by candy Man.

765
00:47:31.480 --> 00:47:34.519
Yeah, and that picks her interest, so she goes to

766
00:47:34.599 --> 00:47:40.320
investigate that site, and she gets a little bit more

767
00:47:40.320 --> 00:47:43.639
than she bargained for, because then she does run into

768
00:47:43.679 --> 00:47:46.719
some people there as she's in the bathroom.

769
00:47:46.920 --> 00:47:50.599
Well, she runs into Candy Man. I mean, he introduces

770
00:47:50.679 --> 00:47:52.480
himself as Candyman.

771
00:47:52.760 --> 00:47:53.280
Yeah.

772
00:47:53.719 --> 00:47:58.960
So, and he does indeed have a hook and he

773
00:47:59.440 --> 00:48:03.039
doesn't pear to be afraid to use it. And what

774
00:48:03.159 --> 00:48:05.119
happens next you'll find out after this.

775
00:48:17.599 --> 00:48:20.719
So in the bathroom, Helen gets confronted by this guy

776
00:48:20.800 --> 00:48:26.079
who calls himself Candy Man, and he you know, attacks her,

777
00:48:26.119 --> 00:48:28.800
but she manages to get away, and then, you know,

778
00:48:28.840 --> 00:48:31.400
the very next scene is her at the police office

779
00:48:31.639 --> 00:48:36.320
looking at a lineup of guys trying to identify him,

780
00:48:36.440 --> 00:48:40.360
and she does. And so the police are able to

781
00:48:41.639 --> 00:48:45.559
connect this guy who's calling himself Candy Man, and he's

782
00:48:45.639 --> 00:48:47.800
like a leader of the gang, you know, one of

783
00:48:47.840 --> 00:48:51.280
the gangs there. They're able to connect him to one

784
00:48:51.320 --> 00:48:56.320
of the actual crimes, to the development developmentally disabled kid

785
00:48:56.519 --> 00:48:59.440
who was castrated and some other I think, I think,

786
00:48:59.480 --> 00:49:00.719
like one or two other murders.

787
00:49:00.800 --> 00:49:02.280
Right, they didn't connect him to the kid who was

788
00:49:02.280 --> 00:49:04.320
castrated that was in the nineteen seventies.

789
00:49:04.000 --> 00:49:06.360
Oh, I thought, didn't they connect him.

790
00:49:06.199 --> 00:49:10.000
To they connected him to the two murders. The murders, yeah, yeah, yeah,

791
00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:11.760
the kid was castrated. I remember, like the guy who

792
00:49:11.800 --> 00:49:13.760
ran out was wearing a friggin' beret, like it was

793
00:49:13.800 --> 00:49:16.159
like the sixties or seventies. Oh yeah when that happened.

794
00:49:16.159 --> 00:49:17.679
And the guy who was saying he's Candy Man was

795
00:49:17.719 --> 00:49:20.960
like twenty three years old, Yeah he was. Yeah. Yeah,

796
00:49:21.119 --> 00:49:24.400
So it's very clear that he's been using the Moniker

797
00:49:24.880 --> 00:49:28.920
and to an extent, the mo of Candy Man to

798
00:49:29.320 --> 00:49:35.079
enforce his street control and now he's busted.

799
00:49:35.119 --> 00:49:35.320
Now.

800
00:49:35.760 --> 00:49:39.880
Another point worth mentioning too, is it took this one

801
00:49:39.920 --> 00:49:42.519
white woman getting the shit beat out of her in

802
00:49:43.000 --> 00:49:45.400
near Cabrini Green to get this guy taken down, although

803
00:49:45.599 --> 00:49:47.119
they claimed that the reason they could never take the

804
00:49:47.119 --> 00:49:49.039
guy down because they knew who he was, was that

805
00:49:49.079 --> 00:49:54.079
nobody would would testify against him. Yeah, and she agrees

806
00:49:54.119 --> 00:49:56.760
to testify against him, as long as that means that

807
00:49:56.880 --> 00:50:02.239
the young boy, oh gosh, what's this oh Jake doesn't

808
00:50:02.239 --> 00:50:05.039
have to yeah, because it would potentially ruin Jake's life.

809
00:50:05.320 --> 00:50:06.280
Yeah.

810
00:50:06.320 --> 00:50:09.719
So yeah, they've now they've got the candy Man. But

811
00:50:09.840 --> 00:50:12.599
also I think that's a really interesting turn of events,

812
00:50:12.679 --> 00:50:17.599
because that tells you that the fact that they were like, oh, yeah,

813
00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:20.679
Candy Man is who did it? They weren't saying it

814
00:50:20.719 --> 00:50:24.159
was literally a ghost. They were saying, there's a guy

815
00:50:25.039 --> 00:50:27.639
freagain named Candy Man who will kill you if you

816
00:50:28.239 --> 00:50:30.679
don't pay your drug debt or if you, you know,

817
00:50:30.840 --> 00:50:33.320
get in the way of their business or whatever. Nobody

818
00:50:33.360 --> 00:50:36.400
ever said he was a mystical being. They said he

819
00:50:36.480 --> 00:50:38.679
came through the mirror and killed somebody with a hook,

820
00:50:38.880 --> 00:50:42.920
which literally this guy could do yeah and had done.

821
00:50:43.000 --> 00:50:46.000
So I think that's worth pointing out as well. You

822
00:50:46.000 --> 00:50:48.039
know that that really it seems like he was just

823
00:50:48.280 --> 00:50:54.920
a garden variety inner city psychopath who happened to have

824
00:50:54.960 --> 00:50:57.519
a flourish for the dramatic. I guess, yeah, you know

825
00:50:57.719 --> 00:51:00.159
who liked folklore. I suppose.

826
00:51:01.880 --> 00:51:01.960
So.

827
00:51:02.119 --> 00:51:04.199
I don't know. That was something that always stuck with me,

828
00:51:04.320 --> 00:51:06.599
was the whole fake out Candyman thing.

829
00:51:06.920 --> 00:51:09.559
Yeah. No, I think it's a really good fake out

830
00:51:09.880 --> 00:51:15.159
because it not only not only does it as the

831
00:51:15.239 --> 00:51:19.239
audience kind of deepen the mystique behind Candy Man when

832
00:51:19.280 --> 00:51:21.760
we do finally see him, because it's it's coming up soon,

833
00:51:23.159 --> 00:51:28.119
but it also it kind of makes Helen even more

834
00:51:28.159 --> 00:51:33.400
determined to like figure this out because even though it

835
00:51:33.519 --> 00:51:37.679
feels like, even though she realizes like, okay, the community

836
00:51:38.719 --> 00:51:43.320
is literally talk about this guy, why has the story

837
00:51:43.400 --> 00:51:46.639
stuck around for so long? Like how did he? You know,

838
00:51:46.760 --> 00:51:49.960
how did he keep this going? So she's still like

839
00:51:50.199 --> 00:51:53.880
very interested in how this Candy Man myth has evolved

840
00:51:53.920 --> 00:51:55.840
to the point that somebody is willing to take up

841
00:51:55.840 --> 00:51:56.559
that moniker.

842
00:51:56.880 --> 00:51:59.119
But there's a but there's an element to that that's

843
00:51:59.119 --> 00:52:02.039
really strange though, which is it's nineteen ninety two and

844
00:52:02.280 --> 00:52:04.400
basically there have been no mention of Candy Man for

845
00:52:04.440 --> 00:52:08.719
like twenty years until recently in Cabrini Green, because other

846
00:52:08.800 --> 00:52:12.880
than that boy being mutilated, there's been no reference to Candyman.

847
00:52:12.960 --> 00:52:16.800
No people have been killed by Candy Man, nothing, So

848
00:52:17.039 --> 00:52:22.280
that's worth mentioning too. Like his his his legend in

849
00:52:22.360 --> 00:52:25.920
Cabrini Green was not much of anything. He was more

850
00:52:25.960 --> 00:52:29.920
a you know, a whispered story for campfires and sleepovers

851
00:52:29.920 --> 00:52:33.440
and things like that. So and I mean, I think

852
00:52:33.480 --> 00:52:37.480
she is not as curious until she sees Candy Man,

853
00:52:37.679 --> 00:52:40.239
until he reveals himself to her, because she had been

854
00:52:40.280 --> 00:52:43.199
convinced that that Candy Man is actually this you know,

855
00:52:43.679 --> 00:52:47.840
horrible reality of the inner city life. And that's you know,

856
00:52:47.880 --> 00:52:50.800
what she's going to turn her report to. And that's

857
00:52:50.840 --> 00:52:53.880
when Candy Man reveals her, reveals himself to her in

858
00:52:53.920 --> 00:52:56.800
a parking garage. Yeah, and he's just standing there in

859
00:52:56.880 --> 00:52:59.000
broad daily and that's something Candy Man does that most

860
00:52:59.320 --> 00:53:02.800
horror villains do. He's always, not always, but he's often

861
00:53:02.840 --> 00:53:05.840
in the broad daylight. He's just right there to you. Yeah,

862
00:53:06.400 --> 00:53:10.360
which in part is because apparently only Helen can see him.

863
00:53:10.880 --> 00:53:13.639
Which I'm not saying that I one hundred percent believe

864
00:53:13.719 --> 00:53:15.519
that this is all in her head, but I think

865
00:53:15.559 --> 00:53:19.400
they laid a ton of hints and clues, including the

866
00:53:19.400 --> 00:53:24.840
fact that everybody around her believes it's in her head. Yeah,

867
00:53:24.880 --> 00:53:28.280
and that nobody gets killed by Candy Man unless she's around. Yeah,

868
00:53:28.800 --> 00:53:32.599
the real Candy Man, not the not the fake gun. Yeah. So,

869
00:53:33.280 --> 00:53:36.440
but he explains that the reason he's showing himself to

870
00:53:36.480 --> 00:53:41.199
her is because she's discredited his legend and that because

871
00:53:41.199 --> 00:53:44.920
of that, he has to shed innocent blood in order

872
00:53:45.000 --> 00:53:49.360
to maintain that that legend and that presence, which is

873
00:53:49.400 --> 00:53:56.760
really interesting because that's very grandiose and very egotistical Yeah,

874
00:53:56.840 --> 00:53:59.360
he doesn't come off the way I feel like and

875
00:54:00.119 --> 00:54:02.840
you know, when we're talking in the world of Candy Man,

876
00:54:02.840 --> 00:54:05.880
we're talking in the world of you know, slasher movie

877
00:54:05.960 --> 00:54:09.960
legends and stuff. I'm not saying anything is possible or impossible,

878
00:54:10.400 --> 00:54:12.960
but he doesn't come across as a star crossed lover

879
00:54:13.079 --> 00:54:16.679
who was wronged and needs vengeance. He comes across as

880
00:54:16.719 --> 00:54:21.039
like a narcissistic being who wants his standing.

881
00:54:21.760 --> 00:54:26.079
Yeah, yeah, you see what I'm saying. It's it's as

882
00:54:26.199 --> 00:54:28.880
much as he wants Helen to, you know, be his

883
00:54:29.719 --> 00:54:35.480
new lover, it is way more about maintaining the hold

884
00:54:35.559 --> 00:54:39.679
that he has in mythology and kind of like keeping

885
00:54:39.840 --> 00:54:44.559
his like you said, keeping his standing in everyone's minds well.

886
00:54:44.559 --> 00:54:48.480
And I want to mention whenever he basically hypnotizes her,

887
00:54:49.320 --> 00:54:53.960
it's romantic and I mean, but not subtly like I

888
00:54:53.960 --> 00:54:56.079
don't know if you noticed, But they don't just give

889
00:54:56.159 --> 00:55:00.280
her like the soft filter lens treatment. They do her

890
00:55:00.320 --> 00:55:02.920
makeup nicer. Yeah, when they cut to the close ups

891
00:55:02.960 --> 00:55:06.280
of her face looking at him. Every time they do that,

892
00:55:06.360 --> 00:55:12.079
her makeup is like perfectly done, even if the scene

893
00:55:12.119 --> 00:55:16.960
before she was wearing almost no makeup. But I mean

894
00:55:17.039 --> 00:55:19.559
that makes sense because it paints a picture. It gives

895
00:55:19.599 --> 00:55:23.119
you a scene, a literal scene, and a figurative scene.

896
00:55:23.920 --> 00:55:26.920
The scene is a beautiful woman and this man. But

897
00:55:28.000 --> 00:55:33.239
this is why I really wonder about the feasibility of

898
00:55:33.280 --> 00:55:37.199
there being a candy Man. Helen didn't have any of

899
00:55:37.199 --> 00:55:39.519
these moments with candy Man like that until she heard

900
00:55:39.519 --> 00:55:44.000
the story, yeah, about the original guy and the fact

901
00:55:44.000 --> 00:55:45.719
that they called him candy man because he was covered

902
00:55:45.719 --> 00:55:47.800
in honey as he was stung to death by bees,

903
00:55:47.800 --> 00:55:52.280
which is so cruel and brilliant, I mean, like brilliant storytelling. Yeah,

904
00:55:52.320 --> 00:55:56.159
not a brilliant insult. It's honestly kind of lazy. But

905
00:55:56.440 --> 00:55:59.199
like the moment is, it's so weird though. It's like,

906
00:55:59.360 --> 00:56:02.079
she hears about the hook, she sees a hook, she sees,

907
00:56:02.239 --> 00:56:05.119
she sees the image in the in the abandoned apartment.

