Dec. 10, 2024

Cutting Deep Into Horror | The Killing of a Sacred Deer (2017)

Cutting Deep Into Horror | The Killing of a Sacred Deer (2017)
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Cutting Deep Into Horror

In this episode of *Cutting Deep Into Horror*, hosts Henrique Couto and Rachael Rodolfi dive into the harrowing landscape of Yorgos Lanthimos’ *The Killing of a Sacred Deer*, a film that embodies the depths of trauma and moral complexity. Join us as we engage in a profound discussion on parental responsibility, guilt, and the chilling consequences of choices made in the dark corners of our minds.

As we unpack the film's narrative, Henrique and Rachael examine the nuances of familial bonds challenged by the haunting specter of a boy seeking revenge for his father's death. The podcast begins with a heartfelt conversation about family gatherings, setting a stark contrast for the dark themes to follow. Henrique and Rachael explore their emotional connections to the film while highlighting key moments that illustrate the struggles between love and moral dilemmas.

The episode allows listeners to traverse the unsettling journey of Stephen (Colin Farrell), a heart surgeon whose seemingly perfect life begins to unravel as he's confronted with the consequences of his past actions. From the eerie presentation of family dynamics to the deeply unsettling interactions with Martin (Barry Keoghan), the hosts analyze how fear and trauma manifest in frightening yet relatable ways. Their observations are punctuated with humor, insightful commentary, and frank discussions about the nature of horror and personal responsibility.

As Stephen grapples with Martin's demands for retribution, the difficult choices he faces culminate in a shocking climax that forces the audience to confront their own beliefs about justice and sacrifice. The unique storytelling style, mixing dark humor with visceral horror, is a focal point of discussion, as Henrique and Rachael reflect on the movie's impact and the moral quandaries it presents.

In later segments, the conversation delves into the critical moments leading to the film's unsettling conclusion, exploring themes of existential dread and the fleeting nature of life. They touch on the symbolism of isolation and the haunting reality of familial love overshadowed by the specter of loss. With compelling insights, they guide listeners through a narrative that resonates with the intuitively unsettling nature of guilt and choice.

Ultimately, the episode poses crucial questions that challenge listeners to reflect on their values and the complexities of human relationships. As the discussion draws to a close, listeners are left to ponder whether the price of revenge is ever worth the cost of losing one’s humanity.

**Join the Conversation**
If you're interested in sharing your thoughts on this chilling episode or the themes explored in *The Killing of a Sacred Deer*, we want to hear from you! Connect with us on social media:

- **Twitter:** twitter.com/WeeklySpooky
- **Facebook:** facebook.com/WeeklySpooky
- **Email:** WeeklySpooky@gmail.com

Do you have recommendations for future episodes? Let us know your favorite horror films or your takes on the emotional and psychological undercurrents in horror cinema. We can't wait for you to join us again for our next deep cut into the world of horror film!

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Music by Ray Mattis http://raymattispresents.bandcamp.com

Executive Producers
Rob Fields
Mark Shields
Bobbletopia.com

Produced by Daniel Wilder

This episode is sponsored by 
HenFlix.com

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🎵 Music by Ray Mattis 👉 Check out Ray’s incredible work here !
👨‍💼 Executive Producers: Rob Fields, Bobbletopia.com
🎥 Produced by: Daniel Wilder
🌐 Explore more terrifying tales at: WeeklySpooky.com
WEBVTT

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I love a good family gathering.

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You know, that's always nice to be around family.

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Yeah, I'm glad you could join us, Rachel. We have

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all kinds of cool stuff planned. We're gonna open gifts,

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of course, because you know it's festive. Yeah, and uh,

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we're just we really believe in giving of ourselves whenever possible. Yeah. Yeah.

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And also, you know, one thing that is a gift

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is the gift of choice. It's always important to have

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the ability to choose things. So I know you met

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Aunt Margaret, Uncle Tom. Yeah, Tom, little Robbie, little Tina,

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little Sylvester. I don't he's he's a little funny, but

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he's so Which one dies? Which one dies? Is this?

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That's a very heavy question.

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I don't understand how that could be complicated, like dies.

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How your hands are shaking and I'm you're not going

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to be able to hold the rifle. This is very disappointing.

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I think you've ruined Christmas.

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This podcast is about why horror scares us, what deep, dark,

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secret scary cinema shines a light on. The discussions are

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frank and involve conversations about abuse, trauma, and mental health.

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There are also spoilers, so keep that in mind too.

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Now sharpen your machetes and strap raisers, because this is

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cutting deep into horror.

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Welcome back, my friends, to cutting deep into horror. I am,

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of course, your host, Enrique Kuto, here with my good buddy,

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my co host, my friend of the Fucked Up cinema,

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Rachel RODOLPHI Rachel, how are you?

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I'm doing quite all right?

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You say better than the family in this movie?

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Absolutely, I mean there's low and then there's this, and

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then there's this.

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Yes, so we November ended up being a crazy time.

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Originally we were going to cover this for Thanksgiving because

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you have a truly heinous sense of humor. This is

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your pick, yea. Often we do films I pick, but

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every now and then there's a Rachel pick, and this

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one is definitely a Rachel pick. We are covering twenty

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and seventeen's Killing of a Sacred Deer. The Killing of

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a Sacred Deer, And I want to mention if you

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are listening to this and haven't seen it yet, it

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is streaming on Max with your membership, So if you're

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a Max subscriber, you could pause and watch it right now.

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Maybe make sure it's been a little bit since you've

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eaten and maybe you know, make sure you're in a

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relatively good mood. But it is available on Max, and

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of course you'd rent it anyway that you rent movies.

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We are going to be diving deep. That is why

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deep is in the title. We will be spoiling things.

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That is the way it is.

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We like the spoilers around here.

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Well, we're here to talk about more than just the

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the coding of the film.

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We're here below the surface.

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We want to go. We're cutting deep. So that's where

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the title came from. But yeah, so we're going to

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talk all about the killing of a sacred deer, and

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then we're going to be back just before Christmas with

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a little holiday themed or to share because last year,

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one of my favorite episodes we've ever done was when

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we cut deep into Silent Night Deadly. Oh.

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That was so much fun.

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That was a really fun conversation and one of my

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favorite movies of all time.

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Having that conversation with you quickly made that movie even

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more special to me. Like now I'm like, that might

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be one of my favorite holiday movies.

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I don't know, it's one of my favorite movie movies.

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The more I dig into it the more I love

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it so absolutely. But today we're talking about the killer

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of Killing of a Sacred Deer from twenty seventeen, directed

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by Yorgos Latin Most, a director who has made a

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pretty big splash with his bizarre and fascinating films. My

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favorite of his is The Lobster from I think it

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was twenty twelve, but he also did Poor Things Recently

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and Kinds of Kindness. He also directed Dog Tooth, which

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I saw when it first came out, and I remembered

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thinking it was pretty pretty wild and good. He is Greek.

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I don't know how you feel about that.

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You know, we have to forgive people for their.

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Flaws, Italians and Greeks. Yeah, and he also did My

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Best Friend, which I have not seen that one yet,

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but yeah, so's he's a great director. But the thing

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that shocked you when we were talking about it about

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Killing of a Sacred Deer and Yorgos was I had

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not seen any of his other films.

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No, I have not.

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You had no idea that this is the only thriller,

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the only movie I could you could even loosely call

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horror he's done. Yeah, I bet you thought that this

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was like his bread and butter.

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Oh, I absolutely, because the tension is so thick and

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so well crafted. And I think that because uh, I

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think the thing that I liked is the rules that

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he did break versus how he broke certain rules of

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just horror and thriller filmmaking. I found that very fascinating

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that that was the only thriller he'd made, because I

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thought like, oh, well, this is somebody who's been doing

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it so long they know absolutely when to just go

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off the rails or to finally grab you by the throat.

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Yeah. And his his repertoire is considered black humor is

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considered to be kind of what he's a champion of.

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In my opinion, his films are what I would call

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their avant garde, but in a like aware way, yes,

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like as opposed to an avant garde film, a film

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that's very artistic and very impressionistic, not afraid to not

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to ignore a narrative. He's much more fully aware of

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how to tell a narrative, how important a narrative is,

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and then he likes to go beyond that in ways

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that I think are very accessible. Absolutely, that's my point

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is he can make a movie that is deeply absurd,

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but that I think most people could also appreciate. Yeah,

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and that's a hard hard line to walk. He didn't

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do it quite as much with Poor Things, which is

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probably my least favorite of his movies, but it's still

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a pretty good movie. It was just a little too long,

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especially for being so out there and impressionistic. At times,

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I found it it started to make the story feel threadbare,

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But I would not describe the killing of a sacred

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deer as threadbare in any way. No, what caused you

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to because you, like I said, you saw this first year,

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the one who's like, I really want to do that

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on the show.

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Well, we saw a trailer for it in twenty seventeen

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before it came out, and just the tone of the trailer,

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I was like, Oh, that looks like something I could

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be into. Yeah, And then it was actually one of

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the movies that at the start of Quarantine in twenty twenty,

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when it could still be kind of fun because it

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had only been like, you know, four weeks. Yeah, I

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was trying to, like every single night because I was

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working door Dash a lot, and like every single night

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I would try to find a new movie that i'd

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been putting off and just treat myself to that movie.

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Yeah, well, you were in the realm, the line of

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work that many of our listeners are in, where during

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the pandemic you worked way more absolutely stead of less.

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And there's a very you know, heavy split in our

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society over who got to work way more versus who

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had to work way less. Absolutely, And because we're a podcast,

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a lot of people who listen are people who have

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the kinds of jobs that were deemed essential. Food delivery,

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medical care, hotels, things like that.

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Mm hmm mit. So you one in the side one

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and the same, we're all we're all part of that.

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So yeah, So at the start of Quarantine, I finally

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sat down to watch it. And the first night I

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went to watch it, I was really tired, and I

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kept thinking like, man, I want to get into this,

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but I can tell like I have to pay attention.

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So the next night I was like, as my treat

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to myself, I let myself get off work like a

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half an hour earlier so I could have that much

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much extra time to watch it. And when I was

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finally able to watch it and pay attention, I was like, man, everything,

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every single shot tells a story, and the tension is

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so expertly built because it starts out as just awkwardness.

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The movie starts out just everything is.

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Awkward, and that's his style. Sincerely, you're going to notice

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that because we're gonna you and I are gonna just

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we're going to watch a bunch of them soon.

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I'm excited for that.

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If the way he depicts people is relatively consistent in

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all of his work.

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And and yeah, everybody seems to have a touch of

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the tism.

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Yeah, they're so direct in every way they speak, even

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when especially when it's topics that are generally high emotion

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or people just say those without flint chick. Yeah, in

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his work, that's very common with his stuff.

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So so yeah, that's that. I instantly like fell in

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love with it just just for the cinematography alone, but

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then the story and you know, all of it. And

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I kept telling you after I watched it, I was like,

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we've got to sit down and watch this together sometime,

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because you'd seen some of his other movies but not

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this one. And I was like, I think you would

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really get into this because there is so much to it.

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And so finally, you know, it took a few years

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but then he had a couple of years, the list

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of movie we need to watch together.

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It only gets larger, that's the problem.

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Yes, that is true. So well, we're going to dive

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into the more specifics of killing of a Sacred Deer

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right after this quick break, and we are back talking

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about the killing of a sacred deer. And yeah, when

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I first saw the trailer, it looked good. It looked scary,

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it looked tense, but it also kind of just looked

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like an artsy home invasion movie the way that the

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marketing was And that's not what this film is at all, really,

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not even a little bit.

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Actually, well, in a way, and we'll get into it,

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in a way, the home was invaded, Okay.

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I'll give you that. Yeah, I was kind of expecting

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more of like in the tradition of funny game, you know,

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kind of like this creepy kid is in their house

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and he's messing with them. Was the sense that I

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had gotten initially. But it's it's far more complex than that.

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I get why the trailers simplified it so much, because

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you cannot get across all the stuff, or even half

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the stuff that happens in this movie. In a trailer.

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I mean, most movies you can't get across everything, so

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you have to really pick. Like the two thoughts you

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have when you're making a movie trailer are what can

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I get across in a short amount of time in

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this film? And then of those things, what is the

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thing that appeals most to the target audience of said movie. Yes,

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so they leaned into like the tense horror audience, which

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I think is wise. And I'm actually curious how it

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did in the box office. Let's find out real quick. Fine,

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so it came out. It was a theatrical release. I

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don't think it was a Actually it was a wide release. Yeah,

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so it did ten million dollars at the box office.

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00:11:57.840 --> 00:12:02.000
The budget information has not been published, which if I'm

214
00:12:02.039 --> 00:12:05.960
speaking as an industry insider, would mean that it's a flop. Generally,

215
00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:11.240
they don't release budgetary info if they know that the

216
00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:13.559
box office isn't going to be very good. That's another

217
00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:17.799
weird thing about Yorgos Lentemos's movies. Most of them flop,

218
00:12:18.519 --> 00:12:23.960
but they he keeps making really expensive movies. Celebrity actors

219
00:12:24.279 --> 00:12:28.399
love to be within his movies. Four Things stars Mark

220
00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:33.480
Ruffalo and Emma Stone and like it's like, yeah, major

221
00:12:33.519 --> 00:12:37.120
actors love it. Kinds of Kindness has like basically every

222
00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:40.600
celebrity that exists right now, And I mean it's got

223
00:12:40.840 --> 00:12:44.279
Willem Dafoe and I want to look up the actual

224
00:12:44.759 --> 00:12:48.039
list of people in Kinds of Kindness. But like it's

225
00:12:48.360 --> 00:12:49.960
which I haven't seen, but I've heard it's good.

226
00:12:50.759 --> 00:12:52.039
Well, I'm sure we'll be saying it.

227
00:12:52.360 --> 00:12:54.320
Well, it's on Hulu, so I do want to check

228
00:12:54.320 --> 00:12:58.240
it out. But like Margaret Qually, Emma Stone, Jesse Plemons,

229
00:12:58.320 --> 00:13:04.759
Hunter Schaeffer, Joe, Willem Dafoe. Yeah, it's like like the

230
00:13:04.799 --> 00:13:06.600
list goes on. Yeah, like if you were in a

231
00:13:06.639 --> 00:13:08.480
major TV series that was a hit in the last

232
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five years, you wanted to be in a Yorgos Lanthemos movie.

233
00:13:12.840 --> 00:13:16.240
So it wasn't a huge hit theatrically, I'm not surprised

234
00:13:16.279 --> 00:13:19.039
because it is a very cerebral, hard to market movie.

235
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Like basically all of Yorgos's movies are to some extent.

236
00:13:23.840 --> 00:13:25.559
I feel like with Poor Things, which may have been

237
00:13:25.600 --> 00:13:28.519
his biggest hit, basically they just kind of went it's

238
00:13:28.519 --> 00:13:31.120
this really wacky, quirky movie. Emma Stone is Naked, Emma

239
00:13:31.159 --> 00:13:34.919
Stone is naked just so you know it and not

240
00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:39.039
like once and she's never been naked before really in

241
00:13:39.080 --> 00:13:41.320
a movie. And then I think that got people to.

242
00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:43.879
Come, okay, good, that would get that would get butts

243
00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:44.320
in the chair.

244
00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:46.559
I think it more so made people curious. I don't

245
00:13:46.559 --> 00:13:48.320
even think people were like, oh, yeah, go see I'm

246
00:13:48.360 --> 00:13:50.360
a stone in this movie. I think they were just like,

247
00:13:51.120 --> 00:13:55.039
she's naked a bunch of it and it's a weird. Okay,

248
00:13:56.600 --> 00:13:58.919
I'll go see it. Yeah. I mean I literally saw

249
00:13:58.919 --> 00:14:00.679
it because I was I saw it on a Wednesday

250
00:14:00.720 --> 00:14:03.120
night when I had nothing else to do. I was like,

251
00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:04.879
I'm gonna go to the movies. I'm gonna see I'm

252
00:14:04.879 --> 00:14:08.159
a so naked. I guess hell yeah. But anyway, so

253
00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:11.200
killing of a sacred the killing of a sacred deer.

254
00:14:11.919 --> 00:14:14.320
I think that the is actually really important in the title,

255
00:14:15.039 --> 00:14:19.759
so I keep correcting myself. Where do we start with

256
00:14:19.840 --> 00:14:26.559
this incredibly dense, absurdist family horror.

257
00:14:27.200 --> 00:14:32.679
I don't know. I mean, obviously the opening is important

258
00:14:32.720 --> 00:14:34.879
because it starts on a heart surgery.

259
00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:39.519
Yeah, we get a very uncomfortably long view of a

260
00:14:39.799 --> 00:14:44.639
real beating heart or or some kind. I'm pretty sure

261
00:14:44.639 --> 00:14:47.480
it was a legitimate. I think it looked like yeah,

262
00:14:47.600 --> 00:14:50.600
because it's very uncomfortable to watch it, and we reveal

263
00:14:50.679 --> 00:14:54.480
that our main character, played by I just I just

264
00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:57.519
got his name back it, Colin Farrell, is a heart

265
00:14:57.559 --> 00:15:02.639
surgeon and cardiologist, and that is really important to the

266
00:15:02.639 --> 00:15:06.559
plot of the film in multiple ways. Yeah, and that

267
00:15:06.720 --> 00:15:08.919
opening alone, I mean, the first shot of the whole

268
00:15:08.919 --> 00:15:10.960
movie makes you squirm and they stay on it for

269
00:15:12.480 --> 00:15:15.120
you know, my human brain wants to say like two minutes,

270
00:15:15.159 --> 00:15:17.080
but in reality it's probably forty five seconds, which is

271
00:15:17.120 --> 00:15:17.840
a really.

272
00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:20.519
Really long time to watch a heart just well.

273
00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:23.600
When you edit films, you realize that, like a shot

274
00:15:23.600 --> 00:15:27.200
being forty five seconds is an eternity. Yeah, you know,

275
00:15:27.240 --> 00:15:29.519
because when people say, because I hate that, when people go,

276
00:15:29.559 --> 00:15:31.480
you know, they are on the shot for like five minutes,

277
00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:32.320
I'm like, no.

278
00:15:32.200 --> 00:15:34.519
They're not five minutes a very long time.

279
00:15:34.600 --> 00:15:37.320
I know it is so long no one would finish it,

280
00:15:37.679 --> 00:15:40.360
but forty five seconds feels very long, especially when it's

281
00:15:40.399 --> 00:15:42.919
something you don't necessarily want to look at. Yeah, but

282
00:15:43.000 --> 00:15:45.480
it's all there is on the screen, and it really

283
00:15:45.519 --> 00:15:48.679
does set the tone in multiple ways for what you're

284
00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:49.360
about to see.

285
00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:58.799
Absolutely, So then we're introduced to Stephen, and this the

286
00:15:59.240 --> 00:16:02.519
tone of this movie. Uh, they do such a great

287
00:16:02.600 --> 00:16:07.639
job of setting the tone and setting up how different

288
00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:10.759
but the same it is going to be from every other,

289
00:16:11.399 --> 00:16:14.080
you know, horror thriller kind of movie that you've seen.

290
00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:19.840
Because as Martin or not Martin, as Stephen and his

291
00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:24.519
anesthetiologist Matthew are walking down the hall, it's a very

292
00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:28.240
it's shot from way below them, and we're just we're

293
00:16:28.279 --> 00:16:31.039
not falling behind them, we're in front of them, watching

294
00:16:31.080 --> 00:16:33.240
them walk down the hall and they're just having this

295
00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:38.600
really weird, deadpan conversation about watches well.

296
00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:42.039
And what makes it even weirder, I think is the

297
00:16:42.039 --> 00:16:46.480
fact that they just completed open heart surgery. Because to us,

298
00:16:47.799 --> 00:16:50.679
open heart surgery is a big deal. It's the kind

299
00:16:50.679 --> 00:16:55.440
of thing that maybe affects you directly once or twice

300
00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:57.440
in your life, and not even from having it yourself,

301
00:16:57.759 --> 00:17:01.279
but just friends, close family member or friend may have it,

302
00:17:01.399 --> 00:17:05.920
or you may have it. But to them, it's it's Wednesday, yeah,

303
00:17:05.960 --> 00:17:09.039
you know, And that kind of sets the tone, but

304
00:17:09.079 --> 00:17:10.680
it also kind of sets the tone of like they

305
00:17:10.720 --> 00:17:14.559
have a friendship that's beyond work, but it is just

306
00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:17.720
Wednesday morning. You know, they finished the thing they had

307
00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:22.720
to do in the office about how his anesthesiologist has

308
00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:25.519
a very fancy watch, and Colin Ferrell has a watch

309
00:17:25.559 --> 00:17:27.920
he likes, but it's like nine years old and he's

310
00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:31.160
curious about his, and I love that. The deciding factor that, oh,

311
00:17:31.160 --> 00:17:33.160
your watch is much nicer than mine is that it's

312
00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:37.160
rated for two hundred meters of water of depth and

313
00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:38.680
his is only one hundred meters.

314
00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:40.000
And he's really into that.

315
00:17:40.119 --> 00:17:42.319
Yeah, yeah, I don't think either of them is ever

316
00:17:42.359 --> 00:17:45.440
in the water ever. I love that, I really do.

317
00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:48.039
But it's you know, it's an objector it's a very

318
00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:49.839
objective number where it's like, well that.

319
00:17:50.079 --> 00:17:52.839
It's yeah, it's twice as much, you know, and I've

320
00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:54.319
been bored with mine for a while now.

321
00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:59.599
And it's also it's also interesting because that sets the

322
00:17:59.640 --> 00:18:05.240
tone of everything that is either mentioned on screen or

323
00:18:05.319 --> 00:18:08.480
shown on screen in some way is going to come

324
00:18:08.519 --> 00:18:13.359
back somewhere in the story. Because as soon as they

325
00:18:13.400 --> 00:18:17.079
get done talking about their watches, now we're at a

326
00:18:17.119 --> 00:18:21.599
diner and Stephen there is there eating something, and then

327
00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:25.400
this young man comes in, he's probably about fifteen, sixteen,

328
00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:28.599
seventeen years old, comes in sits down in the booth

329
00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:32.279
with him. They start talking and Steven admits like, hey,

330
00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:34.839
I got you a gift and it's a new watch.

331
00:18:35.119 --> 00:18:39.839
So it tied directly into this scene. And while we

332
00:18:40.039 --> 00:18:46.880
aren't spoon fed exactly what their relationship is, Steven's definitely

333
00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:51.079
trying to be a mentor figure for this kid. But

334
00:18:51.160 --> 00:18:54.000
it's not his son, it's not anyone he's related to.

335
00:18:54.079 --> 00:18:56.640
It's just they somehow do know each other.

336
00:18:56.880 --> 00:19:00.680
No, it's incredibly a fatherly interaction. First question was is

337
00:19:00.680 --> 00:19:03.960
that a son? Yeah, because that's he's played by Martin

338
00:19:04.039 --> 00:19:06.559
is played by Barry Keegan, I believe is how you

339
00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:10.079
say it, it's spelled Kyogan. But he's an Irish actor

340
00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:14.799
and he is, in my opinion, the least trustworthy face

341
00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:20.880
in cinema right now. Anytime he plays a character, you're like, uh, oh,

342
00:19:20.920 --> 00:19:24.240
he's going to be bad news for everybody. He's a

343
00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:26.480
great actor. Oh yeah, but he really does have a

344
00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:30.160
face that, like I simply would never trust ever. Although

345
00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:32.960
in Dunkirk actually I thought he was kind of I

346
00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:37.599
thought they actually made him pretty sympathetic. But no, so

347
00:19:38.119 --> 00:19:41.759
as they're sitting and talking at this diner, it's very

348
00:19:41.799 --> 00:19:45.039
paternal he's you know, he sits down, He's like, how

349
00:19:45.079 --> 00:19:46.640
are you. He's like, I'm good, you know how school?

350
00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:48.720
Oh you got your haircut? And then he's like, do

351
00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:50.440
you mind if I eat real quick? First? I'm starving.

352
00:19:50.480 --> 00:19:52.160
He's like of course, and he's like, do you have money?

353
00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:53.599
Do you want me to you know, get your foot

354
00:19:53.680 --> 00:19:56.000
like very that's what made it was. It was the

355
00:19:56.079 --> 00:19:57.720
question about like do you have money to get food?

356
00:19:57.759 --> 00:20:00.000
Where I was like, well, this is a paternal exchange,

357
00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:03.279
very very much. And when they're meeting, their meeting by

358
00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:06.240
the riverside and he gives him his gift, there are

359
00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:08.240
a lot of things running through my head once you

360
00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:10.480
because when you said he wasn't his son, then I

361
00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:13.880
stopped asking questions about who he was because I realized

362
00:20:14.119 --> 00:20:17.200
then who he was is probably a major story point. Yes, so,

363
00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:20.400
because at first there's like all these questions like is

364
00:20:20.440 --> 00:20:23.680
he his secret lover? Like does he have like a

365
00:20:24.200 --> 00:20:28.200
young lover that he's hiding? But that but it turns

366
00:20:28.200 --> 00:20:33.039
out that most of the movie until the end is

367
00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:35.079
kind of what you see is what you get.

368
00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:38.400
Yeah, until it's not yeah, yeah.

369
00:20:38.119 --> 00:20:41.000
Until it absolutely isn't. And we'll get into more of

370
00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:56.480
that right after this, and we're back talking all about

371
00:20:56.720 --> 00:20:59.920
the killing of a sacred deer. Now at this point,

372
00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:02.799
even played by Colin Ferrell, has just given a very

373
00:21:02.839 --> 00:21:08.720
expensive fancy watch to Martin, and we're starting to understand

374
00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:13.319
that they have some kind of a mentor mentee relationship.

375
00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:15.759
I do think that I couldn't have been the only

376
00:21:15.799 --> 00:21:17.680
person watching it was wondering if there was some kind

377
00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:19.440
of a secret sexual relationship.

378
00:21:19.759 --> 00:21:22.160
I think I think for a hot minute I did too,

379
00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:30.200
just because of how how much Martin pester's Steven. Yeah,

380
00:21:30.920 --> 00:21:33.720
because it Yeah, I don't think it was initially, but

381
00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:35.799
then I did think, like, why is is he like

382
00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:39.119
paying him off well so that he won't you know,

383
00:21:39.240 --> 00:21:42.279
won't talk about it or you know, but we did

384
00:21:42.279 --> 00:21:42.839
get into it.

