Cutting Deep into Horror | Paranormal Activity Changed Found Footage Horror Forever

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So I know you've been feeling kind of weird about

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the whole videotaping everything thing I've been doing. But I

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need you to see this.

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Okay, Okay, okay, I'm looking.

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So I took the footage from last night. You know,

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I plugged the camera into the FireWire drive so it

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could record the whole night, and I've kind of sped

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around and found spots where some weird stuff's been happening. Okay,

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So here, you know, we're asleep. It's twelve thirty at night.

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And now we'll fast forward. And now right there, no,

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you start getting up. Do you remember getting out of bed? No?

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So now you're standing there just staring at the bed.

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And now if I fast forward, you'll see it's been

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an hour, an hour and a half. Now right here,

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Now you turn around and you walk out of the room,

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and then you come back with a ham sandwich. And

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the only reason I know it's ham sandwich is because

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we're out of ham.

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Now where did I get the ham?

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Well? No, I'm saying you used the last of the ham.

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We're out of ham now, so it must be a

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ham sandwich because otherwise you would, you know, we'd still

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have some ham left over. So now you eat two

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bites of it, but then you just set it on

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the floor. It's like, why would you do that? Like

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that's how you get mice.

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I mean maybe it's I'm stress eating in my sleep or.

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But then you'd finish it, I'd think. But but but

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that's not all. So now if we go forward a

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little bit more, you just kind of look at the sandwich. Now,

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I don't know, maybe you didn't like the sandwich. I

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have no idea, and apparently you don't either. But then

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you turn around and you just start scratching your butt.

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Oh and now and then oh, it's been an hour,

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and now it's been two hours.

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Wow, I am really going at that butt crack.

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I'm shocked you're not bleeding. But then it stops there

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and then and then you just lay back down and

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go to sleep. I feel like I don't feel like

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this is paranormal, but I feel like you should probably

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talk to an expert of some sort.

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Well, I need to talk to my I might have

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internal parasites.

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I yeah, I was thinking, you know a doctor that

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handles things a little bit higher in the body, like

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toward the toward the brain. But that's just me.

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This podcast is about why horror scares us, what deep, dark,

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secret scary cinema shines a light on. The discussions are

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frank and involve conversations about abuse, trauma, and mental health.

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There are also spoilers, so keep that in mind too. Now,

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sharpen your machetes and straight raisers, because this is Cutting

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Deep into Horror.

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Hello, my spookies, and welcome back to Cutting Deep into Horror. I'm,

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of course, your host and k Kuto with my co

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host Rachel Ridolfi. Rachel, how are you. I'm doing good, good,

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good good, I mean not as good as me because

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you didn't take a cold shower.

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You're yeah, I'm really scared.

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I am very It was awesome. I got to get

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back into taking cold showers all the time.

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I could hear you, by the way.

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I couldn't imagine you wouldn't hear me because it was

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I was like screaming out in pain. Duh. It's called

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a cold shower, dude. But this week we're talking, we've

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really kind of went into a rabbit hole with found

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footage movies. Yeah, not just because we like them, and

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not just because you have a lot of blind spots

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on some of the more classic found footage movies. But

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also because when I was coming up in movies, found

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footage was kind of a maligned subgenre, m h. And

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now that malignness is way less. Yeah, there are a

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lot more people who love them, prefer them, you know,

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think they're say they're their favorite subgenre, et cetera, as

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to where that was not always the case. Yeah, so

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now very few people like, oh, another found footage movie.

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Most people are just like cool found footage movie. So

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that made it more fun to kind of dive in.

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And there really are a lot of great found footage movies,

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which makes sense from the era that they were like established. Yeah,

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of course there'd be a lot of great ones. So

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we're talking about one now if you know, a lot

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of people would call, like fairly, I think Blair Witch

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Project like the granddaddy of them all, even even though

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in reality that's probably cannibal Holocaust or maybe not. We

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don't know. It's hard to know for sure, but Blair

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Witch Project was definitely one of the big ones. It

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definitely made it mainstream entirely. Yeah, But the resurgence, the big,

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big surge of found footage movies started with paranormal activity,

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and I find paranormal activity to be somewhat polarizing with people.

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Most people seem to like it, but then there's also

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the whole thing where like there were like eight of

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them or seven of them, Yeah, and they vary quite

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a bit, although I think they're all pretty funny. I

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even liked Ghost Dimension, which most people crapped all over.

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Of course, I saw in the theater in three D,

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which I think helped basically, whenever something paranormal happened, the

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three D would happen.

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Oh that's kind of cool.

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It was fun. It was very fun three D found

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footage movie though, So that's at a little interesting move.

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But yeah, but so some people love it, some people

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hate it. Some people get really up in arms about

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like the boyfriend character being kind of a jerk, although

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I gotta admit, after watching it again, I feel like

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I don't feel nearly as a negative toward him. I

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think he had a lot of fair points.

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He did, and he has a lot of depth. I

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feel like they both do. But he was a very convincing,

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like real life person because he wasn't just this one

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dimensional bad boyfriend.

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I would agree with that. So we're going to talk

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about Paranoral Activity, which you'd never seen m hm, And

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we may end up talking about some of the sequels,

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because after revisiting the first one, which had been a while,

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I realized that some of and this happens sometimes with

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franchises that are a bit more similar in I don't know,

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and not in tone, but like in visuals. I had

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remembered some gags from the sequels and thought they were

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in the first one, which made me realize, oh man,

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Paranormal Activity two and three might actually be a lot

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better than I remember, Like they might be worth having

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their own shows. We'll see. But tonight we're talking about

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Paranoral Activity from two thousand and seven. I don't know,

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you know how many people would not have seen this one.

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It was basically everywhere. It was a huge phenomena. I

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mean it was massive. I mean last week we talked

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about Cloverfield, which was, you know, decently big, but it

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had a huge budget, and I think it didn't even

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come close to making what Paranormal Activity made at the

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box office. Now it's available to watch free with ads

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on Pluto TV or with your subscription to Paramount Plus.

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And then of course you can rent it on all

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your favorite services like Amazon Prime, Fendango at Home, et cetera,

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et cetera. Now I'm curious, I'm in a double check.

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So so yeah, Cloverfield cost thirty million dollars made one

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hundred and seventy two million worldwide paranormal activity cost. Depending

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on who you ask, the initial budget was fifteen grand,

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but then later estimates could be as much as four

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hundred and fifty thousand dollars. That may include marketing costs,

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or maybe it was just post production and reshoots. I

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don't know. But the box office was one hundred and

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ninety four million, so it was more than Cloverfield, and

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even at the highest estimate, its budget was substantially less

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than Clever. You're that You're that shocked it was there

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was one of the biggest movies in the world.

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No, I'm just I guess I shouldn't be that shocked,

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because I do. I do remember when it came out.

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I remember the marketing, and I remember seeing.

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The seeing the night vision shots of people like freaking

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out in the theater, which was a cool way to go.

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There was a whole era where in the seventies and

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eighties where movie commercials, trailers for movies were just catching

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people outside of a screening, like on the street and

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asking him, like what they thought they did that With

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The Exorcist, I.

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Think I think I've seen If I haven't seen videos

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of like actual recordings of that, I've at least seen

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people spoofing it.

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Oh for sure, for sure. But yeah, no, it was everywhere,

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and I mean that's why it spawned so many sequels.

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It was directed by Oren Pele. I think I'm saying

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that right who at the time. I believe that was

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his first Yeah, that was his first feature film, and

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he went on to be a very prolific producer, often

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with Blumhouse, who Blumhouse took on Paranormal Activity, producing Paranormal Activity,

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then Insidious, then the Paranormal Activity sequels as a producer,

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then working on The Chernobyl Diaries, Lords of Salem with

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Rob Zombie The Bay, which is actually a found footage movie.

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I think we're gonna end up talking about on the

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show because I found that one really scary. I don't

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know how long we're gonna keep talking about found footage movies,

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but it maybe a while. But yeah, So, I mean

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he worked on a ton of them. He directed the

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movie Area fifty one from twenty fifteen, which I don't

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remember much about, so I'm guessing I didn't love it.

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But he did a lot of interesting stuff, and this

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was his first major film, his first film at all,

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and it was a just unbelievable hit. Yeah. So there's

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a lot to get into with paranormal activity there. It's

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a fascinating story of these you know, group of people

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getting together in California and just kind of filming stuff.

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Yeah.

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So it's just a it's it's a fascinating story.

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Yeah, I'm and I'm not certain you you can probably check,

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but I'm not certain if it's true. But I heard

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that it was mostly filmed in the director's house. I

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would be shocked if that wasn't the case. Yeah, which

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it does totally make sense. But not only is that,

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you know, a good way for them to save some money,

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it also just kind of like strikes home for you

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and I because that's very similar work, like, Oh, let's

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hit up our friends or something so we can go

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film this movie.

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Oh yeah, without a doubt, without a doubt. So we're

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going to jump into talking about the elements of paranormal

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activity we like the elements we may not have liked,

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and just more kind of pontification about the found footage

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genre and why it can work so well to scare us.

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Right after this, so, Paranormal Activity did establish an entirely

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new deluge of found footage films that were especially in

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the paranormal subgenre. Yeah, because Blair Witch Project was kind

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of in that way, but you didn't have the elements

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that were brought about by Paranoral Activity, which was a

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lot of kind of almost adjacent to the ghost Hunter

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shows of the time, absolutely, you know. Yeah, and the

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idea to me being not that the movies were inspired

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by ghost Hunters, but that the characters that are filming

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themselves in these movies are inspired by ghost Hunters. Yeah,

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and there have been a lot of hits. Graving Counters

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is when a lot of people really love. As far

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as found footage movies go, it was crazy how many

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came out. I mean, the Last Exorcism came out after this,

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The Devil Inside came out after this. The VHS series

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which is still going, you know, came out after this.

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The Asylum, the company that was known for what they

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called mockbusters, we did Transmorphers. When Transformers came.

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Out, they made Yeah, I've got a special relationship with Asylum.

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I mean I do too, but it's positive. I don't

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think your yours is not direct, but it's negative. Mine

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is direct, and it's positive. They're nice people. But yeah,

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but they made a movie called Paranormal Entity right around

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the same time and put that out, And to be honest,

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Paranormal Entity I think is a lot scarier. If I'm

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like really being sincere, I think it's a lot scarier

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found footage movie. It's just nastier, meaner, and more aggressive

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in like every way.

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Which is really interesting because I felt like the pacing

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and like the threat from the you know, demonic forces

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in Paranormal Activity, I felt like that was perfect because

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it just you know, kept encroaching and slowly escalating. So

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it's kind of interesting that that one, you know, goes

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balls to the wall.

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It does. I mean it makes sense that they would, though,

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because they're trying to you know, differentiate, and they don't

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have a lot of marketing dollars. Yeah. Yeah, you don't

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usually go subtle and you have a lot of marketing dollars.

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Plus from what I recall, Paranormal Activity when it was

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00:12:35.840 --> 00:12:37.440
bought and ended up sitting on the shelf for a

239
00:12:37.480 --> 00:12:40.960
hot minute. Oh man, So I believe yet, because it

240
00:12:41.000 --> 00:12:43.159
was officially released in two thousand and nine, almost two

241
00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:47.200
years after its first public screenings, and then it was

242
00:12:48.480 --> 00:12:51.879
Paramount like bought it basically, well DreamWorks bought it, and

243
00:12:51.919 --> 00:12:53.879
then Paramount of that was around the time I believe

244
00:12:53.919 --> 00:12:58.360
Paramount acquired DreamWorks, Okay, and that caused a whole thing.

245
00:13:00.200 --> 00:13:03.159
So it was, it was. It was a little bit tricky.

246
00:13:03.200 --> 00:13:07.559
So I remember, like bootleg there were bootlegs from screenings

247
00:13:08.039 --> 00:13:11.240
floating around. I mean when when we watched the original endings,

248
00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:12.279
that's what those were from.

249
00:13:12.440 --> 00:13:13.720
Okay, yeah, from one of them.

250
00:13:13.600 --> 00:13:16.279
Because those, I believe, the original original ending has never

251
00:13:16.279 --> 00:13:20.159
been released on any disc format or anything, never as

252
00:13:20.200 --> 00:13:24.240
an extra nothing, oh man. So, but the first time

253
00:13:24.279 --> 00:13:27.480
I saw Paranormal Activity was at my cousin Jeff's house,

254
00:13:27.519 --> 00:13:30.279
who had a bootleg. He had a lot of bootlegs

255
00:13:30.279 --> 00:13:33.320
back then. We were young and dumb and broke, very

256
00:13:33.440 --> 00:13:37.799
very broke. But I remembered liking it. I thought it felt,

257
00:13:37.960 --> 00:13:40.759
you know, kind of like a like what you'd expect

258
00:13:40.759 --> 00:13:44.200
found footage wise, but It did have some really solid moments,

259
00:13:44.679 --> 00:13:46.679
some really good attention to detail. But I think that

260
00:13:46.759 --> 00:13:50.600
the biggest thing this movie has is not necessarily originality

261
00:13:50.919 --> 00:13:54.559
or a genius element. But it was the exact right

262
00:13:54.559 --> 00:13:57.840
movie in the exact right time. Yeah, which that's good too,

263
00:13:58.279 --> 00:13:59.879
you know, because there are lots of really good found

264
00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:04.440
footage movies, but this one became ubiquitous with the whole

265
00:14:04.480 --> 00:14:08.120
concept of found footage. I mean, I think most people

266
00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:10.639
think paranormal activity. When I've made my first found footage

267
00:14:10.639 --> 00:14:12.320
movie and I was promoting it to people who are

268
00:14:12.320 --> 00:14:16.120
buying DVDs at fan conventions, I would literally be like,

269
00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:18.279
you know, it's it's a it's found footage in the

270
00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:20.360
in the style of like paranormal Activity in the Blair

271
00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:22.720
Witch Project. Those were the two they would always get. Yeah,

272
00:14:22.759 --> 00:14:24.960
and they're like, oh, because those are like the you know,

273
00:14:25.039 --> 00:14:28.440
craft and uh, you know, general Motors or whatever. You know,

274
00:14:28.679 --> 00:14:33.480
Like everybody's like, oh, I've heard that one. Yeah, yeah,

275
00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:36.879
so I but I enjoyed it. But I remember then

276
00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:39.159
I I never missed a sequel in the theater after

277
00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:42.960
that because they were always really fun. I like found

278
00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:45.279
footage movies in the theater. Some people don't. Some people

279
00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:48.200
find that they get like motion sick in the theater

280
00:14:48.279 --> 00:14:52.519
from them. I don't, so it doesn't bother me. Yeah, yeah,

281
00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:54.600
but uh but yeah, so I always enjoyed it, thought

282
00:14:54.639 --> 00:14:57.799
it worked pretty well as a film, and I thought

283
00:14:57.840 --> 00:14:59.679
it was really cool to see it blow up like

284
00:14:59.679 --> 00:15:02.320
it did. Although it does drive me crazy when people

285
00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:05.080
make a movie or whatever really cheap and they're like

286
00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:06.919
it's gonna be the next this thing or this thing,

287
00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:08.679
and I'm like, cool, because one of those comes around

288
00:15:08.679 --> 00:15:12.200
every like seven or eight years. So that means that like,

289
00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:14.120
if you miss this one, you just have to live

290
00:15:14.279 --> 00:15:19.440
like four hundred years to statistically have a shot. But anyway,

291
00:15:19.480 --> 00:15:22.240
I digress on that one. But what about you? So

292
00:15:22.279 --> 00:15:25.519
when I put this on for you, what were you thinking?

293
00:15:25.559 --> 00:15:26.799
What was the experience like for you?

294
00:15:28.120 --> 00:15:32.279
I mean I obviously kind of had a general idea

295
00:15:32.960 --> 00:15:37.879
of what the basic plot was. Yeah, but yeah, what

296
00:15:38.399 --> 00:15:42.840
got me almost immediately was the feeling of like, oh,

297
00:15:42.840 --> 00:15:45.799
we're watching like a ghost Hunter show, or if not

298
00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:48.879
a ghost Hunter show, then people who should be hosting

299
00:15:49.399 --> 00:15:52.120
a ghost Hunter show because they have that kind of

300
00:15:52.159 --> 00:15:56.480
dichotomy of like the true believer who's like all in

301
00:15:56.799 --> 00:16:00.240
and then the skeptic who's like kind of just going

302
00:16:00.279 --> 00:16:01.039
along with it.

303
00:16:02.679 --> 00:16:03.240
Yeah.

304
00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:07.440
But what I as the story unfolded and as the

305
00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:11.720
tension continued to build, what I really loved was the

306
00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:17.159
kind of less is more philosophy for everything, because some

307
00:16:17.240 --> 00:16:21.600
of the scariest scenes in that movie, like hardly anything

308
00:16:21.679 --> 00:16:24.799
really happens except like maybe a noise and like some

309
00:16:24.919 --> 00:16:26.759
movement in the background. But it's like one of the

310
00:16:26.759 --> 00:16:29.159
scariest things I saw, like all weeks.

