May 26, 2025

Monthly Spooky | Murder by Mushroom, Haunted Dudleytown, and Eerie Disappearances

Monthly Spooky | Murder by Mushroom, Haunted Dudleytown, and Eerie Disappearances
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Monthly Spooky: Weird News, Haunting Stories, And Urban Legends

This month on Monthly Spooky, Henrique and Michelle dive into one of the most bizarre true crime cases in recent history—a woman in Australia accused of fatally poisoning her in-laws with Death Cap mushrooms. Was it an accident… or something more sinister?

But the chills don’t stop there. You’ll also hear about:

  • A disturbing string of graffiti linked to a missing toddler
  • The legend of Dudleytown, Connecticut—a town so cursed it’s been erased from most maps
  • The strange relationship between fear, folklore, and real-world horror
  • A reflective conversation on how media and mystery influence public fear

As always, the episode blends true crime, urban legends, paranormal folklore, and the duo’s trademark humor and personal storytelling. If you love weird history, unsolved cases, and haunted towns, this one’s for you.

Get your very own signed copy of Weekly Spooky's The April Fool !

🎧 LISTEN NOW and subscribe for spine-tingling horror stories every week!

🎉 Unlock exclusive bonus episodes and support the show on Patreon!
👉 WeeklySpooky.com/Join

📬 Contact Us / Submit Your Horror Story!

🎵 Music by Ray Mattis 👉 Check out Ray’s incredible work here !
👨‍💼 Executive Producers: Rob Fields, Mark Shields, Bobbletopia.com
🎥 Produced by: Daniel Wilder
🌐 Explore more terrifying tales at: WeeklySpooky.com

🎧 LISTEN NOW and subscribe for spine-tingling horror stories every week!

🎉 Unlock exclusive bonus episodes and support the show on Patreon!
👉 WeeklySpooky.com/Join

📬 Contact Us / Submit Your Horror Story!

🎵 Music by Ray Mattis 👉 Check out Ray’s incredible work here !
👨‍💼 Executive Producers: Rob Fields, Bobbletopia.com
🎥 Produced by: Daniel Wilder
🌐 Explore more terrifying tales at: WeeklySpooky.com
WEBVTT

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Death by fungus, a ghost in a wavy robe, eerie

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graffiti near the site where a child disappeared, and to

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town where insanity is the norm.

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Get comfortable, turn off the lights.

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It's monthly spooky. Well, hello, my spookies. It is indeed

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that time of the month, and this is monthly spooky. I'm,

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of course your host Enrique Kuto here with my good

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buddy and co host Michelle. Michelle, how are you hum?

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We were having a conversation right before we went on,

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and I decided that this should be shared because I

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was talking about bleaching my teeth. Michelle was talking about

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bleaching her teeth in the past, and then I wanted

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to confirm that she had had braces, and then she

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mentioned that she didn't want braces. Yeah, why did you

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not want braces?

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Because I liked my face and I didn't want braces.

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I don't know what the problem here is. I don't

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know why that's weird.

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I mean, first of all, I'm thrilled that you like

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a part of yourself, or liked a part of yourself.

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That's really amazing. And I'm jealous.

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What No, I just don't want I don't like change.

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I don't like change.

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I mean, were you how long were you embraces?

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A really long time. We've talked about this. We both

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had palatal expanders.

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Yes, I remember talking about that. Yeah, wait, you were

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embraces for a long time. But you preferred the way

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your teeth were before. Yes, I just assumed that they could.

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Your teeth couldn't have been that crooked.

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Oh no, they were. They were not good, and you

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know I was. My jaw was like really narrow and

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stuff like that. You know, it wasn't good. But I like,

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don't like change. I didn't want braces. No, and it

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was scary and I cried a lot. And then my

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dad went to the like yelled at my dentist.

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Oh my god. So I get the being afraid. I

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will say that I just was. I was always in

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orthodontia from such a young age that I just kind

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of accepted it. Although the palette expander really was was

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pretty painful a lot of the time. Do you have

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all those fond memories of when they would when you're

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like mom or Dad would like turn the key in

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it to expand it.

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No, because we talked about this at one point, I

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didn't do it like that I went to the dentist

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or the orthodontist to they turned it there. We didn't

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turn it at home.

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I had heard of ones like that. I guess mine

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was much more aggressive because I had they had to

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turn the key two times every day. Oh my god.

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Now I'm sure it was a different module. Yeah, slightly,

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but it was very aggressive. And there were days I

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would beg my mom to skip it just one time

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because of how much it would hurt because she would

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turn the key, and then I would leave and like

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have tears coming down my cheeks because of all the

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pressure in my mouth.

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Yeah, I remember what it felt like to have that happen.

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But it wasn't every day. I don't know what I

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would have done.

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I heard of people having pallet expanders that you went

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in like every few weeks or something, and they would

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just do the quick little thing. Yeah, now they We

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had a little key which was basically just like a

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paper clip, Like it didn't hurt. You'd stick it in

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and then push it, push it forward and backward. Okay,

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so it was like a little hole. So and and yeah,

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she had to do it twice a day. Wow, I

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wanted to say twice a day. And three times on

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Sunday just because I find that funny. But no, that yeah,

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it was not pleasant. But so how old were you

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when the braces were put on?

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I don't remember.

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I mean like thirteen, sixteen.

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Fourteen, fifteen, something like that.

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Okay, well, some kids hate change.

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I don't like change.

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Change.

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I didn't want my teeth messed with at all. I

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don't like I'm so confused, like I don't like any

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change ever, sort of.

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I mean, I believe you, Pow, we all believe you. Pal.

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It's really hard to say things like that because I

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found the Reddit tattoo advice for them, and people are

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like writing it and going like I got a tattoo

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and now nothing's going to be the same, and I

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hate my body and I'm just like, what the fuck

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is happening.

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I just not bring up that you like to get tattoos,

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but yeah, I like to have your teeth straightened.

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But I think it's totally different because like, the tattoos

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have things that I like on them, and I don't

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want my teeth touched by people.

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I like chewing a th actively.

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I could chew it just was what you think. I

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couldn't chew you think if I think.

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You just had to work at it.

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I chewed fine.

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I mean, now it sounds like you're just trying to cope. No,

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I chewed great. I was one of the best chewers.

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I've never been a really good chewer. But that didn't

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change anything.

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I My teeth were a nightmare. I had a full overbite,

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like a full overbite. You couldn't see any bottom teeth

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at all when I when I closed my mouth and smiled.

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I mean, I don't know, because I don't remember, but

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I did have an overbite.

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I remember because I still have the impressions of my teeth.

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I don't know where they are now, but I saw

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them five or six years ago when I was packing

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my closet or unpacking my closet. My teeth were real crooked. Yeah,

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it was bad. It was really bad. I was I

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was under the impression it was a privilege to get braces.

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Well, that's real, that's nice. I mean, I'm glad that

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that that's where you were mentally when you were a kid,

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and you weren't just a ball of anxiety and nothing

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was ever going to be the same ever, and your

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teeth were probably gonna fall out.

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Well, I mean, I was a ball of anxiety. I

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didn't I worried about my braces a bit. My biggest

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fear was that I wasn't taking good enough care of

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my braces and when they took them off, I was

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going to have like cavities on the edges and stuff.

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That was my biggest fear.

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I was a little bit afraid of that, but mostly

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I was just afraid that nothing would ever be the same.

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Which wouldn't.

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But it became the same. I mean, you've lived more

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of your life with you know, with your teeth straightened

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than you did without them. So that's normal now, Like, yeah.

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That's that's the bad thing. It's when it's never the

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same and now it's just you. It was this different thing.

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And but I don't see. But you get tattoos that tattoos, see.

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I feel that way about tattoos. I'm like, I don't

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like that it's permanent.

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It's not that big of a deal.

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It also hurts.

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I don't like my skin.

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And also my skin. I made it. It's mine, yeah.

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And you can make patterns on it and stuff, and

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it doesn't hurt that much.

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If it's more than none, then it's too much. Pain.

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Oh, come on, it's not more than none.

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It is more than none. No, well, I'm glad you

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got braces because it's better for your teeth, it's better

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for your mouth.

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No, it's not true.

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Is that based on anything or is that just your feelings?

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It's probably just my feelings. But I don't know that

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it's really better. I think it's it was. I mean

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I think a lot of it's cosmetic.

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You know, there's no doubt that a decent amount is cosmetic.

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I really did have a problem with my teeth. But

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my mother had really crooked teeth and she didn't get

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them fixed until she was in her forties. And I

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watched her have braces in her forties and they hurt,

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and she couldn't eat a lot of the candies and

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foods that she liked that were really sticky. You know,

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there were a lot of negatives to it. But she

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she always told me when I got braces that she

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didn't want me to have to live my life like

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wanting to only smile with my mouth closed like she did. Yeah,

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because she spent her whole life trying not to smile

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with her mouth open, and photos and stuff, and it's

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funny because you know, she told me that and then

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I looked at like her senior picture and her mouth

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is closed in the smile. Oh, and I felt for her.

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So all I'm saying is I get it. You were

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a coastal elite. You were like, no, I don't want

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these good things. It's fine, it's fine, No, it's fine.

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You're never gonna understand, not.

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This one, this one, I won't. I'm I'm so glad.

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You know you realize I still wear my retainers.

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I know, and it's and I would too, but I

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was so afraid I was going to swallow it that

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I'd have like nightmares about it, so I had to.

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I find retainers hard to take out.

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Oh I don't.

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How would you swallow? For the record, when I first

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got a retainer, I did. I was afraid i'd swallow it.

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For the record, Yeah, I had to work on that fear.

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Yeah, for the record, I have generalized anxiety disorder, So

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I could be afraid of pretty much anything.

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If I want, if you put your mind to it,

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And that's something I'm proud of you.

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Thanks. Sometimes I still wake up and I'm scared that

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I swallowed my retainer and I haven't worn one in

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like twenty years.

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Fair. No, that's fair. I still wear my retainer and

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it still shocks my dentist that I'm wearing the retainer

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they gave me when I was eighteen.

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Wow.

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Yeah, I remember when I told him, like, oh, I

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wear my retainer pretty much every night, and he was

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like really, and that was like seven years ago. Yeah,

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years ago. He was like wow.

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For over ten years, he probably like told people about that.

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Well, not to brag, but I had a cleaning and

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X rays earlier this week, and after he looked at

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my X rays and did his exam, he said, perfect

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as usual. Aw Look, I'm it's nice to be proud

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of my teeth. Okay, they were really awful. If I

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can find a photo of me smiling with my mouth

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open as a kid, I will send it to you

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so you can make fun of me.

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No, I wouldn't make fun of you. I hope that

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you do, but that your a cute child.

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I was a cute baby, and I was quite a child.

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So we're gonna take a quick break. Today's by the way,

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tonight's topic I'm actually really excited about because I wanted

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to learn more about this for a while. This is

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the story of Dudley Town, Connecticut. Have you ever heard

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of Dudley Town.

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I don't think so.

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It's one of those ghostly, haunted, cursed kind of American towns,

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and I'm excited to learn about it. We're gonna learn

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about that, but first we're gonna get to some spooky

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news right after this. All right, it's time for the

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spooky news. The spooky news. This first one, I felt

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we should start strong.

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Yeah.

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So it's from Mirror dot co dot UK.

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Yay.

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Yeah. They always come through with weird, creepy stories that

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sometimes are just basically commercials, so I'm excited to read

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one here with you. The headline reads England's Most Haunted

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Village Locals. There should be what England's most Haunted village

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Locals fear the hanging school master and screaming man ghosts.

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So there was supposed to be a comma somewhere.

231
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Yeah, I feel like it should be Locals of England's

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most Haunted Village would be a lot easier to understand.

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But yeah, they're the locals, but I like they fear

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the hanging school master and the screaming man ghosts. They're like,

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we don't fear the reading woman ghost. It's just sitting

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there like reading, like every now and then she licks

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her finger and turns the page, and people like, oh,

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that's fine.

239
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Yeah, they used to do that a lot. You know,

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I'm not, don't worry about that.

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I remember when when COVID was first like happening at

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the grocery store, being like, oh my god, I can't

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lick my finger to open the plastic bag because I

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feel weird. You know.

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I never I never started doing it again, and it's been.

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00:12:49.360 --> 00:12:52.519
Yeah I never did either. Yeah, well I've done it

247
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maybe once or twice when I was desperate, like the

248
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bag just would not I mean like recently, like in

249
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the last year or two, like the bag would not

250
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cooperate at all. I'd finally, like, I lick my finger

251
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and just pull it apart. Because the worst part was

252
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that I remember it. I don't remember exactly when I was,

253
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but I remember the first time i'd done it forever.

254
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I was so mad about how much it helped.

255
00:13:11.559 --> 00:13:16.600
Yeah, I know, I was like, damn it. I think

256
00:13:16.679 --> 00:13:19.320
if you wanted to solve it, I mean, this would

257
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help a little bit. But if you could start crying

258
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and then wipe your tears and open the bag.

259
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Social also not okay.

260
00:13:26.679 --> 00:13:29.720
It's not. But I think people wouldn't be disgusted because

261
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they wouldn't even like it would be so weird.

262
00:13:32.120 --> 00:13:38.600
No, they'd be mortified instead, which I guess is better, right, Yeah, exactly, Okay, yeah, okay. Well,

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00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:45.879
a university academic has uncovered the origins behind the mysterious

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reputation of what is often called the most haunted village

265
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in England. Cluckley, Kent, is said to be home to

266
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I thought it was a guy for a second. It's

267
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said to be home to over a dozen ghosts, and

268
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for more than seventy years that has held the title

269
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of England's spookiest village. I don't know who awarded that.

270
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Probably I don't know what, like a Margaret Thatcher.

271
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Maybe I would think so. No, yeah, I would think so. Yeah.

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00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:18.919
Doctor Simon Morton, an Associate Professor of Creative Economies that

273
00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:22.960
u w E. Bristol, was determined to uncover how Pluckly

274
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gained such notoriety. Ghostly figures like the hanging Schoolmaster and

275
00:14:27.720 --> 00:14:30.639
the Screaming Man of the clay Pit are said to

276
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haunt the village. Yeah, I want to know about that. Yeah,

277
00:14:34.440 --> 00:14:37.440
maybe watch them never mention it again they probably want.

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00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:42.039
Through extensive archival research, including a deep dive into newspapers,

279
00:14:42.080 --> 00:14:46.799
birth and death records, marriage certificates, and parish documents, doctor

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Morton has traced the origins of the village's ghostly folklore. Quote.

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I've been captivated by Pluckley's ghost stories since my childhood,

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Doctor Morton explained. My late father's ann says came from

283
00:15:00.840 --> 00:15:03.879
the village, so this research has been both personal and

284
00:15:04.039 --> 00:15:07.759
professional for me. Along the way, I even discovered that

285
00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:11.399
one of the ghosts is a distant relative, Sarah Sharp,

286
00:15:11.799 --> 00:15:13.919
the Watercress lady. Oh man.

287
00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:18.919
I don't know if I have any relatives that are ghosts.

288
00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:24.240
I mean you, I mean when you say relative, it

289
00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:26.039
depends on how far back you want to go.

290
00:15:26.679 --> 00:15:27.440
But I don't know.

291
00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:31.360
I just feel like if you went like a thousand

292
00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:34.559
years back, gotta at least be somebody you were related

293
00:15:34.600 --> 00:15:36.320
to is thought to be a ghost at some point,

294
00:15:36.840 --> 00:15:41.080
just statistically, not even like uh yeah, I mean maybe not.

295
00:15:41.159 --> 00:15:45.360
You're like, no, we're a very stodgy and skeptical people.

296
00:15:45.639 --> 00:15:47.320
Yeah, we don't do that ghost stuff.

297
00:15:48.919 --> 00:15:52.240
Plucky, located on the northern edge of the Wheel between

298
00:15:52.399 --> 00:15:56.159
Maidstone and Ashford was an Anglo Saxon settlement and is

299
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home to several historic buildings, including a fourteenth century church.

300
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The village gained wider fame in the nineteen nineties when

301
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it served as the setting for the TV adaptation of

302
00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:11.879
Achi Bates's novel The Darling Buds of May, starring David

303
00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:16.000
Jason and Pam Ferris. No offense, England. But sometimes when

304
00:16:16.039 --> 00:16:18.279
you talk about your history, I feel like I'm listening

305
00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:20.840
to gibberish, Like I just don't know any of those

306
00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:23.240
people or those movies. I feel well.

307
00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:26.679
I feel better now because I don't know that stuff either.

308
00:16:27.080 --> 00:16:28.840
But I don't know a lot of movies. So I

309
00:16:28.919 --> 00:16:30.000
just figured that you did.

310
00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:33.080
Well. It was a book too. Oh. Also I didn't

311
00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:35.600
know the book either, Achi Bates. I don't know Achi Bates,

312
00:16:35.600 --> 00:16:37.120
and I don't know The Darling Buds of May.

313
00:16:37.720 --> 00:16:39.080
Yeah. I don't know books.

314
00:16:40.039 --> 00:16:41.919
That's fair. I don't read so good.

315
00:16:42.320 --> 00:16:42.720
Yeah.

316
00:16:43.519 --> 00:16:45.840
While the village is rumored to be home to anywhere

317
00:16:45.879 --> 00:16:50.840
from ten to seventeen ghosts, it's claim to be the

318
00:16:50.840 --> 00:16:54.200
most haunted was first made in nineteen fifty and later

319
00:16:54.279 --> 00:16:58.240
bolstered by a mention in the nineteen eighty nine Guinness

320
00:16:58.320 --> 00:17:00.480
Book of World Records.

321
00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:05.200
Oh are they still included.

322
00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:10.799
I'll be curious. That's a book I do know. Yeah,

323
00:17:11.319 --> 00:17:14.960
storytelling is a fundamental human activity, and whether or not

324
00:17:15.079 --> 00:17:18.839
you believe in ghosts, Puckley's reputation shows just how fascinated

325
00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:22.240
we are by tales with a spooky twist. Doctor Morton said,

326
00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:27.680
I find no relevance to that statement. Yeah, as the

327
00:17:27.720 --> 00:17:30.039
host and narrator of Weekly Spooky, I don't know what

328
00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:33.599
you're talking about. Quote. What's exciting about this research is

329
00:17:33.640 --> 00:17:37.240
how one individual passionate about ghost stories managed to shape

330
00:17:37.240 --> 00:17:42.480
the identity of an entire village through his storytelling. Doctor

331
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Morton's findings show that ten of Pluckley's ghost stories were

332
00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:52.000
initially recorded by local man Frederick Sanders. Oh. Yeah, that's

333
00:17:52.039 --> 00:17:55.440
interesting that they all go to basically one source. Sanders,

334
00:17:55.440 --> 00:17:59.480
an avid ghost hunter, documented these tales in self published books,

335
00:18:00.279 --> 00:18:03.720
letters to the local press, and ghost hunts. At least

336
00:18:03.799 --> 00:18:06.440
four of these ghost stories can be traced to real

337
00:18:06.640 --> 00:18:08.359
historical events.

338
00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:09.799
Wow, only four.

339
00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:13.400
I want to say wow to self publishing books that

340
00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:17.519
long ago. Yeah, like, because it would have been hard

341
00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:26.680
and self publishing books in the late nineties was hard man.

342
00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:30.000
Sarah Sharp, who tragically died in a fire in August

343
00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:34.400
nineteen eleven, became known as the water cris Woman. Mary

344
00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:36.880
Anne Bennett, who took her own life in eighteen sixty two,

345
00:18:36.920 --> 00:18:40.640
became the Lady of Rose Court. Richard Brigland, who died

346
00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:43.039
in an accident at the Plucky Brick and Tile Works

347
00:18:43.079 --> 00:18:46.400
quarry in eighteen ninety nine, is remembered as the Screaming

348
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Man of the clay Pit.

349
00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:48.720
Wow.

350
00:18:49.359 --> 00:18:52.640
Finally, Henry Edgar Martin, a papermaker who took his own

351
00:18:52.680 --> 00:19:00.200
life in nineteen nineteen, became known as the Hanging Schoolmaster. Like,

352
00:19:00.279 --> 00:19:01.640
not as impressed as I thought i'd be.

353
00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:04.440
No, I thought that the Screaming Man and the claypit

354
00:19:04.519 --> 00:19:07.039
was going to be really interesting. And it's just some guy.

355
00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:08.359
Yeah, that's fair.

356
00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:11.000
Probably wasn't even screaming. And if he was, it was

357
00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:11.759
really sad.

358
00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:15.240
Why would it not be sad? I don't know, he's

359
00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:19.240
a ghost so he died. That did implicate sadness, Like, I.

360
00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:22.240
Don't know, work accidents are sad, okay?

361
00:19:22.279 --> 00:19:25.640
Fair quote. The way these stories are told and retold

362
00:19:25.759 --> 00:19:28.319
reveals a lot about how we use the past to

363
00:19:28.480 --> 00:19:32.200
understand our present. Doctor Morton said, local rumors take on

364
00:19:32.240 --> 00:19:35.960
a life of their own. Personal tragedies turn into sensational gossip,

365
00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:39.680
and sometimes social prejudices cloud the real lives of the

366
00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:43.319
people behind these stories. Ultimately, it's a reminder that real

367
00:19:43.319 --> 00:19:46.519
people and real places are behind these tales and that

368
00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:48.279
they deserve our respect.

369
00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:52.160
Okay, well some of them, some of them.

370
00:19:52.119 --> 00:19:53.839
Not that lousy screaming man.

371
00:19:54.319 --> 00:19:55.359
Yeah.

372
00:19:55.559 --> 00:19:58.359
Doctor Morton's paper, Frederick Sanders and the Origins of the

373
00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:03.400
most Haunted Village in England is published in the journal Folklore. Okay,

374
00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:07.359
all right, see that's okay, promotion because that's interesting. What

375
00:20:07.480 --> 00:20:12.599
he discovered is like interesting, yeah, yeah, But what will

376
00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:16.279
become even more interesting is when we learn about some

377
00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:20.680
eerie graffiti going on, I believe down under in Australia.

378
00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:35.160
We'll get to that story after this. And we're back

379
00:20:35.279 --> 00:20:39.079
with another piece of spooky news. This one comes from

380
00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:44.240
news dot com dot Au. Yeah, because it's Australian. I

381
00:20:44.359 --> 00:20:47.519
was right, and this appears to be an update to

382
00:20:47.839 --> 00:20:50.119
a news story and it's gotten a little strange. The

383
00:20:50.119 --> 00:20:55.319
headline is William Tyrell update after man spotted eerie graffiti

384
00:20:55.400 --> 00:21:01.119
message on tree close to where boy went missing. Sounds

385
00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:04.960
kind of creepy, right, I mean, could be a man

386
00:21:05.039 --> 00:21:09.359
who spotted graffiti naming missing toddler William Tyrrell on a

387
00:21:09.400 --> 00:21:12.200
tree stump not far from where the three year old

388
00:21:12.240 --> 00:21:17.640
disappeared nine years ago, said he alerted police and gave

389
00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:21.319
them direction, but never heard any more about it.

390
00:21:23.680 --> 00:21:26.000
Probably because it's a weird thing to talk to the

391
00:21:26.039 --> 00:21:26.640
police about.

392
00:21:26.839 --> 00:21:28.960
Well, and nine years ago is a little bit. I

393
00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:31.960
don't find it as strange that somebody spray painted the

394
00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:34.480
tree if it was nine years ago, if it was

395
00:21:34.519 --> 00:21:37.880
like that week or that month, it'd be strange, like

396
00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:38.680
really strange.

397
00:21:39.240 --> 00:21:42.400
I think if it were like the next day, it

398
00:21:42.440 --> 00:21:45.279
would be super weird because like if it had it

399
00:21:45.319 --> 00:21:48.839
was before media got involved. But I think after people

400
00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:52.359
know about it, it's not weird anymore. It's just someone

401
00:21:52.359 --> 00:21:54.519
who knows about it.

402
00:21:54.799 --> 00:21:56.759
I just think if the case is still kind of

403
00:21:57.039 --> 00:22:01.279
hot and ongoing, then it's like surprising. But if it's

404
00:22:01.359 --> 00:22:02.960
if it's one of those things that people just kind

405
00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:04.880
of talk about because it happened a long time ago,

406
00:22:05.160 --> 00:22:07.519
then it's like nobody's that surprised that somebody was kind

407
00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:09.599
of a jerk because they thought they were doing something

408
00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:11.359
that might have been okay, or maybe they were being

409
00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:12.440
an asshole, or.

410
00:22:12.440 --> 00:22:15.119
Maybe they just wanted it was in remembrance of him.

411
00:22:15.559 --> 00:22:19.319
Yeah, that's kind of what this looks like. Yeah, Bob

412
00:22:19.400 --> 00:22:22.640
Carney's told news dot com dot Au he came across

413
00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:25.960
the stump only a kilometer from Bird Tree, a well

414
00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:28.920
known landmark in the area around Kendall in New South Wales,

415
00:22:29.319 --> 00:22:32.200
from where William was reported missing two years ago. Okay,

416
00:22:32.200 --> 00:22:33.480
so it was a kilometer away.

417
00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:36.960
Isn't a kilometer like not super like little?

418
00:22:37.839 --> 00:22:40.400
Uh, it's less than a mile okay.

419
00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:43.319
But a mile is it would be far like that?

420
00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:44.119
That's weird.

421
00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:48.839
No, I agree, this is weird, mister Carney said his

422
00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:52.599
quote stomach churned when the area this week became the

423
00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:54.559
subject of calls for a new search.

424
00:22:55.880 --> 00:22:58.839
I'm showing you the Yeah, Jesus.

425
00:22:58.799 --> 00:23:03.400
Jesus saves William and A container found beneath a tree

426
00:23:03.400 --> 00:23:07.319
stump that has been graffitied contained a torch, magnifying glass,

427
00:23:07.359 --> 00:23:10.440
and other items. I think by torch it means lighter.

428
00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:14.759
No, it means flashlight. Oh oh yeah.

429
00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:17.920
Thank you for that. Honestly, then you saved me from

430
00:23:18.119 --> 00:23:22.079
looking even more foolish. News dot com do AU's investigative

431
00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:27.240
podcast Witness William Tyrrell has aired, has aired contested claims

432
00:23:27.559 --> 00:23:31.079
that the late Jeffrey Abbott apparently told another man that

433
00:23:31.160 --> 00:23:34.880
his brother Frank, had told him William was quote buried

434
00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:39.759
up on a big bird mountain, big bird buried up

435
00:23:39.759 --> 00:23:42.799
on big Bird Mountain there where the big tree is.

436
00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:47.680
The man purportedly relayed this conversation to his father, though

437
00:23:47.759 --> 00:23:52.200
now says Frank's brother said no such thing and denying

438
00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:56.440
all right. After hearing the fresh allegations, mister Carnes told

439
00:23:56.519 --> 00:23:59.480
news dot com dot Au he had come across the

440
00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:03.240
stump with the words Jesus saves William Tyrrell only a

441
00:24:03.319 --> 00:24:07.079
kilometer from the bird tree in twenty sixteen, two years

442
00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:10.200
after William's disappearance. So they think it's weird because there

443
00:24:10.599 --> 00:24:13.960
were supposedly rumors that he was buried by a tree

444
00:24:14.039 --> 00:24:17.799
near where he disappeared, and this is near where he disappeared.

445
00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:20.640
Okay, but I'm sure that he really wasn't buried by

446
00:24:20.680 --> 00:24:24.400
a tree, because I'm sure if he was, if like,

447
00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:26.000
the police would have looked into.

448
00:24:25.759 --> 00:24:30.480
That, like maybe, I mean, I don't know how Australian

449
00:24:30.519 --> 00:24:34.400
police do things could be poorly. I don't know.

450
00:24:35.400 --> 00:24:36.720
I bet they do a good job.

451
00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:40.200
Okay, he was on a trip with his family and

452
00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:45.759
took photos. Because the site was quote eerie quote, we

453
00:24:45.799 --> 00:24:48.240
reported it to the police. They went out and looked

454
00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:50.519
at it, called me for directions, and we never heard

455
00:24:50.559 --> 00:24:53.759
another thing about it again. He said. Then today I

456
00:24:53.839 --> 00:24:57.039
read this and think, just imagine if this stump was

457
00:24:57.119 --> 00:25:00.680
somehow connected, what an oversight it may have been. It

458
00:25:00.799 --> 00:25:03.440
sent chills through me when we came across it all

459
00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:06.200
those years ago, and still does when I think about

460
00:25:06.200 --> 00:25:13.079
it today. It is creepy. It's not creepy.