385
00:21:43.000 --> 00:21:47.119
I just assumed gifts. You because give gifts to to lovers,

386
00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:49.759
you give gifts to family members, And that's kind of

387
00:21:49.880 --> 00:21:51.599
That's kind of the thing is you know how like

388
00:21:51.880 --> 00:21:57.400
people pretty much present their paternalism to two types of people,

389
00:21:58.119 --> 00:22:01.599
their children or their love. Yeah, you know that those

390
00:22:01.599 --> 00:22:04.440
are the people you give that level of like did

391
00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:07.279
you eat? You look hungry? You know that's really kind

392
00:22:07.279 --> 00:22:11.279
of for husbands, wives, and children to an extent or

393
00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:15.480
the gray area in between. So that's why I was wondering.

394
00:22:15.519 --> 00:22:18.400
And then if I'm right, then he's at the hospital

395
00:22:18.519 --> 00:22:20.319
and Martin comes by and to visit him.

396
00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:22.960
He does a little bit later, but immediately after that

397
00:22:23.039 --> 00:22:24.400
we're introduced to the family.

398
00:22:24.519 --> 00:22:27.640
Oh right, right, right of course, and the family very

399
00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:31.880
well cast. Nicole Kidman plays his wife, and she is

400
00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:40.160
so complex, very well performed in that role. And then

401
00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:44.000
their daughter Kimberly or Kim, played by Raffie Cassidy. I

402
00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:46.279
had not seen her in anything, that is right off

403
00:22:46.319 --> 00:22:49.400
the top of my head. But their son Bob, Yeah,

404
00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:51.640
I love kids named Bob because that makes me think

405
00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:55.079
of House by the Cemetery by Lucio Fulci. Bob is

406
00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:58.839
played by Sonny Souljik, who I remember from mid nineties

407
00:22:59.359 --> 00:23:03.400
the film direc To Buy Jonah Hill. He plays one

408
00:23:03.400 --> 00:23:06.480
of the main kids in mid nineties and he's really

409
00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:09.079
good in that too. He's a bit older in mid nineties.

410
00:23:09.119 --> 00:23:11.079
I think they came out in twenty nineteen. But anyway,

411
00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:12.039
so we meet the family.

412
00:23:12.079 --> 00:23:15.759
We meet the family, and the first thing that at

413
00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:19.839
least struck me is the family all very clearly care

414
00:23:19.960 --> 00:23:20.599
for each other.

415
00:23:20.880 --> 00:23:22.559
It takes a second to figure that out, but it

416
00:23:22.599 --> 00:23:23.920
does because they talk.

417
00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:32.480
So it's so deadpan, it's so it's beyond formal. Yeah,

418
00:23:32.480 --> 00:23:34.039
it's beyond formal.

419
00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:38.920
There's uh, it's almost mechanical the way they interact something affect.

420
00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:45.279
It's like I can't I can't remember. No, but there's

421
00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:49.720
there's a name for an actual like specific person personality

422
00:23:49.720 --> 00:23:52.799
effect flat effect, where they have a flat effect. And

423
00:23:52.839 --> 00:23:56.319
so like everything that they say comes out as being

424
00:23:56.559 --> 00:23:58.240
almost disinterested.

425
00:23:58.440 --> 00:23:59.599
Oh yeah, I see what you're saying.

426
00:23:59.640 --> 00:24:01.559
Yeah, yeah, because they've got a flat of and the

427
00:24:01.640 --> 00:24:05.920
whole family has this flat effect. But then you realize

428
00:24:05.960 --> 00:24:08.599
as they're talking at the dinner table that they are

429
00:24:08.680 --> 00:24:12.240
making jokes. It's just not coming off across as jokes.

430
00:24:12.680 --> 00:24:16.119
Where the dad is talking to Bob about how he

431
00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:18.000
should have cut his hair and he's like, you know,

432
00:24:18.079 --> 00:24:20.559
I'm gonna I'm gonna make you cut your hair, and

433
00:24:20.559 --> 00:24:22.519
and at first you think he's scolding him, but no,

434
00:24:23.200 --> 00:24:25.480
like there is just a friendly, friendly.

435
00:24:25.160 --> 00:24:28.440
Little extenion like his hair is beautiful, yeah, and the

436
00:24:28.599 --> 00:24:32.200
hair like that, And then the daughter's like yeah, and

437
00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:34.400
she's like, we all have beautiful hair. You know that

438
00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:36.799
kind of thing, and I want to mention, So Bob

439
00:24:36.839 --> 00:24:39.160
is probably what nine or ten, Yeah, somewhere somewhere in there,

440
00:24:39.359 --> 00:24:44.440
and then and then uh, Kimberly is probably twelve thirteen.

441
00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:48.279
So I mean, especially because a major plot point is

442
00:24:48.319 --> 00:24:49.880
that she's began menstruating.

443
00:24:50.039 --> 00:24:55.440
Yeah, so just had monarchy. Monarchy, Yeah, that's the that's

444
00:24:55.480 --> 00:24:58.160
the actual term for your first period. Monarchy.

445
00:24:58.240 --> 00:25:03.960
See, I prefer mensies because it's fun to say, but no, so, yeah,

446
00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:06.400
you're right, they're exchanging things. But you realize that while

447
00:25:06.440 --> 00:25:09.680
they're exchanging things. That's why I called it like beyond formal. Yeah,

448
00:25:09.720 --> 00:25:12.480
because formal is like, yes, I'm having a good day, Yeah,

449
00:25:12.519 --> 00:25:15.720
the weather is fine. It's way beyond formal because it's

450
00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:19.119
so flat. But they're talking about consequential things. Yes, Like

451
00:25:19.160 --> 00:25:22.680
she just says like I had my first period, should

452
00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:25.359
just come out, And you're like, well, that is important

453
00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:28.359
and valuable for the family to understand.

454
00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:29.200
But why did you say it like that?

455
00:25:29.319 --> 00:25:33.960
But it's just presented as so yeah, mundane. Everything is

456
00:25:34.359 --> 00:25:37.519
mundane to an extent. It's just kind of happening in

457
00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:38.279
their day.

458
00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:41.960
And we kind of we kind of get tastes of

459
00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:44.920
that is, you know, because Stephen he's a cardiologist and

460
00:25:44.920 --> 00:25:48.880
a heart surgeon and his wife, Anna is an ophthalmologist.

461
00:25:50.799 --> 00:25:57.319
So to them, like medicine is so normalized, logic, logic

462
00:25:57.440 --> 00:26:02.400
is so normalized. Like there's such a logical lead driven family. Yes,

463
00:26:02.440 --> 00:26:07.079
and that theme does carry through the whole film, but

464
00:26:07.160 --> 00:26:09.440
we really, you know, we really see it right off

465
00:26:09.480 --> 00:26:11.680
the bat here at the dinner table, and then even

466
00:26:13.079 --> 00:26:15.799
later on when Steve and Anna are in their own

467
00:26:15.880 --> 00:26:20.000
room and they're kind of talking about what dress she's

468
00:26:20.039 --> 00:26:22.599
going to be wearing at a conference that's coming up,

469
00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:26.480
and at first, again it seems really just matter of fact,

470
00:26:26.680 --> 00:26:30.119
logic driven, where she says, you know, I'm thinking about

471
00:26:30.319 --> 00:26:32.960
getting this dress to wear, and he says that one

472
00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:35.680
was all right, but I really preferred the black dress.

473
00:26:35.720 --> 00:26:37.559
I like the way the black dress looked on you.

474
00:26:38.359 --> 00:26:42.039
And then you realize, oh no, they're flirting like hardcore.

475
00:26:42.920 --> 00:26:46.680
And then she just says general anesthesia and he says yeah,

476
00:26:46.799 --> 00:26:50.599
and she lays down in her undies, just sprowled out

477
00:26:50.599 --> 00:26:52.680
on the bed, and you realized, oh no, this is

478
00:26:52.759 --> 00:26:53.640
for play for them.

479
00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:58.920
Yeah, and apparently his favorite sex game is to pretend

480
00:26:59.079 --> 00:27:04.599
that she's been an esthetized, which is creepy, weird and unusual,

481
00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:07.640
but also like if I'm going to put my human

482
00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:10.400
cap on about how weird we are as people. He

483
00:27:10.519 --> 00:27:14.680
spends time all day long around anesthetized people. I could

484
00:27:14.759 --> 00:27:19.599
see that being a kind of uncomfortable to admit fantasy

485
00:27:20.079 --> 00:27:23.240
because it's a power because a lot of deeper sexual

486
00:27:23.279 --> 00:27:27.079
fantasies are about power. Yeah, and being around an esthetized

487
00:27:27.079 --> 00:27:29.960
people all day you would think, like, you know, I

488
00:27:30.039 --> 00:27:32.359
won't do this, but what if I did? It becomes

489
00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:35.079
it becomes an even bigger taboo than you know, to

490
00:27:35.079 --> 00:27:39.240
somebody who's not around unesthetized people. But yeah, I thought

491
00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:41.559
that that gave me a lot of pause too, because

492
00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:44.880
that made me realize that that either she is like

493
00:27:45.440 --> 00:27:49.640
truly disturbed or they just have which I think is

494
00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:53.440
the case, They just have a very good, clear communication

495
00:27:53.799 --> 00:27:57.440
to where he was comfortable sharing such a weird kink

496
00:27:57.519 --> 00:28:02.160
with her. Yeah, because also worth mentioning they mentioned not

497
00:28:02.200 --> 00:28:04.200
only is she an optomologist, she has her own office.

498
00:28:04.519 --> 00:28:07.440
Because there's constantly reference to I'm having it remodeled, having

499
00:28:07.480 --> 00:28:10.400
it redone. And for those who have been fortunate enough

500
00:28:10.400 --> 00:28:14.519
to never visit an optomologist that is not an optometrist.

501
00:28:15.400 --> 00:28:18.519
An optometrist is when you go to like Myre or

502
00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:21.599
not Myra, like Walmart or Lens Crafters, and they look

503
00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:23.200
at your eye, they maybe blow a little air in

504
00:28:23.240 --> 00:28:26.440
your eye, and they give you your prescription. An optomologist

505
00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:32.039
deals with serious eye problems, infections or I almost went

506
00:28:32.039 --> 00:28:33.799
blind when I was a teenager. I had a severe

507
00:28:33.880 --> 00:28:36.400
viral infection in my right eye and I had just

508
00:28:36.519 --> 00:28:39.720
and my my doctor sent me to an optalmologist. And

509
00:28:39.839 --> 00:28:42.960
I always say, what's the difference between optometists and optomologists.

510
00:28:43.000 --> 00:28:47.720
An optomologist touches your eye constantly to examine it properly.

511
00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:50.960
They can also do very basic surgery to your eye,

512
00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:55.279
usually the kind that doesn't require full anesthesia, the kind

513
00:28:55.359 --> 00:28:58.200
where you sit there with your head and stir and

514
00:28:58.359 --> 00:29:02.079
they peel your That happened to me. They put my

515
00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:05.519
head in a vice kind of thing, and then they

516
00:29:05.599 --> 00:29:08.799
numbed me with drops and they peeled the epithelial layer,

517
00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:10.640
which is the top layer of skin on your eye.

518
00:29:10.880 --> 00:29:13.119
They peeled it off because it had becomes scarred from

519
00:29:13.160 --> 00:29:14.759
all the treatment to fight the infection.

520
00:29:15.160 --> 00:29:16.519
Oh, so you got to grow a new one.

521
00:29:16.680 --> 00:29:17.920
Had to grow a new one, so they had to

522
00:29:17.960 --> 00:29:20.079
peel it and then tape my eyelid down so I

523
00:29:20.079 --> 00:29:25.200
wouldn't blink and rip off the new the new skin.

524
00:29:25.400 --> 00:29:29.079
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sixteen when that's happening.

525
00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:32.599
And that was after eight months of fighting the infection.

526
00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:36.160
Eight months I had eye drops I had to take

527
00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:41.160
every two and a half hours, including during sleep, because

528
00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:43.480
the infection was so dangerous. I was at such high

529
00:29:43.559 --> 00:29:47.839
risk of losing vision entirely, so I had to wake

530
00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:50.079
up every two and a half hours while I was

531
00:29:50.119 --> 00:29:55.039
asleep to take these eye drops that burned unbelievably bad

532
00:29:56.799 --> 00:29:58.960
all night long. And that that was for about three

533
00:29:58.960 --> 00:30:01.440
and a half months of that intense level. Then they

534
00:30:01.440 --> 00:30:05.960
were able to switch me to ointment for your eyeball.

535
00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:08.440
Oh so you got to put it on directly.

536
00:30:08.599 --> 00:30:12.000
You put you literally put goop in your eye so

537
00:30:12.039 --> 00:30:16.599
that it is covered with this anti viral medication and

538
00:30:16.920 --> 00:30:20.000
the whole day your eye is a little blurrier. But

539
00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:21.400
people will be like, how do you stand that? I'm like, well,

540
00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:22.960
how did I stand? The first four months I never

541
00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:25.400
opened that eye in public because it was so light

542
00:30:25.480 --> 00:30:28.319
sensitive and inflamed. Yeah, yeah, this is one of my

543
00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:30.279
favorite stories to just drop on people because like, what

544
00:30:30.359 --> 00:30:33.160
the heck? And the best part and cruelest part is now,

545
00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:35.359
if you get that exact same infection, it's a one

546
00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:38.480
pill treatment. Oh yay, Yeah, they figure that out.

547
00:30:38.480 --> 00:30:40.599
Hooray for the advances of modern medicine.

548
00:30:40.640 --> 00:30:43.599
They figured that out three years after my infection.

549
00:30:43.799 --> 00:30:45.200
Were you just like son up a bitch.

550
00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:47.880
The funniest part is the pill. I did a little research.

551
00:30:47.960 --> 00:30:50.440
It's not even expensive either, Like without insurance, it's like

552
00:30:50.599 --> 00:30:53.039
forty five dollars for a month's worth. It's like it's

553
00:30:53.079 --> 00:30:56.640
like it's like the easiest treatment ever. But I was

554
00:30:56.680 --> 00:30:59.240
seeing I was seeing a specialist. I was seeing the

555
00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:04.759
optomologists so much that they started waiving our copay out

556
00:31:04.799 --> 00:31:07.079
of like, we're so sorry because you're here three or

557
00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:11.200
four times a week. Well, because it was bad enough,

558
00:31:11.240 --> 00:31:13.200
and I'll get off this topic, but it was bad

559
00:31:13.279 --> 00:31:17.119
enough that I had to see them for emergency things

560
00:31:17.279 --> 00:31:19.359
like my eye would inflame worse and we would have

561
00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:21.079
to call and be like we don't know what to do,

562
00:31:21.119 --> 00:31:23.119
and they would be like come over right now on

563
00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:28.400
a Saturday at one pm and they look at it. Yeah,

564
00:31:28.480 --> 00:31:30.319
it got to the point where our copay was starting

565
00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:32.880
to add up to hundreds of dollars a month and

566
00:31:32.920 --> 00:31:36.160
we had good insurance, but you're not. Generally people don't

567
00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:41.119
see specialists three to four times a week. Yeah, it

568
00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:46.000
was brutal, but on the plus side, it all started

569
00:31:46.039 --> 00:31:49.559
at Christmas time. So when I started crying because we

570
00:31:49.599 --> 00:31:52.519
found out that my test results were the worst possible scenario,

571
00:31:52.559 --> 00:31:54.119
which was that you could lose your vision from a

572
00:31:54.240 --> 00:31:56.920
viral infection, Mom let me open one present early and

573
00:31:57.000 --> 00:31:58.519
it was Back to the Future on DVD.

574
00:31:58.880 --> 00:32:02.319
Oh well, see, there you go. I don't know about them.

575
00:32:02.599 --> 00:32:05.440
All things have a silver lining, but we're gonna we'll

576
00:32:05.440 --> 00:32:08.640
get back to some less disturbing things at first, with

577
00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:24.039
killing of a Sacred Deer really quick after this. All right,

578
00:32:24.279 --> 00:32:27.519
so we meet the family. We see that they appear

579
00:32:27.599 --> 00:32:32.759
to be actually pretty close knit by and large, not normal.

580
00:32:32.559 --> 00:32:35.079
But well adjusted. Yeah that makes sense.

581
00:32:35.240 --> 00:32:38.359
Yeah, well it's almost to me the way that your

582
00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:42.160
ghost does his movies, especially this one in particular, is

583
00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:45.480
almost like everybody is pure in Yeah, like there's no

584
00:32:45.519 --> 00:32:48.519
ego or super ego. Yeah, they're there's pure. It's like

585
00:32:48.559 --> 00:32:53.039
you're getting their stream of consciousness entirely you're getting no filtration,

586
00:32:53.640 --> 00:32:58.000
no human addition to information, it's just being shared.

587
00:32:58.279 --> 00:33:02.960
Yeah, it does that a lot, and I'm glad you.

588
00:33:03.319 --> 00:33:06.880
I'm glad you mentioned that. So we meet the family,

589
00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:12.279
and then the next day is when Martin comes by

590
00:33:12.359 --> 00:33:15.960
the hospital unannounced to see Stephen. And that was the

591
00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:19.359
point where I thought maybe they were like weird secret lovers,

592
00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:24.279
because Martin's literally just sitting in the waiting room of

593
00:33:24.440 --> 00:33:28.079
the operating room, just waiting for Stephen to get done.

594
00:33:28.319 --> 00:33:30.039
And Stephen comes out and kind of like takes him

595
00:33:30.039 --> 00:33:31.480
out of the hall, like I told you to call

596
00:33:31.519 --> 00:33:33.759
me first, like there's no need for you to just

597
00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:37.960
sit in the waiting room for hours on end. And

598
00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:45.039
that's when Matthew, the anesthician comes out. Anesthegiologist and adologist,

599
00:33:45.279 --> 00:33:49.240
and an aesthetician is a person who does hair I believe,

600
00:33:49.480 --> 00:33:53.799
I think so, anestegiologist. So he comes out and Martin

601
00:33:53.880 --> 00:33:57.640
starts showing off his watch, and he asks how Stephen

602
00:33:57.680 --> 00:34:01.680
and Martin know each other, and Steve even kind of

603
00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:05.799
lies and says that Martin goes to his daughter's school

604
00:34:06.319 --> 00:34:09.199
and his father was killed in a car accident, so

605
00:34:09.440 --> 00:34:12.280
he's been kind of taking a special interest in Martin,

606
00:34:12.599 --> 00:34:16.079
and you can see on Martin's face that he knows

607
00:34:16.119 --> 00:34:20.119
it's a lie, and he's a little confused why he

608
00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:21.840
would lie, But then he picks up on it and

609
00:34:21.880 --> 00:34:23.960
he just takes joy in the fact that he's being

610
00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:26.800
included in the deception that he just goes along with it,

611
00:34:26.800 --> 00:34:27.719
because that's kind of cool.

612
00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:30.400
Well, and another thing worth mentioning is that kind of

613
00:34:30.440 --> 00:34:33.760
made me not think that Martin was entirely a secret

614
00:34:34.119 --> 00:34:36.639
or meant to be a secret, was when he tells him, like,

615
00:34:36.679 --> 00:34:39.039
you can't just show up here and do that. When

616
00:34:39.079 --> 00:34:41.960
he sees that Martin is kind of perturbed by that

617
00:34:42.039 --> 00:34:45.000
a little bit, he tries he's like, let me clarify,

618
00:34:45.920 --> 00:34:50.239
I have meetings and surgeries. If you come here without warning,

619
00:34:50.280 --> 00:34:54.880
you may sit around like it'd be so inconvenient exactly.

620
00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:56.880
And I don't think he's just saying that the play Kadom.

621
00:34:56.880 --> 00:34:58.519
I think he is, like, that's kind of the main

622
00:34:58.559 --> 00:35:00.960
reason that this is annoying is like, I can't do

623
00:35:01.159 --> 00:35:04.280
drop ins. I'm a surgeon. Yeah, Like I have appointments,

624
00:35:04.480 --> 00:35:07.480
surgeries and meetings and all of those are set in stone.

625
00:35:08.039 --> 00:35:10.440
And I thought that that was very telling as well

626
00:35:10.440 --> 00:35:12.280
though that He's like, no, I'm just telling you it's

627
00:35:12.280 --> 00:35:14.800
not really it doesn't really make sense for you to

628
00:35:14.800 --> 00:35:17.639
stop by without letting me know first, because I'm just

629
00:35:17.679 --> 00:35:20.199
not sitting in my office all day exactly doing all

630
00:35:20.199 --> 00:35:20.559
these things.

631
00:35:20.599 --> 00:35:24.199
Because he's not trying to keep Martin a secret from anyone.

632
00:35:24.920 --> 00:35:30.079
He's just not necessarily willing to sit there and explain

633
00:35:30.199 --> 00:35:32.239
like exactly how they know each other, why they know

634
00:35:32.320 --> 00:35:34.159
each other, or anything about it, just like this is

635
00:35:34.320 --> 00:35:36.840
this is Martin, and I take an interest in him.

636
00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:40.119
Yeah, and to make that even more so, although I'm

637
00:35:40.119 --> 00:35:41.639
not trying to jump ahead a ton, but I mean,

638
00:35:42.199 --> 00:35:46.400
shortly thereafter he takes Martin to meet his family. So clearly,

639
00:35:46.480 --> 00:35:49.000
if he is a secret, it's the weirdest secret I've

640
00:35:49.000 --> 00:35:50.280
ever known. You know.

641
00:35:50.440 --> 00:35:52.280
You know what do they say about hiding things in

642
00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:55.760
plain sight? I mean that, which is part of this.

643
00:35:56.159 --> 00:35:57.880
Yeah, No, you're not wrong, You're not wrong.

644
00:35:58.320 --> 00:36:03.039
So then we go to the conference, and what was

645
00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:05.840
interesting about the conference is that Anna is wearing the

646
00:36:05.880 --> 00:36:10.000
shirt that Steven loves, and how as he's giving his

647
00:36:10.079 --> 00:36:15.320
little talk, just how engaged she is, Yeah, watching him.

648
00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:17.320
My thought when I was first watching it, knowing that

649
00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:19.960
I know nothing about where we're going other than that

650
00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:22.800
this movie's going to be heavy in nuts, which does

651
00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:26.320
inform your judgment somewhat. I even mentioned to you, I

652
00:36:26.360 --> 00:36:28.920
was like, she is so into him, or she hates

653
00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:31.760
him with all of her heart, because you only look

654
00:36:31.800 --> 00:36:34.960
at somebody that intentful intentfully if you love him or

655
00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:38.599
hate him. Yeah, so yeah, she is like hanging on

656
00:36:38.639 --> 00:36:43.000
his every word as he is talking about advancements in

657
00:36:43.079 --> 00:36:49.480
cardiology to this group of white of mostly white people

658
00:36:49.599 --> 00:36:52.000
who are all very similar to them, which I think

659
00:36:52.039 --> 00:36:54.159
is an important element too, because it's kind of establishing

660
00:36:54.159 --> 00:36:56.920
that this is the universe, this is the world. It's

661
00:36:56.920 --> 00:37:00.440
not just that this family, you know, all rank from

662
00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:02.039
the same Asperger's Fountain.

663
00:37:02.280 --> 00:37:04.800
You know, No, everybody's kind of weird like.

664
00:37:04.760 --> 00:37:07.239
That, everybody is this way in this world. It's very

665
00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:09.760
what you see is what you get world, because you know,

666
00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:11.800
doctors are walking up and saying, you know, would you

667
00:37:11.800 --> 00:37:13.280
like me to get you a drink in her saying

668
00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:15.320
he hasn't had a drink in three years. But there's

669
00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:17.719
no like, oh you're so stupid, or oh I'm so

670
00:37:18.239 --> 00:37:20.679
insanely proud. It's more of a matter of fact. Like

671
00:37:20.920 --> 00:37:22.599
he's made a change in his life for the better

672
00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:23.920
and no, thank you.

673
00:37:24.159 --> 00:37:25.960
Exactly, very very different from.

674
00:37:25.880 --> 00:37:29.679
The way humans interact socially, where we're a lot more careful.

675
00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:32.480
We don't want to come across as insulting, even if

676
00:37:32.480 --> 00:37:36.280
we have no reason to insult someone, you know, very

677
00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:39.920
you know, I mean, gosh, the the dichotomy of human

678
00:37:39.960 --> 00:37:45.599
interaction is so unbelievably complicated. It really really is. And

679
00:37:45.639 --> 00:37:48.119
the worst part is it's funny because people I'm very

680
00:37:48.199 --> 00:37:51.800
I'm good at navigating conversations, I'm good at having conversations

681
00:37:51.800 --> 00:37:55.719
with strangers and everything like that, and sometimes people will

682
00:37:55.760 --> 00:38:01.280
suggest that it's because I'm unaware of how difficult conversation

683
00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:04.360
or conversation can be, or how many you know, faux

684
00:38:04.400 --> 00:38:05.880
paus there are, and that I'm not worrying about them

685
00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:07.920
because I'm not thinking of them. It's a total opposite.

686
00:38:08.440 --> 00:38:11.559
I have all of it listed out, I'm very aware

687
00:38:11.599 --> 00:38:14.559
of it. I just kind of am confident in navigating it.

688
00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:18.960
But like I wish that were why. I wish that

689
00:38:19.079 --> 00:38:21.800
was why I feel confident talking to a total stranger,

690
00:38:22.199 --> 00:38:24.880
you know, at a grocery store or whatever, just because

691
00:38:24.880 --> 00:38:28.320
they're there. But anyway, so yeah, yeah, I think that

692
00:38:28.320 --> 00:38:31.639
that conference says a lot about their marriage too. Also,

693
00:38:32.480 --> 00:38:35.800
his friends are very friendly with his wife, which they all.

694
00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:38.719
They all know her very well, and they all seem

695
00:38:39.280 --> 00:38:42.800
very invested in not only her career but also how

696
00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:45.360
the kids are doing, because they ask about how, you know,

697
00:38:45.400 --> 00:38:49.119
how Bob's doing, and they do, you know, they just

698
00:38:49.760 --> 00:38:52.719
kind of drop it again just because it's an interesting

699
00:38:52.800 --> 00:38:54.559
thing to be talked about. They're like, oh, yeah, and

700
00:38:54.599 --> 00:38:56.559
then Kim had her first period and all the doctors

701
00:38:56.599 --> 00:38:58.920
are like, oh, that's good, that's right around the time

702
00:38:58.960 --> 00:39:02.440
she should be. That's excellent, Like yeah, and again like

703
00:39:03.800 --> 00:39:06.320
and you know, you know my family, I do have

704
00:39:07.519 --> 00:39:12.000
one surgeon in my family, and I've met doctors just

705
00:39:12.039 --> 00:39:16.039
like hanging out, and it's so weird how health and

706
00:39:16.119 --> 00:39:19.679
medicine is just so normalized to them, because that is

707
00:39:19.719 --> 00:39:22.320
like the kind of conversation I could see doctors having

708
00:39:22.440 --> 00:39:24.159
is like, oh, yeah, my daughter had her first period.