311
00:16:29.600 --> 00:16:33.360
I think less is More is a major that's a

312
00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:35.840
major thing. I think that that, and I think that

313
00:16:35.919 --> 00:16:39.399
with found footage movies. To me, that's when when I

314
00:16:39.480 --> 00:16:42.720
don't love a found footage movie that's overall done really well,

315
00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:46.440
it's usually because they leaned into too much. Yeah, Because

316
00:16:46.720 --> 00:16:48.840
I mean, number one, when it comes to a found

317
00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:52.039
footage movie, you aren't going to capture everything as it

318
00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:55.399
happens because it's all happening at once and you're not

319
00:16:55.720 --> 00:16:58.159
prepared to film it. So you should already have a

320
00:16:58.240 --> 00:17:01.799
sense of that kind of like what what's happening? You know, Oh,

321
00:17:01.840 --> 00:17:03.840
this is just now happening and we weren't ready for it.

322
00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:06.319
That should be there anyway, so you should miss lots

323
00:17:06.319 --> 00:17:10.359
of stuff. Yeah, but also less is more because you're

324
00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:12.319
trying to make people feel like this could happen to them,

325
00:17:12.359 --> 00:17:15.599
and the big moments don't, like, big crazy moments don't

326
00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:17.799
happen to anybody. It's kind of the whole gag where

327
00:17:17.799 --> 00:17:19.200
you can watch a movie and somebody gets their head

328
00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:21.319
chopped off and just like applaud. But then if somebody

329
00:17:21.319 --> 00:17:24.640
cuts themselves shaving, you know, ah, yeah, yeah, empathetic to

330
00:17:24.680 --> 00:17:27.160
that pain. You're not empathetic to get decapitated. You have

331
00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:28.079
no idea what it's.

332
00:17:27.920 --> 00:17:31.960
Like, hopefully, so yeah, if you do, I've got questions.

333
00:17:32.079 --> 00:17:35.759
Yeah, But like it's a silly comparison. But there used

334
00:17:35.799 --> 00:17:37.440
to be a thing they would do in pro wrestling

335
00:17:38.839 --> 00:17:41.680
when they were trying to like really push realism, where

336
00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:45.240
they would have things they would they would have in

337
00:17:45.319 --> 00:17:47.880
pro wrestling, like you'd cut to the backstage and somebody

338
00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:50.160
be talking to the camera or talking to an interviewer

339
00:17:50.240 --> 00:17:52.319
or whatever, so they would cut to that, and then

340
00:17:52.359 --> 00:17:56.559
they'd have like two wrestlers like ram into him because

341
00:17:56.559 --> 00:17:58.839
they're both in a brawl. So it looked like it

342
00:17:58.920 --> 00:18:00.960
wasn't supposed to happen, and it wasn't supposed to be

343
00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:02.960
on camera, and then the camera would suddenly like try

344
00:18:02.960 --> 00:18:05.599
to capture this brawl to get the audience excited and

345
00:18:05.640 --> 00:18:08.839
make you think you just witness something legitimate. Yeah, yeah,

346
00:18:08.839 --> 00:18:10.759
And that's kind of what my point is about, Like

347
00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:14.000
the storytelling process with found footage is you should miss

348
00:18:14.039 --> 00:18:15.920
lots of stuff because you never know what's going to

349
00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:18.400
happen or where it's coming from. I think one of

350
00:18:18.440 --> 00:18:21.559
the big elements that Paranormal Activity did brilliantly was the

351
00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:25.279
hole locking the camera down and filming them in bed. Yes,

352
00:18:25.880 --> 00:18:28.039
I think that, and that was relatively new, and I

353
00:18:28.079 --> 00:18:32.400
thought that worked really well. It added a very big differentiator.

354
00:18:32.680 --> 00:18:36.079
And the gag where she's like standing and staring and

355
00:18:36.119 --> 00:18:38.640
it's like two hours, that's the easiest gag to do

356
00:18:39.079 --> 00:18:42.960
from a technical perspective, because when you speed up footage,

357
00:18:43.640 --> 00:18:46.519
whether it's five minutes or five hours, it basically looks

358
00:18:46.559 --> 00:18:49.119
the same when you speed it up really fast. So literally,

359
00:18:49.160 --> 00:18:51.079
as long as the number says it's been two hours,

360
00:18:51.119 --> 00:18:52.759
you could have sped up about a minute and a

361
00:18:52.759 --> 00:18:56.240
half a footage and it'll look fine. You can't tell, yeah, yeah,

362
00:18:56.240 --> 00:18:59.200
you literally can't tell, especially if you're in a stationary room.

363
00:18:59.240 --> 00:19:01.240
I mean, if you're outdoor, it's a little easier because

364
00:19:01.279 --> 00:19:04.000
of cloud movement and stuff. But like it's an easy

365
00:19:04.039 --> 00:19:06.599
gag and it works perfectly. I mean when she stands

366
00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:07.920
there staring at him and all of a sudden, you

367
00:19:07.960 --> 00:19:10.079
see the timers speed up and you realize, like, Okay,

368
00:19:10.079 --> 00:19:11.640
it's been an hour. Oh it's been two hours. That's

369
00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:14.200
really weird. That is super effective.

370
00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:14.720
It is.

371
00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:19.319
Yeah, so it works great. It's it's easy and effective.

372
00:19:19.359 --> 00:19:21.680
That's like you know, I did. I had no hate

373
00:19:21.680 --> 00:19:23.599
to Cloverfield the movie, talked about it all last week,

374
00:19:23.640 --> 00:19:25.720
but like, that's one of the things I think it's lacking,

375
00:19:25.880 --> 00:19:29.200
is that subtlety that is really valuable in a lot

376
00:19:29.240 --> 00:19:30.319
of found footage stories.

377
00:19:30.599 --> 00:19:32.599
No, I absolutely agree.

378
00:19:32.400 --> 00:19:35.200
So, and I think Paranormal Activity wasn't afraid to lean

379
00:19:35.240 --> 00:19:38.200
into that. I think that honestly. I think a lot

380
00:19:38.200 --> 00:19:40.440
of found footage movies when they falter, it's because they're

381
00:19:40.440 --> 00:19:43.480
too afraid to go less is more so, they chicken

382
00:19:43.519 --> 00:19:45.079
out and just do a ton of stuff and then

383
00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:48.400
it just takes you out of it. Absolutely, that's my experiencing. Yeah,

384
00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:51.079
I've often been like, oh, I was kind of expecting

385
00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:53.920
this to be creepier and simpler. Yeah, and then here

386
00:19:53.960 --> 00:19:56.119
we are. Yeah, you know, so we're going to take

387
00:19:56.119 --> 00:19:58.519
a quick break and then maybe I'll let you say

388
00:19:58.519 --> 00:20:01.559
something about paranormal activity right after this.

389
00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:20.119
So I liked about the introduction for both of the

390
00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:25.319
characters was you know, very organic, worked very well and

391
00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:32.079
also helped set up the whole story perfectly because we

392
00:20:32.240 --> 00:20:37.000
are introduced to Katie and Meka, not Micah, Mika Meeka

393
00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:43.720
and kind of introduced to the idea that they they've

394
00:20:43.759 --> 00:20:46.319
been dating a while, but they probably like just recently

395
00:20:46.359 --> 00:20:49.359
moved in together and now it's becoming a problem that

396
00:20:49.519 --> 00:20:57.079
Katie's having issues at night. And what I liked is

397
00:20:58.039 --> 00:21:04.559
Mika toes this fine line between being skeptical and being dismissive.

398
00:21:05.559 --> 00:21:08.680
And you mentioned that he gets a lot of hate

399
00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:11.319
from fans, but what I saw was like, he may

400
00:21:11.319 --> 00:21:15.640
be a little bit dismissive of like the supernatural elements,

401
00:21:16.119 --> 00:21:20.680
but he's not dismissive of her experiences. He's just really

402
00:21:20.720 --> 00:21:24.960
skeptical that it could have any kind of supernatural tie in.

403
00:21:25.640 --> 00:21:28.000
It's it's more like he just wants to get video

404
00:21:28.039 --> 00:21:29.799
of what she's doing in her sleep so he can

405
00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:34.000
kind of put her mind at ease more than anything else.

406
00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:36.759
So I really, I really like that it's not just

407
00:21:37.880 --> 00:21:43.960
this strict, you know, asshole boyfriend thing. And I do

408
00:21:44.119 --> 00:21:47.680
also like that, you know, he really does kind of

409
00:21:47.720 --> 00:21:50.039
again being a skeptic, he kind of ties it into

410
00:21:50.119 --> 00:21:54.000
I don't think that it's you know, ghosts or anything.

411
00:21:54.079 --> 00:21:58.359
It's like, well, maybe you're sleep walking, or maybe you're

412
00:21:58.480 --> 00:22:02.319
experiencing night terrors or something. He never, you know, he

413
00:22:02.359 --> 00:22:04.279
never comes out and says it, but that's kind of

414
00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:08.400
like the vibe that he's giving when he's explaining like, Okay,

415
00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:11.759
I'm gonna set up the camera and record a sleeping Well, she's.

416
00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:15.119
Not at it that it's entirely ghosts either. She just

417
00:22:15.160 --> 00:22:17.799
doesn't know what it is. Yeah, I mean she's not,

418
00:22:18.200 --> 00:22:21.480
you know, a one hundred percent believer in anything wild

419
00:22:21.880 --> 00:22:24.960
or different. I think the reason people think he's a

420
00:22:25.039 --> 00:22:26.920
jerk is because he's just kind of like on her

421
00:22:26.960 --> 00:22:30.359
about everything. But there's a scene in the film we

422
00:22:31.240 --> 00:22:32.960
I pointed out and we kind of talked about when

423
00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:35.680
we were watching it where he basically says like, I

424
00:22:35.759 --> 00:22:40.640
didn't know any of this until you moved in, and

425
00:22:41.079 --> 00:22:42.880
she says, oh, that's something I'm supposed to say on

426
00:22:42.920 --> 00:22:45.119
a first date, like, oh, I you know I I

427
00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:46.880
may have been I may be being haunted since some

428
00:22:46.960 --> 00:22:49.720
eight years old. He's like, maybe on the sixteenth date,

429
00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:53.960
And I thought that was a fair yeahs from him though,

430
00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:56.880
to be like, I figured eventually you'd want to say something,

431
00:22:56.960 --> 00:22:58.599
especially once it's like you're gonna live with me.

432
00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:02.880
It could be part of the conversation of moving in together.

433
00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:06.440
Well. They also there are also other little elements that

434
00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:09.160
they hint at, you know, because if you've never seen

435
00:23:09.160 --> 00:23:10.960
this movie before somehow and you don't know what it's

436
00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:13.839
about somehow, I mean it's literally a couple are trying

437
00:23:13.880 --> 00:23:16.039
to figure out what is going on in their house

438
00:23:16.079 --> 00:23:18.319
and what's terrorizing her while she's sleeping, that's really it.

439
00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:21.200
And he's filming it because he wants to. I mean,

440
00:23:21.240 --> 00:23:23.720
he's filming it because he thinks it'll be interesting, and

441
00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:28.839
he most importantly has too much time on his hands

442
00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:33.640
because he is a day trader. And they don't lean

443
00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:36.880
into that a ton, but he's a day trader. And

444
00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:40.720
if you've never met a day trader, they fall into

445
00:23:40.759 --> 00:23:44.480
two categories. Generally, they're either hustling like crazy and just

446
00:23:44.519 --> 00:23:48.279
barely getting by, or they figured out their groove and

447
00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:52.440
they just kind of you know, they probably work intensely,

448
00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:55.200
like three hours a day and make good money. Because

449
00:23:55.200 --> 00:23:56.599
there's one part where she asked, like how much was

450
00:23:56.640 --> 00:23:58.640
the camera? And he's like makes some jokes, you know,

451
00:23:58.720 --> 00:24:00.480
really like but how much did you buy that camera for?

452
00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:05.519
And he makes an offhand comment and just says he says,

453
00:24:05.559 --> 00:24:07.319
like it was it wasn't that bad. I mean it

454
00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:10.839
was it was half what I made today. Yeah, And

455
00:24:10.880 --> 00:24:15.279
that to me suggests that he's very successful in day trading.

456
00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:19.799
Because even at the cheapest a camera like the one

457
00:24:19.839 --> 00:24:21.880
he's filming on, which I don't know which camera he

458
00:24:21.960 --> 00:24:23.759
was using, because I never got a really good look

459
00:24:23.799 --> 00:24:27.400
at it, but at best that camera would be a

460
00:24:27.400 --> 00:24:30.680
grand or two. So the idea that he said about

461
00:24:30.680 --> 00:24:34.319
half what I made today, most people would not a

462
00:24:34.400 --> 00:24:36.680
day's wages would not be able to be thrown to

463
00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:40.440
buy a you know, professional or close to professional camera. Yeah,

464
00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:42.759
So clearly he's making good money. But my point is

465
00:24:42.839 --> 00:24:45.759
that suggests that he has too much time on his hands.

466
00:24:45.799 --> 00:24:48.519
He's at home all day. We never really get a

467
00:24:48.599 --> 00:24:51.480
hint of what she does. I don't even I'm pretty

468
00:24:51.480 --> 00:24:52.759
sure she has a job, right.

469
00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:55.400
I think she has a job. Let me look because

470
00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:58.200
I pulled up some synopsies.

471
00:24:58.839 --> 00:25:00.759
I mean, if she has a job, we never really

472
00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:01.599
hear about it.

473
00:25:02.240 --> 00:25:05.599
So yeah, we never really hear about it. All we

474
00:25:05.640 --> 00:25:06.960
know is that he's a day trader.

475
00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:11.960
Wow. I love We were joking about this before the show.

476
00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:16.400
I love Gemini because it's so worthless. I asked what

477
00:25:16.599 --> 00:25:19.000
camera was used in paranormal activity and said to capture

478
00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:22.400
the look, and they used a Sony Handicam HDRFX one

479
00:25:22.440 --> 00:25:26.720
in HDR HC three for handheld scenes and a Sony

480
00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:31.640
A seven s mirrorless that didn't exist. Mirrorless cameras weren't

481
00:25:31.640 --> 00:25:35.519
invented on the major marketplace for like five more years.

482
00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:39.640
The A seven s. That wasn't a thing yet.

483
00:25:41.079 --> 00:25:42.279
Nice try Gemini.

484
00:25:42.599 --> 00:25:46.839
No, it's not trying, that's the problem. But okay, So

485
00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:50.160
a real source says it was the HDR the Sony

486
00:25:50.279 --> 00:25:54.519
HDR FX one, which I'm not very familiar with because

487
00:25:54.519 --> 00:25:58.359
it's a cam quarter. Oh it's a very nice one, though.

488
00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:03.480
What was the detail rice? I just want to know? Yeah, yeah, curious. Now,

489
00:26:04.440 --> 00:26:07.200
thirty seven hundred dollars, which would have been my guess

490
00:26:07.240 --> 00:26:08.680
would have been about that much. Wow.

491
00:26:08.799 --> 00:26:11.759
Okay, okay, so yeah, he is very successful.

492
00:26:11.960 --> 00:26:15.079
It was an older camera, although back then cameras didn't

493
00:26:15.079 --> 00:26:16.880
go out of date so fast. Yeah, so it was

494
00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:21.039
from two thousand and four. Okay, but that's not Back

495
00:26:21.079 --> 00:26:23.440
then cameras had like a shelf life of five or

496
00:26:23.480 --> 00:26:27.359
six years normally. Yeah. So, I mean before they would

497
00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:29.240
even release a new model. I mean not not even

498
00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:30.920
to say that. You know, every time they release a

499
00:26:30.920 --> 00:26:33.599
new model, you have to upgrade. It's just they didn't

500
00:26:33.599 --> 00:26:36.160
even release a new model every single year for those

501
00:26:36.200 --> 00:26:37.839
cameras like they do now pretty much.

502
00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:38.480
So.

503
00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:40.680
Yeah, so he clearly makes good money. And they have

504
00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:42.640
a pretty nice house there in San Diego, which is

505
00:26:42.680 --> 00:26:44.720
not the cheapest place to live in the world. They

506
00:26:44.759 --> 00:26:46.599
have a swimming pool, they have a pretty big house.

507
00:26:47.319 --> 00:26:49.279
But I thought that that was actually an element that's

508
00:26:49.359 --> 00:26:52.480
kind of underlooked about the film is that he has

509
00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:54.440
a lot of free time on his hands. And I

510
00:26:54.480 --> 00:26:56.480
can tell you as a person who works from home,

511
00:26:57.920 --> 00:26:59.839
although I don't have an immense amount of free time,

512
00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:04.599
it is very easy to obsess over things about the

513
00:27:04.640 --> 00:27:08.079
house because you're there all the time. Yeah, it is

514
00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:11.119
very easy. So I feel like that plays a major

515
00:27:11.720 --> 00:27:14.400
role in how he acts and how he is about,

516
00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:18.039
you know, figuring out her problem and their problem and

517
00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:19.640
stuff like that. That's just my opinion.