908
00:56:05.400 --> 00:56:08.559
Now she's you know, seeing silhouettes of a black man

909
00:56:08.639 --> 00:56:11.880
that looks like that, and now she hears the story

910
00:56:11.880 --> 00:56:14.320
about a love affair with a you know, a beautiful

911
00:56:14.559 --> 00:56:17.719
white woman, and now she's a part of a love

912
00:56:17.760 --> 00:56:18.559
affair with him.

913
00:56:18.880 --> 00:56:19.360
Yeah.

914
00:56:19.679 --> 00:56:23.719
Yeah, And that's what makes me like really wonder if

915
00:56:24.679 --> 00:56:28.000
her psyche is breaking or something m hm. Because and

916
00:56:28.079 --> 00:56:30.639
also the fact that as we get further in, everybody

917
00:56:30.840 --> 00:56:34.639
thinks her psyche is breaking. And as much as you know,

918
00:56:34.719 --> 00:56:36.559
you could say, like, well, that's the point. The point

919
00:56:36.639 --> 00:56:39.039
is to make her, you know, doubt reality so that

920
00:56:39.119 --> 00:56:41.679
she's you know, it's the scary thing. It's like, yeah,

921
00:56:41.719 --> 00:56:44.280
but if everybody was right and she was just crazy,

922
00:56:44.320 --> 00:56:45.639
that's a really scary ending.

923
00:56:45.920 --> 00:56:47.639
Yeah, no, it is.

924
00:56:47.840 --> 00:56:52.400
Really scary ending. So but I mean, but again, like

925
00:56:52.440 --> 00:56:53.760
I don't know in the movie, that's one of the

926
00:56:53.760 --> 00:56:57.280
best parts is it doesn't tell you, yeah, in any way,

927
00:56:57.800 --> 00:57:01.760
you know, straight up what happened, you know, what really happened,

928
00:57:01.760 --> 00:57:05.719
which I like, yeah. So but remember he said like

929
00:57:05.760 --> 00:57:09.239
he has to spill innocent blood every time Candy Man

930
00:57:09.280 --> 00:57:11.800
appears to her. This is the other questionable thing. She

931
00:57:11.840 --> 00:57:16.559
blacks out, and when she wakes up, horrible things have happened,

932
00:57:17.280 --> 00:57:19.519
and we'll talk about those right after this.

933
00:57:32.559 --> 00:57:37.800
So Helen comes to and she is covered in blood

934
00:57:39.000 --> 00:57:45.800
and in her hand she's holding a knife, and there's

935
00:57:45.880 --> 00:57:50.079
blood all over the walls. When she looks down at

936
00:57:50.079 --> 00:57:52.559
the floor, she sees something on the floor and then

937
00:57:52.559 --> 00:57:55.679
she realizes it's the head of a dog in the hallway.

938
00:57:55.760 --> 00:58:01.280
It's in the hallway, and she hears screaming and whaling

939
00:58:01.360 --> 00:58:05.920
and crying, and she's very obviously, very confused and disoriented

940
00:58:05.960 --> 00:58:08.719
because she doesn't quite recognize where she is.

941
00:58:08.920 --> 00:58:13.199
And from the audience's perspective, that's clearly Anne Marie's dog

942
00:58:13.360 --> 00:58:16.599
because he pops up early on when she meets Anne Marie.

943
00:58:16.639 --> 00:58:20.239
It's a very big rottweiler. So it's, yeah, it's very

944
00:58:20.280 --> 00:58:23.840
obvious that that's Anne Marie's Rottweiler, and that the screaming,

945
00:58:23.840 --> 00:58:28.480
whaling must be Anne Marie h and it's it's a

946
00:58:28.480 --> 00:58:32.239
real horror scene, without a doubt. So she's carrying this

947
00:58:32.320 --> 00:58:36.880
knife and the dog has clearly been slaughtered. And rottweiler's,

948
00:58:36.880 --> 00:58:39.639
you know, especially in the inner city, especially in that

949
00:58:39.800 --> 00:58:44.920
period of time, they were very common protection dogs. I

950
00:58:44.960 --> 00:58:47.280
feel like, you know, in the modern era, they've been

951
00:58:47.320 --> 00:58:49.800
replaced a lot by just pitbulls. Yeah, just everybody has

952
00:58:49.800 --> 00:58:53.599
a pitbull. But back then, rottweiler's were like what you

953
00:58:53.719 --> 00:58:57.199
got if you didn't want anybody to mess with your stuff. Yeah,

954
00:58:57.559 --> 00:59:02.159
So as she goes to find Anne Marie, Anne Marie

955
00:59:02.239 --> 00:59:07.880
is in Anthony's bedroom, screaming and wailing and the crib

956
00:59:07.960 --> 00:59:09.159
is just drenched in blood.

957
00:59:10.039 --> 00:59:16.079
Yeah, and Helen kind of like approaches her, and Anne

958
00:59:16.119 --> 00:59:19.079
Marie whips around and just starts screaming like you you

959
00:59:19.239 --> 00:59:22.360
killed him, you hurt my baby, wears my baby? What

960
00:59:22.440 --> 00:59:26.320
did you do with him? And an Anne Marie kind

961
00:59:26.360 --> 00:59:30.599
of like goes to attack Helen, and Helen, you know,

962
00:59:30.679 --> 00:59:33.960
still has the knife, so she defends herself and and

963
00:59:34.079 --> 00:59:37.639
cuts Anne Marie and then you know, the police come

964
00:59:38.280 --> 00:59:44.320
and they arrest Helen and then her husband, you know,

965
00:59:44.400 --> 00:59:47.400
kind of he manages to bail her out of jail.

966
00:59:47.719 --> 00:59:49.159
But you left out one of I think one of

967
00:59:49.159 --> 00:59:53.360
the most horrific scenes in the film when when she's

968
00:59:53.400 --> 00:59:56.440
being she's standing in front of the police covered in

969
00:59:56.480 --> 00:59:59.159
blood and they're making a remover her bloody clothes and

970
00:59:59.159 --> 01:00:01.840
hand them over for evidence, and she just keeps saying like,

971
01:00:01.840 --> 01:00:03.559
can I please take a shower? And they're just like

972
01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:06.639
not take off your bra your brazier, you know, and

973
01:00:06.639 --> 01:00:08.000
they're making your hands it over. I just think that

974
01:00:08.079 --> 01:00:12.400
scene is like really raw. It is and and and rough,

975
01:00:12.440 --> 01:00:15.039
and I mean, like, as a woman, I feel like

976
01:00:15.039 --> 01:00:16.960
it would hit harder no.

977
01:00:17.079 --> 01:00:21.840
That that scene is very tough I think that it

978
01:00:21.960 --> 01:00:28.320
was kind of a kindness that they had. The officer

979
01:00:28.679 --> 01:00:32.119
who was instructing her to like get undressed was a

980
01:00:32.119 --> 01:00:36.360
female officer. And it's kind of funny because we saw

981
01:00:36.400 --> 01:00:39.400
that actor in something else recently.

982
01:00:39.519 --> 01:00:43.320
The actress was in a final episode of Better Call Saul.

983
01:00:43.679 --> 01:00:47.000
But no, it's and and Helen. The whole time is

984
01:00:47.039 --> 01:00:49.280
she's asking, you know, she's kind of like begging, like

985
01:00:49.360 --> 01:00:53.400
can I take a shower? She's also saying like is

986
01:00:53.719 --> 01:00:56.719
That's when she even then starts saying like it wasn't

987
01:00:56.840 --> 01:01:00.400
like it wasn't me And of course no one's no

988
01:01:00.440 --> 01:01:01.400
one's listening to her.

989
01:01:01.480 --> 01:01:04.639
Well, she's saying she doesn't know what happened, Yeah.

990
01:01:04.920 --> 01:01:08.400
Which is true. She what I mean, you know, she

991
01:01:09.599 --> 01:01:15.800
was not clearly conscious. So yeah, that that was a

992
01:01:15.840 --> 01:01:22.480
pretty powerful scene and it really makes Helen way more

993
01:01:22.599 --> 01:01:27.159
vulnerable throughout the rest of the movie. So that's after

994
01:01:27.400 --> 01:01:32.079
after that, after you know, she's been interrogated in everything

995
01:01:32.159 --> 01:01:36.360
is when her husband Bailts are out of jail, right who.

996
01:01:36.199 --> 01:01:38.199
And he did not answer the phone when she called

997
01:01:38.280 --> 01:01:40.840
him with her one phone call, it went went to

998
01:01:40.880 --> 01:01:44.800
the answering machine, which would suggest he wasn't home. So

999
01:01:44.840 --> 01:01:47.519
when he shows up, she's like, where were you when?

1000
01:01:47.519 --> 01:01:49.119
He was like, I was at home, fast asleep. I

1001
01:01:49.159 --> 01:01:52.840
didn't the call didn't wake me up. I mean, that

1002
01:01:52.880 --> 01:01:57.800
could be true. He clearly drinks a lot. Yeah, I mean,

1003
01:01:57.840 --> 01:01:59.760
I mean, because there's a there's a scene where we

1004
01:01:59.800 --> 01:02:02.440
have one of her early like fake out scares earlier

1005
01:02:02.440 --> 01:02:04.440
in the movie. Is he like jumps into bed and

1006
01:02:04.440 --> 01:02:07.440
scares the hell out of her, and literally he's just

1007
01:02:07.519 --> 01:02:10.760
like I am wrecked or something. You know, he just

1008
01:02:10.760 --> 01:02:13.599
like falls asleep. So he's clearly he'll he'll go out

1009
01:02:13.599 --> 01:02:19.360
and tie one off. So I mean that could be believable. Yeah, that,

1010
01:02:19.800 --> 01:02:23.000
you know, maybe possibly it seems sus though.

1011
01:02:23.039 --> 01:02:27.679
And yeah, yeah, especially you know, along with that female

1012
01:02:27.679 --> 01:02:32.119
student give him and given him all that attention. But

1013
01:02:32.920 --> 01:02:38.599
then when Helen's back home, she's looking at the pictures

1014
01:02:38.639 --> 01:02:41.159
and photographs and everything that she took while she was

1015
01:02:41.199 --> 01:02:42.360
at Cabrini Green.

1016
01:02:42.239 --> 01:02:43.840
The ones she thought had been destroyed.

1017
01:02:44.159 --> 01:02:50.320
Yeah, and she realizes that in the background of some

1018
01:02:50.360 --> 01:02:55.679
of the pictures she can see a figure that looks

1019
01:02:55.760 --> 01:03:01.280
like candy Man. Yes, and she wants to or no

1020
01:03:01.639 --> 01:03:03.960
because uh, candy Man attacks her again.

1021
01:03:04.079 --> 01:03:07.000
Then yeah, he shows up after she recognizes him and

1022
01:03:07.039 --> 01:03:11.199
the images, and again recognizes him in images after she's

1023
01:03:11.280 --> 01:03:14.840
already become aware of what he looks like and stuff. Yeah,

1024
01:03:14.840 --> 01:03:16.840
which I think is just worth pointing out that there

1025
01:03:16.920 --> 01:03:19.519
is a lot because I mean, she's the main you know,

1026
01:03:19.559 --> 01:03:21.519
it's tricky because she's the main character, so you're already

1027
01:03:21.559 --> 01:03:24.199
everything is from her perspective for the most part. But

1028
01:03:25.199 --> 01:03:28.000
I do think there's a lot of sussness with the

1029
01:03:28.039 --> 01:03:33.360
whole fact that she observes everything, and the the the

1030
01:03:33.480 --> 01:03:35.400
order of a lot of stuff is kind of strange.

1031
01:03:35.639 --> 01:03:35.960
Yeah.

1032
01:03:36.079 --> 01:03:39.199
Yeah, you know, she hears these stories about him, and

1033
01:03:39.239 --> 01:03:41.760
then the next thing is that, yeah, you know, is

1034
01:03:41.800 --> 01:03:46.280
what she just heard. And that's the way folklore works,

1035
01:03:47.119 --> 01:03:50.239
you know, is the more details you get there you

1036
01:03:50.280 --> 01:03:53.320
have it. I Mean, one other thought I had about

1037
01:03:53.320 --> 01:03:57.920
Candy Man was that if it isn't just her being insane,

1038
01:03:58.000 --> 01:04:01.000
then it could be that Candy Man is literally just

1039
01:04:01.079 --> 01:04:04.400
whatever you think he is, because that's how folklore works.

1040
01:04:05.039 --> 01:04:07.679
So it's just oh, if you know, if you have

1041
01:04:07.719 --> 01:04:09.679
it in your head that I'm, you know, a black

1042
01:04:09.719 --> 01:04:11.960
man who was you know, the son of a freed

1043
01:04:12.039 --> 01:04:14.599
slave who got murdered, then I'll be and then I'm

1044
01:04:14.599 --> 01:04:17.400
that now, because it's whatever haunts your dreams, whatever makes

1045
01:04:17.440 --> 01:04:20.719
you scared, and I don't hate that idea. In the

1046
01:04:21.199 --> 01:04:25.960
Candyman remake sequel from twenty twenty one, they kind of

1047
01:04:26.039 --> 01:04:30.880
leaned into this idea that that society creates Candy Man,

1048
01:04:31.760 --> 01:04:34.239
like every thirty or forty years, there's just another one.