709
00:39:24.159 --> 00:39:26.719
Oh that's excellent, that's exactly the timeframe she should be

710
00:39:26.719 --> 00:39:28.840
having it, and it all went well, tell me about it,

711
00:39:28.880 --> 00:39:29.920
you know, in great detail.

712
00:39:30.199 --> 00:39:34.800
Well, especially surgeons, Yeah, surgeons deal with patients directly and

713
00:39:34.840 --> 00:39:41.239
conversationally and this is a broad statement, but relatively like

714
00:39:41.320 --> 00:39:47.320
they marginally less than a general practitioner. Would you know,

715
00:39:47.360 --> 00:39:49.639
a general practitioner needs to have a somewhat of an

716
00:39:49.679 --> 00:39:52.719
ongoing relationship with you about what your life is like,

717
00:39:53.039 --> 00:39:55.119
and when you come into a specialist or a surgeon,

718
00:39:55.320 --> 00:39:58.360
it's much more well, your lungs look like this, Well,

719
00:39:58.400 --> 00:40:02.400
sometimes I will just fix the lungs and you're like,

720
00:40:02.480 --> 00:40:06.280
oh okay. And then there's sleep doctors, which are all

721
00:40:06.800 --> 00:40:08.480
directly related to attil of the hunt.

722
00:40:10.320 --> 00:40:11.480
Is that your personal opinion?

723
00:40:12.239 --> 00:40:16.000
I mean, if you want a second opinion, we could

724
00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:18.639
try and find you one. But well, it looks like

725
00:40:18.719 --> 00:40:20.599
you have a lot of appne as well. You're sleep.

726
00:40:20.639 --> 00:40:24.639
This will definitely lead to death, mental issues, heart attack,

727
00:40:24.719 --> 00:40:26.639
and stroke. So we'll see if we can do something

728
00:40:26.679 --> 00:40:29.000
about it. When we see you again in sixty five

729
00:40:29.119 --> 00:40:32.079
days and you're like, cool, I'll have no trouble going

730
00:40:32.119 --> 00:40:32.920
to sleep tonight.

731
00:40:35.199 --> 00:40:38.880
Wow, feel so much better, I feel so comforted.

732
00:40:39.159 --> 00:40:41.519
I feel so great. I remember I told my mother,

733
00:40:41.559 --> 00:40:43.039
I was like, I'm just nervous about all this because

734
00:40:43.039 --> 00:40:44.519
they told me how bad it was, and she was like,

735
00:40:45.119 --> 00:40:46.280
or because of how bad it is that she was

736
00:40:46.320 --> 00:40:47.840
like well, can't you call them and try to speed

737
00:40:47.840 --> 00:40:49.320
it up because of an emergency. I'm like, well, they

738
00:40:49.360 --> 00:40:52.639
described it to me as an emergency, and then we're like, anyway,

739
00:40:52.679 --> 00:40:53.960
whenever when we can get you in.

740
00:40:54.960 --> 00:40:57.039
Oh no, they're well aware of how dangerous it is.

741
00:40:57.079 --> 00:40:58.039
They just don't give a.

742
00:40:58.119 --> 00:41:01.119
Shit, you know, to them, it's normal. It's every day,

743
00:41:01.199 --> 00:41:04.360
it's every single day. So but no, so I agree

744
00:41:04.400 --> 00:41:08.320
the the doctors talking to doctor's element is very strange.

745
00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:12.920
And and the wife we never anna, we never see

746
00:41:12.960 --> 00:41:17.239
her in context of practicing medicine, but we know that

747
00:41:17.320 --> 00:41:20.199
she practices medicine, So that's where're saying to we just

748
00:41:20.199 --> 00:41:23.519
never see her in a lab coat, you know, ever, right,

749
00:41:23.639 --> 00:41:27.559
but we know that she is a practicing doctor. So yeah,

750
00:41:27.599 --> 00:41:30.360
it's it's a really great see every there's no wasted

751
00:41:30.440 --> 00:41:33.360
motion in this two hour film. Everything you're seeing is

752
00:41:33.480 --> 00:41:36.039
valuable to you as the viewer to help you understand

753
00:41:36.039 --> 00:41:36.920
what's going to come.

754
00:41:36.840 --> 00:41:40.719
Later exactly exactly. And that's why you know, I did

755
00:41:40.719 --> 00:41:44.440
my thing where I like wrote down the basic outline

756
00:41:44.840 --> 00:41:47.760
and everything while while we were watching it. But in

757
00:41:47.840 --> 00:41:50.639
some uh, in some movies, like my notes are pretty

758
00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:53.480
detailed because I'm trying to really capture, like what was

759
00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:55.360
going on on screen with this. I was just like

760
00:41:55.400 --> 00:41:57.719
trying to give myself the beats because it is so

761
00:41:57.880 --> 00:42:02.519
much more about the atmosphere and what's happening on screen

762
00:42:03.039 --> 00:42:06.559
than it is the action. If that makes sense.

763
00:42:07.119 --> 00:42:08.880
No, it does, it does. It's a very it's a

764
00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:13.320
it's a it's very purposely paced to get you the

765
00:42:13.320 --> 00:42:15.519
information the way that it wants to get you the information.

766
00:42:15.559 --> 00:42:18.920
It's it's expertly directed exactly. And we'll get into more

767
00:42:18.960 --> 00:42:34.880
of that right after this and we're back. So what

768
00:42:35.079 --> 00:42:37.639
happens next for us to dissect?

769
00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:40.639
I break something apparently broke the microphone.

770
00:42:40.679 --> 00:42:43.679
You knocked off Dave's mike plate. It's just it's just

771
00:42:43.719 --> 00:42:46.239
on a magnet. You ruined the floor of the show.

772
00:42:46.719 --> 00:42:47.760
We got to start over now.

773
00:42:48.039 --> 00:42:53.559
Sorry everyone, Sorry, see you next week anyway. So after

774
00:42:53.920 --> 00:42:56.039
the conference and we kind of get a little bit

775
00:42:56.039 --> 00:43:00.480
more of a peek into their social life. Now, Stephen's

776
00:43:00.519 --> 00:43:03.159
walking along the river again with Martin and they're just

777
00:43:03.239 --> 00:43:05.320
kind of talking about what's going on in their lives,

778
00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:09.360
and Martin talks about, you know, friendships. He doesn't have

779
00:43:09.400 --> 00:43:11.559
a lot of friends, but that's okay. He thinks it's

780
00:43:11.559 --> 00:43:14.239
important to have good friends and not necessarily a lot

781
00:43:14.239 --> 00:43:16.079
of friends, and.

782
00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:20.599
Stephen and again because paternalism is so important at this juncture,

783
00:43:20.960 --> 00:43:23.440
he reassures him. He's like, that really is true in life,

784
00:43:23.840 --> 00:43:28.679
which is so valuable as a young person to have

785
00:43:28.719 --> 00:43:33.679
an adult say your opinion is not stupid or.

786
00:43:32.800 --> 00:43:36.159
Rare exactly, and you know what, it's good that you've

787
00:43:36.159 --> 00:43:36.559
shared it.

788
00:43:36.960 --> 00:43:39.400
Yeah, yeah, because I mean as a as a person

789
00:43:39.440 --> 00:43:42.559
who has had it, you know, had a very interesting

790
00:43:43.320 --> 00:43:47.880
life with my father, I've learned a lot about how

791
00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:52.400
helpful father figures can be when you don't have a

792
00:43:52.519 --> 00:43:57.119
very stable actual father, or or when they're absent, whatever

793
00:43:57.320 --> 00:44:01.079
it may be. So I I mean, like when I

794
00:44:01.119 --> 00:44:03.079
see scenes like that, my first thought is like, man,

795
00:44:03.559 --> 00:44:05.079
you know when it's happened and you don't really think

796
00:44:05.119 --> 00:44:08.719
about it, but those are like such very helpful moments

797
00:44:08.719 --> 00:44:11.719
for emotional development of a young man especially. I mean,

798
00:44:11.760 --> 00:44:13.320
I only know what it's like to grow up as

799
00:44:13.320 --> 00:44:15.320
a young man. It probably is great for young women too.

800
00:44:15.679 --> 00:44:16.159
I have no.

801
00:44:16.159 --> 00:44:18.480
Idea can tell you, but you cannot speak to that.

802
00:44:18.360 --> 00:44:21.280
Personal and you and you have parents who still love

803
00:44:21.320 --> 00:44:24.039
each other because you're a show off and a braggart.

804
00:44:24.280 --> 00:44:27.719
Sorry, so sorry about it. Sorry, it's all right.

805
00:44:27.719 --> 00:44:29.679
Why do I hang out with you? And you and Dave,

806
00:44:29.760 --> 00:44:32.000
my my co host on Do You Even? Movie? You

807
00:44:32.119 --> 00:44:34.559
both have parents who like still love each other and together?

808
00:44:34.599 --> 00:44:36.840
And what is why? What is wrong with me that

809
00:44:36.920 --> 00:44:38.360
I picked you guys to be around?

810
00:44:38.679 --> 00:44:41.679
I don't know, I don't It sounds like something you

811
00:44:41.679 --> 00:44:43.039
need to ask yourself.

812
00:44:43.079 --> 00:44:46.599
Apparently in the mirror while I'm putting on lipstick really angrily.

813
00:44:46.880 --> 00:44:49.960
Anyway, Anyway, well, and I thought it was really I

814
00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:53.320
thought that was very poignant too, because again, and and

815
00:44:53.440 --> 00:44:57.119
it helps that I've seen this movie twice now, so

816
00:44:57.159 --> 00:44:59.280
I kind of I already knew going into it. The

817
00:44:59.320 --> 00:45:01.320
second time, I was like, I need to pay even

818
00:45:01.320 --> 00:45:04.480
more attention because I feel like there's even more payoff

819
00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:06.719
in the movie than what I got the first time.

820
00:45:06.760 --> 00:45:10.480
And like I said, everything that's mentioned, everything that you

821
00:45:10.559 --> 00:45:14.679
see on screen ties back into something later. And what's

822
00:45:14.760 --> 00:45:19.519
really interesting is, you know, Martin has this opinion that

823
00:45:19.760 --> 00:45:22.559
it's important to have good friends, but not necessarily a

824
00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:25.639
lot of friends, and Stephen reassures him like that's that's good,

825
00:45:25.719 --> 00:45:27.400
that's good that you feel that way, and that you've

826
00:45:27.400 --> 00:45:32.679
discovered that about yourself. And toward the end of the film,

827
00:45:32.880 --> 00:45:36.719
Stephen and his son Bob are talking and Bob mentions

828
00:45:36.800 --> 00:45:39.639
how he has a lot of friends at school. It's

829
00:45:39.679 --> 00:45:44.119
these two boys and this one girl, and Stephen totally

830
00:45:44.800 --> 00:45:47.480
fathers in the same way and says, it's good to

831
00:45:47.519 --> 00:45:49.880
have lots of friends. It's good that you've learned this

832
00:45:49.960 --> 00:45:52.639
about yourself. That's a good thing. And so I thought

833
00:45:52.679 --> 00:45:57.400
it was just very interesting because it was kind of

834
00:45:57.440 --> 00:46:00.960
showing like he is trying to be a father to

835
00:46:01.039 --> 00:46:04.119
these two kids, even toward the end of the film

836
00:46:04.159 --> 00:46:07.039
when he's realized, like Martin probably doesn't need to be

837
00:46:07.119 --> 00:46:11.960
on the reciprocating end of his lover affection. Yeah, and

838
00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:14.719
you see him kind of switch that, turn that switch

839
00:46:14.719 --> 00:46:16.920
and switch it back to Okay, well, I need to

840
00:46:16.920 --> 00:46:19.760
give that love and affection to my actual child then,

841
00:46:20.320 --> 00:46:23.639
because I can't keep wasting it on whatever it is

842
00:46:23.719 --> 00:46:24.760
that's going on over there.

843
00:46:25.199 --> 00:46:30.360
Yeah. Yeah, no, And when we get into the actual heavy, harsh,

844
00:46:30.360 --> 00:46:35.039
brutal conundrum of the film, I have a lot a

845
00:46:35.119 --> 00:46:38.679
lot of thoughts about when we get to there. So,

846
00:46:38.679 --> 00:46:40.760
so now that he's he had a conversation, there's also

847
00:46:40.800 --> 00:46:42.639
one thing that I'm still kind of dealing with, by

848
00:46:42.639 --> 00:46:44.159
the way, which is that when he gave him the watch,

849
00:46:44.159 --> 00:46:45.960
he mentioned to Martin he got him a metal band

850
00:46:46.400 --> 00:46:50.039
for the watch, and Martin doesn't like the metal band,

851
00:46:50.079 --> 00:46:53.519
he'd much prefer a leather and he mentions, well, I

852
00:46:54.320 --> 00:46:56.840
my thought behind it was durability. You know that they're

853
00:46:56.880 --> 00:46:59.679
the most durable, and they are more expensive as well.

854
00:47:00.079 --> 00:47:02.000
You know, He's trying to like say like, I did

855
00:47:02.119 --> 00:47:05.199
make that choice thoughtfully, and he just kind of like

856
00:47:05.280 --> 00:47:07.119
right over it and he's like, I'll exchange it, you know,

857
00:47:07.400 --> 00:47:10.000
which I don't know if that really meant something, but

858
00:47:10.039 --> 00:47:14.199
I part of me is like, there's something like yeah,

859
00:47:14.280 --> 00:47:17.199
which may have been that he was not interested in

860
00:47:17.280 --> 00:47:22.519
durability of what their relationship was. That's what my first

861
00:47:22.719 --> 00:47:26.760
instinct about that exchange was, because when he sees him again,

862
00:47:26.840 --> 00:47:29.079
he mentions that he changed it, which is the other

863
00:47:29.079 --> 00:47:30.599
thing too. When he tells him that, he's like yeah,

864
00:47:30.800 --> 00:47:32.440
and then he's like, can I see it, Like I

865
00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:34.920
would like to see the band, So he's still keeping

866
00:47:34.920 --> 00:47:37.400
that interest in him active. But I don't know. Part

867
00:47:37.440 --> 00:47:39.360
of me was like, maybe maybe that was a reference

868
00:47:39.400 --> 00:47:42.119
to him being not interested in durability.

869
00:47:43.440 --> 00:47:46.280
And knowing how deep this film is, I could see that.

870
00:47:48.079 --> 00:47:53.320
Such a nerd. What a nerd? Push your glasses up, nerd? Perfect?

871
00:47:54.079 --> 00:47:57.840
So so yeah, so anyway, So so Stephen finally invites

872
00:47:58.079 --> 00:48:01.880
Martin to dinner with the family. When Martin arrives, he's

873
00:48:02.000 --> 00:48:06.719
brought flowers for Anna, and he mentions that Stephen mentioned

874
00:48:06.760 --> 00:48:09.159
she likes something some kind of flower, but he brought

875
00:48:09.239 --> 00:48:11.199
orchids because he thought they would look more beautiful with

876
00:48:11.239 --> 00:48:14.440
her eyes or something like that. Right, so, already he's

877
00:48:14.480 --> 00:48:17.119
showing that he knows a little bit more about the

878
00:48:17.159 --> 00:48:20.519
family than if he was a total complete stranger.

879
00:48:20.800 --> 00:48:23.679
Yes, and we don't get any warning. It's just all

880
00:48:23.679 --> 00:48:25.800
of a sudden, Martin is now meeting his whole family.

881
00:48:25.880 --> 00:48:28.880
Yeah, which they don't seem upset all confused.

882
00:48:29.079 --> 00:48:31.119
No, he's just like, this is a young man. I'm

883
00:48:31.159 --> 00:48:33.840
friends with Martin and I but I love that because

884
00:48:33.880 --> 00:48:36.079
it really turns me on my head from everything I'd

885
00:48:36.079 --> 00:48:38.480
seen before, where it really felt like he was a secret,

886
00:48:38.840 --> 00:48:42.280
it really felt like there was something below board going on,

887
00:48:42.559 --> 00:48:44.159
and now all of a sudden, it's like, please hang

888
00:48:44.159 --> 00:48:46.159
out with my family, spend time alone with my children,

889
00:48:46.239 --> 00:48:48.000
eat dinner with us, Would you like to stay the night,

890
00:48:48.320 --> 00:48:53.239
you know, like yeah, which, honestly, in hindsight, after what

891
00:48:53.360 --> 00:48:56.079
happens in the rest of the film, kind of breaks

892
00:48:56.079 --> 00:49:00.039
my heart because after that, if I remember correctly, he

893
00:49:00.119 --> 00:49:03.199
sitting in the bedroom with the two kids, yeah, and

894
00:49:03.400 --> 00:49:06.360
he asks if he can light a cigarette, and the

895
00:49:06.400 --> 00:49:08.719
little boys like, you know, no, you'll get in trouble.

896
00:49:08.760 --> 00:49:12.360
And then the sister is like, just open the window

897
00:49:12.360 --> 00:49:13.960
and do it by the window. So he's smoking the

898
00:49:13.960 --> 00:49:16.239
cigarette and he's given this hilarious talk about like I

899
00:49:16.280 --> 00:49:18.679
can't now, I'm addicted, you know. He just like says

900
00:49:18.679 --> 00:49:20.000
it so and it's so funny.

901
00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:21.679
The sixteen year old kid was like, I smoked a

902
00:49:21.719 --> 00:49:26.480
cigarette once at a party and no, I'm addicted. I

903
00:49:26.519 --> 00:49:28.960
can't go back. It was the worst mistake of my life,

904
00:49:28.960 --> 00:49:31.840
but I can't go back. I'm addicted.

905
00:49:32.039 --> 00:49:35.760
Yeah, it's so good. And then so then the the

906
00:49:36.760 --> 00:49:40.559
daughter Kim basically they decide to go on a walk,

907
00:49:40.880 --> 00:49:43.000
and he gives this weird exchange about like I don't

908
00:49:43.000 --> 00:49:44.760
want to walk that I don't like being around dogs

909
00:49:44.840 --> 00:49:46.719
because I imagine if it got in a fight with

910
00:49:46.800 --> 00:49:49.519
another dog, I'd have to separate the fight and how

911
00:49:49.559 --> 00:49:51.960
awful that would be. And all I'm thinking is like, wow,

912
00:49:52.079 --> 00:49:54.280
I mean, I know people like you you annoy me,

913
00:49:55.119 --> 00:49:58.199
but that's so much extra worry, Like you had to

914
00:49:58.239 --> 00:50:00.639
create a whole other dog that does and exist in

915
00:50:00.719 --> 00:50:03.639
order for this to be a problem for you. But

916
00:50:03.800 --> 00:50:05.880
so they go for a little walk and it's a

917
00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:09.719
very telling walk without them actually saying much at all.

918
00:50:10.159 --> 00:50:12.000
He wants her to sing for him. She won't in

919
00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:14.199
front of her brother because she's self conscious. But then

920
00:50:14.239 --> 00:50:16.679
when they're on the walk, she's singing for him, holding

921
00:50:16.719 --> 00:50:21.760
a cigarette because he's influencing her massively already, So she's

922
00:50:21.800 --> 00:50:25.159
holding a cigarette, singing a song for him. They're walking

923
00:50:25.199 --> 00:50:29.960
around the beautiful, their beautiful, high scale neighborhood, and worth

924
00:50:30.039 --> 00:50:33.679
mentioning takes place in Cincinnati, Ohio. We're in Dayton, Ohio,

925
00:50:33.840 --> 00:50:38.239
the Paris of Ohio, so that's about forty five minutes

926
00:50:38.280 --> 00:50:40.599
from us, Like we're very familiar, and it was indeed

927
00:50:41.039 --> 00:50:47.599
entirely shot in and around Cincinnati. They used an actual hospital.

928
00:50:47.639 --> 00:50:48.719
I forget the name of it off the top of

929
00:50:48.719 --> 00:50:51.199
my head, because I've never, thank goodness, knock on wood,

930
00:50:51.199 --> 00:50:54.159
never been hospitalized in Cincinnati, and they shot in the

931
00:50:54.199 --> 00:50:59.280
Hyde Park area for nearly everything else. And we'll talk

932
00:50:59.320 --> 00:51:01.840
about what happens when they get back from their walk

933
00:51:02.559 --> 00:51:17.599
after this, and we're back talking all about the killing

934
00:51:17.599 --> 00:51:21.119
of a sacred deer. So what I was mentioning before

935
00:51:21.320 --> 00:51:23.760
was after their walk, you know, they have dinner, yeah,

936
00:51:23.800 --> 00:51:28.800
and unless I'm going moving too fast, after dinner, they're

937
00:51:28.800 --> 00:51:32.599
all like sitting around talking and that's when Steven offers

938
00:51:32.639 --> 00:51:36.079
to let Martin stay the night. He's like, you're welcome

939
00:51:36.119 --> 00:51:38.280
to stay the night here. And the way he offers

940
00:51:38.320 --> 00:51:42.000
it breaks my heart because he's like, we could very

941
00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:45.960
easily put a mattress in Bob's room and you could

942
00:51:46.039 --> 00:51:47.679
sleep there, and then in the morning you two could

943
00:51:47.719 --> 00:51:50.800
hang out. Like he's like, he's so clearly trying to

944
00:51:50.960 --> 00:51:54.880
involve him in his family in like a very earnest

945
00:51:54.960 --> 00:51:57.239
and honest way of like you could say, the night

946
00:51:57.239 --> 00:51:58.639
in my son's room and you two could hang out

947
00:51:58.639 --> 00:52:01.440
and you know, have fun, Thank you guys, breakfast in

948
00:52:01.440 --> 00:52:03.440
the morning. I know he's a little young, but you know,

949
00:52:03.639 --> 00:52:05.559
you guys have fun. You know you're all getting along,

950
00:52:05.639 --> 00:52:07.800
you know, And and that just like breaks my heart

951
00:52:07.840 --> 00:52:11.400
where because of where things are going because regardless of

952
00:52:11.599 --> 00:52:15.280
in my opinion, regardless of all the darkness that's about

953
00:52:15.320 --> 00:52:20.800
to be revealed, I think that overall Stephen was not

954
00:52:20.960 --> 00:52:25.320
a bad man. No, So that's my opinion. I mean,

955
00:52:25.320 --> 00:52:28.079
if you agree, that's fine, but like that's that's my thought.

956
00:52:28.119 --> 00:52:29.960
But we'll get into that more once we find out

957
00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:33.800
why I'm defending him. So back to you, Palomino.

958
00:52:34.920 --> 00:52:39.400
So that night, Stephen and Anna are talking about Martin

959
00:52:39.960 --> 00:52:41.719
because she is a little bit curious.

960
00:52:42.079 --> 00:52:44.639
Yeah, why I've never heard of him until now? And yeah,

961
00:52:44.800 --> 00:52:48.039
things like that did you me? And which again to

962
00:52:48.159 --> 00:52:50.119
my point about like how I don't think overall he's

963
00:52:50.159 --> 00:52:53.840
a bad guy. He is, yes, he is withholding elements

964
00:52:53.840 --> 00:52:58.480
in line without a doubt, But he's truthful about how

965
00:52:58.519 --> 00:53:01.920
long he's known Martin. He's truthful about how often they

966
00:53:02.000 --> 00:53:05.039
see each other. And the thing that really stood out

967
00:53:05.079 --> 00:53:08.119
to me as to why where his moral compass is

968
00:53:08.159 --> 00:53:13.440
a little better than it could be. When Martin started

969
00:53:13.480 --> 00:53:16.920
presenting into his life all the time, his natural instinct

970
00:53:17.000 --> 00:53:18.920
was to introduce him to his family, make him less

971
00:53:18.920 --> 00:53:21.480
of a secret exactly, rather than double down on the

972
00:53:21.519 --> 00:53:23.440
secret or say like leave me alone, you want me

973
00:53:23.519 --> 00:53:25.840
to around too much of it or whatever. And I

974
00:53:25.880 --> 00:53:29.239
think that's so incredibly telling though, because it just really

975
00:53:29.280 --> 00:53:30.920
one of the choices in this movie that blows my

976
00:53:30.960 --> 00:53:33.880
mind is his choice to introduce him to his family. Yeah,

977
00:53:34.280 --> 00:53:37.280
and which granted was a actually I mean it really

978
00:53:37.559 --> 00:53:39.400
would have good way, it would not have helped if

979
00:53:39.440 --> 00:53:42.280
he had never met the family, but but yeah, yeah,

980
00:53:42.280 --> 00:53:44.119
but like the fact that he was like, you know,

981
00:53:44.119 --> 00:53:46.199
meet my family, hang out with my kids, to me

982
00:53:46.440 --> 00:53:49.400
is like, is the opposite. That's him going like, I

983
00:53:49.480 --> 00:53:51.599
want to be a part of Martin's life. I've made

984
00:53:51.599 --> 00:53:54.880
that choice, and if it's going to be more active

985
00:53:54.920 --> 00:53:58.000
than like a couple of lunches a year, I can't

986
00:53:58.039 --> 00:54:00.400
like keep not answering my wife to what I'm doing

987
00:54:00.719 --> 00:54:02.679
exact after work or whatever I need to, Like.

988
00:54:02.719 --> 00:54:04.079
I don't want this to be a lie.

989
00:54:04.280 --> 00:54:07.599
Yeah. Plus, his family is generally involved in damn you

990
00:54:07.679 --> 00:54:11.000
or everything other than literal surgery. You know, yes, but

991
00:54:11.079 --> 00:54:12.199
that's just my thought on that.

992
00:54:12.760 --> 00:54:17.000
So he again he is kind of misleading her on

993
00:54:17.039 --> 00:54:20.400
the exact circumstances of how they met, but again he

994
00:54:20.519 --> 00:54:23.840
is being honest most of the way through. But then

995
00:54:23.880 --> 00:54:27.320
he gets a phone call and it's it's like really late, yeah,

996
00:54:27.360 --> 00:54:30.400
and it's Martin on the phone saying, you know, well,

997
00:54:30.440 --> 00:54:32.519
I had a great time tonight and I just wanted,

998
00:54:32.719 --> 00:54:35.519
you know, to kind of extend the gesture to you.

999
00:54:35.679 --> 00:54:38.280
So I'd like for you to come to have dinner

1000
00:54:38.400 --> 00:54:40.079
with me and my mom tomorrow night.

1001
00:54:41.119 --> 00:54:45.079
And and we we got a hint right before that

1002
00:54:45.079 --> 00:54:48.280
that his mother something's a little off because he mentions like,

1003
00:54:48.320 --> 00:54:49.960
you have a beautiful home. I love your neighborhood and

1004
00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:52.400
walked in it was so peaceful, and they're like, you know,

1005
00:54:52.400 --> 00:54:53.719
where do you live? And he's like, I live in

1006
00:54:53.760 --> 00:54:56.079
a in a house on this on the north side,

1007
00:54:56.400 --> 00:55:00.519
a nice neighborhood house. Well, and when they offered him

1008
00:55:00.519 --> 00:55:02.880
to stay that he refuses because he doesn't like to

1009
00:55:02.960 --> 00:55:06.800
leave his mother alone for very long m which I

1010
00:55:06.880 --> 00:55:08.960
just wanted to bring that up because that plays into

1011
00:55:09.079 --> 00:55:14.039
him inviting Stephen to have dinner at his mother's house exactly.