518
00:27:19.720 --> 00:27:23.319
No, that makes a lot of sense. It really does,

519
00:27:23.359 --> 00:27:26.319
because then it's not just you know, if he worked

520
00:27:26.359 --> 00:27:28.160
in an office, it's like, hey, you can kind of

521
00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:31.240
escape the problem for eight hours a day, but when

522
00:27:31.279 --> 00:27:34.440
your home is the office, there is no escape.

523
00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:39.039
Yeah, I mean that is very true. I believe me.

524
00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:41.640
I know, believe me. I know. Well, we'll take a

525
00:27:41.720 --> 00:27:44.960
quick break and we'll get even deeper into some of

526
00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:48.880
this thick paranormal soup after this.

527
00:28:03.319 --> 00:28:07.000
Another thing that this movie gets right, and it kind

528
00:28:07.039 --> 00:28:10.839
of ties into the whole, like Miko working from homes

529
00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:15.599
so there's like no escape from the problems. Yeah, is

530
00:28:16.359 --> 00:28:21.799
it really gets right how terrifying things can be in

531
00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:26.880
your home, but especially like in your bedroom, when you

532
00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:33.039
stop feeling safe in your sleep. Okay, Yeah, and that's

533
00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:35.880
that's one of the you were talking about. Like, you know,

534
00:28:35.920 --> 00:28:38.680
in a movie, you can see someone like get shot

535
00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:42.240
and you don't react, but if someone like cuts their

536
00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:44.880
finger on a paper clip or you know, on paper,

537
00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:48.200
like you're like eh, or like the the the nail

538
00:28:48.319 --> 00:28:52.559
scene in a quiet place always gets me.

539
00:28:53.720 --> 00:28:56.519
Oh yeah, yeah, because you.

540
00:28:55.960 --> 00:29:00.359
You can imagine, and so like that's what this movie

541
00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:05.160
does so well, is we have all had those feelings

542
00:29:05.200 --> 00:29:08.680
of like laying in bed and then realizing like something

543
00:29:08.680 --> 00:29:11.400
in the room isn't quite right, but you don't know

544
00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:15.000
what it is. Yeah, And I know, I know, like

545
00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:21.559
you've done like whole shows about like sleep paralysis and

546
00:29:21.759 --> 00:29:24.680
you know, stuff like that. And that's what I like

547
00:29:25.720 --> 00:29:28.759
about this movie is, you know, we all have some

548
00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:32.960
sort of whether it's nightmares or sleep paralysis or you know,

549
00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:37.000
someone talking in their sleep, we all have some sort

550
00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:41.640
of experience that we can relate to in some way

551
00:29:41.799 --> 00:29:45.680
that kind of makes the movie more real to us.

552
00:29:46.319 --> 00:29:49.559
Yeah. No, I mean I think that's a fair point.

553
00:29:49.839 --> 00:29:52.559
I think that just the idea. What scares me the

554
00:29:52.599 --> 00:29:55.200
most about the concept is just the idea that something

555
00:29:55.799 --> 00:29:59.319
you know, very serious and you know, sinister could be

556
00:29:59.359 --> 00:30:03.720
happening in your home and you like, no matter what

557
00:30:03.799 --> 00:30:06.079
you do, you can't seem to stop it. Like there's

558
00:30:06.119 --> 00:30:08.480
no like you're totally powerless. And it's not just like

559
00:30:08.519 --> 00:30:12.079
at your front door, it is in your your home.

560
00:30:12.119 --> 00:30:15.680
In your bedroom and I think that stuff is, uh

561
00:30:16.519 --> 00:30:20.400
is really unsettling, Yeah, deeply unsettling. Yeah.

562
00:30:20.759 --> 00:30:22.759
Well, because your your home is supposed to be the

563
00:30:23.319 --> 00:30:27.319
safe you know, your ultimate safe space, and when stuff

564
00:30:27.759 --> 00:30:31.279
starts going wrong at home that you can't control, it's

565
00:30:31.319 --> 00:30:33.400
like you feel like you don't have any control over

566
00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:34.400
your life anymore.

567
00:30:35.799 --> 00:30:38.839
Yeah. I mean, well you mean you don't at that point.

568
00:30:39.039 --> 00:30:44.160
Yeah, And that's you know, as the movie escalates, they

569
00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:48.680
start to realize that they're losing control because, you know,

570
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:54.000
they start really seeing stuff happen around the house, whether

571
00:30:54.119 --> 00:30:57.319
we're hearing stuff like whether it's hearing like groaning or

572
00:30:57.359 --> 00:31:03.440
moaning at night, or you know, seeing seeing doors slam shut.

573
00:31:03.880 --> 00:31:08.839
And they fairly early on inviten. Was he a psychiatrist or.

574
00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:10.759
Well he was. He was a psychic, but he was

575
00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:12.119
also some kind of doctor.

576
00:31:13.039 --> 00:31:15.759
And he he was like, I don't think you guys

577
00:31:15.799 --> 00:31:17.680
are dealing with a ghost or anything. I think this

578
00:31:17.799 --> 00:31:20.119
is a demon. You should talk to a demonologist.

579
00:31:20.519 --> 00:31:22.440
Well I think he said that that was more because

580
00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:24.960
people don't get haunted by ghosts, I think is what

581
00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:28.440
he was getting out, and get haunted by by entities

582
00:31:28.920 --> 00:31:31.480
like demons. They don't get haunted because ghosts haunt places

583
00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:35.960
and uh yeah yeah, which which I've always heard in

584
00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:37.920
all of these kinds of horror movies. There's always that

585
00:31:37.960 --> 00:31:39.240
thing where it's like, you're not dealing with a ghost,

586
00:31:39.279 --> 00:31:41.839
You're dealing with a demon. Is like the bad news. Yeah,

587
00:31:42.039 --> 00:31:43.799
the biggest bad news you can get.

588
00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:46.039
Like, well, when there's a ghost, like you can kind

589
00:31:46.039 --> 00:31:47.319
of almost reason with it.

590
00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:52.839
Maybe maybe, But ghosts aren't inherently benevolent.

591
00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:53.960
No, that's true.

592
00:31:54.079 --> 00:31:57.920
You know they like every ghost is not bad or

593
00:31:58.000 --> 00:31:59.680
you know, wants to hurt you or whatever. I mean,

594
00:31:59.720 --> 00:32:02.799
they could be they I mean, I don't believe in ghosts,

595
00:32:02.799 --> 00:32:05.680
but I mean based on the lore of ghosts, it's

596
00:32:05.680 --> 00:32:08.119
like they can vary a lot in what they're like,

597
00:32:08.200 --> 00:32:11.480
but demons would not. They only intend to cause harm.

598
00:32:11.599 --> 00:32:21.000
Yeah, so bad bad news. But after discussing things with

599
00:32:21.160 --> 00:32:26.440
the psychic, Katie's like way more perturbed and she wants

600
00:32:26.480 --> 00:32:29.279
to follow his advice. But Mika is like, Okay, this

601
00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:33.160
is getting out of again. He's not being dismissive of her.

602
00:32:33.319 --> 00:32:35.359
He's like, I still think that things are going on

603
00:32:35.400 --> 00:32:38.559
it and I just don't think that contacting a demonologist

604
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:44.039
is actually going to do anything, and that obviously does

605
00:32:44.079 --> 00:32:53.279
not please the entity that he's doesn't believe, and the

606
00:32:53.279 --> 00:32:56.640
the psychic says like, don't interact with it, and Mika

607
00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:00.960
keeps interacting with it by trying to film it, which

608
00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:07.079
you know antagonizes it. And that's around the time the

609
00:33:07.119 --> 00:33:12.200
first time we see that Katie standing over Mika in

610
00:33:12.279 --> 00:33:17.920
her sleep gag. Yeah, and it well, it did. It

611
00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:24.319
did kind of remind me because you've sleep talked before,

612
00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:28.480
and it reminded me of that. But it, you know,

613
00:33:28.519 --> 00:33:31.559
it's the kind of thing where like again it it.

614
00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:35.920
Sleep is a point when you're so vulnerable that when

615
00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:40.759
someone starts acting weird in and around sleep, it just

616
00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:47.319
is super unsettling because you know everyone around them is

617
00:33:47.440 --> 00:33:50.759
vulnerable and when they start acting off, it's like, Okay,

618
00:33:50.799 --> 00:33:52.559
that's not a that's not a good thing.

619
00:33:52.680 --> 00:33:57.839
Well, I think that interpersonal relationships tend to hit a

620
00:33:57.839 --> 00:34:02.319
lot of friction when sleep is damaged. When when there's

621
00:34:02.319 --> 00:34:05.319
poor sleep, people are not They don't act their best,

622
00:34:05.920 --> 00:34:10.440
Yeah they are, They don't handle situations very well. Nobody's

623
00:34:10.480 --> 00:34:11.679
happy to lose sleep.

624
00:34:12.360 --> 00:34:13.960
No, I mean I'm not.

625
00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:16.480
I'm not a fan myself.

626
00:34:16.599 --> 00:34:20.360
No, But and and you know, there's been countless, countless

627
00:34:20.400 --> 00:34:24.079
studies about like, you know, losing sleep and how damaging

628
00:34:24.679 --> 00:34:31.679
it can be for you. And yeah, the movie definitely

629
00:34:31.760 --> 00:34:37.239
plays on as things escalate at night, they're both not

630
00:34:37.320 --> 00:34:40.719
only getting more freaked out by what's going on, but

631
00:34:40.800 --> 00:34:45.840
they're also getting more and more exhausted and more like

632
00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:48.639
almost fed up with each other because they're just so

633
00:34:48.960 --> 00:34:53.280
run thin by not getting enough sleep and then being

634
00:34:53.400 --> 00:34:55.800
terrorized by everything all the time, which.

635
00:34:55.760 --> 00:34:58.920
Was taken to an even bigger extent in blair Witch Project.

636
00:34:59.000 --> 00:35:01.119
I mean they oh, yeah, you know, they're they're tired,

637
00:35:01.159 --> 00:35:04.719
they're cold, they're hungry, and and all of that is

638
00:35:04.760 --> 00:35:07.760
why that's why the blair Witch Project has such an

639
00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:11.880
immense amount of lore building and questions unanswered that people

640
00:35:11.920 --> 00:35:14.559
want to know, you know, is there really a blair

641
00:35:14.599 --> 00:35:16.679
Witch or was it just them going crazy? And stuff

642
00:35:16.760 --> 00:35:21.639
is because they had so many external factors happening, and

643
00:35:21.800 --> 00:35:24.920
I think I think with Mika's character, he did want

644
00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:28.079
to prove that nothing was going on, but I don't

645
00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:30.480
think that that was with ill intent. I think he

646
00:35:30.559 --> 00:35:33.159
wanted to be able to show her so that she

647
00:35:33.239 --> 00:35:36.960
could hopefully gain solace. Exactly wanted to be able to go, look,

648
00:35:37.239 --> 00:35:40.039
nothing happened. Yeah, and then she could go oh, and

649
00:35:40.039 --> 00:35:42.840
they'd be like it's going to be okay. But also

650
00:35:42.920 --> 00:35:44.880
I think that you know, when it's like she keeps

651
00:35:44.920 --> 00:35:47.880
messing up his sleep every night, I mean, from his perspective,

652
00:35:47.920 --> 00:35:50.239
she's messing up asleep. Yeah, yeah, you know, because if

653
00:35:50.239 --> 00:35:53.039
she's freaking out and stuff, and from his perspective, she's

654
00:35:53.039 --> 00:35:55.360
the only person there, so she's wrecking asleep every night.

655
00:35:55.800 --> 00:35:58.840
So I can't blame him for getting a little snippy,

656
00:35:58.920 --> 00:36:02.000
you know, and he's like, look, there's just nothing there. Yeah,

657
00:36:02.320 --> 00:36:06.159
it's like there'd be some frustration going on. But I mean,

658
00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:10.159
you know, nobody's acting, you know, their best when they're

659
00:36:10.159 --> 00:36:14.239
dealing with activity of the paranormal persuasion.

660
00:36:14.599 --> 00:36:16.960
Hmmm, almost like it's in the title.

661
00:36:17.800 --> 00:36:18.039
Mmm.

662
00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:21.760
And that's a check. We're going to take a quick

663
00:36:21.760 --> 00:36:24.519
break and we'll be talking even more about this activity

664
00:36:24.519 --> 00:36:26.719
of the paranormal type.

665
00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:40.199
Yeah.

666
00:36:40.760 --> 00:36:46.719
You had mentioned when we were watching Cloverfield yea, that

667
00:36:47.840 --> 00:36:52.599
you really noticed going back over it with fresh eyes,

668
00:36:53.320 --> 00:36:56.639
that one of the things that you felt that worked

669
00:36:56.679 --> 00:37:00.320
against it was how just how glossy it was.

670
00:37:00.559 --> 00:37:03.880
Yeah, and and not necessarily just from a picture quality

671
00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:08.719
or sound quality standpoint, although there is that too, But

672
00:37:09.039 --> 00:37:13.719
because it had all these like very like they were

673
00:37:13.719 --> 00:37:16.679
all actors, like very like. If they weren't well known,

674
00:37:16.719 --> 00:37:19.039
they became well known almost immediately. They were all very

675
00:37:19.280 --> 00:37:22.199
for lack of a better and very actory type of actors.

676
00:37:22.280 --> 00:37:24.320
They looked like actors. It looked like you turned on

677
00:37:24.360 --> 00:37:27.800
a TV show. Yeah, because that's one thing. As much

678
00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:30.719
as I don't you know, I sometimes can be a

679
00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:34.599
bit harsh about why you pick a main character. The

680
00:37:34.679 --> 00:37:38.079
lead actress in Paranormal Activity does look like a like

681
00:37:38.800 --> 00:37:41.480
a pretty average person. She does, and I don't mean

682
00:37:41.519 --> 00:37:44.760
that as a dig. She doesn't look unattractive or slovenly,

683
00:37:44.880 --> 00:37:47.280
but she just looks like a person you could meet. Yeah.

684
00:37:47.400 --> 00:37:50.159
I feel like if if she was a teller at

685
00:37:50.199 --> 00:37:52.760
the bank, I would not be caught off guard.

686
00:37:53.119 --> 00:37:55.800
I would be because I saw paranormal Activity. But otherwise

687
00:37:55.800 --> 00:37:59.440
I get you. I get you. Otherwise I'd be like,

688
00:37:59.480 --> 00:38:01.559
holy crap. And then I'd be like, yeah, show, but

689
00:38:01.559 --> 00:38:04.320
it sucks. Huh. You know, at least this gets you

690
00:38:04.440 --> 00:38:09.360
dental again. Dental right, But no, Uh, that's all is like.

691
00:38:09.559 --> 00:38:12.000
That's the other thing, is like, Yeah, they're believable looking people.

692
00:38:12.039 --> 00:38:14.320
I mean Blair Witch product, they were believable looking people.

693
00:38:15.760 --> 00:38:20.000
So that's another element of the glossiness and paranormal activity.

694
00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:22.079
Like they even have that which I honestly is almost

695
00:38:22.119 --> 00:38:24.400
like cringey to me. They have that whole scene where

696
00:38:24.440 --> 00:38:28.119
he's like putting the wireless microphone on her, and I

697
00:38:28.159 --> 00:38:30.119
was like, ah, I mean, at least they're trying. Because

698
00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:34.079
that's something that's really important to me with found footageways

699
00:38:34.119 --> 00:38:38.039
is you have to have it be believable everything that's happening. Yes,

700
00:38:38.599 --> 00:38:41.679
So making it believable that we can hear her talking

701
00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:45.159
so clearly and stuff. I get that. I get that,

702
00:38:45.280 --> 00:38:48.480
especially with the technology of that time period, because now

703
00:38:48.559 --> 00:38:51.320
you could, you know, you could just use the on

704
00:38:51.440 --> 00:38:55.280
camera microphone and augment it with you know, algorithms and

705
00:38:55.320 --> 00:38:57.079
AI to make it sound better. But back then, if

706
00:38:57.119 --> 00:38:58.920
you wanted to really hear somebody from the other side

707
00:38:58.960 --> 00:39:00.920
of the room and know they'd be in eligible, you

708
00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:03.679
had to put a wireless microphone on them. There was

709
00:39:03.679 --> 00:39:07.280
no other option at all. Yeah, So but yeah, yeah,

710
00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:09.480
the glossiness I think does take me out of it.