1049
01:04:34.639 --> 01:04:36.480
Oh okay, and it just kind of happens again and

1050
01:04:36.519 --> 01:04:39.800
again and again. Because there are so many things about

1051
01:04:39.800 --> 01:04:42.480
the human experience and about human suffering that are cyclical,

1052
01:04:42.840 --> 01:04:45.960
they just happen again, like Pete wrongful, people get killed, Okay,

1053
01:04:46.079 --> 01:04:49.079
it just happens. Yeah, and especially and because again it's

1054
01:04:49.079 --> 01:04:51.440
a very I mean, it's a it was directed written

1055
01:04:51.519 --> 01:04:53.719
maybe written as well, but it was directed by Naiada Costa,

1056
01:04:54.000 --> 01:04:58.639
and she's a pretty good director by and large, and

1057
01:04:58.719 --> 01:05:00.840
I think, you know, especially say that about the Inner

1058
01:05:00.840 --> 01:05:02.039
City is very fair.

1059
01:05:02.159 --> 01:05:04.480
Oh yeah, absolutely so.

1060
01:05:04.760 --> 01:05:08.199
Yeah. So now he attacks her, he cuts her neck,

1061
01:05:08.559 --> 01:05:13.159
she bleeds and passes out, and at that point Bernadette

1062
01:05:13.239 --> 01:05:18.159
arrives at Helen's apartment, and we don't see anything other

1063
01:05:18.199 --> 01:05:22.760
than Helen awakening and Bernadette has been friggin' murdered. And

1064
01:05:22.800 --> 01:05:25.079
that's one thing I will say, you know, because I

1065
01:05:25.440 --> 01:05:29.119
do find this movie to be very cerebral, but it

1066
01:05:29.280 --> 01:05:33.360
really does not shy away from the like really shocking,

1067
01:05:34.119 --> 01:05:38.280
bloody deaths. Yeah, and we'll talk about those more right

1068
01:05:38.320 --> 01:05:38.760
after this.

1069
01:05:51.719 --> 01:05:55.840
So one thing that I really like about the art

1070
01:05:55.920 --> 01:05:59.559
direction of Candy Man and you know, the visual and

1071
01:05:59.639 --> 01:06:07.519
special effects is oddly enough, the murder scenes, because they

1072
01:06:07.960 --> 01:06:12.000
they frame it in such a way and they have

1073
01:06:12.199 --> 01:06:17.199
everything set up where it really feels like crime scene photography.

1074
01:06:18.199 --> 01:06:23.360
And it's especially effective because Helen, you know, Helen's kind

1075
01:06:23.400 --> 01:06:26.480
of the character that we're seeing everything through her eyes.

1076
01:06:27.360 --> 01:06:31.920
She's the main narrator and she's the person stumbling on

1077
01:06:32.000 --> 01:06:36.440
these crime scenes or causing the crime scenes. But she's

1078
01:06:37.079 --> 01:06:39.960
you know, she's not conscious, she's not aware while the

1079
01:06:39.960 --> 01:06:44.119
crimes are happening, So we don't see the physical violence.

1080
01:06:44.199 --> 01:06:45.880
We just see the aftermath.

1081
01:06:46.000 --> 01:06:48.280
Yeah, they're that viral. Only a couple of deaths where

1082
01:06:48.320 --> 01:06:50.880
we actually see violence as it happens, and a lot

1083
01:06:50.920 --> 01:06:53.280
of that was cut out of the R rated version

1084
01:06:53.519 --> 01:06:55.559
we did watch when we rewatched it the other night,

1085
01:06:55.599 --> 01:06:58.119
we watched the uncut yeah, which only I mean, it's

1086
01:06:58.159 --> 01:07:01.840
like it's like eight or nine seconds more stuff, Yeah,

1087
01:07:02.000 --> 01:07:07.800
mostly involving the soon to come psychiatrist. But yeah, the

1088
01:07:08.880 --> 01:07:12.880
every time she comes out of her blackouts, my first

1089
01:07:12.880 --> 01:07:16.239
thought is like, this is so much blood. Yeah, Like

1090
01:07:16.360 --> 01:07:19.800
it is just an unbelievable amount of blood. And I

1091
01:07:19.840 --> 01:07:23.639
think that I don't know if if it's that there

1092
01:07:23.679 --> 01:07:26.320
would be that much blood in real life, or if

1093
01:07:26.320 --> 01:07:29.639
it's that that amount of blood will make you think

1094
01:07:30.360 --> 01:07:33.320
what the actual person would be thinking, because which would

1095
01:07:33.320 --> 01:07:35.039
be like, I cannot believe how much blood there is,

1096
01:07:35.039 --> 01:07:37.639
because I feel like that would be the reality if

1097
01:07:37.639 --> 01:07:39.639
you were sitting in a room and somebody had been

1098
01:07:40.159 --> 01:07:43.159
murdered and cut up. No, you would be you would

1099
01:07:43.159 --> 01:07:45.360
be shocked by all the blood. Yes, So so part

1100
01:07:45.360 --> 01:07:47.239
of me thinks that that's like an artistic way to

1101
01:07:47.280 --> 01:07:50.079
get the same guttural response out of us as if

1102
01:07:50.079 --> 01:07:51.679
you were actually in the room, because you would be

1103
01:07:51.679 --> 01:07:54.280
shocked by the blood. So they're just amping the blood

1104
01:07:54.320 --> 01:07:55.599
way up, so you go, oh my god, there's so

1105
01:07:55.639 --> 01:08:00.920
much blood. Yeah. But at this point the police come

1106
01:08:01.639 --> 01:08:05.679
and they take Helen away, and now she is uh

1107
01:08:06.159 --> 01:08:10.320
being committed to a psychiatric hospital, which honestly kind of

1108
01:08:10.400 --> 01:08:13.519
checks out. Yeah, And there's a really awesome scene where

1109
01:08:13.519 --> 01:08:16.880
she's tied to her bed and Candy Man starts like

1110
01:08:16.960 --> 01:08:20.039
almost hovering, like hovering above her bed, yeah, and talking

1111
01:08:20.039 --> 01:08:23.800
to her, you know, doing his usual like weird seductive

1112
01:08:24.439 --> 01:08:27.039
talk that Tony Todd does so well because his voice

1113
01:08:27.119 --> 01:08:31.479
is just incredible, and she's thrashing and yelling he's under

1114
01:08:31.520 --> 01:08:33.920
the bed, he's you know, he's here right now and

1115
01:08:34.000 --> 01:08:38.000
all the stuff. And then she blacks out again and

1116
01:08:38.039 --> 01:08:43.159
when she comes to, she's she's talking to she's talking

1117
01:08:43.159 --> 01:08:45.439
to a doctor and she finds out that it's been

1118
01:08:45.479 --> 01:08:49.880
a month. Yeah, which that is such a scary reveal

1119
01:08:49.960 --> 01:08:52.840
when time is completely moving along and you have no idea.

1120
01:08:52.880 --> 01:08:56.840
That's so scary. That's really like just so unsettling. I

1121
01:08:56.840 --> 01:09:01.800
mean talk about feeling feeling all killed her and confused.

1122
01:09:02.399 --> 01:09:04.880
It also is like there's a sense of violation, like

1123
01:09:04.920 --> 01:09:07.640
your time was taken from you. Yeah, you know that

1124
01:09:07.720 --> 01:09:10.199
was a month of your life. You didn't get somebody

1125
01:09:10.239 --> 01:09:13.119
took it from you. It's it's insane, and it's because

1126
01:09:13.119 --> 01:09:15.600
they've been trying to find the right drug cocktail to

1127
01:09:15.640 --> 01:09:19.840
stabilize her, because she's been, as far as they can tell,

1128
01:09:19.880 --> 01:09:23.720
just killing everybody. And this scene is another one that's

1129
01:09:23.800 --> 01:09:29.479
really interesting because when she sits with the psychiatrist, the

1130
01:09:29.520 --> 01:09:33.479
psychiatrist is very direct with her. He tells her, you know.

1131
01:09:33.520 --> 01:09:35.680
She's like, so, you're trying to prove, you know, I

1132
01:09:36.439 --> 01:09:39.520
killed these people, and he goes, I'm on your side.

1133
01:09:39.600 --> 01:09:42.720
I'm trying to prove that you're not sane enough to

1134
01:09:42.760 --> 01:09:45.800
stand trial. Like he's basically saying, like I'm trying to.

1135
01:09:46.119 --> 01:09:49.119
My point is that you don't deserve to be tried

1136
01:09:49.159 --> 01:09:52.439
for these murders because you don't understand what you did

1137
01:09:52.760 --> 01:09:55.720
or that you did it, which is funny because you

1138
01:09:55.760 --> 01:10:01.079
know that's fair, but it also like doesn't click. You know, yeah,

1139
01:10:01.199 --> 01:10:02.840
just like all I'm hearing is you think I'm crazy.

1140
01:10:02.880 --> 01:10:04.760
He's like, yeah, but I'm saying you're not. You don't

1141
01:10:04.800 --> 01:10:06.680
deserve the death penalty, is what I'm trying to say.

1142
01:10:06.760 --> 01:10:09.439
And it's like, yeah, yeah, but that doesn't necessarily make

1143
01:10:09.479 --> 01:10:10.279
me feel just.

1144
01:10:10.239 --> 01:10:12.760
Like, women, I'm trying to keep you from being killed.

1145
01:10:12.840 --> 01:10:15.720
You think I'm crazy, I'll show you crazy just like

1146
01:10:15.800 --> 01:10:19.880
I want. Man no, uh but but no. Uh So

1147
01:10:20.800 --> 01:10:24.680
he shows her a video of that moment when he

1148
01:10:24.720 --> 01:10:28.159
was hovering over the bed and it's only her yeah,

1149
01:10:28.199 --> 01:10:30.239
there's no one else there. But the doctor even says

1150
01:10:30.239 --> 01:10:34.079
like was he there when that was happening, Like did

1151
01:10:34.079 --> 01:10:37.520
you see him? And she is just completely confused. She's like,

1152
01:10:37.560 --> 01:10:39.079
I don't understand because.

1153
01:10:38.840 --> 01:10:41.159
Yeah, because he was there, he was there, I saw him.

1154
01:10:41.239 --> 01:10:43.119
Yeah, and he wasn't standing on the other side of

1155
01:10:43.119 --> 01:10:44.720
the room or something. He was so close she could

1156
01:10:44.720 --> 01:10:45.600
probably spell him.

1157
01:10:45.920 --> 01:10:46.920
Yeah.

1158
01:10:46.960 --> 01:10:50.000
And again though, this is where I start to wonder

1159
01:10:50.000 --> 01:10:53.800
if he really is in her mind, because.

1160
01:10:54.680 --> 01:10:57.560
Yeah, because she they got video evidence of.

1161
01:10:57.560 --> 01:10:59.640
Her just thrashing by herself. Now, of course you'd be like, well,

1162
01:10:59.640 --> 01:11:03.880
candy Man only you know, showing himself to her. Sure, absolutely,

1163
01:11:04.520 --> 01:11:08.640
but that doesn't bode well for the idea that she

1164
01:11:08.760 --> 01:11:11.000
might just be insane that only she can see him,

1165
01:11:11.000 --> 01:11:12.800
because that's also an insanity thing.

1166
01:11:13.319 --> 01:11:15.920
You know, is that that's not the slam dunk I

1167
01:11:15.920 --> 01:11:16.760
think you think it is.

1168
01:11:16.920 --> 01:11:20.920
No, no, no, So she tries to prove her innocence

1169
01:11:21.000 --> 01:11:26.680
by saying Candy Man's name into a mirror in the room. Nothing,

1170
01:11:26.800 --> 01:11:28.520
you know, seems to happen, and then all of a sudden,

1171
01:11:29.319 --> 01:11:32.159
the doctor starts spitting up blood and Candy Man has

1172
01:11:32.239 --> 01:11:36.319
shoved a hook through him and ripped his guts out basically.

1173
01:11:36.479 --> 01:11:37.159
Yeah.

1174
01:11:37.359 --> 01:11:39.640
He then and this is one of my favorite, just

1175
01:11:39.680 --> 01:11:43.119
like totally terrifying scenes. And then he just calmly walks

1176
01:11:43.159 --> 01:11:46.279
over her and just undoes her her restraints and does

1177
01:11:46.279 --> 01:11:49.279
her restraints. That's it, you know, He's just like, yeah,

1178
01:11:49.479 --> 01:11:55.000
you can go, basically, and she ends up deciding like okay,

1179
01:11:55.079 --> 01:11:58.840
And now yet again someone has died killed by candy Man.

1180
01:11:58.920 --> 01:12:01.399
Only she saw candy Man. Only she was in the

1181
01:12:01.479 --> 01:12:03.800
room with the person who died. Now, of course, you

1182
01:12:03.800 --> 01:12:07.359
could make the argument while she was restrained, where did

1183
01:12:07.399 --> 01:12:09.800
she get the hook or whatever? For all we know,

1184
01:12:09.960 --> 01:12:13.399
that's just her perception, and in reality, he had undone

1185
01:12:13.439 --> 01:12:17.279
her restraints for some reason that made sense, and then

1186
01:12:17.319 --> 01:12:19.680
she freaking murdered the shit out of the guy.