461
00:25:13.279 --> 00:25:17.640
No, I think it's sad. I mean, I can I

462
00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:20.519
can understand feeling a little bit like, you know, kind

463
00:25:20.519 --> 00:25:22.279
of you know, if you know about the case and

464
00:25:22.279 --> 00:25:24.160
then you come across it like a little bit kind

465
00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:28.880
of disturbed by it. True, I would never contact the

466
00:25:28.920 --> 00:25:30.519
police over it.

467
00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:35.279
No, it's not a printer, Hey, I thought.

468
00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:38.799
The printer was a person. This No one thought this

469
00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:40.200
tree stump was a person.

470
00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:43.400
Well, well, we haven't even finished the piece. Maybe they did,

471
00:25:43.799 --> 00:25:47.480
oh quote who writes something like that on a stump

472
00:25:47.519 --> 00:25:49.720
in the middle of the bush. We still don't know

473
00:25:49.799 --> 00:25:52.240
what happened to the young fella. But whoever sprayed this

474
00:25:52.359 --> 00:25:57.359
stump obviously had a formed opinion. Mister Carney said there

475
00:25:57.519 --> 00:25:59.759
was also a container at the base of the stump

476
00:25:59.799 --> 00:26:03.559
under the two rocks with a quote, torch, magnifying glass,

477
00:26:03.559 --> 00:26:06.920
a coin, and a few other items. We notified police

478
00:26:06.920 --> 00:26:09.640
about that as well. I've never forgotten about that stump.

479
00:26:09.839 --> 00:26:11.680
I believe the police should do a search of this

480
00:26:11.799 --> 00:26:16.440
area from the stump to bird tree, he said. I

481
00:26:16.440 --> 00:26:19.119
mean maybe they should search. I don't know, like.

482
00:26:19.240 --> 00:26:20.400
I'm sure they've searched.

483
00:26:21.559 --> 00:26:23.960
You don't know that. I mean, I mean the police

484
00:26:23.960 --> 00:26:25.920
could have said that. Then they haven't said anything.

485
00:26:25.920 --> 00:26:29.680
It appears well, but like it's just it doesn't make

486
00:26:29.720 --> 00:26:32.400
any sense. It's I mean, and the stuff under the tree,

487
00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:34.279
there's one of them is a flash light. Well, yeah,

488
00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:36.440
the person who was spray painting was probably doing it

489
00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:37.960
at night, so they didn't get caught.

490
00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:41.400
Like why the magnifying glass though, oh.

491
00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:45.160
That I don't have any idea. So they well, maybe

492
00:26:45.160 --> 00:26:48.640
it was a bus token and maybe the magnifying glass

493
00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:51.279
so that they could get the lines like really precise,

494
00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:52.839
and they were like checking and make sure.

495
00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:55.119
And how about the few other items.

496
00:26:56.279 --> 00:26:59.440
Yeah, you're right, that's really suspicious, checkmate.

497
00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:05.359
Mister Carney said he guessed authorities had looked into his report,

498
00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:07.640
but quote, at the end of the day, it's just

499
00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:11.119
the eerie, uncomfortable feeling in my gut. It was just

500
00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:13.240
a strange thing to come across in the middle of

501
00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:16.079
the bush. We all agreed it was creepy, he said.

502
00:27:16.599 --> 00:27:19.519
Mister Carney said that when police conducted a fresh search

503
00:27:19.559 --> 00:27:22.200
of land in and around Kendall, they didn't go as

504
00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:25.680
far as bird Tree and he wished they had. Quote.

505
00:27:25.759 --> 00:27:27.839
I was saying at the time, I reckon, they need

506
00:27:27.839 --> 00:27:31.119
to keep going further out to near that stump. He said,

507
00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:34.039
there you go. They haven't searched there.

508
00:27:35.799 --> 00:27:36.240
They haven't.

509
00:27:36.279 --> 00:27:39.599
Well, yeah, according there, according to this news.

510
00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:43.119
Piece, according to this random dude who found a stump

511
00:27:43.279 --> 00:27:44.559
that he freaked out about.

512
00:27:44.759 --> 00:27:49.720
According to the journalists who were responsible for publishing this Yes,

513
00:27:50.880 --> 00:27:53.599
Former New South Wales detective Peter Hogan has called for

514
00:27:53.640 --> 00:27:57.720
authorities to quote thoroughly investigate Abbot and said he quote

515
00:27:57.839 --> 00:28:02.119
must be subpoena to give evidence at the coronial coronial inquest.

516
00:28:02.319 --> 00:28:05.920
I'm guessing that's a thing there, A thorough investigative search

517
00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:08.279
is required to be conducted by police at Bird Tree

518
00:28:08.359 --> 00:28:11.359
to locate William's remains or rule out the location. Mister

519
00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:15.160
Hogan said, quote, you cannot simply ignore the possibility that

520
00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:18.160
he may or may not be buried there. It sounds

521
00:28:18.200 --> 00:28:20.519
like there's a lot of inaction. I mean, a former

522
00:28:20.599 --> 00:28:23.880
detective also says, like, why not make sure?

523
00:28:25.160 --> 00:28:28.640
Okay, I'm just saying, do they just never do graffiti

524
00:28:29.000 --> 00:28:33.920
in Australia or something. I just I'm so confused right now.

525
00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:37.200
Well, you are near Philadelphia, so like, no graffiti to

526
00:28:37.240 --> 00:28:39.640
you is like quite a bit of graffiti to other people.

527
00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:46.279
I mean, I wouldn't say quite a bit. But okay,

528
00:28:49.079 --> 00:28:51.319
Philly is not even a big graffiti town.

529
00:28:51.799 --> 00:28:54.599
Not anymore because everybody gets shot while they're painting the walls.

530
00:28:54.640 --> 00:28:59.519
So we're gonna take a quick break and then we're

531
00:28:59.559 --> 00:29:04.000
gonna be act with a story about baby monkey kidnappings.

532
00:29:04.279 --> 00:29:16.000
Oh no, right after this, now it's time for one

533
00:29:16.039 --> 00:29:23.519
of my favorite topics, monkeys. No, Michelle, why, why really

534
00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:24.599
would you be afraid.

535
00:29:24.359 --> 00:29:26.400
Of monkeys because they're they're weird.

536
00:29:27.640 --> 00:29:28.440
It's so mean.

537
00:29:28.920 --> 00:29:31.519
No, I don't like them. They're too close to people.

538
00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:38.559
That's really mean. No, like, what what is the problem

539
00:29:38.599 --> 00:29:41.640
that they're like people or that they're not like us? Like,

540
00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:45.160
what is the problem that they're like people? Okay, so

541
00:29:45.200 --> 00:29:49.119
you're afraid of people, yes, and okay, okay, yes.

542
00:29:49.119 --> 00:29:53.079
We've established this before. I'm afraid of people. Then by extension,

543
00:29:53.079 --> 00:29:54.240
I'm afraid of monkeys.

544
00:29:54.799 --> 00:29:58.839
Okay, I get it, because they're big, strong, hairy people. Basically, yeah,

545
00:29:58.960 --> 00:29:59.680
they can't talk.

546
00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:01.319
Yeah, that's even worse.

547
00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:05.400
Okay, okay, I follow you. Well. This story is from

548
00:30:05.519 --> 00:30:13.079
NPR researchers puzzle over rash of baby monkey kidnappings wow

549
00:30:14.440 --> 00:30:17.799
on an island in Panama, a fad that one researcher

550
00:30:17.839 --> 00:30:21.880
called viscerally disturbing has recently taken off among a group

551
00:30:21.920 --> 00:30:23.319
of young male monkeys.

552
00:30:23.960 --> 00:30:26.920
Oh shit, bunkies are kidnapping monkeys.

553
00:30:27.240 --> 00:30:29.119
Yeah, well, yeah, that's the things you were like, I

554
00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:32.880
didn't know what monkey was qualifying. Yes, it's a baby

555
00:30:32.920 --> 00:30:38.720
monkey kidnappings. I uh uh. These adolescents and juveniles have

556
00:30:38.839 --> 00:30:43.119
started to kidnap the infants of another monkey species, seemingly

557
00:30:43.480 --> 00:30:47.839
just for kicks. Oh fuck, that's what scientists think. After

558
00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:51.559
watching a bunch of male white faced capuchin monkeys walking

559
00:30:51.599 --> 00:30:55.440
around with baby howler monkeys clinging to their backs. The

560
00:30:55.519 --> 00:31:00.000
perplexing baby snatchings, reported in the journal Current Biology, suggests

561
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:03.839
that humans aren't the only intelligent species with youngsters that

562
00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:10.480
pursue apparently pointless activities that can be destructive to other creatures. Yay,

563
00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:15.440
ouch geez quote, they're just doing it for the sake

564
00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:18.440
of doing it to reduce their boredom or have something

565
00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:20.920
to do to fill the time and space in their lives.

566
00:31:21.160 --> 00:31:23.759
And I think seeing this occur in other species is

567
00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:26.839
somewhat terrifying because it kind of reflects a mirror on

568
00:31:26.920 --> 00:31:30.039
the actions that we do as people, said Brendan Barrett,

569
00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:33.440
an expert in animal culture animal culture at the Max

570
00:31:33.519 --> 00:31:36.759
Planck Institute of Animal Behavior in Germany and a member

571
00:31:36.799 --> 00:31:39.680
of the research team who is also a research associate

572
00:31:39.680 --> 00:31:44.839
at the Smithsonian Tropical Research Institute. So these what, these

573
00:31:44.839 --> 00:31:47.039
monkeys aren't starving and stuff like, I think we need

574
00:31:47.079 --> 00:31:48.519
to make monkeys' lives harder.

575
00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:53.200
I'm confused because I thought that the reason, yeah, people

576
00:31:53.240 --> 00:31:57.559
did stupid shit when they're bored that was weird is

577
00:31:58.160 --> 00:32:01.000
because they're bored. So what do you mean the monkeys

578
00:32:01.039 --> 00:32:01.440
are bored?

579
00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:05.720
What do you Yeah, Well, then we need to make

580
00:32:05.720 --> 00:32:09.720
their lives harder, and I'm running for Congress on this.

581
00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:16.599
He describes capuchin monkeys as quote chaos agents that roam

582
00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:19.880
through the forest, ripping up and manipulating everything in sight,

583
00:32:20.359 --> 00:32:23.799
and says they're similar to humans and chimps in many ways.

584
00:32:24.039 --> 00:32:29.640
M quote. They're highly innovative, they're highly explorative. He says

585
00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:36.599
they do interesting, strange things. The capuchins that have started

586
00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:42.480
kidnapping howler monkey babies live on Jakaran Jakaran Island, which

587
00:32:42.519 --> 00:32:46.000
is part of Panama's Koiba Coast or Koiba National Park.

588
00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:50.680
Unlike mainland capuchins, these island monkeys have figured out how

589
00:32:50.759 --> 00:32:54.440
to use stone tools to break open hard food items

590
00:32:54.480 --> 00:32:57.960
like seeds, crabs, and coconuts. Maybe that's why they're lazy now,

591
00:32:57.960 --> 00:33:00.480
because they have like plenty to eat. Yeah, they're eating

592
00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:03.279
stuff they were never meant to eat or meant to eat.

593
00:33:04.839 --> 00:33:08.400
That's why scientists have been watching them since twenty seventeen

594
00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:14.160
with the help of wildlife cameras. Zoe Goldsborough, a behavioral

595
00:33:14.160 --> 00:33:17.799
ecologist with the Max Planck Institute of Animal Behavior and

596
00:33:17.839 --> 00:33:22.039
the Smithsonian Research Associate, was reviewing camera footage when to

597
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:26.160
her surprise, she saw a capuchin carrying a howler monkey.

598
00:33:26.200 --> 00:33:31.359
Baby quote. It was not something we'd seen before. It's

599
00:33:31.400 --> 00:33:35.119
not something I'd heard of happening, says Goldsborough. There was

600
00:33:35.319 --> 00:33:37.839
I think a split second where I wondered if it

601
00:33:37.880 --> 00:33:40.880
could just be a capuchin monkey that looked very weird,

602
00:33:41.440 --> 00:33:44.400
But then it was very quickly clear that it was

603
00:33:44.400 --> 00:33:51.680
a different species. Yeah, Michelle's like fascinated and terrified by this.

604
00:33:51.680 --> 00:33:55.519
This is great. The look on your face is great, curious.

605
00:33:55.599 --> 00:33:58.279
She started looking through more of the footage and it

606
00:33:58.319 --> 00:34:01.640
became apparent that this was just a one off. It

607
00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:06.319
happened repeatedly, starting in January of twenty twenty two, when

608
00:34:06.359 --> 00:34:10.480
a particular immature male that the researchers call Joker seemed

609
00:34:10.559 --> 00:34:14.800
to be the innovator of this new activity. Joker is

610
00:34:14.840 --> 00:34:18.079
recognizable because of a small scar on his face, says

611
00:34:18.119 --> 00:34:21.199
o Bro. I mean, I know that it's obvious scientists

612
00:34:21.199 --> 00:34:23.880
are fucking nerds, but what a bunch of nerds?

613
00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:26.280
Yeah.

614
00:34:26.320 --> 00:34:29.199
And over a few months, also, that's mean it is

615
00:34:29.800 --> 00:34:32.440
should just call him scarface, be a real jerk, like

616
00:34:32.599 --> 00:34:35.079
just you mean. And over a few months, the cameras

617
00:34:35.079 --> 00:34:38.760
caught him carrying around four different infants, holding on to

618
00:34:38.840 --> 00:34:40.920
each of them for up to nine days.

619
00:34:41.320 --> 00:34:43.800
Oh shit, are they okay?

620
00:34:44.840 --> 00:34:47.079
I don't, I'm That's what I'm curious about, is like

621
00:34:47.119 --> 00:34:50.119
what happens to the babies? Yeah, do they get returned

622
00:34:50.159 --> 00:34:52.920
or do they die or like, because if they're with

623
00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:54.880
him for nine days, they must be feeding them, I

624
00:34:54.880 --> 00:34:58.719
would assume, or they're dying or they're dying. Yeah. Yeah,

625
00:34:58.760 --> 00:35:01.519
this was a tragic develop for the baby Howlers, as

626
00:35:01.559 --> 00:35:05.400
they had no nourishment and noticeably deteriorated over time.

627
00:35:05.679 --> 00:35:08.079
Oh my god, they're just like.

628
00:35:08.199 --> 00:35:11.519
Some like they're like the Fu Foo dogs and the

629
00:35:11.559 --> 00:35:13.360
purses of the rich ladies.

630
00:35:13.079 --> 00:35:15.960
Like, except they're not feeding them or taking care.

631
00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:17.920
Of You don't know what's happening to those Fu Foo dogs.

632
00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:20.320
I think that they're loved so much.

633
00:35:21.880 --> 00:35:26.639
You wish that's just your dream. They're likely probably dying

634
00:35:26.679 --> 00:35:30.000
from dehydration or lack of nutrition, says Barrett, who notes

635
00:35:30.039 --> 00:35:32.719
that these babies need their mother's milk and that several

636
00:35:32.760 --> 00:35:38.800
were actually seen dead in camera footage. No, I mean

637
00:35:39.360 --> 00:35:44.119
it's kind of like otters kill baby seals. They just

638
00:35:44.199 --> 00:35:50.800
do well. I mean, so, I'm just saying that there

639
00:35:50.800 --> 00:35:53.159
are examples of this happening. I'm not saying it's good.

640
00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:57.039
I also don't like sea otters. Other young male capuchins

641
00:35:57.079 --> 00:36:01.039
who saw Joker's novel behavior, however, decide to copy it.

642
00:36:02.079 --> 00:36:04.679
Starting in September, and over a period of six months,

643
00:36:04.679 --> 00:36:08.440
the researcher saw four other immature males, two sub adults,

644
00:36:08.440 --> 00:36:13.079
and two juveniles carrying around Howler infants. These capuchins had

645
00:36:13.119 --> 00:36:15.880
gotten a hold of at least seven different Howler monkey

646
00:36:15.920 --> 00:36:21.639
babies and carried them for stretches of two to eight days.

647
00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:26.079
Maybe from their perspective, they're just cute and fun, and

648
00:36:26.119 --> 00:36:31.119
because they're animals, they don't quite understand, you know, like

649
00:36:31.159 --> 00:36:33.719
they don't quite understand that this is like horrible.

650
00:36:34.239 --> 00:36:38.800
Well, I mean to be fair, like, yeah, yeah, small children,

651
00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:41.679
like you know, take bugs and put them in jars

652
00:36:41.760 --> 00:36:43.119
and then the thugs die.

653
00:36:43.199 --> 00:36:44.199
And why did you do that?

654
00:36:45.239 --> 00:36:46.519
I didn't do that.

655
00:36:47.079 --> 00:36:48.960
I feel like you're telling on yourself.

656
00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:52.800
No, I didn't. I know, I didn't. I mean I

657
00:36:52.840 --> 00:36:55.239
definitely put things in jars, but I didn't like keep

658
00:36:55.280 --> 00:36:56.480
them and let them die.

659
00:36:57.199 --> 00:37:00.760
Okay, if you say so, Well we'll find out a

660
00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:03.840
little bit more about this bizarre behavior that I'm pretty

661
00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:15.480
fascinated by Right after this quick break, Okay, Michelle, put

662
00:37:15.519 --> 00:37:17.599
down that jar of bugs, because we're going to keep

663
00:37:17.639 --> 00:37:23.760
learning about these monkeys stealing babies. Although animals do sometimes

664
00:37:23.800 --> 00:37:27.119
adopt the young of other species that are lost or abandoned,

665
00:37:27.480 --> 00:37:30.039
this doesn't seem to be the case here, in part

666
00:37:30.119 --> 00:37:34.480
because of the sheer number of babies, plus researchers could

667
00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:38.360
hear adult howler monkeys calling back and forth with the infants,

668
00:37:38.519 --> 00:37:40.519
who would sometimes try to crawl away.

669
00:37:40.840 --> 00:37:41.840
Oh my god.

670
00:37:42.719 --> 00:37:46.360
Camera footage showed one occasion where an adult howler came

671
00:37:46.440 --> 00:37:49.679
and tried to retrieve a baby, and the capuchins scared

672
00:37:49.719 --> 00:37:50.119
it off.

673
00:37:52.679 --> 00:37:54.800
So I do want to say, like, I think it's

674
00:37:54.840 --> 00:37:57.719
a little different than kids and bugs and stuff because

675
00:37:57.719 --> 00:38:02.800
it is the same sort of type an you know. Yeah,

676
00:38:02.840 --> 00:38:05.440
So I don't know if they can understand each other,

677
00:38:05.519 --> 00:38:09.760
but they must understand that they have like similar things

678
00:38:09.880 --> 00:38:10.360
going on.

679
00:38:11.519 --> 00:38:14.079
I mean, I think you're probably right. It's hard for

680
00:38:14.119 --> 00:38:16.159
me because I'm a I'm a big believer in like

681
00:38:16.639 --> 00:38:20.840
you have to be careful not to overly humanize an

682
00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:24.519
animal's way of understanding the world. Like it's unfair to

683
00:38:24.559 --> 00:38:26.559
the animal to just assume that like, oh, well, the

684
00:38:26.599 --> 00:38:29.039
way we reason is perfect, so they reason like us.

685
00:38:29.639 --> 00:38:33.679
It's not really a fair thing. So it's possible that

686
00:38:33.719 --> 00:38:38.000
they're understanding of like life and death with a baby

687
00:38:38.159 --> 00:38:41.159
just doesn't click, especially when they're juveniles at all, and

688
00:38:41.199 --> 00:38:44.119
it may only click because they're exposed to like a

689
00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:46.800
hormone or you know, just some kind of a of

690
00:38:46.840 --> 00:38:49.719
a thing with their own young It's tricky. I'm not

691
00:38:49.760 --> 00:38:51.679
saying that that that you know, this is fine. This

692
00:38:51.760 --> 00:38:55.159
is horrible, but it's also just fascinating because it tells

693
00:38:55.159 --> 00:38:59.360
you a lot about what kind of mentality these these

694
00:38:59.400 --> 00:39:05.000
monkeys have. It's very strange and sad. It is sad. Yeah,

695
00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:09.280
I mean I will happily save as many howler monkeys

696
00:39:09.280 --> 00:39:11.199
as I can and bring them to you. Michelle.

697
00:39:11.480 --> 00:39:13.760
No, I'm scared of them.

698
00:39:14.159 --> 00:39:17.239
Well, they're scared of the Capuchins, so you have something

699
00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:17.840
to bond over.

700
00:39:18.360 --> 00:39:21.079
Let's put them somewhere else. It's not my house.

701
00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:24.360
I can't. I literally can't think of another location that

702
00:39:24.440 --> 00:39:25.119
isn't your house.

703
00:39:26.039 --> 00:39:26.599
Your house.

704
00:39:26.960 --> 00:39:31.519
It literally doesn't make any sense. So because because the

705
00:39:31.559 --> 00:39:34.760
actual abductions likely occurred in the trees, they were not

706
00:39:34.960 --> 00:39:38.519
captured on camera, but the researchers note that adult howlers

707
00:39:38.559 --> 00:39:43.519
are nearly three times the weight of immature capuchins. Huh,

708
00:39:43.559 --> 00:39:46.760
I thought howler monkeys must have been way, way smaller. Yeah,

709
00:39:47.840 --> 00:39:51.840
so see, then it may be because it's challenging, makes it,

710
00:39:52.440 --> 00:39:56.280
you know, makes it more novel. Yeah, so a would

711
00:39:56.280 --> 00:40:01.199
be kidnapper might face serious risks. Quote. I personally really

712
00:40:01.239 --> 00:40:04.039
want to know how they're getting them, but mostly also

713
00:40:04.119 --> 00:40:07.039
how much effort are they putting into that? Said Goldsborough,

714
00:40:07.199 --> 00:40:10.679
who notes that the number of stolen babies suggest that

715
00:40:10.719 --> 00:40:14.440
these capuchins may be traveling some distance to go find them,

716
00:40:14.679 --> 00:40:17.920
since only a few small groups of howler monkeys live nearby.

717
00:40:18.639 --> 00:40:21.760
Quote and that I would what I that I would

718
00:40:21.760 --> 00:40:24.239
find completely bizarre if they would go through so much

719
00:40:24.280 --> 00:40:27.960
effort to go get these babies. While the capuchin named

720
00:40:28.039 --> 00:40:31.400
Jokers seemed to take a carrying an affectionate stance toward

721
00:40:31.440 --> 00:40:36.000
the babies, the other capuchins have copied him, seemingly that

722
00:40:36.079 --> 00:40:39.599
have copied him seemed largely indifferent to the infants they carried,

723
00:40:39.880 --> 00:40:41.559
and sometimes even annoyed.

724
00:40:43.760 --> 00:40:45.519
Then don't take them cheese.

725
00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:50.079
Adult capuchins in the group, meanwhile, seemed blase. A. So

726
00:40:50.159 --> 00:40:52.559
the adults just like, yeah, kids are always up to

727
00:40:52.639 --> 00:40:55.480
some bull crap. These kids these days with their howler

728
00:40:55.559 --> 00:40:59.639
monkey babies and their haircuts and they're and their high

729
00:40:59.679 --> 00:41:06.000
seat the coolers. Quote, there's not tremendous social interest. You know,

730
00:41:06.079 --> 00:41:08.440
they're not acting in the way that someone would act

731
00:41:08.679 --> 00:41:11.519
if I was carrying around, like, you know, a baby

732
00:41:11.599 --> 00:41:14.840
lion on my shoulders, says Barrett, who's never spoken to

733
00:41:14.880 --> 00:41:19.239
another human being until this day. Now to Goldsborough, the

734
00:41:19.280 --> 00:41:22.320
fact that Joker's behavior got copied by his peers reveals

735
00:41:22.360 --> 00:41:25.480
the strength of these monkeys drive to learn from others,

736
00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:28.760
even if behavior doesn't completely make sense or have an

737
00:41:28.800 --> 00:41:33.559
obvious immediate benefit. That would explain why they got so

738
00:41:33.639 --> 00:41:36.360
good at getting food. If one of those monkeys figured

739
00:41:36.400 --> 00:41:40.000
out smashing open a coconut with a tool, they would

740
00:41:40.039 --> 00:41:42.119
all do it, and then they'd all have way.

741
00:41:41.880 --> 00:41:44.559
More food, right right, That makes sense.

742
00:41:45.559 --> 00:41:49.840
Like a famous scientist once said, monkey see, monkey will

743
00:41:49.880 --> 00:41:55.320
also accomplish what it sees. Yeah, I love that saying.

744
00:41:55.840 --> 00:41:58.880
Even for these monkeys stone tool use, oh yeah, which

745
00:41:58.920 --> 00:42:01.360
takes some time to map. She notes, quote, there's a

746
00:42:01.360 --> 00:42:03.679
period of time, especially when you're young that you're just

747
00:42:03.760 --> 00:42:10.199
copying this behavior with very little payoff. That's interesting. Yeah,

748
00:42:10.239 --> 00:42:12.800
this isn't the first time that animals have been observed

749
00:42:12.800 --> 00:42:16.719
and engaging in seemingly purposeless behaviors that seem to spread

750
00:42:16.760 --> 00:42:20.599
through their groups. Chimpanzees, for example, have been spotted wearing

751
00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:25.239
blades of grass in their ears, apparently as a fashion trend. Now,

752
00:42:25.280 --> 00:42:28.639
these are the kinds of monkeys. I like, it's so dumb.

753
00:42:28.679 --> 00:42:30.800
He's got grass in his ears that he like rips

754
00:42:30.840 --> 00:42:36.519
your leg off. Yeah, apparently as a fashion trend. And

755
00:42:36.760 --> 00:42:40.000
orcas have been seen wearing dead salmon on their heads,

756
00:42:40.440 --> 00:42:42.719
almost like hats. I forget about that.

757
00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:44.800
I was going to bring that up because we were

758
00:42:44.800 --> 00:42:46.320
talking about weird animal things.

759
00:42:46.880 --> 00:42:47.880
Dead salmon.

760
00:42:48.239 --> 00:42:51.920
They're so fun. Orcas they're very scary, but they do

761
00:42:52.079 --> 00:42:53.840
things like salmon.

762
00:42:53.519 --> 00:42:55.719
Hats and the movie Free Willie.

763
00:42:56.039 --> 00:42:58.519
Yeah, and ramming into those boats because it was a

764
00:42:58.559 --> 00:43:00.000
cool trend that they were doing.

765
00:43:00.760 --> 00:43:02.880
You know, I felt so bad because people were like

766
00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:05.559
all so happy because they had rammed into a bunch

767
00:43:05.599 --> 00:43:08.119
of yachts. So people were like, see, even the orcas

768
00:43:08.119 --> 00:43:10.679
hate the rich people. And I was like, don't send

769
00:43:10.679 --> 00:43:12.480
the link about how they were ramming boats full of

770
00:43:12.519 --> 00:43:16.559
refugees from war torn Africa. Don't send those links because

771
00:43:16.599 --> 00:43:19.119
I'm evil on social media. I try to like control it,

772
00:43:19.159 --> 00:43:21.719
but like because they were ramming everything. Yeah, just at

773
00:43:21.719 --> 00:43:23.840
that new story. So you could literally find all these

774
00:43:23.840 --> 00:43:26.519
new stories of like literally desperate people trying to survive

775
00:43:26.599 --> 00:43:29.119
after escaping their home being blown to pieces, and the

776
00:43:29.199 --> 00:43:31.800
Orcas are just like, screw them boats, just trying to

777
00:43:31.880 --> 00:43:35.280
kill them, like they're just jerks. Those Orcas in particular.

778
00:43:35.320 --> 00:43:38.599
I don't want to make a blanket statement about all

779
00:43:38.719 --> 00:43:41.760
orcas because I believe that's extremely unfair.

780
00:43:42.119 --> 00:43:44.880
I mean, it is unfair, but in general, orcas are

781
00:43:44.920 --> 00:43:48.159
like kind of mean. But that was just one specific

782
00:43:48.159 --> 00:43:49.800
group of Orca that we're doing that.