711
00:39:09.639 --> 00:39:14.559
I like, I like when I when I can't the

712
00:39:14.880 --> 00:39:17.679
least amount I could figure out holes in the logic

713
00:39:17.840 --> 00:39:21.199
of the filming, the better. Yes, Like I want it

714
00:39:21.239 --> 00:39:23.800
to be as believable as possible. That you know, this

715
00:39:23.960 --> 00:39:27.000
was just somebody with a camera or whatever, and you know,

716
00:39:27.119 --> 00:39:31.480
having him be a very successful day trader was a

717
00:39:31.480 --> 00:39:34.039
really smart way to excuse why they were filming on

718
00:39:34.079 --> 00:39:37.280
a relatively expensive camera, although an older camera. I mean

719
00:39:37.320 --> 00:39:39.199
they could have filmed on a nicer one. Oh yeah,

720
00:39:39.239 --> 00:39:41.440
but they didn't have the money. Yeah, I mean the

721
00:39:41.480 --> 00:39:44.920
actual money for the production. So but I do like that.

722
00:39:44.960 --> 00:39:47.159
I think that that you know, feeds into like, you know,

723
00:39:47.599 --> 00:39:52.400
guys and their toys. So but yeah, yeah, it is

724
00:39:52.480 --> 00:39:56.079
like Cloverfield has just way a ton of like that

725
00:39:56.159 --> 00:39:58.800
movie's so glossy that there is a part when they

726
00:39:58.840 --> 00:40:00.519
show that I think the first time you kind of

727
00:40:00.519 --> 00:40:02.480
get an inkling of the monster off in the distance.

728
00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:05.320
They grain up the footage a bunch and you actually

729
00:40:05.360 --> 00:40:07.599
notice how grainy the footage is because the movie's just

730
00:40:07.639 --> 00:40:09.079
not that grainy in general.

731
00:40:09.280 --> 00:40:09.800
Yeah.

732
00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:13.039
Yeah, And and paranormal activity, I mean, the other thing they

733
00:40:13.079 --> 00:40:15.519
did that they kind of established this is a new

734
00:40:15.599 --> 00:40:19.880
trope was using the night vision, you know, using which

735
00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:23.320
got way more intense after that from lots of different movies.

736
00:40:23.920 --> 00:40:27.320
But and that stuff became you know, super tropy from

737
00:40:27.360 --> 00:40:29.920
there and night vision and stuff looks wrong, it looks

738
00:40:30.159 --> 00:40:34.119
it's bad. Yeah, as far as like image integrity, yeah,

739
00:40:34.159 --> 00:40:39.519
and that's what makes people like it, you know. So yeah,

740
00:40:39.639 --> 00:40:41.800
I mean it's definitely a gloss difference. I mean, what

741
00:40:41.800 --> 00:40:43.360
do you what do you? What are your thoughts on it?

742
00:40:43.840 --> 00:40:47.280
Well, not only because like I was, you made that

743
00:40:47.360 --> 00:40:49.559
comment last week, so I was kind of keeping it

744
00:40:49.599 --> 00:40:53.079
in mind as we were watching Paranormal Activity.

745
00:40:52.760 --> 00:40:55.559
And because women never forget that when you say something.

746
00:40:55.440 --> 00:41:03.039
That tas like elephants. But I kept it in mind.

747
00:41:03.119 --> 00:41:05.920
And so one thing that I was noticing was like

748
00:41:06.880 --> 00:41:13.079
the lighting was often very imperfect, but that that made

749
00:41:13.079 --> 00:41:17.000
it believable. It made it feel like a guy who's

750
00:41:17.039 --> 00:41:21.039
not a you know, into film.

751
00:41:21.280 --> 00:41:24.719
Yeah, yeah, he's a early hobbyist.

752
00:41:24.800 --> 00:41:27.119
Yeah, he's just doing the best with what he's got,

753
00:41:27.159 --> 00:41:29.519
you know. I love that. And another thing that I

754
00:41:29.599 --> 00:41:33.840
really liked is I do I love the expanse. I

755
00:41:33.920 --> 00:41:39.639
love the urban chaos of Cloverfield, sure, but Paranormal Activity

756
00:41:39.800 --> 00:41:46.960
is so claustrophobic and I feel like that also comes

757
00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:50.639
down to, it's it's not so glossy, it's not so refined.

758
00:41:50.880 --> 00:41:57.599
It's just like being imprisoned in your own home and

759
00:41:57.639 --> 00:42:00.599
all you have is this little camera. No I would

760
00:42:00.599 --> 00:42:01.800
agree to document it.

761
00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:04.440
So one thing I think that paranormal activity really did

762
00:42:04.440 --> 00:42:09.960
well to kind of reinvent the wheel is Before paranormal activity,

763
00:42:10.360 --> 00:42:12.719
I always felt like if you wanted to tell a

764
00:42:12.760 --> 00:42:16.639
really scary found footage story, you pretty much needed to

765
00:42:16.719 --> 00:42:21.199
be almost all in one night, you know, where everything

766
00:42:21.239 --> 00:42:24.280
happens all at once, and it's just a deluge. Now

767
00:42:24.320 --> 00:42:27.039
Blair Witch Project takes place over a couple of days instead,

768
00:42:27.199 --> 00:42:30.679
you know, maybe a week almost, but it's a week

769
00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:32.960
lost in the woods. I feel like that's different. It's

770
00:42:33.119 --> 00:42:36.800
like being at home for a week. But when I

771
00:42:36.840 --> 00:42:39.880
saw paranormal activity, especially after I watched a few more times,

772
00:42:40.639 --> 00:42:43.239
it takes place over like a month or so. Yeah,

773
00:42:43.519 --> 00:42:46.760
And that actually works really well because it leaves you

774
00:42:46.880 --> 00:42:49.559
to fill in the blanks of how things were going

775
00:42:50.280 --> 00:42:54.239
for all that time that we weren't seeing things filmed.

776
00:42:54.320 --> 00:42:58.199
Because while there may not have been much ghost activity

777
00:42:58.719 --> 00:43:02.159
during that period that we or away, they that means

778
00:43:02.159 --> 00:43:06.119
I mean they had you know, dozens of meals together

779
00:43:06.320 --> 00:43:08.280
where who knows what they talked about or how well

780
00:43:08.280 --> 00:43:11.280
they're getting along, who knows how they're sleeping. On the nights,

781
00:43:11.360 --> 00:43:12.760
nothing happens because.

782
00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:14.760
You're waiting for something to happen.

783
00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:17.920
Yeah, yeah, it's still you're having sleep anxiety about it.

784
00:43:18.119 --> 00:43:20.920
So I think that that actually I found that that

785
00:43:20.960 --> 00:43:22.920
made it work. It made it feel more like the

786
00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:27.960
fuse was very, very slowly burning. Yes, And that's something

787
00:43:27.960 --> 00:43:30.400
I've always thought that it did really well because Cloverfield

788
00:43:30.400 --> 00:43:32.280
did a great job of being all in once, you know,

789
00:43:32.360 --> 00:43:34.679
in one night, really good job of that, because that

790
00:43:34.719 --> 00:43:41.039
immediacy really helps push the adrenaline. Yes, but with this film,

791
00:43:41.079 --> 00:43:44.280
it's like it pushed the dread. And I think that

792
00:43:44.280 --> 00:43:47.400
that works really well for it, because you know, the

793
00:43:47.440 --> 00:43:51.000
most important thing in a found footage movie is how

794
00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:56.199
it ends, because why is the footage found? Yeah, that

795
00:43:56.400 --> 00:44:01.559
is super important and almost all, although there are exceptions,

796
00:44:02.320 --> 00:44:05.920
it's not good that the footage is found. It wasn't

797
00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:09.199
found because somebody like forgot it in a rest area.

798
00:44:09.480 --> 00:44:12.719
It's found because everybody's dead or missing or a mixture.

799
00:44:14.159 --> 00:44:16.679
So but that means that, but that alone gives you

800
00:44:16.679 --> 00:44:18.320
a sense of dread from the very beginning, because when

801
00:44:18.320 --> 00:44:19.800
you see, because when you see when you put on

802
00:44:19.800 --> 00:44:21.639
a found footage movie and see somebody like say up

803
00:44:21.679 --> 00:44:25.079
the camera, going, hey, I'm a Paul, like been hearing

804
00:44:25.079 --> 00:44:27.840
some weird stuff and I'm in college, so I need

805
00:44:27.880 --> 00:44:30.039
to like I needed to make a video essay anyway,

806
00:44:30.199 --> 00:44:32.280
like I've always known this way. You're like, Paul's gonna

807
00:44:32.280 --> 00:44:35.480
die horribly, like you already know. Yeah, I just wonder

808
00:44:35.480 --> 00:44:36.320
how and when.

809
00:44:36.639 --> 00:44:39.920
Yeah, like yeah, like you know, I know the destination.

810
00:44:40.280 --> 00:44:43.800
I want to experience the journey or.

811
00:44:43.519 --> 00:44:45.920
Maybe I don't know. I'm afraid of it, but that's

812
00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:48.719
why I'm here. I'm watching it because it's scary. So

813
00:44:49.239 --> 00:44:52.079
that's that's an element that I think they do very

814
00:44:52.199 --> 00:44:55.280
very well, is kind of keeping that dread going. I mean,

815
00:44:55.320 --> 00:44:57.400
and like the Blair Witch Project, I mean literally the

816
00:44:57.480 --> 00:45:00.960
marketing was like they all disappear, their footage is found

817
00:45:01.079 --> 00:45:03.480
years later. Yeah, they even say it, so you don't

818
00:45:03.519 --> 00:45:06.119
even have to assume it. They're telling you like they

819
00:45:06.159 --> 00:45:08.880
disappear and then we find their footage. So you're really

820
00:45:09.079 --> 00:45:12.119
full of dread all through Blair Witch Project. But uh,

821
00:45:12.159 --> 00:45:15.519
we'll take a quick break and uh I'll postulate more

822
00:45:15.760 --> 00:45:19.800
fascinating insights into the found footage genre right after this.

823
00:45:33.119 --> 00:45:36.679
So you've got a lot of experience, Well maybe not

824
00:45:36.760 --> 00:45:39.760
a ton, but you've got more experience than the average

825
00:45:39.800 --> 00:45:44.679
person writing and directing found footage movies.

826
00:45:44.840 --> 00:45:46.800
I would I would call it a lot in the

827
00:45:46.920 --> 00:45:49.320
average person. I think I have. I think I have

828
00:45:49.360 --> 00:45:53.159
more experience than the average filmmaker with making found footage.

829
00:45:53.159 --> 00:45:55.440
We because I mean we did have done what for

830
00:45:56.480 --> 00:45:59.199
I think four features and then the TV series which

831
00:45:59.239 --> 00:46:02.320
I directed two two episodes of and produced the whole shebang.

832
00:46:02.920 --> 00:46:04.840
So do I have a lot of experience with found

833
00:46:04.840 --> 00:46:05.639
footage movies?

834
00:46:06.280 --> 00:46:13.119
So between clover Field and Paranormal Activity, which one do

835
00:46:13.199 --> 00:46:15.159
you think has the stronger script?

836
00:46:16.280 --> 00:46:19.079
See, that's a that's a loaded question. Which are the

837
00:46:19.079 --> 00:46:20.960
best questions to ask when you're on you know, a

838
00:46:20.960 --> 00:46:24.639
show exactly? But that is that's a loaded question because

839
00:46:25.320 --> 00:46:28.280
there are two schools of thought. Which is the better

840
00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:32.000
script or which is the better found footage movie? Okay,

841
00:46:32.519 --> 00:46:35.960
because they're not the same thing, They're not always the

842
00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:40.559
better script. You know scripts. The goal of a script is, well,

843
00:46:41.000 --> 00:46:43.039
people would say, I think somebody would argue, well, the

844
00:46:43.079 --> 00:46:44.360
goal of the script is to make a good movie.

845
00:46:44.360 --> 00:46:46.199
That is not really the case. A script is its

846
00:46:46.199 --> 00:46:48.800
own art form, yeah, and turning a script into a

847
00:46:48.840 --> 00:46:51.719
film is its own art form. That's why they're they're

848
00:46:51.760 --> 00:46:54.360
different jobs. That's why there's a different word. It's not

849
00:46:54.440 --> 00:46:56.920
just writer and that's who made the whole movie. It's writer,

850
00:46:57.000 --> 00:46:59.920
and then there's a director and a producer and they're

851
00:47:00.079 --> 00:47:03.119
that's a skill set. So and the script always changes

852
00:47:03.159 --> 00:47:05.440
a lot, oh yeah, to become a movie. But but

853
00:47:05.480 --> 00:47:08.679
that doesn't mean that. I mean, it's very common and

854
00:47:08.719 --> 00:47:11.440
people will sometimes get crummy about it, and I understand why,

855
00:47:11.719 --> 00:47:14.079
but they'll they'll be mad because they bought my script

856
00:47:14.079 --> 00:47:15.400
and said it was like the best script they ever read,

857
00:47:15.400 --> 00:47:17.840
and then they changed everything when they made the movie.

858
00:47:17.840 --> 00:47:20.280
And it's like, well, sometimes that can be because they're

859
00:47:20.519 --> 00:47:23.360
you know, they're over controlling and they just want to

860
00:47:23.480 --> 00:47:24.960
make it their own and da da da da da.

861
00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:28.239
And sometimes it's because it just doesn't translate. It's solid

862
00:47:28.280 --> 00:47:30.400
on the page and on the screen it just doesn't

863
00:47:30.400 --> 00:47:32.760
make sense. Or it's same thing with adapting a book

864
00:47:32.800 --> 00:47:36.159
to a movie. Yeah. Yeah, it's like there's lots of

865
00:47:36.159 --> 00:47:40.079
elements in movies that don't really work, or elements in

866
00:47:40.119 --> 00:47:42.960
books that don't really work in movies. Yeah, tons of elements,

867
00:47:43.000 --> 00:47:48.159
including insanely expansive storytelling. You know, turning a three hundred

868
00:47:48.159 --> 00:47:50.639
and fifty page book into a ninety minute movie is

869
00:47:50.679 --> 00:47:55.800
a freaking brutal it's stuff in that book. Yeah. So

870
00:47:56.800 --> 00:47:59.360
from a traditional screenwriting standpoint, I mean, you want to

871
00:47:59.360 --> 00:48:02.199
have a beginning, in a middle, and an end. You

872
00:48:02.280 --> 00:48:05.920
want to have a main character that goes through a

873
00:48:06.039 --> 00:48:09.079
journey where there's changes. I mean, like, there are a

874
00:48:09.079 --> 00:48:11.480
lot of elements that are traditionally what you want from

875
00:48:11.480 --> 00:48:15.800
a screenplay to keep it engaging and to optimize storytelling

876
00:48:15.800 --> 00:48:19.280
for that format. Yeah. Yeah, So with that, it probably

877
00:48:19.320 --> 00:48:22.239
would be Cloverfield because I'd almost guarantee Cloverfield had a

878
00:48:22.280 --> 00:48:25.719
more traditional screenplay from the start. Yeah, because it even

879
00:48:25.800 --> 00:48:27.519
as a found footage movie, it comes off more as

880
00:48:27.519 --> 00:48:30.519
a traditional movie. It has a very clear beginning, middle,

881
00:48:30.559 --> 00:48:33.280
and end. It has a very clear kind of attitude

882
00:48:33.320 --> 00:48:35.559
about who are the main characters. Although you know it's

883
00:48:35.559 --> 00:48:37.519
a thriller movie, it's a horror movie, so like it

884
00:48:37.559 --> 00:48:40.400
has people dying and you don't expect it has unexpected

885
00:48:40.400 --> 00:48:45.079
twists and turns, which is necessary. But with Paranormal Activity

886
00:48:45.119 --> 00:48:48.199
it's much more loose, It's much more kind of what

887
00:48:48.360 --> 00:48:50.519
is happening is happening. I mean, it does have decent

888
00:48:50.599 --> 00:48:54.519
pacing and supposedly one of the first things Jason Blum

889
00:48:54.559 --> 00:48:58.719
did when he bought on as a producer on the film,

890
00:48:59.079 --> 00:49:01.400
because he came on after the movie was done. I mean,

891
00:49:01.440 --> 00:49:04.760
Oren Peiley didn't have any connections in show business. In fact,

892
00:49:04.840 --> 00:49:07.719
Jason Blum bought in when he was still at Miramax,

893
00:49:08.039 --> 00:49:12.360
before he'd fund he had fully founded Blumhouse. Wow. So

894
00:49:12.639 --> 00:49:14.480
when he came on, one of the first things he

895
00:49:14.559 --> 00:49:18.599
did was he helped Oren re edit the whole film

896
00:49:18.639 --> 00:49:21.239
because Oren shot it, directed it, edited it, wrote it,

897
00:49:21.280 --> 00:49:23.920
he did it all, you know, he helped him re

898
00:49:24.079 --> 00:49:25.719
edit it to try and make it a stronger film,

899
00:49:25.719 --> 00:49:27.519
and then he got it into sun Dance. That was

900
00:49:27.559 --> 00:49:29.239
like his big contribution initially.