1012
00:55:14.199 --> 00:55:18.440
Yeah, And you do get the idea that Martin has

1013
00:55:18.519 --> 00:55:21.760
this level of care for his mother because his dad

1014
00:55:21.800 --> 00:55:25.920
is out of the picture. So that definitely plays into

1015
00:55:25.960 --> 00:55:28.039
it too, that he's kind of tried to step up

1016
00:55:28.079 --> 00:55:31.119
and be the man of the house because his dad

1017
00:55:31.159 --> 00:55:34.400
isn't around anymore, so he takes it very seriously that

1018
00:55:34.480 --> 00:55:35.760
he's taking care of his mom.

1019
00:55:35.880 --> 00:55:38.159
Well, there are all I mean, if you want to

1020
00:55:38.199 --> 00:55:43.480
talk about talking about psychology, the psychology of a single

1021
00:55:43.559 --> 00:55:48.519
mother and a son can vary from relatively great to

1022
00:55:49.320 --> 00:55:56.639
deeply deeply dysfunctional due to the vacuum of no man

1023
00:55:56.679 --> 00:56:01.760
in the house. M there are definitely I've known people.

1024
00:56:01.920 --> 00:56:04.079
I'm very fortunate my mother and I have always had

1025
00:56:04.400 --> 00:56:09.000
I would say, a very appropriate and healthy relationship, even

1026
00:56:09.039 --> 00:56:12.599
when we've disagreed or whatever we do. Well, I never

1027
00:56:12.679 --> 00:56:17.280
felt like so the vibe I get from Martin and

1028
00:56:17.320 --> 00:56:18.880
his mother is what I'm trying to get at. Is

1029
00:56:19.199 --> 00:56:21.599
I get the vibe not that she is demanding he

1030
00:56:21.679 --> 00:56:24.199
be the man of the house, but that she is

1031
00:56:24.280 --> 00:56:32.239
manipulating him by acting helpless, by acting desperate for comfort

1032
00:56:32.280 --> 00:56:36.840
and protection. And that is generally, in what I've read

1033
00:56:36.840 --> 00:56:39.639
and stuff, that's generally how those kinds of relationships happen.

1034
00:56:39.960 --> 00:56:42.400
It isn't the mother going like I just need no,

1035
00:56:42.480 --> 00:56:45.639
it's them just going like I, oh, the car is

1036
00:56:45.679 --> 00:56:48.119
so dirty, and like I don't even where do we

1037
00:56:48.239 --> 00:56:49.920
keep the hose? And all of a sudden it's like

1038
00:56:49.960 --> 00:56:53.480
you're making your child be the man of the house

1039
00:56:53.519 --> 00:56:56.920
when they're not done being a child, and you're making

1040
00:56:56.960 --> 00:57:00.320
them take a caregiver role over you, which is even worse.

1041
00:57:00.440 --> 00:57:03.599
Yeah, because it's it's parentifying the child.

1042
00:57:03.840 --> 00:57:05.760
I like that word. If it is a word, it

1043
00:57:05.800 --> 00:57:06.360
is now.

1044
00:57:09.039 --> 00:57:10.360
I don't know. Maybe I read it somewhere.

1045
00:57:10.360 --> 00:57:11.880
It might it probably is a word. I just I

1046
00:57:11.920 --> 00:57:13.960
just love what I'm like. That's a great word. If

1047
00:57:13.960 --> 00:57:17.639
it is a word, I like it regardless. But no, so, yeah,

1048
00:57:17.639 --> 00:57:18.360
he invites them to.

1049
00:57:18.280 --> 00:57:22.519
Dinner, invites him to dinner. So Stephen kind of agrees.

1050
00:57:22.679 --> 00:57:25.599
It's not even reluctantly. He's just like, Okay, y'all come

1051
00:57:25.639 --> 00:57:28.559
to dinner, but please don't call my home at like

1052
00:57:28.639 --> 00:57:29.360
one in the morning.

1053
00:57:29.639 --> 00:57:31.519
Yeah, like you know, you can't call me the slate.

1054
00:57:31.599 --> 00:57:33.960
Yeah, it's it's we're trying to go to sleep, you know.

1055
00:57:34.719 --> 00:57:36.480
So it's not bad, it's just in his.

1056
00:57:36.599 --> 00:57:39.880
Response to any boundaries he puts up is to ignore them.

1057
00:57:40.000 --> 00:57:40.199
Yeah.

1058
00:57:40.199 --> 00:57:42.280
Absolutely, Because at one point he says, like, I'd like

1059
00:57:42.360 --> 00:57:43.920
to do that, like we'll do it soon, and he

1060
00:57:43.960 --> 00:57:46.239
says tomorrow night, and he just tells him the time

1061
00:57:46.320 --> 00:57:47.079
that it's happening.

1062
00:57:47.400 --> 00:57:53.280
Yeah, that's not cool, bro, because he just keeps pushing yeah,

1063
00:57:53.280 --> 00:57:53.519
and he.

1064
00:57:53.480 --> 00:57:55.280
Says like I already told my mother she'll you know,

1065
00:57:55.320 --> 00:57:57.800
dinner will be ready by seven, seven thirty ish.

1066
00:57:58.800 --> 00:58:01.880
Yeah, And he's even late out that his plans for

1067
00:58:01.920 --> 00:58:03.440
the days, like, well, I get out of school at

1068
00:58:03.440 --> 00:58:04.920
three and then I've got this to do it four

1069
00:58:05.000 --> 00:58:06.480
and then I get home at five and I've got

1070
00:58:06.480 --> 00:58:08.639
to take a shower. So if you show up at seven, dinner,

1071
00:58:08.639 --> 00:58:14.320
we'll be ready. So the next day, Steven's getting in

1072
00:58:14.360 --> 00:58:16.719
his car and as he's driving away in the garage,

1073
00:58:16.760 --> 00:58:18.480
he thinks he sees Martin.

1074
00:58:18.880 --> 00:58:19.079
Yeah.

1075
00:58:19.400 --> 00:58:22.480
So he's you know, even tries to confront Martin about

1076
00:58:22.519 --> 00:58:24.320
it when they are at dinner, like why did you

1077
00:58:24.519 --> 00:58:26.800
why did you come by the hospital without calling? And

1078
00:58:26.840 --> 00:58:28.880
Martin says, oh, that wasn't me. That couldn't have been me.

1079
00:58:28.920 --> 00:58:30.880
I was, you know, doing the thing I told you

1080
00:58:30.960 --> 00:58:32.679
I was going to be doing it for. But we

1081
00:58:32.760 --> 00:58:38.320
clearly saw Martin. Yes, So we are starting to get

1082
00:58:39.119 --> 00:58:43.159
the tone that, yes, Martin is bad news. And it

1083
00:58:43.239 --> 00:58:52.480
gets even more clear when Steven's having dinner with Martin

1084
00:58:52.679 --> 00:58:57.000
and his mom and they're trying to get Stephen to

1085
00:58:57.000 --> 00:58:58.960
stay even later, and they're like, oh, well, you can

1086
00:58:58.960 --> 00:59:00.920
watch this movie like it's going to be on TV.

1087
00:59:01.199 --> 00:59:03.920
And it's Martin's favorite movie of all time. You should

1088
00:59:03.960 --> 00:59:04.559
say the.

1089
00:59:04.519 --> 00:59:06.559
Big press is that Martin keeps say it's my favorite

1090
00:59:06.559 --> 00:59:09.280
movie of all time. And I want to mention also

1091
00:59:09.320 --> 00:59:12.400
Martin's mother portrayed by Alicia Silverstone. Really cool to see

1092
00:59:12.400 --> 00:59:14.159
her popping back up. This was right at the beginning

1093
00:59:14.159 --> 00:59:17.679
of her coming back on the scene and really establishing

1094
00:59:17.679 --> 00:59:21.599
herself as a great mom character actor. Yeah, that's her

1095
00:59:21.639 --> 00:59:24.119
age range now. I mean people my age remember seeing

1096
00:59:24.159 --> 00:59:28.000
her in Clueless and The Crush and all these great

1097
00:59:28.159 --> 00:59:30.639
nineties and early two thousands movies. Really cool to see

1098
00:59:30.639 --> 00:59:33.159
her in this, and she is playing somebody who is

1099
00:59:33.239 --> 00:59:36.239
just a little funny, yeah, just off, a little off.

1100
00:59:36.880 --> 00:59:39.360
And what's interesting is she's one of the few people

1101
00:59:39.480 --> 00:59:42.360
who does not have that flat effect in the movie.

1102
00:59:43.000 --> 00:59:49.400
She's I would not she is by no means very

1103
00:59:49.880 --> 00:59:55.320
like flamboyant, but by comparison, she feels very flamboyant with

1104
00:59:55.360 --> 00:59:56.199
everyone else.

1105
00:59:56.159 --> 00:59:58.119
Well, and honestly, I think that her big thing is

1106
00:59:58.159 --> 01:00:01.639
that she is just quiet, yeah, in comparison to everybody

1107
01:00:01.639 --> 01:00:05.400
else who just constantly says exactly what they're thinking in

1108
01:00:05.440 --> 01:00:09.079
that moment. She's much more reserved. Almost nobody's reserved in

1109
01:00:09.159 --> 01:00:09.840
this movie.

1110
01:00:09.960 --> 01:00:14.159
Well, she's very reserved until after they start the movie,

1111
01:00:14.400 --> 01:00:17.000
and then Martin says, it's getting late, so I need

1112
01:00:17.039 --> 01:00:17.920
to go to bed, So.

1113
01:00:18.159 --> 01:00:20.639
The gates his entire argument that he wants you to

1114
01:00:20.679 --> 01:00:22.679
watch the movie. And also when he had said he

1115
01:00:22.719 --> 01:00:26.880
needed to, you know, it's getting late, his mother says like, well,

1116
01:00:26.920 --> 01:00:28.599
you could call, you could tell them you're going to

1117
01:00:28.599 --> 01:00:30.400
be later. You could watch it and if you get tired,

1118
01:00:30.440 --> 01:00:31.800
you could go home and we could finish it the

1119
01:00:31.800 --> 01:00:35.079
next time you come over. Like she's like hitting him

1120
01:00:35.199 --> 01:00:38.159
so hard. Yeah, all of these like please do it,

1121
01:00:38.519 --> 01:00:42.400
And then him going up to bed leaves them aloneardly

1122
01:00:42.519 --> 01:00:45.840
on the couch together watching this movie. And what happens

1123
01:00:45.960 --> 01:00:49.599
next honestly won't probably surprise you, but we'll get to

1124
01:00:49.639 --> 01:01:05.960
that right after this. So now our man Stephen is

1125
01:01:06.000 --> 01:01:09.199
on the couch with Alicia Silverstone, who, by the way,

1126
01:01:09.280 --> 01:01:13.119
I double checked during the break her credit Martin's mother,

1127
01:01:14.360 --> 01:01:17.760
so I was correct in saying Martin's mom, goddamn right,

1128
01:01:17.760 --> 01:01:18.079
you were.

1129
01:01:19.119 --> 01:01:21.679
So they're sitting on the couch together, and it's a

1130
01:01:21.760 --> 01:01:25.119
little awkward, a little bit, just a little bit, and

1131
01:01:25.119 --> 01:01:27.719
then she looks down and she mentions how much she

1132
01:01:27.840 --> 01:01:33.280
loves Stephen's hands because they're so white and.

1133
01:01:33.320 --> 01:01:35.599
Perfect and beautiful, clean.

1134
01:01:35.639 --> 01:01:38.760
And clean, and she even says like, I love doctor's

1135
01:01:38.840 --> 01:01:42.280
hands because they're so clean, and you're like, okay, this

1136
01:01:42.360 --> 01:01:43.199
is weird.

1137
01:01:43.360 --> 01:01:45.679
Well, she even references like I noticed your hands when

1138
01:01:45.679 --> 01:01:46.760
my husband and I.

1139
01:01:46.719 --> 01:01:51.199
Were we're inspital the time, in the hospital, so we start.

1140
01:01:51.679 --> 01:01:54.079
That's the thing what I really like about this film

1141
01:01:54.159 --> 01:01:58.079
is as awkward as this is, and as much as

1142
01:01:58.119 --> 01:02:02.199
this moment is kind of moving things forward on what's

1143
01:02:02.239 --> 01:02:05.719
going on that night, it is also revealing to us

1144
01:02:05.880 --> 01:02:09.800
a lot of their backstory or how they know each other,

1145
01:02:09.920 --> 01:02:14.639
which ties into how the father died, because she does

1146
01:02:14.760 --> 01:02:17.360
mention that they saw each other a lot, which.

1147
01:02:17.159 --> 01:02:20.719
Means now we're revealing that he was an ongoing patient

1148
01:02:21.639 --> 01:02:26.920
of Stephen, not somebody he saw because they were an emergency.

1149
01:02:27.280 --> 01:02:30.679
No, it's it's someone they saw numerous times. And she

1150
01:02:30.760 --> 01:02:34.880
even mentions that she's lost weight since then, and that

1151
01:02:34.960 --> 01:02:37.079
her hair used to be a certain color and now

1152
01:02:37.079 --> 01:02:39.880
it's different, and she's asking what does he think about

1153
01:02:39.880 --> 01:02:43.320
all these changes, and he's like, well, you look good,

1154
01:02:43.320 --> 01:02:46.480
I guess, and that color does suit you. So he's

1155
01:02:46.519 --> 01:02:47.440
trying to be nice.

1156
01:02:47.559 --> 01:02:50.880
It's desperately trying to be nice. My gosh.

1157
01:02:51.239 --> 01:02:54.880
So then she picks up his hand and just starts

1158
01:02:55.119 --> 01:02:57.639
deep throating his thumb as one does.

1159
01:02:57.880 --> 01:03:01.199
I mean, you know, she kisses it one time before

1160
01:03:01.199 --> 01:03:05.079
she literally puts his thumb down her damn throat. And

1161
01:03:05.199 --> 01:03:11.400
he's trying so hard to handle this with grace before

1162
01:03:11.400 --> 01:03:13.639
he finally just rips his hand away from saying I

1163
01:03:13.719 --> 01:03:17.039
have to go. I I mean, you know, the fact

1164
01:03:17.039 --> 01:03:19.079
that he didn't say at school, what is wrong with you?

1165
01:03:19.920 --> 01:03:19.960
Is?

1166
01:03:21.039 --> 01:03:22.119
Is impressive.

1167
01:03:22.199 --> 01:03:25.360
It very is. It very much is. And it's interesting

1168
01:03:25.440 --> 01:03:30.039
because we start to see how this character deals with

1169
01:03:30.119 --> 01:03:33.760
stress and stressful situations, and we realize more and more

1170
01:03:33.800 --> 01:03:37.239
and more that he does. As much as he tries

1171
01:03:37.280 --> 01:03:41.000
to protect his family from his emotions, they're also the

1172
01:03:41.039 --> 01:03:45.000
only ones he is ever comfortable with revealing his emotions

1173
01:03:45.039 --> 01:03:45.480
as well.

1174
01:03:45.840 --> 01:03:50.239
Well. And I think comfort but also appropriateness. Yeah, you know,

1175
01:03:50.280 --> 01:03:52.679
I think that we don't see he doesn't have a

1176
01:03:52.679 --> 01:03:57.480
lot of friends. No, he has the doctor friend. He

1177
01:03:57.519 --> 01:03:59.760
has some colleagues, and then he has his family and

1178
01:03:59.800 --> 01:04:01.960
he's extremely close with his.

1179
01:04:01.880 --> 01:04:08.679
Family, extremely so he you know, it gets away. He

1180
01:04:08.719 --> 01:04:11.880
gets out of there, and the next day Martin shows

1181
01:04:11.960 --> 01:04:16.440
up and he comes to the hospital to tell Stephen

1182
01:04:16.519 --> 01:04:19.719
that he's not feeling right and he feels he's got

1183
01:04:19.719 --> 01:04:24.519
heart disease. So he's not even like mentioning last night

1184
01:04:24.559 --> 01:04:27.760
at all. He doesn't bring it up. That was not

1185
01:04:27.840 --> 01:04:32.320
seen in any way as inappropriate to just leave none

1186
01:04:32.360 --> 01:04:36.480
of that. And this is where we finally get the

1187
01:04:36.559 --> 01:04:40.719
truth about what happens to Martin. Martin's dad. You know,

1188
01:04:40.800 --> 01:04:45.599
he mentioned that his dad ate healthy and that he

1189
01:04:45.719 --> 01:04:49.519
was always exercising, never never smoked, and that's when he

1190
01:04:49.599 --> 01:04:52.719
admits to Stephen, He's like, I've been smoking and I

1191
01:04:52.760 --> 01:04:55.280
don't do all these other things, and I can feel

1192
01:04:55.280 --> 01:04:58.199
my heart, you know, it just doesn't feel right. And

1193
01:04:58.199 --> 01:05:02.400
and Stephen says, well, you're per perfectly healthy, you're fine,

1194
01:05:02.519 --> 01:05:04.599
and that's when Martin says, well, that's what you told

1195
01:05:04.639 --> 01:05:07.480
my dad, and he still died on the operating room

1196
01:05:08.559 --> 01:05:12.239
and nobody should have died from that. So now we've

1197
01:05:12.280 --> 01:05:20.239
got a much much clearer picture of what happened, but

1198
01:05:20.320 --> 01:05:22.800
it still doesn't quite add up, because again, a healthy

1199
01:05:22.840 --> 01:05:27.679
person should just wake up from a heart surgery, you know,

1200
01:05:28.559 --> 01:05:34.159
relatively easily. So to kind of placate him, they run

1201
01:05:34.239 --> 01:05:40.440
tests on Martin and everything's fine, and they're sitting there

1202
01:05:40.480 --> 01:05:45.480
talking and Stephen makes him promise to quit smoking, but says,

1203
01:05:45.480 --> 01:05:47.639
you know, otherwise, you've got a clean bill of health.

1204
01:05:48.400 --> 01:05:50.920
You know, you're probably just under some stress or something.

1205
01:05:51.639 --> 01:05:57.559
And that's when Martin invites him back to dinner, like again,

1206
01:05:57.760 --> 01:05:59.239
like nothing happened.

1207
01:06:00.199 --> 01:06:02.920
That night, Yeah, for that night, not even next week.

1208
01:06:03.000 --> 01:06:04.840
Yeah, just like, how about you come over tonight. My

1209
01:06:04.880 --> 01:06:06.360
mom's ready and waiting.

1210
01:06:06.519 --> 01:06:08.480
Yeah, clearly, he says, like I can't. He's like, my

1211
01:06:08.519 --> 01:06:11.360
mother will be upset, you know. It's like, uh, sure

1212
01:06:11.400 --> 01:06:12.480
she will be Jesus.

1213
01:06:13.519 --> 01:06:17.280
So Stephen does decline. He's like, nah, I've I've got

1214
01:06:17.320 --> 01:06:19.840
to go, you know, I've got something something else to do.

1215
01:06:19.880 --> 01:06:24.960
And that's when we do see Stephen with his friend Matthew,

1216
01:06:25.119 --> 01:06:28.719
the anesthesiologist, and we do see them, you know, talking,

1217
01:06:29.239 --> 01:06:32.719
and they're all kind of you know again, it's they're

1218
01:06:32.760 --> 01:06:36.360
talking about like medical stuff, but they're still having fun.

1219
01:06:36.360 --> 01:06:38.199
They're having a good time, and they're over you know,

1220
01:06:38.280 --> 01:06:42.119
grilling out and Matthew kind of drops that he saw

1221
01:06:42.679 --> 01:06:46.400
Martin at the hospital, and Stephen, you know, is taken aback,

1222
01:06:46.440 --> 01:06:49.079
but he's like, you know, that can't be because he's

1223
01:06:49.159 --> 01:06:51.960
promised me that he won't come by unless he's called

1224
01:06:51.960 --> 01:06:55.199
me first. And Matthew's like, okay, but I'm just letting

1225
01:06:55.239 --> 01:06:58.280
you know what I saw, Like I did see him

1226
01:06:58.599 --> 01:07:05.320
at the hospital the other day. And that's when I

1227
01:07:05.599 --> 01:07:08.960
feel like that was one of those scenes that was

1228
01:07:09.039 --> 01:07:14.480
a little revealing because we see that, we see that

1229
01:07:14.519 --> 01:07:21.960
Stephen wants to believe in Martin. Yeah, and there's enough there,

1230
01:07:22.079 --> 01:07:28.039
enough history there, and enough guilt that he really doesn't

1231
01:07:28.079 --> 01:07:30.840
want to believe that Martin could do wrong.

1232
01:07:31.880 --> 01:07:34.599
I could see that for sure, which I.

1233
01:07:34.559 --> 01:07:39.440
Think that that is one of the things, one of

1234
01:07:39.440 --> 01:07:44.400
the redeeming characters or redeeming qualities of this character a

1235
01:07:44.440 --> 01:07:46.519
way that kind of makes us feel bad for him

1236
01:07:46.559 --> 01:07:50.119
a little bit through everything that goes on, is he

1237
01:07:50.960 --> 01:07:54.039
wasn't acting purely out of guilt. A lot of it

1238
01:07:54.239 --> 01:07:59.039
was just him trying in his own way to step

1239
01:07:59.159 --> 01:08:02.679
up and do the right thing now that something terrible

1240
01:08:02.719 --> 01:08:09.960
has happened. He was trying to be you know, accountable

1241
01:08:09.960 --> 01:08:12.199
for his actions in his own way, which was just

1242
01:08:12.840 --> 01:08:17.319
to step up and be this father figure to this kid.

1243
01:08:18.600 --> 01:08:23.680
So after that visit, when and again this this movie

1244
01:08:23.720 --> 01:08:26.680
like it kind of each scene is its own thing,

1245
01:08:26.840 --> 01:08:29.960
and there's not a lot of lead up between different scenes.

1246
01:08:30.479 --> 01:08:35.640
So now we're back home and Kim gets home late,

1247
01:08:37.079 --> 01:08:41.600
and at first she's kind of a little bit dodgy

1248
01:08:41.800 --> 01:08:46.199
with her with her mom and her dad, because I'm

1249
01:08:46.239 --> 01:08:50.720
pretty certain that's was that scene just with her dad

1250
01:08:50.800 --> 01:08:53.119
or was it with her mom and her dad, Because

1251
01:08:53.159 --> 01:08:58.039
she finally admits that she was late because choir practice

1252
01:08:58.279 --> 01:09:02.439
went late, but Martin brought her home on her mother, Okay,

1253
01:09:02.520 --> 01:09:06.560
So she she does admit to him like, okay, Martin

1254
01:09:06.600 --> 01:09:10.720
brought me home on a motorcycle, but all of us

1255
01:09:10.760 --> 01:09:14.159
having been teenagers, but me in particular having been a

1256
01:09:14.199 --> 01:09:18.159
teenage girl, Like, she wasn't late because choir practice went late.

1257
01:09:18.199 --> 01:09:21.119
She's late because she was hanging out with Martin. Yeah,

1258
01:09:21.119 --> 01:09:24.760
and she's trying to make it okay. And her dad

1259
01:09:25.239 --> 01:09:28.000
isn't necessarily upset that she was hanging out with Martin.

1260
01:09:28.039 --> 01:09:30.479
He's just more upset that she wasn't wearing a helmet

1261
01:09:30.560 --> 01:09:32.079
when they were riding a bike and she's like, no,

1262
01:09:32.319 --> 01:09:34.680
I was wearing a helmet, like Martin gave me his.

1263
01:09:35.680 --> 01:09:38.680
And this is when we really start to see how

1264
01:09:38.760 --> 01:09:41.840
much of an effect that Martin is having on her.

1265
01:09:42.359 --> 01:09:46.199
But we also really just do start to realize, like, okay,

1266
01:09:46.279 --> 01:09:48.600
Martin is way off the deep end, because that's when

1267
01:09:48.640 --> 01:09:51.079
Stephen says, well, you should have been polite, you should

1268
01:09:51.079 --> 01:09:54.720
have invited Martin inside, and she says, oh, I did,

1269
01:09:54.760 --> 01:09:56.359
but he says it's getting late, so he's got to

1270
01:09:56.359 --> 01:09:59.039
get home to his mom and so okay, well I'm

1271
01:09:59.039 --> 01:10:02.279
gonna go up to bed, and then we see outside

1272
01:10:02.359 --> 01:10:06.840
that Martin's just sitting in their driveway watching all of

1273
01:10:06.880 --> 01:10:08.119
the lights in the house turn off.

1274
01:10:08.399 --> 01:10:15.960
Yeah, and it doesn't get better from that, kids, but

1275
01:10:16.039 --> 01:10:31.119
we'll find out more about that right after this. So

1276
01:10:31.119 --> 01:10:35.079
so things are getting ready to escalate quite a bit.

1277
01:10:35.319 --> 01:10:39.920
Quite a bit. So I always, especially on the second viewing,

1278
01:10:40.600 --> 01:10:45.000
I found it very interesting that, you know, we see this,

1279
01:10:45.560 --> 01:10:49.479
we see Martin outside in the darkness, watching all the

1280
01:10:49.560 --> 01:10:53.399
lights in the house turn off, and that is the

1281
01:10:53.439 --> 01:10:56.319
point in the movie where it goes dark, and like

1282
01:10:57.800 --> 01:11:02.520
it gets very dark, very fast and gets very very intense.

1283
01:11:03.319 --> 01:11:07.960
You know that first lead up. The first act, you know,

1284
01:11:08.239 --> 01:11:10.880
was kind of light and we're just kind of meeting

1285
01:11:10.880 --> 01:11:13.560
the characters and we're kind of figuring out what's going on,

1286
01:11:13.680 --> 01:11:16.640
and then from here on out it's totally different. So

1287
01:11:16.760 --> 01:11:21.560
the next day, you know, Stephen and Anna are in

1288
01:11:21.600 --> 01:11:24.840
the kitchen talking and then she kind of just mentions like, oh,

1289
01:11:24.880 --> 01:11:27.199
Bob's still up in bed, and he says, oh, well,

1290
01:11:27.239 --> 01:11:29.239
he's only got ten minutes to get ready for school

1291
01:11:29.279 --> 01:11:31.159
and get out the door. He needs to get up

1292
01:11:31.159 --> 01:11:33.560
out of bed now. And this is where we start

1293
01:11:33.600 --> 01:11:37.800
to see Steven's temper because he's, you know, in his

1294
01:11:38.000 --> 01:11:41.479
mind it's just his kids being lazy, so he needs

1295
01:11:41.520 --> 01:11:43.600
to kind of rattle him a little bit. So he's

1296
01:11:43.640 --> 01:11:46.520
you know, already up there, not quite yelling, but definitely

1297
01:11:46.600 --> 01:11:49.720
raising his voice for who this character is saying, you

1298
01:11:49.800 --> 01:11:52.119
only have ten minutes. You have to get out of bed.