1187
01:12:20.039 --> 01:12:20.720
Yeah fair.

1188
01:12:20.840 --> 01:12:22.199
I mean, I'm just saying, like that would be the

1189
01:12:22.319 --> 01:12:24.960
argument I would make for it to just be in

1190
01:12:25.000 --> 01:12:27.800
her mind, is that it's just the order of incidence

1191
01:12:27.840 --> 01:12:30.720
is inaccurate. I mean, if you're imagining an entire other

1192
01:12:30.800 --> 01:12:34.279
human being doing things, I think you could misremember or

1193
01:12:34.319 --> 01:12:37.960
misobserve how you got unrestrained. Yeah, you know, and the

1194
01:12:38.000 --> 01:12:41.399
fact that he unrestrains her suggests that that was a

1195
01:12:41.439 --> 01:12:43.159
part of if it was a delusion, that would be

1196
01:12:43.199 --> 01:12:45.640
part of the delusion would be how she got unhooked.

1197
01:12:46.319 --> 01:12:49.720
So I don't know, like some part of me really

1198
01:12:50.119 --> 01:12:52.800
kind of thinks that that makes a lot of sense,

1199
01:12:53.600 --> 01:12:55.840
that he's just in her mind. But that is also

1200
01:12:55.840 --> 01:12:57.840
what they're trying to push to us as the audience.

1201
01:12:58.399 --> 01:13:01.960
Yeah, well, and that's that's the thing, is the you know,

1202
01:13:02.039 --> 01:13:06.720
the institution, the you know, the doctor, the police, the everything,

1203
01:13:06.800 --> 01:13:10.520
they all assume just what you're saying, that Helen's just

1204
01:13:10.640 --> 01:13:16.840
absolutely insane, that she's hallucinating a killer, and she's actually

1205
01:13:16.840 --> 01:13:21.159
the one that's been committing these murders. So and that

1206
01:13:21.159 --> 01:13:25.880
that also the very end kind of throws a wrench

1207
01:13:25.920 --> 01:13:28.960
in that theory. And we'll get to that. We'll get

1208
01:13:29.000 --> 01:13:31.560
to that, like yeah, for sure, Well yeah, but it's

1209
01:13:31.600 --> 01:13:33.039
still a very interesting theory.

1210
01:13:33.159 --> 01:13:35.239
Well, and there's also I mean, the white savior element,

1211
01:13:35.279 --> 01:13:37.119
which is like, how am I hurting? I only came

1212
01:13:37.159 --> 01:13:39.039
here to help, Like I don't know, I don't know

1213
01:13:39.079 --> 01:13:42.119
how I hurt these people. Yeah, yeah, you know that

1214
01:13:42.119 --> 01:13:45.800
that's a little bit of odd subtext too. But now

1215
01:13:46.039 --> 01:13:50.119
she's escaped the hospital and she's heading home, but home

1216
01:13:50.279 --> 01:13:53.680
isn't exactly what she remembered right after this.

1217
01:14:06.640 --> 01:14:10.800
So Helen, having just broken out of the hospital, returns

1218
01:14:10.840 --> 01:14:16.119
back home and the walls are different. They're a different color.

1219
01:14:16.039 --> 01:14:21.079
Which is a sign of insanity. I mean it could

1220
01:14:21.119 --> 01:14:24.399
be I'm just I'm just now, I'm just into gas lamping.

1221
01:14:25.199 --> 01:14:32.920
Hey, hey you. So she walks into uh, she walks

1222
01:14:32.960 --> 01:14:36.479
into their home. The walls are a different color, there's

1223
01:14:36.960 --> 01:14:47.079
new furniture everywhere, and she is livid, rightfully so and

1224
01:14:47.720 --> 01:14:52.239
because uh, well her suspiion, I did I did bury

1225
01:14:52.279 --> 01:14:55.079
the lead a little too much. So her husband has

1226
01:14:55.199 --> 01:14:59.640
moved in, uh the student that was given him the

1227
01:14:59.680 --> 01:15:06.359
guy eyes and is dating her now. And Helen, she's

1228
01:15:06.399 --> 01:15:08.840
got a good point, Like she was only gone for

1229
01:15:08.880 --> 01:15:12.960
a month, so that moved pretty fast.

1230
01:15:13.600 --> 01:15:18.039
Yeah, in his defense, it appeared there was incontrovertible proof

1231
01:15:18.079 --> 01:15:21.359
that she'd committed murder. So what was he expecting her

1232
01:15:21.399 --> 01:15:26.720
to come home soon? I don't know about all that, man.

1233
01:15:27.760 --> 01:15:35.319
I do love how Stacy, his new squeeze, is like terrified.

1234
01:15:35.359 --> 01:15:37.479
Like the moment she sees her, like standing there, she

1235
01:15:37.560 --> 01:15:41.720
just starts almost crying and saving and screaming for Trevor.

1236
01:15:42.960 --> 01:15:46.000
Once she you know. She confronts about that, he basically says, like,

1237
01:15:46.039 --> 01:15:49.039
you know, I didn't expect you to ever get out.

1238
01:15:50.079 --> 01:15:54.279
It didn't look good. No, I mean her best friend

1239
01:15:54.399 --> 01:15:58.119
was slaughtered in her apartment. Yeah, and we don't even

1240
01:15:58.159 --> 01:15:59.920
know all the details there because she came to all

1241
01:16:00.119 --> 01:16:02.840
ready like tied up, like was she covered in her

1242
01:16:02.840 --> 01:16:08.039
blood entirely? Who knows. So she ditches out of there

1243
01:16:08.359 --> 01:16:14.119
and heads to Cabrini Green to rescue Anthony, because that's

1244
01:16:14.159 --> 01:16:17.439
something we kind of glossed over. Anthony was not found,

1245
01:16:17.479 --> 01:16:19.880
his corpse wasn't found, and they did at one point

1246
01:16:19.920 --> 01:16:21.960
point out that the blood was just from the dog.

1247
01:16:22.079 --> 01:16:24.439
All of that blood was from the dog. Yeah. At

1248
01:16:24.439 --> 01:16:28.159
the first at Anne Marie's place, so and uh, and

1249
01:16:28.319 --> 01:16:31.720
Candy Man had hinted that he had Anthony the baby.

1250
01:16:32.479 --> 01:16:35.079
So she finds Candy Man in his little layer in

1251
01:16:35.159 --> 01:16:39.079
Cabrini Green and he tells her that if she surrenders

1252
01:16:39.159 --> 01:16:44.399
to him, he will ensure that Anthony can stay alive.

1253
01:16:44.479 --> 01:16:50.279
Basically yeah and uh. But then to try to sweeten

1254
01:16:50.359 --> 01:16:53.680
the deal ha ha ha ha this candy Man, because

1255
01:16:54.119 --> 01:16:57.680
bees he tells Helen like, not like if she stays

1256
01:16:57.680 --> 01:17:01.039
with him. He's offering her immortality because she would get

1257
01:17:01.079 --> 01:17:04.520
to be with him forever. But then he does one

1258
01:17:04.560 --> 01:17:06.399
of the big moments of the movie, which is he

1259
01:17:06.479 --> 01:17:10.840
opens his coat and reveals a rib cage covered in bees.

1260
01:17:11.000 --> 01:17:14.880
Bees coming out from his insides. They start pouring out

1261
01:17:14.920 --> 01:17:17.640
of his mouth, which I don't know if you're aware

1262
01:17:17.680 --> 01:17:20.880
of this, but that was real. Tony Todd put the

1263
01:17:20.920 --> 01:17:26.319
bees in his mouth and got stung a ton.

1264
01:17:27.600 --> 01:17:31.000
Wasn't it his agent who told him, like, you need

1265
01:17:31.039 --> 01:17:33.520
to negotiate a per sting pay.

1266
01:17:33.520 --> 01:17:37.199
Well, an agent's job would be to negotiate. Okay, yeah,

1267
01:17:37.800 --> 01:17:39.680
I'm curious because I didn't see it in the Wikipedia

1268
01:17:39.760 --> 01:17:47.720
candy man Stung by bees. Tony Todd was paid one

1269
01:17:47.800 --> 01:17:51.920
thousand dollars for each of the twenty seven bee stings

1270
01:17:51.960 --> 01:17:57.600
he got during a scene. So the article then says,

1271
01:17:57.640 --> 01:18:00.479
I was recently stung twenty four times and got paid nothing.

1272
01:18:01.760 --> 01:18:04.279
So he was stung twenty seven times, so he got

1273
01:18:04.279 --> 01:18:07.760
twenty thousand dollars and he was wearing a dental dam

1274
01:18:07.840 --> 01:18:09.920
to prevent the bees from going down his throat.

1275
01:18:10.399 --> 01:18:12.119
That's probably good.

1276
01:18:12.640 --> 01:18:16.239
Now. I have to say that is an incredible bit

1277
01:18:16.239 --> 01:18:18.920
of dedication. The bees coming out of his mouth for real,

1278
01:18:19.359 --> 01:18:23.680
very startling. I've known a lot of weird people over

1279
01:18:23.680 --> 01:18:26.800
the years, and I've known people who have done bee beards.

1280
01:18:27.399 --> 01:18:28.439
Oh yeah, yeah, I.

1281
01:18:28.399 --> 01:18:30.359
Am not one of them because I am allergic to bees,

1282
01:18:30.680 --> 01:18:33.119
very allergic. But that's the thing to keep in mind too,

1283
01:18:33.159 --> 01:18:34.840
is people who do b beards and stuff, they have

1284
01:18:34.960 --> 01:18:38.920
zero allergy. That's the whole point. Yeah, because when when

1285
01:18:38.960 --> 01:18:40.359
I asked them, like, how do you not get stung?

1286
01:18:40.359 --> 01:18:42.199
The oh, you get, you get stung. That's kind of

1287
01:18:42.239 --> 01:18:43.720
the point is you get, but you only get stung

1288
01:18:43.840 --> 01:18:46.319
like ten, fifteen, twenty times. You don't get stunge that bad.

1289
01:18:46.760 --> 01:18:48.119
You just go home and go ah. And then he

1290
01:18:48.159 --> 01:18:50.039
takes them might be broken and you go to bed, yeah,

1291
01:18:50.079 --> 01:18:51.760
you know, And I'm like, oh, that's cool. I would

1292
01:18:51.760 --> 01:18:56.159
not live so but yeah, so he has bees, you know,

1293
01:18:56.239 --> 01:19:01.319
in his mouth. It's a very effective sequence, very memorable.

1294
01:19:01.479 --> 01:19:04.039
Probably one of the most iconic moments of the whole

1295
01:19:04.079 --> 01:19:07.720
film is the rib cage and the bees in his mouth. Yeah, yeah,

1296
01:19:07.760 --> 01:19:12.159
and yeah, it's just a nasty one. So then he

1297
01:19:14.439 --> 01:19:17.159
kisses her with the bees and the beast. But then

1298
01:19:17.199 --> 01:19:20.880
he vanishes and takes Anthony with him, and this is

1299
01:19:21.680 --> 01:19:24.199
we're pretty much at the end of the film. Now. Yeah,

1300
01:19:24.239 --> 01:19:27.479
he disappears with the baby, which enrages her because like

1301
01:19:27.560 --> 01:19:31.680
they had a deal. But then as she blacks out again,

1302
01:19:32.000 --> 01:19:34.680
she forgetting she blocks out so much. But she awakens

1303
01:19:34.720 --> 01:19:37.439
to discover a mural of the candy Man with his

1304
01:19:37.560 --> 01:19:42.000
lover on the wall, and the lover bears a striking

1305
01:19:42.039 --> 01:19:46.079
resemblance to Helen. But this is another point I have

1306
01:19:46.159 --> 01:19:48.000
to make toward the idea that maybe this is all

1307
01:19:48.039 --> 01:19:51.640
in her head, that Muraal could have been there before.

1308
01:19:51.680 --> 01:19:54.600
We don't know, she'd not been in that specific room

1309
01:19:54.640 --> 01:19:57.439
looking in that direction, and it doesn't look that much

1310
01:19:57.560 --> 01:19:57.880
like her.

1311
01:19:58.359 --> 01:20:01.079
Yeah, it's just kind of a generic Yeah.

1312
01:20:01.279 --> 01:20:04.920
So I'm just saying like she could just see what

1313
01:20:05.119 --> 01:20:06.920
she wants to see, Yeah, which is kind of what

1314
01:20:06.960 --> 01:20:09.319
I feel like this whole. If we make that argument

1315
01:20:09.359 --> 01:20:11.840
that it's all in her head, that's kind of the

1316
01:20:11.840 --> 01:20:13.960
point is you just see what you want in folklore,

1317
01:20:13.960 --> 01:20:15.840
and you see what you want in these old stories,

1318
01:20:15.840 --> 01:20:18.279
and you see what you want in these old characters. Yeah.