901
00:49:29.719 --> 00:49:30.519
Okay, wow.

902
00:49:30.800 --> 00:49:34.320
So I think that the movie definitely has better pacing

903
00:49:34.400 --> 00:49:37.519
than it probably did when it started out, which is

904
00:49:37.519 --> 00:49:39.280
the thing. I mean, it happens all the time, So

905
00:49:39.360 --> 00:49:41.719
I don't know, I mean, like I think that I

906
00:49:41.719 --> 00:49:44.400
think that, you know, definitely, Paranormal Activity is the better

907
00:49:44.480 --> 00:49:48.280
found footage movie. I think it's the scarier movie. But

908
00:49:49.280 --> 00:49:52.480
from a storytelling standpoint, it is very sparse in many ways.

909
00:49:52.519 --> 00:49:55.159
I mean, it has a lot of good subtlety in it,

910
00:49:55.239 --> 00:49:56.960
but I think a lot of that comes from the

911
00:49:57.000 --> 00:49:59.960
actors improvisation, which is good and I think is better

912
00:50:00.119 --> 00:50:04.800
for the type of you know, the subgenre to have actors.

913
00:50:04.880 --> 00:50:07.559
I mean, they did the thing you do when you're

914
00:50:07.559 --> 00:50:12.280
doing really intensely improvised work, which is the characters are

915
00:50:12.360 --> 00:50:13.400
named after the actors.

916
00:50:13.599 --> 00:50:13.800
Yeah.

917
00:50:14.039 --> 00:50:17.880
Yeah, and that's that's just a very easy trick to

918
00:50:18.000 --> 00:50:20.119
kind of keep things, you know, feeling realistic.

919
00:50:20.239 --> 00:50:25.239
So but what do you think, Well, I agree with

920
00:50:25.280 --> 00:50:30.880
you and disagree with you anyways, dare, which is of

921
00:50:30.920 --> 00:50:35.800
course a cardinal sin. But no, I agree with you

922
00:50:35.880 --> 00:50:39.039
in that if if you were to sit me down

923
00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:46.719
with the script of Cloverfield and the script of Paranormal Activity,

924
00:50:47.440 --> 00:50:52.039
paranormal activity is going to be a really sparse because

925
00:50:52.079 --> 00:50:54.480
it is you know, it is a lot of it

926
00:50:54.880 --> 00:50:57.960
just going on in the background, and it's like even

927
00:50:58.000 --> 00:51:03.480
even like the scene where they set out like the

928
00:51:03.559 --> 00:51:06.840
flower or baby powder or whatever, and then there's just

929
00:51:06.880 --> 00:51:11.519
like those inexplicit, inexplicable footprints that's not going to be

930
00:51:11.639 --> 00:51:15.599
very impressive as a you know, as a script, as

931
00:51:15.599 --> 00:51:21.639
a screenplay. But that being said, the execution is perfect

932
00:51:21.719 --> 00:51:25.199
because like the pacing, Like you said, the pacing is great.

933
00:51:25.760 --> 00:51:33.280
Every scene feeds into the next and informs the rest

934
00:51:33.320 --> 00:51:38.320
of the movie. It establishes the rules very very quickly.

935
00:51:40.119 --> 00:51:43.760
The characters are very you know, very well developed. So

936
00:51:44.360 --> 00:51:50.440
I think that that's kind of like the difference is like,

937
00:51:51.119 --> 00:51:55.360
even if the script itself would be very sparse, I

938
00:51:55.400 --> 00:51:59.400
feel like the execution was so perfectly done. That's why

939
00:51:59.440 --> 00:52:04.039
it's the better found footage movie. Because I think ultimately,

940
00:52:04.639 --> 00:52:08.119
if you were to take both of these movies and

941
00:52:08.719 --> 00:52:13.239
refilm them as just being straight up, you know, horror,

942
00:52:13.559 --> 00:52:17.039
you know, one would be you know, obviously the paranormal horror.

943
00:52:17.079 --> 00:52:19.800
The other one would be like sci fi horror. I

944
00:52:19.880 --> 00:52:26.119
feel like as movies input, clever Field would still be

945
00:52:26.360 --> 00:52:31.119
rather impactful, but I feel that Paranormal Activity would lose

946
00:52:31.360 --> 00:52:35.639
a lot in translation if you were to make it

947
00:52:35.679 --> 00:52:38.679
a more straight regular horror movie.

948
00:52:39.079 --> 00:52:40.559
I would agree with that for sure.

949
00:52:40.760 --> 00:52:44.519
So yeah, yeah, that's that's kind of my thought. And

950
00:52:44.760 --> 00:52:47.119
that also makes me think because I don't have as

951
00:52:47.199 --> 00:52:50.400
much experience with you as you But when we filmed

952
00:52:51.559 --> 00:52:56.000
our show or our episode for found footage the series,

953
00:52:56.440 --> 00:53:00.920
I really realized how much of found footage is improvisation.

954
00:53:01.280 --> 00:53:03.440
Yeah, it's everything.

955
00:53:03.559 --> 00:53:06.519
Yeah, that's something that you really as an audience member,

956
00:53:06.599 --> 00:53:10.440
you don't often think of. But yeah, a lot of

957
00:53:10.480 --> 00:53:14.599
it is just like playing make believe as the actors

958
00:53:14.639 --> 00:53:16.800
and being like, okay, this is what's happening.

959
00:53:16.920 --> 00:53:20.599
Now go it's it's technically the technical term is retroscripting.

960
00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:24.119
Retroscripting it's when you have an outline that is planned

961
00:53:24.159 --> 00:53:27.199
out and uh, and situations to improvise what you are

962
00:53:27.239 --> 00:53:31.599
planned out, but there's no actual script. Yeah, you know,

963
00:53:31.840 --> 00:53:34.599
a easy ways to say we're improving the movie, but

964
00:53:34.679 --> 00:53:37.880
in reality it's it's there's there's a outline that you're

965
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:40.639
scripting it as you go though. Yeah yeah, you know,

966
00:53:40.639 --> 00:53:42.360
but the bullet points are there, which is a lot

967
00:53:42.400 --> 00:53:44.559
easier to work in than literally making it up as

968
00:53:44.559 --> 00:53:47.119
you go. So, uh, but what do you take a

969
00:53:47.159 --> 00:53:50.360
quick break and then uh, I guess we'll keep talking.

970
00:53:50.559 --> 00:53:51.920
I get I guess that's what you do.

971
00:54:07.360 --> 00:54:10.280
So we were before we came back on, we were

972
00:54:10.320 --> 00:54:15.360
discussing that there was a bit of a found footage

973
00:54:15.400 --> 00:54:21.239
boom uh kind of like between blair Witch projects up

974
00:54:21.360 --> 00:54:26.679
until Paranormal Activity, there was quite a lot going on.

975
00:54:27.440 --> 00:54:29.119
Well not quite quite a lot, but.

976
00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:33.639
I I Don'm not familiar. No, there were very few

977
00:54:33.639 --> 00:54:37.000
found footage movies until Paranormal Activity. You said between blair

978
00:54:37.000 --> 00:54:38.280
Witch product and Paranormal Activity.

979
00:54:38.440 --> 00:54:42.400
Sorry, I got myself confused because we were talking about

980
00:54:42.480 --> 00:54:44.119
the timeline before.

981
00:54:44.360 --> 00:54:48.159
You mean you mean post Yeah, when we were off

982
00:54:48.320 --> 00:54:49.800
off break, we were talking about that. I was like,

983
00:54:49.880 --> 00:54:51.760
I don't think that you literally said that.

984
00:54:53.119 --> 00:54:54.119
Got myself confused.

985
00:54:54.280 --> 00:54:57.119
Well, I mean if only the fact that there were sick.

986
00:54:57.159 --> 00:55:00.000
There are six more entries into the Paranormal Activity franchise.

987
00:55:00.400 --> 00:55:04.239
I'm serious. Yeah, yeah, one almost every year. Paranormal Activity

988
00:55:04.239 --> 00:55:07.039
two came out in twenty ten, three, twenty twenty one

989
00:55:07.119 --> 00:55:12.559
or twenty eleven, four, twenty twelve, five and fourteen, Part

990
00:55:12.639 --> 00:55:15.800
six and fifteen, and then oh yeah, Paranormal Activity next

991
00:55:15.800 --> 00:55:18.519
of kin. I don't know if I saw that one.

992
00:55:18.519 --> 00:55:20.000
That one was. I think that one was. It was

993
00:55:20.079 --> 00:55:22.199
during Covidish times. I think that might have went straight

994
00:55:22.239 --> 00:55:24.719
to Paramount Plus. Oh, I can't remember if I watched

995
00:55:24.719 --> 00:55:27.119
that one, but I just found out that they announced

996
00:55:27.920 --> 00:55:31.760
Ian Twissan twiss On is doing Paranormal Activity eight, which

997
00:55:31.760 --> 00:55:34.599
has come out next year. Ian Twissan, I think that's

998
00:55:34.639 --> 00:55:38.119
all you say it or Tuissan Tuyson. He's Canadian, so

999
00:55:38.119 --> 00:55:40.400
I assume that's a French name. That's the guy who

1000
00:55:40.719 --> 00:55:43.360
who wrote and directed The Undertone, which I thought was

1001
00:55:43.400 --> 00:55:46.360
a phenomenal horror movie that came out this year in theaters.

1002
00:55:46.639 --> 00:55:48.599
So that's really exciting. I hope he does great with it.

1003
00:55:48.599 --> 00:55:50.960
The Undertone was not a found footage movie, but it

1004
00:55:51.039 --> 00:55:53.679
had elements of a found footage of being kind of

1005
00:55:53.679 --> 00:55:55.639
found footage. But I mean, so that alone, it's spawned

1006
00:55:55.679 --> 00:55:58.159
all those movies exactly well.

1007
00:55:58.199 --> 00:56:04.000
And you had mentioned in the last episode like reck Yeah,

1008
00:56:04.199 --> 00:56:05.760
you'd mentioned.

1009
00:56:05.760 --> 00:56:09.400
When it was a Spanish movie, Yeah, Spanish movie series.

1010
00:56:10.199 --> 00:56:13.599
And you mentioned like Diary of the Dead.

1011
00:56:14.840 --> 00:56:18.719
But which was George A. Romero's official Night of Living

1012
00:56:18.719 --> 00:56:21.199
Dead sequel that was found footage and had a lot

1013
00:56:21.199 --> 00:56:26.360
of problems. I do enjoy it, but it really suffered

1014
00:56:26.360 --> 00:56:28.639
from the why is this being filmed? How did you

1015
00:56:28.639 --> 00:56:31.480
get this footage? Why is it edited like this? That

1016
00:56:31.599 --> 00:56:32.039
kind of thing.

1017
00:56:32.199 --> 00:56:39.280
Yeah, but how much do you think that was? How

1018
00:56:39.360 --> 00:56:44.039
much do you think that was because of the technology

1019
00:56:44.079 --> 00:56:47.079
that was becoming available, because like you even looked up

1020
00:56:47.119 --> 00:56:51.880
like what camera they you know, used in paranormal activity,

1021
00:56:51.920 --> 00:56:58.599
and like, you know, cam quarters were becoming more you know, eighties, nineties,

1022
00:56:58.960 --> 00:57:01.519
early two thousands, p we're getting camquarterers, but now you're

1023
00:57:01.559 --> 00:57:06.519
getting you know, better technology, you're getting more accessible and cheaper.

1024
00:57:06.599 --> 00:57:08.760
Care well, it was at the same time that filmmaking

1025
00:57:08.840 --> 00:57:12.000
was becoming democratized, which is things were cheaper so that

1026
00:57:12.039 --> 00:57:15.480
you could it. Basically, there were filmmakers in the earliest

1027
00:57:15.519 --> 00:57:17.599
days of film that said that filmmaking would not truly

1028
00:57:17.639 --> 00:57:19.639
be an art medium until it was as affordable as

1029
00:57:19.639 --> 00:57:22.800
a pen and paper. And that's I mean not we're

1030
00:57:22.800 --> 00:57:24.639
not quite there, but at the same time we are

1031
00:57:24.679 --> 00:57:26.320
because like everybody has a phone, and a phone is

1032
00:57:26.320 --> 00:57:28.719
now a camera, so yeah, you actually it's almost cheaper

1033
00:57:29.000 --> 00:57:32.039
in some ways, except because because it's a prerequisite to

1034
00:57:32.039 --> 00:57:35.400
have a phone. But I mean, I think that one

1035
00:57:35.440 --> 00:57:38.440
of the big because not all the not all of

1036
00:57:38.440 --> 00:57:44.880
the found footage boom movies were literally inspired by paranormal activity.

1037
00:57:44.960 --> 00:57:48.599
Some of them just simply became successful because paranormal activity

1038
00:57:48.599 --> 00:57:50.760
was so successful. Wreck is actually a really good example,

1039
00:57:50.880 --> 00:57:53.800
because it came out in seven, okay, and it was

1040
00:57:53.840 --> 00:57:57.239
a huge hit. It did a lot, It did a

1041
00:57:57.280 --> 00:58:00.280
lot of money in Spain and the rest of the world,

1042
00:58:00.920 --> 00:58:04.440
so you know that came earlier. Yeah, and of course

1043
00:58:04.519 --> 00:58:06.800
huge hit when you're a small foreign movie is not

1044
00:58:07.519 --> 00:58:09.599
you know, two hundred million dollars, but it's still a

1045
00:58:09.639 --> 00:58:14.960
lot of money. So you the big reason that that

1046
00:58:15.039 --> 00:58:17.679
found footage movies took off was, yeah, it was affordable

1047
00:58:17.800 --> 00:58:20.760
to create over in Peley had said that the idea

1048
00:58:20.800 --> 00:58:23.320
of not needing a crew made the production simpler and

1049
00:58:23.400 --> 00:58:28.079
cheaper immensely. But that's I mean, that's what it comes

1050
00:58:28.119 --> 00:58:32.079
down to is money first, and then storytelling is is second.

1051
00:58:32.239 --> 00:58:35.079
It's a different type of storytelling that you can if

1052
00:58:35.119 --> 00:58:37.519
you if you lean into it. That's always been my

1053
00:58:37.599 --> 00:58:40.199
methodology with making any kind of movie is if you

1054
00:58:40.199 --> 00:58:42.920
can make the movie you're the story you're telling makes

1055
00:58:42.920 --> 00:58:46.639
sense with what you have to tell it, then you're good. Yeah. Yeah,

1056
00:58:46.719 --> 00:58:48.960
so if you only have eighty bucks, then it should

1057
00:58:48.960 --> 00:58:51.480
probably take place in like two rooms of a house

1058
00:58:51.480 --> 00:58:53.559
that you already have access to. Well, then what's the

1059
00:58:53.559 --> 00:58:55.760
best story you could tell that is limited like that?

1060
00:58:57.000 --> 00:58:59.199
But I will say because you because because you said that,

1061
00:59:00.760 --> 00:59:05.000
I will mention that I think the biggest negative elements

1062
00:59:05.039 --> 00:59:08.400
in Paranormal Activity is the fact that it comes off

1063
00:59:08.440 --> 00:59:12.320
a little over edited. It has a lot of fades,

1064
00:59:12.400 --> 00:59:14.119
especially in the early parts. It has a lot of

1065
00:59:14.159 --> 00:59:16.719
like little fade transitions and stuff that I don't like.

1066
00:59:17.000 --> 00:59:20.199
They take me out of it. And I do think

1067
00:59:20.239 --> 00:59:22.800
that it was a misstep using such an expensive camera,

1068
00:59:24.239 --> 00:59:28.079
I really do. I think that they were afraid that

1069
00:59:28.199 --> 00:59:31.239
if they had used a really cheap handicam that it

1070
00:59:31.280 --> 00:59:34.400
wouldn't have been able to get out there. I think

1071
00:59:35.559 --> 00:59:36.920
there are a lot of found footage movies that use

1072
00:59:36.960 --> 00:59:39.320
like the most expensive camera they can get, and I

1073
00:59:39.360 --> 00:59:43.320
think it always looks slame. That's another thing. So when

1074
00:59:43.320 --> 00:59:47.199
I was saying The Asylum's knockoff paranormal Entity was more scarier,

1075
00:59:47.519 --> 00:59:50.000
they definitely shot that with like an off the shelf

1076
00:59:50.039 --> 00:59:53.159
sony handicam, like shamelessly. They just did. I'm sure they

1077
00:59:53.519 --> 00:59:56.119
they probably I would guarantee they had professional sound, because

1078
00:59:56.679 --> 00:59:58.280
you can say a lot of things about The Asylum,

1079
00:59:58.320 --> 01:00:00.559
but they were always pro I mean they they made

1080
01:00:00.559 --> 01:00:02.920
movies that passed quality control and got released all over

1081
01:00:02.960 --> 01:00:05.519
the world. They knew what they were doing. Yeah, but

1082
01:00:05.559 --> 01:00:07.840
they definitely shot that on like a handicap, and I

1083
01:00:07.880 --> 01:00:11.559
think that I think it for me, Paranormal Activity would

1084
01:00:11.559 --> 01:00:13.119
be even scarier if it had been shot on like

1085
01:00:13.159 --> 01:00:15.079
the cheapest camera you could get a best buy in

1086
01:00:15.119 --> 01:00:16.199
two thousand and seven.