1299
01:11:51.920 --> 01:11:53.880
You know, my mother and I aren't going to drive

1300
01:11:53.920 --> 01:11:54.840
you to school today.

1301
01:11:55.279 --> 01:11:57.880
Well, and I think that, if I may, I think

1302
01:11:57.960 --> 01:12:00.920
that part of it is that he's like, what do

1303
01:12:00.960 --> 01:12:04.119
you mean he's still in bed and the mother is like, well,

1304
01:12:04.159 --> 01:12:05.920
he likes to sit in bed for a little while

1305
01:12:05.920 --> 01:12:09.039
before he wakes up, like she's making an excuse. And

1306
01:12:09.079 --> 01:12:11.279
I think that that's what gets his temper to start

1307
01:12:11.319 --> 01:12:14.800
to build up, is he's like, I'm not being listened to. Yeah,

1308
01:12:14.840 --> 01:12:17.920
like I'm being explained to why, but like the kid

1309
01:12:17.960 --> 01:12:20.279
shouldn't be in bed ten minutes before the bus is coming.

1310
01:12:21.600 --> 01:12:23.279
Yeah, we should be all ready now.

1311
01:12:23.399 --> 01:12:25.319
So now he's a little keyed up because you know,

1312
01:12:25.399 --> 01:12:28.720
he's getting told that it's fine when he knows it's not.

1313
01:12:29.319 --> 01:12:32.079
And and he probably knows that he'll end up having

1314
01:12:32.079 --> 01:12:33.840
to drive the kid or whatever, or he's worried he

1315
01:12:33.880 --> 01:12:36.199
will or whatever, you know, but this is a normal

1316
01:12:36.279 --> 01:12:39.920
morning for now, for now, Because then he goes upstairs

1317
01:12:40.439 --> 01:12:43.079
and sees Bob, and Bob is sitting up in bed,

1318
01:12:43.840 --> 01:12:45.960
just sitting there, and he says, you got to get

1319
01:12:45.960 --> 01:12:47.800
out of bed, and he says, I can't get up,

1320
01:12:49.119 --> 01:12:51.880
and he's like, right now, you have ten minutes to

1321
01:12:51.960 --> 01:12:54.319
brush your teeth, eat your breakfast, and get out that door.

1322
01:12:54.920 --> 01:12:57.479
And he's like, I can't get up. And then finally,

1323
01:12:57.479 --> 01:13:00.199
after the third time he tells him, he realizes, wait,

1324
01:13:00.199 --> 01:13:04.239
what do you mean you can't get up? And boom,

1325
01:13:04.359 --> 01:13:06.720
he is paralyzed from the waist down.

1326
01:13:07.319 --> 01:13:11.239
Can't can't feel his legs, can't move his legs. Yes,

1327
01:13:11.359 --> 01:13:16.359
so obviously they immediately rush him to the hospital, to

1328
01:13:16.439 --> 01:13:19.399
the neurology department, and they're immediately running all the tests

1329
01:13:19.439 --> 01:13:22.920
because not only you know, are parents concerned, but again,

1330
01:13:23.000 --> 01:13:24.520
you and I were talking about it, like, it's got

1331
01:13:24.560 --> 01:13:28.119
to be even more scary being a medical family, Yeah,

1332
01:13:28.720 --> 01:13:32.039
because the unknown. Being afraid of the unknown is one thing,

1333
01:13:32.239 --> 01:13:36.439
but then being afraid of the known is a totally

1334
01:13:36.439 --> 01:13:39.840
different thing. So if you're a doctor, you're going through

1335
01:13:39.960 --> 01:13:43.640
all the weird cases you've heard about recently, all the

1336
01:13:43.680 --> 01:13:47.520
odd things that you know could be going on, all

1337
01:13:47.600 --> 01:13:51.479
the you know, all of the different diagnoses that kids

1338
01:13:51.520 --> 01:13:54.079
can't get until later in life because it doesn't start

1339
01:13:54.119 --> 01:13:57.399
expressing like another parent is just gonna be my kid

1340
01:13:57.479 --> 01:13:59.920
is sick and I'm just worried, and a doctor's going

1341
01:14:00.119 --> 01:14:02.239
to be sitting there thinking my kid is sick and

1342
01:14:02.319 --> 01:14:04.720
here's XYZ what it could be.

1343
01:14:04.840 --> 01:14:07.640
But on the other side of that, if you're a

1344
01:14:07.680 --> 01:14:10.359
doctor and I feel like this somewhat explains Steven's actions

1345
01:14:10.439 --> 01:14:14.800
until things escalate, you also know how many times people

1346
01:14:14.840 --> 01:14:17.960
come into the hospital and it's nothing. Yeah, like it's

1347
01:14:18.079 --> 01:14:21.079
literally a fluke, you know, it was literally what you

1348
01:14:21.319 --> 01:14:25.800
ate or or something like that. So his attitude is like,

1349
01:14:25.800 --> 01:14:27.239
we're going to run these tests, we're gonna make sure

1350
01:14:27.239 --> 01:14:29.239
everything's okay, but but he's going to go home. Ye,

1351
01:14:29.399 --> 01:14:32.039
like he's going to be fine. So it's it's kind

1352
01:14:32.039 --> 01:14:36.680
of like a cynical positivity almost, you know that He's like,

1353
01:14:36.800 --> 01:14:39.680
I see tons of people every single day who literally

1354
01:14:39.720 --> 01:14:41.960
nothing is wrong with them, mm hmm, but they came

1355
01:14:42.000 --> 01:14:45.239
in here scared or worried. So I'm not going to

1356
01:14:45.239 --> 01:14:47.399
be scared or worried. I'm going to be a doctor

1357
01:14:47.479 --> 01:14:50.000
about it. Yes, And I felt like that was a

1358
01:14:50.039 --> 01:14:54.399
really interesting dichotomy too, because I know, we keep teasing

1359
01:14:54.560 --> 01:14:57.319
like things are about to change massively, and in my opinion,

1360
01:14:57.439 --> 01:15:00.560
his motivation is about to change massively as well. But

1361
01:15:00.720 --> 01:15:03.359
right now he's still pretty much the character we've gotten

1362
01:15:03.399 --> 01:15:03.680
to know.

1363
01:15:04.920 --> 01:15:08.880
So again the character that we that we've gotten to know.

1364
01:15:09.640 --> 01:15:12.520
After they run all these tests, everything comes back good,

1365
01:15:12.960 --> 01:15:16.880
like there's there's nothing abnormal, there's nothing going on, and

1366
01:15:17.079 --> 01:15:19.520
you know, the doctors are kind of settling on maybe,

1367
01:15:19.560 --> 01:15:23.199
you know, maybe it's stress, but it's probably something psychosmatic.

1368
01:15:23.920 --> 01:15:26.800
And Anna the mother. She's a bit more like, well,

1369
01:15:26.800 --> 01:15:31.800
that could make sense, but I would like him to

1370
01:15:31.840 --> 01:15:35.520
stay in the hospital one more day, just to be sure,

1371
01:15:35.720 --> 01:15:38.800
just to be sure that he's here somewhere where he

1372
01:15:38.800 --> 01:15:41.840
can get immediate care if he needs it. And Steven's

1373
01:15:41.840 --> 01:15:44.479
more like, well, no, if the test came back good,

1374
01:15:45.199 --> 01:15:47.439
then why should he be here. Send him home. So

1375
01:15:49.000 --> 01:15:53.000
he sends his family home. You know, his son's able

1376
01:15:53.000 --> 01:15:54.520
to walk. He's fine now.

1377
01:15:54.920 --> 01:15:57.600
And the way they depict this sceni're about to describe,

1378
01:15:57.640 --> 01:16:01.079
because he decides to stay at work. Yeah, and he's like,

1379
01:16:01.239 --> 01:16:03.520
just go rest, you know, let our kid rest and whatever.

1380
01:16:03.960 --> 01:16:06.800
And they show this incredible bird's eye view of the

1381
01:16:06.840 --> 01:16:10.279
lobby of the hospital, and as the mother and Bob

1382
01:16:10.439 --> 01:16:14.000
get down to the bottom of the escalator, they take

1383
01:16:14.000 --> 01:16:16.760
a couple of steps and he just collapses again. And

1384
01:16:16.800 --> 01:16:21.119
it made me gasp because it was so effective and

1385
01:16:21.159 --> 01:16:25.960
I was so worried already. Really incredible moment.

1386
01:16:25.640 --> 01:16:31.840
In the film, and it helps amp up the tension astronomically, yeah,

1387
01:16:31.880 --> 01:16:34.960
because you start to realize that this is what the

1388
01:16:35.000 --> 01:16:36.800
stakes are at this point.

1389
01:16:36.880 --> 01:16:39.479
Well, and during all of the testing, during all of

1390
01:16:39.479 --> 01:16:45.600
those moments they the music is not only tense and threatening,

1391
01:16:46.039 --> 01:16:50.479
but it's louder than the dialogue purposefully hm, because what

1392
01:16:50.600 --> 01:16:53.960
they're saying doesn't matter. As an audience, we're telling you

1393
01:16:54.520 --> 01:16:59.600
this is bad. This is really really bad. Nobody in

1394
01:16:59.640 --> 01:17:05.039
the scene knows, but you know this is bad. And

1395
01:17:05.119 --> 01:17:07.760
I really love that element too, when I realized that

1396
01:17:07.760 --> 01:17:10.560
the music was kind of shrieking fear at me while

1397
01:17:10.560 --> 01:17:13.239
they're talking about basic things like saying, can you put

1398
01:17:13.279 --> 01:17:15.319
your heels together? Do you feel that? Do you whatever?

1399
01:17:15.439 --> 01:17:19.159
But they're like, I'm like, uh, this is bad news, man,

1400
01:17:19.359 --> 01:17:19.880
I'm scared.

1401
01:17:20.399 --> 01:17:23.479
Yeah, it was. It was great. And then to tie

1402
01:17:23.520 --> 01:17:27.399
it together to kind of juxtapose it a little bit,

1403
01:17:28.159 --> 01:17:33.000
We've still got that jarring, screeching music going on, but

1404
01:17:33.239 --> 01:17:37.119
now it's Kim and Martin going on a joy ride

1405
01:17:37.159 --> 01:17:41.159
on the motorcycle around the town and she's clearly crying.

1406
01:17:41.319 --> 01:17:46.119
She's clearly worried for her brother. Yeah, but the person

1407
01:17:46.199 --> 01:17:49.439
that she goes to for comfort is Martin.

1408
01:17:50.000 --> 01:17:52.720
Well, and a lot of that makes sense because, like

1409
01:17:52.760 --> 01:18:00.159
I said thematically, her beginning puberty. Lots of familial strife

1410
01:18:00.720 --> 01:18:01.840
starts at puberty.

1411
01:18:03.239 --> 01:18:07.359
H No, absolutely, whether boy or girl, No, because that's

1412
01:18:07.399 --> 01:18:11.199
when you're you're you're breaking out and you're learning who

1413
01:18:11.279 --> 01:18:15.680
you are, and you're learning who you are outside of

1414
01:18:15.720 --> 01:18:18.760
your family, which is an important, an important lesson.

1415
01:18:18.840 --> 01:18:21.319
Yeah, that's a kind way to put I mean, you're

1416
01:18:21.359 --> 01:18:26.840
also being pumped full of hormones, chemicals that literally make

1417
01:18:26.920 --> 01:18:29.399
you act a certain way, even if you're not really

1418
01:18:29.479 --> 01:18:33.239
thinking that way. They push you and shift you and

1419
01:18:33.319 --> 01:18:36.840
change your perspective, you know, And and for it to

1420
01:18:36.880 --> 01:18:39.560
be so new to her and for her to suddenly

1421
01:18:39.560 --> 01:18:41.920
be like, I like this, boy, my parents are kind

1422
01:18:41.920 --> 01:18:46.439
of annoying right now. It's very normal teenage girl stuff. Yeah,

1423
01:18:46.439 --> 01:18:48.600
it's just very normal for a teenage girl.

1424
01:18:52.720 --> 01:18:58.239
When Kim gets back her mom, is this this weird scene.

1425
01:18:58.279 --> 01:19:01.239
Her mom is out in the dead of night, is

1426
01:19:01.279 --> 01:19:04.039
out watering the garden, but she's like literally standing in

1427
01:19:04.079 --> 01:19:05.359
the middle of the bushes.

1428
01:19:05.039 --> 01:19:07.880
Which yeah, I found that really off putting. She's standing

1429
01:19:07.960 --> 01:19:10.760
in the middle of the garden watering around herself basically.

1430
01:19:10.560 --> 01:19:12.840
And smoking a cigarette, which we start to see that

1431
01:19:12.920 --> 01:19:16.960
smoking cigarettes, it may not necessarily be a symbol, but

1432
01:19:17.039 --> 01:19:21.560
it's definitely a theme that runs that as people are

1433
01:19:21.680 --> 01:19:26.640
influenced by Martin more and more, they eventually start smoking cigarette.

1434
01:19:26.239 --> 01:19:28.800
Yeah, I was. I think I agree with you more.

1435
01:19:28.840 --> 01:19:30.479
My initial thought was that it was a sign of

1436
01:19:30.520 --> 01:19:36.199
loss of control. Yeah, but the young girl, Kim was

1437
01:19:36.239 --> 01:19:38.680
not out of control. She was just influence. So I

1438
01:19:38.680 --> 01:19:43.359
think you're right. I think it's Martin's influence. As it's

1439
01:19:43.079 --> 01:19:48.319
as the grasp is being handled to all these people, inevitably,

1440
01:19:48.359 --> 01:19:51.359
basically everybody except Bob ends up smoking a cigarette.

1441
01:19:51.600 --> 01:19:56.199
Yeah, pretty much. So she's out there smoking a cigarette

1442
01:19:56.239 --> 01:20:00.600
awkwardly and they have a very awkward conversation about you know, Bob,

1443
01:20:01.119 --> 01:20:05.520
and of course he's going to get better. But Kim

1444
01:20:05.600 --> 01:20:08.119
asks like, have you been feeling stressed? Have you been

1445
01:20:08.159 --> 01:20:12.279
feeling fatigued? Which is a very odd question, but she

1446
01:20:12.840 --> 01:20:16.039
keeps asking her family like, have you been feeling fatigued?

1447
01:20:16.600 --> 01:20:20.560
And that we don't start realizing until a little bit

1448
01:20:20.640 --> 01:20:24.319
later what that means. But that's also Kim being influenced

1449
01:20:24.319 --> 01:20:24.880
by Martin.

1450
01:20:25.159 --> 01:20:27.239
I didn't even think about that, because.

1451
01:20:27.000 --> 01:20:31.560
She's she's the one that even starts talking about everyone

1452
01:20:31.600 --> 01:20:35.399
else getting sick in in ways in subtle hints, yeah,

1453
01:20:35.439 --> 01:20:38.319
before it even is revealed, like that could.

1454
01:20:38.079 --> 01:20:41.439
Be a possibilityy, I not. I didn't catch that at all. Yeah,

1455
01:20:41.479 --> 01:20:42.479
you're totally right.

1456
01:20:42.840 --> 01:20:45.439
And her mom obviously like, no, no, this is just

1457
01:20:45.760 --> 01:20:48.600
you know, this is whatever. I'm just worried about about

1458
01:20:48.600 --> 01:20:56.279
your brother. And the next day that's when Stephen and

1459
01:20:56.319 --> 01:21:03.159
Anne Anna are discussing Bob and what's going on with him,

1460
01:21:04.000 --> 01:21:07.800
and Martin is in the room with him and they

1461
01:21:07.920 --> 01:21:09.239
and he's.

1462
01:21:09.199 --> 01:21:11.520
He was there when they arrived, he was visiting with.

1463
01:21:11.640 --> 01:21:13.960
Yeah, he was. He was there with Bob, which again

1464
01:21:14.079 --> 01:21:18.800
is sweet, but also with the clues that we've been

1465
01:21:18.840 --> 01:21:21.439
getting very off putting.

1466
01:21:21.439 --> 01:21:26.520
Boundaries, no respect for boundaries, family member, you should not

1467
01:21:26.560 --> 01:21:27.960
be the first one here seeing him.

1468
01:21:28.560 --> 01:21:33.920
And he mentions that Bob hasn't gone to the bathroom yet,

1469
01:21:34.119 --> 01:21:36.840
and he offered to do it, but very disappointed that

1470
01:21:37.479 --> 01:21:39.760
Bob wouldn't wasn't comfortable with it.

1471
01:21:39.840 --> 01:21:41.159
Well, and then he peed the bed.

1472
01:21:41.079 --> 01:21:43.000
And then he peed the bed, and he wants to

1473
01:21:43.119 --> 01:21:48.439
drive home that because Bob wasn't comfortable with him helping

1474
01:21:48.520 --> 01:21:52.159
him pee. He peed the bed. So, yeah, the boundaries

1475
01:21:52.199 --> 01:21:54.279
are just not there.

1476
01:21:55.000 --> 01:21:58.680
They're about to get way way more not there, and

1477
01:21:58.720 --> 01:22:00.479
we're going to talk about that right now after this.

1478
01:22:12.319 --> 01:22:15.840
All right, So we're in the hospital with Bob. We've

1479
01:22:15.880 --> 01:22:19.640
just had another of many awkward interactions with Martin.

1480
01:22:19.960 --> 01:22:23.920
M So Martin in the room, he mentions to Stephen

1481
01:22:24.000 --> 01:22:26.279
that it doesn't matter when, but he's going to be

1482
01:22:26.319 --> 01:22:28.800
waiting up in the cafeteria upstairs. He'd like to meet

1483
01:22:28.800 --> 01:22:32.680
with him, and Steven's like, really trying to brush him off, now,

1484
01:22:32.760 --> 01:22:36.119
brush him off gently, especially since he just showed up

1485
01:22:36.119 --> 01:22:41.079
in his son's hospital room. Yeah, that's not cool, bro.

1486
01:22:42.119 --> 01:22:44.000
So he's like, no, I've got a lot of meetings.

1487
01:22:44.039 --> 01:22:46.279
I'm really I really don't have the time, and Steven

1488
01:22:46.319 --> 01:22:48.920
and sis or Martin insists like, no, it's not going

1489
01:22:48.960 --> 01:22:51.359
to take much time, and I have something for you.

1490
01:22:51.479 --> 01:22:53.840
I'd really like to meet with you. So they go

1491
01:22:53.880 --> 01:22:57.800
to meet in this cafeteria and Martin gives him his gift,

1492
01:22:57.920 --> 01:23:00.720
and before Stephen even opens that, he tells him it's

1493
01:23:00.720 --> 01:23:03.079
a Swiss army. I ruined it. That the surprise for you,

1494
01:23:03.439 --> 01:23:06.479
which just tells you the level of the tism that

1495
01:23:06.520 --> 01:23:11.680
this character has. Ye But then he reveals that he's

1496
01:23:12.079 --> 01:23:19.720
got something much more important to talk about, and he

1497
01:23:20.279 --> 01:23:25.560
doesn't he doesn't try to introduce it slowly, he doesn't

1498
01:23:25.840 --> 01:23:30.319
do the because he knows he's under pressure, and because

1499
01:23:30.319 --> 01:23:32.279
Stephen keeps driving home like I don't have the time.

1500
01:23:32.319 --> 01:23:33.960
I don't have the time to talk to you. He

1501
01:23:34.000 --> 01:23:41.960
doesn't do the regular villain monologue, except for he introduces

1502
01:23:42.079 --> 01:23:45.039
this whole concept of what's going to happen by saying,

1503
01:23:45.479 --> 01:23:47.680
we both knew this day of retribution would come.

1504
01:23:48.279 --> 01:23:50.720
Yeah, And he says it just dead.

1505
01:23:50.640 --> 01:23:57.800
Dead serious, and no hint of malice either. It's just

1506
01:23:57.960 --> 01:24:02.720
a matter of fact that this is justice. And he

1507
01:24:03.079 --> 01:24:09.159
explains that because Stephen killed a member of his family,

1508
01:24:09.199 --> 01:24:11.720
the only way that it is that he can make

1509
01:24:11.720 --> 01:24:14.800
it right with the universe, even with the universe, just

1510
01:24:15.000 --> 01:24:16.800
make it right. And that's what I like about this

1511
01:24:16.840 --> 01:24:19.840
movie is there is no God willingness, There is no

1512
01:24:20.039 --> 01:24:25.119
universe willingness. This is all Martin has decided. And now

1513
01:24:25.159 --> 01:24:29.039
things are happening because Martin has decided. The only way

1514
01:24:29.079 --> 01:24:32.279
for this to be right is now Stephen has to

1515
01:24:32.680 --> 01:24:37.279
kill a member of his own family. And in order

1516
01:24:37.439 --> 01:24:39.880
for that to happen, all the members of the family

1517
01:24:39.920 --> 01:24:42.039
are going to get sick. And it started with Bob.

1518
01:24:42.159 --> 01:24:43.720
And the way they're going to get sick is they're

1519
01:24:43.760 --> 01:24:46.560
going to be paralyzed from the waist down. Then they're

1520
01:24:46.600 --> 01:24:49.199
going to refuse food. Then they're going to bleed from

1521
01:24:49.199 --> 01:24:51.960
the eyes, and then in a matter of hours after that,

1522
01:24:52.000 --> 01:24:55.680
they're going to die. Yes, And in order to stop

1523
01:24:55.760 --> 01:24:59.239
that from happening to every member of the family, Stephen

1524
01:24:59.279 --> 01:25:01.560
has to pick one member of the family to kill

1525
01:25:02.560 --> 01:25:07.479
and then this will all be over. And finally he

1526
01:25:07.560 --> 01:25:12.520
makes a good rational decision decision, and Martin is escorted out.

1527
01:25:12.399 --> 01:25:15.720
Of the hospital by security guards. And yeah, that was

1528
01:25:15.760 --> 01:25:18.000
the first boat. Whereas like, finally somebody did something I

1529
01:25:18.000 --> 01:25:20.680
would do, which I call the security guards on.

1530
01:25:20.680 --> 01:25:23.439
This please, where have they been this whole time?

1531
01:25:23.520 --> 01:25:25.359
Well, and he's very direct about, like, you just need

1532
01:25:25.399 --> 01:25:28.159
to make that decision if you wait too long, you know,

1533
01:25:28.840 --> 01:25:30.840
because that's why he mentioned like once the eyes start bleeding,

1534
01:25:30.880 --> 01:25:33.720
it's a matter of hours. He mentions that specifically to

1535
01:25:33.880 --> 01:25:37.119
help exactly quotes to help to help.

1536
01:25:37.199 --> 01:25:40.039
In his mind, he's helping because he's giving him a pointer,

1537
01:25:40.439 --> 01:25:43.800
like you don't you don't necessarily want every single member

1538
01:25:44.000 --> 01:25:46.000
member of the family to die, but it is an

1539
01:25:46.000 --> 01:25:49.640
eye for an eye. Yeah, and I know you said

1540
01:25:49.640 --> 01:25:51.680
you were gonna talk a bit about that. But so

1541
01:25:52.119 --> 01:25:56.479
he's escorted out and then immediately we find out that

1542
01:25:56.600 --> 01:25:59.359
Bob is refusing to eat, which is an issue because

1543
01:25:59.399 --> 01:26:03.319
his mom in his favorite cinnamon donuts and he's not

1544
01:26:03.840 --> 01:26:06.239
he doesn't want to touch them, and he's just saying

1545
01:26:06.279 --> 01:26:10.039
like he's not interested in food right now. But again

1546
01:26:10.239 --> 01:26:16.640
we start to see Steven's his anger come out his

1547
01:26:16.880 --> 01:26:21.520
ire because he starts yelling that Bob has five minutes

1548
01:26:21.560 --> 01:26:23.600
and he's going to eat every single one of those

1549
01:26:23.640 --> 01:26:26.640
donuts because there's no rational reason that he shouldn't be

1550
01:26:26.720 --> 01:26:29.359
hungry and there's no reason that he can't eat the

1551
01:26:29.439 --> 01:26:31.119
donuts that he already likes.

1552
01:26:31.479 --> 01:26:33.560
Yeah, and he says, like, the reason you're so weak

1553
01:26:33.600 --> 01:26:35.239
is that you don't eat enough.

1554
01:26:35.319 --> 01:26:37.680
Yeah, you're not eating enough. So that's clearly the reason

1555
01:26:37.760 --> 01:26:41.479
why you're not walking is because you're weak. So we're

1556
01:26:41.520 --> 01:26:46.199
starting to see that Stephen obviously doesn't believe a word

1557
01:26:46.239 --> 01:26:50.359
that Martin said, and he's trying to prove it to

1558
01:26:50.439 --> 01:26:56.079
himself by proving that this is something else going on

1559
01:26:56.199 --> 01:26:56.640
with Bob.

1560
01:26:56.880 --> 01:27:00.680
Yes, And I think that this is where I got

1561
01:27:00.720 --> 01:27:05.079
really fascinated with the movie because now you're talking about

1562
01:27:05.760 --> 01:27:10.199
excuse me, with with that scene in particular, and with

1563
01:27:10.279 --> 01:27:14.720
his later lacking of patience with his six son, and

1564
01:27:14.760 --> 01:27:17.079
to an extent, his daughter, which we'll you know, we'll

1565
01:27:17.119 --> 01:27:21.239
get there soon sooner than you think. This is very

1566
01:27:21.319 --> 01:27:24.279
The sins of the father will be visited upon the children.

1567
01:27:24.880 --> 01:27:28.920
But but in the fully like biblical context, which would

1568
01:27:28.960 --> 01:27:33.199
be that the father is the shepherd. Therefore he is

1569
01:27:33.239 --> 01:27:34.960
the father of his wife as well. If you look

1570
01:27:35.000 --> 01:27:37.800
at like what that meant all the way back then,

1571
01:27:38.199 --> 01:27:41.000
the the head of the household was literally the father

1572
01:27:41.079 --> 01:27:43.640
of everybody. Basically that was just the way it was.