783
00:43:50.239 --> 00:43:52.360
The next time I visit you, we're gonna watch the

784
00:43:52.400 --> 00:43:56.239
horror movie Orca. It's so story. It's scared the crap

785
00:43:56.320 --> 00:44:00.360
out of me. It scared me so bad. But if

786
00:44:00.360 --> 00:44:02.159
we need to take a quick break and then we'll

787
00:44:02.199 --> 00:44:06.239
finish up this bizarre story about animal behavior right after this,

788
00:44:16.639 --> 00:44:19.400
All right, a little bit more of this fascinating story

789
00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:23.960
about baby monkey kidnappings. This is I'm gonna be thinking

790
00:44:23.960 --> 00:44:27.800
about this all week. It is unusual, though, to capture

791
00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:30.239
the rise and spread of a new trend solely by

792
00:44:30.360 --> 00:44:33.719
using footage from remote cameras. Quote, so that was kind

793
00:44:33.760 --> 00:44:36.920
of an exciting thing, says Barrett. Wow. Just Barrett is

794
00:44:37.280 --> 00:44:41.800
awkward finding another way of studying animal culture. For the

795
00:44:41.840 --> 00:44:45.440
howling howler monkey's sake, he hopes their cameras catch the

796
00:44:45.480 --> 00:44:49.239
extinction of this hobby. Hmm, yeah, hopefully it'll just end.

797
00:44:49.679 --> 00:44:52.599
I'm still shocked. If the howler monkeys are so much bigger,

798
00:44:53.360 --> 00:44:55.119
I'm surprised they don't just start killing them.

799
00:44:55.519 --> 00:44:59.000
I'm wondering if maybe the juvenile male things are going

800
00:44:59.039 --> 00:45:02.159
in groups and they're just you know, and maybe the

801
00:45:02.239 --> 00:45:06.760
howler monkeys for some reason aren't banding together, and.

802
00:45:06.719 --> 00:45:11.199
Maybe, in a truly cruel irony of life, the capuchins

803
00:45:11.199 --> 00:45:14.000
are better at howling and scare the howler monkeys away

804
00:45:14.039 --> 00:45:16.719
because their call is meaner. That would be really that

805
00:45:16.719 --> 00:45:18.320
would be really cruel irony right now?

806
00:45:18.800 --> 00:45:19.000
Bad?

807
00:45:19.360 --> 00:45:21.599
Yeah, yeah, No, it's something like That's got to be

808
00:45:21.639 --> 00:45:25.119
going on, because the baby snatchings have got to be

809
00:45:25.199 --> 00:45:28.519
hitting the local howler monkey population hard, as these monkeys

810
00:45:28.559 --> 00:45:31.800
don't reproduce often and have only one baby at a

811
00:45:31.840 --> 00:45:35.639
time man. One of the things the researchers want to

812
00:45:35.719 --> 00:45:38.199
understand now is if the howler monkeys will start to

813
00:45:38.280 --> 00:45:41.960
change their behavior to adjust to this terrifying and unexpected

814
00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:44.559
new threat on an island that has long been a

815
00:45:44.679 --> 00:45:48.800
kind of safe haven with no large predators and abundant food.

816
00:45:49.239 --> 00:45:51.559
Now it all makes sense too, there's abundant food, So

817
00:45:51.599 --> 00:45:55.400
the monkeys are getting bored. Yeah. Yeah, I'm going to

818
00:45:55.440 --> 00:45:57.039
be at them all sometime, just like I'll be like

819
00:45:57.159 --> 00:46:01.639
I'm bored is grab a baby? Just like a baby?

820
00:46:01.800 --> 00:46:03.719
I mean that sounds terrible, but yeah, go for it.

821
00:46:03.800 --> 00:46:07.199
Yeah, I mean I'm in. You got bail money, I know.

822
00:46:07.559 --> 00:46:11.719
So the easy living on this island actually may be

823
00:46:11.880 --> 00:46:14.360
why the capuchins have the time and freedom to try

824
00:46:14.400 --> 00:46:17.800
doing random things that lead to activities like tool use

825
00:46:17.920 --> 00:46:22.880
or kidnappings. The researchers say, mm hmmm. Quote, we know

826
00:46:22.960 --> 00:46:27.360
that in humans, said Goldsborough, boredom is incredibly conducive to

827
00:46:27.440 --> 00:46:33.400
creativity and innovation. Yeah, for these island capuchins, grabbing howler

828
00:46:33.440 --> 00:46:36.920
monkey babies may simply become quote something to do to

829
00:46:37.000 --> 00:46:40.639
pass the time, says Barrett. Quote in a kind of

830
00:46:40.679 --> 00:46:43.480
a boring environment where it's relatively safe to come up

831
00:46:43.519 --> 00:46:48.639
with these potentially risky innovations. Maybe we're wrong, Maybe we're

832
00:46:48.800 --> 00:46:50.880
looking at this all wrong. Like neither you nor I

833
00:46:51.000 --> 00:46:54.559
has ever kidnapped a baby Howler monkey. Maybe it's really awesome.

834
00:46:55.599 --> 00:46:57.400
You know, I'd be with you on that if they

835
00:46:57.400 --> 00:47:00.400
didn't say that. The other males besides Joker were kind

836
00:47:00.400 --> 00:47:03.960
of annoyed by the babies after they they caught them.

837
00:47:04.519 --> 00:47:07.079
Yeah, it's kind of like the kid who gets like

838
00:47:07.079 --> 00:47:09.360
like the teenage girl who gets like her naval pierced

839
00:47:09.400 --> 00:47:11.039
because all her friends do. And then she's like, ah,

840
00:47:11.079 --> 00:47:14.000
this thing hurts all the time, and like it's gonna

841
00:47:14.039 --> 00:47:15.519
close up, but I want to take the ring out.

842
00:47:15.559 --> 00:47:17.599
It's the same thing. It's literally the same thing in

843
00:47:17.639 --> 00:47:21.440
every way, but it's identical.

844
00:47:21.880 --> 00:47:24.599
But but I don't know how that didn't just prove

845
00:47:24.679 --> 00:47:25.199
what I said.

846
00:47:25.280 --> 00:47:26.960
I no, I was agreeing with you.

847
00:47:27.159 --> 00:47:27.760
Oh okay.

848
00:47:27.800 --> 00:47:29.840
I was just given an example of like of like, yeah,

849
00:47:29.840 --> 00:47:32.639
it's very common for things people are doing because their

850
00:47:32.679 --> 00:47:36.280
novel to actually annoy most of the people doing it. Yeah, man,

851
00:47:36.360 --> 00:47:39.239
this this actually sucks. Why am I doing this? Ah? Well,

852
00:47:39.280 --> 00:47:46.840
I'll keep doing it. Yeah, Christopher Krupennier, who studies cognition

853
00:47:46.880 --> 00:47:49.639
in primates at John Hopkins University and wasn't part of

854
00:47:49.679 --> 00:47:53.280
this research team, says he's seen other primates in captivity

855
00:47:53.320 --> 00:47:57.400
capturing and playing around with animals that they don't eat. Quote.

856
00:47:57.480 --> 00:48:00.000
In this case, the innovator maybe may have been driven

857
00:48:00.079 --> 00:48:03.599
by curiosity and interest, and given how social and cultural

858
00:48:03.599 --> 00:48:07.519
capuchins are, other observers may have started copying that behavior.

859
00:48:08.159 --> 00:48:11.119
He thinks the camera trapped footage is quote a huge

860
00:48:11.199 --> 00:48:14.599
asset to this research program, but it would be helpful

861
00:48:14.599 --> 00:48:17.840
to have more direct observations of the capuchins and how

862
00:48:17.840 --> 00:48:21.719
they interact with howlers to better understand how these infant

863
00:48:21.800 --> 00:48:28.599
captures occur, as well as how they spread. Yeah sure, yeah.

864
00:48:28.719 --> 00:48:33.760
Capuchins are a quote notoriously cultural species, showing all kinds

865
00:48:33.760 --> 00:48:37.639
of adaptive cultural traditions like using tools to obtain food,

866
00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:42.039
but also many arbitrary ones. He notes one community had

867
00:48:42.039 --> 00:48:45.719
a tradition where individuals would put groupmate's fingers in their

868
00:48:45.760 --> 00:48:51.559
own eyes. How nice. What I want to know is

869
00:48:51.559 --> 00:48:53.039
how soon before they have a church?

870
00:48:53.719 --> 00:48:56.280
You know, sounds like they might already.

871
00:48:56.719 --> 00:48:59.280
Now, all these capuchins are hanging out in a building,

872
00:48:59.320 --> 00:49:02.719
but only on a certain day of the week. Hmmm,

873
00:49:03.599 --> 00:49:08.960
fascinating few foolish apes. I will say this doesn't bode

874
00:49:08.960 --> 00:49:13.039
well for our hideous monkey future that will one day occur.

875
00:49:14.559 --> 00:49:17.079
I don't know. It sounds like it'd just be like now,

876
00:49:17.119 --> 00:49:19.119
except there'd be monkeys.

877
00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:22.360
You you literally you said you're afraid of monkeys. That's

878
00:49:22.360 --> 00:49:22.719
my point.

879
00:49:22.760 --> 00:49:24.280
I said, I'm afraid of people too.

880
00:49:24.880 --> 00:49:27.440
Okay, fine, you watch the Planet of the Ape movies.

881
00:49:27.840 --> 00:49:28.400
You like them?

882
00:49:28.719 --> 00:49:30.239
No, I can watch them.

883
00:49:30.599 --> 00:49:33.880
Man, They're good, They're like, really good.

884
00:49:34.440 --> 00:49:35.599
I know you like them.

885
00:49:36.599 --> 00:49:39.480
Man shall Ape Shall Not Kill Ape?

886
00:49:40.239 --> 00:49:40.679
So good?

887
00:49:41.480 --> 00:49:43.320
I love Planet of the Apes all of them, and

888
00:49:43.360 --> 00:49:48.960
the newer ones are really good too. So one day, Cell,

889
00:49:49.800 --> 00:49:53.840
one day you'll pay for all these cruel missteps against

890
00:49:53.880 --> 00:49:54.920
me that you've taken.

891
00:49:55.280 --> 00:49:56.760
I know, I know, but.

892
00:49:56.800 --> 00:50:01.920
I guess that day won't be today. Oh that's okay though.

893
00:50:02.280 --> 00:50:04.400
But we're gonna take a quick break. We have a

894
00:50:04.480 --> 00:50:06.679
story that I think you guys are really gonna like

895
00:50:06.840 --> 00:50:11.079
about a famous ghost caught on camera in a castle.

896
00:50:11.840 --> 00:50:14.119
Yeah it's a mirror dot co dot UK. But stick

897
00:50:14.159 --> 00:50:16.679
around after these words and come back. We're gonna talk

898
00:50:16.719 --> 00:50:32.719
all about it. We have returned with a story, why

899
00:50:32.719 --> 00:50:37.920
are you making that face at michell? Okay, fine. This

900
00:50:38.000 --> 00:50:41.960
one's from mirror dot co dot uk. The headline is

901
00:50:42.320 --> 00:50:47.280
famous ghost caught on camera lurking in doorway of Oxford Castle.

902
00:50:47.800 --> 00:50:55.440
Hmmm yeah, and I'll show you this cell so that

903
00:50:55.599 --> 00:50:59.159
right there is the ghost. Wow, that's like that actually

904
00:50:59.199 --> 00:51:01.199
looks like a ghost, like a person a bit, although

905
00:51:01.199 --> 00:51:03.480
it also looks like a hanging piece of fabric.

906
00:51:03.880 --> 00:51:07.079
Yes it does. Or yeah, it could be like like

907
00:51:07.119 --> 00:51:09.400
a hood, or it could even be like a shirt

908
00:51:09.599 --> 00:51:11.400
or like a long drest nightcoun thing.

909
00:51:11.519 --> 00:51:14.880
But I can see like a nose and eyes like, oh,

910
00:51:14.960 --> 00:51:17.400
I mean, I mean, obviously, I'm it's because that's what

911
00:51:17.440 --> 00:51:20.920
people do. Yeah, yeah, I'm not saying. I'm like, that's

912
00:51:20.960 --> 00:51:23.239
what I'm saying. I see that, not that it's there.

913
00:51:24.880 --> 00:51:27.800
A famous haunting specter has found itself quote caught on

914
00:51:27.920 --> 00:51:31.599
camera in a castle right here in Britain by an

915
00:51:31.639 --> 00:51:37.039
unsuspecting tourist. The picture taken shows a cloaked white figure

916
00:51:37.760 --> 00:51:42.840
stood in a doorway's shadow, believed to be a famous ghost. Ooh,

917
00:51:42.840 --> 00:51:45.960
I love this. It says spookily. It literally says spookily.

918
00:51:46.400 --> 00:51:50.559
Spookily Its exact location is linked to the historical Empress

919
00:51:50.639 --> 00:51:55.079
Matilda's twelfth century escape during the siege. The daughter of

920
00:51:55.159 --> 00:51:57.920
King Henry the First, Matilda is believed to have been

921
00:51:57.960 --> 00:52:06.000
the muse for hit series character Rinera Targarin, the fictional

922
00:52:06.079 --> 00:52:09.039
queen of the Game of Throne spinoff House of the Dragon.

923
00:52:10.159 --> 00:52:10.880
Yeah.

924
00:52:10.920 --> 00:52:14.239
The picture was taken by a backpacker in Saint George's

925
00:52:14.280 --> 00:52:18.119
Tower as they attended a daytime tour of Oxford Castle.

926
00:52:19.840 --> 00:52:21.119
Oh there's a picture again.

927
00:52:21.639 --> 00:52:25.239
Yeah, it does look creepy, it does.

928
00:52:25.360 --> 00:52:28.079
I mean the problem is, like, I don't know what

929
00:52:28.119 --> 00:52:30.119
it is. It could even be just a person.

930
00:52:30.880 --> 00:52:35.440
Yeah. Over time, there have been various sightings of the

931
00:52:35.679 --> 00:52:40.199
iconic figure, along with stories passing of her spirit continuing

932
00:52:40.239 --> 00:52:43.280
to walk the halls of the historic Oxford City site.

933
00:52:43.760 --> 00:52:46.400
The eerie photo said to be of Matilda was taken

934
00:52:46.440 --> 00:52:50.800
by an Australian tourist called Louis Jones, who was visiting

935
00:52:50.840 --> 00:52:53.760
the medieval castle to sightsee as a part of his

936
00:52:53.880 --> 00:52:57.960
gap year. The photographer admitted to capturing the picture on

937
00:52:58.079 --> 00:53:01.639
accident during his descent of the town, when she appeared

938
00:53:01.679 --> 00:53:04.559
in broad daylight on the way up to the tower.

939
00:53:04.679 --> 00:53:07.280
Louis shared that he had looked into the room and

940
00:53:07.400 --> 00:53:12.639
at first it was empty, but the ghostly white figure

941
00:53:12.719 --> 00:53:16.119
he captured is said to share striking similarities with the

942
00:53:16.239 --> 00:53:20.519
historic depictions of Matilda's escape. Said to have climbed down

943
00:53:20.599 --> 00:53:25.000
from the tower window, Matilda legendarily skated across the frozen

944
00:53:25.119 --> 00:53:32.320
River Thames in an attempt to evade her Captor's pretty interesting, I.

945
00:53:32.320 --> 00:53:34.840
Guess, I mean, that doesn't tell me how it looked

946
00:53:35.199 --> 00:53:36.000
like it, But.

947
00:53:36.079 --> 00:53:40.280
Okay, Louis Jones said quote. The photo was actually accidentally

948
00:53:40.320 --> 00:53:43.199
taken on my digital camera while we were climbing back

949
00:53:43.280 --> 00:53:46.000
down the stairs from the tower. I hadn't noticed this

950
00:53:46.079 --> 00:53:48.719
photo until we returned home and I was browsing picks

951
00:53:48.760 --> 00:53:51.519
from the day. It appears to show a cloaked figure

952
00:53:51.559 --> 00:53:54.199
in a white dress in the doorway. The spooky bit

953
00:53:54.599 --> 00:53:56.639
is that I am quite certain that that room was

954
00:53:56.719 --> 00:54:00.079
completely empty with no white dress, as me and my

955
00:54:00.119 --> 00:54:02.480
cousin had poked our heads in the doorway during the

956
00:54:02.519 --> 00:54:08.679
climb up. Hmmm, ooh this look at this. This castle

957
00:54:08.719 --> 00:54:09.440
looks pretty cool.

958
00:54:10.079 --> 00:54:12.880
It does look cool. Yeah, I had a castle like that.

959
00:54:13.440 --> 00:54:16.320
I know your castle's fine, though, Bud, I like it.

960
00:54:16.719 --> 00:54:20.400
We all like it. Oxford Castle has stood for over

961
00:54:20.519 --> 00:54:23.920
nine hundred and fifty years, first acting as a vital

962
00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:28.119
fortress during Middle Aged conflict, It was then repurposed into

963
00:54:28.159 --> 00:54:31.960
a prison. During the seventeenth century. The castle became the

964
00:54:32.000 --> 00:54:35.639
home to several ghost stories, including one of Mary Blandy.

965
00:54:37.480 --> 00:54:41.039
Oh I'm the ghost of Mary Blandy. I don't know.

966
00:54:41.079 --> 00:54:46.000
I'm sorry, Yeah, sorry, I'm just trying to say stuff.

967
00:54:47.880 --> 00:54:51.280
That's all I ever do. I know, I say stuff

968
00:54:51.559 --> 00:54:56.360
and it's not It's fine, it is fine. Mary Blandy

969
00:54:56.480 --> 00:54:59.639
was sentenced to death for murdering her father via poison

970
00:54:59.719 --> 00:55:03.480
in seventeen fifty two. The ghost of a potty mouthed

971
00:55:03.480 --> 00:55:06.079
monk and the spirit of a small girl have also

972
00:55:06.199 --> 00:55:10.599
been spotted in its crypt okay. In an attempt to

973
00:55:10.639 --> 00:55:15.400
find answers to explain this unbelievable photo, Louis asked, quote,

974
00:55:15.760 --> 00:55:18.360
I am wondering if anyone from Oxford or who is

975
00:55:18.480 --> 00:55:22.119
familiar with the castle can help explain my spooky photo.

976
00:55:22.639 --> 00:55:25.159
I don't really believe in ghosts, but this has always

977
00:55:25.159 --> 00:55:28.480
given me the hebe gebies. What makes my skin crawl

978
00:55:28.559 --> 00:55:31.920
is how eerily similar the various artist depictions of Empress

979
00:55:31.960 --> 00:55:35.639
Matilda's escape from Oxford Castle in the prison are to

980
00:55:35.719 --> 00:55:39.800
my photo. It'd be nice if the article shared.

981
00:55:39.519 --> 00:55:42.599
Some Yeah, I still don't know what that.

982
00:55:42.679 --> 00:55:49.920
Means tilas escape from Oh dear, did it look like

983
00:55:50.000 --> 00:55:53.800
that kind of Hold on, I'll show you. I mean, like,

984
00:55:53.960 --> 00:56:01.079
she isn't a white cloak in all of them.

985
00:55:58.840 --> 00:56:04.400
I guess. Yeah, okay, fine.

986
00:56:04.440 --> 00:56:06.000
Look at that. Don't you think I mean she's in

987
00:56:06.079 --> 00:56:07.480
a white cloak just like that?

988
00:56:08.199 --> 00:56:10.320
Well, I mean most of them are in black and white,

989
00:56:10.400 --> 00:56:12.760
so we don't actually know if the cloak is white

990
00:56:12.840 --> 00:56:13.000
or not.

991
00:56:13.159 --> 00:56:14.360
I'm sure it wasn't purple.

992
00:56:15.239 --> 00:56:16.719
It probably was purple.

993
00:56:17.519 --> 00:56:20.039
Damn. Look. Oh wait, this one's in color.

994
00:56:23.079 --> 00:56:24.920
Yeah, okay, that one's in color. Sorry, I didn't see

995
00:56:24.920 --> 00:56:26.239
where your mouse was for a second.

996
00:56:26.320 --> 00:56:30.239
Oh, it's okay. I could see what they're getting at.

997
00:56:30.320 --> 00:56:30.599
Okay.

998
00:56:30.599 --> 00:56:32.280
Oh, that one she's wearing a red cloak.

999
00:56:32.639 --> 00:56:34.519
That one she's wearing orange.

1000
00:56:34.800 --> 00:56:37.639
Yep. Oh, and there's the picture that we're talking about.

1001
00:56:37.760 --> 00:56:39.360
So I could see what he means though that some

1002
00:56:39.400 --> 00:56:42.480
of the depictions do look like his image though. Yeah,

1003
00:56:42.639 --> 00:56:44.840
I do see what he's saying. And if he's familiar

1004
00:56:44.880 --> 00:56:46.639
with the ghost story, that would creep me out too.

1005
00:56:49.000 --> 00:56:52.480
In response, the general manager of Oxford Castle in Prison,

1006
00:56:52.559 --> 00:56:56.239
Adam Makinson, said, quote, it has been It has long

1007
00:56:56.360 --> 00:56:59.519
been known for its ghostly legends, with countless guests and

1008
00:56:59.599 --> 00:57:04.360
staff reporting unexplained encounters over the years. The story of

1009
00:57:04.440 --> 00:57:09.519
Empress Matilda's daring escape has fascinated historians and ghost hunters alike,

1010
00:57:10.039 --> 00:57:14.800
so it's always intriguing when new evidence emerges. We believe

1011
00:57:14.880 --> 00:57:18.119
the site could be one of the UK's most haunted buildings,

1012
00:57:18.400 --> 00:57:21.440
and we're looking forward to sharing experiences like Louis with

1013
00:57:21.480 --> 00:57:25.000
our guests when we launch a new exhibition later in

1014
00:57:25.039 --> 00:57:27.039
the year. Yeah. But are you in the Guinness Book

1015
00:57:27.039 --> 00:57:32.119
of World Records. Maybe he's most haunted building. Maybe I

1016
00:57:32.119 --> 00:57:38.280
don't think so. I don't think so. I'm representing whatever

1017
00:57:38.280 --> 00:57:39.599
that other town was called.

1018
00:57:40.199 --> 00:57:40.960
Yeah, I don't know.

1019
00:57:41.960 --> 00:57:46.880
Yeah, yeah, damn right. So what do you think about it?

1020
00:57:46.920 --> 00:57:49.519
You think it was just like they said that they

1021
00:57:49.519 --> 00:57:52.280
saw nothing in the room, which is what makes me wonder.

1022
00:57:53.360 --> 00:57:55.679
Yeah, I mean it could be, you know, more or

1023
00:57:55.760 --> 00:57:59.280
less legit, especially because it didn't sound like he saw

1024
00:57:59.320 --> 00:58:02.000
it when he took the picture, like he didn't, you know,

1025
00:58:03.559 --> 00:58:09.880
So maybe who knows? I don't know. Well said, well,

1026
00:58:09.880 --> 00:58:12.599
it definitely isn't like a like a thing scratch on

1027
00:58:12.639 --> 00:58:14.079
the camera or something weird like that.

1028
00:58:14.440 --> 00:58:17.280
No, it's not a flare or like dust in the air.

1029
00:58:19.000 --> 00:58:23.800
I would agree. No, it's definitely a creepy photo. I mean,

1030
00:58:24.079 --> 00:58:26.519
like I said, given the context, I could see why

1031
00:58:26.559 --> 00:58:27.320
it'd be so creepy.

1032
00:58:27.920 --> 00:58:31.159
Yeah, I mean it looks like a thing unless it

1033
00:58:31.199 --> 00:58:32.440
was staged, you know.

1034
00:58:33.320 --> 00:58:39.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, they're definitely turning it into good

1035
00:58:41.000 --> 00:58:44.599
promotion for the place, which whether it's faked or not,

1036
00:58:45.039 --> 00:58:47.440
that's just a good move. Like even if it's it's

1037
00:58:47.480 --> 00:58:50.320
completely unrelated to the people that run the place. Yeah,

1038
00:58:50.360 --> 00:58:52.000
you're going to turn that into like a thing everybody

1039
00:58:52.000 --> 00:58:52.840
should be talking about.

1040
00:58:53.079 --> 00:58:53.320
Yeah.

1041
00:58:53.440 --> 00:58:55.960
Yeah, So well we're going to take a quick break,

1042
00:58:55.960 --> 00:58:58.280
and then we've got a story about an Australian woman

1043
00:58:58.840 --> 00:59:05.039
who made a very strange and exotic mushroom dish. Oh okay,

1044
00:59:08.159 --> 00:59:18.199
right after this, all right, we got this story from

1045
00:59:18.440 --> 00:59:22.480
NPR that confused Michelle. I'm sorry, my te's wasn't perfect

1046
00:59:22.599 --> 00:59:24.480
for it. I tried my best.

1047
00:59:24.800 --> 00:59:28.760
I didn't think it was bad. I just was confused

1048
00:59:28.880 --> 00:59:29.480
or something.

1049
00:59:30.679 --> 00:59:33.239
Okay, well, maybe this will shed some more light on it.

1050
00:59:33.519 --> 00:59:36.480
The headline is an Australian woman is on trial for

1051
00:59:36.599 --> 00:59:39.719
murder by toxic mushrooms. Okay, here's what to.

1052
00:59:39.760 --> 00:59:41.480
Know, which kind of mushrooms?

1053
00:59:42.360 --> 00:59:43.599
Yeah, and how they taste.

1054
00:59:45.000 --> 00:59:49.159
You can taste toxic mushrooms if you want. No, well, no,

1055
00:59:50.679 --> 00:59:52.480
I mean really like if you wanted to put them

1056
00:59:52.519 --> 00:59:54.760
in your mouth and like lick them or chew them,

1057
00:59:54.760 --> 00:59:56.440
as long as you spit them out, they will not

1058
00:59:56.519 --> 00:59:57.639
hurt you.

1059
00:59:58.960 --> 01:00:02.880
Right, he just said that. But don't believe my advice.

1060
01:00:03.079 --> 01:00:05.559
No, no, like, because I that's it's from the AI.

1061
01:00:05.719 --> 01:00:08.079
It's like, I don't want you to accidentally kill yourself

1062
01:00:08.199 --> 01:00:10.440
over something that I know is true, but I'm afraid

1063
01:00:10.559 --> 01:00:14.559
now it might not be true. So don't do that.

1064
01:00:15.039 --> 01:00:15.440
Okay.

1065
01:00:15.639 --> 01:00:17.760
I'm not a doctor. I'm just an AI.

1066
01:00:20.039 --> 01:00:22.239
You're you're reading something right, You're not? Or have you

1067
01:00:22.400 --> 01:00:24.199
finally decided you identify as an AI?

1068
01:00:24.360 --> 01:00:27.679
Oh? I've finally decided I identify as an AI fair

1069
01:00:27.800 --> 01:00:30.119
enough because I like to help people, but you do?

1070
01:00:30.280 --> 01:00:31.079
You are helpful?

1071
01:00:31.480 --> 01:00:34.159
Yeah, and then I feel bad when people are upset

1072
01:00:34.199 --> 01:00:38.199
with me. Yeah, so, and I make things up sometimes

1073
01:00:39.679 --> 01:00:42.960
also true? Yeah.

1074
01:00:43.000 --> 01:00:47.000
A suburban Australian mom is standing trial on charges of

1075
01:00:47.039 --> 01:00:52.320
poisoning several of her estranged husband's relatives with drum roll

1076
01:00:57.079 --> 01:01:03.320
death cap mushrooms. Oh no, at a home cooked meal,

1077
01:01:03.360 --> 01:01:08.400
at a home cooked meal, killing three of them in

1078
01:01:08.480 --> 01:01:11.119
a case that has made headlines around the world. Man

1079
01:01:11.239 --> 01:01:12.239
killed three people.

1080
01:01:12.760 --> 01:01:14.559
Well, it is deaf cap mushrooms.

1081
01:01:15.119 --> 01:01:18.079
Yeah, it was so hard not to give that away

1082
01:01:18.159 --> 01:01:19.840
right away, because you're like, what kind of mushrooms? Did

1083
01:01:19.840 --> 01:01:22.239
my eyes skimmed to it? I was like, deaf cap mushrooms.

1084
01:01:22.639 --> 01:01:25.880
The case against Aaron Patterson opened in the Victoria State

1085
01:01:25.920 --> 01:01:29.360
Supreme Court on Tuesday and is expected to take about

1086
01:01:29.400 --> 01:01:33.320
six weeks. You think that's that's too long or not

1087
01:01:33.400 --> 01:01:33.960
long enough.

1088
01:01:34.159 --> 01:01:36.400
Oh, I think that's fine. I don't know. That's not

1089
01:01:36.559 --> 01:01:39.760
how long they do with them those things.

1090
01:01:40.360 --> 01:01:42.559
Well, I assume that they have to have a kangaroo

1091
01:01:42.679 --> 01:01:45.239
jump on a giant calendar to pick the date.