1087
01:00:16.800 --> 01:00:19.400
No, I do, I do have to agree, But it.

1088
01:00:19.400 --> 01:00:21.880
Was still one of the biggest successes ever. So what

1089
01:00:21.920 --> 01:00:24.119
do I know? But I think honestly, I think even

1090
01:00:24.159 --> 01:00:27.119
the sequels, they all look cheaper camera wise. Yeah, I

1091
01:00:27.119 --> 01:00:28.639
mean not just the ones that take place in the

1092
01:00:28.679 --> 01:00:30.280
way in the past, because there's one that's in the

1093
01:00:30.320 --> 01:00:32.920
eighties that I or nineties that I really like. But

1094
01:00:33.880 --> 01:00:36.960
I do. That's my biggest negative is I like found personally.

1095
01:00:37.119 --> 01:00:39.280
I like found footage movies the most when there is

1096
01:00:39.400 --> 01:00:43.480
zero editing suggested, and it's the idea that you're watching

1097
01:00:43.599 --> 01:00:46.239
straight raw footage. So all the cuts are because somebody

1098
01:00:46.239 --> 01:00:49.320
stopped recording, and all the starts are because somebody started recording.

1099
01:00:49.880 --> 01:00:51.719
That doesn't mean that that's always the way you can go,

1100
01:00:51.800 --> 01:00:55.039
and sometimes it's almost impossible to do that. Some of

1101
01:00:55.039 --> 01:00:57.199
my favorite found footage movies, the whole argument is, like

1102
01:00:57.239 --> 01:01:01.079
we compiled this to make to make it clear you

1103
01:01:01.079 --> 01:01:02.880
know what happened. I mean, I think I put that

1104
01:01:02.920 --> 01:01:06.519
in Amityville No Escape, one of one of my my

1105
01:01:06.559 --> 01:01:08.880
favorite found footage movies I've done. I put in there

1106
01:01:08.880 --> 01:01:10.840
that like it would have been put together to contextualize

1107
01:01:10.840 --> 01:01:14.719
the events for legal purposes or something. Yeah, or no, No,

1108
01:01:14.719 --> 01:01:16.280
I think that was Devil's Trail was the one that

1109
01:01:16.320 --> 01:01:18.800
I said that. But yeah, so, I mean, you know,

1110
01:01:19.239 --> 01:01:21.199
the audience is going to know the movies assembled, but

1111
01:01:21.239 --> 01:01:23.880
I try to hide that as much as possible. But

1112
01:01:25.079 --> 01:01:28.639
Paranormal Activity coming along so early, I think that's one

1113
01:01:28.639 --> 01:01:30.119
of the reasons they can get away with that because

1114
01:01:30.159 --> 01:01:33.320
it hadn't the rules air quotes hadn't really been established,

1115
01:01:33.360 --> 01:01:36.039
Like what people are hoping for, what they're expecting from

1116
01:01:36.039 --> 01:01:39.000
found footage movies was pretty minimal. It's basically just like

1117
01:01:39.039 --> 01:01:41.400
Blair Witch Project. And there were other found footage movies

1118
01:01:41.960 --> 01:01:44.480
before Paranormal Activity, for sure, but that was a boom

1119
01:01:44.519 --> 01:01:46.679
after that. I mean, the fact that you could say, hey,

1120
01:01:46.719 --> 01:01:49.039
we made like one of the scariest movies you've ever seen,

1121
01:01:49.119 --> 01:01:51.960
and it made two hundred million dollars and you know,

1122
01:01:52.400 --> 01:01:54.639
we didn't even really know how to make a movie,

1123
01:01:54.679 --> 01:01:58.000
we just did it this style. That's addictive. Hey, yeah,

1124
01:01:58.039 --> 01:01:59.719
I mean, but what I mean, what do you think?

1125
01:01:59.760 --> 01:02:02.480
I mean, I'm guessing probably think similarly, because I don't

1126
01:02:02.519 --> 01:02:04.039
know what other reason there could be.

1127
01:02:04.119 --> 01:02:06.880
Honestly, well, I know, I absolutely agree. I think that,

1128
01:02:07.440 --> 01:02:13.320
you know, on both counts, I feel that giving paranormal

1129
01:02:13.400 --> 01:02:16.960
activity a little more character on screen with a cheaper

1130
01:02:17.000 --> 01:02:21.239
camera would have been a good move. I can understand

1131
01:02:21.280 --> 01:02:26.960
why they didn't, sure, but I any time there is

1132
01:02:27.320 --> 01:02:32.440
on screen a reason for the film to be low fidelity,

1133
01:02:33.840 --> 01:02:37.119
it just adds character to me, and I feel like

1134
01:02:37.199 --> 01:02:42.199
it makes it sells the found footage trope a little

1135
01:02:42.239 --> 01:02:49.039
bit more. And I also agree, like obviously the cameras

1136
01:02:49.119 --> 01:02:54.440
being way more accessible and way cheaper and the democrazation

1137
01:02:54.920 --> 01:03:01.199
democratization of film played into that hugely. But I also

1138
01:03:01.320 --> 01:03:07.639
think that the I mean, obviously the Internet had a

1139
01:03:07.679 --> 01:03:11.599
lot to do with it, because YouTube had been around

1140
01:03:11.639 --> 01:03:16.280
long enough that it was kind of established that you

1141
01:03:16.480 --> 01:03:23.039
can find really interesting or scary videos just out there

1142
01:03:23.400 --> 01:03:28.280
that people have uploaded. And you know, we discussed it

1143
01:03:28.320 --> 01:03:31.800
a little bit last week. But like post nine to eleven,

1144
01:03:32.360 --> 01:03:37.079
there's a lot less trust in the establishment in news.

1145
01:03:37.280 --> 01:03:40.840
There's a lot more you know, us getting our news

1146
01:03:40.880 --> 01:03:43.960
from each other, just like by spreading viral videos. So

1147
01:03:44.039 --> 01:03:48.559
I feel like that culture also kind of was the

1148
01:03:48.679 --> 01:03:54.639
perfect breeding ground to create this artistic medium of bound

1149
01:03:54.679 --> 01:03:56.519
footage the way that we know it today.

1150
01:03:56.960 --> 01:03:59.440
Well, and I also know there's no way I could

1151
01:03:59.480 --> 01:04:01.199
get into it. I mean it would take it would

1152
01:04:01.199 --> 01:04:02.639
take forever, and I would need to do a lot

1153
01:04:02.639 --> 01:04:07.159
of extra research. But in Japan they did an insane

1154
01:04:07.159 --> 01:04:11.239
amount with found footage as well, very early on. Okay,

1155
01:04:11.639 --> 01:04:14.320
So I mean there's an incredible amount of strange and

1156
01:04:14.360 --> 01:04:17.199
fascinating found footage Japanese movies even then from the nineties

1157
01:04:17.199 --> 01:04:20.440
some so uh, they ran with it as well. But

1158
01:04:20.599 --> 01:04:22.440
we're going to take a quick break and then we'll

1159
01:04:22.440 --> 01:04:24.800
talk about whatever we're going to talk about after this.

1160
01:04:38.039 --> 01:04:42.800
So we we already discussed a little bit the less

1161
01:04:43.079 --> 01:04:47.920
is more philosophy in horror, but especially with found footage.

1162
01:04:48.400 --> 01:04:52.760
But toward the like climax of the film is when

1163
01:04:52.800 --> 01:04:57.760
they really start utilizing that to the fullest, because I'd

1164
01:04:57.800 --> 01:05:02.159
already discussed like the foot sept sequence when they lay

1165
01:05:02.199 --> 01:05:07.760
out the baby powder, but that's also when like Katie

1166
01:05:08.800 --> 01:05:14.000
starts like standing over Mika even more and she like

1167
01:05:15.039 --> 01:05:17.440
you know, is just standing there for hours on end,

1168
01:05:17.719 --> 01:05:20.199
and of course the end of the movie, the final

1169
01:05:20.280 --> 01:05:24.000
scene is you know, like her standing there for hours

1170
01:05:24.039 --> 01:05:27.239
and then you know, going downstairs and all that unfolding.

1171
01:05:28.079 --> 01:05:31.800
But as as I was watching it, and as we

1172
01:05:31.800 --> 01:05:36.199
were discussing this whole philosophy, it got me to thinking about, like,

1173
01:05:36.440 --> 01:05:42.480
why why it's so scary to get so like, to

1174
01:05:42.559 --> 01:05:46.679
get so little information in a film. Why the less

1175
01:05:46.760 --> 01:05:53.880
is more philosophy is so effective, and like the movie

1176
01:05:54.079 --> 01:06:00.360
is so strong because it forces you as the viewer

1177
01:06:00.440 --> 01:06:05.239
to be hyper vigilant because there's so little going on

1178
01:06:05.599 --> 01:06:10.400
at any one moment, you're like fixated on the background

1179
01:06:10.440 --> 01:06:14.119
and you're like really trying to hear every little detail,

1180
01:06:14.480 --> 01:06:18.239
and so it's almost like you scare yourself before the

1181
01:06:18.280 --> 01:06:21.679
movie has a chance to Yeah, and so you like

1182
01:06:21.800 --> 01:06:26.519
prime yourself and you become complicit in scaring yourself. And

1183
01:06:27.960 --> 01:06:31.360
are there any Are there any other films that you

1184
01:06:31.440 --> 01:06:35.679
can think of that really did that well for you?

1185
01:06:35.960 --> 01:06:36.679
Oh? God? Yeah.

1186
01:06:37.119 --> 01:06:37.199
No.

1187
01:06:37.960 --> 01:06:41.480
One of the most polarizing films of the last twenty

1188
01:06:41.559 --> 01:06:45.599
or thirty or maybe even forty years, which is Skinnamernc.

1189
01:06:46.400 --> 01:06:48.519
You've mentioned skinnam Rink to me before.

1190
01:06:48.599 --> 01:06:52.800
Skinamer Ink is legitimately the most polarizing film I can

1191
01:06:52.840 --> 01:06:55.800
think of in the horror genre. People either think it

1192
01:06:55.880 --> 01:07:00.760
is literally so boring it's insulting, not just but like

1193
01:07:00.840 --> 01:07:05.159
that it's insulting, that it's so meaningless, or they think

1194
01:07:05.199 --> 01:07:09.400
it's really friggin scary. I am in the friggin scary camp.

1195
01:07:09.800 --> 01:07:13.039
I think that it is a It is a very

1196
01:07:13.079 --> 01:07:17.920
fascinating movie to watch. Very little happens, but the atmosphere

1197
01:07:18.039 --> 01:07:20.760
is so thick. I mean, you couldn't You couldn't cut

1198
01:07:20.760 --> 01:07:22.639
it with a knife unless the knife was damn sharp.

1199
01:07:23.719 --> 01:07:27.119
It's it's really the atmosphere is insanely thick. I found

1200
01:07:27.199 --> 01:07:30.840
the movie to be almost subconsciously affecting. And I'm not

1201
01:07:30.880 --> 01:07:33.199
saying that that's like the filmmakers are so genius, they

1202
01:07:33.719 --> 01:07:36.920
knew what they were doing exactly. But that movie reminds

1203
01:07:36.960 --> 01:07:40.400
me of being a child and sneaking around my house

1204
01:07:40.440 --> 01:07:43.239
at night when everybody's asleep because I'm just a little

1205
01:07:43.320 --> 01:07:49.519
friggin goblin. And that movie, because so little happens, you

1206
01:07:49.599 --> 01:07:54.679
are constantly your eyes are searching the screen for because

1207
01:07:54.719 --> 01:07:58.239
something does things do happen. Well, some people claim literally

1208
01:07:58.280 --> 01:08:00.719
nothing happens, but you know, because they're mad, like and

1209
01:08:00.840 --> 01:08:03.119
if you don't like it, that's fine. But I when

1210
01:08:03.159 --> 01:08:06.639
I sat down and watched it, I remember I was

1211
01:08:06.679 --> 01:08:09.679
watching it with my buddy Dave, and we were kind

1212
01:08:09.679 --> 01:08:11.840
of like on the fence about whether we cared or

1213
01:08:11.880 --> 01:08:13.280
not because we missed it in the theater so I

1214
01:08:13.280 --> 01:08:17.119
had to rent it at home. But then about ten

1215
01:08:17.159 --> 01:08:19.960
minutes in it just something about it just got us.

1216
01:08:20.000 --> 01:08:21.399
It just pulled us in because I remember at one

1217
01:08:21.439 --> 01:08:24.760
point we both put our phones away entirely because we're like,

1218
01:08:24.800 --> 01:08:26.319
oh man, we got to pay attention if we want

1219
01:08:26.319 --> 01:08:28.159
to get this, like, we got to really pay attention.

1220
01:08:28.600 --> 01:08:30.800
And it like almost puts you in like a fugue

1221
01:08:30.840 --> 01:08:33.520
state in some ways because you're staring at the screen

1222
01:08:33.560 --> 01:08:36.279
and it's super grainy. It's not found footage. I mean,

1223
01:08:36.279 --> 01:08:39.279
it's a it's no, it's a it's a narrative feature.

1224
01:08:39.920 --> 01:08:43.039
But it's super grainy because everything is so low light.

1225
01:08:43.600 --> 01:08:45.720
And I swear, and I may just be insane, but

1226
01:08:45.760 --> 01:08:52.880
I swear the the the texture of the grain on

1227
01:08:52.920 --> 01:08:57.880
the screen almost starts writhing because you stare at it

1228
01:08:57.920 --> 01:08:59.880
for so long it starts. I don't know if it

1229
01:08:59.880 --> 01:09:02.479
was just my eyes or if that was actually on purpose,

1230
01:09:03.039 --> 01:09:05.119
but like it started to feel like the screen was

1231
01:09:05.159 --> 01:09:07.920
almost like breathing, like it was just all moving because

1232
01:09:07.920 --> 01:09:11.000
I started because you're staring at these these grain patterns,

1233
01:09:11.079 --> 01:09:15.720
which is what happens when video boosts brightness. You're just

1234
01:09:15.760 --> 01:09:19.000
staring at these grains, moving and moving and moving. And

1235
01:09:19.000 --> 01:09:20.600
they kind of moved the same way over and over

1236
01:09:20.640 --> 01:09:24.439
again when nothing's really happening on screen, and I found

1237
01:09:24.439 --> 01:09:26.239
myself staring up to the point where they felt like

1238
01:09:26.279 --> 01:09:28.399
they were starting to look like other things. To me,

1239
01:09:28.720 --> 01:09:31.920
it was like hypnotic is the word. And I found

1240
01:09:31.960 --> 01:09:34.239
the movie really unsettling and creepy. I watched it. I've

1241
01:09:34.279 --> 01:09:37.880
watched it twice and both times I loved it. But

1242
01:09:37.960 --> 01:09:40.159
I know people who I mean, they think it is

1243
01:09:40.239 --> 01:09:43.279
literally like like it was an insult to say, like,

1244
01:09:43.319 --> 01:09:46.119
hey watch this, it's scary, and then it's it's just

1245
01:09:46.199 --> 01:09:48.600
a living room. That's That's one of the memes was

1246
01:09:48.640 --> 01:09:52.039
just people saying like, uh, skinn a marink fans in

1247
01:09:52.079 --> 01:09:54.680
a theater and then it just it just shows a

1248
01:09:54.680 --> 01:09:56.640
shot of an empty living room and then all cheering

1249
01:09:56.680 --> 01:10:01.960
like crazy. So but I thought it was really sincerely scary.

1250
01:10:02.000 --> 01:10:03.640
It's one I've been meaning to show you for a

1251
01:10:03.680 --> 01:10:07.399
couple of years. It is. It's weird, and it's off putting,

1252
01:10:07.399 --> 01:10:09.800
and you have to be one hundred percent in to

1253
01:10:09.960 --> 01:10:13.359
get anything from it, you really do. And I loved

1254
01:10:13.359 --> 01:10:15.520
that because I had to focus on it so intently

1255
01:10:15.600 --> 01:10:17.119
to get something from it, and then I got so

1256
01:10:17.239 --> 01:10:19.960
much from it. A lot of people did not, but

1257
01:10:20.039 --> 01:10:22.279
I did so No. I think that's like the best

1258
01:10:22.319 --> 01:10:25.359
example of there's there's so little there, but what you

1259
01:10:25.399 --> 01:10:27.800
get does really mess with you. I mean, things do

1260
01:10:27.880 --> 01:10:33.399
happen the space you're in, and that movie changes and shifts,

1261
01:10:33.439 --> 01:10:35.279
and you really have to pay attention to notice when

1262
01:10:35.319 --> 01:10:38.000
it happens, because if you if you miss something, which

1263
01:10:38.039 --> 01:10:40.199
you will if you miss something, then all of a sudden,

1264
01:10:40.239 --> 01:10:42.640
it feels like everything's changing all at once. But then

1265
01:10:42.640 --> 01:10:44.199
when you watch it a second time, you're like, oh,

1266
01:10:44.239 --> 01:10:47.640
it's been happening this whole time. Oh, So I liked it.