1319
01:20:18.279 --> 01:20:20.359
But again, like I want to make it clear, the

1320
01:20:20.399 --> 01:20:23.640
reason I'm litigating it so hard is not because I

1321
01:20:23.640 --> 01:20:26.720
think it is entirely true. But because it's a new

1322
01:20:26.800 --> 01:20:30.239
concept that I've never I'd never thought of or heard

1323
01:20:30.279 --> 01:20:34.399
about from Candy Man that I'm working through thinking about

1324
01:20:34.399 --> 01:20:36.880
a ton, So I hope it's fun and not just

1325
01:20:37.079 --> 01:20:39.680
people going God, he's really selling the idea. It's all

1326
01:20:39.680 --> 01:20:43.840
in her head. That's not my point, but I will

1327
01:20:43.880 --> 01:20:45.720
say that once I started thinking that way, a lot

1328
01:20:45.760 --> 01:20:51.880
of things made a lot of sense. So he says that, remember,

1329
01:20:51.880 --> 01:20:54.239
he'll release Anthony if Helen helps him strike fear into

1330
01:20:54.239 --> 01:20:57.520
Cabrini Green's residence, you know, keep his is whatever, in

1331
01:20:57.600 --> 01:21:01.600
order to feed his legend. Candy Man, he goes back

1332
01:21:01.640 --> 01:21:05.960
on his agreement and gets Helen to go into the

1333
01:21:06.039 --> 01:21:08.159
pire where he has Anthony, you know, to save him.

1334
01:21:08.680 --> 01:21:10.560
And this is a really important part too. So when

1335
01:21:10.560 --> 01:21:15.239
Helen was in his layer, she sees a little something

1336
01:21:15.319 --> 01:21:20.000
that could be useful, a little something sharp and curved

1337
01:21:20.039 --> 01:21:23.760
and pointy. And we'll tell you what that is right

1338
01:21:23.800 --> 01:21:26.279
after this. How's that for a hook?

1339
01:21:27.000 --> 01:21:36.760
Ah?

1340
01:21:36.840 --> 01:21:39.279
So Helen grabs a hook because there's like a little

1341
01:21:39.279 --> 01:21:41.319
collection of hooks, because what else would there be in

1342
01:21:41.359 --> 01:21:45.079
candy Dan's layer, And she heads to the pire. This

1343
01:21:45.239 --> 01:21:48.319
giant pile of things, which was pointed out early on

1344
01:21:49.079 --> 01:21:51.439
when she's walking through Cabrini Green, there's just this giant

1345
01:21:51.479 --> 01:21:56.560
pile of like old furniture, shipping pilots and stuff. And

1346
01:21:56.560 --> 01:21:58.640
apparently that's what they do. They have a pire every

1347
01:21:58.680 --> 01:22:00.239
so often, like you.

1348
01:22:00.159 --> 01:22:02.079
Know, for they burn You're junk.

1349
01:22:02.800 --> 01:22:08.319
I mean, yeah, I suppose so. So she crawls into

1350
01:22:09.039 --> 01:22:11.800
the pire, which is not let yet obviously, because she

1351
01:22:11.800 --> 01:22:14.439
hears the baby crying and knows that Candy Man has him.

1352
01:22:15.199 --> 01:22:19.039
And that is when I cannot. I'm struggling with his name.

1353
01:22:19.600 --> 01:22:23.960
The little boy, Jake, thank you. Uh. Jake sees what's

1354
01:22:24.000 --> 01:22:26.479
going on, but he doesn't see Helen. All he sees

1355
01:22:26.800 --> 01:22:29.439
is as she's disappearing into the pire. She sees he

1356
01:22:29.520 --> 01:22:32.680
sees the hook that she had taken to bring with her,

1357
01:22:32.920 --> 01:22:35.079
and when he sees the hook disappearing into the pire,

1358
01:22:35.159 --> 01:22:36.319
he whispers.

1359
01:22:36.239 --> 01:22:37.720
Candy Man.

1360
01:22:38.199 --> 01:22:42.119
Because Jake is a little boy, he really does believe

1361
01:22:42.239 --> 01:22:45.479
in Candy Man. He is a child. Yeah, they believe

1362
01:22:45.479 --> 01:22:50.119
in Boogeyman and stuff, you know. So he goes and

1363
01:22:50.159 --> 01:22:54.000
gets everybody basically trying to encourage the to push the

1364
01:22:54.039 --> 01:22:56.560
idea like burn the pire. Candy Man's in there kind

1365
01:22:56.600 --> 01:22:58.640
of thing, and Candy Man is an affront to this,

1366
01:22:58.800 --> 01:23:03.640
these people and one or another. So candy Man, now

1367
01:23:03.680 --> 01:23:07.000
inside of the Pire, has decided he's not going to

1368
01:23:07.079 --> 01:23:09.920
go along with it. He wants him, he wants Anthony

1369
01:23:09.960 --> 01:23:12.720
to die. He wants all of both of them to

1370
01:23:12.720 --> 01:23:17.640
be immolated to help feed his legend. Yes, Helen don't

1371
01:23:17.760 --> 01:23:20.119
like that. At this point, the Pire is being set

1372
01:23:20.159 --> 01:23:24.439
on fire. She grabs a piece of flaming wood and

1373
01:23:25.079 --> 01:23:30.239
just stabs him in his weird bee chest and the

1374
01:23:30.239 --> 01:23:33.800
flames apparently hurt him quite a bit. Yeah, at least

1375
01:23:33.960 --> 01:23:38.119
when you used that way. But here's another thing. Why

1376
01:23:38.479 --> 01:23:41.239
why would he put himself in the pire if fire

1377
01:23:41.319 --> 01:23:47.359
is like the one thing that'll hurt him, unless you

1378
01:23:47.399 --> 01:23:49.279
know the reason it actually hurt him is because she

1379
01:23:49.359 --> 01:23:51.039
wanted it to hurt him, because.

1380
01:23:51.039 --> 01:23:52.479
He believed it would.

1381
01:23:52.880 --> 01:23:56.600
And this is where we get to the really fascinating conclusion.

1382
01:23:57.479 --> 01:24:00.560
So as Candy Man falls back and basically he dies,

1383
01:24:01.239 --> 01:24:04.479
we see all these people standing around the Pire, including

1384
01:24:04.479 --> 01:24:08.119
Anne Marie with Jake. Jake has said, and I don't

1385
01:24:08.159 --> 01:24:10.399
know if it was true, by the way, but Jake

1386
01:24:10.479 --> 01:24:12.960
said that he's Anne Marie's nephew.

1387
01:24:14.000 --> 01:24:15.000
Yeah, something like that.

1388
01:24:15.359 --> 01:24:19.239
But when he sees Candy Man, he's like sleeping in

1389
01:24:19.359 --> 01:24:22.840
like he looked. I think he's homeless. I think he's

1390
01:24:22.960 --> 01:24:25.920
just a homeless kid. He doesn't have anybody, or his

1391
01:24:26.000 --> 01:24:29.640
parents are a nightmare or something, because when he says

1392
01:24:29.640 --> 01:24:32.279
I'm Anne Marie's nephew or she's my aunt, like he's

1393
01:24:32.319 --> 01:24:34.359
sitting in front of her place, she's not there. There's

1394
01:24:34.359 --> 01:24:37.840
no confirmation. He just kind of says that. So I

1395
01:24:37.840 --> 01:24:40.039
don't know if he's like literally related to her or

1396
01:24:40.079 --> 01:24:42.560
if she just kind of looks out for him or yeh.

1397
01:24:42.760 --> 01:24:44.640
But I got the vibe when he noticed the hook

1398
01:24:44.680 --> 01:24:46.880
that he was just like that his room was that

1399
01:24:47.319 --> 01:24:50.600
cubby hole because he was homeless. That was something I

1400
01:24:50.640 --> 01:24:52.199
picked up on this last viewing.

1401
01:24:52.760 --> 01:24:57.600
No, because he's always wandering around in the halls or

1402
01:24:57.680 --> 01:25:02.199
outside the building. Yeah, he's never shown with an adult,

1403
01:25:02.479 --> 01:25:03.119
and that could.

1404
01:25:03.000 --> 01:25:05.039
Be because he had he has a horrible home life too,

1405
01:25:05.079 --> 01:25:07.079
because that's what a lot of those kids, why they

1406
01:25:07.159 --> 01:25:10.479
end up just kind of wandering mm hmm. So yeah,

1407
01:25:10.479 --> 01:25:12.279
but yeah, I just thought that was really strange. He's

1408
01:25:12.279 --> 01:25:14.119
not in his home, he's not in a bedroom. He's

1409
01:25:14.159 --> 01:25:15.920
just in this little like cubby.

1410
01:25:16.159 --> 01:25:16.800
Yeah.

1411
01:25:17.159 --> 01:25:21.239
So as the flames are growing and we see Anne Marie,

1412
01:25:21.279 --> 01:25:25.359
who is just she looks insane. You know, her hair

1413
01:25:25.399 --> 01:25:30.319
is completely crazy. Well, she's wrecked with Yeah, she's wrecked

1414
01:25:30.359 --> 01:25:32.640
with grief. And she's watching as the fire is burning.

1415
01:25:33.479 --> 01:25:36.600
And the look on her face, that actress really sells

1416
01:25:36.600 --> 01:25:40.680
it because it made me like uncomfortable, how incredibly like

1417
01:25:41.000 --> 01:25:45.640
just destroyed. She looked as all this is happening. Helen

1418
01:25:45.760 --> 01:25:48.920
starts grabs the baby and starts pushing her way through

1419
01:25:48.960 --> 01:25:52.880
the flames, her hair catching on fire, and as she

1420
01:25:52.960 --> 01:25:54.640
pushes out of the pire, this is one of the

1421
01:25:54.640 --> 01:25:56.840
most fascinating parts of the movie and there's no candy

1422
01:25:56.880 --> 01:25:59.359
man in it at all. She gets out of there

1423
01:25:59.439 --> 01:26:02.079
holding the baby. People run to her aid and put

1424
01:26:02.079 --> 01:26:04.439
her out, but she's already burned very badly, and her

1425
01:26:04.439 --> 01:26:08.680
hair was on fire, which is a fascinating element because

1426
01:26:08.720 --> 01:26:11.640
that is a very old folklore concept, the idea that

1427
01:26:11.680 --> 01:26:16.119
hair is literally flames. They put her out and she

1428
01:26:16.279 --> 01:26:18.479
just holds the baby out and Anne Marie comes and

1429
01:26:18.520 --> 01:26:22.119
grabs the kid, and you know, has this moment as

1430
01:26:22.159 --> 01:26:25.520
this woman is dying and I'm not trying to make

1431
01:26:25.560 --> 01:26:28.960
it that way, but like such a white savior moment though,

1432
01:26:29.520 --> 01:26:32.399
like the she finally did the things she wanted to do,

1433
01:26:32.479 --> 01:26:36.279
which was, yeah, in some way or another, save these

1434
01:26:36.319 --> 01:26:41.239
people from themselves. I meant to mention earlier, but I

1435
01:26:41.239 --> 01:26:44.520
got sidetracked. When they're first talking about going to Cabrini Green,

1436
01:26:44.720 --> 01:26:46.960
it felt like one of those older movies about like

1437
01:26:47.000 --> 01:26:49.479
going to the Amazon. Oh yeah, you know. It just

1438
01:26:49.520 --> 01:26:52.000
felt like they were talking about going to another world

1439
01:26:52.039 --> 01:26:54.239
and how dangerous it could be, and like, oh, but

1440
01:26:54.359 --> 01:26:57.560
what information we could gain stuff, which I just think

1441
01:26:57.600 --> 01:27:00.399
is worth mentioning too, Like such a strange combination.

1442
01:27:00.279 --> 01:27:02.079
One of those Mondo movies. He likes.

1443
01:27:02.359 --> 01:27:06.720
I love me some Mondo movies. But so, now she's died,

1444
01:27:07.359 --> 01:27:12.680
and as as she's died, we reveal a new mural

1445
01:27:13.359 --> 01:27:16.760
on the wall, and it's of her with the flaming

1446
01:27:16.840 --> 01:27:21.239
hair and the baby being saved. Yeah, which suggests that

1447
01:27:21.279 --> 01:27:23.479
she has in some way become a legend in and

1448
01:27:23.520 --> 01:27:28.399
of herself, but as a martyr rather than a tragic

1449
01:27:28.800 --> 01:27:33.000
death I guess, or wrong, you know, wrong being righted

1450
01:27:33.119 --> 01:27:38.479
or something. She's she's a tragic death. And we then

1451
01:27:38.560 --> 01:27:43.279
go to her funeral and the funeral is you know,

1452
01:27:43.399 --> 01:27:46.560
all of her academics and her ex husband, well I

1453
01:27:46.560 --> 01:27:49.680
guess I mean X now because she's dead, they're all

1454
01:27:49.720 --> 01:27:53.960
you know, they're paying their respects. But then a very

1455
01:27:54.159 --> 01:27:59.680
like picturesque but extremely unexpected thing happens, which we'll talk

1456
01:27:59.680 --> 01:28:13.760
about right after this. So as the funeral appeared to

1457
01:28:13.800 --> 01:28:17.359
be wrapping up, all of the people of Cabrini Green

1458
01:28:17.800 --> 01:28:22.800
come in in like a gigantic procession. Yeah, I beautiful,

1459
01:28:22.840 --> 01:28:28.000
it's incredible, And and there's basically it's like basically all

1460
01:28:28.000 --> 01:28:30.840
white people at the initial funeral and then this procession

1461
01:28:31.399 --> 01:28:34.680
of people that clearly don't fit in there, you know,

1462
01:28:34.840 --> 01:28:37.239
like I mean, but I think that's juxtaposition is important

1463
01:28:37.840 --> 01:28:41.039
because it makes a point that like these folks left

1464
01:28:41.159 --> 01:28:45.239
there where they're air quotes supposed to be to pay

1465
01:28:45.319 --> 01:28:48.199
their respects to somebody who made a difference in their community,

1466
01:28:49.239 --> 01:28:51.960
you know. And it's led of course by Anne Marie

1467
01:28:51.960 --> 01:28:55.560
holding Anthony, and it's and it's awesome, and it's also

1468
01:28:56.600 --> 01:29:00.439
you see her walking with Jake and it's awesome. They

1469
01:29:00.479 --> 01:29:02.640
all just walk in this giant line to one by

1470
01:29:02.640 --> 01:29:08.640
one pay their respects to Helen who saved Anthony and possibly,

1471
01:29:08.760 --> 01:29:13.119
as they understand it, killed candy Actually, no, it's not. Possibly,

1472
01:29:13.279 --> 01:29:16.079
she killed candy Man, the candy man they were actually

1473
01:29:16.159 --> 01:29:16.680
afraid of.