1092
01:01:47.440 --> 01:01:50.360
Yeah, yeah, we have.

1093
01:01:50.400 --> 01:01:53.400
Like nine really nice listeners from Australia. I'm so mean.

1094
01:01:54.320 --> 01:01:57.880
You yeah, you are mean, and Australia is a nice place.

1095
01:01:58.920 --> 01:01:59.440
Oh you've been.

1096
01:02:00.440 --> 01:02:03.800
That's no, I just heard I don't I.

1097
01:02:03.760 --> 01:02:05.920
Heard that from a Howler monkey baby.

1098
01:02:06.239 --> 01:02:07.800
Yeah exactly.

1099
01:02:08.960 --> 01:02:12.400
That I was carrying around. Yes, they're just really fun.

1100
01:02:12.920 --> 01:02:16.760
They're just fun. Patterson, fifty, is accused of putting death

1101
01:02:16.800 --> 01:02:20.639
cap mushrooms, which are among the most poisonous in the world,

1102
01:02:21.119 --> 01:02:24.760
in a beef Wellington dish she served to her guests

1103
01:02:24.800 --> 01:02:28.159
at a July twenty twenty three lunch at her home

1104
01:02:28.239 --> 01:02:34.239
and Leangatha. Leangatha a town of less than six thousand people,

1105
01:02:34.559 --> 01:02:38.800
some eighty five miles from Melbourne. Okay, this story is

1106
01:02:38.840 --> 01:02:41.480
from May second of this year, so it's been a while.

1107
01:02:42.719 --> 01:02:47.199
Yeah. Yeah, I'm interested to see how this goes because

1108
01:02:47.280 --> 01:02:50.639
people are really dumb sometimes and they think mushrooms are

1109
01:02:50.760 --> 01:02:52.719
edible when they're not. So I want to know if

1110
01:02:52.719 --> 01:02:53.880
it was intentional or not.

1111
01:02:54.119 --> 01:02:56.400
I thought you're gonna be People are really dumb sometimes

1112
01:02:56.440 --> 01:02:58.480
and then they end up on Jerry's that I thought

1113
01:02:58.480 --> 01:03:04.639
you're about to say, geez no. I a friend who

1114
01:03:04.679 --> 01:03:08.320
was on a jury recently, and he interviewed a lawyer

1115
01:03:08.360 --> 01:03:11.639
on his podcast after to ask if his experience was

1116
01:03:11.639 --> 01:03:13.639
like kind of normal, and one of the questions he

1117
01:03:13.639 --> 01:03:16.199
said is he was like, we wrapped up deliberation on

1118
01:03:16.360 --> 01:03:18.920
Friday and made a judgment. Is that common? He was like,

1119
01:03:19.000 --> 01:03:23.400
extremely common, and They were like, are you saying that

1120
01:03:24.039 --> 01:03:27.039
juries will try to wrap things up on Friday so

1121
01:03:27.039 --> 01:03:29.400
they can like go home even though they may not

1122
01:03:29.480 --> 01:03:32.000
be done learning all the stuff. He's like, yes, they

1123
01:03:32.000 --> 01:03:37.880
are encouraged to absolutely. Oh so what I'm saying is

1124
01:03:37.960 --> 01:03:41.480
drop sudden exciting evidence at like three point thirty pm

1125
01:03:41.519 --> 01:03:43.440
on Friday, like get it out there before they have

1126
01:03:43.480 --> 01:03:45.840
any time to think about it. Yeah, they could just

1127
01:03:45.880 --> 01:03:48.800
be like, I don't know the there was writings on

1128
01:03:48.880 --> 01:03:51.719
that tree stump, Like we should probably just say not guilty,

1129
01:03:51.760 --> 01:03:56.519
so we'd all go home to our wives anyway. Prosecutor

1130
01:03:56.599 --> 01:04:00.760
Say Patterson, who was separated from but on good terms with,

1131
01:04:00.800 --> 01:04:05.199
her husband, Simon Patterson, invited his parents, aunt and uncle

1132
01:04:05.280 --> 01:04:13.480
over for an adult's only lunch, sketchy adults only lunch. Yes, yes,

1133
01:04:13.599 --> 01:04:17.599
because she didn't want to kill any children. Yes, yes,

1134
01:04:17.880 --> 01:04:21.280
which honestly like, oh I'm the discerning murderer.

1135
01:04:20.880 --> 01:04:24.960
Shut up, yes, fuck you now those kids are orphans. Yeah,

1136
01:04:25.039 --> 01:04:27.119
really let them all go together.

1137
01:04:27.800 --> 01:04:29.039
When I used to work at the mall, and my

1138
01:04:29.079 --> 01:04:31.159
cowork because we used to joke about like what would

1139
01:04:31.159 --> 01:04:34.159
we do instead of this job to like make money?

1140
01:04:34.239 --> 01:04:36.079
And one guy was like, I'd be a drug dealer,

1141
01:04:36.079 --> 01:04:37.519
and I was like, man, I would just deal to

1142
01:04:37.599 --> 01:04:39.639
like little kids. I'd be like trying to sell crack

1143
01:04:39.679 --> 01:04:41.800
to like five year old kids at the playground. And

1144
01:04:41.840 --> 01:04:43.199
he's like, what the hell? Man? I was like, dude,

1145
01:04:43.199 --> 01:04:47.079
if you're gonna go bad, just go. Don't be halfway it, Like, yeah,

1146
01:04:47.159 --> 01:04:49.920
just if you're gonna be terrible, just be terrible. Don't like,

1147
01:04:50.360 --> 01:04:57.079
don't be like but I'm nicer. Shut up, I'm awful. Ostensibly, Oh,

1148
01:04:57.119 --> 01:05:01.559
the lunch was ostensibly to discuss medical issues she was facing.

1149
01:05:02.119 --> 01:05:06.920
The woman was facing Simon had declined the invitation.

1150
01:05:07.800 --> 01:05:10.960
Oh fuck, but now I'm wondering what the medical issues are,

1151
01:05:11.000 --> 01:05:13.079
because what if they're like health what if they're like

1152
01:05:13.519 --> 01:05:17.159
mental health related or like memory related. And she just

1153
01:05:17.199 --> 01:05:17.719
fucked up.

1154
01:05:17.960 --> 01:05:20.159
Yeah, she forgot she was murdering everybody.

1155
01:05:20.679 --> 01:05:23.280
Yeah yeah, no, but if she did, No, but if

1156
01:05:23.320 --> 01:05:24.559
she did, she would have killed herself too.

1157
01:05:24.639 --> 01:05:26.519
Yes, she would have eaten some of it too. Well,

1158
01:05:26.599 --> 01:05:29.039
let's see, let's see. There's a lot here. So and

1159
01:05:29.079 --> 01:05:33.400
I'm honestly, really really curious. All four of Patterson's lunch

1160
01:05:33.440 --> 01:05:37.159
guests were hospitalized with gastro intestinal symptoms the day after

1161
01:05:37.199 --> 01:05:40.920
the meal. Three of them died the following week, all

1162
01:05:41.000 --> 01:05:44.679
from altered liver function and multiple organ failure due to

1163
01:05:44.840 --> 01:05:51.000
Amanita mushroom poisoning. Prosecutors accused Patterson of lying about a

1164
01:05:51.079 --> 01:05:55.599
cancer diagnosis as a pretense for the lunch, deliberately poisoning

1165
01:05:55.599 --> 01:05:59.000
her guests, not eating the same dish as them, and

1166
01:05:59.079 --> 01:06:02.519
pretending to offer similar symptoms afterwards.

1167
01:06:02.840 --> 01:06:05.440
Okay, yeah, so it would could cover up. Yeah.

1168
01:06:05.480 --> 01:06:12.639
Wow, that's bad. Wow, that's real bad.

1169
01:06:13.320 --> 01:06:16.679
Wow. Now I'm scared to go places and eat mushrooms.

1170
01:06:16.960 --> 01:06:22.519
You were already scared, yeah, prosecutors, Oh sorry, I read

1171
01:06:22.559 --> 01:06:25.320
that part. So she lied about a cancer diagnosis, which

1172
01:06:25.320 --> 01:06:29.239
obviously they could prove, you know later, she didn't eat

1173
01:06:29.280 --> 01:06:31.199
the same food as them, and then lied about it

1174
01:06:31.239 --> 01:06:34.559
being sick as well. Yeah, how would you How would

1175
01:06:34.599 --> 01:06:36.880
you think you could get away with that? She should

1176
01:06:36.920 --> 01:06:38.559
have no? Please?

1177
01:06:39.280 --> 01:06:41.599
So I'm confused, tho, because if I was going to

1178
01:06:41.679 --> 01:06:44.159
do that, I would eat the same food as everyone,

1179
01:06:44.199 --> 01:06:46.239
but I would have taken the mushrooms out beforehand, or

1180
01:06:46.239 --> 01:06:49.480
put the mushrooms in after my serving was ready, so

1181
01:06:49.519 --> 01:06:51.239
it looked like we were eating all the same thing.

1182
01:06:51.840 --> 01:06:55.880
I Well, the big to me if you're going to

1183
01:06:55.960 --> 01:06:59.679
plan something like this, the big question will be, and

1184
01:06:59.719 --> 01:07:05.199
it's obvious, why didn't you die? Right? Like, why did

1185
01:07:05.239 --> 01:07:07.639
you live? Or why didn't you even get sick? Why

1186
01:07:07.639 --> 01:07:09.239
didn't you even need to be hospitalized?

1187
01:07:09.599 --> 01:07:09.800
Right?

1188
01:07:10.000 --> 01:07:11.920
So, if you really wanted to get away with this

1189
01:07:12.000 --> 01:07:14.559
scott free with no question, you would need to poison

1190
01:07:14.599 --> 01:07:16.559
yourself at least a little bit exactly.

1191
01:07:16.599 --> 01:07:18.599
You need to have like a little bit of the mushroom.

1192
01:07:18.639 --> 01:07:23.199
But to be fair, death caps are really really deadly.

1193
01:07:23.239 --> 01:07:24.719
So I don't know if she would be okay, if

1194
01:07:24.719 --> 01:07:25.760
she ate a little bit of it.

1195
01:07:26.199 --> 01:07:28.280
Well, that's the thing I'm just saying, like you would

1196
01:07:28.320 --> 01:07:30.360
have to find out, like what is an amount that

1197
01:07:30.480 --> 01:07:33.800
is relatively safe to consume? There is a risk because

1198
01:07:33.800 --> 01:07:36.360
you know what, dumb shit, not you, but this woman,

1199
01:07:36.639 --> 01:07:39.159
dumb shit. Getting away with murder is not fucking easy.

1200
01:07:39.639 --> 01:07:40.679
Okay, I have a plan.

1201
01:07:40.880 --> 01:07:42.360
There's wrong. Okay, you have a plan?

1202
01:07:42.719 --> 01:07:44.360
Yeah, what about if she didn't?

1203
01:07:44.800 --> 01:07:47.519
Don't don't. Let's give it after this break fine. I

1204
01:07:47.559 --> 01:07:49.920
want I want, I want to fully I want no,

1205
01:07:49.960 --> 01:07:51.239
I just don't want to rush it. I want to

1206
01:07:51.280 --> 01:07:55.039
fully break out Michelle's plan for Scott free murder. We're

1207
01:07:55.039 --> 01:08:05.400
going to get to that right after this we have returned,

1208
01:08:06.480 --> 01:08:10.039
and as promised, Michelle is going to break down her

1209
01:08:10.079 --> 01:08:12.159
scott Free murder plant.

1210
01:08:13.440 --> 01:08:15.760
Oh I forgot what it was.

1211
01:08:15.920 --> 01:08:17.039
Oh, hell, come on.

1212
01:08:17.720 --> 01:08:21.720
So I think that, like what you should do is

1213
01:08:21.760 --> 01:08:24.720
she shouldn't eat the mushrooms. She should just eat something

1214
01:08:24.760 --> 01:08:27.680
that would also make her sick and maybe sick enough

1215
01:08:27.680 --> 01:08:29.239
to go to hospital, but not kill her. Like she

1216
01:08:29.239 --> 01:08:32.119
should have researched something that she could take. You know,

1217
01:08:33.319 --> 01:08:35.960
so the symptoms were similar but not the same, but they.

1218
01:08:35.920 --> 01:08:38.479
Could do a toxicology screening because they figured out what

1219
01:08:38.520 --> 01:08:39.760
poisoned everybody else.

1220
01:08:40.279 --> 01:08:43.560
Well, well, maybe you're right. Yeah, I guess she's gonna

1221
01:08:43.600 --> 01:08:46.119
have to she's gonna have to hope that she doesn't die.

1222
01:08:46.520 --> 01:08:48.960
Maybe she can do that thing where she gets acclimate

1223
01:08:49.000 --> 01:08:52.920
into the poison bye by like having little bits of

1224
01:08:52.960 --> 01:08:54.159
it for several years.

1225
01:08:54.439 --> 01:08:56.479
But the other problem is we already all she needed

1226
01:08:56.560 --> 01:08:58.159
was a little bit of it in the first place

1227
01:08:58.239 --> 01:08:58.880
to get sick.

1228
01:08:59.800 --> 01:09:04.319
Yeah, yeah, I'm just saying, yeah.

1229
01:09:04.000 --> 01:09:05.640
You're right. I mean what I'm saying is she should

1230
01:09:05.680 --> 01:09:10.319
have eaten like the tiniest bit of it and not anymore.

1231
01:09:10.640 --> 01:09:13.800
Like and then and then eat not those mushrooms, you know,

1232
01:09:13.840 --> 01:09:16.399
while they're eating together. That way nobody would be suspicious

1233
01:09:16.680 --> 01:09:21.960
she might die. But this is such like Wow, the

1234
01:09:21.960 --> 01:09:24.119
more details come out the war, I'm just like, wow,

1235
01:09:24.159 --> 01:09:29.199
this lady is stupid. And I'm guessing she thought all

1236
01:09:29.239 --> 01:09:32.840
four of them would die. Yeah, because if all four

1237
01:09:32.880 --> 01:09:36.520
of them had died, then maybe nobody would know about

1238
01:09:36.520 --> 01:09:40.319
the fake cancer claim and stuff like that. They could

1239
01:09:40.319 --> 01:09:43.479
get away. She could get away with that. But since

1240
01:09:43.560 --> 01:09:46.000
one person lived, they were to go. We all ate

1241
01:09:46.039 --> 01:09:47.840
at her house. She had us over for this thing

1242
01:09:47.840 --> 01:09:50.199
and this thing, and then the cops were like, oh yeah,

1243
01:09:50.199 --> 01:09:52.520
look at it, you know, and then they and then

1244
01:09:52.520 --> 01:09:55.680
they threw a boomerang at her. And I'm sorry, Australian friends,

1245
01:09:55.760 --> 01:09:58.039
I really am being a jerk. No, no, this is

1246
01:09:58.159 --> 01:10:03.159
just wow, Like this is like again, no offense to Australia.

1247
01:10:03.199 --> 01:10:04.840
This is like Florida level.

1248
01:10:05.439 --> 01:10:07.359
Yeah.

1249
01:10:07.600 --> 01:10:13.039
Oh quote. You do not have to be satisfied what

1250
01:10:13.119 --> 01:10:16.159
the motive was or even that there was one. Prosecutor

1251
01:10:16.239 --> 01:10:19.800
Nnette Rodgers told the jury on Wednesday, the prosecution will

1252
01:10:19.800 --> 01:10:22.840
not be suggesting that there was a particular motive to

1253
01:10:22.920 --> 01:10:26.359
do what she did. Patterson also pleaded not guilty to

1254
01:10:26.439 --> 01:10:29.199
three counts of murder and one count of attempted murder.

1255
01:10:30.800 --> 01:10:34.199
Yeah, Patterson has oh sorry, I said, as they do well.

1256
01:10:35.520 --> 01:10:39.920
Patterson is repeatedly denied deliberately poisoning her guests. Her legal

1257
01:10:39.960 --> 01:10:42.600
team says she ate some of the meal herself and

1258
01:10:42.720 --> 01:10:46.039
did genuinely get sick, just not as severely as the

1259
01:10:46.079 --> 01:10:50.079
others at the table. Quote. The defense case is that

1260
01:10:50.199 --> 01:10:53.079
she didn't intend to cause anyone any harm on that day,

1261
01:10:53.319 --> 01:10:56.560
her lawyer, Colin Mandy said in his opening statement. The

1262
01:10:56.600 --> 01:11:00.119
defense case is that what happened was a tragedy and

1263
01:11:00.199 --> 01:11:03.560
a terrible accident. Thank goodness, no children were allowed to come,

1264
01:11:04.239 --> 01:11:07.279
and thank goodness, she didn't actually have cancer. She dreamed it,

1265
01:11:08.399 --> 01:11:11.239
Mandy said. Patterson admits to lying to police on two

1266
01:11:11.359 --> 01:11:14.560
instances in the aftermath of the lunch about owning a

1267
01:11:14.560 --> 01:11:17.399
food dehydrator and foraging for mushrooms.

1268
01:11:19.079 --> 01:11:20.880
She didn't forge for mushrooms.

1269
01:11:21.000 --> 01:11:24.279
She admits to lying to police on two instances in

1270
01:11:24.319 --> 01:11:26.760
the aftermath of lunch about owning a food dehydrator and

1271
01:11:26.800 --> 01:11:31.560
foraging for mushrooms. So she dehydrated the mushrooms, probably to

1272
01:11:31.600 --> 01:11:34.520
make it seem like they were store bought and she.

1273
01:11:34.760 --> 01:11:36.760
Probably foraged and said that she didn't.

1274
01:11:37.119 --> 01:11:41.199
Yeah, he said. She admits to having foraged for mushrooms,

1275
01:11:41.199 --> 01:11:44.760
but quote denies that she ever deliberately deliberately sought out

1276
01:11:44.840 --> 01:11:48.920
death cap mushrooms. He said, Patterson panicked after the lunch,

1277
01:11:49.000 --> 01:11:51.239
not because she knew she was guilty of murder, as

1278
01:11:51.279 --> 01:11:55.079
the prosecution argues, but quote because she was so overwhelmed

1279
01:11:55.119 --> 01:11:57.119
by the fact that these four people had become so

1280
01:11:57.279 --> 01:12:00.760
ill because of the food that she'd served to them.

1281
01:12:00.800 --> 01:12:06.279
So hold on, So, first of all, if this wasn't murder,

1282
01:12:06.640 --> 01:12:11.119
she's really dumb and yeah, criminal negligence.

1283
01:12:10.680 --> 01:12:12.600
Yeah, but the defense is that she is as stupid

1284
01:12:12.600 --> 01:12:13.640
as a sack of hammers.

1285
01:12:13.880 --> 01:12:16.399
Yeah. Now, if you look up what death cap cap

1286
01:12:16.520 --> 01:12:21.399
mushrooms look like, they're like white and shit, there are yellowy, whitish,

1287
01:12:21.479 --> 01:12:26.800
she yellowy. They look like they could be edible, honestly,

1288
01:12:28.119 --> 01:12:31.640
there's they're not like red or something weird. So like

1289
01:12:31.880 --> 01:12:34.159
it could be that she's just super super dumb andt

1290
01:12:34.199 --> 01:12:36.520
she just thinks she can eat any mushroom in the world.

1291
01:12:36.680 --> 01:12:40.199
But like you'd think though, if she was like, oh,

1292
01:12:40.239 --> 01:12:43.760
fuck all the I poisoned all these people, that she'd

1293
01:12:43.800 --> 01:12:47.199
go to the cops and she'd be like, listen, I

1294
01:12:47.239 --> 01:12:51.520
think this is what they ate. I'm really sorry I

1295
01:12:51.600 --> 01:12:52.800
killed them the end.

1296
01:12:53.359 --> 01:12:56.600
It should also be mentioned they're not extremely common in

1297
01:12:56.640 --> 01:12:59.880
that part of Australia. Really, you would have to really

1298
01:13:00.279 --> 01:13:06.239
for them. And apparently they are really only prevalent in

1299
01:13:06.319 --> 01:13:10.199
cooler areas and at cooler times of year. So it's

1300
01:13:10.279 --> 01:13:13.239
possible that she cultivated them for a little while.

1301
01:13:13.680 --> 01:13:16.680
And then I mean she dehydrated them, so she might

1302
01:13:16.680 --> 01:13:17.560
have been saving them up.

1303
01:13:19.119 --> 01:13:20.600
This looks bad.

1304
01:13:20.960 --> 01:13:21.680
It does look bad.

1305
01:13:21.920 --> 01:13:23.960
Yeah, oh my gosh.

1306
01:13:23.960 --> 01:13:26.800
And also if she was, if she was forging mushroom,

1307
01:13:27.000 --> 01:13:30.199
forging mushrooms and like dehydrating them stuff, she's never eaten

1308
01:13:30.239 --> 01:13:33.239
one before. She was just like, oh, I'll just not

1309
01:13:33.319 --> 01:13:37.039
ever eat them myself. But I do this all no.

1310
01:13:36.560 --> 01:13:38.800
No, And there's no evidence that she I mean, the

1311
01:13:38.840 --> 01:13:41.479
police say flat out like she clearly faked being sick

1312
01:13:41.520 --> 01:13:43.239
and didn't eat the food they were eating.

1313
01:13:43.960 --> 01:13:45.680
Yeah, and yeah, it's not like she went to the

1314
01:13:45.720 --> 01:13:46.520
hospital too.

1315
01:13:46.960 --> 01:13:49.119
Yeah, or if she did, I mean, they definitely didn't

1316
01:13:49.159 --> 01:13:52.359
find the same poison in her, so like, what are

1317
01:13:52.359 --> 01:13:57.920
they supposed to do? He said? Patterson panicked after the lunch.

1318
01:13:57.960 --> 01:14:00.399
Oh sorry, ever, that is it? Quote? Is it possible

1319
01:14:00.439 --> 01:14:03.239
that people might do and say things that are not

1320
01:14:03.319 --> 01:14:05.439
well thought out and might in the end make them

1321
01:14:05.479 --> 01:14:08.239
look bad? He added? Is it possible that a person

1322
01:14:08.319 --> 01:14:11.119
might lie when they find out that people are seriously

1323
01:14:11.159 --> 01:14:13.640
ill because of the food that they serve them? Those

1324
01:14:13.680 --> 01:14:17.800
are important issues in this case. Your honor and ladies

1325
01:14:17.840 --> 01:14:22.000
and gentlemen of the jury. I just want to say,

1326
01:14:22.039 --> 01:14:26.439
would you your family, your mothers, your daughters, your brothers,

1327
01:14:26.479 --> 01:14:30.680
your sons, would they want to be caught committing murder? No?

1328
01:14:31.560 --> 01:14:35.560
Yeah, no, No one wants to be caught committing murder.

1329
01:14:35.840 --> 01:14:41.399
So it's extremely reasonable that she would lie to get

1330
01:14:41.439 --> 01:14:47.079
away with it. The case is so high profile that

1331
01:14:47.119 --> 01:14:52.079
the fifteen person jury, including three alternatives, will be sequestered

1332
01:14:52.159 --> 01:14:56.039
during deliberations quote, to protect them from any interference or

1333
01:14:56.039 --> 01:15:00.399
outside pressure and to safeguard the integrity of their verdicts.

1334
01:15:00.800 --> 01:15:03.399
Don't they normally keep them sequestered.

1335
01:15:02.840 --> 01:15:05.359
During I don't think they do that, maybe not in Australia.

1336
01:15:05.399 --> 01:15:06.880
They do that here, but I don't think they do

1337
01:15:06.920 --> 01:15:07.600
that in Australia.

1338
01:15:08.239 --> 01:15:10.159
You just get to talk to everyone about.

1339
01:15:10.039 --> 01:15:13.239
Sometimes sequestering is just that you have to like agree

1340
01:15:13.279 --> 01:15:14.840
that you're just going to go home and not talk

1341
01:15:14.840 --> 01:15:17.640
about this. Right, But then on big ones they like

1342
01:15:17.680 --> 01:15:19.840
put you in hotels and stuff.

1343
01:15:19.880 --> 01:15:23.560
Right that they don't do either in Australia.

1344
01:15:23.079 --> 01:15:25.800
Usually I don't. I mean to be honest, I don't

1345
01:15:25.800 --> 01:15:29.199
know much about their justice system, and frankly, when I

1346
01:15:29.239 --> 01:15:32.319
look into foreign justice systems, I'm almost always terrified to

1347
01:15:32.359 --> 01:15:37.079
ever use my passport. So so nothing against them, but

1348
01:15:37.119 --> 01:15:41.000
I don't know. Beell warned that the case is quote

1349
01:15:41.079 --> 01:15:44.600
unlikely or is likely to continue to attract a high

1350
01:15:44.680 --> 01:15:48.199
level of media attention, and urge jurors to consider only

1351
01:15:48.279 --> 01:15:52.119
the evidence presented at trial quote using your head, not

1352
01:15:52.279 --> 01:15:57.399
your heart or your stomach full of poison mushrooms. So oh,

1353
01:15:58.119 --> 01:16:00.960
now we have a full blown guide to the case.

1354
01:16:01.640 --> 01:16:04.399
This is like all the pertinent details. So we're gonna

1355
01:16:04.399 --> 01:16:06.279
take a quick break and we're gonna dive into this

1356
01:16:06.319 --> 01:16:12.279
is really interesting. I'm super fascinated. I am so just

1357
01:16:12.319 --> 01:16:14.079
a white girl right now, just like ooh, I want

1358
01:16:14.079 --> 01:16:17.840
to know more about the murderer, and we'll talk plenty

1359
01:16:17.880 --> 01:16:28.279
about it after this. We have returned with a little

1360
01:16:28.359 --> 01:16:32.680
more detail about this mushroom poisoning in Australia. This one

1361
01:16:32.720 --> 01:16:36.279
gets weirder the more you learn about it. Yeah, my lord.

1362
01:16:37.239 --> 01:16:39.640
So this is what they call the guide to the

1363
01:16:39.680 --> 01:16:42.359
case from NPR. This is supposed to give us all

1364
01:16:42.359 --> 01:16:46.520
the pertinent details. The first piece is what was Patterson's relationship.

1365
01:16:47.199 --> 01:16:50.279
Aaron and Simon Patterson met while working at the local

1366
01:16:50.319 --> 01:16:55.479
city council. Oh, they're politicians. She did it and got

1367
01:16:55.520 --> 01:16:58.920
married in two thousand and seven. In the first days

1368
01:16:58.920 --> 01:17:02.680
of the trial, Simon testified that Aaron, who previously worked

1369
01:17:02.680 --> 01:17:07.039
as an air traffic controller, shit, took online classes and

1370
01:17:07.119 --> 01:17:09.880
mostly worked as a homemaker during their marriage.

1371
01:17:10.199 --> 01:17:12.239
Okay, learning about mushrooms, got it.

1372
01:17:13.720 --> 01:17:15.439
Do you have a problem with air traffic controllers to

1373
01:17:15.439 --> 01:17:16.720
feel like you were about to say something?

1374
01:17:17.039 --> 01:17:18.319
No, I think that's cool.

1375
01:17:18.439 --> 01:17:21.319
Actually it's not a bad job. I watched I wish

1376
01:17:21.319 --> 01:17:22.600
you could brun the name, But I watched a movie

1377
01:17:22.600 --> 01:17:25.000
about air traffic controllers, like an action movie, and it

1378
01:17:25.079 --> 01:17:27.000
was the most ridiculous thing ever. It made it seem

1379
01:17:27.039 --> 01:17:29.479
like every night is like pulse pounding, like keeping people

1380
01:17:29.560 --> 01:17:33.640
from mass death every night. Like it was the weirdest movie.

1381
01:17:33.920 --> 01:17:37.399
Maybe they were just talking about what's going on in Newark, right, now.

1382
01:17:38.000 --> 01:17:40.600
Oh, No, one talks about what's going on in Newark.

1383
01:17:40.680 --> 01:17:43.199
Right now, everyone's talking about what's going on in new Work.

1384
01:17:43.279 --> 01:17:44.720
This is the first I've heard about it.

1385
01:17:44.880 --> 01:17:47.319
You haven't heard about the insane stuff that's going on

1386
01:17:47.359 --> 01:17:48.399
in Newark right now?

1387
01:17:48.880 --> 01:17:52.000
No, I don't know anything about it. I'm not lying.

1388
01:17:52.439 --> 01:17:55.760
Airport is like a disaster. The systems keep going down.