1267
01:10:47.680 --> 01:10:48.239
I liked it a lot.

1268
01:10:48.319 --> 01:10:50.199
Yeah that sounds really creepy. Okay, we're going to have

1269
01:10:50.239 --> 01:10:50.640
to watch that.

1270
01:10:50.720 --> 01:10:52.239
Yeah, skinn a Marine is a good one. That's what

1271
01:10:52.279 --> 01:10:54.720
I've been debating doing on the show. But I was like,

1272
01:10:54.760 --> 01:10:57.079
I don't know if I if I want to avoid

1273
01:10:57.079 --> 01:10:59.039
the haters or I want to dab on the haters.

1274
01:11:00.119 --> 01:11:04.000
But for me, that's like one hundred percent a great

1275
01:11:04.079 --> 01:11:07.159
example of Less is More, a phenomenal example. And maybe

1276
01:11:07.199 --> 01:11:10.960
I'm crazy and it really is stupid and pointless, but

1277
01:11:11.000 --> 01:11:13.960
I still got entertained, so I won. You know, like

1278
01:11:14.039 --> 01:11:16.439
at the end of the day, Yeah, but do you

1279
01:11:16.479 --> 01:11:18.640
have a film that you feel is like the most

1280
01:11:18.720 --> 01:11:22.319
less is More kind of personified, like it does the

1281
01:11:22.359 --> 01:11:25.239
best job of or benefits the most from Less is More?

1282
01:11:25.960 --> 01:11:28.439
Well, mine is now going to be a cop out

1283
01:11:28.640 --> 01:11:31.199
because I was just going to say Digging Up the Marrow,

1284
01:11:31.640 --> 01:11:35.159
because there's so many instances like you and I both

1285
01:11:35.159 --> 01:11:39.560
had very similar experiences watching that movie because you told

1286
01:11:39.640 --> 01:11:42.079
me how scary it was, so I went and watched

1287
01:11:42.079 --> 01:11:46.119
it on my own one time, and you know, about

1288
01:11:46.119 --> 01:11:48.159
halfway through the movie, I had to like turn it

1289
01:11:48.199 --> 01:11:50.119
off and take a minute, Like turn on the line

1290
01:11:50.239 --> 01:11:51.359
was the first jump scary?

1291
01:11:51.479 --> 01:11:55.319
Yeah, because it lands so hard and you're really not

1292
01:11:55.439 --> 01:11:57.199
ready And I don't know how you're not ready. It

1293
01:11:57.199 --> 01:11:59.199
feels when I remember it. I'm like, it seems so

1294
01:11:59.239 --> 01:12:02.600
obvious that was coming, but it really hit hard. Yeah,

1295
01:12:02.680 --> 01:12:05.680
that's a that's a really solid one with that movie.

1296
01:12:06.239 --> 01:12:07.680
I love digging up the Bear. I do that on

1297
01:12:07.720 --> 01:12:11.880
the show, but we will soon. But it has a lot,

1298
01:12:12.119 --> 01:12:15.760
It has celebrities, it has major special effects. Although they

1299
01:12:15.800 --> 01:12:17.800
did a good job of doing a bad job with

1300
01:12:17.840 --> 01:12:18.479
the special.

1301
01:12:18.239 --> 01:12:21.479
Effects, yeah, which so much so that they even joke about.

1302
01:12:21.239 --> 01:12:24.079
It, you should have lit it better, which is hilarious

1303
01:12:24.119 --> 01:12:25.720
because like, the first thing you should do in a

1304
01:12:25.720 --> 01:12:28.000
found footage thing is like do a bad job. And

1305
01:12:28.000 --> 01:12:30.760
then Kane Hodter famous playing Jason, makes funs like, oh

1306
01:12:30.800 --> 01:12:34.479
so this is found footage, which I thought was pretty fun.

1307
01:12:34.960 --> 01:12:36.760
But that's why I said it's it's totally a cop

1308
01:12:36.800 --> 01:12:39.840
out because it is such a more is more kind.

1309
01:12:39.600 --> 01:12:42.119
Of movie in some ways, but then the scares are

1310
01:12:42.159 --> 01:12:44.880
absolutely less is less in every way or less is

1311
01:12:44.880 --> 01:12:46.880
more in every way. Yeah, but we'll take a quick

1312
01:12:46.920 --> 01:12:50.600
break and pick each other's brains even more vigorously and

1313
01:12:50.680 --> 01:13:05.800
violently right after this. So we've dug around, and we've

1314
01:13:05.880 --> 01:13:08.640
rooted around in this whole realm of found footage horror,

1315
01:13:08.680 --> 01:13:11.079
and I do That's why I'm enjoying that we keep

1316
01:13:11.119 --> 01:13:14.000
diving into more and more found footage movies because there's

1317
01:13:14.000 --> 01:13:16.119
so much to talk about, Like I feel like we're

1318
01:13:16.119 --> 01:13:18.039
never really running out of things to talk about in

1319
01:13:18.079 --> 01:13:20.800
the genre, as well as the movies themselves. Yeah, so

1320
01:13:20.880 --> 01:13:24.279
let's talk about the cream of the crop, the creme

1321
01:13:24.279 --> 01:13:28.319
de la creme. The biggest element of this movie that

1322
01:13:29.079 --> 01:13:31.399
is everything to it, and that is the ending in

1323
01:13:31.439 --> 01:13:34.239
the last five to ten minutes. Because when you watch

1324
01:13:34.239 --> 01:13:36.439
those commercials and those trailers where they show the people

1325
01:13:36.479 --> 01:13:38.880
for you out, they're all reacting to the ending because

1326
01:13:38.920 --> 01:13:43.199
there aren't a lot of big scares in Paranormal Activity,

1327
01:13:43.239 --> 01:13:45.119
and that's fine. Yeah, yeah, though I can't wait to

1328
01:13:45.119 --> 01:13:47.119
show you Paranormal Entity because it has a couple of

1329
01:13:47.159 --> 01:13:49.720
big scares that, like, I remember the first time I

1330
01:13:49.720 --> 01:13:51.800
was watching it, there was one scare went nope, like

1331
01:13:52.119 --> 01:13:55.800
it really hit me hard. So anyway, so let's talk

1332
01:13:55.800 --> 01:13:59.359
about the ending. You know, all this paranormal stuff is escalating.

1333
01:14:00.079 --> 01:14:02.039
At one point, they call the psychic back in and

1334
01:14:02.079 --> 01:14:04.800
he walks in and immediately goes, whoa, whoa, whoa, I

1335
01:14:04.840 --> 01:14:06.399
should not be in here. And that was a great

1336
01:14:06.399 --> 01:14:09.239
one too, because I the last time he had been there,

1337
01:14:09.359 --> 01:14:11.000
the last time I'd watched the movie, I got the

1338
01:14:11.039 --> 01:14:12.920
sense he was afraid for his own safety, But this

1339
01:14:12.960 --> 01:14:14.920
time around, I was like, no, he's afraid for their safety.

1340
01:14:15.039 --> 01:14:16.880
Yeah, he's kind of like you should have brought me here.

1341
01:14:17.079 --> 01:14:20.560
He's mad, I'm agitating it, so I'm going to leave, Like,

1342
01:14:20.880 --> 01:14:21.359
I will.

1343
01:14:21.199 --> 01:14:23.039
Call you when I'm in the driveway so I can

1344
01:14:23.079 --> 01:14:24.239
give you further instruction.

1345
01:14:24.359 --> 01:14:26.279
Yeah. Yeah, So I thought that all was really cool.

1346
01:14:26.359 --> 01:14:30.279
And there was the epic scene with the Ouiji board

1347
01:14:30.399 --> 01:14:32.800
catching on fire but then having no scorch marks later

1348
01:14:33.000 --> 01:14:33.680
and stuff.

1349
01:14:33.960 --> 01:14:38.399
And they fo Yeah, Mika finds the photograph, the burned

1350
01:14:38.439 --> 01:14:40.560
up photograph of her up in the attic, and it

1351
01:14:40.640 --> 01:14:42.960
was supposed to be burned in a fire from when

1352
01:14:42.960 --> 01:14:43.800
she was like thirteen.

1353
01:14:43.920 --> 01:14:45.640
And that's the big thing they keep pushing, is this

1354
01:14:45.720 --> 01:14:47.600
idea that there was a fire when she was younger,

1355
01:14:47.600 --> 01:14:50.319
and that's kind of where this all started. But obviously,

1356
01:14:50.359 --> 01:14:53.640
and rightfully so, it's not fully explained, because that would

1357
01:14:53.760 --> 01:14:56.000
negate the point of it being a found footage movie,

1358
01:14:56.239 --> 01:14:58.680
which is that not everything gets explained. And that is

1359
01:14:58.720 --> 01:15:00.840
the problem I have would later seek is they sometimes

1360
01:15:00.880 --> 01:15:03.319
try to make it make too much sense. Okay, Yeah,

1361
01:15:03.359 --> 01:15:07.119
but I do appreciate the creativity. Yeah, because they're not unrelated.

1362
01:15:07.399 --> 01:15:10.479
They're not unrelated movies. They end up being related, all

1363
01:15:10.520 --> 01:15:14.079
of them do evally. Yeah. Yeah. But so now we're

1364
01:15:14.079 --> 01:15:16.199
we're in the point now where I mean, we've seen

1365
01:15:16.279 --> 01:15:20.479
the talcum powder footprints, and we've seen the Scared Psychic,

1366
01:15:20.560 --> 01:15:23.399
and we've seen the you know, all of this stuff.

1367
01:15:23.920 --> 01:15:26.920
Their relationship is fraid as hell, but they're really trying

1368
01:15:26.960 --> 01:15:28.760
to stick it out together. There are a couple of

1369
01:15:28.760 --> 01:15:31.000
really sweet scenes where like they're getting back into bed

1370
01:15:31.000 --> 01:15:33.159
and you know, she cuddles up with him because it's

1371
01:15:33.159 --> 01:15:35.640
clear she doesn't hate him, she's just scared as shit. Yeah,

1372
01:15:35.720 --> 01:15:38.359
you know, and he's scared too. But then we get

1373
01:15:38.399 --> 01:15:42.880
to kind of the notorious thing the last night. Yeah.

1374
01:15:42.920 --> 01:15:47.520
Well, so Mika had initially been suggesting, like, let's get

1375
01:15:47.520 --> 01:15:50.840
out of here, let's go to a hotel. Yeah, and

1376
01:15:50.840 --> 01:15:54.880
and and Katie was about it at first, and then

1377
01:15:55.640 --> 01:15:59.600
as things progress and things starts happening, she's like, no, actually,

1378
01:16:00.079 --> 01:16:02.960
I don't think there is any escape. We should just

1379
01:16:02.960 --> 01:16:03.439
stay here.

1380
01:16:03.680 --> 01:16:05.720
Yeah. And they had been they had been saying that

1381
01:16:05.960 --> 01:16:08.000
if they left, it would probably just make it angrier.

1382
01:16:08.279 --> 01:16:14.199
Yeah. So they try to go to bed and you know,

1383
01:16:14.279 --> 01:16:18.960
set up the camera just like normal, and as has

1384
01:16:19.039 --> 01:16:25.239
been getting more and more frequent, around midnight, Katie gets

1385
01:16:25.359 --> 01:16:32.399
up out of bed and stands there menacingly for hours

1386
01:16:32.439 --> 01:16:36.439
and hours and hours, and then around like three three am,

1387
01:16:36.640 --> 01:16:41.000
she goes downstairs and the footage goes back to normal

1388
01:16:41.119 --> 01:16:45.520
and she starts screaming bloody murder.

1389
01:16:45.840 --> 01:16:47.039
Well she leaves the room.

1390
01:16:47.239 --> 01:16:50.079
Yeah yeah, because she goes downstairs, you can't see her anymore.

1391
01:16:50.199 --> 01:16:52.520
Yeah, yeah, so we're hearing her from from outside. Yeah, yeah.

1392
01:16:52.600 --> 01:16:56.840
Yeah. So Mika wakes up, bolts up out of bed,

1393
01:16:57.000 --> 01:17:00.199
runs downstairs, and then we hear him screaming, and we

1394
01:17:00.239 --> 01:17:03.000
hear like a scuffle. We hear, you know, some kind

1395
01:17:03.000 --> 01:17:06.760
of altercation, and then it goes silent, and then we

1396
01:17:06.840 --> 01:17:13.119
hear thot thud, and it gets louder and it's footsteps

1397
01:17:13.119 --> 01:17:19.359
coming up the stairs, and then the footsteps stop and

1398
01:17:19.399 --> 01:17:24.600
then Mika's body just gets hurled across the room, you know,

1399
01:17:24.760 --> 01:17:27.399
crashes in front of straight to the cameras, crashes in

1400
01:17:27.399 --> 01:17:32.800
front of the camera. Katie thuds up the stairs and

1401
01:17:33.039 --> 01:17:38.199
into frame, and her shirt is just covered in blood,

1402
01:17:38.720 --> 01:17:41.920
walks up to Mika's body, leans down and like it

1403
01:17:41.960 --> 01:17:45.840
looks like sniffing it or something like, and then looks

1404
01:17:45.880 --> 01:17:49.560
at the camera and grins all demonically, and.

1405
01:17:49.520 --> 01:17:52.000
They kind of her face to make it like creepier,

1406
01:17:52.439 --> 01:17:54.239
which is a little cheesy, but I like.

1407
01:17:54.640 --> 01:17:55.319
It's a good touch.

1408
01:17:56.560 --> 01:18:00.880
And then she just goes at the camera. It kills

1409
01:18:00.880 --> 01:18:03.359
the camera, yep. And then we and then I believe,

1410
01:18:03.399 --> 01:18:06.199
we get informed that she was never found. Everybody found,

1411
01:18:06.199 --> 01:18:10.159
that she's still missing. Yeah, and I don't hate that ending.

1412
01:18:10.199 --> 01:18:12.279
I think it works pretty well. I know that Steven

1413
01:18:12.319 --> 01:18:14.039
Spielberg was one of the people who kind of pushed

1414
01:18:14.039 --> 01:18:15.439
for that ending, a little bit more of a crowd

1415
01:18:15.479 --> 01:18:19.119
pleasing ending. The alternate ending that people that that they

1416
01:18:19.199 --> 01:18:23.479
also did not including the original ending, yeah, was the

1417
01:18:23.479 --> 01:18:25.680
one where it's all that same stuff, except she slits

1418
01:18:25.680 --> 01:18:27.880
her throat At the end, she walks up holding the

1419
01:18:27.960 --> 01:18:30.399
knife that she killed him with and slits her throat.

1420
01:18:30.399 --> 01:18:33.239
I actually think that's a better ending, But when you

1421
01:18:33.279 --> 01:18:36.520
see the sequels, you'll prefer that she doesn't die because reasons.

1422
01:18:37.720 --> 01:18:39.880
But the original ending, which I had not seen until

1423
01:18:39.880 --> 01:18:41.800
we watched it together, I thought I had seen the

1424
01:18:41.800 --> 01:18:45.960
original ending is way more involved. After he's dead, she

1425
01:18:46.039 --> 01:18:49.439
comes up the stairs. She does have a knife and

1426
01:18:49.880 --> 01:18:54.039
she's covered in blood, and then she sits there and like, well,

1427
01:18:54.039 --> 01:18:55.880
she stiffs him, doesn't she still or is that none

1428
01:18:55.880 --> 01:18:56.880
in that part? I can't remember.

1429
01:18:57.039 --> 01:18:59.000
I don't. We don't see his dead body in the

1430
01:18:59.319 --> 01:19:02.920
original totally, which I like that.

1431
01:19:03.640 --> 01:19:05.680
I like that a ton that we don't get that.

1432
01:19:06.199 --> 01:19:07.960
But so she comes up with the knife near the

1433
01:19:07.960 --> 01:19:09.960
camera and then she just sits and rocks back and forth,

1434
01:19:10.000 --> 01:19:11.880
and they do the gag, but this time she rocks

1435
01:19:11.880 --> 01:19:13.880
back and forth into the daytime.

1436
01:19:15.039 --> 01:19:19.840
She gets her friend yet like where are you? We

1437
01:19:19.920 --> 01:19:20.880
haven't heard from you?