1573
01:27:45.520 --> 01:27:47.399
And that's and and that's what they and that's why

1574
01:27:47.439 --> 01:27:52.199
we refer throughout most Abrahamic religions it's referred to as

1575
01:27:52.279 --> 01:27:56.239
the father is the big g because the father is

1576
01:27:56.239 --> 01:27:58.359
is the shepherd, is the leader, is the whatever. So

1577
01:27:59.399 --> 01:28:01.159
it's straight up, the sins of the father will be

1578
01:28:01.279 --> 01:28:05.800
visited upon the children. So the reason I find this

1579
01:28:05.840 --> 01:28:09.239
fascinating is not because it's it's literally biblical, but because

1580
01:28:09.840 --> 01:28:12.439
the reason he's angry is the reason lots of people

1581
01:28:12.479 --> 01:28:17.000
get angry when their children are ill, because back in

1582
01:28:17.039 --> 01:28:22.039
their minds somewhere they're wondering, was it my fault? I

1583
01:28:22.199 --> 01:28:24.760
take care of you every day? How did I not

1584
01:28:24.920 --> 01:28:27.479
know you were anemic? Did I not give you the

1585
01:28:27.560 --> 01:28:30.520
right food when you were a baby? Did I was

1586
01:28:30.560 --> 01:28:34.039
it when the doctor said that, you know that formula

1587
01:28:34.199 --> 01:28:36.399
was good enough? Was I? Should I have talked to

1588
01:28:36.520 --> 01:28:40.600
more people? You know? What? Did I do? And that's

1589
01:28:40.600 --> 01:28:42.399
something that people struggle with all the time when their

1590
01:28:42.439 --> 01:28:44.640
loved ones are sick, but especially when they're completely under

1591
01:28:44.680 --> 01:28:48.000
your care. And I think that's what that symbolic of

1592
01:28:48.000 --> 01:28:52.119
of that that inherent guilt that you failed your children.

1593
01:28:52.800 --> 01:28:55.720
And that's what really pulled me in on that last

1594
01:28:55.720 --> 01:28:58.640
half of Maybe Go Whoe is that is that that

1595
01:28:58.720 --> 01:29:01.720
seed has now been planted in his head and now

1596
01:29:01.760 --> 01:29:06.000
he is fully worried that it is literally his fault,

1597
01:29:06.680 --> 01:29:10.960
not because of minor mistakes, but because of literal actions,

1598
01:29:11.279 --> 01:29:16.039
and that this is a consequence directed at him. And

1599
01:29:16.079 --> 01:29:18.439
I think that's when he starts to become a very

1600
01:29:18.439 --> 01:29:23.039
different person, because that level of guilt and shame is

1601
01:29:25.000 --> 01:29:27.439
sky high. Yeah, that's my thought.

1602
01:29:27.640 --> 01:29:30.479
No, I absolutely agree, And I think that the next

1603
01:29:30.520 --> 01:29:34.960
scene really plays into that because I think there is

1604
01:29:35.680 --> 01:29:38.199
a little bit of a theme the sins of the father,

1605
01:29:38.640 --> 01:29:43.399
you know, being visited upon the next generation, but also

1606
01:29:43.560 --> 01:29:51.239
how generational curses work just in general, because the next scene,

1607
01:29:52.680 --> 01:29:56.840
Kim and Martin are alone at the house. He's just

1608
01:29:57.039 --> 01:30:02.640
hanging out with her unsupervised, and you know, she's sitting there.

1609
01:30:03.319 --> 01:30:05.600
He's you know, sitting on her lap, and they're they're

1610
01:30:05.680 --> 01:30:08.439
kind of cuddling, and she's sitting there, you know, caressing him,

1611
01:30:08.880 --> 01:30:11.239
and he's reading something in French, I think, and making

1612
01:30:12.840 --> 01:30:15.600
what could be passed by robots as jokes.

1613
01:30:18.560 --> 01:30:19.359
Well said.

1614
01:30:19.399 --> 01:30:24.239
Well said, uh so they're sitting there and she's very

1615
01:30:24.319 --> 01:30:30.800
clearly in her pubescent way, trying to seduce him. Yeah,

1616
01:30:31.399 --> 01:30:35.880
and then she gets up and she undresses down to

1617
01:30:36.239 --> 01:30:39.359
just her underwear, and she lays down on the bed

1618
01:30:39.800 --> 01:30:43.479
and lays flat on her back and stretches her arms

1619
01:30:43.479 --> 01:30:46.439
out and stretches her legs out, and she looks exactly

1620
01:30:47.079 --> 01:30:49.760
like her mom laying there on the bed.

1621
01:30:50.720 --> 01:30:52.800
Not to be persnickety, she didn't do her arms up.

1622
01:30:53.199 --> 01:30:55.319
She had one arm up and one arm down.

1623
01:30:57.640 --> 01:31:00.279
Okay, maybe I'm maybe I'm mistaken. I agree that that

1624
01:31:00.399 --> 01:31:02.920
about the comparison. I just didn't I didn't think it

1625
01:31:02.960 --> 01:31:05.600
was quite so literally the same, But I mean I

1626
01:31:05.640 --> 01:31:08.279
absolutely agree.

1627
01:31:11.760 --> 01:31:14.399
So you can kind of see, like her example of

1628
01:31:14.439 --> 01:31:18.600
what being sexy is is what she's seen her parents do,

1629
01:31:18.800 --> 01:31:23.039
so she's trying to emulate that. And there there is

1630
01:31:23.119 --> 01:31:28.279
a lot of her and or bob Uh and to

1631
01:31:28.319 --> 01:31:36.479
some extent Stephen them them all trying to imitate what

1632
01:31:36.520 --> 01:31:40.560
they see the adults doing. And so she's she's doing that,

1633
01:31:40.640 --> 01:31:43.760
and so that kind of plays into you know, whatever,

1634
01:31:44.000 --> 01:31:47.119
whatever she saw her parents doing, that's what she's going

1635
01:31:47.159 --> 01:31:51.279
to assume is acceptable. And that's how she starts reacting

1636
01:31:51.439 --> 01:31:58.439
even more volatile as the movie goes on, because she

1637
01:31:58.560 --> 01:32:03.399
sees her parents being even more volatile as as things

1638
01:32:03.439 --> 01:32:03.720
go on.

1639
01:32:03.880 --> 01:32:07.039
It's a really good point. And when she lays there

1640
01:32:07.079 --> 01:32:10.960
clearly making that, you know, offer to him his responses,

1641
01:32:10.960 --> 01:32:13.359
I need to go home. And I have a theory

1642
01:32:13.680 --> 01:32:16.920
about that, and we'll get to that right after this.

1643
01:32:29.319 --> 01:32:35.000
So here's my my very basic theory. So Martin is

1644
01:32:35.359 --> 01:32:41.880
leveling retribution across this family, right right. The daughter is

1645
01:32:41.920 --> 01:32:45.680
in love with him in her you know, insane Romeo

1646
01:32:45.720 --> 01:32:50.479
and Juliet kind of way, you know, being young and pubescent.

1647
01:32:50.000 --> 01:32:54.399
As fuck, so pubescent as fuck correct.

1648
01:32:55.039 --> 01:33:00.000
And he appears interested. I don't think he's totally disentrat

1649
01:33:00.800 --> 01:33:05.800
in that, but I think in that moment, at first

1650
01:33:06.279 --> 01:33:10.079
I thought it was guilt, that he was feeling guilt

1651
01:33:10.199 --> 01:33:12.319
over what was going to happen to them, therefore he

1652
01:33:12.359 --> 01:33:16.399
didn't want to get closer to her or whatever. I

1653
01:33:16.479 --> 01:33:18.960
don't think that's it at all. Yeah, I think that

1654
01:33:19.119 --> 01:33:23.119
he I think he refused that because he's not here

1655
01:33:23.319 --> 01:33:27.239
for himself. He's not here for pleasure. He's not here

1656
01:33:27.279 --> 01:33:30.680
for to meet the woman of his dreams, to have

1657
01:33:30.760 --> 01:33:35.479
babies or any of that shit. He's here for retribution. Yeah,

1658
01:33:35.880 --> 01:33:38.000
I think you're right, period. And I think hanging out

1659
01:33:38.000 --> 01:33:41.720
with her was kind of was never planned, was never

1660
01:33:41.840 --> 01:33:44.880
and I don't think it was even really a part

1661
01:33:45.039 --> 01:33:47.960
of you know, I think it just kind of happened. Yeah,

1662
01:33:47.960 --> 01:33:49.439
and he just kind of leaned into it for a minute.

1663
01:33:49.439 --> 01:33:51.920
I think he was almost just being a person for

1664
01:33:51.960 --> 01:33:54.680
a minute. But I think that that's why he walked away.

1665
01:33:54.720 --> 01:33:56.199
He was like, now, I'm not here for that, That's

1666
01:33:56.239 --> 01:33:58.000
like not my mission at all.

1667
01:33:58.880 --> 01:34:03.359
So Audio, No, I have to agree with that definitely,

1668
01:34:03.439 --> 01:34:09.800
because Kim catch and feelings for him seems to be

1669
01:34:11.920 --> 01:34:15.239
part of the great master plan of getting retribution, not

1670
01:34:15.479 --> 01:34:17.800
its own goal in and of itself, which I think

1671
01:34:17.880 --> 01:34:21.359
is what you're saying. So yeah, that definitely makes sense,

1672
01:34:21.439 --> 01:34:24.680
and when it comes down to it, everything that we

1673
01:34:24.800 --> 01:34:31.359
learn about Martin, his only goal is leveling the playing

1674
01:34:31.399 --> 01:34:34.960
field the way he sees fit. That's the only thing

1675
01:34:35.039 --> 01:34:38.119
he's there for. Yeah, throughout the whole throughout the whole movie,

1676
01:34:39.159 --> 01:34:44.159
and every move up to that point is just him,

1677
01:34:44.479 --> 01:34:47.800
you know, moving a piece on the chessboard. Yeah, basically, yeah,

1678
01:34:47.800 --> 01:34:48.079
I would.

1679
01:34:48.079 --> 01:34:49.079
I would have to agree.

1680
01:34:49.439 --> 01:34:53.880
So after that, that's when Anna and Stephen and all

1681
01:34:54.000 --> 01:34:56.760
the doctors who have been working on Bob are having

1682
01:34:56.840 --> 01:35:02.039
a meeting and they are are all conclusively of the

1683
01:35:02.119 --> 01:35:04.479
opinion that this is psychosomatic.

1684
01:35:04.479 --> 01:35:06.000
And the mom is completely on board.

1685
01:35:06.039 --> 01:35:10.399
Now, yeah, she definitely, she definitely believes, and she believes

1686
01:35:10.600 --> 01:35:14.199
that the sooner they get him home and kind of

1687
01:35:14.239 --> 01:35:17.039
get things as close to normal as they can, and

1688
01:35:17.079 --> 01:35:21.680
the sooner they get him psychiatric treatment, the better because

1689
01:35:21.720 --> 01:35:23.640
this is all in his mind, and the more they

1690
01:35:23.720 --> 01:35:25.920
keep him in the hospital, the more freaked out and

1691
01:35:25.960 --> 01:35:29.560
convinced he's going to be that this is something serious

1692
01:35:29.600 --> 01:35:33.439
and medical. And now Stephen's the one who's saying, no,

1693
01:35:33.680 --> 01:35:36.880
he needs to stay in the hospital because whether he

1694
01:35:36.960 --> 01:35:40.319
will admit it or not, if this, if he can

1695
01:35:40.359 --> 01:35:43.880
conclusively say this is X, Y, and Z. Then he

1696
01:35:44.000 --> 01:35:47.079
knows it's not Martin, and therefore Martin is lying, and

1697
01:35:47.119 --> 01:35:49.520
therefore no one else is going to be sick, and

1698
01:35:49.560 --> 01:35:51.359
therefore everything's going to be fine.

1699
01:35:52.199 --> 01:35:54.720
There's another side to that though, in my opinion, hmm,

1700
01:35:54.880 --> 01:35:58.279
I think he also he also is considering the idea

1701
01:35:58.279 --> 01:36:02.159
that Martin may be influencing his son, because the next

1702
01:36:02.199 --> 01:36:04.880
sequence he takes him in the wheelchair by himself. Yeah,

1703
01:36:04.880 --> 01:36:06.079
and he says, let's go for a walk, and he

1704
01:36:06.119 --> 01:36:09.119
just picks him up and tries dragging his feet across

1705
01:36:09.119 --> 01:36:11.359
the floor. He lets him drop a few times, trying

1706
01:36:11.399 --> 01:36:13.520
to get him to catch himself or or do something.

1707
01:36:13.560 --> 01:36:16.439
And he says like, if you're pretending, if you admit

1708
01:36:16.520 --> 01:36:19.159
it right now, you will get in no trouble whatsoever.

1709
01:36:19.520 --> 01:36:21.600
You won't. We won't even be mad at you. We

1710
01:36:21.680 --> 01:36:23.960
just want you to be back to normal. And he's like,

1711
01:36:23.960 --> 01:36:26.319
I'm not faking it, and then he it's it's it's

1712
01:36:26.359 --> 01:36:28.079
a whole bizarre scene. I don't think we can't do

1713
01:36:28.119 --> 01:36:29.199
it justice to tell all of that.

1714
01:36:29.319 --> 01:36:33.279
No, No, but it gets really weird, really fast, deeply weird.

1715
01:36:33.800 --> 01:36:36.760
Yeah. Yeah, it gets very very dark and strange, which

1716
01:36:36.800 --> 01:36:40.199
is just the motto of the film. But but I

1717
01:36:40.319 --> 01:36:43.520
really think that that scene because you got to remember

1718
01:36:43.520 --> 01:36:45.560
that the last thing he saw was Martin alone with

1719
01:36:45.680 --> 01:36:48.760
him HM, and he knows Martin's been around the kids

1720
01:36:48.840 --> 01:36:51.640
quite a bit. So part of me, you know, thinks

1721
01:36:51.680 --> 01:36:54.279
that he was thinking, like, maybe you're being told to

1722
01:36:54.359 --> 01:36:58.199
act this way because there's no medical you know, there's

1723
01:36:58.239 --> 01:37:00.600
no all the tests say you're fines, So maybe you're

1724
01:37:01.039 --> 01:37:03.079
maybe whether it's that he convinced you it was a

1725
01:37:03.079 --> 01:37:05.439
good idea, or threatened you, or said he'd kill you

1726
01:37:05.600 --> 01:37:07.000
or kill your mom, or kill.

1727
01:37:06.880 --> 01:37:10.479
Me, or said, however, he convinced you.

1728
01:37:10.760 --> 01:37:13.439
I think that that is why, is what he had

1729
01:37:13.479 --> 01:37:14.800
to rule out by doing that.

1730
01:37:15.159 --> 01:37:16.520
Yeah, and that was.

1731
01:37:16.479 --> 01:37:19.199
When that's why he was like, you know, I want

1732
01:37:19.199 --> 01:37:20.319
to And I think that's also why he was like

1733
01:37:20.319 --> 01:37:21.720
I want to keep him in the hospital, because he

1734
01:37:21.800 --> 01:37:25.119
was like, this is either he's either being forced to

1735
01:37:25.159 --> 01:37:27.800
do this or he is horribly sick, and I don't

1736
01:37:27.800 --> 01:37:28.359
know what it is.

1737
01:37:28.680 --> 01:37:30.319
Yeah, and either way, it's better for him to be

1738
01:37:30.399 --> 01:37:31.760
in the hospital than to be at home.

1739
01:37:31.840 --> 01:37:36.039
Well, and until very soon in the story, he the

1740
01:37:36.079 --> 01:37:38.560
hospital is a safe haven to him. Yeah, it's a

1741
01:37:38.560 --> 01:37:41.079
place where people get better. It's a place where you know,

1742
01:37:41.600 --> 01:37:44.800
all that stuff. So yeah, that's that's kind of my

1743
01:37:44.880 --> 01:37:47.439
thought is that he wanted to rule out that fear.

1744
01:37:47.720 --> 01:37:49.840
I agree, But and also.

1745
01:37:49.680 --> 01:37:51.199
Because you know, if he'd been faking it, it would have

1746
01:37:51.239 --> 01:37:54.479
not just been a relief that he's okay, it would

1747
01:37:54.520 --> 01:37:56.680
have been a relief that this is not the sins

1748
01:37:56.720 --> 01:38:01.159
of the father being literally laid onto his it's being

1749
01:38:01.199 --> 01:38:04.119
figuratively laid on because somebody he wronged is doing this.

1750
01:38:04.520 --> 01:38:08.920
But it's not. He's not ill, you know, yeah, miraculously

1751
01:38:09.079 --> 01:38:12.079
sick and dying, which is a whole other it's like

1752
01:38:12.119 --> 01:38:13.079
hard to comprehend.

1753
01:38:13.359 --> 01:38:20.600
Yes, yeah, yeah, So Bob assures him, I'm not acting,

1754
01:38:21.079 --> 01:38:24.119
this isn't I'm not lying, and they have that whole

1755
01:38:24.159 --> 01:38:28.399
weird moment, which is kind of a bonding moment, yeah,

1756
01:38:28.439 --> 01:38:32.000
in a in a strange way. And then we're at

1757
01:38:32.199 --> 01:38:35.039
choir practice with Kim, and this is what makes it

1758
01:38:35.079 --> 01:38:38.000
a Christmas movie is they're they're they're practicing the Carol

1759
01:38:38.039 --> 01:38:38.520
of the bells.

1760
01:38:38.560 --> 01:38:40.960
They are, no, they really are. They're they're in choir

1761
01:38:41.000 --> 01:38:42.399
practice doing Carol on the bells.

1762
01:38:43.000 --> 01:38:47.399
And then she just straight up passes out and falls

1763
01:38:47.439 --> 01:38:52.199
over and so now they have two children in the

1764
01:38:52.239 --> 01:38:56.439
hospital who can't walk, and they're running all the tests

1765
01:38:56.479 --> 01:39:01.199
that they possibly can on Kim as well, because now

1766
01:39:01.239 --> 01:39:05.000
it does not seem well if it is psychosomatic, now

1767
01:39:05.000 --> 01:39:07.680
we have to figure out how to treat both of them.

1768
01:39:08.159 --> 01:39:14.680
So Steven's getting a little at the end of his rope,

1769
01:39:15.359 --> 01:39:20.720
and that's when he goes to try and set things

1770
01:39:20.760 --> 01:39:24.199
straight with Martin by banging on his door and screaming

1771
01:39:24.560 --> 01:39:26.640
and saying I'll fuck your mom and I'll fuck you too,

1772
01:39:26.720 --> 01:39:31.119
just the way you wanted, which what a threat.

1773
01:39:30.760 --> 01:39:34.359
But it makes sense. I mean, they like, like, it

1774
01:39:34.399 --> 01:39:36.800
feels like what he wants is to crawl inside him

1775
01:39:36.840 --> 01:39:39.359
and be him. You know, it does. It does. It's

1776
01:39:39.560 --> 01:39:41.720
crazy because you know, this guy is like, you know,

1777
01:39:41.760 --> 01:39:43.479
you have to get revenge. But also I'm trying to

1778
01:39:43.479 --> 01:39:46.880
literally make you my father. Like it's it's which is strange.

1779
01:39:46.880 --> 01:39:51.199
It's kind of like those are two odd things. Pick one. Well,

1780
01:39:51.239 --> 01:39:58.159
you know, so he's you know, he's obviously getting very upset,

1781
01:39:58.279 --> 01:40:05.039
and that night he finally admits to his wife what

1782
01:40:05.159 --> 01:40:09.520
actually happened, and they're there in a dark kitchen and

1783
01:40:09.640 --> 01:40:13.199
she kind of squeezes it out of him. She's like,

1784
01:40:14.000 --> 01:40:18.880
you know, the whole car crash thing doesn't quite add up.

1785
01:40:20.960 --> 01:40:25.159
And Martin's coming around and visiting a lot, what is

1786
01:40:25.960 --> 01:40:31.479
truly going on? And he finally admits that his father

1787
01:40:31.640 --> 01:40:35.720
had a heart arrhythmia and he died on the operating table.

1788
01:40:35.800 --> 01:40:40.640
But Stephen had actually had a few drinks before well.

1789
01:40:40.720 --> 01:40:43.520
She asks him that, she says, were you drinking?

1790
01:40:43.680 --> 01:40:47.000
Were you drinking? And he finally admits, yes, I had

1791
01:40:47.039 --> 01:40:55.319
been drinking. But but it's never the surgeon's fault, he

1792
01:40:55.399 --> 01:40:58.680
literally says. He literally says, but it's never the surgeon's fault.

1793
01:40:58.800 --> 01:41:00.279
It's always the anethg.

1794
01:41:00.439 --> 01:41:03.439
And he's like, surgeons don't kill people in surgery. Anesthesiologists

1795
01:41:03.760 --> 01:41:04.840
kill people in surgeries.

1796
01:41:06.359 --> 01:41:11.319
And we'll get to that. So now we finally have

1797
01:41:11.520 --> 01:41:16.720
the full picture that kind of the thing. The big

1798
01:41:16.800 --> 01:41:24.000
lie wasn't necessarily that Martin Martin's dad had been a

1799
01:41:24.039 --> 01:41:28.840
patient of his, wasn't necessarily that Martin's dad had died

1800
01:41:29.560 --> 01:41:35.479
on the operating table. It was that Stephen had been

1801
01:41:35.560 --> 01:41:41.319
drinking again. Yeah, And that was the thing that to me,

1802
01:41:42.479 --> 01:41:44.640
that was the big thing. That he was trying to

1803
01:41:44.680 --> 01:41:48.560
save face and all the other lies are a domino

1804
01:41:48.640 --> 01:41:52.720
effect of him lying to not admit to his wife

1805
01:41:52.800 --> 01:41:54.279
that he'd been drinking again.

1806
01:41:54.439 --> 01:41:57.560
Right, And I think you're right. Part of me thought

1807
01:41:57.600 --> 01:41:59.319
maybe it could have all he could have also, that

1808
01:41:59.359 --> 01:42:01.920
could have also been before he'd stopped drinking, but that

1809
01:42:01.920 --> 01:42:04.119
that was his actual rock bottom and nobody knew about it.

1810
01:42:04.520 --> 01:42:04.920
Possible.

1811
01:42:04.920 --> 01:42:07.439
That's possible as well because the timeline is kind of hinky.

1812
01:42:07.880 --> 01:42:11.000
He says that that Martin had been visiting him for

1813
01:42:11.079 --> 01:42:13.960
quite a while, but in the last six months a lot. Yeah,

1814
01:42:14.000 --> 01:42:16.039
so that's where it gets kind of kind of hinky

1815
01:42:16.079 --> 01:42:18.720
as well. But we'll dive into that even more. Right

1816
01:42:18.760 --> 01:42:33.399
after this, we are back and now that the daughter

1817
01:42:33.520 --> 01:42:36.359
is not able to walk, and we're starting to learn

1818
01:42:36.520 --> 01:42:39.800
that Stephen has made some terrible mistakes in his life.

1819
01:42:40.479 --> 01:42:44.800
That's where I start to really feel bad for him, though,

1820
01:42:46.199 --> 01:42:50.680
because it's not like he's a person living a sinful, callous,

1821
01:42:50.800 --> 01:42:54.479
killing life for the heck of it. He clearly has

1822
01:42:54.520 --> 01:43:00.479
an immense amount of sadness over his mistakes. And one

1823
01:43:00.520 --> 01:43:04.359
thing that really rang true though, just now as we

1824
01:43:04.359 --> 01:43:06.279
were talking, that just kind of hit me, you know,

1825
01:43:06.319 --> 01:43:09.239
what he never does through all of this struggle, that

1826
01:43:09.479 --> 01:43:12.079
at least as far as I recall, never drinks.

1827
01:43:12.520 --> 01:43:14.560
No. No, he never goes back to it.

1828
01:43:14.640 --> 01:43:20.319
And you'd think he would, especially when he makes the

1829
01:43:20.800 --> 01:43:23.159
you know, the final moments of the film, you'd think

1830
01:43:23.199 --> 01:43:26.159
he would drink. But as far as I remember, he

1831
01:43:26.239 --> 01:43:33.359
never does no, which is bizarre, not bizarre, but fascinating, interesting, curious.

1832
01:43:33.920 --> 01:43:36.279
So now we get that he has been trying to

1833
01:43:36.359 --> 01:43:39.960
atone for a sin. He's been trying to make things

1834
01:43:40.079 --> 01:43:43.880
right with the young man, he's been trying to help him.

1835
01:43:44.000 --> 01:43:46.880
So there's a lot of guilt here, an immense amount

1836
01:43:46.880 --> 01:43:48.960
of guilt. But I also feel bad for him because

1837
01:43:48.960 --> 01:43:50.680
like he could have just like shrugged it off. And again,

1838
01:43:50.680 --> 01:43:53.680
that's what I have insurance for. Yeah, and he didn't.

1839
01:43:53.760 --> 01:43:57.680
He actually took an interest in this family. Not saying

1840
01:43:57.680 --> 01:44:00.199
that it's fine what he did. I'm just yeah, like

1841
01:44:00.760 --> 01:44:03.640
shit happens when you party naked, you know, shit happens

1842
01:44:03.680 --> 01:44:06.680
in life. He reacted in a way that I think

1843
01:44:06.760 --> 01:44:11.760
shows an immense amount of humanity, But it would be

1844
01:44:11.800 --> 01:44:15.560
better if he could admit that it was his fault,

1845
01:44:15.880 --> 01:44:18.680
and that's something he does not do. No, And I

1846
01:44:18.720 --> 01:44:22.359
think that's his greatest flaw in the character and that's

1847
01:44:22.359 --> 01:44:24.680
probably the worst thing about him, honestly, is that he

1848
01:44:24.760 --> 01:44:27.560
can't just admit, like, I fucked up and the sky

1849
01:44:27.640 --> 01:44:30.600
died and that's why I put so much effort into

1850
01:44:30.600 --> 01:44:35.319
helping his family. Doesn't ever say that. And that's really

1851
01:44:35.359 --> 01:44:38.319
the thing I the one truly, the one thing I

1852
01:44:38.319 --> 01:44:39.720
truly don't like about his character.

1853
01:44:40.319 --> 01:44:43.319
Yeah, well me too, because I kind of felt the

1854
01:44:43.319 --> 01:44:47.319
first time I had gotten done watching it, I kept

1855
01:44:47.359 --> 01:44:50.520
asking myself, like, how could any of this have been different?

1856
01:44:51.520 --> 01:44:54.680
And my whole thought was, well, the only way this

1857
01:44:54.720 --> 01:44:57.840
could have been at all different is if there were

1858
01:44:57.920 --> 01:44:59.920
no movie. And the only way for this to have

1859
01:45:01.239 --> 01:45:06.680
not happened is if immediately he would have admitted I

1860
01:45:06.760 --> 01:45:10.119
was drinking and I fucked up and I killed that person.