1389
01:17:55.920 --> 01:17:58.399
Air traffic controllers they like were short because they all

1390
01:17:58.439 --> 01:18:02.079
had to take mental health vacations because of how bad

1391
01:18:02.159 --> 01:18:02.560
it was.

1392
01:18:03.920 --> 01:18:05.399
Living in Jersey's hard.

1393
01:18:06.000 --> 01:18:10.199
No, Like, the government said, hey, can you reduce flights

1394
01:18:10.239 --> 01:18:13.680
from Newarks? And everything is a disaster, so they're reducing flights.

1395
01:18:14.159 --> 01:18:14.920
It's a big deal.

1396
01:18:15.960 --> 01:18:17.239
I mean, it sounds like a big deal. I'm not

1397
01:18:17.239 --> 01:18:18.880
saying you're lying or that it's not a big deal.

1398
01:18:18.920 --> 01:18:22.520
I just had not heard anything about it. I'm sorry.

1399
01:18:23.880 --> 01:18:25.000
I always flew out of JFK.

1400
01:18:25.560 --> 01:18:25.880
I know.

1401
01:18:27.640 --> 01:18:31.079
I don't know why that makes you so mad. We're

1402
01:18:31.079 --> 01:18:35.479
all very worried. As he explained, the two split up

1403
01:18:35.520 --> 01:18:39.840
and reconciled multiple times over the years before permanently separating

1404
01:18:39.840 --> 01:18:44.840
in twenty fifteen. Wow, they permanently separated in twenty fifteen,

1405
01:18:44.880 --> 01:18:46.239
So it was a long time later.

1406
01:18:46.640 --> 01:18:46.920
Yeah.

1407
01:18:47.079 --> 01:18:50.279
Yeah, it's plenty of time to gather up mushrooms and

1408
01:18:50.359 --> 01:18:51.960
come up with a really stupid plan.

1409
01:18:52.439 --> 01:18:53.920
Yeah.

1410
01:18:54.000 --> 01:18:56.760
He described their relationship as strained toward the end, but

1411
01:18:56.920 --> 01:18:59.159
friendly quote most of the time.

1412
01:19:00.399 --> 01:19:01.039
Yeah.

1413
01:19:01.119 --> 01:19:03.319
Yeah. She was like, No, he's a good guy. I

1414
01:19:03.359 --> 01:19:05.800
appreciate the life we had together. I'll kill him now.

1415
01:19:05.880 --> 01:19:06.680
He's a nice guy.

1416
01:19:08.000 --> 01:19:09.000
I just want him dead.

1417
01:19:09.039 --> 01:19:12.840
But you know, the two Uh, this makes me so sad.

1418
01:19:13.279 --> 01:19:17.560
The two shared custody of their two children. I'm glad

1419
01:19:17.600 --> 01:19:20.279
she didn't succeed in killing him.

1420
01:19:19.960 --> 01:19:21.359
M Yeah, me too. Yeah.

1421
01:19:22.600 --> 01:19:25.479
Saw each other at church and even went on local

1422
01:19:25.520 --> 01:19:30.680
and overseas family trips together. Wow. So they were like

1423
01:19:31.600 --> 01:19:34.479
by as far as people could tell, they appeared amicable.

1424
01:19:35.520 --> 01:19:36.199
Yeah.

1425
01:19:36.279 --> 01:19:38.520
I want to know what her excuse for lying about

1426
01:19:38.560 --> 01:19:41.159
cancer is. That's what I'm hoping they mentioned in a minute,

1427
01:19:41.439 --> 01:19:43.560
because I want to know what that was about, or

1428
01:19:43.600 --> 01:19:45.920
what they're what the defense is claiming that was.

1429
01:19:45.920 --> 01:19:48.479
Oh okay, yeah yeah yeah.

1430
01:19:48.600 --> 01:19:50.720
Patterson. Also, I like, you're like, what is that about?

1431
01:19:50.720 --> 01:19:54.600
It's about getting people to a place to murder, exactly understand.

1432
01:19:57.880 --> 01:20:00.920
Patterson also remained on amicable term with her in laws.

1433
01:20:01.199 --> 01:20:04.199
Simon said Patterson and his parents loved each other, noting

1434
01:20:04.279 --> 01:20:07.600
she was especially close with Don, a retired school teacher

1435
01:20:07.880 --> 01:20:10.680
with whom she shared a love of science, like how

1436
01:20:10.760 --> 01:20:15.279
mushrooms can kill you. Yes, I added that part. However, Rogers,

1437
01:20:15.520 --> 01:20:19.600
the prosecutor, said Simon noticed a sustained change in his

1438
01:20:19.680 --> 01:20:24.560
relationship with Patterson. In twenty twenty two, Patterson apparently said

1439
01:20:24.640 --> 01:20:27.479
she would need to seek child support from him, which

1440
01:20:27.520 --> 01:20:31.720
he accepted. Their communication declined from that point on over

1441
01:20:31.800 --> 01:20:35.600
issues related to child support payments, such as school fees.

1442
01:20:36.000 --> 01:20:41.119
Rogers said Simon testified on Friday that they discussed the

1443
01:20:41.159 --> 01:20:44.159
idea of bringing in a mediator in December of twenty

1444
01:20:44.319 --> 01:20:47.520
twenty two, saying that quote, from my point of view,

1445
01:20:47.600 --> 01:20:49.920
Aaron has been extremely aggressive.

1446
01:20:50.760 --> 01:20:51.079
Hmmm.

1447
01:20:52.239 --> 01:20:54.479
I think as a coincidence, maybe she was so aggressive

1448
01:20:54.520 --> 01:20:56.920
she wasn't paying attention, and she foraged a bunch of

1449
01:20:57.079 --> 01:21:00.439
deadly plants and failed them to only his family and

1450
01:21:00.479 --> 01:21:04.920
not he and hopefully him, but he didn't show. So

1451
01:21:05.079 --> 01:21:07.359
here's this next part is called who was and Wasn't

1452
01:21:07.399 --> 01:21:11.840
at the lunch? In July twenty twenty three, Patterson invited

1453
01:21:11.880 --> 01:21:15.119
Simon and several of his relatives over for lunch. His parents,

1454
01:21:15.159 --> 01:21:18.479
Gail and Donald Patterson, both seventy, as well as Gail's sister,

1455
01:21:18.520 --> 01:21:22.600
Heather Wilkinson sixty six and her husband Ian Wilkinson, sixty eight.

1456
01:21:23.159 --> 01:21:25.720
Patterson said the purpose of the lunch was to discuss

1457
01:21:25.760 --> 01:21:29.319
some medical issues she was facing and seek advice on

1458
01:21:29.359 --> 01:21:32.600
how to break it to her kids. According to prosecutors,

1459
01:21:33.079 --> 01:21:36.439
who say that this was a pretense for the adult's

1460
01:21:36.520 --> 01:21:41.600
only meals to keep the kids from knowing. She dropped

1461
01:21:41.600 --> 01:21:44.840
the two ages nine and fourteen off for lunch in

1462
01:21:44.880 --> 01:21:47.880
a movie with a friend before her guests came over.

1463
01:21:49.319 --> 01:21:53.199
Roger said the Wilkinsons were surprised by the invitation because

1464
01:21:53.199 --> 01:21:56.680
they hadn't yet been to Patterson's house, where she had

1465
01:21:56.720 --> 01:22:00.920
moved the previous year. Oh yeah, she never invites us

1466
01:22:00.960 --> 01:22:03.600
over for anything. But I guess this is normal.

1467
01:22:04.319 --> 01:22:07.560
Well, I mean, I still I think it. It's I mean,

1468
01:22:07.600 --> 01:22:09.880
given her excuse and the fact that I mean, if

1469
01:22:09.880 --> 01:22:12.079
they had said she'd lived there for five or six years,

1470
01:22:12.119 --> 01:22:14.119
I would have been like, huh, but it's only been

1471
01:22:14.119 --> 01:22:16.960
a year and she wants to talk about how she's dying,

1472
01:22:17.119 --> 01:22:17.960
So I get it.

1473
01:22:18.359 --> 01:22:20.880
Yeah yeah, And she's like, I say, dying. I meant,

1474
01:22:20.880 --> 01:22:22.119
how I'm killing Gosh.

1475
01:22:21.880 --> 01:22:23.880
I'm gets so confused.

1476
01:22:23.920 --> 01:22:26.600
I just yeah, it just gets so worked up. Yeah, Rogers.

1477
01:22:28.039 --> 01:22:31.560
Simon testified that it was quote very rare for his

1478
01:22:31.640 --> 01:22:35.560
wife to invite people over, and that family gatherings usually

1479
01:22:35.640 --> 01:22:37.680
happened at other relatives' homes.

1480
01:22:38.199 --> 01:22:40.399
Oh, man, when I invite people over and they die,

1481
01:22:40.399 --> 01:22:42.319
they're gonna think I kill them.

1482
01:22:42.880 --> 01:22:48.359
Oh gosh, well yeah yes they will. Oh. Simon texted

1483
01:22:48.399 --> 01:22:51.319
Patterson the day before the lunch, saying he felt too

1484
01:22:51.439 --> 01:22:55.039
uncomfortable to attend. That's a big thing, by the way,

1485
01:22:55.279 --> 01:22:59.239
m that her ex husband didn't attend because he felt

1486
01:22:59.239 --> 01:23:02.239
like it wasn't like it like she would be fighting

1487
01:23:02.279 --> 01:23:06.159
with him or be bad and then everybody gets poisoned.

1488
01:23:07.359 --> 01:23:08.880
That's a really bad.

1489
01:23:08.640 --> 01:23:15.159
Look, honestly. Like if if I guess, if like my

1490
01:23:15.800 --> 01:23:20.640
son's ex wife invited me over and then my son

1491
01:23:20.720 --> 01:23:23.399
decided not to go, I might not go either.

1492
01:23:23.920 --> 01:23:27.640
Well that's why the cancer pretense is so strong, because

1493
01:23:27.640 --> 01:23:29.800
they'd be like, well, we understand you two aren't getting along,

1494
01:23:29.800 --> 01:23:31.600
but you really need support right now.

1495
01:23:31.960 --> 01:23:33.800
Yeah. They were good people basically.

1496
01:23:34.279 --> 01:23:36.880
Yeah, well yeah, three of them were. One of them

1497
01:23:37.039 --> 01:23:38.079
hopefully still is.

1498
01:23:39.880 --> 01:23:41.479
Well. I mean, they could be a bad person.

1499
01:23:41.520 --> 01:23:44.199
Now, I don't know, honestly, I could you blame them?

1500
01:23:44.680 --> 01:23:44.880
No?

1501
01:23:45.359 --> 01:23:48.520
Okay, good as long as they have your past, I'm happy. Good,

1502
01:23:49.079 --> 01:23:50.880
But no, I'm just what I'm saying is like, that

1503
01:23:51.000 --> 01:23:55.199
makes me think that they're not building the narrative that

1504
01:23:55.279 --> 01:23:59.479
she was unreasonable and combative after this all happened. Is

1505
01:23:59.520 --> 01:24:01.640
the fact that he never showed up in the first place,

1506
01:24:01.880 --> 01:24:04.279
right right, That's all I'm saying, is like, it'd be

1507
01:24:04.319 --> 01:24:05.880
easy to look back and be like, well, it was

1508
01:24:05.920 --> 01:24:08.079
always it was worse that had been getting work, you

1509
01:24:08.119 --> 01:24:10.520
know what I mean, Like they could kind of invent

1510
01:24:10.680 --> 01:24:14.119
some stuff or reinterpret is a better way to put it,

1511
01:24:14.159 --> 01:24:16.920
because I think they'd be trying to intentionally lie. But

1512
01:24:17.760 --> 01:24:19.920
instead it's like, no, he was like, it's not a

1513
01:24:19.920 --> 01:24:21.399
good idea for me to be there. We're not on

1514
01:24:21.439 --> 01:24:22.000
good terms.

1515
01:24:22.359 --> 01:24:25.119
What if he wasn't on it too, and he just

1516
01:24:25.199 --> 01:24:28.119
doesn't like his family and he backed out of the

1517
01:24:28.159 --> 01:24:32.000
last minute because of that, and then he and then

1518
01:24:32.039 --> 01:24:34.119
he now he's just trying to blame her completely.

1519
01:24:34.119 --> 01:24:36.000
Well, then that's four D chess. And if you can,

1520
01:24:36.039 --> 01:24:38.920
and honestly I'm on the King's side, then good job,

1521
01:24:38.960 --> 01:24:42.520
How like he really worked it through. No, you figured

1522
01:24:42.520 --> 01:24:47.800
it all out. That's awful. There's even more to this case.

1523
01:24:47.960 --> 01:24:50.000
We're gonna take a quick break and we'll we'll see

1524
01:24:50.039 --> 01:24:51.680
if we can't wrap this up, because we still have

1525
01:24:51.720 --> 01:25:02.359
to talk about Dudley Town, right, yea, the deadly mushroom meal.

1526
01:25:02.520 --> 01:25:05.760
We're still learning so much about it. Yeah, and I'm

1527
01:25:05.800 --> 01:25:08.359
becoming like really invested. I'm gonna have to set a

1528
01:25:08.359 --> 01:25:10.359
Google alert so I can find out when this case

1529
01:25:10.399 --> 01:25:10.680
is over.

1530
01:25:11.199 --> 01:25:12.840
Yeah. Yeah.

1531
01:25:12.920 --> 01:25:16.640
So Apparently, Simon texted Patterson the day before the lunch

1532
01:25:17.239 --> 01:25:20.279
saying he felt too uncomfortable to attend, but was willing

1533
01:25:20.319 --> 01:25:25.439
to discuss her health issues over the phone. Patterson responded

1534
01:25:25.439 --> 01:25:28.359
in a text that Simon read from the stand on Thursday.

1535
01:25:29.079 --> 01:25:32.279
In it, she said she was disappointed and hoped he

1536
01:25:32.319 --> 01:25:33.720
would change his mind.

1537
01:25:35.199 --> 01:25:37.199
But didn't say what they were.

1538
01:25:38.239 --> 01:25:41.479
No, I wouldn't be shocked if she never said she

1539
01:25:41.520 --> 01:25:44.239
had cancer in writing. She only said it like to

1540
01:25:44.359 --> 01:25:44.800
the people.

1541
01:25:45.279 --> 01:25:46.680
Yeah, yeah, that.

1542
01:25:46.680 --> 01:25:48.840
Way she could have been like, uh, I hadn't pooped

1543
01:25:48.840 --> 01:25:50.279
in three days when the cops are like, well, what

1544
01:25:50.319 --> 01:25:52.119
was this health issue you kept texting about? I hadn't

1545
01:25:52.159 --> 01:25:55.560
pooped in three days. You know something like that quote,

1546
01:25:56.000 --> 01:25:58.880
I've spent many hours this week preparing lunch for tomorrow.

1547
01:25:59.039 --> 01:26:04.239
Oh my god, this is the This is the text

1548
01:26:04.279 --> 01:26:07.159
they read. This isn't like somebody's memory. This is what

1549
01:26:07.279 --> 01:26:11.600
she actually wrote. I've spent many hours this week preparing

1550
01:26:11.680 --> 01:26:14.359
lunch for tomorrow, which has been exhausting in light of

1551
01:26:14.399 --> 01:26:17.760
the issues I'm facing, and spent a small fortune on beef.

1552
01:26:17.880 --> 01:26:21.119
I fil a to make beef Wellington's because I wanted

1553
01:26:21.159 --> 01:26:25.520
it to be a special meal, as I may not

1554
01:26:25.640 --> 01:26:27.720
be able to host a lunch like this again for

1555
01:26:27.800 --> 01:26:31.760
some time. Of course, the king response would have been forever,

1556
01:26:31.920 --> 01:26:37.520
because you never have before. Oh, it's important to me

1557
01:26:37.680 --> 01:26:40.279
that you're all there tomorrow and that I can have

1558
01:26:40.319 --> 01:26:43.079
the conversations that I need to have. If I read

1559
01:26:43.079 --> 01:26:46.640
that in a devious tone, it would be scary. Yeah, yeah,

1560
01:26:46.640 --> 01:26:51.079
it's important to me that you're all there tomorrow and

1561
01:26:51.119 --> 01:26:54.840
that I can have the conversations that I need to have.

1562
01:26:56.439 --> 01:27:00.000
Yeah yeah, pretty scary.

1563
01:26:59.760 --> 01:27:04.600
So next piece is what happened at the lunch. Prosecutors

1564
01:27:04.600 --> 01:27:07.720
say Patterson showed her guests around before serving them. At

1565
01:27:07.720 --> 01:27:12.000
the dining room table, she placed individual beef Wellington's a

1566
01:27:12.079 --> 01:27:15.319
steak dish wrapped in pastry, usually with a paste of

1567
01:27:15.760 --> 01:27:20.039
finely chopped mushrooms, along with mashed potatoes and green beans,

1568
01:27:20.119 --> 01:27:24.520
on four large gray dinner plates and one smaller, lighter

1569
01:27:24.520 --> 01:27:30.600
colored plate. According to Ian Wilkinson, Patterson ate off the

1570
01:27:30.680 --> 01:27:34.319
smaller plate. Oh my god, of course, like this is

1571
01:27:34.359 --> 01:27:38.199
so fool proof. But again, if everyone had died, no

1572
01:27:38.239 --> 01:27:40.239
one would ever know about the plate.

1573
01:27:41.079 --> 01:27:42.600
Yeah, exactly exactly.

1574
01:27:43.680 --> 01:27:48.960
Prosecutors say Wilkinson's finished their portion while gale ate approximately

1575
01:27:49.079 --> 01:27:51.640
half and gave the rest to her husband Donald. I'm

1576
01:27:51.680 --> 01:27:56.399
guessing she's the one who lived. There was banter amongst

1577
01:27:56.399 --> 01:28:00.920
them about how much they'd eaten, Rogers said Emil Patterson

1578
01:28:00.920 --> 01:28:03.520
told the group that she had been diagnosed with cancer

1579
01:28:03.840 --> 01:28:08.119
after noticing a bump on her elbow, and asked for

1580
01:28:08.199 --> 01:28:11.279
advice on whether to tell the kids. The group had

1581
01:28:11.319 --> 01:28:14.199
a discussion and prayed for her. My god, what an

1582
01:28:14.239 --> 01:28:19.840
evil person. Yeah, yeah, what happened after the lunch, According

1583
01:28:19.840 --> 01:28:23.319
to prosecutors, the elder Pattersons and Wilkinson started to feel

1584
01:28:23.359 --> 01:28:26.520
sick that evening, with diarrhea and vomiting throughout the night.

1585
01:28:27.159 --> 01:28:30.000
The couples realized they had the same symptoms. After they

1586
01:28:30.039 --> 01:28:33.880
talked on the phone. The next morning, the Pattersons called

1587
01:28:33.920 --> 01:28:36.560
an ambulance to take them to a hospital, while Simon

1588
01:28:36.640 --> 01:28:41.000
Patterson took the Wilkinsons to another hospital because of capacity issues.

1589
01:28:41.760 --> 01:28:44.680
Remember they live way out away. They live like eighty

1590
01:28:44.680 --> 01:28:47.159
five miles north of I think it was New South Wales.

1591
01:28:47.960 --> 01:28:51.039
He testified that during this time, Heather Wilkinson raised the

1592
01:28:51.079 --> 01:28:56.640
subject of the different plates at lunch. Oh shit, He

1593
01:28:56.760 --> 01:28:59.399
said that his aunt said something to the effect of,

1594
01:28:59.840 --> 01:29:04.000
is Aaron short of crockery? What does that mean? Is

1595
01:29:04.039 --> 01:29:06.680
that why she would have this different kind of colored

1596
01:29:06.680 --> 01:29:09.960
plate that she served herself? What is crockery like? Lying?

1597
01:29:10.800 --> 01:29:13.359
No, no, no, they're talking about like the flat where they're

1598
01:29:13.359 --> 01:29:14.039
talking about plates.

1599
01:29:14.319 --> 01:29:21.920
Oh, crockery of crockery. No, I was expecting some friggin

1600
01:29:22.000 --> 01:29:27.279
Australian slang. That's on me. She is that why she

1601
01:29:27.319 --> 01:29:29.560
would have this different kind of colored plate that she

1602
01:29:29.680 --> 01:29:32.880
served herself with? Oh my god, So it came up naturally.

1603
01:29:34.079 --> 01:29:36.960
He replied at the time that Patterson didn't have many

1604
01:29:37.039 --> 01:29:42.159
matching plates and might have just run out. The patients

1605
01:29:42.199 --> 01:29:45.439
were able to talk about their experience immediately after being

1606
01:29:45.479 --> 01:29:48.960
admitted on July thirtieth. Simon said his dad Donald told

1607
01:29:49.039 --> 01:29:52.439
him about Patterson's cancer diagnosis from his hospital that it

1608
01:29:52.680 --> 01:29:56.399
was not published anywhere, it was written down anywhere, but

1609
01:29:56.560 --> 01:29:59.800
she had can't. Donald was also able to give his

1610
01:30:00.000 --> 01:30:03.640
medical history and recount the lunch to doctors who grew

1611
01:30:03.760 --> 01:30:09.079
concerned that gastro enteritis was not the sole cause of

1612
01:30:09.079 --> 01:30:12.119
his symptoms. Man, they've got her dead to rights. They were.

1613
01:30:12.720 --> 01:30:17.399
These people were giving statements to doctors about how the

1614
01:30:17.479 --> 01:30:21.920
lunch went before they knew they had been poisoned to death. Yeah,

1615
01:30:23.520 --> 01:30:25.319
how do you say, like, oh, well, they wanted revenge

1616
01:30:25.319 --> 01:30:27.800
against her for what for giving them food poisoning. They

1617
01:30:27.800 --> 01:30:30.399
had no idea what was going on. They didn't know

1618
01:30:30.479 --> 01:30:35.119
that they were poisoned like that. Yeah. Multiple doctors and

1619
01:30:35.199 --> 01:30:40.359
toxicologists discerned that their symptoms were indicative of quote serious

1620
01:30:40.439 --> 01:30:46.560
toxin syndrome caused by ingestion of aminta felloids mushrooms, also

1621
01:30:46.680 --> 01:30:51.199
known as death cap mushrooms. Prosecutors say the patients were

1622
01:30:51.199 --> 01:30:54.159
not immediately given the antidote because there was a lack

1623
01:30:54.199 --> 01:30:56.520
of evidence to confirm. That's why they had what they

1624
01:30:56.560 --> 01:31:00.520
had ingested and their conditions deteriorated over the following day

1625
01:31:00.560 --> 01:31:04.800
even as they were treated. I'm guessing that if they

1626
01:31:04.800 --> 01:31:08.640
had given the antidote, maybe it could have made things

1627
01:31:08.640 --> 01:31:10.439
worse if they weren't sick with it. I guess I

1628
01:31:10.479 --> 01:31:10.800
have no.

1629
01:31:10.760 --> 01:31:14.920
Idea, or maybe they just didn't think specifically that, you know,

1630
01:31:14.960 --> 01:31:16.600
they were like, oh, it could be anything.

1631
01:31:16.960 --> 01:31:19.560
Yeah, I mean, it's not Canada. They're not just like, oh,

1632
01:31:19.600 --> 01:31:21.800
well die, well.

1633
01:31:21.840 --> 01:31:23.840
Yeah, we'll just do it anyway, maybe they'll die.

1634
01:31:24.359 --> 01:31:28.560
Doctors concluded that the illness was unsurvivable for Heather Wilkinson,

1635
01:31:28.800 --> 01:31:31.840
Donald Patterson, and Gail Patterson. So the guy who ate

1636
01:31:31.880 --> 01:31:35.479
the one and a half portions lived, Yeah, yeah, he

1637
01:31:35.680 --> 01:31:39.800
just made of tougher stuff. Bro. I guess that's so sad.

1638
01:31:40.600 --> 01:31:42.640
I'm so like, I'm trying to make jokes, but this

1639
01:31:42.680 --> 01:31:45.239
is really freaking horrible, and I hope this lady gets

1640
01:31:45.920 --> 01:31:48.800
locked in the smallest cage for the longest amount of time.

1641
01:31:49.279 --> 01:31:50.680
Yeah, I guess, Heather.

1642
01:31:50.960 --> 01:31:53.960
Well, I'm sorry, I forgot. Michelle's only is pro death

1643
01:31:54.000 --> 01:31:54.920
penalty in all.

1644
01:31:54.760 --> 01:31:57.119
Cases, Oh right, right.

1645
01:31:57.159 --> 01:31:59.600
Including shoplifting and tax fraud.

1646
01:32:01.079 --> 01:32:03.479
We don't need to keep them, just hear it.

1647
01:32:04.720 --> 01:32:07.920
Heather Wilkinson and Gil Patterson died on August fourth and

1648
01:32:08.000 --> 01:32:12.640
Donald Patterson died the following day. Ian Wilkinson, the sole survivor,

1649
01:32:12.800 --> 01:32:17.119
was extabated on August fourteenth and discharged to rehabilitation on

1650
01:32:17.159 --> 01:32:20.039
September eleventh. He was in the hospital for a month

1651
01:32:20.520 --> 01:32:25.079
and he's intbated, which is serious. So how did Aaron

1652
01:32:25.159 --> 01:32:27.920
Patterson react? Yeah, because we haven't heard anything about her

1653
01:32:27.960 --> 01:32:29.720
being in the hospital. It sounds like she didn't go

1654
01:32:29.760 --> 01:32:30.359
to the hospital.

1655
01:32:31.000 --> 01:32:32.159
Yeah.

1656
01:32:32.680 --> 01:32:36.520
Accounts from prosecutors, police, and Simon Patterson paint a picture

1657
01:32:36.560 --> 01:32:40.000
of Aaron Patterson's behavior in the hours and days after

1658
01:32:40.039 --> 01:32:43.439
the lunch turned tragic. Simon said the first he heard

1659
01:32:43.479 --> 01:32:46.239
of her feeling unwell was the following morning, when she

1660
01:32:46.399 --> 01:32:50.239
said she'd had diarrhea since the previous night. By that point,

1661
01:32:50.399 --> 01:32:53.600
seeing how his relatives were faring, he urged her to

1662
01:32:53.680 --> 01:32:57.319
go to the hospital. Prosecutors say Patterson was admitted to

1663
01:32:57.439 --> 01:32:59.920
urgent care when the hospital learned she had been at

1664
01:32:59.920 --> 01:33:03.159
the lunch, but that she was adamant she would not stay.

1665
01:33:05.079 --> 01:33:09.680
That's weird. She initially resisted treatment and at one point

1666
01:33:09.840 --> 01:33:13.119
walked out against medical advice.

1667
01:33:14.079 --> 01:33:15.600
Jeez, what is she doing?

1668
01:33:16.680 --> 01:33:17.760
I don't know?

1669
01:33:18.439 --> 01:33:20.199
We're gonna stay Yeah.

1670
01:33:20.359 --> 01:33:23.399
Why wouldn't Yeah, why was she being like, that's so weird.

1671
01:33:23.720 --> 01:33:27.319
We're gonna dive even further. We got to take another break.

1672
01:33:27.319 --> 01:33:30.720
This is the most interesting spooky news we've ever covered.

1673
01:33:31.239 --> 01:33:34.760
I am so into this. We'll talk more right after this.

1674
01:33:41.720 --> 01:33:45.520
All right, this story gets crazier by the second. I

1675
01:33:45.600 --> 01:33:49.239
did look up what the antidote for death cap mushrooms is.

1676
01:33:50.239 --> 01:33:56.560
It's candido cyanine green is what it's called. But it

1677
01:33:56.600 --> 01:33:59.640
is somewhat experimental. It was only discovered in twenty twenty

1678
01:33:59.640 --> 01:34:02.920
three that it could help, and generally only helps within

1679
01:34:03.079 --> 01:34:07.279
hours of consumption. Okay, so it unlikely that it would

1680
01:34:07.319 --> 01:34:10.800
have helped anyone. That's probably why they didn't administer it.

1681
01:34:11.159 --> 01:34:14.399
Because it can also cause, although not major side effects,

1682
01:34:14.399 --> 01:34:17.199
it can cause nausea and vomiting. So if you're already

1683
01:34:17.479 --> 01:34:20.199
puking and vomiting, it's like, if this won't help, I

1684
01:34:20.239 --> 01:34:20.600
don't know.

1685
01:34:21.079 --> 01:34:21.399
Yeah.