1474
01:29:16.880 --> 01:29:18.800
She got rid of him, Yeah, because she got rid

1475
01:29:18.840 --> 01:29:20.119
of the gang leader.

1476
01:29:20.119 --> 01:29:24.319
And by saving Anthony, that to them cleared her of

1477
01:29:24.359 --> 01:29:27.439
the wrongdoing of killing the baby. Yes, so to them,

1478
01:29:27.640 --> 01:29:30.720
all she did was help. Yeah, and gave her life

1479
01:29:30.880 --> 01:29:31.880
to save Anthony.

1480
01:29:32.479 --> 01:29:37.880
Is no, No, that totally makes sense. And I hadn't

1481
01:29:38.680 --> 01:29:41.119
I you know, it's pretty easy to pick up on

1482
01:29:41.640 --> 01:29:45.359
them paying their respects because she saved Anthony, but I

1483
01:29:45.479 --> 01:29:48.880
hadn't quite drawn the connection of that. She really did

1484
01:29:48.920 --> 01:29:54.960
get rid of the real candy Man, which is pretty

1485
01:29:55.119 --> 01:29:58.000
pretty important for all of them, because again, he was

1486
01:29:58.199 --> 01:30:01.720
responsible for some very real murders and people.

1487
01:30:01.560 --> 01:30:05.079
Were afraid of him. Yeah, clearly, because and this falls

1488
01:30:05.079 --> 01:30:09.800
into my point that before Helen's around, candy Man technically

1489
01:30:09.880 --> 01:30:12.520
kills nobody that we're aware of. Yeah, like the little

1490
01:30:12.560 --> 01:30:14.920
mentally challenged boy in the past. We have no idea

1491
01:30:14.920 --> 01:30:17.399
what happened there, and anything could have happened. It could

1492
01:30:17.439 --> 01:30:19.680
have just not even happened. It was a little story

1493
01:30:19.760 --> 01:30:23.159
Jake had heard from like the whispers of other latchkey kids,

1494
01:30:24.520 --> 01:30:28.319
So you know, there's that. Then there's the element of

1495
01:30:28.640 --> 01:30:30.399
the story with the guy and the girl who aren't

1496
01:30:30.439 --> 01:30:33.159
even in Chicago. They're not even in Cabrini Green, They're

1497
01:30:33.199 --> 01:30:36.920
nowhere near where this story is taking place. They're they're

1498
01:30:37.000 --> 01:30:38.319
just out there in the world.

1499
01:30:38.600 --> 01:30:39.279
Yeah.

1500
01:30:39.720 --> 01:30:42.880
So yeah, Like because at first I was thinking, like,

1501
01:30:42.920 --> 01:30:44.880
you know, she could have you know, killed Candy Man,

1502
01:30:44.920 --> 01:30:46.960
but no, by their perspective, she got rid of Candy

1503
01:30:47.000 --> 01:30:51.079
Man entirely. She freed them. And I can't even imagine

1504
01:30:51.439 --> 01:30:53.119
what would have been going through Amory's head when she

1505
01:30:53.159 --> 01:30:58.439
thought that, or when potentially Helen did kill her dog

1506
01:30:59.039 --> 01:31:01.520
and her baby had disappeared. I mean, who knows what's

1507
01:31:01.560 --> 01:31:05.239
going on there? Yeah, yeah, I really don't know. So yeah,

1508
01:31:05.439 --> 01:31:08.800
it's it's really an incredible sequence, Like what were you

1509
01:31:08.880 --> 01:31:11.800
thinking when you first watched it? And all of a

1510
01:31:11.800 --> 01:31:13.960
sudden they just look over and then there's this, because

1511
01:31:14.000 --> 01:31:16.760
I want to overstate, I need to state it properly.

1512
01:31:17.159 --> 01:31:20.640
The line is like two hundred feet long. It's an

1513
01:31:20.680 --> 01:31:25.039
incredibly long procession of people two by two walking up

1514
01:31:25.079 --> 01:31:27.600
in their black clothes to pay their respects. It's a

1515
01:31:27.640 --> 01:31:29.000
really beautiful shot.

1516
01:31:29.439 --> 01:31:32.399
It really is. When the first time I watched it,

1517
01:31:32.479 --> 01:31:38.239
I I was incredibly moved, not just by you know,

1518
01:31:38.319 --> 01:31:42.640
not just by like how many people were there, but

1519
01:31:43.279 --> 01:31:46.800
like you said, how out of place they were and

1520
01:31:47.199 --> 01:31:50.560
how far they would have had to come just to

1521
01:31:50.800 --> 01:31:54.680
pay their respects. Yes, you know, because that's that's the

1522
01:31:54.720 --> 01:31:57.920
whole other side of town. You know, like like they said,

1523
01:31:57.960 --> 01:32:01.800
you got to take the L train, Like, so here's

1524
01:32:01.840 --> 01:32:06.239
a here's a community of people that were so touched

1525
01:32:06.800 --> 01:32:12.319
by her self sacrifice that they were willing to make

1526
01:32:12.399 --> 01:32:17.600
that tremendous journey all together to say goodbye. That's pretty

1527
01:32:17.840 --> 01:32:21.680
that's pretty powerful, and it it goes to show like

1528
01:32:22.279 --> 01:32:25.439
it was. It was kind of to me. It was

1529
01:32:25.520 --> 01:32:33.279
kind of showing those downtrodden communities how close knit they

1530
01:32:33.319 --> 01:32:37.159
have to be in order to in order to survive.

1531
01:32:39.159 --> 01:32:42.600
You know, when all you have to depend on is

1532
01:32:42.640 --> 01:32:46.000
each other, you really have to depend on each other.

1533
01:32:46.439 --> 01:32:49.479
And they were kind of demonstrating that that in the

1534
01:32:49.520 --> 01:32:52.800
way that Helen had sacrificed herself, they were willing to

1535
01:32:52.800 --> 01:32:54.239
put themselves out there too.

1536
01:32:54.960 --> 01:32:55.159
See.

1537
01:32:55.199 --> 01:32:58.079
I think that was I think that was pretty pretty good.

1538
01:33:00.079 --> 01:33:07.560
And yeah, and it was the the heartfelt gratitude that

1539
01:33:08.159 --> 01:33:12.680
the people from Cabrini Green were expressing was just so

1540
01:33:12.840 --> 01:33:18.439
totally different from kind of this sterile sort of grief

1541
01:33:18.880 --> 01:33:22.159
that her husband and all the other academics were displaying,

1542
01:33:22.640 --> 01:33:24.960
like they were just kind of giving like accolades of

1543
01:33:25.039 --> 01:33:30.960
like she was just some some person, you know, it's

1544
01:33:31.159 --> 01:33:36.199
too bad, brilliant, yeah, yeah, but to the people of

1545
01:33:36.239 --> 01:33:39.680
Cabrini Green, like she was an actual hero. And there's

1546
01:33:39.720 --> 01:33:40.720
a big difference there.

1547
01:33:41.479 --> 01:33:45.399
Absolutely. And now we go to the last scene of

1548
01:33:45.479 --> 01:33:48.800
the film, which helps tie the movie up in a

1549
01:33:48.920 --> 01:33:52.720
nice horror movie bow, but also could potentially say a

1550
01:33:52.720 --> 01:33:57.920
lot about maybe my new burgeoning theory. As we are

1551
01:33:58.000 --> 01:34:01.760
now back in the apartment that was originally Helen's and

1552
01:34:01.840 --> 01:34:05.239
her husband's, you know, and he's there with Stacy. He's

1553
01:34:05.840 --> 01:34:09.279
sitting on the toilet like hiding from his girlfriend, and

1554
01:34:09.319 --> 01:34:13.880
he is so like monstrously grief stricken and guilt ridden.

1555
01:34:13.960 --> 01:34:17.560
He's he's miserable, and she's like talking to him through

1556
01:34:17.560 --> 01:34:18.960
the do are you okay? So like yeah, I'm fine.

1557
01:34:19.000 --> 01:34:21.399
He just like wants to be alone, and she's like

1558
01:34:21.439 --> 01:34:24.960
making dinner and getting a big knife out and he

1559
01:34:25.079 --> 01:34:29.399
is just like distraught, trying to like control his misery

1560
01:34:30.159 --> 01:34:33.319
and finally he looks in the mirror and he says

1561
01:34:33.399 --> 01:34:37.640
Helen's name four times, then turns the light off and

1562
01:34:37.680 --> 01:34:40.920
says her name a fifth time, and she appears at

1563
01:34:40.960 --> 01:34:43.279
the mirror and then behind him, which, by the way,

1564
01:34:43.359 --> 01:34:45.520
is always how those mirror legends work, because they appear

1565
01:34:45.520 --> 01:34:48.239
in the mirror first and then they're behind you. Yeah,

1566
01:34:48.279 --> 01:34:51.479
And she just cuts him from groin to gullet with

1567
01:34:51.560 --> 01:34:56.800
a hook. She's holding candy Man's hook. He gets murdered,

1568
01:34:57.399 --> 01:35:01.880
and then Stacy discovers his bloody body in the bathtub,

1569
01:35:02.000 --> 01:35:04.920
and she's got the knife. We see that mural of

1570
01:35:04.960 --> 01:35:08.359
the woman dressed in white with her hair ablaze in

1571
01:35:08.479 --> 01:35:14.520
Candyman's layer. The music swells, and all I can think

1572
01:35:14.680 --> 01:35:19.119
as the film ends is maybe she replaced candy Man.

1573
01:35:19.680 --> 01:35:24.520
Maybe that thing that because one of the ideas, so

1574
01:35:24.560 --> 01:35:26.560
one of the ideas I'm playing with the idea of

1575
01:35:26.600 --> 01:35:30.880
candy Man, is that what if candy Man is kind

1576
01:35:30.880 --> 01:35:34.039
of like what Freddy Krueger was like in a New Nightmare,

1577
01:35:34.640 --> 01:35:38.279
there is no Freddy Krueger. There's an ancient in the

1578
01:35:38.279 --> 01:35:41.319
case of Nightmare elm Street, a New Nightmare, there's an

1579
01:35:41.359 --> 01:35:45.439
ancient evil that just simply exists, and it takes the

1580
01:35:45.479 --> 01:35:47.479
forms of things people are afraid of.

1581
01:35:48.079 --> 01:35:49.600
Yeah, but yeah in Knight.

1582
01:35:49.439 --> 01:35:52.479
Bmroren elm Street in The New Nightmare, the whole concept

1583
01:35:52.560 --> 01:35:56.880
is that that gets captured in books and movies and

1584
01:35:57.199 --> 01:35:59.720
things like that, and that the reason he's killing people

1585
01:35:59.720 --> 01:36:01.520
for real is because they are no more Freddy movies

1586
01:36:01.600 --> 01:36:05.640
and there's no outlet for that evil. Well what if

1587
01:36:05.640 --> 01:36:08.279
it was kind of like that, But it's about the folklore,

1588
01:36:08.399 --> 01:36:12.760
the power of folklore, so there really is no candy Man.

1589
01:36:12.880 --> 01:36:16.319
Candy Man is just this force of the fear and

1590
01:36:16.359 --> 01:36:19.760
the whispers and the legend and you know, the the

1591
01:36:20.520 --> 01:36:22.720
hearing something that goes bumping the night and feeling this

1592
01:36:23.159 --> 01:36:25.840
eerie sense that you just you know what it was

1593
01:36:26.760 --> 01:36:28.880
because it was the Boogeyman, it was Candid, it was

1594
01:36:28.920 --> 01:36:32.279
Bobby Yaga, it was all these things, because you know

1595
01:36:32.279 --> 01:36:35.680
Ombre del Saco Lanna, there are a million of them.

1596
01:36:36.479 --> 01:36:41.840
So my thought is that in reality, all the folklore

1597
01:36:41.920 --> 01:36:47.159
wants is to exist. Yes, the identity doesn't matter at all.

1598
01:36:47.760 --> 01:36:50.439
And there's another thing that I want to mention that

1599
01:36:50.479 --> 01:36:54.039
I skipped over when he toward the end that I

1600
01:36:54.079 --> 01:36:57.960
think is very weird and interesting to interpret, and we'll

1601
01:36:57.960 --> 01:37:14.000
get to that right after this. So at the end,

1602
01:37:14.279 --> 01:37:19.399
right before the pyre, he starts saying, it was always you, Helen,

1603
01:37:20.279 --> 01:37:24.920
it was always you. How do you take that, because

1604
01:37:24.920 --> 01:37:26.560
that's what he says. He says, it was always you.