1861
01:45:13.640 --> 01:45:16.000
It never would have escalated to this at that point,

1862
01:45:16.399 --> 01:45:19.720
especially because then there wouldn't have been all those teeny

1863
01:45:19.760 --> 01:45:22.680
tiny lies that he laid on top of it just

1864
01:45:22.720 --> 01:45:26.640
to hide the truth of yes, I had been drinking, right, yeah, right.

1865
01:45:28.439 --> 01:45:30.439
So it's the next day and we've got the two

1866
01:45:30.520 --> 01:45:34.800
kids in the hospital, Steven's obviously working, you know which,

1867
01:45:34.800 --> 01:45:38.039
obviously being at the hospital working as a surgeon. It's

1868
01:45:38.079 --> 01:45:40.359
not the worst thing because then if something does happen, at.

1869
01:45:40.359 --> 01:45:42.199
Least like he can be there exactly.

1870
01:45:42.439 --> 01:45:45.359
But Anna's the one who's sitting there with the kids,

1871
01:45:45.439 --> 01:45:47.640
kind of taking care of them in the room. And

1872
01:45:47.720 --> 01:45:50.560
Kim gets a call on her phone, and while we

1873
01:45:50.680 --> 01:45:53.159
never hear the voice, we know exactly who it is

1874
01:45:53.199 --> 01:45:56.920
because she perks up immediately and she's immediately, Oh, yeah,

1875
01:45:56.960 --> 01:45:59.439
I'm I'm in the room with my family, and yeah,

1876
01:45:59.479 --> 01:46:01.920
I can't right now, but how are you? And what's

1877
01:46:01.960 --> 01:46:04.640
going on with you? And where are you? How come

1878
01:46:04.720 --> 01:46:08.600
I can't see you? Okay? Oh can't you? No, I

1879
01:46:08.640 --> 01:46:11.319
can't go down there, I can't walk. Why don't you

1880
01:46:11.399 --> 01:46:15.159
come up here? Oh? Okay? And then her tone changes

1881
01:46:15.720 --> 01:46:18.800
and she says, you really think so? You really think

1882
01:46:18.840 --> 01:46:22.479
I could? Huh? And she just swings to the side

1883
01:46:22.520 --> 01:46:25.199
of the bed and just stands up and walks over

1884
01:46:25.319 --> 01:46:29.000
the window to look out the window like nothing had

1885
01:46:29.039 --> 01:46:32.079
even happened, and Bob says, hey, I want to walk too,

1886
01:46:32.239 --> 01:46:35.520
and he just falls right out of the bed, And

1887
01:46:36.159 --> 01:46:39.760
as soon as Martin hangs up the phone, and we

1888
01:46:39.880 --> 01:46:41.880
realize that he's not out there anymore, because we see

1889
01:46:41.920 --> 01:46:43.640
several shots where like you can kind of see him

1890
01:46:43.640 --> 01:46:46.119
out the window, and then once you realize that you

1891
01:46:46.159 --> 01:46:51.239
can't see him anymore, he's the moost. Kim falls down,

1892
01:46:51.319 --> 01:46:53.319
so they get her back to the bed, and they

1893
01:46:53.319 --> 01:46:56.840
get Bob up to the bed. But now it's really

1894
01:46:56.920 --> 01:47:02.359
looking like Martin does control this. Martin's the one pulling

1895
01:47:02.399 --> 01:47:07.640
the strings. And that's when Anna goes to talk to

1896
01:47:07.720 --> 01:47:14.880
Martin in his mother's home. Right, most awkward spaghetti eating scene.

1897
01:47:15.800 --> 01:47:19.479
I've heard people reference this cinema on social media before.

1898
01:47:19.800 --> 01:47:22.079
So he's eating a big plate of spaghetti first thing

1899
01:47:22.079 --> 01:47:24.479
in the morning in his underwear while he's talking to her,

1900
01:47:25.000 --> 01:47:27.840
and it's as memorable as you can think. But he

1901
01:47:28.439 --> 01:47:32.279
shares this this story about how he was always told

1902
01:47:32.359 --> 01:47:35.159
he ate spaghetti just like his father, and then one

1903
01:47:35.199 --> 01:47:38.880
day he realized that everybody eats spaghetti that way, and

1904
01:47:38.960 --> 01:47:40.760
it was almost worse than the day he found out

1905
01:47:40.800 --> 01:47:44.399
his father had died. And the more I think about

1906
01:47:44.399 --> 01:47:45.880
that story, the more interesting it is.

1907
01:47:46.199 --> 01:47:47.239
Yeah, because at.

1908
01:47:47.119 --> 01:47:49.880
First it feels bizarre, but he's really just talking about

1909
01:47:49.880 --> 01:47:51.760
what grief is actually like.

1910
01:47:52.279 --> 01:47:56.359
Yeah, you know, because it those weird little things do

1911
01:47:56.560 --> 01:47:59.359
almost hurt more than the loss itself.

1912
01:47:59.479 --> 01:48:01.560
Yeah, we lost another piece of his father, because now

1913
01:48:01.600 --> 01:48:03.560
he's realized that that's not that he's not like him.

1914
01:48:03.800 --> 01:48:06.239
He thought he doesn't actually have that in common with him.

1915
01:48:06.359 --> 01:48:10.199
It's it's pretty rough, but freakin' Anna is starting to

1916
01:48:10.199 --> 01:48:14.439
show some new colors because she basically is like, why

1917
01:48:14.560 --> 01:48:15.479
why punish me?

1918
01:48:16.159 --> 01:48:19.439
Yeah, she doesn't even say the kids. Well she does,

1919
01:48:19.720 --> 01:48:21.760
she does say like why punish it? Why punish me?

1920
01:48:21.800 --> 01:48:25.279
Why punish my family? But a lot of it is

1921
01:48:25.479 --> 01:48:30.399
like focused on her though. Well, and if I may, sure,

1922
01:48:30.720 --> 01:48:35.279
but I think from her standpoint, the why punish me

1923
01:48:36.159 --> 01:48:40.640
is because they're her kids too, so she's part of

1924
01:48:40.680 --> 01:48:43.720
this punishment too, So why punish her? Why bring her

1925
01:48:43.920 --> 01:48:45.279
and her kids into it?

1926
01:48:45.359 --> 01:48:47.279
Yeah? Until we find out what she says later.

1927
01:48:48.840 --> 01:48:51.640
Yeah, that does make that a little more complex.

1928
01:48:51.720 --> 01:48:54.159
Yeah, I just want to float out there.

1929
01:48:54.319 --> 01:48:58.239
That does make it a little more complex. So so

1930
01:48:58.279 --> 01:49:01.319
Martin kind of explains, again, I can't stop this. This

1931
01:49:01.399 --> 01:49:04.159
is just what's happening, like and you have to encourage

1932
01:49:04.199 --> 01:49:07.479
Stephen to make a decision soon because otherwise both of

1933
01:49:07.520 --> 01:49:12.600
your kids are gonna die. And that's when Anna goes

1934
01:49:13.439 --> 01:49:16.800
and she talks. She wants to get more information. She

1935
01:49:16.960 --> 01:49:20.239
is again she is also a doctor, and and this

1936
01:49:20.399 --> 01:49:23.439
family is very logical, so she's trying to get a

1937
01:49:23.439 --> 01:49:27.880
better understanding. So she goes to meet Matthew, the anesthessteesiologist

1938
01:49:28.359 --> 01:49:32.199
at the diner, and she's asking if he's got any

1939
01:49:32.239 --> 01:49:35.560
more information on Martin's dad's case, on you know, what

1940
01:49:35.680 --> 01:49:38.560
exactly happened. And at first Matthew's kind of dodgy and

1941
01:49:38.560 --> 01:49:40.880
he's kind of like, I can't really tell you, and like, besides,

1942
01:49:40.960 --> 01:49:44.159
like that is a huge violation. I can't even if

1943
01:49:44.199 --> 01:49:47.119
I could remember anything about it, I can't tell you

1944
01:49:47.279 --> 01:49:52.560
anything about it. And she she kind of you know,

1945
01:49:54.000 --> 01:49:56.760
jokes with him a little bit, and then you know,

1946
01:49:56.840 --> 01:49:58.880
says like, oh, well, I could you know, I could

1947
01:49:58.920 --> 01:49:59.960
give you something for it.

1948
01:50:00.399 --> 01:50:01.600
Well, he asks what would I get?

1949
01:50:01.640 --> 01:50:04.600
What would I get for it? And she says, well,

1950
01:50:04.640 --> 01:50:06.760
you could get what you didn't get the other night,

1951
01:50:07.720 --> 01:50:11.119
which at first we're like, that's a weird thing to say.

1952
01:50:11.359 --> 01:50:15.600
It's still weird. It is still what happens even still yeah.

1953
01:50:15.159 --> 01:50:19.239
It is still weird. And so he finally he kind

1954
01:50:19.239 --> 01:50:21.319
of finally relents. He's like, ah, well, I guess I

1955
01:50:21.359 --> 01:50:24.199
do kind of I guess I do kind of remember.

1956
01:50:25.039 --> 01:50:27.239
So when when could I get that, and she's like, oh,

1957
01:50:27.359 --> 01:50:29.399
well right now, and then they're just in his car

1958
01:50:29.439 --> 01:50:31.560
and she's jacking them off as.

1959
01:50:31.439 --> 01:50:35.199
You go away with words a true poet, and you

1960
01:50:35.279 --> 01:50:41.560
were not aware of it, And that whole sequence is

1961
01:50:41.720 --> 01:50:43.960
very strange. I mean, he's telling her the information during

1962
01:50:44.000 --> 01:50:47.319
the sex act and then they complete the sex act.

1963
01:50:47.439 --> 01:50:50.279
And I can't tell if if it's that they've had

1964
01:50:50.319 --> 01:50:56.399
an ongoing affair or if they're like wife swappers, because

1965
01:50:56.399 --> 01:50:58.960
it doesn't it seems familiar enough that I don't think

1966
01:50:59.000 --> 01:51:03.199
this is the first, right, But they don't seem that

1967
01:51:03.800 --> 01:51:05.560
cagey about it.

1968
01:51:05.560 --> 01:51:07.479
It's it's just a thing that they do.

1969
01:51:07.600 --> 01:51:10.399
It's really hard to kind of make heads or tails

1970
01:51:10.399 --> 01:51:12.319
of that, of course, and it never comes up again

1971
01:51:12.760 --> 01:51:15.439
in any way, shape or form. So maybe your ghosts

1972
01:51:15.439 --> 01:51:17.640
has just giving us a little a little uh good

1973
01:51:17.720 --> 01:51:19.960
luck with that of figuring that one out.

1974
01:51:20.560 --> 01:51:25.119
Here you go, Uh so, Matthew, does you know kind

1975
01:51:25.119 --> 01:51:27.239
of remember he remembers like, oh, yeah, your husband had

1976
01:51:27.399 --> 01:51:30.520
a couple of drinks. But you know, like it is

1977
01:51:30.560 --> 01:51:34.760
still kind of weird that this guy died. But then

1978
01:51:34.840 --> 01:51:38.439
he says, but it's not my fault, because it's never

1979
01:51:38.920 --> 01:51:43.720
the anesthesiologist. It's always the surgeon. So no one is

1980
01:51:43.760 --> 01:51:47.560
willing to take responsibility for this guy's death, right, which

1981
01:51:47.600 --> 01:51:50.159
I again, I think that if someone would have taken

1982
01:51:50.199 --> 01:51:53.800
responsibility when it happened, then we would never even had

1983
01:51:53.840 --> 01:51:54.840
this movie to begin with.

1984
01:51:55.079 --> 01:51:56.600
Very possible. Yeah, so.

1985
01:51:58.880 --> 01:52:01.319
That is just you know, I found it kind of

1986
01:52:01.399 --> 01:52:04.640
funny that he blamed the surgeon, Like that's that's the

1987
01:52:04.640 --> 01:52:06.720
way it goes, is you got to pass the buck

1988
01:52:06.760 --> 01:52:10.920
to the next guy. So they've finally decided that it's

1989
01:52:10.960 --> 01:52:13.119
it is best for the kids to come home.

1990
01:52:13.800 --> 01:52:16.159
Yes, And there's a whole it's it's a lot. There's

1991
01:52:16.199 --> 01:52:18.319
a whole thing where he's like mad at the dock

1992
01:52:18.720 --> 01:52:21.439
the staff of the hospital and he's insulting to them,

1993
01:52:21.479 --> 01:52:23.520
and then they bring the kids home. It's a lot.

1994
01:52:24.000 --> 01:52:24.199
It is.

1995
01:52:26.039 --> 01:52:28.359
We don't want to make this like four hour long

1996
01:52:28.399 --> 01:52:33.039
time podcast though. So that's when Stephen and Anna are

1997
01:52:33.119 --> 01:52:37.439
sitting there kind of discussing, discussing the kids recovery and

1998
01:52:37.439 --> 01:52:40.239
and it's late that night. She's obviously like made dinner

1999
01:52:40.279 --> 01:52:43.039
and like just reheated it for him and everything, and

2000
01:52:44.199 --> 01:52:47.039
he thinks that it would be a great idea to

2001
01:52:47.039 --> 01:52:49.279
take the kids to like the beach house soon or

2002
01:52:49.279 --> 01:52:52.319
the lake house whatever they called it, and he mentions

2003
01:52:52.359 --> 01:52:54.840
how much like, you know, what would be really good,

2004
01:52:55.439 --> 01:52:58.159
mashed potatoes. Mashed potatoes would be great, and she kind

2005
01:52:58.159 --> 01:53:02.000
of gets upset with them because because she realizes that

2006
01:53:02.119 --> 01:53:06.600
this situation is dire now and he's just trying to

2007
01:53:06.640 --> 01:53:09.399
go about as if this is normal.

2008
01:53:09.560 --> 01:53:12.000
Well, in my opinion, he was doing that in his

2009
01:53:12.159 --> 01:53:15.039
mind for her sake. Yes, he was trying to involve

2010
01:53:15.119 --> 01:53:18.319
some normality in their conversation, because the first thing he

2011
01:53:18.319 --> 01:53:19.920
does at that dinner scene is tell her how good

2012
01:53:19.920 --> 01:53:22.359
the food she made is. He's trying to say, like,

2013
01:53:22.479 --> 01:53:24.880
thank you for you did a good job with this thing,

2014
01:53:25.319 --> 01:53:28.239
since we're living through hell of our children dying. Yeah,

2015
01:53:28.319 --> 01:53:29.920
you know. But of course for her she's like, yeah,

2016
01:53:29.960 --> 01:53:31.920
but it's literally your fault and I know it now

2017
01:53:32.479 --> 01:53:36.279
and it gets I know, kids, it gets worse every time.

2018
01:53:36.520 --> 01:53:51.760
But we'll talk about that right after this. So things

2019
01:53:51.800 --> 01:53:57.239
have escalated, but they're about to escalate even more so.

2020
01:53:58.880 --> 01:54:03.479
Anna finally accused Steve of actually like being culpable, that

2021
01:54:03.600 --> 01:54:09.640
this is his fault, that his actions are directly responsible,

2022
01:54:10.439 --> 01:54:14.319
and he doesn't like that answer because that just sounds

2023
01:54:14.319 --> 01:54:18.000
like voodoo to him. So he like explodes, saying, oh, well,

2024
01:54:18.000 --> 01:54:20.880
we'll just make a potion and starts throwing stuff around

2025
01:54:20.920 --> 01:54:23.800
the kitchen saying, well, well, well you know, well, you know,

2026
01:54:24.800 --> 01:54:30.600
looking for alligatorator and pubes of a virgin and something else. Yeah,

2027
01:54:30.680 --> 01:54:33.760
like so he makes a mess, and this is again,

2028
01:54:33.800 --> 01:54:37.039
this is like we've seen him his anger escalate, but

2029
01:54:37.159 --> 01:54:39.840
this is when we've the first time we've actually seen

2030
01:54:39.880 --> 01:54:46.199
it boil over. And and once it boils over onto Anna,

2031
01:54:46.520 --> 01:54:49.039
that's when it starts boiling over onto the kids, because

2032
01:54:49.079 --> 01:54:53.600
she starts getting more and more short with Kim. So

2033
01:54:53.880 --> 01:54:57.399
that night they say that it's really they shouldn't be fighting,

2034
01:54:57.720 --> 01:55:00.359
and they go to bed kind of made up, and

2035
01:55:00.399 --> 01:55:03.439
Stephen leaves in the middle of the night, just in

2036
01:55:03.520 --> 01:55:05.720
the dead of night. And then the next morning when

2037
01:55:05.720 --> 01:55:09.399
he comes back, Anna is like, why, you know, why

2038
01:55:09.399 --> 01:55:11.479
didn't you wake me? Why didn't you, you know, turn

2039
01:55:11.520 --> 01:55:13.520
on the alarms. He's like, well, it's eight ten. I've

2040
01:55:13.560 --> 01:55:18.279
got something to show you. He takes her downstairs and

2041
01:55:18.399 --> 01:55:25.560
Martin's in the basement tied to a chair, because why

2042
01:55:25.640 --> 01:55:26.439
wouldn't he be.

2043
01:55:27.359 --> 01:55:31.680
I mean, I'm not gonna lie, I'm surprised it took

2044
01:55:31.720 --> 01:55:32.319
so long.

2045
01:55:34.119 --> 01:55:35.079
With all that's happened.

2046
01:55:35.319 --> 01:55:37.920
Yeah, I mean, really, what that is is that's him

2047
01:55:38.000 --> 01:55:40.399
admitting that he believes what's happening.

2048
01:55:40.720 --> 01:55:42.800
He finally believes because he's.

2049
01:55:42.680 --> 01:55:44.760
Willing to take out it, take it out on Martin.

2050
01:55:45.039 --> 01:55:45.640
Yeah.

2051
01:55:45.680 --> 01:55:47.039
Fully, So.

2052
01:55:50.000 --> 01:55:52.079
Anna kind of goes up to do her own thing.

2053
01:55:52.239 --> 01:55:55.800
It's it's revealed actually that she's cleaning out the car. Yes,

2054
01:55:56.479 --> 01:56:00.640
which that's the kind of Rider Die relationship that we

2055
01:56:00.640 --> 01:56:01.479
can all strive for.

2056
01:56:02.359 --> 01:56:03.640
I don't know if you're going to feel that way

2057
01:56:03.680 --> 01:56:07.319
in about eight minutes, but because that's kind of the

2058
01:56:07.479 --> 01:56:11.000
that's kind of one of the she said, like, I'm

2059
01:56:11.039 --> 01:56:13.000
with you through anything. In the moment that that she

2060
01:56:13.119 --> 01:56:15.840
heard he fucked up, she was like, actually, actually not

2061
01:56:15.840 --> 01:56:18.640
not really though, well it did till.

2062
01:56:19.840 --> 01:56:22.760
So that's when Martin and Stephen start talking about what

2063
01:56:22.880 --> 01:56:27.039
is happening, and Stephen, by way of example, says, well,

2064
01:56:27.199 --> 01:56:31.279
to explain it to you, here's what it's like, Andy,

2065
01:56:31.520 --> 01:56:35.399
and he bites and he chomps down on Stephen's arm

2066
01:56:36.000 --> 01:56:39.359
and like bites to draw blood, and he says, okay, well,

2067
01:56:39.840 --> 01:56:42.640
the only way for me to make this right is

2068
01:56:42.840 --> 01:56:46.079
to now do this and then Martin bites himself and

2069
01:56:46.159 --> 01:56:50.239
doesn't just draw blood, but rips a chunk out of

2070
01:56:50.279 --> 01:56:56.720
his own arm and says, that's what this is is symbolic. Yeah,

2071
01:56:56.800 --> 01:56:59.800
so to make it right, you have to make it

2072
01:57:00.079 --> 01:57:04.479
choice of who you're gonna kill. Stephen picks up a

2073
01:57:04.560 --> 01:57:07.680
rifle and tries to shoot him, but Martin.

2074
01:57:07.880 --> 01:57:10.520
He doesn't try. He shoots him in the leg.

2075
01:57:10.840 --> 01:57:13.640
But Martin. Martin tries to make the excuse like, even

2076
01:57:13.680 --> 01:57:15.680
if you do kill me, like this is not going

2077
01:57:15.720 --> 01:57:17.600
to go right for you, You're not going to be able

2078
01:57:17.600 --> 01:57:19.520
to explain this, and then how are you going to

2079
01:57:19.600 --> 01:57:22.279
explain it when the rest of your family dies.

2080
01:57:23.279 --> 01:57:25.640
She had suggested that if he died, they would all

2081
01:57:25.680 --> 01:57:28.680
die immediately. Yeah, he said that if I die, you'll

2082
01:57:28.680 --> 01:57:31.399
be wondering how you shot one person. Four people died,

2083
01:57:32.399 --> 01:57:34.840
which is pretty heavy because he says, like, I'll bury

2084
01:57:34.840 --> 01:57:36.159
you in the yard on so he's like, you'll need

2085
01:57:36.159 --> 01:57:40.319
to dig a really, So.

2086
01:57:42.680 --> 01:57:45.199
That's when he does shoot him. He shoots him in

2087
01:57:45.199 --> 01:57:47.600
the leg, and Anna comes back down and she kind of,

2088
01:57:47.640 --> 01:57:50.039
you know, helps out with that. But that's when we

2089
01:57:50.119 --> 01:57:55.680
go to Kim and Bob sitting in their their new room,

2090
01:57:55.720 --> 01:57:57.399
that's set up in the house kind of like a

2091
01:57:57.439 --> 01:58:01.920
hospital room. She's sitting in a wheelchair by the window,

2092
01:58:02.000 --> 01:58:06.319
smoking a cigarette. So cool because Martin's that much of

2093
01:58:06.359 --> 01:58:09.479
an influence on her, and you know, Bob's just kind

2094
01:58:09.479 --> 01:58:13.600
of laying there in bed, and you know, Kim admits like,

2095
01:58:13.640 --> 01:58:15.960
I think I think Martin's right. I think that if

2096
01:58:16.039 --> 01:58:19.119
Dad doesn't make a decision soon on who to kill,

2097
01:58:19.199 --> 01:58:21.760
that all of us are going to die. And and

2098
01:58:22.359 --> 01:58:25.439
she's like, well, logically, you're going to be the first

2099
01:58:25.439 --> 01:58:27.399
one to die because you're the first one that showed

2100
01:58:27.399 --> 01:58:30.560
any symptoms. So Bob, can I have your MP three

2101
01:58:30.680 --> 01:58:31.600
player when you die?

2102
01:58:32.000 --> 01:58:35.000
She she but but we can't do it justice. It's

2103
01:58:35.039 --> 01:58:38.479
not it's it's matter of fact and awful, but also

2104
01:58:40.000 --> 01:58:42.800
sounds it's actually it came off more selfish than it

2105
01:58:42.920 --> 01:58:45.880
sounds when we say it. That yeah, easy, that's simply

2106
01:58:46.760 --> 01:58:48.079
it's very well, just the.

2107
01:58:48.039 --> 01:58:50.920
Whole lead up to it, and her just sitting there,

2108
01:58:51.039 --> 01:58:56.359
you know, smoking a cigarette, not very well no, and

2109
01:58:56.439 --> 01:58:58.239
then just yeah, I figure you're going to be the

2110
01:58:58.239 --> 01:59:01.520
first one to die. And it's been such a tragedy.

2111
01:59:01.560 --> 01:59:04.079
I've lost two MP three players in three.

2112
01:59:03.920 --> 01:59:06.960
Weeks and how I've done that. Yeah, can I have

2113
01:59:07.039 --> 01:59:09.840
your MP three player? Well, and I felt like she

2114
01:59:09.960 --> 01:59:13.560
was kind of suggesting that they would choose her over

2115
01:59:13.680 --> 01:59:16.479
Bob as well. Yeah, And that was one of the

2116
01:59:16.520 --> 01:59:18.960
things that was just like God damn, I mean, because

2117
01:59:19.039 --> 01:59:22.239
because she mentioned that that Martin had told her like

2118
01:59:22.319 --> 01:59:25.000
if he died, they would all die. Yeah, because she says, like,

2119
01:59:25.039 --> 01:59:28.119
I know he's alive because we're alive, which makes me

2120
01:59:28.159 --> 01:59:30.039
think that he's explained some stuff to her.

2121
01:59:30.239 --> 01:59:32.920
Yeah, And again I think it's just to get into

2122
01:59:32.920 --> 01:59:38.199
her head and move that chess piece. And she even

2123
01:59:38.239 --> 01:59:41.239
thinks that once once the decision has been made and

2124
01:59:41.279 --> 01:59:43.479
the you know, the curse or whatever has been lifted,

2125
01:59:43.720 --> 01:59:45.760
she says that she's going to run off with Martin

2126
01:59:46.199 --> 01:59:48.279
like he's he's already promised her, Oh, yeah, you can

2127
01:59:48.279 --> 01:59:50.279
come live with me and my mom. So like she's

2128
01:59:50.319 --> 01:59:54.079
got this whole fantasy in her mind of what is

2129
01:59:54.159 --> 02:00:00.760
happening and what will happen, and Bob doesn't really say

2130
02:00:00.760 --> 02:00:05.760
anything about that. But this is when we learn a

2131
02:00:05.800 --> 02:00:09.920
little bit more about Bob and what his whole motive

2132
02:00:09.960 --> 02:00:13.760
has been this whole time, because he pulls himself out

2133
02:00:13.800 --> 02:00:16.520
of the bed, he crawls across the house. Army crawls,

2134
02:00:16.680 --> 02:00:19.239
grabs a pair of scissors and cuts his own hair,

2135
02:00:20.000 --> 02:00:23.600
and then crawls himself into the kitchen where his dad

2136
02:00:23.720 --> 02:00:26.960
is and says, Dad, I cut my hair like you,

2137
02:00:27.319 --> 02:00:29.199
like you wanted. I don't know why I put it

2138
02:00:29.239 --> 02:00:31.479
off so long. It's so much better now. And he's

2139
02:00:31.600 --> 02:00:38.479
just dying for his father's approval, just absolutely dying for it.

2140
02:00:38.920 --> 02:00:42.239
And that's when you know, Stephen takes him back to

2141
02:00:42.279 --> 02:00:44.439
bed and they start talking about the friends that he has.

2142
02:00:45.800 --> 02:00:49.520
When we see that Steven's kind of recognizing that he

2143
02:00:49.760 --> 02:00:54.279
had been preferring Martin and he had been devoting so

2144
02:00:54.359 --> 02:00:59.079
much time to Martin that he didn't realize could have

2145
02:00:59.119 --> 02:01:02.439
been going to Bob, and that that had that relationship

2146
02:01:02.439 --> 02:01:04.880
with Martin had kind of put a wedge between him

2147
02:01:04.960 --> 02:01:08.600
and his his son. Yeah, so I thought, I thought

2148
02:01:08.640 --> 02:01:12.439
that was very interesting and kind of pulls at your

2149
02:01:12.439 --> 02:01:17.680
heart strengths for the rest of the movie. And Stephen,

2150
02:01:17.960 --> 02:01:24.159
after having that moment with his son, breaks down that night.