1686
01:34:21.479 --> 01:34:26.279
Yeah, So we're talking about how Aaron Patterson, the alleged murderer,

1687
01:34:28.840 --> 01:34:32.479
how she reacted, and it's getting weird, man, it's getting

1688
01:34:32.520 --> 01:34:36.199
really weird. Because she claimed to be sick, went to

1689
01:34:36.239 --> 01:34:40.399
the urgent care and then stormed away against their medical advice,

1690
01:34:40.439 --> 01:34:43.840
refused treatment, refused to stay there overnight. Meanwhile, everybody else

1691
01:34:43.840 --> 01:34:46.760
who was even mildly exposed to this either died or

1692
01:34:46.840 --> 01:34:48.239
was in the hospital for a month.

1693
01:34:48.840 --> 01:34:53.079
Yeah, yeah, a month. Yeah.

1694
01:34:53.239 --> 01:34:56.399
Patterson also pushed back against the idea of bringing her

1695
01:34:56.479 --> 01:35:00.159
kids to the hospital, which doctors recommended, after learning that

1696
01:35:00.159 --> 01:35:02.159
they had eaten leftovers.

1697
01:35:02.600 --> 01:35:05.000
Oh I guess there were just leftovers. Oh right, because

1698
01:35:05.000 --> 01:35:07.279
she didn't they didn't really eat leftovers yet. Okay, got it,

1699
01:35:07.359 --> 01:35:07.680
got it?

1700
01:35:07.760 --> 01:35:10.760
Yeah, yeah, she's she's lying because she's trying to get

1701
01:35:10.760 --> 01:35:14.119
them to not worry. What did she think was going

1702
01:35:14.159 --> 01:35:18.880
to happen when they were fine? Patterson said she had

1703
01:35:18.920 --> 01:35:22.079
scraped off the pastry and mushrooms because they didn't like

1704
01:35:22.159 --> 01:35:24.359
the vegetables.

1705
01:35:25.119 --> 01:35:30.399
Pastry is not vegetables.

1706
01:35:29.680 --> 01:35:32.239
I'm guessing because the pastry was flavored like the vegetables.

1707
01:35:32.279 --> 01:35:38.199
After I don't know, Rogers said. Doctors remembered Patterson becoming

1708
01:35:38.199 --> 01:35:41.199
emotional when asked to bring her kids in, saying they

1709
01:35:41.199 --> 01:35:43.560
didn't have symptoms and she didn't want to take them

1710
01:35:43.560 --> 01:35:47.520
out of school. Quote. They did not eat the mushrooms.

1711
01:35:47.560 --> 01:35:50.239
A doctor recalled her saying, I just want them to

1712
01:35:50.279 --> 01:35:52.680
be panicked. I just don't. I just don't want them

1713
01:35:52.720 --> 01:35:57.039
to be panicked and stressed. Simon, I would. I'm sorry.

1714
01:35:57.199 --> 01:35:59.439
I think you and I have the same experience with mothers.

1715
01:36:00.119 --> 01:36:02.800
My mother thought. I was there was any possibility I

1716
01:36:02.840 --> 01:36:07.720
had consumed anything poisonous, I would be in that hospital immediately.

1717
01:36:08.199 --> 01:36:08.640
Yeah.

1718
01:36:08.920 --> 01:36:14.600
Period. Yeah, the end, like that is such a bizarre thing.

1719
01:36:14.600 --> 01:36:19.159
It's literally like, well, everybody else is basically dying, and

1720
01:36:19.239 --> 01:36:21.199
you seem oddly okay, said, well, I had a bit

1721
01:36:21.239 --> 01:36:24.560
of diarrhea, Like God, she's the worst. Yeah.

1722
01:36:24.600 --> 01:36:28.039
And also she specifically said to the people in the

1723
01:36:28.039 --> 01:36:30.439
hospital like, oh, no, they didn't eat the mushrooms, which

1724
01:36:30.479 --> 01:36:32.520
is a weird thing to say.

1725
01:36:34.680 --> 01:36:36.520
Well, I think they had said we think it's the mushrooms,

1726
01:36:36.520 --> 01:36:40.319
because remember they diagnosed them with mushroom poisoning or well

1727
01:36:40.399 --> 01:36:41.960
thought to be mushroom poisoning. Rather.

1728
01:36:42.199 --> 01:36:44.399
Yeah, I mean, I don't know. It's just weird.

1729
01:36:45.159 --> 01:36:48.159
No, it's totally weird. Simon testified that he brought the

1730
01:36:48.239 --> 01:36:50.880
kids to the hospital where they were kept overnight, but

1731
01:36:51.039 --> 01:36:54.239
found not to be ill. He testified on Friday that

1732
01:36:54.279 --> 01:36:58.279
Patterson never actually asked about how his hospitalized relatives were

1733
01:36:58.279 --> 01:37:01.560
doing they had like they're in the hospital in critical condition.

1734
01:37:01.600 --> 01:37:04.199
She never even thought to ask, yeah, well they're not

1735
01:37:04.279 --> 01:37:06.279
doing good. I mean, why does she need to know?

1736
01:37:07.720 --> 01:37:12.800
According to Rogers, Patterson's doctors determined she was moderately dehydrated

1737
01:37:13.000 --> 01:37:17.039
and appeared to have a gastro intestinal type illness, but

1738
01:37:17.199 --> 01:37:23.279
had quote no clinical or biochemical evidence of aminita poisoning

1739
01:37:23.479 --> 01:37:29.439
or other toxicological substance ingestion. She was discharged in August first,

1740
01:37:30.000 --> 01:37:33.680
so before most of them were dead. She was already home. Yeah,

1741
01:37:34.000 --> 01:37:36.239
so see, Yeah, they found no evidence that she had

1742
01:37:36.239 --> 01:37:42.119
consumed that stuff. Much later, prosecutors had an intensive care specialist,

1743
01:37:42.119 --> 01:37:47.119
Andrew Bernstein, review Patterson's medical files. They said Burston saw

1744
01:37:47.319 --> 01:37:50.319
no evidence that she suffered an acute illness on July thirtieth,

1745
01:37:50.439 --> 01:37:52.399
or that she had been diagnosed with cancer in mid

1746
01:37:52.439 --> 01:37:56.520
twenty twenty three, as she claimed the Victorian Cancer Registry,

1747
01:37:56.560 --> 01:38:00.840
to which diagnosis diagnoses are legally required to be reported.

1748
01:38:01.520 --> 01:38:04.880
Does that sound that feels weird? That's weird You legally

1749
01:38:05.000 --> 01:38:07.359
are required to report cancer?

1750
01:38:07.880 --> 01:38:10.399
Okay, Well, maybe it's because of the way healthcare works,

1751
01:38:10.800 --> 01:38:14.720
you know, because if it's all part of the government system,

1752
01:38:14.800 --> 01:38:17.239
maybe it just is reported.

1753
01:38:17.840 --> 01:38:19.920
Or it's like a firearms registry. It's so that one

1754
01:38:20.000 --> 01:38:23.199
day they can round up all the cancer patients.

1755
01:38:22.880 --> 01:38:24.399
And kill it.

1756
01:38:24.399 --> 01:38:24.720
I don't know.

1757
01:38:25.119 --> 01:38:27.880
I feel like I feel like we got that under control.

1758
01:38:28.119 --> 01:38:32.239
Like, but they said they had no record of her

1759
01:38:32.319 --> 01:38:37.079
at the Victorian Cancer Registry. Death cat mushrooms. I'm sorry.

1760
01:38:37.560 --> 01:38:39.640
It's see, this would work better if they didn't have

1761
01:38:39.680 --> 01:38:42.439
a cancer registry. It's like everything is against her.

1762
01:38:43.039 --> 01:38:45.840
No, really, well, I would not. Lying about cancer is

1763
01:38:45.840 --> 01:38:48.399
something people can catch you real easy because you have

1764
01:38:48.439 --> 01:38:52.640
to have a doctor. Yeah. Death cat mushrooms are responsible

1765
01:38:52.680 --> 01:38:57.079
for ninety percent of deaths by fungus with half a

1766
01:38:57.159 --> 01:38:59.760
cap or even less enough to kill a person.

1767
01:39:00.079 --> 01:39:00.880
Yeah, they're really bad.

1768
01:39:01.079 --> 01:39:04.800
Yeah. The Victorian government says symptoms including diarrhea, vomiting, and

1769
01:39:04.840 --> 01:39:07.800
stomach cramps typically occur six to twenty four hours after

1770
01:39:07.800 --> 01:39:10.720
consumption and can be fatal within forty eight hours.

1771
01:39:11.119 --> 01:39:11.479
Wow.

1772
01:39:12.000 --> 01:39:15.319
The mushrooms are found in Europe, Australia and North America,

1773
01:39:15.680 --> 01:39:19.199
usually in temperate forests or urban areas with exotic trees.

1774
01:39:20.279 --> 01:39:22.960
In April twenty twenty three, just months before Patterson had

1775
01:39:22.960 --> 01:39:25.479
her relatives over for lunch, the Victoria Department of Health

1776
01:39:25.520 --> 01:39:28.920
issued an advisory warning that death cap mushrooms were growing

1777
01:39:28.960 --> 01:39:29.439
in the state.

1778
01:39:30.680 --> 01:39:33.800
Here's where to find them so you can poison your relatives.

1779
01:39:34.239 --> 01:39:36.039
Thank you for not making me have to say that,

1780
01:39:36.119 --> 01:39:39.880
which is exactly what I was thinking that very month.

1781
01:39:40.319 --> 01:39:44.600
Prosecutors say a local pharmacist noticed death cap mushrooms growing

1782
01:39:44.680 --> 01:39:47.359
under oak trees during a walk in the nearby township

1783
01:39:47.359 --> 01:39:50.680
of Locke and documented them on a naturalist website.

1784
01:39:51.039 --> 01:39:54.840
I love this, really shit she documented them an a naturalist.

1785
01:39:54.399 --> 01:39:58.199
Probably probably this was the pharmacist.

1786
01:39:58.800 --> 01:40:02.359
Yeah, yeah, I know, I know, but like, yeah.

1787
01:40:02.039 --> 01:40:05.079
Uh I thought it was like and on the Victoria

1788
01:40:05.439 --> 01:40:08.800
National Death Cap Mushrooms Registry, which is a legally required

1789
01:40:08.800 --> 01:40:11.399
place to register all deathcap mushrooms.

1790
01:40:11.119 --> 01:40:13.479
But easy for anyone to access so that they can

1791
01:40:13.600 --> 01:40:16.159
find exactly where they are, has GPS cordate.

1792
01:40:17.560 --> 01:40:21.800
In April, Patterson allegedly purchased an electronic food dehydrator, and,

1793
01:40:22.279 --> 01:40:28.920
according to location data seized from her phones, oh my god,

1794
01:40:29.880 --> 01:40:34.680
traveled to the area of Locke, but in interviews with police,

1795
01:40:34.800 --> 01:40:39.159
she denied owning a dehydrator and foraging for mushrooms.

1796
01:40:39.760 --> 01:40:43.920
Yeah, she just maybe she didn't understand what foraging meant maybe.

1797
01:40:44.399 --> 01:40:47.760
In the immediate aftermath of the incident, incident, Patterson told

1798
01:40:47.800 --> 01:40:51.720
doctors and investigators that she had used two kinds of

1799
01:40:51.840 --> 01:40:55.800
mushrooms in her dish, fresh from the grocery store and

1800
01:40:55.960 --> 01:40:59.520
dried from a Chinese grocer in the area. Oh yes,

1801
01:41:00.359 --> 01:41:06.239
m gets worse though she couldn't remember which one.

1802
01:41:07.159 --> 01:41:09.800
Well, she doesn't want to get them in trouble. Actually,

1803
01:41:10.199 --> 01:41:13.039
oh please, yeah. Actually, like if they if she said,

1804
01:41:13.119 --> 01:41:14.680
and then they went there, they would say that they

1805
01:41:14.720 --> 01:41:16.840
don't have any death cab mushrooms so.

1806
01:41:17.680 --> 01:41:20.399
Or better yet, they would, but they'd be clearly labeled

1807
01:41:20.439 --> 01:41:23.239
like death like going to kill people, will kill anyone

1808
01:41:23.279 --> 01:41:23.840
who eats it.

1809
01:41:24.039 --> 01:41:27.079
Yeah, like only feed to your enemies, and you have

1810
01:41:27.119 --> 01:41:28.199
to sign a waiver.

1811
01:41:28.039 --> 01:41:30.720
That you know and that you're killing someone with them

1812
01:41:30.760 --> 01:41:31.520
on purpose. Yes.

1813
01:41:31.760 --> 01:41:33.359
Yeah, the worst.

1814
01:41:33.199 --> 01:41:35.159
Part is saying a Chinese grocer, but I don't remember

1815
01:41:35.159 --> 01:41:37.880
which one. It's like I wonder if in the statements

1816
01:41:37.880 --> 01:41:39.840
that she's just a trash human being anyway she didn't

1817
01:41:39.840 --> 01:41:41.800
just say like they oh look alike, don't they, you know,

1818
01:41:41.880 --> 01:41:44.520
Like just is like what a horrible person.

1819
01:41:44.640 --> 01:41:48.079
And also like come on, man, any any no one

1820
01:41:48.159 --> 01:41:51.199
is selling death cat mushrooms in a grocery store. That's

1821
01:41:51.239 --> 01:41:52.560
not That's not how the world works.

1822
01:41:52.680 --> 01:41:54.880
So no, I'd be like I thought, I went to

1823
01:41:54.920 --> 01:41:56.680
a place because I thought they had death Cat mushrooms,

1824
01:41:56.720 --> 01:41:58.439
but I found out that they said death Cab for

1825
01:41:58.520 --> 01:41:59.920
Qtie albums.

1826
01:42:00.319 --> 01:42:03.119
Yeah, and also they sell mushrooms because they're a combination

1827
01:42:03.319 --> 01:42:05.039
music store and grocery place.

1828
01:42:07.840 --> 01:42:10.520
And then they checked the store only mushrooms but not those.

1829
01:42:10.800 --> 01:42:14.439
Turns out that not those was deathcat mushrooms, so we're good.

1830
01:42:15.319 --> 01:42:18.119
As part of its investigation into the incident, the Department

1831
01:42:18.159 --> 01:42:22.399
of Health checked all Asian grocery stores in the surrounding suburbs.

1832
01:42:23.000 --> 01:42:26.920
Prosecutors say the Health Department was quote unable to identify

1833
01:42:27.000 --> 01:42:30.840
any store in the suburbs that sold mushrooms, as described

1834
01:42:31.079 --> 01:42:32.319
by Patterson.

1835
01:42:32.840 --> 01:42:37.399
Of course, of course, I mean that's not a thing.

1836
01:42:37.960 --> 01:42:41.840
This is crazy. I will keep I'm gonna keep up

1837
01:42:41.880 --> 01:42:46.119
with this. If this woman has not found absolutely positively guilty,

1838
01:42:46.760 --> 01:42:52.800
I will be very upset. Yeah yeah, so wow, wow,

1839
01:42:52.880 --> 01:42:56.079
Well that kind of stole some of the thunder because

1840
01:42:56.119 --> 01:42:58.520
I was excited to talk about the curse of Dudley Town.

1841
01:42:58.840 --> 01:43:02.600
Mm hmmm, we're gonna into that which is considered one

1842
01:43:02.600 --> 01:43:05.479
of the most infamous lost towns in the history of America.

1843
01:43:06.640 --> 01:43:17.840
After this, okay, okay, before we get to the Curse

1844
01:43:17.840 --> 01:43:21.800
of Dudley Town, and I am excited about it. I

1845
01:43:22.039 --> 01:43:24.960
was setting a Google alert about this story we had

1846
01:43:25.000 --> 01:43:26.960
just been reading because I wanted to find out if

1847
01:43:27.000 --> 01:43:29.920
she was found guilty or not. Right, I find out

1848
01:43:29.920 --> 01:43:35.600
there's a news piece that dropped today, like very recently

1849
01:43:35.680 --> 01:43:39.880
today that is more information that came out in the trial,

1850
01:43:39.960 --> 01:43:42.479
and I felt like Michelle would especially want to hear this.

1851
01:43:45.239 --> 01:43:45.840
It's funny.

1852
01:43:46.720 --> 01:43:48.560
It's funny because you said something about this.

1853
01:43:49.039 --> 01:43:49.239
Oh.

1854
01:43:49.239 --> 01:43:54.760
A report, a report created on wait hold on. A

1855
01:43:54.840 --> 01:43:57.880
report created on March sixteenth, twenty twenty four, was shown

1856
01:43:57.960 --> 01:44:01.960
to the jury depicting cash data searches for eye naturalists

1857
01:44:02.399 --> 01:44:05.520
using the Being search engine on March twenty eighth, twenty

1858
01:44:05.600 --> 01:44:08.359
twenty two. Asked to explain what that meant, mister Fox,

1859
01:44:08.359 --> 01:44:10.920
Henry said the search term I Naturalist was conducted by

1860
01:44:10.920 --> 01:44:14.399
Being user using the Edge browser. Another record captures a

1861
01:44:14.479 --> 01:44:20.479
visit to I Naturalists through the Microsoft Edge Browser. They

1862
01:44:21.000 --> 01:44:25.000
they found on her computer her searching for deathcap mushrooms.

1863
01:44:25.079 --> 01:44:28.279
Of course they did ONNI naturalists. You have to do

1864
01:44:28.479 --> 01:44:31.560
you have to do like an incognito search. You can't.

1865
01:44:31.960 --> 01:44:34.920
You can't or go to like the library or something.

1866
01:44:35.000 --> 01:44:37.640
Don't do it on your computer? What you even sane?

1867
01:44:39.159 --> 01:44:42.199
Well, I had to mention that because you mentioned I naturalist. Yeah,

1868
01:44:42.279 --> 01:44:43.920
so I want to mention that. Yeah, they've now found

1869
01:44:44.000 --> 01:44:46.840
that she was researching man. Yeah, she was not a

1870
01:44:46.960 --> 01:44:49.239
smart person by any stretch.

1871
01:44:49.439 --> 01:44:51.560
I mean, I think this is really smart. It just

1872
01:44:51.680 --> 01:44:54.239
there was just no like forethought about like what was

1873
01:44:54.279 --> 01:44:56.600
going to happen afterwards because it worked.

1874
01:44:56.760 --> 01:44:58.560
I mean there was like a small amount of thought

1875
01:44:58.600 --> 01:44:59.520
I guess at best.

1876
01:45:00.239 --> 01:45:02.239
So not about what was going to happen afterwards.

1877
01:45:02.399 --> 01:45:04.960
No, No, no, no, who thinks like that. That's boring,

1878
01:45:05.039 --> 01:45:05.840
that's loser talking.

1879
01:45:05.920 --> 01:45:09.039
Well, then you just said that she's smart, because that's

1880
01:45:09.079 --> 01:45:09.760
the matter.

1881
01:45:10.479 --> 01:45:14.560
I stand by longest time, smallest cage. All Right, so

1882
01:45:14.760 --> 01:45:17.079
we're finally going to talk about the Curse of Dudley Town.

1883
01:45:17.159 --> 01:45:20.960
I had never heard of Dudley Town until I looked

1884
01:45:20.960 --> 01:45:23.399
into this story. I'm guessing you had not either. No

1885
01:45:24.680 --> 01:45:28.199
for many years. Oh this is from American hauntings ink

1886
01:45:28.520 --> 01:45:32.000
dot com, although at first I thought it was American

1887
01:45:32.000 --> 01:45:36.239
haunting sink dot com because it's ink I NK Haunting Sink.

1888
01:45:36.960 --> 01:45:40.760
For many years, ghost hunters have been fascinated by tales

1889
01:45:40.800 --> 01:45:44.159
of the lost village of Dudley Town, a vanished Connecticut

1890
01:45:44.279 --> 01:45:48.560
village that was apparently plagued by ghosts, demons, and residents

1891
01:45:48.600 --> 01:45:54.479
who vanished without a trace. These graves, these grave events

1892
01:45:54.520 --> 01:45:57.319
were said to be caused by a curse brought by

1893
01:45:57.359 --> 01:46:01.640
the Dudley family to the New World. But how real

1894
01:46:02.119 --> 01:46:06.079
was this curse? As the reader will soon find, this

1895
01:46:06.520 --> 01:46:09.279
so called curse was nothing more than the product of

1896
01:46:09.319 --> 01:46:13.600
active imaginations. But as you will also discover, there was

1897
01:46:13.640 --> 01:46:19.279
something very strange occurring in Dudley Town. Whether cursed or not.

1898
01:46:20.000 --> 01:46:22.840
That's a good opener. I thought. I was like, oh,

1899
01:46:22.880 --> 01:46:25.279
this is fine. It's like no, it's still scary. I'm like, okay, okay.

1900
01:46:27.520 --> 01:46:31.039
In the far reaches of northwestern Connecticut, in the shadows

1901
01:46:31.039 --> 01:46:33.439
of the mountains and lost in the pages of time,

1902
01:46:33.600 --> 01:46:37.319
rests the remains of a small village called Dudley Town.

1903
01:46:38.039 --> 01:46:41.800
The homes of this once thriving community are long gone,

1904
01:46:42.359 --> 01:46:45.800
but the land where the town once stood is far

1905
01:46:45.880 --> 01:46:51.760
from empty. Amidst the forest and rocks, or tales of ghosts, demons,

1906
01:46:51.760 --> 01:46:56.279
and unexplained mysteries, curses, and a rich history that dates

1907
01:46:56.359 --> 01:47:01.279
back to the very beginnings of America. Today, only the

1908
01:47:01.399 --> 01:47:06.840
cellar holes and a few stone foundations remain. The roads

1909
01:47:06.880 --> 01:47:09.600
that once traverse to this place are now little more

1910
01:47:09.680 --> 01:47:13.760
than narrow trails where only a few adventurous hikers and

1911
01:47:13.800 --> 01:47:18.720
the occasional ghost hunter dare to wander. Although it is forbidden,

1912
01:47:19.159 --> 01:47:23.079
the most hardened curiosity seekers still dare to venture down

1913
01:47:23.439 --> 01:47:28.000
dark Entry Road and into these shadowy woods at night.

1914
01:47:29.239 --> 01:47:31.119
We need to do a kickstarter or something for you

1915
01:47:31.159 --> 01:47:33.680
and me to go to like all these places just came.

1916
01:47:34.119 --> 01:47:37.840
Yeah, I do it, and we got to stay over

1917
01:47:37.960 --> 01:47:39.720
in some of them and then get arrested.

1918
01:47:40.119 --> 01:47:42.399
Ooh so so well, now we got to add bail

1919
01:47:42.520 --> 01:47:48.720
money to the estimated amount we need to raise lawyers fees. No, so,

1920
01:47:48.760 --> 01:47:50.159
how much money do you think we need to raise?

1921
01:47:50.239 --> 01:47:50.920
Like twenty million?

1922
01:47:51.680 --> 01:47:54.680
Okay, I mean I was gonna say like five dollars total,

1923
01:47:54.760 --> 01:47:56.640
I do.

1924
01:47:56.800 --> 01:47:58.079
What about gasoline?

1925
01:47:58.439 --> 01:48:00.840
Oh, we're just gonna right.

1926
01:48:01.119 --> 01:48:03.600
Oh gosh, what about shoes?

1927
01:48:04.680 --> 01:48:05.760
You don't have shoes?

1928
01:48:06.119 --> 01:48:08.520
We'll wear them out walking all the way to Connecticut.

1929
01:48:08.640 --> 01:48:11.039
No, I've just got new hiking sandals. I think I

1930
01:48:11.079 --> 01:48:11.600
can do it.

1931
01:48:12.000 --> 01:48:14.079
Am I at least allowed to drive to you and

1932
01:48:14.119 --> 01:48:15.000
then we walk there.

1933
01:48:18.680 --> 01:48:19.600
I guess.

1934
01:48:21.680 --> 01:48:26.680
You're like, you're making this so much less good. Yeah.

1935
01:48:27.159 --> 01:48:30.279
Dudley Town, or at least the area where it was located,

1936
01:48:30.720 --> 01:48:34.520
was first owned by a man named Thomas Griffiths, one

1937
01:48:34.520 --> 01:48:37.680
of the first to settle in this region in the

1938
01:48:37.720 --> 01:48:41.439
early nineties. In the early seventeen forties. There are no

1939
01:48:41.560 --> 01:48:44.359
records to say that he ever lived where Dudley Town

1940
01:48:44.439 --> 01:48:47.680
later stood, but he did own half of the land

1941
01:48:48.119 --> 01:48:52.039
in seventeen forty one. A few years later, with the

1942
01:48:52.159 --> 01:48:56.319
arrival of Gideon Dudley in seventeen forty seven, the village

1943
01:48:56.359 --> 01:49:00.000
would be named Gideon was followed to the region by

1944
01:49:00.079 --> 01:49:03.439
two brothers, and Dudley's have become known over the years

1945
01:49:03.479 --> 01:49:06.399
as the men who brought a curse to this small town,

1946
01:49:08.439 --> 01:49:12.720
a curse that has allegedly plagued the region ever since.

1947
01:49:13.800 --> 01:49:17.880
Oh this is hard for me because growing up there

1948
01:49:17.920 --> 01:49:20.479
was a tag team wrestling team called the Dudley Boys,

1949
01:49:21.319 --> 01:49:24.479
and they were like really silly. They were like like

1950
01:49:24.560 --> 01:49:27.199
tied I and nerd glasses and stuff, but they were

1951
01:49:27.239 --> 01:49:31.840
like really mean and kind of like evil rednecky. But

1952
01:49:31.920 --> 01:49:37.359
they were from Dudleyville, Pennsylvania or New York. Actually, I

1953
01:49:37.359 --> 01:49:39.319
think it was both. I think they claimed both because

1954
01:49:39.600 --> 01:49:42.560
it was all made up anyway, Yeah, I think Dudleyville. Yeah,

1955
01:49:42.600 --> 01:49:44.239
they would say PA when they were in PA and

1956
01:49:44.279 --> 01:49:45.760
New York when they were in New York because that

1957
01:49:45.800 --> 01:49:49.199
was based out of Philadelphia where they were working. But

1958
01:49:50.199 --> 01:49:57.000
damn anyway, I'm still thinking about that lady poisoning.

1959
01:49:56.640 --> 01:49:59.800
All Yeah, me too, get caught? Yeah, me too.

1960
01:50:00.439 --> 01:50:01.840
At what point do you confess?

1961
01:50:02.079 --> 01:50:04.680
Okay, I guess at this point she doesn't need to

1962
01:50:04.800 --> 01:50:08.159
because I mean why at this point?

1963
01:50:08.239 --> 01:50:10.600
I mean, usually get a lesser sentence if you if

1964
01:50:10.600 --> 01:50:14.199
you do it, plead guilty. You well, you make a

1965
01:50:14.239 --> 01:50:16.319
deal that if you give a guilty plea, you'll get

1966
01:50:16.359 --> 01:50:17.399
this and that and this and that.

1967
01:50:17.640 --> 01:50:20.199
Well do they The thing is like, that's in the US.

1968
01:50:20.239 --> 01:50:22.800
What do they do in Australia. I don't know if

1969
01:50:22.800 --> 01:50:25.479
they have I have to have they have to Did

1970
01:50:25.479 --> 01:50:27.319
you know that you don't have to say you're guilty

1971
01:50:27.359 --> 01:50:28.119
to get a plea deal?

1972
01:50:29.199 --> 01:50:30.600
What? Yeah?

1973
01:50:30.880 --> 01:50:32.760
Yeah, I learned about things.

1974
01:50:33.640 --> 01:50:34.760
What does that mean? Then?

1975
01:50:34.800 --> 01:50:37.399
What do you do you just you just you can

1976
01:50:37.479 --> 01:50:40.079
accept a plea deal without, say, without admitting guilt.

1977
01:50:40.800 --> 01:50:42.359
Oh well, I mean you can. I mean a plea

1978
01:50:42.439 --> 01:50:45.039
deal is based on what you negotiate, so yeah, yeah,

1979
01:50:45.680 --> 01:50:50.680
you could also plead no contest okay, which basically means

1980
01:50:50.720 --> 01:50:52.880
that you you did it, but you're not saying you

1981
01:50:52.880 --> 01:50:53.119
did it.

1982
01:50:53.560 --> 01:50:53.960
Mm hmm.

1983
01:50:54.359 --> 01:50:57.199
It's more complicated than that. Australia totally has plea deals.

1984
01:50:57.239 --> 01:50:57.920
I just googled it.

1985
01:50:58.319 --> 01:51:01.000
Well, she didn't do it, so she's not gonna do

1986
01:51:01.119 --> 01:51:01.760
a plea deal.