1605
01:37:27.960 --> 01:37:31.600
Do it was always you. What do you feel like

1606
01:37:31.640 --> 01:37:32.359
he meant by that?

1607
01:37:33.520 --> 01:37:36.479
I don't know, because for such a simple statement, there's

1608
01:37:36.520 --> 01:37:40.399
so many ways that you could take it. If we

1609
01:37:40.399 --> 01:37:43.760
were to run with your theory that Helen's just totally

1610
01:37:43.760 --> 01:37:46.760
insane and Candy Man's always, you know, all in her

1611
01:37:46.840 --> 01:37:47.960
head that.

1612
01:37:48.239 --> 01:37:53.119
Or possessed by this folkloric concept that I literally just

1613
01:37:53.199 --> 01:37:53.600
made up.

1614
01:37:55.359 --> 01:37:57.840
But yeah, in that case, it could mean that it's

1615
01:37:57.880 --> 01:38:04.119
always her because it's just been inside her. If we

1616
01:38:04.119 --> 01:38:09.640
were to take Candy Man as being like an actual

1617
01:38:09.800 --> 01:38:15.399
real entity, then that could mean that, you know, maybe

1618
01:38:15.439 --> 01:38:18.119
the spirit of the woman that he fell in love

1619
01:38:18.159 --> 01:38:20.880
with in the eighteen hundreds has come back as Helen,

1620
01:38:21.399 --> 01:38:22.840
or they're in some way connected.

1621
01:38:23.279 --> 01:38:25.520
Yeah. I feel like that's what most people go with

1622
01:38:25.600 --> 01:38:28.880
because it's a little bit more obvious. I'm not. That

1623
01:38:29.000 --> 01:38:31.479
doesn't mean it's bad, yeah, yeah, because it's more in

1624
01:38:31.520 --> 01:38:34.680
a romantic context, which there is a ton of romantic

1625
01:38:35.039 --> 01:38:38.640
context and subtext to Helen and Candy Man. So I

1626
01:38:38.680 --> 01:38:40.359
don't I don't want to make it sound like just

1627
01:38:40.399 --> 01:38:42.159
because it's like, well, that would be the easiest interpretation.

1628
01:38:42.199 --> 01:38:43.319
That doesn't mean it's wrong.

1629
01:38:43.439 --> 01:38:45.920
No, it just makes yeah, one of many.

1630
01:38:46.079 --> 01:38:48.600
So that's and I think that's what they were. If

1631
01:38:48.640 --> 01:38:51.640
there is meant to be multiple layers to this, then

1632
01:38:51.680 --> 01:38:54.000
they definitely wanted your first thought to be that he's

1633
01:38:54.000 --> 01:38:57.920
referring to them romantically, Yes, because it's very clear that

1634
01:38:57.920 --> 01:39:01.479
that there's a romantic pull of some sort.

1635
01:39:01.680 --> 01:39:04.039
So yeah, yeah.

1636
01:39:04.680 --> 01:39:06.960
That's something. Also, Yeah, I just think about it's always you, Helen.

1637
01:39:07.000 --> 01:39:10.239
I mean, could it literally be literal as in, it

1638
01:39:10.279 --> 01:39:12.119
was always you doing these things?

1639
01:39:12.199 --> 01:39:14.479
You were you were the one killing yeah.

1640
01:39:14.600 --> 01:39:18.399
Yeah, or that you know, this whole concept of the

1641
01:39:18.439 --> 01:39:23.760
folklore staying alive was always with you, Helen. Because I

1642
01:39:23.800 --> 01:39:27.600
do wonder if she had if she hadn't discovered the

1643
01:39:27.680 --> 01:39:31.800
Candy Man murderer guy and had just written her paper,

1644
01:39:32.079 --> 01:39:34.359
would Candy Man have ever shown himself to her, because

1645
01:39:34.399 --> 01:39:38.880
she would have helped to establish the legend lore. Yeah,

1646
01:39:38.920 --> 01:39:42.600
but instead she was going to potentially demystify the legend

1647
01:39:43.159 --> 01:39:46.159
and Candy Man can't have that. I don't know. I

1648
01:39:46.199 --> 01:39:50.159
don't know, or is there you know, or is it predetermined?

1649
01:39:50.239 --> 01:39:53.319
Is it predestination or something that I don't know. I mean,

1650
01:39:53.319 --> 01:39:56.560
that's where we're digging really to try and find something.

1651
01:39:57.199 --> 01:40:00.079
But that's kind of my thought. Yeah, yeah, is that

1652
01:40:00.800 --> 01:40:04.600
maybe there is some kind of of a folklore being

1653
01:40:05.399 --> 01:40:07.800
and all it wants to do is keep existing.

1654
01:40:09.079 --> 01:40:15.279
I tend to go toward that theory just because that

1655
01:40:15.439 --> 01:40:20.159
seems to be especially when she initially meets Candy Man,

1656
01:40:20.840 --> 01:40:24.840
that seems to be his whole m o. His whole

1657
01:40:26.279 --> 01:40:31.680
goal is just he wants to use her to strike

1658
01:40:31.840 --> 01:40:35.000
fear back into the hearts of the residents of Cabrini

1659
01:40:35.119 --> 01:40:40.000
Green so that he can continue existing through their subconscious.

1660
01:40:39.279 --> 01:40:42.000
Well, and that's only after she ends the tyranny of

1661
01:40:42.039 --> 01:40:44.720
the guy who was pretending to be him, Right, So,

1662
01:40:44.920 --> 01:40:47.600
I mean, I'm just saying so like he's he's a

1663
01:40:48.399 --> 01:40:50.600
there's a catalyst to why he's doing it too. It's

1664
01:40:50.680 --> 01:40:52.680
not like he just picked her because she's like chilling

1665
01:40:52.840 --> 01:40:53.399
doing stuff.

1666
01:40:53.880 --> 01:40:56.199
No, he picked her because she's the one who ended

1667
01:40:56.199 --> 01:40:59.359
the legacy initially, Yeah, ended the fear exactly.

1668
01:40:59.520 --> 01:41:03.359
Yeah, Candy Man likes the guy going around killing you know,

1669
01:41:03.560 --> 01:41:05.439
people with the hook, because it kept it kept the

1670
01:41:05.479 --> 01:41:06.680
idea of Candy Man alive.

1671
01:41:06.800 --> 01:41:11.479
Yeah, and and again, like even if, even if the

1672
01:41:11.560 --> 01:41:15.319
legend of Candy Man like had been under the surface

1673
01:41:15.479 --> 01:41:19.560
at Cabrini Green, it is very clearly something that is

1674
01:41:19.920 --> 01:41:23.720
woven deep into the tapestry of their subconscious because again

1675
01:41:23.760 --> 01:41:27.640
there's a lot of the a lot of the graffiti

1676
01:41:27.920 --> 01:41:31.760
and stuff that we see all across Cabrini Green, it

1677
01:41:32.039 --> 01:41:36.560
references candy Man, it references sweets, It references you know, sweets.

1678
01:41:36.159 --> 01:41:41.159
For the sweet So even which is a romantic gesture statement,

1679
01:41:41.199 --> 01:41:41.720
but it is.

1680
01:41:41.960 --> 01:41:47.439
Yeah, there and and again when they were first investigating,

1681
01:41:47.680 --> 01:41:51.319
when Helen and Bernadette were first investigating Cobrina Green, and

1682
01:41:51.359 --> 01:41:56.600
they she crawls through the mural of Candy Man, and

1683
01:41:56.640 --> 01:42:01.039
she finds the offerings to Candy Man. Like again, the

1684
01:42:02.000 --> 01:42:08.199
residents have kept Candy Man alive through these stories and

1685
01:42:08.279 --> 01:42:16.039
through these gestures, through the different things that they do.

1686
01:42:16.920 --> 01:42:20.159
Yeah, no, I would have to agree. And so here's

1687
01:42:20.199 --> 01:42:23.439
where I get really deep in the in the woods.

1688
01:42:23.880 --> 01:42:26.680
So when I was a boy watching this movie, and

1689
01:42:26.800 --> 01:42:28.960
I don't know, I might have even been eight or

1690
01:42:29.039 --> 01:42:32.079
nine years old when I first saw it on TV.

1691
01:42:32.199 --> 01:42:34.199
It might have been on HBO or something. I remember

1692
01:42:34.279 --> 01:42:37.439
watching it with my older sister one time, and when

1693
01:42:38.079 --> 01:42:42.199
Helen came out of the mirror at the end, my

1694
01:42:42.680 --> 01:42:47.920
childhood interpretation was that she became bloody Mary. That was

1695
01:42:47.960 --> 01:42:52.640
my childhood interpretation was she became bloody Mary. Now, obviously

1696
01:42:52.680 --> 01:42:54.119
when I watched it all, I'm like, well, she didn't,

1697
01:42:54.119 --> 01:42:56.199
I mean, because you had to say Helen, yeah, you know,

1698
01:42:56.359 --> 01:42:58.640
but she became bloody Mary. But that's where it gets

1699
01:42:58.640 --> 01:43:02.760
really interesting because I love the bloody Mary mythos because

1700
01:43:03.600 --> 01:43:06.159
no one can agree where it came from, and there

1701
01:43:06.159 --> 01:43:10.199
are so many options. Yeah, I mean, you know, there's

1702
01:43:10.239 --> 01:43:15.760
Elizabeth Bathory, which wasn't even named Mary. There there was

1703
01:43:15.840 --> 01:43:17.640
Mary Queen, I think it was Mary, Queen of Scott's

1704
01:43:17.760 --> 01:43:19.680
might have been one of them because she oh yeah yeah,

1705
01:43:19.680 --> 01:43:22.560
because she she ordered tons of death, tons of killings

1706
01:43:23.159 --> 01:43:25.680
with her armies and stuff. Also had like never been

1707
01:43:25.680 --> 01:43:29.239
in Scotland for real. That's a whole all other thing.

1708
01:43:29.800 --> 01:43:33.479
But and then Mary Worth, which is what a lot

1709
01:43:33.479 --> 01:43:36.000
of people like because Mary Worth was like a burned

1710
01:43:36.000 --> 01:43:39.800
as a witch. There's a lot of elements there. But

1711
01:43:39.840 --> 01:43:43.279
what's what's most interesting and something that made me curious

1712
01:43:43.399 --> 01:43:45.880
when I think about Candy Man as a piece of folklore,

1713
01:43:46.760 --> 01:43:50.840
is there are versions of the bloody Mary myth where

1714
01:43:51.960 --> 01:43:55.319
you summon her and she kills you or whatever. There

1715
01:43:55.319 --> 01:43:57.760
are versions where it's just saying bloody Mary, bloody Mary,

1716
01:43:57.760 --> 01:44:01.319
bloody Mary, and you you're dead meat, you know. But

1717
01:44:01.359 --> 01:44:04.319
there are also versions where the only way that anything

1718
01:44:04.359 --> 01:44:08.000
bad happens is if you antagonize Mary.

1719
01:44:08.960 --> 01:44:09.399
Okay.

1720
01:44:09.720 --> 01:44:13.399
So this is something that I mean, I know this stuff,

1721
01:44:13.439 --> 01:44:15.840
not even just from reading books, but from growing up

1722
01:44:16.359 --> 01:44:21.399
and loving these stupid sleepover stories and stuff like that.

1723
01:44:22.239 --> 01:44:25.760
So that's what makes me wonder because with Candy Man,

1724
01:44:25.880 --> 01:44:30.960
it's like he was murdered wrongfully over love, and now

1725
01:44:30.960 --> 01:44:32.880
when you say his name, he comes to mirror and

1726
01:44:32.960 --> 01:44:35.439
kills you. And they do expand in the sequels on

1727
01:44:35.520 --> 01:44:37.399
like why it's a mirror and stuff, but that's not

1728
01:44:37.439 --> 01:44:41.279
really important to this specific conversation. Mirrors have always been

1729
01:44:41.319 --> 01:44:44.720
considered like a spiritual portal. Yeah, yeah, and almost all

1730
01:44:45.119 --> 01:44:51.000
Anglo Saxon conjuring involved mirrors, yeah, tons of it. In fact,

1731
01:44:51.159 --> 01:44:53.279
that's something people have mentioned about this is that in

1732
01:44:53.319 --> 01:44:57.920
African American cultures, mirrors aren't a conjuring tool. Generally, they

1733
01:44:57.960 --> 01:45:01.319
have other things that come from their tip to Africa

1734
01:45:01.840 --> 01:45:05.000
and Catholicism. And depending on where how they got to

1735
01:45:05.039 --> 01:45:07.159
America in the first place, if they came through the

1736
01:45:07.199 --> 01:45:10.640
Caribbean verses, if they came through wherever. Okay, So that's

1737
01:45:11.119 --> 01:45:15.560
one to consider. So when you look at bloody Mary,

1738
01:45:15.640 --> 01:45:20.479
there is a there supposedly a more devious way to

1739
01:45:20.560 --> 01:45:24.800
call upon her that guarantees you a truly horrific death.