1438
01:19:21.159 --> 01:19:23.760
And then the sister shows up, and I believe the

1439
01:19:23.800 --> 01:19:26.479
sister shows up and you hear her like freak out,

1440
01:19:26.520 --> 01:19:29.600
but I'm pretty sure that that uh the main character.

1441
01:19:29.640 --> 01:19:32.000
She doesn't leave the room, though, so something else gets her,

1442
01:19:32.439 --> 01:19:35.199
we don't know what. And then even longer the police

1443
01:19:35.199 --> 01:19:38.239
show up, and the big gag there is that she

1444
01:19:38.319 --> 01:19:40.239
finally stands up the thinking and she starts selling Meka

1445
01:19:40.279 --> 01:19:42.399
because she thinks maybe Mika is there, and it's the cops.

1446
01:19:42.560 --> 01:19:45.159
She's holding the knife. They shoot her. Yeah, and that's

1447
01:19:45.199 --> 01:19:47.520
the ending. The original original.

1448
01:19:47.239 --> 01:19:52.039
Ending, and we watched, we watched all the endings, and

1449
01:19:52.479 --> 01:19:55.399
it does draw out.

1450
01:19:55.000 --> 01:19:57.119
But it's a bit said.

1451
01:19:57.199 --> 01:20:01.720
As far as explaining why you found the found footage

1452
01:20:01.760 --> 01:20:04.760
the way you did, I think that explains it the best.

1453
01:20:05.039 --> 01:20:07.600
I would agree. Well, I mean her killing herself would

1454
01:20:07.600 --> 01:20:10.520
also explain it. Yeah, but no, I mean, it's not

1455
01:20:10.560 --> 01:20:13.720
a terrible ending by any stretch. It's a very interesting, involved,

1456
01:20:13.760 --> 01:20:18.520
realistic ending in many ways. And I like that. I mean,

1457
01:20:18.560 --> 01:20:21.600
I like that she leaves the room and screams. I

1458
01:20:21.600 --> 01:20:23.920
think that that makes a ton of sense because at

1459
01:20:23.920 --> 01:20:26.399
that point, I think it's clear that we're dealing with possession.

1460
01:20:27.840 --> 01:20:31.439
So sorry, Rachel and her scary, her scary affirmation sounds,

1461
01:20:34.319 --> 01:20:37.039
but I think we're you know, we're dealing with that.

1462
01:20:37.680 --> 01:20:40.039
So she leaves the room and starts screaming because this

1463
01:20:40.399 --> 01:20:42.720
spirit knows, or this entity or whatever knows that it

1464
01:20:42.760 --> 01:20:46.439
will draw Micah to her, so then you know, it

1465
01:20:46.520 --> 01:20:50.600
can kill draw him out. So I think that all works.

1466
01:20:51.119 --> 01:20:53.600
It all works really well. I like the official ending.

1467
01:20:55.000 --> 01:20:57.239
I think all the endings are fine. Yeah, but you know,

1468
01:20:57.279 --> 01:20:59.560
and endings are hard, so but I like that one.

1469
01:21:00.159 --> 01:21:04.159
No, I agree, I think it's good and of all

1470
01:21:04.199 --> 01:21:07.399
the endings, I do see why they went with the

1471
01:21:07.439 --> 01:21:11.560
crowd pleading pleasing ending. I think it does end it

1472
01:21:11.840 --> 01:21:16.720
on kind of the perfect note to pull together that story.

1473
01:21:18.399 --> 01:21:23.600
I just yeah, for me personally, the ending where she

1474
01:21:23.720 --> 01:21:26.399
just sits there and rocks back and forth, and I

1475
01:21:26.479 --> 01:21:31.000
think that just explains found footage the best. I would agree.

1476
01:21:31.000 --> 01:21:33.279
That's my two cents, But what do I know?

1477
01:21:33.680 --> 01:21:35.800
That's fair? That's also fair. Well, we're going to take

1478
01:21:35.800 --> 01:21:37.760
a quick break and we'll wrap things up talk about

1479
01:21:37.760 --> 01:21:40.199
our final thoughts on paranormal activity and what we're going

1480
01:21:40.279 --> 01:21:55.560
to be talking about next time. Right after this, Rachel,

1481
01:21:56.159 --> 01:22:01.479
what is your final verdict in so far of your

1482
01:22:01.479 --> 01:22:04.479
found footage Ouvra When it comes to paranormal activity.

1483
01:22:06.840 --> 01:22:12.840
I'm gonna say, strictly for found footage films, I'm going

1484
01:22:12.920 --> 01:22:17.319
to rate it as being a stronger found footage than Cloverfield. Okay,

1485
01:22:17.840 --> 01:22:21.319
obviously I still have a soft spot in my heart

1486
01:22:21.359 --> 01:22:24.319
for Cloverfield, but I am going to say, as far

1487
01:22:24.359 --> 01:22:29.199
as monster movies go, I still like clover Field very much.

1488
01:22:29.319 --> 01:22:33.319
I feel like a lot of the since we did Cloverfield,

1489
01:22:33.319 --> 01:22:35.000
a lot of this has been me saying nothing mean

1490
01:22:35.039 --> 01:22:37.880
about Cloverfield, and then you defending Cloverfield fervently.

1491
01:22:39.039 --> 01:22:42.479
Fair enough, I'm just so used to people hating on

1492
01:22:42.560 --> 01:22:43.239
it so much.

1493
01:22:43.319 --> 01:22:46.319
Well fair enough, I guess, but no, But I mean

1494
01:22:46.319 --> 01:22:48.199
what I wasn't saying just to Cloverfield, I mean, like

1495
01:22:48.199 --> 01:22:50.279
to found footage in general. Is it because Cloverfield's your

1496
01:22:50.279 --> 01:22:51.399
favorite found footage movie?

1497
01:22:52.359 --> 01:22:58.520
Partially because Cloverfield was my first introduction to found footage? Sure, so, uh,

1498
01:22:58.920 --> 01:23:02.159
for better or worse, it is kind of the yardstick

1499
01:23:02.279 --> 01:23:07.560
upon which all other found footage is measured. But also

1500
01:23:07.600 --> 01:23:10.800
because clever Field, you know, we watched it recently, so

1501
01:23:10.840 --> 01:23:12.760
it's kind of the one that I can give the

1502
01:23:12.800 --> 01:23:19.600
best comparison contrast too. As far as like, of all

1503
01:23:19.920 --> 01:23:24.479
of the found footage films that I've seen, I'm gonna,

1504
01:23:24.680 --> 01:23:26.640
you know, on a scale of one to ten, I'm

1505
01:23:26.640 --> 01:23:31.720
gonna say that Paranormal Activity is like a good eighth. Yeah,

1506
01:23:31.960 --> 01:23:34.479
it's pretty high up there on the list. I feel

1507
01:23:34.479 --> 01:23:39.359
like it ticks all of the boxes, or the vast

1508
01:23:39.439 --> 01:23:43.359
majority of the boxes that there could be for found footage.

1509
01:23:43.560 --> 01:23:46.199
Okay, I would not rank it that high actually, really,

1510
01:23:46.279 --> 01:23:48.039
I mean, I like the movie, but I don't think

1511
01:23:48.079 --> 01:23:49.520
it's one of the best. I think that it. It

1512
01:23:50.279 --> 01:23:52.079
did a really good job and it got out there,

1513
01:23:52.119 --> 01:23:54.119
and I don't think it's bad by any stretch. But

1514
01:23:54.159 --> 01:23:58.760
I think there's so many, like really great, intense scary

1515
01:23:58.840 --> 01:24:02.720
found footage movies that are like a non stop terror ride,

1516
01:24:02.720 --> 01:24:04.920
and this one is still good. But it's not that.

1517
01:24:05.760 --> 01:24:07.920
Well, that's fair, No, it is not that yet, I would.

1518
01:24:08.880 --> 01:24:11.760
I really like Paranormal Act. I'm constantly defending it actually

1519
01:24:11.800 --> 01:24:12.239
to people.

1520
01:24:13.079 --> 01:24:19.000
I would see, I would characterize paranormal activity is most

1521
01:24:19.079 --> 01:24:24.520
characterized by dread and not abject terror, so I can

1522
01:24:24.560 --> 01:24:26.119
see there's a difference there.

1523
01:24:26.199 --> 01:24:28.079
Oh. I mean, I don't think there's any harm in

1524
01:24:28.840 --> 01:24:30.920
you liking it that much or anything like that or

1525
01:24:31.000 --> 01:24:32.840
ranking it that high. It's just yeah, I would, I

1526
01:24:32.880 --> 01:24:35.279
would rank other ones higher. But I still think it

1527
01:24:35.600 --> 01:24:39.880
deserves its, you know, its stance as a poohba not

1528
01:24:39.880 --> 01:24:41.680
maybe not a granddaddy of them all, but you know,

1529
01:24:41.920 --> 01:24:44.119
it's up there, uncle of them all, you know, or

1530
01:24:44.159 --> 01:24:47.880
what have you? So well, I'm glad you enjoyed it.

1531
01:24:47.880 --> 01:24:50.800
We'll definitely watch some of the sequels. We were talking

1532
01:24:50.800 --> 01:24:53.600
about it. If the sequels click really hard, we might

1533
01:24:53.640 --> 01:24:57.079
do individual shows for the sequels, but if if we're

1534
01:24:57.159 --> 01:24:59.279
kind of not feeling it quite that way, then we

1535
01:24:59.319 --> 01:25:01.760
may do like a sh about like all of the

1536
01:25:01.760 --> 01:25:05.840
sequels in one. I don't know, we'll see. But next up,

1537
01:25:06.520 --> 01:25:08.880
I'm really excited to show you this one because this

1538
01:25:08.920 --> 01:25:10.960
is one of and I haven't seen it in ten years,

1539
01:25:11.000 --> 01:25:14.359
but this is one of my personal, like favorite found

1540
01:25:14.359 --> 01:25:16.479
footage movies that like really freaked me out, and we

1541
01:25:16.520 --> 01:25:17.800
talked about it a little bit earlier.

1542
01:25:17.920 --> 01:25:21.319
Yeah, so we're gonna dive into REC from.

1543
01:25:21.119 --> 01:25:26.079
I believe two thousand and seven Spanish made in Spain

1544
01:25:26.560 --> 01:25:29.640
found footage horror movie which many people listening may have

1545
01:25:29.960 --> 01:25:34.399
been familiar with REC because it was then reck. It's

1546
01:25:34.600 --> 01:25:36.359
R e C. By the way, this always messed me

1547
01:25:36.479 --> 01:25:38.960
up when people say REC. It's short for record rec.

1548
01:25:39.800 --> 01:25:41.479
I For years people would talk about it and I

1549
01:25:41.479 --> 01:25:43.239
didn't realize because I only ever read it on the

1550
01:25:43.239 --> 01:25:45.720
thing they say REC, and I would think they were

1551
01:25:45.720 --> 01:25:49.239
talking about like a car. So, but it's rec R

1552
01:25:49.279 --> 01:25:52.840
e C. It's a Spanish found footage movie, very scary,

1553
01:25:52.880 --> 01:25:56.479
and a lot of fans and Spooky's listening may know

1554
01:25:56.560 --> 01:26:00.920
the American remix, which was called Quarantine. That's bad but Wreck,

1555
01:26:01.319 --> 01:26:02.960
in my opinion, wiped the floor with it. It was

1556
01:26:03.000 --> 01:26:06.600
way scarier in every way. So that's just my opinion though.

1557
01:26:06.840 --> 01:26:09.119
But Reck I find very scary. I think the whole

1558
01:26:09.159 --> 01:26:12.520
series is really good, but the first one really it

1559
01:26:12.600 --> 01:26:14.079
hits well. So I think that's going to be a

1560
01:26:14.119 --> 01:26:17.800
really fun one because there are four total Wreck movies.

1561
01:26:17.960 --> 01:26:21.319
Okay, so we're gonna, yeah, we're going to get into that.

1562
01:26:22.000 --> 01:26:27.399
Our keep our found footage streak alive for now, I guess.

1563
01:26:27.439 --> 01:26:29.680
So, yeah, that seems to be. That seems to be

1564
01:26:29.720 --> 01:26:32.279
the way the wind is blowing. I mean, nobody's been

1565
01:26:32.319 --> 01:26:34.960
mad about it, including me, So I say, we yeah,

1566
01:26:35.039 --> 01:26:38.079
we keep rocking them out. So and did you before

1567
01:26:38.119 --> 01:26:40.399
we go, did you want to mention geek Out?

1568
01:26:40.840 --> 01:26:43.600
Yeah? So I know that I mentioned it last time,

1569
01:26:43.800 --> 01:26:46.359
and I would just like to plug it again that

1570
01:26:47.159 --> 01:26:50.600
On June eleventh through fourteenth, I'm going to be at

1571
01:26:50.920 --> 01:26:55.600
geek Out, which is in College Corner outside of Oxford, Ohio.

1572
01:26:56.479 --> 01:26:58.960
If you go to geek Outfestival dot com, you can

1573
01:26:59.000 --> 01:27:02.880
get your tickets. And I actually did a good job

1574
01:27:02.960 --> 01:27:05.800
this time and I actually pulled up like all our

1575
01:27:05.880 --> 01:27:09.439
events and everything. We're going to have vendors. There's going

1576
01:27:09.479 --> 01:27:11.600
to be panels. It looks like there's going to be

1577
01:27:11.720 --> 01:27:16.199
actually a tabletop RPG room going on every single day,

1578
01:27:16.880 --> 01:27:21.199
every single day from noon to midnight. There's a video

1579
01:27:21.319 --> 01:27:24.920
game room that's going to be going on every single day.

1580
01:27:25.039 --> 01:27:29.159
And then of course we've got the fire and Flow

1581
01:27:29.279 --> 01:27:32.119
from eight pm to two am every day there's a

1582
01:27:32.159 --> 01:27:38.359
big fire, the fire Spinners, they're going to be out there. Yeah, pois, Yeah,

1583
01:27:38.399 --> 01:27:42.520
that's it. So yeah, there's there's some list of all

1584
01:27:42.560 --> 01:27:44.439
the fun stuff that we're going to be doing. And

1585
01:27:44.479 --> 01:27:47.520
again that's June eleventh through fourteenth, and if you go

1586
01:27:47.560 --> 01:27:50.479
to geek Outfestival dot com you can get your tickets.

1587
01:27:50.680 --> 01:27:53.079
Hey, so yeah, make sure to check that out, guys,

1588
01:27:53.640 --> 01:27:57.560
and be sure to be subscribed. Stay subscribed. What have

1589
01:27:57.640 --> 01:28:01.199
you to us here at Week Spooky because we have

1590
01:28:01.279 --> 01:28:03.520
so much more to bring you, and we're we're trying

1591
01:28:03.560 --> 01:28:06.119
to be a little more consistent with some cutting deep episodes.

1592
01:28:06.239 --> 01:28:09.800
It's been fun to watch these movies and talk about

1593
01:28:09.840 --> 01:28:11.600
them with you, guys. So if you want to email us,

1594
01:28:11.680 --> 01:28:15.039
just remember you can send us an email at Weekly

1595
01:28:15.239 --> 01:28:17.760
Spooky at gmail dot com. We'd love to hear from me.

1596
01:28:17.840 --> 01:28:20.279
We'd love your thoughts about the movies we've talked about.

1597
01:28:20.319 --> 01:28:22.319
We'd love to hear what movies you think we should

1598
01:28:22.319 --> 01:28:25.079
talk about all that stuff, so send us an email

1599
01:28:25.119 --> 01:28:27.479
Weeklyspooky at gmail dot com. And if you love what

1600
01:28:27.479 --> 01:28:30.000
we're doing here at Weekly Spooky, whether it's you know,

1601
01:28:30.239 --> 01:28:33.079
cutting deep into horror, that may our flagship show Weekly

1602
01:28:33.079 --> 01:28:35.680
Spooky Terrifying at true etctera, and you want to support

1603
01:28:35.720 --> 01:28:37.800
us in a very direct way, head to Weeklyspooky dot

1604
01:28:37.840 --> 01:28:40.000
com slash join, where for as little as one dollar

1605
01:28:40.039 --> 01:28:42.439
a month you help you help us keep the show

1606
01:28:42.439 --> 01:28:46.039
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1607
01:28:46.159 --> 01:28:50.159
five years of exclusive content including audiobooks, creepypasta readings, and

1608
01:28:50.199 --> 01:28:54.319
so much more at Weeklyspooky dot com slash join. So

1609
01:28:54.399 --> 01:28:57.159
thank you guys so much for joining us tonight, and

1610
01:28:57.239 --> 01:29:00.680
we'll be back very soon talking about a Spanish flavor

1611
01:29:00.720 --> 01:29:04.680
I found footage, and until then, make sure those camera

1612
01:29:04.720 --> 01:29:05.640
batteries are charged