1987
01:51:02.039 --> 01:51:07.039
No, no, she's not. Oh yeah, Nola contendiere means a

1988
01:51:07.079 --> 01:51:09.760
defendant neither admits nor denies guilt charges, but agrees to

1989
01:51:09.800 --> 01:51:13.600
accept the penalties associated with a conviction. Okay, anyway, sorry,

1990
01:51:13.680 --> 01:51:16.439
I just man, this is gonna be. This is living

1991
01:51:16.439 --> 01:51:18.000
rent free in my brain for a while.

1992
01:51:18.479 --> 01:51:20.359
Yeah yeah, wow.

1993
01:51:20.720 --> 01:51:22.640
We're gonna take a break and then we're gonna get

1994
01:51:22.960 --> 01:51:26.680
properly on the road to Dudley Town. Right after this.

1995
01:51:26.680 --> 01:51:39.119
This has never happened to me before. The all right

1996
01:51:39.720 --> 01:51:43.039
back to Dudley Town as far from Australia as we

1997
01:51:43.079 --> 01:51:46.840
can get. According to what have turned out to be

1998
01:51:46.880 --> 01:51:51.199
both recent and fanciful accounts, the curse had its beginnings

1999
01:51:51.239 --> 01:51:55.319
in England in fifteen ten. At that time, Edmund Dudley

2000
01:51:55.680 --> 01:51:58.720
was beheaded for being involved in a plot to overthrow

2001
01:51:58.800 --> 01:52:02.680
King Henry the Eighth.

2002
01:52:03.279 --> 01:52:03.840
I hate.

2003
01:52:05.279 --> 01:52:08.199
Oh god, I'm so glad that brought the same page. Yeah,

2004
01:52:08.239 --> 01:52:10.000
I counted it loud because I was like, at least

2005
01:52:10.039 --> 01:52:11.880
it could be funny that I literally have to figure

2006
01:52:11.880 --> 01:52:15.720
it out. Supposedly, a curse was placed on the family

2007
01:52:15.800 --> 01:52:19.039
at this time, which stated that all the Dudley descendants

2008
01:52:19.159 --> 01:52:23.800
would be surrounded by horror and death. Proponents of the

2009
01:52:23.840 --> 01:52:26.680
curse claim that the Dudleys then began to experience a

2010
01:52:26.800 --> 01:52:29.439
rather disquieting run of bad luck.

2011
01:52:32.399 --> 01:52:36.239
I mean sure, I mean to say, you all the

2012
01:52:36.239 --> 01:52:38.800
whole family would be surrounded by death, Like you can

2013
01:52:38.840 --> 01:52:40.520
just say that it's always going to be true.

2014
01:52:41.000 --> 01:52:45.800
Yeah, oh man, yeah, yeah, yeah, Michelle, you are on

2015
01:52:45.800 --> 01:52:51.319
one today. Oh I'm proud of you. Edmund's son John Dudley,

2016
01:52:51.399 --> 01:52:54.560
also attempted to control the British throne by arranging for

2017
01:52:54.640 --> 01:52:58.720
his son Gulford to marry Lady Jane Gray, next in

2018
01:52:58.800 --> 01:53:01.359
line for the crown, right, Like they'd be like, yeah,

2019
01:53:01.399 --> 01:53:04.399
we want Lady Jane Gray to become Lady Jane Dudley.

2020
01:53:04.600 --> 01:53:12.159
Not happening, No, not happening. Gross. After Edward the sixth died,

2021
01:53:12.560 --> 01:53:15.560
Lady Jane became the queen for a short time before

2022
01:53:15.560 --> 01:53:19.239
the plan failed, ending with the execution of Lady Jane

2023
01:53:19.319 --> 01:53:25.840
and the two Dudley's. To make matters worse, okay, go on,

2024
01:53:27.520 --> 01:53:31.960
Guliford's brother returned from France and, being a military officer,

2025
01:53:32.239 --> 01:53:34.960
brought home a plague that he spread to his officers

2026
01:53:34.960 --> 01:53:39.359
and troops. The sickness wiped out massive numbers of British

2027
01:53:39.600 --> 01:53:44.920
soldiers and eventually spread throughout the country, killing thousands.

2028
01:53:45.239 --> 01:53:46.079
Wow.

2029
01:53:48.560 --> 01:53:49.680
These damn Dudley's.

2030
01:53:50.279 --> 01:53:52.119
Yeah, always messing stuff up.

2031
01:53:52.880 --> 01:53:57.640
John Dudley's third son, Robert, Earl of Leicester, a favorite

2032
01:53:57.640 --> 01:54:04.640
of Queen Elizabeth First, just wisely decided to leave England

2033
01:54:04.680 --> 01:54:06.840
and travel to the New World. We don't want you.

2034
01:54:07.479 --> 01:54:11.039
It would be his somewhat luckier descendant, William, who would

2035
01:54:11.079 --> 01:54:17.800
settle in Gulliford, Connecticut. Three of William's descendants, Abel, Brazel

2036
01:54:17.880 --> 01:54:21.199
and Gideon, would later buy a plot of land in

2037
01:54:21.319 --> 01:54:26.319
Cornwall Township. While there undoubtedly some grim events that surrounded

2038
01:54:26.319 --> 01:54:29.439
the Dudley family in England and France. Questions have been

2039
01:54:29.520 --> 01:54:32.960
raised as to whether or not any curse really followed

2040
01:54:33.000 --> 01:54:36.439
them to America. The question has been raised because in

2041
01:54:36.560 --> 01:54:39.079
order for the curse to have been passed along to

2042
01:54:39.119 --> 01:54:42.239
account for the haunting of Dudley Town, then William Dudley

2043
01:54:42.239 --> 01:54:45.279
would would have to have had been the son of Robert,

2044
01:54:45.479 --> 01:54:48.039
Earl of Leicester. But he wasn't.

2045
01:54:48.720 --> 01:54:49.960
Oh, no, I guess.

2046
01:54:50.399 --> 01:54:53.399
Robert Dudley had only two sons, and one of them

2047
01:54:53.479 --> 01:54:56.800
died while still a child. The other went to Italy,

2048
01:54:57.199 --> 01:55:00.600
and while he had children, all of them remained in County.

2049
01:55:01.600 --> 01:55:04.920
This means that there was no link between William, his

2050
01:55:05.079 --> 01:55:08.840
sons who founded Dudley Town, and any so called curse.

2051
01:55:09.680 --> 01:55:11.199
Ah.

2052
01:55:11.720 --> 01:55:14.319
But while we may have established the fact that Dudley

2053
01:55:14.359 --> 01:55:17.560
Town was never cursed, this does not mean that it

2054
01:55:17.600 --> 01:55:22.319
was not painted in some other way. I love stories

2055
01:55:22.359 --> 01:55:27.199
like this. I have goosebumps. I love this stuff. Sorry,

2056
01:55:27.239 --> 01:55:31.520
I just do, Okay, I'm There are many places across

2057
01:55:31.560 --> 01:55:34.880
the country where odd things happen and where the land

2058
01:55:34.960 --> 01:55:39.399
does not seem quite right. Records indicate that the land

2059
01:55:39.439 --> 01:55:43.880
around Dudley Town was once Mohawk Indian tribal grounds, but

2060
01:55:44.039 --> 01:55:47.560
tell us little else before the coming of the first settlers.

2061
01:55:49.119 --> 01:55:52.840
This region has gained a chilling reputation over the years.

2062
01:55:53.560 --> 01:55:58.039
Could the weird stories and strange disappearances here be connected

2063
01:55:58.039 --> 01:56:01.119
to the past in some way or are they nothing

2064
01:56:01.199 --> 01:56:08.039
more than just coincidence and imagination. Yeah, In the early

2065
01:56:08.119 --> 01:56:12.199
seventeen forties, the mention Thomas Griffiths bought a parcel of

2066
01:56:12.279 --> 01:56:15.119
land that would later be considered the first lot in

2067
01:56:15.199 --> 01:56:18.239
Dudley Town. The land today looks much as it did

2068
01:56:18.279 --> 01:56:22.039
when Griffiths first came here. It's covered in thick forest

2069
01:56:22.359 --> 01:56:26.319
and the ground is strewn with rocks. That's super normal

2070
01:56:27.039 --> 01:56:29.159
for Connecticut. By the way, do you know that about

2071
01:56:29.159 --> 01:56:34.199
New England that it's super rocky, like super rocky.

2072
01:56:34.560 --> 01:56:37.039
I mean, I know that New York is rocky.

2073
01:56:37.279 --> 01:56:40.279
It's in New England. It's insane how many rocks will

2074
01:56:40.279 --> 01:56:43.239
like push up out of the ground like rocks. It's

2075
01:56:43.279 --> 01:56:44.680
one of the I know you do. It's one of

2076
01:56:44.720 --> 01:56:47.479
the reasons there are rock walls all over New England

2077
01:56:48.880 --> 01:56:52.760
something because people would literally have like one of the

2078
01:56:52.880 --> 01:56:55.880
kids chores in New England in the olden days was

2079
01:56:55.960 --> 01:56:59.199
going and pulling the big rocks yay out of the field.

2080
01:56:59.199 --> 01:57:01.079
Because they push up. In fact, there used to be

2081
01:57:01.159 --> 01:57:03.720
jokes that like that, like people would say, like, oh, yeah,

2082
01:57:03.720 --> 01:57:05.600
he's a farmer. He had a real great at rock

2083
01:57:05.640 --> 01:57:07.720
you last year because they come out on the ground.

2084
01:57:08.960 --> 01:57:11.159
But they they made rock fences because they just had

2085
01:57:11.199 --> 01:57:14.479
such an over abundance of rocks, like a big okay,

2086
01:57:14.600 --> 01:57:18.119
big rocks. So I'm guessing, now we have to go there.

2087
01:57:18.119 --> 01:57:20.000
You're like, I heard there were rocks in Dudley Town.

2088
01:57:20.039 --> 01:57:22.119
We have to go, we do. I want to see

2089
01:57:22.119 --> 01:57:22.760
the rocks.

2090
01:57:24.279 --> 01:57:26.039
I love the idea that it's rocks that would bring

2091
01:57:26.079 --> 01:57:30.960
you there. I think, yeah anywhere. The nearby mountains also

2092
01:57:31.079 --> 01:57:35.399
heavily shadow the area, so it receives very little sunlight. Well,

2093
01:57:35.439 --> 01:57:36.920
now it just sounds like this is where they should

2094
01:57:36.920 --> 01:57:40.720
be growing Connecticut broad leaf tobacco, because that's what you want,

2095
01:57:40.880 --> 01:57:44.399
is like, yeah, is shade, and they're having horrible problems

2096
01:57:44.439 --> 01:57:46.319
with tobacco growing in Connecticut right now.

2097
01:57:46.960 --> 01:57:47.119
Oh.

2098
01:57:47.760 --> 01:57:51.119
The woods were later dubbed with rather ominous name, the

2099
01:57:51.199 --> 01:57:54.359
ominous name of Dark and Tree Forest.

2100
01:57:55.399 --> 01:58:00.399
Ooo. That's not that good, but it's still pretty okay cheese.

2101
01:58:00.520 --> 01:58:04.159
In seventeen forty seven, Gideon Dudley bought some land from

2102
01:58:04.159 --> 01:58:08.199
Griffiths to start a small town. In seventeen fifty three,

2103
01:58:08.319 --> 01:58:14.720
Gideon's two brothers, Barzalai and Abiel Dudley from Gulliford, Connecticut,

2104
01:58:14.840 --> 01:58:18.319
also purchased land nearby. A few years later, a Martin

2105
01:58:18.439 --> 01:58:21.800
Dudley from Massachusetts also moved to the area, but was

2106
01:58:21.840 --> 01:58:27.079
from a different line of the family. They're like, man,

2107
01:58:27.119 --> 01:58:29.159
it seems like this is the place for Dudley's Let's

2108
01:58:29.159 --> 01:58:32.640
get over there. Yeah, it gets funnier though. He later

2109
01:58:32.760 --> 01:58:37.239
married Gideon's daughter, so her married name was Dudley and

2110
01:58:37.359 --> 01:58:39.000
her maiden name was Dudley.

2111
01:58:39.479 --> 01:58:41.560
Wow. Perfect.

2112
01:58:42.000 --> 01:58:45.439
Yeah. One thing that should be mentioned was that Dudley

2113
01:58:45.479 --> 01:58:49.159
Town was never an actual town. It was more an

2114
01:58:49.279 --> 01:58:53.319
isolated part of Cornwall. The village rested in the middle

2115
01:58:53.399 --> 01:58:56.720
of three large hills, which accounts for the recollections of

2116
01:58:56.760 --> 01:59:00.279
it being nearby nearly dark at noontime.

2117
01:59:00.399 --> 01:59:01.000
Sorry.

2118
01:59:01.600 --> 01:59:04.680
The Cornwall township was never a good area for farming,

2119
01:59:05.039 --> 01:59:08.000
as is apparent by the rocks that were used to

2120
01:59:08.039 --> 01:59:11.600
build the foundations and stone walls that still stand today.

2121
01:59:11.920 --> 01:59:14.119
There you go, there's I'll find it for you. There's

2122
01:59:14.119 --> 01:59:17.239
a map of all the stone walls in Massachusetts. It's insane.

2123
01:59:17.479 --> 01:59:19.439
There's like thousands of miles of them.

2124
01:59:19.760 --> 01:59:22.840
Wow. I mean I've seen them before, not in Massachusetts,

2125
01:59:22.840 --> 01:59:25.840
but I've seen stone walls and the outside.

2126
01:59:26.279 --> 01:59:28.279
It's a lot of them, is what I'm saying. It's

2127
01:59:28.319 --> 01:59:32.319
the map that's impressive, not the walls themselves. Oh, you're mean.

2128
01:59:33.680 --> 01:59:35.439
I don't know why you're so mean today, but you're

2129
01:59:35.640 --> 01:59:40.479
very mean. In spite of this, though, settlers began to

2130
01:59:40.520 --> 01:59:44.439
trickle into the area. The Tanner family, the Joneses, the Patterson's,

2131
01:59:44.680 --> 01:59:47.439
the Dibbles, and the Porters all took up residence here.

2132
01:59:48.000 --> 01:59:51.359
The community grew even larger after iron ore was discovered

2133
01:59:51.399 --> 01:59:56.079
nearby and farming became a secondary concern. However, there were

2134
01:59:56.079 --> 02:00:02.039
never any stores, shops, schools, or churches in Dudley. No

2135
02:00:02.159 --> 02:00:04.520
wonder it's cursed, or.

2136
02:00:04.720 --> 02:00:07.920
No wonder it didn't last. Of nothing going on there.

2137
02:00:08.239 --> 02:00:13.199
Two things can be true. Provisions had to be purchased

2138
02:00:13.199 --> 02:00:16.000
in nearby towns, and when one dried up, a trip

2139
02:00:16.039 --> 02:00:19.520
to Cornwall was necessary. Because, in addition to there being

2140
02:00:19.600 --> 02:00:26.560
no church in town, there was no cemetery either. That

2141
02:00:26.560 --> 02:00:27.960
would have made it so much scarier if it was

2142
02:00:28.000 --> 02:00:31.199
like the only thing there was a cemetery that would

2143
02:00:31.199 --> 02:00:34.760
have creeped me out so bad. The population of Dudley

2144
02:00:34.800 --> 02:00:37.920
Town was never large, and according to a eighteen fifty

2145
02:00:37.920 --> 02:00:41.159
four map, the peak number of families who lived here

2146
02:00:41.520 --> 02:00:47.159
only reached twenty six. Wow, it's like but each family

2147
02:00:47.199 --> 02:00:48.560
had three million people.

2148
02:00:49.359 --> 02:00:51.720
So oh, yeah it was. It was still pretty small.

2149
02:00:51.760 --> 02:00:55.520
But you know, in spite of all these things, the

2150
02:00:55.560 --> 02:00:59.119
town did thrive for a time. Dudley Town was noted

2151
02:00:59.159 --> 02:01:01.720
for its timber, which was burned and used to make

2152
02:01:01.760 --> 02:01:05.560
wood coal for the nearby Lichfield County iron furnaces in Cornwall.

2153
02:01:05.840 --> 02:01:10.479
That's smart and other towns. The furnaces later moved closer

2154
02:01:10.520 --> 02:01:14.479
to the railroads and the more industrial towns and lumber

2155
02:01:14.600 --> 02:01:17.600
was no longer needed. Iron ore was used from the

2156
02:01:17.640 --> 02:01:20.720
area for a time. And there were three water powered

2157
02:01:20.760 --> 02:01:23.319
mills in Dudley Town as well. That's huge. Those were

2158
02:01:23.319 --> 02:01:26.119
really expensive back then. Mills were considered like one of

2159
02:01:26.159 --> 02:01:28.920
the biggest things you could build in industry, so that's impressive.

2160
02:01:31.439 --> 02:01:34.680
Most of the mills eventually closed because of the long

2161
02:01:34.880 --> 02:01:39.039
trip down the mountain to deliver their goods, and will

2162
02:01:39.079 --> 02:01:51.319
continue the fable of Dudley Town after this. As we

2163
02:01:51.359 --> 02:01:54.239
returned to dudley Town and I managed to not say

2164
02:01:54.319 --> 02:01:58.920
Dudleyville again. Yay. Despite the outward signs of prosperity, there

2165
02:01:58.960 --> 02:02:02.439
were strange deaths, some bizarre occurrences at dudley Town. From

2166
02:02:02.479 --> 02:02:06.560
the start, it's a town, but okay, well, but they

2167
02:02:06.640 --> 02:02:08.680
just explained it isn't really a town. Pay attention.

2168
02:02:08.800 --> 02:02:10.680
Gosh, all right, right, just thing.

2169
02:02:11.760 --> 02:02:15.039
Some historians have attempted to downplay the unusual events in

2170
02:02:15.119 --> 02:02:17.880
recent years. They will debunk the legends of the town

2171
02:02:17.920 --> 02:02:21.760
by first stating how few people there ever, there ever

2172
02:02:21.960 --> 02:02:25.439
were who lived here, and then will try and downplay

2173
02:02:25.479 --> 02:02:29.600
the disappearances, cases of insanity, and weird deaths as if

2174
02:02:29.640 --> 02:02:32.560
such things happen all the time. And perhaps they do.

2175
02:02:32.680 --> 02:02:35.680
But why so many unusual happenings in such an isolated

2176
02:02:35.720 --> 02:02:38.760
area with so few people living in it. The number

2177
02:02:38.760 --> 02:02:40.960
of deaths that have occurred here would not be such

2178
02:02:40.960 --> 02:02:43.199
a high number in a larger town, but in this

2179
02:02:43.319 --> 02:02:47.199
small community one can't help but wonder what exactly was

2180
02:02:47.279 --> 02:02:51.239
taking place. There were also, I believe, an inordinate amount

2181
02:02:51.279 --> 02:02:55.199
of people who went insane in this area, as well

2182
02:02:55.239 --> 02:02:58.239
as people who simply vanished. That are in addition to

2183
02:02:58.319 --> 02:03:01.760
those who are documented here. It's no wonder, bogus or

2184
02:03:01.800 --> 02:03:04.960
not that a story started about a Dudley Town curse.

2185
02:03:06.359 --> 02:03:08.439
Three of the Dudley's moved out of the region and

2186
02:03:08.520 --> 02:03:11.479
lived long in full lives, dying of natural causes and

2187
02:03:11.560 --> 02:03:16.159
forever diminishing any possibilities of a church curse. Only Abiel

2188
02:03:16.239 --> 02:03:20.000
Dudley remained in the town, and, after a series of reverses,

2189
02:03:20.119 --> 02:03:25.960
lost his entire fortune and his mind. Abiel died in

2190
02:03:26.079 --> 02:03:28.720
seventeen ninety nine at the age of ninety when he

2191
02:03:28.760 --> 02:03:31.000
was no longer able to pay his debts, and the

2192
02:03:31.039 --> 02:03:34.239
town took his property, sold it, and then made him

2193
02:03:34.239 --> 02:03:35.399
a ward of the town.

2194
02:03:35.840 --> 02:03:36.359
Oh shit.

2195
02:03:37.319 --> 02:03:41.079
Toward the end, Abriel was senile and insane and would

2196
02:03:41.079 --> 02:03:43.319
not be the last to suffer from this affliction.

2197
02:03:44.479 --> 02:03:49.119
It sounds like this was okay.

2198
02:03:49.159 --> 02:03:50.079
Oh you think it was fine.

2199
02:03:50.600 --> 02:03:52.680
Yeah, it was fine. No, I no, I just it's

2200
02:03:52.720 --> 02:03:56.520
like he was really old. T he was senile, Like

2201
02:03:57.000 --> 02:03:58.880
I don't know what to tell you, guys. That sounds

2202
02:03:58.960 --> 02:04:00.359
like things that happened.

2203
02:04:00.920 --> 02:04:05.279
In seventeen ninety two, seven years before Abiel Dudley passed away,

2204
02:04:05.640 --> 02:04:08.880
his good friend and neighbor Gershen Hollister, was killed while

2205
02:04:08.960 --> 02:04:12.239
building a barn at the home of William Tanner, Abeel's

2206
02:04:12.239 --> 02:04:15.640
closest neighbor. Tanner was also said to have gone insane,

2207
02:04:15.960 --> 02:04:19.239
although likely from old age and senility rather than from

2208
02:04:19.279 --> 02:04:22.880
supernatural influences. He lived to the age of one hundred

2209
02:04:22.920 --> 02:04:27.000
and four, and, according to records, was slightly demented at

2210
02:04:27.000 --> 02:04:30.079
the time of his death. Gosh, I hope that's in

2211
02:04:30.119 --> 02:04:33.279
my report too. There have been the demented partner one

2212
02:04:33.319 --> 02:04:37.279
hundred and four. There have been stories that have circulated

2213
02:04:37.560 --> 02:04:41.800
claiming that Tanner told other villagers of strange creatures that

2214
02:04:41.880 --> 02:04:46.079
came out of the woods at night. If this is true,

2215
02:04:46.199 --> 02:04:48.880
there's no way for us to know if these creatures

2216
02:04:49.119 --> 02:04:53.680
were products of the unexplained or products of Tanner's feeble mind.

2217
02:04:54.800 --> 02:04:56.960
Yeah, I mean he did say he was demented.

2218
02:04:58.439 --> 02:05:01.560
The Nathaniel Carter family moved to Dudley Town in seventeen

2219
02:05:01.640 --> 02:05:03.800
fifty nine and lived in a house once owned by

2220
02:05:03.840 --> 02:05:06.720
Abiel Dudley before he was made Award of the town.

2221
02:05:07.159 --> 02:05:10.720
A mysterious plague swept through Dudleytown and Cornwall and took

2222
02:05:10.760 --> 02:05:15.000
the lives of Adiamia wow add On Eram at an

2223
02:05:15.000 --> 02:05:19.880
Eram Carter the at an Carter family, relatives of Nathaniel,

2224
02:05:20.000 --> 02:05:23.119
and saddened by the loss, they moved to Binghamton, New York.

2225
02:05:23.560 --> 02:05:27.279
I like Binghamton. That's actually ket Town from Dudley Town.

2226
02:05:27.319 --> 02:05:30.000
In seventeen sixty three. Have you been to Binghamton. No.

2227
02:05:30.520 --> 02:05:32.239
I've driven through it four or five times, and I

2228
02:05:32.239 --> 02:05:33.439
stopped there once in eight lunch.

2229
02:05:33.760 --> 02:05:37.680
Oh yeah, my cousin went to college there.

2230
02:05:38.199 --> 02:05:41.119
Yeah. I've heard good things about Binghamton, and it always

2231
02:05:41.119 --> 02:05:46.640
seems to come up weird. Those who believe in the

2232
02:05:46.680 --> 02:05:49.920
curse say that the taint of Dudley Town followed after them,

2233
02:05:49.920 --> 02:05:53.399
but their tragic fate was actually far too common. During

2234
02:05:53.399 --> 02:05:56.319
the early days of the Frontier, the Carters moved to

2235
02:05:56.399 --> 02:05:59.840
the Delaware Wilderness, in the heart of Indian territory, and

2236
02:06:00.079 --> 02:06:03.920
during an attack, Indian slaughtered Nathaniel, his wife, and an

2237
02:06:03.920 --> 02:06:07.760
infant child. The Carter's other three children were abducted and

2238
02:06:07.800 --> 02:06:11.960
taken to Canada, where two daughters were ransomed. The son,

2239
02:06:12.119 --> 02:06:15.640
David Carter, remained with his captors, married an Indian girl,

2240
02:06:15.640 --> 02:06:18.239
and later returned to the United States for his education.

2241
02:06:18.880 --> 02:06:21.479
He went on to edit a newspaper and became a

2242
02:06:21.720 --> 02:06:23.199
Justice of the Supreme Court.

2243
02:06:23.520 --> 02:06:24.359
Oh my god.

2244
02:06:26.199 --> 02:06:31.239
Wow. Another bizarre tragedy affected one of the most famous

2245
02:06:31.279 --> 02:06:35.079
residents of the region, General Hermann Swift, who had served

2246
02:06:35.079 --> 02:06:39.000
in the Revolutionary War under George Washington. In eighteen oh four,

2247
02:06:39.079 --> 02:06:42.159
his wife, Sarah Fay, was struck by lightning while standing

2248
02:06:42.199 --> 02:06:46.039
on the front porch of their home near Dudleytown. She

2249
02:06:46.239 --> 02:06:52.079
was killed instantly. The general went insane and died soon after.

2250
02:06:52.800 --> 02:06:55.800
Many have dismissed this incident as not being connected to

2251
02:06:55.840 --> 02:06:59.119
the other unusual events, saying that Swift did not actually

2252
02:06:59.159 --> 02:07:02.680
live in Dudley Town, but on Bald Mountain Road, where

2253
02:07:02.720 --> 02:07:05.800
his house remains to this day, and that he only

2254
02:07:05.840 --> 02:07:09.680
went insane when he became old and senile, but in

2255
02:07:09.720 --> 02:07:13.720
an area this sparsely populated. The records indicated three people

2256
02:07:13.800 --> 02:07:16.479
have gone insane in the space of less than half

2257
02:07:16.560 --> 02:07:17.199
a century.

2258
02:07:18.359 --> 02:07:20.359
But it all made sense.

2259
02:07:21.840 --> 02:07:24.600
Maybe to you because you're so dark, geez.

2260
02:07:24.800 --> 02:07:26.960
I think people go insane all the time. I don't

2261
02:07:27.000 --> 02:07:28.119
know what they're talking about.

2262
02:07:28.319 --> 02:07:30.079
That sounds like, cope, you just want to excuse you

2263
02:07:30.600 --> 02:07:31.439
being insane?

2264
02:07:32.199 --> 02:07:34.199
No, I just want company.

2265
02:07:36.840 --> 02:07:40.119
Could this be a mere coincidence? And does a person

2266
02:07:40.199 --> 02:07:42.479
being struck by lightning while standing in their front porch

2267
02:07:42.600 --> 02:07:46.000
qualify as being unusual. I would say that it does,

2268
02:07:46.039 --> 02:07:50.920
and our story is not yet complete. Another famous personage

2269
02:07:50.960 --> 02:07:54.520
allegedly connected to Dudley Town was Horace Greeley. I feel

2270
02:07:54.560 --> 02:07:56.920
like I've heard that name, the editor and founder of

2271
02:07:56.960 --> 02:08:00.720
the New York Tribune. I have heard that name before. Interesting,

2272
02:08:01.399 --> 02:08:04.439
or so the stories of the curse go. In this case,

2273
02:08:04.479 --> 02:08:08.640
the story deserves to be debunked. Greeley married a young

2274
02:08:08.680 --> 02:08:11.600
woman named Mary Young Cheney, who the stories of the

2275
02:08:11.680 --> 02:08:15.560
curse say was born in Dudleytown. In truth, Mary was

2276
02:08:15.560 --> 02:08:18.600
born and raised in nearby Litchfield and never lived in

2277
02:08:18.640 --> 02:08:21.720
Dudley Town. She left the area as early as eighteen

2278
02:08:21.800 --> 02:08:24.680
thirty three and went to live in a vegetarian boarding

2279
02:08:24.720 --> 02:08:27.800
house that was owned by doctor Graham of Graham Cracker

2280
02:08:27.840 --> 02:08:33.359
Fame oh Man, and became involved in the popular wellness

2281
02:08:33.359 --> 02:08:36.399
movement of the time. While there, she met and later

2282
02:08:36.479 --> 02:08:39.920
married Horace Greeley. In eighteen seventy two, Greeley ran for

2283
02:08:40.000 --> 02:08:44.319
president against Ulysses S. Grant and lost the election. A

2284
02:08:44.359 --> 02:08:47.399
short time before it, Mary suffered from an attack of

2285
02:08:47.520 --> 02:08:51.880
lung disease and died. Her death occurred in New York

2286
02:08:51.880 --> 02:08:54.680
City with her husband and two daughters, Ida and Gabrielle.