1740
01:45:25.399 --> 01:45:40.119
And I'll tell you about it right after this. So

1741
01:45:40.159 --> 01:45:44.479
when it comes to Bloody Mary number one, the name

1742
01:45:44.560 --> 01:45:50.199
bloody Mary is pejorative, so you are to an extent

1743
01:45:51.479 --> 01:45:55.199
insulting her by calling her bloody Mary. So I guess

1744
01:45:55.239 --> 01:45:58.560
in that way that could be what's pissing Candy Man

1745
01:45:58.600 --> 01:46:00.359
off as you're calling him the name that the people

1746
01:46:00.399 --> 01:46:03.920
who killed him called him. But when you dig deeper

1747
01:46:03.960 --> 01:46:08.439
into the Bloody Mary myth, one of the most chilling

1748
01:46:08.880 --> 01:46:12.159
ways to do it was to be alone in a

1749
01:46:12.239 --> 01:46:15.520
room with a mirror and instead of saying bloody Mary,

1750
01:46:16.359 --> 01:46:21.279
you say marry Worth, I killed your baby five times.

1751
01:46:22.359 --> 01:46:25.960
That was one of the versions that was going around

1752
01:46:25.720 --> 01:46:29.000
you'd say, Meryworth, I killed your baby, because the whole

1753
01:46:29.000 --> 01:46:31.840
thing is that Maryworth is angry because her baby was

1754
01:46:31.880 --> 01:46:36.800
taken from her. Oh and supposedly that would guarantee horrible death.

1755
01:46:37.359 --> 01:46:39.359
Because it should also be mentioned there are all kinds

1756
01:46:39.359 --> 01:46:42.479
of party games from the early nineteen hundreds where it's

1757
01:46:42.479 --> 01:46:44.760
like you look in a mirror and you'll see the

1758
01:46:44.800 --> 01:46:46.840
face of the man you're going to marry, and stuff

1759
01:46:46.840 --> 01:46:49.039
like that. Yeah, yeah, all kinds of things, all those

1760
01:46:49.199 --> 01:46:54.119
divination games. That's the exact term, Yeah, divination games. And meanwhile,

1761
01:46:54.119 --> 01:46:55.960
we have candy Man, which I kind of answered my

1762
01:46:55.960 --> 01:46:58.520
own questions. I realized, like, I guess candy Man's a pejorative,

1763
01:46:58.760 --> 01:47:00.680
so that's why he comes. When you say candy Man,

1764
01:47:00.720 --> 01:47:04.279
he cut you're pissing him off. But the bloody Mary thing,

1765
01:47:04.319 --> 01:47:06.520
Like I just remember when I first heard like Maryworth,

1766
01:47:06.560 --> 01:47:08.640
I killed your baby, I was like, holy shit, that

1767
01:47:08.760 --> 01:47:11.840
sounds like that sounds like how you get got, yeah,

1768
01:47:11.960 --> 01:47:15.199
by by a demon. So anyway, those are my my

1769
01:47:15.359 --> 01:47:20.279
basic thoughts about candy Man and stuff like that. And yeah,

1770
01:47:20.279 --> 01:47:23.239
and Helen could be you know, it could all be real,

1771
01:47:23.319 --> 01:47:26.640
or she could be truly insane in kind of doing

1772
01:47:26.680 --> 01:47:29.319
the bidding for whatever it is that is candy Man.

1773
01:47:30.000 --> 01:47:32.640
That could be as well. The story about the couple

1774
01:47:32.640 --> 01:47:36.159
in Indiana may have never happened. It was clearly a

1775
01:47:36.279 --> 01:47:39.119
my cousin knew a guy at the Burger king whose

1776
01:47:39.640 --> 01:47:43.600
you know, ex wife was best friends with the guy. Yeah,

1777
01:47:43.600 --> 01:47:46.760
that kind of thing. So that I don't know, and

1778
01:47:46.960 --> 01:47:50.159
I just know that I love the picture they painted

1779
01:47:50.520 --> 01:47:54.079
very efficiently in Candy Man. Because it's not a super

1780
01:47:54.119 --> 01:47:59.279
long movie. It's thick with mythos and atmosphere, and I

1781
01:47:59.359 --> 01:48:02.079
just think it's a really great addition to your Halloween lineup,

1782
01:48:02.159 --> 01:48:05.199
especially if you haven't watched it in a while, because

1783
01:48:05.239 --> 01:48:10.640
the visuals are stunning. The performances are truly excellent. Mmmmmm yeah,

1784
01:48:10.680 --> 01:48:13.800
what do you have to say, Well.

1785
01:48:13.840 --> 01:48:15.119
It's a beautiful movie.

1786
01:48:16.279 --> 01:48:16.600
Again.

1787
01:48:16.800 --> 01:48:21.159
I love how gothic the shots are of the architecture,

1788
01:48:21.680 --> 01:48:25.520
even when they're in you know, this rundown tenement building

1789
01:48:25.560 --> 01:48:30.680
and everything's crumbling around them. The mural like the wall

1790
01:48:30.840 --> 01:48:33.640
with the mural of Candy Man with his mouth open

1791
01:48:33.840 --> 01:48:37.199
and this you know, big empty room. They filmed it

1792
01:48:37.279 --> 01:48:39.399
in such a way that it feels like the inside

1793
01:48:39.399 --> 01:48:43.600
of a cathedral. Yeah, like it it feels like there's

1794
01:48:43.640 --> 01:48:48.079
a reverence to it despite being run down and decrepit.

1795
01:48:49.359 --> 01:48:54.199
And the soundtrack is also very gothic. It's got, you know,

1796
01:48:54.239 --> 01:48:57.279
a lot of organs and stuff going on in it.

1797
01:48:57.279 --> 01:48:59.840
It's not at all what you would generally expect from

1798
01:49:00.199 --> 01:49:04.840
slasher film, which is very refreshing and very nice. It

1799
01:49:05.000 --> 01:49:11.399
makes Candy Man himself feel more classy as a movie villain. Yeah,

1800
01:49:11.439 --> 01:49:13.680
I could see that he's just got a lot of

1801
01:49:13.760 --> 01:49:17.479
class to him, which I really like, you know, whereas

1802
01:49:17.880 --> 01:49:21.199
you know, Freddy Krueger's kind of crass and gold and

1803
01:49:22.319 --> 01:49:26.600
you know, but it's it's a very fun dichotomy as

1804
01:49:26.600 --> 01:49:31.960
far as you know, movie villains go, especially considering because

1805
01:49:32.119 --> 01:49:36.640
Freddy Krueger and Candy Man both deal with the realm

1806
01:49:36.840 --> 01:49:42.520
of the subconscious. It's very interesting how they're both so

1807
01:49:42.680 --> 01:49:48.279
different but so similar. And I really do like the

1808
01:49:48.279 --> 01:49:53.000
the train of thought behind the fact that Candy Man

1809
01:49:53.159 --> 01:49:57.079
exists in our subconscious and that he gains his power

1810
01:49:57.199 --> 01:50:02.279
from us just believing in him, and again, very similar

1811
01:50:02.279 --> 01:50:06.600
to Freddy Krueger. But whereas you know, in Nightmare on

1812
01:50:06.640 --> 01:50:09.239
Elm Street, they're kind of able to stop believing him.

1813
01:50:09.279 --> 01:50:12.720
In believing in him and take away the power in

1814
01:50:12.920 --> 01:50:16.560
Candy Man. She just completely falls head over heels into

1815
01:50:16.600 --> 01:50:20.279
believing him and gives him all of the power, which

1816
01:50:20.359 --> 01:50:22.319
I think is very very interesting.

1817
01:50:22.800 --> 01:50:28.199
And Candy Man being a seducer is is a relatively

1818
01:50:28.399 --> 01:50:33.039
unusual mentality for a for a slasher villain or a

1819
01:50:33.079 --> 01:50:36.920
horror movie villain, aside from like Pinhead. Yeah, and even Pinhead,

1820
01:50:37.079 --> 01:50:41.119
he's he's a seducer in a very unusual way because

1821
01:50:41.159 --> 01:50:43.479
he is saying like you're going to suffer forever and

1822
01:50:43.520 --> 01:50:46.720
all this shit. Yeah yeah, And Candy Man is seductive,

1823
01:50:46.760 --> 01:50:48.960
I mean without a doubt. I mean like when he

1824
01:50:49.039 --> 01:50:52.479
starts talking and she's like looking at him all hypnotized.

1825
01:50:53.520 --> 01:50:56.039
You know, it could very easily turn into an early

1826
01:50:56.119 --> 01:51:02.479
nineties Calvin Klein at Obsession by Calvin Klein. So you know,

1827
01:51:02.760 --> 01:51:06.319
I think it's uh, it's really carved its own niche.

1828
01:51:06.960 --> 01:51:11.079
I want to revisit the Candyman sequel remake from a

1829
01:51:11.079 --> 01:51:13.039
few years back, because I liked it fine when it

1830
01:51:13.079 --> 01:51:15.319
came out. I feel like it was missing a lot

1831
01:51:15.319 --> 01:51:18.520
of that artfulness that that really kind of made candy

1832
01:51:18.600 --> 01:51:20.800
the first candy Man click because it was a success

1833
01:51:20.800 --> 01:51:22.359
of the box I was called eight million dollars, made

1834
01:51:22.359 --> 01:51:25.079
twenty six million at the house. I was very successful.

1835
01:51:25.119 --> 01:51:27.680
People were crazy about it. It was it was huge on

1836
01:51:27.760 --> 01:51:31.520
home video, and Candyman was being spoken of with Freddy

1837
01:51:31.600 --> 01:51:36.760
and Jason almost immediately. So yeah, he was very well

1838
01:51:36.800 --> 01:51:39.439
taken to by horror movie audiences.

1839
01:51:39.840 --> 01:51:41.239
That's good. That's good.

1840
01:51:41.640 --> 01:51:44.039
So with all that being said, we're going to be

1841
01:51:44.079 --> 01:51:48.000
wrapping up October next week with one more film for

1842
01:51:48.079 --> 01:51:50.359
cutting Deep, and then we'll be back a couple times

1843
01:51:50.359 --> 01:51:52.960
in November, a couple times in December. But we're we're

1844
01:51:52.960 --> 01:51:55.439
going a little extra hard for October because why not

1845
01:51:55.520 --> 01:51:58.279
everything else I've gone extra hard on. But do you

1846
01:51:58.319 --> 01:51:59.800
want to do you want to tell everybody what next

1847
01:51:59.840 --> 01:52:01.159
week's movie is?

1848
01:52:01.680 --> 01:52:05.680
Yeah, because you and I we had we had a

1849
01:52:05.720 --> 01:52:10.039
plan about how October was going to pan out, and

1850
01:52:10.079 --> 01:52:13.800
then as we were watching Candy Man, I think it

1851
01:52:13.840 --> 01:52:16.399
was right before we put it on, you turned and

1852
01:52:16.439 --> 01:52:19.960
you looked to me and you basically said, Hey, the

1853
01:52:20.000 --> 01:52:23.840
plan we had, let's change it. So I think now

1854
01:52:24.359 --> 01:52:27.600
we're going to be doing the Blair Witch Project.

1855
01:52:28.039 --> 01:52:31.960
Yes, a movie that I think it's funny that it's

1856
01:52:32.000 --> 01:52:34.760
polarizing because I just find that movie scary. It is scary,

1857
01:52:34.840 --> 01:52:37.760
and I'm really excited because I bought God I'm a nerd,

1858
01:52:37.920 --> 01:52:42.479
I bought the import Australian Blu Ray I believe was

1859
01:52:42.479 --> 01:52:48.279
Australian that has the fully remastered and director approved version

1860
01:52:48.439 --> 01:52:53.159
and a fully remastered director approved original cut which was

1861
01:52:53.199 --> 01:52:55.640
a little bit longer the one they showed at film festivals. Oo,

1862
01:52:56.920 --> 01:52:58.359
so we'll have to decide which one we're going to

1863
01:52:58.399 --> 01:53:01.319
watch for it. But yeah, so make sure to check

1864
01:53:01.319 --> 01:53:03.479
out the Blair Witch Project before we come back next

1865
01:53:03.520 --> 01:53:07.640
Friday to help make sure your spooky season stays spooky.

1866
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But now, I guess all that's left to say is

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thank you guys so much for joining us on another

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episode of cutting Deep into Horror. I hope you enjoyed

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talking or hearing us talk about Candyman as much as

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01:53:19.399 --> 01:53:23.039
we enjoyed watching it and recounting it to you. If

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you enjoyed what you heard here, headweklyspooky dot com for

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01:53:25.960 --> 01:53:29.279
all your spooky needs all October long. We're doing a

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01:53:29.399 --> 01:53:34.000
show every day, so there's something to scare you at

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01:53:34.000 --> 01:53:37.159
Weekly Spooky. Just find it on your favorite podcasting app

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01:53:37.199 --> 01:53:39.159
and if you love what we're doing, head to Weeklyspooky

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01:53:39.239 --> 01:53:41.640
dot com slash join, where you can support us for

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as little as one dollar a month, or head to

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savorista dot com and buy yourself some coffee with a

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promo code Weekly or Spooky geez I am tired at checkout, Rachel.

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Anything you want to say before we get out of.

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01:53:54.640 --> 01:53:58.880
Here, Ah, be careful of the bees.

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01:53:59.560 --> 01:54:10.479
Okay, empty man

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H