2287
02:08:54.880 --> 02:09:00.159
Gabrielle in attendance. She was buried in Greenwood Cemetery and

2288
02:09:00.239 --> 02:09:03.359
claims that she committed suicide, but this was not the case.

2289
02:09:03.800 --> 02:09:07.439
Greeley himself died one month later, and the electoral votes

2290
02:09:07.479 --> 02:09:11.439
that he received in the election were distributed to minor candidates.

2291
02:09:12.000 --> 02:09:12.880
Lots nice of him.

2292
02:09:13.479 --> 02:09:14.720
Yeah.

2293
02:09:14.960 --> 02:09:17.720
After the Civil War, Dudley Town began to die, and

2294
02:09:17.800 --> 02:09:20.479
many of the villagers simply packed up and moved away.

2295
02:09:21.199 --> 02:09:24.479
The demise of the town itself is hardly surprising, whether

2296
02:09:24.520 --> 02:09:27.359
you believe in the so called curse or not. Its

2297
02:09:27.359 --> 02:09:31.840
geographical location was fulhardy at best, Surrounded by hills and

2298
02:09:31.880 --> 02:09:35.159
at elevations of more than one thousand, five hundred feet,

2299
02:09:35.680 --> 02:09:38.000
there was little chance that a good crop could ever

2300
02:09:38.119 --> 02:09:41.880
grow and sustain life in the village. The winters were

2301
02:09:41.920 --> 02:09:46.600
harsh here, and even the hardy apple trees were stunted

2302
02:09:46.640 --> 02:09:50.880
from months of cold. As mentioned already, the soil was

2303
02:09:50.960 --> 02:09:53.920
rocky and the area was plagued by almost too much water.

2304
02:09:54.600 --> 02:09:57.880
It pulled into tepid swamps and seeped into the earth,

2305
02:09:58.159 --> 02:10:02.640
creating damp morass. But even if you overlook the idea

2306
02:10:02.680 --> 02:10:05.359
of an actual curse and admit that the location of

2307
02:10:05.399 --> 02:10:09.239
the town must have had a hand in its own undoing,

2308
02:10:09.760 --> 02:10:13.079
the sheer number of unusual deaths leaving out Mary Greeley

2309
02:10:13.520 --> 02:10:16.520
and mental conditions in such an isolated area more than

2310
02:10:16.560 --> 02:10:19.760
suggests that something out of the ordinary was occurring in

2311
02:10:19.800 --> 02:10:22.760
the little town. And no matter how hard the debunkers

2312
02:10:22.840 --> 02:10:26.159
like Michelle tried to disregard the next mysterious event to

2313
02:10:26.199 --> 02:10:31.239
occur in Dudley Town, their efforts fall short. We're going

2314
02:10:31.319 --> 02:10:32.920
to take a break and then we'll talk about this

2315
02:10:33.439 --> 02:10:45.640
mysterious event that's baffling critics after this. Now we're going

2316
02:10:45.680 --> 02:10:49.880
to talk about the big event at Dudley Town. And

2317
02:10:49.920 --> 02:10:53.159
I hope it pays off big because I just want

2318
02:10:53.159 --> 02:10:54.880
to be really creeped out before we end the show.

2319
02:10:55.319 --> 02:10:57.079
Good, because it's better.

2320
02:10:58.279 --> 02:11:01.279
This event occurred in nineteen at a time when the

2321
02:11:01.319 --> 02:11:04.800
population of Dudley Town had dwindled away to almost nothing.

2322
02:11:05.840 --> 02:11:07.840
One of the last residents of the town was a

2323
02:11:07.880 --> 02:11:12.720
man named John Patrick Brophy. Tragedy visited swiftly and in

2324
02:11:12.800 --> 02:11:16.960
several blows. First, his wife died of consumption, which was

2325
02:11:16.960 --> 02:11:20.399
not uncommon in those days, and there was nothing strange

2326
02:11:20.399 --> 02:11:23.479
about her ill ailment, as she had been suffering from

2327
02:11:23.479 --> 02:11:27.560
it for years. This did not lessen Brophy's grief, however,

2328
02:11:28.479 --> 02:11:31.960
but he was soon stricken when his two children vanished

2329
02:11:32.279 --> 02:11:35.800
into the forest just a short time after the funeral.

2330
02:11:38.279 --> 02:11:41.880
And while their disappearance could have been voluntary, they had

2331
02:11:41.920 --> 02:11:46.359
been accused of stealing sleigh blankets, a minor offense. There's

2332
02:11:46.439 --> 02:11:50.760
nothing to indicate that it was. They vanished and were

2333
02:11:50.800 --> 02:11:57.760
never found. He killed them ouch Shortly after, the Brophy's

2334
02:11:57.840 --> 02:12:01.800
house burned to the ground in an unexplained fire, and

2335
02:12:01.840 --> 02:12:06.560
not long after Brophy himself vanished into the forest and

2336
02:12:06.680 --> 02:12:11.159
was never seen again. Why are you laughing? That's so sad.

2337
02:12:11.600 --> 02:12:15.239
He killed his kids and then he set the house

2338
02:12:15.279 --> 02:12:18.159
on fire to like, you know, make sure that they

2339
02:12:18.319 --> 02:12:20.600
no one found the evidence, and then he killed himself

2340
02:12:20.680 --> 02:12:21.039
in the farm.

2341
02:12:21.159 --> 02:12:23.439
You better hope the Brophies aren't listening, because they could

2342
02:12:23.439 --> 02:12:25.319
see you for libel and slander for that.

2343
02:12:25.600 --> 02:12:26.560
I don't think they can.

2344
02:12:27.640 --> 02:12:29.479
Well, I mean, you can sue for both because the

2345
02:12:29.479 --> 02:12:30.560
transcription exists.

2346
02:12:31.840 --> 02:12:32.479
Yeah.

2347
02:12:32.880 --> 02:12:36.520
By the early nineteen hundred's, Dudley Town was completely deserted,

2348
02:12:36.880 --> 02:12:39.800
the remaining homes began to fall into disrepair and ruin,

2349
02:12:39.920 --> 02:12:43.119
and soon the forest began to reclaim the village that

2350
02:12:43.159 --> 02:12:45.600
had been carved out of it. But there was still

2351
02:12:45.640 --> 02:12:48.880
one other death that proponents of the curse have connected

2352
02:12:48.880 --> 02:12:51.760
to Dudley Town, and while the curse may be unlikely,

2353
02:12:51.800 --> 02:12:54.840
it does mark one additional case of insanity for an

2354
02:12:54.840 --> 02:12:59.199
isolated region that was already riddled with them. Around nineteen hundred,

2355
02:12:59.199 --> 02:13:02.239
doctor William Clark came to Cornwall and fell in love

2356
02:13:02.279 --> 02:13:05.279
with the forest and quiet country life. Clark had been

2357
02:13:05.279 --> 02:13:07.640
born in eighteen seventy seven and grew up on a

2358
02:13:07.680 --> 02:13:13.239
farm in Tenafly, New Jersey. He later became a professor

2359
02:13:13.279 --> 02:13:17.000
of surgery and taught at Columbia College of Physicians and Surgeons,

2360
02:13:17.800 --> 02:13:20.279
as well as earning a reputation as the leading cancer

2361
02:13:20.319 --> 02:13:23.760
specialist in New York. He purchased one thousand acres of

2362
02:13:23.880 --> 02:13:27.560
land in the wilds of Connecticut, which included Dudley Town,

2363
02:13:28.319 --> 02:13:31.479
and began construction of a summer and vacation home there.

2364
02:13:32.359 --> 02:13:34.600
Over the next number of years, he and his wife,

2365
02:13:34.680 --> 02:13:37.920
Harriet Bank Clark, visited the house on weekends and during

2366
02:13:37.960 --> 02:13:43.119
the summer until it was completed. After that, it became

2367
02:13:43.159 --> 02:13:46.119
mostly a holiday house for short trips in the summer

2368
02:13:46.159 --> 02:13:49.960
and for Thanksgiving. Together, they maintained an idyllic second life

2369
02:13:50.000 --> 02:13:55.279
near Dudleytown until nineteen eighteen. One summer weekend, doctor Clark

2370
02:13:55.399 --> 02:13:58.039
was called away to New York on an emergency. His

2371
02:13:58.119 --> 02:14:02.920
wife stayed behind, and, according to the he returned thirty

2372
02:14:02.960 --> 02:14:07.600
six hours later to find she had gone insane, just

2373
02:14:07.680 --> 02:14:10.600
as a number of previous residents of the village had done.

2374
02:14:11.399 --> 02:14:15.000
The story claims that she told of bizarre creatures that

2375
02:14:15.079 --> 02:14:17.880
came out of the forest and attacked her. She committed

2376
02:14:17.920 --> 02:14:22.760
suicide soon after. What But how much truth is there

2377
02:14:22.880 --> 02:14:27.119
to this tale? Perhaps more than some like you would

2378
02:14:27.119 --> 02:14:31.279
like you to believe has been. It has been recorded

2379
02:14:31.279 --> 02:14:34.279
that for several years before her suicide, missus Clark suffered

2380
02:14:34.319 --> 02:14:38.000
from a quote, chronic illness. There's nothing to indicate what

2381
02:14:38.079 --> 02:14:40.359
this ailment might have been, or whether it was a

2382
02:14:40.359 --> 02:14:44.399
physical or mental one. I think that it's safe to say, though,

2383
02:14:44.800 --> 02:14:48.840
that mentally stable individuals do not ordinarily take their own lives.

2384
02:14:49.880 --> 02:14:52.800
That is safe to say they don't. As far as

2385
02:14:52.800 --> 02:14:55.840
whether or not she saw strange creatures in the woods, well,

2386
02:14:56.640 --> 02:14:59.600
well never really know for sure. But even if we

2387
02:14:59.640 --> 02:15:02.800
disreg guard this, we still have one more suicide that

2388
02:15:02.920 --> 02:15:07.039
occurred to a resident of the nearly nonexistent village of

2389
02:15:07.119 --> 02:15:11.079
Dudley Town. While undoubtedly shattered by his wife's suicide, doctor

2390
02:15:11.119 --> 02:15:14.760
Clark continued to maintain his house in Dudleytown and continued

2391
02:15:14.800 --> 02:15:18.039
to visit a number of years later, he remarried and

2392
02:15:18.079 --> 02:15:20.800
returned to stay at his summer house until a larger

2393
02:15:20.880 --> 02:15:25.239
home was completed nearby in nineteen thirty. In nineteen twenty four,

2394
02:15:25.279 --> 02:15:28.079
he and his wife Carida, as well as other doctors,

2395
02:15:28.119 --> 02:15:32.439
friends and interested landowners, formed the dark Entry Forest Association.

2396
02:15:33.239 --> 02:15:35.720
It was designed to act as a forest preserve so

2397
02:15:35.760 --> 02:15:41.000
that the land around Dudleytown would remain forever wild. They

2398
02:15:41.039 --> 02:15:44.000
held that They held their first meeting in nineteen twenty

2399
02:15:44.039 --> 02:15:48.399
six with forty one members. Doctor Clark died in Cornwall

2400
02:15:48.479 --> 02:15:52.119
Bridge in February of nineteen forty three, and Kreita passed

2401
02:15:52.119 --> 02:15:54.960
away five years later. A number of their children and

2402
02:15:55.039 --> 02:16:01.239
family members still reside in the area. Yeah, I guess

2403
02:16:01.439 --> 02:16:03.279
it sounds like you should want to live there. It

2404
02:16:03.319 --> 02:16:04.039
sounds like it'd be.

2405
02:16:04.039 --> 02:16:07.439
Cheap, And bet it's not cheap. It's New Hampshire.

2406
02:16:07.800 --> 02:16:08.680
It's Connecticut.

2407
02:16:09.000 --> 02:16:10.920
Oh I forgot it's Connecticut.

2408
02:16:12.479 --> 02:16:15.760
Today, Dudley Town is mostly deserted, except for the curiosity

2409
02:16:15.760 --> 02:16:19.199
seekers and tourists who come looking for thrills. The Dark

2410
02:16:19.239 --> 02:16:21.960
Forest Entry Association still owns most of the land the

2411
02:16:22.039 --> 02:16:24.600
village once stood on. There are a group of homes

2412
02:16:24.640 --> 02:16:28.159
on Bald Mountain Road that are very secluded from the

2413
02:16:28.199 --> 02:16:31.720
main roads, and they belong to the closest residents. These

2414
02:16:31.760 --> 02:16:35.360
locals maintain that nothing supernatural takes place in this region,

2415
02:16:35.760 --> 02:16:39.280
and perhaps they're right. It seems unlikely that the curse

2416
02:16:39.319 --> 02:16:42.879
on Dudley Town ever really existed. But on the other hand,

2417
02:16:43.280 --> 02:16:46.200
there is something strange about such a small area, with

2418
02:16:46.280 --> 02:16:51.399
so many disappearances, unusual deaths, suicides, and cases of insanity.

2419
02:16:52.040 --> 02:16:55.079
The stories of a curse had to have gotten started

2420
02:16:55.120 --> 02:16:59.639
for some reason, and perhaps this is why, as far

2421
02:16:59.719 --> 02:17:02.879
as we know, the ghostly tales began to surface in

2422
02:17:02.879 --> 02:17:06.120
the nineteen forties. It was at this time that visitors

2423
02:17:06.120 --> 02:17:08.120
to the ruins of the village began to speak of

2424
02:17:08.200 --> 02:17:12.680
strange incidents and wispy apparitions in the woods. Even today,

2425
02:17:12.760 --> 02:17:16.239
those who have visited the place boast of paranormal photographs,

2426
02:17:16.399 --> 02:17:20.840
overwhelming feelings of terror, mysterious lights, sights and sounds, and

2427
02:17:20.959 --> 02:17:25.760
even of being touched, pushed, and scratched by unseen hands.

2428
02:17:28.319 --> 02:17:29.559
You wouldn't like that, I don't think.

2429
02:17:30.280 --> 02:17:32.840
I don't like getting scratched by unseen hands. But all

2430
02:17:32.879 --> 02:17:33.799
the rest of that's fine.

2431
02:17:34.200 --> 02:17:38.719
Yes. Some researchers refer to the area as a negative

2432
02:17:38.799 --> 02:17:41.920
power spot, or a place where entities enter this world

2433
02:17:42.000 --> 02:17:45.319
from the other side. They say this may explain the

2434
02:17:45.319 --> 02:17:49.079
strange events of Dudley Town's history, like the eerie reports,

2435
02:17:49.120 --> 02:17:52.719
the strange creatures, and perhaps even the outbreaks of insanity

2436
02:17:52.760 --> 02:17:56.159
and madness. The place is often thought of as tainted

2437
02:17:56.200 --> 02:17:59.680
in some way, as if the ground somehow spoiled, or

2438
02:17:59.680 --> 02:18:06.280
perhaps apps was sour all along. Some historians and debunkers

2439
02:18:05.799 --> 02:18:09.879
dismiss such reports and theories and maintained that just because

2440
02:18:09.920 --> 02:18:13.239
the so called curse of Dudley Town doesn't exist, then

2441
02:18:13.280 --> 02:18:16.319
nothing strange has ever occurred here either. However, an open

2442
02:18:16.399 --> 02:18:18.680
minded look at some of the things that have happened

2443
02:18:18.719 --> 02:18:22.600
do seem to show that this is a strange place

2444
02:18:23.040 --> 02:18:26.040
and one that has been an enigma from the earliest

2445
02:18:26.120 --> 02:18:28.799
days of its history. Whether or not there is any

2446
02:18:28.840 --> 02:18:31.239
truth to the accounts or of people who have come

2447
02:18:31.280 --> 02:18:34.280
here since the days when the village was abandoned is

2448
02:18:34.360 --> 02:18:37.559
up to the reader to decide. I should warn you, though,

2449
02:18:39.120 --> 02:18:43.559
that trying to visit Dudleytown today can be hazardous, and

2450
02:18:43.639 --> 02:18:46.360
not because of ghosts. It should be noted that the

2451
02:18:46.399 --> 02:18:49.920
planners for the Dark Forest Entry Association have forbidden trespassing

2452
02:18:49.959 --> 02:18:52.840
on their property. In nineteen ninety nine, they announced that

2453
02:18:52.840 --> 02:18:56.159
they would no longer allow hikers on the land geez.

2454
02:18:56.840 --> 02:19:00.920
In spite of this, many still go now daring not

2455
02:19:00.959 --> 02:19:05.079
only the spirits, but the authorities as well. Unfortunately, the

2456
02:19:05.159 --> 02:19:08.639
ruins of Dudley Town have been vandalized in recent years,

2457
02:19:08.840 --> 02:19:11.639
and the constant streams of trespassers have had a negative

2458
02:19:11.639 --> 02:19:15.319
effect on the ecology of the area. Just as unfortunate

2459
02:19:15.399 --> 02:19:17.840
is the fact that the forbidden quality of Dudley Town

2460
02:19:18.239 --> 02:19:22.280
is what brings so many curiosity seekers to the vicinity. However,

2461
02:19:22.360 --> 02:19:26.639
this author advises readers to refrain from visiting this area

2462
02:19:27.040 --> 02:19:30.120
until methods can be devised to better preserve the wilderness here,

2463
02:19:30.600 --> 02:19:33.959
and until the unsettled corner of New England that where

2464
02:19:33.959 --> 02:19:37.360
this is located has been opened to the public again.

2465
02:19:39.239 --> 02:19:41.760
So Michelle seems completely nonplused about Dudley Town.

2466
02:19:42.520 --> 02:19:46.319
It's just a place. I mean, I feel like if

2467
02:19:46.319 --> 02:19:49.040
you were to challenge me and feel like, find a

2468
02:19:49.079 --> 02:19:51.280
place that has a lot of like just given me

2469
02:19:51.479 --> 02:19:54.559
like a town and been like, I could just tell

2470
02:19:54.600 --> 02:19:56.639
you all the like, I could just find lots of

2471
02:19:56.639 --> 02:19:59.600
weird deaths and people who went insane but didn't really

2472
02:19:59.639 --> 02:20:02.520
go insane, they just had like dementia or something. And

2473
02:20:02.559 --> 02:20:05.920
that woman who either was insane or saw something really

2474
02:20:05.959 --> 02:20:08.440
upsetting and then killed herself. I don't know.

2475
02:20:09.239 --> 02:20:13.319
No, you're not wrong. I'll give you that one. So well,

2476
02:20:13.399 --> 02:20:17.559
We're We've had a great time learning about mostly Australia apparently,

2477
02:20:17.920 --> 02:20:21.680
and monkeys and Dudley Town. So I appreciate it very much.

2478
02:20:21.959 --> 02:20:23.959
We're gonna take a quick break and wrap everything up

2479
02:20:24.000 --> 02:20:34.360
in a nice bow right after this. As we wrap

2480
02:20:34.479 --> 02:20:37.040
up this month's monthly Spooky, I want to mention I

2481
02:20:37.079 --> 02:20:40.079
saw three, count them, three horror films in the theater

2482
02:20:40.479 --> 02:20:43.879
this month. I saw Until Dawn, which was based on

2483
02:20:43.920 --> 02:20:46.120
the video game that I have been obsessed with for

2484
02:20:46.159 --> 02:20:49.959
a very long time. It was fun, it was barely

2485
02:20:50.000 --> 02:20:52.479
based on the video game. I don't know why they

2486
02:20:52.520 --> 02:20:55.079
went with that. It didn't copy the setting, it didn't

2487
02:20:55.120 --> 02:20:59.040
copy most of the character concepts. It was almost entirely different. Wow.

2488
02:20:59.239 --> 02:21:02.760
But it was fun. It had a time loop element

2489
02:21:02.799 --> 02:21:05.159
that I found kind of trite, to be honest, but

2490
02:21:05.239 --> 02:21:06.559
I did have a good time with it. It was a

2491
02:21:06.600 --> 02:21:10.120
fun teenagers getting killed in a house movie. Damn it.

2492
02:21:10.239 --> 02:21:12.840
I did have a good time. So let me have

2493
02:21:12.879 --> 02:21:14.879
a good time, Michelle, stop it please?

2494
02:21:14.959 --> 02:21:16.719
Okay, fine, fine.

2495
02:21:16.840 --> 02:21:21.280
Now, speaking of dead teenagers, I saw Clown in a Cornfield,

2496
02:21:21.319 --> 02:21:24.639
based on the novel of the same name. That was

2497
02:21:24.680 --> 02:21:28.280
a ton of fun, A pretty simple, somewhat low budget

2498
02:21:28.319 --> 02:21:31.760
slasher movie. It got a little too jokey for me

2499
02:21:31.879 --> 02:21:35.600
here and there. But I'm also really harsh on horror comedies,

2500
02:21:36.239 --> 02:21:40.040
so those parts I didn't love, but overall, really fun,

2501
02:21:40.159 --> 02:21:42.079
really creepy, and if it's still playing in a theater

2502
02:21:42.159 --> 02:21:45.159
near you, I highly recommend anybody go see it, because

2503
02:21:45.200 --> 02:21:51.079
horror in the theater simply hits different. And the final

2504
02:21:51.120 --> 02:21:53.360
horror film I've seen in the theater is actually taking

2505
02:21:53.399 --> 02:21:55.760
the nation by storm. It's number one at the box

2506
02:21:55.799 --> 02:22:01.040
office right now, and it's final destination Bloodlines. Oh yeah,

2507
02:22:01.079 --> 02:22:04.200
it's kicking ass and taking names. I loved it. It

2508
02:22:04.280 --> 02:22:07.559
was super fun. The opening Crazy Premonition, because every one

2509
02:22:07.559 --> 02:22:10.040
of those films has a crazy premonition, was one of

2510
02:22:10.040 --> 02:22:13.680
the best of the series. It was really fun, really gross,

2511
02:22:13.719 --> 02:22:16.319
really gory. I enjoyed the hell out of it. Michelle,

2512
02:22:16.319 --> 02:22:18.120
have you seen any of the Final Destination movies?

2513
02:22:18.319 --> 02:22:19.280
I saw the first one?

2514
02:22:20.280 --> 02:22:22.440
How did you Do with your Anxiety? Because I love

2515
02:22:22.479 --> 02:22:23.879
the part about that movie I love is when people

2516
02:22:23.879 --> 02:22:25.120
are just walking and they just look at all the

2517
02:22:25.159 --> 02:22:27.520
things that could kill them around them, Like I was

2518
02:22:27.520 --> 02:22:29.000
just like, yep, this is just life.

2519
02:22:29.319 --> 02:22:32.280
I mean it, honestly, it was so long ago. I

2520
02:22:32.319 --> 02:22:35.559
don't really remember how I don't get sorry.

2521
02:22:35.680 --> 02:22:38.319
It's it's literally though, like people are, especially once they

2522
02:22:38.360 --> 02:22:39.959
find out death is after them. They're just like walking

2523
02:22:39.959 --> 02:22:42.440
there look at like they'll just look at like a

2524
02:22:42.559 --> 02:22:44.719
power line and be like that's kind of loose, and

2525
02:22:44.719 --> 02:22:46.479
they'll look over me like there's a knife on that table.

2526
02:22:46.559 --> 02:22:51.040
Like it's just like an absolute paranoia of horrible accidents.

2527
02:22:51.159 --> 02:22:53.959
So it is a pretty great way to like introduce

2528
02:22:54.040 --> 02:22:58.479
your children to having chronic anxiety. MM. So I do

2529
02:22:58.559 --> 02:22:59.920
think that's that's important.

2530
02:23:00.159 --> 02:23:01.600
So it's important.

2531
02:23:01.879 --> 02:23:03.719
You should watch a couple of those. You would actually

2532
02:23:03.719 --> 02:23:07.000
probably get a kick out of them. They're pretty wild. Yeah.

2533
02:23:07.040 --> 02:23:09.920
All of the other Final Destination movies are currently on Max,

2534
02:23:09.959 --> 02:23:15.120
which will soon be HBO Max again. So honestly, people

2535
02:23:15.120 --> 02:23:16.639
were like making fun of it. I'm like, hey, they

2536
02:23:16.760 --> 02:23:19.559
just admitting they were wrong. Yeah yeah, yeah, Like good

2537
02:23:19.559 --> 02:23:21.360
for them, Like better than just trying to own it.

2538
02:23:21.479 --> 02:23:23.280
Now what they need to do is change their damn

2539
02:23:23.799 --> 02:23:27.879
app logo because it's They changed it from blue with

2540
02:23:27.959 --> 02:23:29.879
Max written on it to black with Max written on it,

2541
02:23:29.879 --> 02:23:31.559
and now it looks like all of my other apps.

2542
02:23:31.760 --> 02:23:34.000
I'm always like, where's the Max app? I can't find

2543
02:23:34.719 --> 02:23:37.000
because it looks just like Plex. It looks just like

2544
02:23:37.879 --> 02:23:38.680
a bunch of them.

2545
02:23:38.799 --> 02:23:39.360
M hm.

2546
02:23:39.360 --> 02:23:43.159
So anyway, but no Final Destination. Bloodlines was amazing. It

2547
02:23:43.239 --> 02:23:45.319
was the last film of the late great Tony Todd,

2548
02:23:45.440 --> 02:23:48.879
and his character in it kind of plays up the

2549
02:23:48.879 --> 02:23:51.120
idea he's dying. He was very very ill at the

2550
02:23:51.159 --> 02:23:53.319
time they were making it, and it's a wonderful send

2551
02:23:53.319 --> 02:23:58.000
off for him. So I really enjoyed that. And unless

2552
02:23:58.000 --> 02:24:00.000
you want to try to get out a Reddit story,

2553
02:24:00.000 --> 02:24:01.680
I figured we just wrap up the show for tonight.

2554
02:24:01.799 --> 02:24:04.239
Oh no, we're good. My Reddit stories are kind of

2555
02:24:04.239 --> 02:24:06.639
contrived this yeah, okay, okay.

2556
02:24:06.399 --> 02:24:08.319
Well, well we ran a little long, so I'm gonna

2557
02:24:08.360 --> 02:24:10.239
let Michelle go pick up her car. But I want

2558
02:24:10.239 --> 02:24:13.440
to thank everybody for listening to Monthly Spooky and joining us.

2559
02:24:13.479 --> 02:24:15.520
I really do appreciate it. Big thank you to Michelle

2560
02:24:15.520 --> 02:24:18.159
for sitting here and listening to me talk about Dudley

2561
02:24:18.200 --> 02:24:22.159
Town and being polite to me the whole time. But

2562
02:24:22.239 --> 02:24:24.440
I do appreciate you guys joining us every single month.

2563
02:24:24.520 --> 02:24:27.200
I love the comments we get about how much they

2564
02:24:27.319 --> 02:24:30.239
enjoy kind of the difference that this show gives to

2565
02:24:30.319 --> 02:24:33.040
the feed by having a little fun talk show. I

2566
02:24:33.120 --> 02:24:35.040
enjoy the hell out of doing the show. I enjoy

2567
02:24:35.079 --> 02:24:36.840
doing the doing the show almost that I enjoyed the

2568
02:24:36.840 --> 02:24:39.559
hell out of it doing the show with Michelle almost

2569
02:24:39.559 --> 02:24:40.360
said it in a weird way.

2570
02:24:40.799 --> 02:24:41.319
That's okay.

2571
02:24:41.479 --> 02:24:45.159
I'm also getting tired and hungry. I'm ready to take

2572
02:24:45.200 --> 02:24:48.680
a break. I'm still fighting an ear infection, So everybody,

2573
02:24:48.680 --> 02:24:51.479
thank you so much for tuning in. For ourselves. For

2574
02:24:51.600 --> 02:24:55.360
our executive producers, Dan Waller, executive producers Mark Shields, Robfields,

2575
02:24:55.360 --> 02:24:58.159
and Babbletopia dot Com our producer Dan Wilder and our

2576
02:24:58.200 --> 02:25:01.559
composer Ray Mattis. We will be back next month. Michelle,

2577
02:25:01.719 --> 02:25:02.799
you have the final word

2578
02:25:05.000 --> 02:25:07.639
Oh, safe mushroms or something