2151
02:01:24.319 --> 02:01:26.800
Yeah, it's the one time he like really cries, and

2152
02:01:26.840 --> 02:01:28.399
it's a very very.

2153
02:01:28.319 --> 02:01:32.199
Powerful and very painful. And the next morning he goes

2154
02:01:32.239 --> 02:01:36.239
to the kid's school, and it's yeah, it's such an

2155
02:01:36.279 --> 02:01:41.039
absurd scene. It's so absurd. He goes to his kid's

2156
02:01:41.079 --> 02:01:43.960
school and sits down to talk with the principal and

2157
02:01:44.039 --> 02:01:47.319
starts asking who gets better grades in school? Yeah, and

2158
02:01:47.359 --> 02:01:49.720
the principle's like, oh, well, it's really hard to say,

2159
02:01:49.840 --> 02:01:52.640
Like one kid is doing better in like geography and

2160
02:01:52.720 --> 02:01:55.680
math and the other kid is doing better in you know,

2161
02:01:55.760 --> 02:01:59.880
English and science, but they both get like straight a's.

2162
02:02:00.079 --> 02:02:02.760
He's like, okay, well, which one do you feel is

2163
02:02:02.800 --> 02:02:11.880
more talented? And the and the increasingly confused principle is like, well,

2164
02:02:11.920 --> 02:02:15.439
this one is doing better in like arts and crafts,

2165
02:02:15.479 --> 02:02:17.760
and this one's doing better like in drama in choir.

2166
02:02:18.039 --> 02:02:20.279
Like well, then he finally just says, if you had

2167
02:02:20.319 --> 02:02:23.079
to pick between the two, which would you pick? And

2168
02:02:23.119 --> 02:02:26.520
the Principle's just like I don't know that I can

2169
02:02:26.880 --> 02:02:30.159
do that, which is so great, Like it's just so

2170
02:02:30.840 --> 02:02:32.000
oh man, but that.

2171
02:02:32.079 --> 02:02:35.359
Is yeah, and any other movie it would be kind

2172
02:02:35.359 --> 02:02:38.920
of hilarious because it's like, well, who else would you

2173
02:02:39.039 --> 02:02:40.279
go to ask about.

2174
02:02:40.680 --> 02:02:43.039
It's still funny, but it's funny in a really dark,

2175
02:02:43.119 --> 02:02:45.680
dark way. But it is funny because it's like really

2176
02:02:45.720 --> 02:02:47.960
you go to the freaking principal of the school. Who

2177
02:02:48.000 --> 02:02:50.800
do you like? Because but that's like, but it's funny,

2178
02:02:50.800 --> 02:02:56.760
but it's also thematically an act of massive desperation. Mm hmmm,

2179
02:02:57.000 --> 02:03:01.199
and like almost pathetic. No, no, is pathetic desperation if

2180
02:03:01.199 --> 02:03:05.279
taken at face value, but it only gets worse. And

2181
02:03:05.319 --> 02:03:22.079
we'll talk about that after this. So the principle was no.

2182
02:03:22.119 --> 02:03:24.239
Help, no none whatsoever.

2183
02:03:25.119 --> 02:03:26.640
Uh So.

2184
02:03:26.960 --> 02:03:31.399
Yeah, so now we get a little bit more into

2185
02:03:31.600 --> 02:03:36.399
the head of Anna. She takes the kids down to

2186
02:03:36.560 --> 02:03:40.199
visit Martin in the basement, and she treats his wounds,

2187
02:03:40.760 --> 02:03:44.199
and it was really weird because she also kissed his feet.

2188
02:03:44.600 --> 02:03:46.520
Yes, and I have an opinion about that.

2189
02:03:46.800 --> 02:03:47.560
Give me your opinion.

2190
02:03:47.640 --> 02:03:54.000
Hot so sexy? No, no, uh I that was simply

2191
02:03:54.359 --> 02:03:58.880
her attempting to garner favor exactly, like trying to offer

2192
02:03:59.279 --> 02:04:02.560
penance or something, you know. I mean, I mean, and

2193
02:04:02.600 --> 02:04:05.399
we're talking like old world, I mean, kissing feet is like,

2194
02:04:06.119 --> 02:04:07.800
you know, it's freaking what.

2195
02:04:09.880 --> 02:04:11.560
Ultimate Testament as you can get.

2196
02:04:11.720 --> 02:04:13.079
Yeah, I mean the only way it would have been

2197
02:04:13.079 --> 02:04:16.399
more literally like straight biblical, would be if she'd washed

2198
02:04:16.399 --> 02:04:19.039
his feet. Yeah, which, honestly, I'm shocked it didn't just

2199
02:04:19.239 --> 02:04:20.960
have her drop a basin on the floor and clean

2200
02:04:21.000 --> 02:04:22.239
his feet. But they didn't.

2201
02:04:22.359 --> 02:04:24.600
But she did clean his wounds like clean and treat

2202
02:04:24.640 --> 02:04:26.920
his wounds, which is for sure very close.

2203
02:04:27.239 --> 02:04:31.000
But what she did was she put her family suffering

2204
02:04:31.000 --> 02:04:36.119
family directly in his eyesight and basically, without literally fully

2205
02:04:36.199 --> 02:04:40.840
saying it, said, please spare my family. I submit to

2206
02:04:40.880 --> 02:04:44.159
you in every way. You are basically God if you

2207
02:04:44.239 --> 02:04:50.479
can save my family from this situation. And his response

2208
02:04:50.560 --> 02:04:52.960
is not really anything no to it.

2209
02:04:52.960 --> 02:04:56.119
It's just indifference. Yeah, And the only thing he can

2210
02:04:56.159 --> 02:05:00.159
say is that Bob's gonna die soon, so they need

2211
02:05:00.159 --> 02:05:01.199
to make a decision soon.

2212
02:05:01.359 --> 02:05:04.960
Yeah, And that's where it gets tricky.

2213
02:05:05.039 --> 02:05:05.720
I don't know.

2214
02:05:07.800 --> 02:05:13.399
By theory about his involvement in this curse. I don't know.

2215
02:05:13.920 --> 02:05:16.479
I know, I know because they never tell you outright.

2216
02:05:16.520 --> 02:05:18.640
No, I love that. I love that they don't tell you.

2217
02:05:18.680 --> 02:05:26.520
But my question, my thought is does the curse originate

2218
02:05:27.039 --> 02:05:32.479
with Martin? Or is Martin simply a witness to the curse?

2219
02:05:33.479 --> 02:05:40.720
Woh Perhaps for a bigger sense of vengeance, Martin could

2220
02:05:40.840 --> 02:05:44.800
suggest that he is in control of it, or that

2221
02:05:44.880 --> 02:05:47.359
he has some kind of special insight, or that he

2222
02:05:47.399 --> 02:05:50.439
can have any effect on it. That could be a bluff.

2223
02:05:51.000 --> 02:05:53.800
M hm. He could have simply been made aware by

2224
02:05:53.840 --> 02:05:57.079
whatever forces are be that like this is going to happen,

2225
02:05:57.359 --> 02:06:01.159
and this is going to rectify your family lost and

2226
02:06:01.199 --> 02:06:03.920
that's all he has. He could be playing it up

2227
02:06:03.960 --> 02:06:06.680
that he knows anything more than that. You know. The

2228
02:06:06.720 --> 02:06:08.880
reason he was always hanging around might because he's just

2229
02:06:08.920 --> 02:06:13.159
desperately waiting to see when it starts. Her walking to

2230
02:06:13.239 --> 02:06:15.439
that window because he said she could. That could have

2231
02:06:15.439 --> 02:06:18.319
been a total fluke. She had just started being sick.

2232
02:06:19.039 --> 02:06:22.159
Even Bob walked a little bit after he first lost

2233
02:06:22.159 --> 02:06:25.359
feeling in his legs, but eventually he lost it completely.

2234
02:06:27.159 --> 02:06:34.000
So all he's done is watch them gravel. And that

2235
02:06:34.159 --> 02:06:38.319
moment when he doesn't have sex with the daughter, what

2236
02:06:38.439 --> 02:06:41.600
if that wasn't because of my first thought of like, oh,

2237
02:06:41.640 --> 02:06:44.079
I'm not here for me. What if that was because

2238
02:06:44.119 --> 02:06:45.720
he was like, I know what's gonna happen and there

2239
02:06:45.720 --> 02:06:50.079
ain't no stopping it. A So so part of me

2240
02:06:50.159 --> 02:06:53.600
wonders if he is actually a bystander, because this is

2241
02:06:53.680 --> 02:06:58.680
beyond people. This is something deeper, you know, you know,

2242
02:06:58.960 --> 02:07:01.520
this is from God's that we can't even say the

2243
02:07:01.600 --> 02:07:05.239
names of you know, what if that's what's going on

2244
02:07:05.319 --> 02:07:08.319
and it's not that it was generated from his massive

2245
02:07:08.359 --> 02:07:12.359
sense of loss and pain, or it could be that.

2246
02:07:12.640 --> 02:07:14.640
I get the argument for that as well, that he

2247
02:07:14.840 --> 02:07:16.520
is the source of this because he is the only

2248
02:07:16.560 --> 02:07:18.439
person who knows what's going on. He's the only person

2249
02:07:18.439 --> 02:07:21.159
who knows the rules. It could go either way. Yeah,

2250
02:07:21.159 --> 02:07:22.600
but part of me is like, what if this is

2251
02:07:22.760 --> 02:07:25.760
just the weather. What if this is just a hurricane

2252
02:07:25.880 --> 02:07:29.520
and all he did was read the Doppler radar. I

2253
02:07:29.560 --> 02:07:33.800
don't know, but that's my thought on it. I don't

2254
02:07:33.840 --> 02:07:35.359
know what you think of it. You're allowed to call

2255
02:07:35.399 --> 02:07:38.560
me stupid only twice per episode, so get your film.

2256
02:07:38.600 --> 02:07:43.199
Oh man, No, I mean, I'm just trying to find

2257
02:07:43.279 --> 02:07:46.000
any under any other indicator in the story that it

2258
02:07:46.119 --> 02:07:48.760
is outside of him. And the problem is like, there

2259
02:07:48.880 --> 02:07:53.000
is no other source that is addressed in the story.

2260
02:07:53.479 --> 02:07:57.079
While there are themes that are mildly religious, there is

2261
02:07:57.359 --> 02:08:00.399
I feel like any other movie I've seen where does

2262
02:08:00.520 --> 02:08:06.760
originate from a greater power that is addressed either thematically

2263
02:08:07.159 --> 02:08:10.359
or in some other way throughout the rest of the film.

2264
02:08:10.680 --> 02:08:14.760
I get that, but here's my counter to that. There's

2265
02:08:14.840 --> 02:08:18.640
no example of him actually commanding any of this. He

2266
02:08:18.680 --> 02:08:21.960
doesn't even say what's going to happen until it's already happening.

2267
02:08:22.359 --> 02:08:26.880
You could make the argument that he's observing and not participating.

2268
02:08:27.720 --> 02:08:30.000
That's kind of my thought, Like there's never a moment

2269
02:08:30.000 --> 02:08:33.000
where he like touched somebody and yeah's sick, or there's

2270
02:08:33.000 --> 02:08:34.640
never a moment where he said, Okay, I'll stop it

2271
02:08:34.680 --> 02:08:38.079
for a second and then they were fine. That walking scene,

2272
02:08:38.199 --> 02:08:42.680
while telling and I could be wrong, was so brief

2273
02:08:42.880 --> 02:08:48.159
and so early in her illness. I just don't know'

2274
02:08:48.319 --> 02:08:50.159
that's my thought. But I mean I don't I don't

2275
02:08:50.199 --> 02:08:52.720
disagree with the idea that it originates from him. That

2276
02:08:52.760 --> 02:08:55.760
seems to be what everything's pushing towards. But some of

2277
02:08:55.800 --> 02:08:58.079
the time, it just like I didn't think he seemed

2278
02:08:58.079 --> 02:09:01.920
indifferent to their plight. I think he seemed powerless. I

2279
02:09:02.039 --> 02:09:05.960
I because he didn't even really placate the idea or

2280
02:09:06.000 --> 02:09:07.880
even say like, oh, I just don't feel like it.

2281
02:09:07.880 --> 02:09:10.840
He just kind of shuts down once they're begging. Because

2282
02:09:11.079 --> 02:09:12.680
part of me was like, maybe it's because he literally

2283
02:09:12.720 --> 02:09:13.960
can't do anything about it.

2284
02:09:14.159 --> 02:09:17.880
Well, and and to a degree, he does have a

2285
02:09:18.039 --> 02:09:22.960
sense of now that this is all in motion. There's

2286
02:09:23.039 --> 02:09:26.399
nothing he could do to stop it. I see that too,

2287
02:09:29.000 --> 02:09:31.680
because because he you know, again, that goes back into

2288
02:09:31.720 --> 02:09:34.159
well you could kill him, but then everyone's gonna die, and.

2289
02:09:34.159 --> 02:09:36.119
Which could aff which could have been.

2290
02:09:39.840 --> 02:09:42.520
So yeah, I don't know, that's that's very interesting. I

2291
02:09:42.640 --> 02:09:46.439
just I don't. I don't see it in the film.

2292
02:09:46.520 --> 02:09:48.760
But if you do, then well no, it's it's more

2293
02:09:48.800 --> 02:09:51.279
what I don't see, which is him having any actual

2294
02:09:51.319 --> 02:09:55.720
effect on the situation beyond observing what's already happening. Mm hmm,

2295
02:09:56.039 --> 02:09:58.640
like he I mean, predicting the eyes we're gonna bleed

2296
02:09:58.720 --> 02:10:01.279
is the closest thing. But again, it was all in

2297
02:10:01.319 --> 02:10:04.039
motion already by the time he told us that that

2298
02:10:04.159 --> 02:10:06.479
was going to happen. That's why it just makes me wonder,

2299
02:10:06.640 --> 02:10:09.439
because he doesn't come off as omniscient or omnipotent to

2300
02:10:09.560 --> 02:10:13.439
the plight except when he wants to, which is really

2301
02:10:13.520 --> 02:10:18.439
just to torment, to torment Stephen, which is the whole goal.

2302
02:10:18.720 --> 02:10:20.520
So I don't know, it's just it's I mean, it's

2303
02:10:20.560 --> 02:10:23.520
just that's the part where I'm not sure, because they

2304
02:10:23.560 --> 02:10:26.760
never show him incanting in any way, you know, they

2305
02:10:26.760 --> 02:10:31.760
never show him moving anything into motion. He's kind of

2306
02:10:31.800 --> 02:10:35.800
there as well, So I don't know. Yeah, because like

2307
02:10:36.119 --> 02:10:38.600
him being around all the time also makes me wonder,

2308
02:10:39.680 --> 02:10:44.039
Like it makes me wonder if all he knew was

2309
02:10:44.079 --> 02:10:48.199
that it would happen someday. He never had any idea

2310
02:10:48.279 --> 02:10:51.760
when or how or whatever. All he knew was that

2311
02:10:51.760 --> 02:10:54.880
one day they would start having these things happen. That's

2312
02:10:54.880 --> 02:10:57.439
why he was always hanging around, why he was sneaking

2313
02:10:57.479 --> 02:10:59.680
around while he was constantly bugging him, because he's like,

2314
02:10:59.680 --> 02:11:01.439
it's got to happen. It's gonna happen, and I want

2315
02:11:01.439 --> 02:11:05.359
to know when it's happening. And then maybe maybe that's

2316
02:11:05.399 --> 02:11:10.039
why things got messy with the daughter, because maybe he

2317
02:11:10.039 --> 02:11:11.680
thought he was never even going to meet the family

2318
02:11:13.720 --> 02:11:15.359
that it was just because it was already, it was

2319
02:11:15.399 --> 02:11:19.760
already in motion. And maybe he's maybe maybe it's a

2320
02:11:19.800 --> 02:11:22.479
split the difference. Maybe he is the catalyst, but he

2321
02:11:22.600 --> 02:11:27.359
is not literally the commander. You know. Maybe he, you know,

2322
02:11:28.039 --> 02:11:31.079
somehow put into the universe that this needs to happen,

2323
02:11:31.720 --> 02:11:33.600
but he's not like able to sit there and be like,

2324
02:11:33.600 --> 02:11:36.000
and it needs to happen on Wednesday, and then she

2325
02:11:36.119 --> 02:11:38.960
needs to walk again, and then this, and that's that's

2326
02:11:39.039 --> 02:11:40.000
kind of my other thought.

2327
02:11:40.239 --> 02:11:45.159
Well, and the thing about the thing about like old

2328
02:11:45.520 --> 02:11:48.199
the old concept of curses is even if you do

2329
02:11:48.359 --> 02:11:51.359
enact the curse, you do not have control over the curse.

2330
02:11:51.399 --> 02:11:55.720
The curse is its own thing. So that plays into

2331
02:11:55.880 --> 02:11:59.000
what you are saying. I just don't see there's like

2332
02:11:59.039 --> 02:12:02.840
a bigger power that's enacting this in the universe.

2333
02:12:03.479 --> 02:12:07.680
I didn't say that at all. I actually was actually

2334
02:12:07.720 --> 02:12:11.319
to me him being behind it is a power. I'm

2335
02:12:11.319 --> 02:12:15.199
saying that it's literally the weather mm hmm. That it's

2336
02:12:15.279 --> 02:12:18.960
just like it's like a hurricane. Yeah, there's something behind it.

2337
02:12:18.960 --> 02:12:22.319
It's just happening, and he's been forewarned about it because

2338
02:12:23.479 --> 02:12:26.119
for some reason, and that's why he's able to know it. Yeah,

2339
02:12:26.159 --> 02:12:27.920
that was kind of my point is that there is

2340
02:12:27.960 --> 02:12:31.960
no I don't know where you got this abrahamic aside

2341
02:12:32.000 --> 02:12:33.680
to it, because I wasn't thinking that at all. My

2342
02:12:33.720 --> 02:12:36.920
point was that there's even less thought behind this, that

2343
02:12:36.960 --> 02:12:40.399
it's even less of a of a of a reality

2344
02:12:40.439 --> 02:12:43.239
of thought, of a person of attention. That's kind of

2345
02:12:43.279 --> 02:12:44.000
what my point was.

2346
02:12:44.399 --> 02:12:46.079
Yeah, Okay, I see what you're saying.

2347
02:12:46.520 --> 02:12:50.000
Okay, fine, looking at me like I'm so stupid. Well,

2348
02:12:50.000 --> 02:12:51.479
we're going to take a break and when we get back,

2349
02:12:51.560 --> 02:13:06.319
Rachel's going to learn to respect me. Just kidding, all right.

2350
02:13:06.399 --> 02:13:10.880
So we're back and heading into the conclusion of the

2351
02:13:10.960 --> 02:13:14.800
killing of a sacred deer and things are getting really

2352
02:13:14.840 --> 02:13:15.399
messy now.

2353
02:13:16.479 --> 02:13:22.279
So to make things even messier, that night, Anna tries

2354
02:13:22.359 --> 02:13:27.239
to seduce Stephen and at first we don't quite get why,

2355
02:13:27.279 --> 02:13:31.680
because I get like, yeah, it could be fun, but

2356
02:13:31.720 --> 02:13:35.000
there's a lot of heavy stuff going on in the family,

2357
02:13:35.079 --> 02:13:37.800
so this seems like an odd time to choose sexy time.

2358
02:13:38.880 --> 02:13:43.800
And you know, he kind of declines, and she finally

2359
02:13:43.880 --> 02:13:46.680
just lays it out to him. She says, I think

2360
02:13:46.680 --> 02:13:49.920
we should kill one of the children because there's still

2361
02:13:49.920 --> 02:13:52.520
two of us and I'm still able to have children,

2362
02:13:52.520 --> 02:13:54.479
and you're still able to have children, so we can

2363
02:13:54.560 --> 02:13:55.359
just make another one.

2364
02:13:56.720 --> 02:14:00.520
And this is why I have my feelings about her,

2365
02:14:00.560 --> 02:14:03.479
because that's where she lands because to be frank, and

2366
02:14:03.520 --> 02:14:06.319
maybe this is because my mom was very vocal about

2367
02:14:06.359 --> 02:14:10.800
how myself and my sister were more important than anything

2368
02:14:10.840 --> 02:14:13.960
on the earth. The way I was taught, my mom

2369
02:14:14.000 --> 02:14:17.399
would have volunteered to die for her children. That's that's

2370
02:14:17.399 --> 02:14:19.199
the way. That's I'm not saying my mom would, but

2371
02:14:19.239 --> 02:14:21.359
that's my mother taught me. That's the way the world

2372
02:14:21.399 --> 02:14:26.960
should work in that that's that's compassion. That's moral to

2373
02:14:27.039 --> 02:14:29.399
die for your children, if that, if that were a choice. Yeah,

2374
02:14:29.479 --> 02:14:31.600
my mom taught me that. So that's so that became

2375
02:14:31.640 --> 02:14:34.359
my instinct because that's how I was I was raised.

2376
02:14:37.279 --> 02:14:40.039
Her laying naked with him is two things to me.

2377
02:14:40.520 --> 02:14:44.359
Number one, an act, the final act of desperation. She

2378
02:14:44.600 --> 02:14:48.640
literally threw herself at the feet of who she believed

2379
02:14:48.720 --> 02:14:52.079
was trying to kill them, before throwing herself at the

2380
02:14:52.119 --> 02:14:57.239
feet of her own friggin' husband because she's realized, now,

2381
02:14:57.359 --> 02:15:02.159
you're my only hope, which granted, you know, she did

2382
02:15:02.199 --> 02:15:05.239
hope that no one would have to die on the

2383
02:15:05.239 --> 02:15:07.640
other version, or maybe only he would have to die,

2384
02:15:07.640 --> 02:15:09.159
you know, I'm sure she would have traded his life,

2385
02:15:09.159 --> 02:15:12.079
no problem. Yeah, But so that's number one. She's trying

2386
02:15:12.119 --> 02:15:17.920
to gain his garner his favor in the most shallow way.

2387
02:15:18.680 --> 02:15:22.560
And that's the part that really blows my mind. She

2388
02:15:22.760 --> 02:15:25.479
thinks so little of him at this point in the

2389
02:15:25.520 --> 02:15:29.840
story that she's like, oh, well, he'll still want to

2390
02:15:29.840 --> 02:15:34.039
bang and he likes that, right, because he's a heartless,

2391
02:15:34.079 --> 02:15:39.600
dumb man brute. The last thing on his mind is sex.

2392
02:15:40.680 --> 02:15:43.439
The last thing on his mind is anything not literally

2393
02:15:43.520 --> 02:15:46.399
related to the people living in his home. He is

2394
02:15:46.920 --> 02:15:50.159
like that blew my mind. That, like she's so desperate

2395
02:15:50.199 --> 02:15:52.119
that she's just kind of like, well, he's a caveman, right,

2396
02:15:52.199 --> 02:15:55.000
Like this will make him like me, very sad in

2397
02:15:55.039 --> 02:15:55.680
every direction.

2398
02:15:55.920 --> 02:15:58.920
Oh yeah, yeah no, And I think it's supposed to

2399
02:15:58.920 --> 02:15:59.520
play on that.

2400
02:15:59.720 --> 02:16:04.000
I think so too. Oh. Absolutely, desperation is the key element. Yeah,

2401
02:16:04.039 --> 02:16:07.119
you know, she's just desperate and clueless. Clueless is harsh.

2402
02:16:07.199 --> 02:16:10.399
What I mean is like there's like she is completely

2403
02:16:10.439 --> 02:16:13.119
and utterly out of ideas. Yeah, there's nothing else left

2404
02:16:13.119 --> 02:16:14.800
to do. Yeah, she's got nothing.

2405
02:16:14.920 --> 02:16:19.800
Yeah. Yeah's it's like absolutely and that that plays into

2406
02:16:19.840 --> 02:16:24.760
this next sequence because in the next sequence, it's kind

2407
02:16:24.760 --> 02:16:28.000
of all jumbled up. At first, we see Kim going

2408
02:16:28.039 --> 02:16:33.000
downstairs to talk to Martin by herself and kind of

2409
02:16:33.079 --> 02:16:36.479
dragging herself along the floor, and then we see her

2410
02:16:36.799 --> 02:16:40.280
being held by her dad in the living room on

2411
02:16:40.319 --> 02:16:42.479
the couch and her knees are all scraped up and

2412
02:16:42.520 --> 02:16:44.840
she's saying, you know, I would die for you. You need

2413
02:16:44.879 --> 02:16:47.200
to make this decision and you should kill me because

2414
02:16:47.600 --> 02:16:51.280
I love you so much, basically, And we keep getting

2415
02:16:51.319 --> 02:16:54.000
bits and pieces of this scene and we realize that

2416
02:16:54.760 --> 02:16:58.040
Kim's gone downstairs to talk to Martin to kind of

2417
02:16:58.079 --> 02:17:01.440
plead with him in her own way, and that's when

2418
02:17:01.440 --> 02:17:05.280
she finally realizes, like he does not have any feelings

2419
02:17:05.319 --> 02:17:09.239
for her whatsoever, you know, kind of like what you said,

2420
02:17:09.280 --> 02:17:11.399
this is all just the weather to him, this is

2421
02:17:11.479 --> 02:17:12.079
just happening.

2422
02:17:12.159 --> 02:17:14.799
Well. And after being tied in the basement and tortured,

2423
02:17:14.840 --> 02:17:17.520
I have a feeling that if he did have some actual, soft,

2424
02:17:17.520 --> 02:17:22.040
squeaky human feelings about much, you can get access right

2425
02:17:22.079 --> 02:17:25.239
now no more. Yah. Yeah.

2426
02:17:24.520 --> 02:17:31.079
So after, you know, after he's kind of denied her,

2427
02:17:31.959 --> 02:17:35.600
is when Kim just tried to take off on her

2428
02:17:35.639 --> 02:17:38.200
own and ended up scraping up her knees, and that's

2429
02:17:38.239 --> 02:17:41.680
when she's pleading with her dad, like please choose me

2430
02:17:43.520 --> 02:17:45.559
and and for me. I kind of got the feeling

2431
02:17:45.600 --> 02:17:48.440
that was kind of also the teenage angst and desperation

2432
02:17:48.760 --> 02:17:51.360
of being like, I just can't take it anymore because

2433
02:17:51.399 --> 02:17:55.920
this one person I like doesn't like me. It's kind

2434
02:17:55.920 --> 02:18:00.000
of her acting out, but she does clearly love her family,

2435
02:18:00.719 --> 02:18:03.520
it's just this insistent that she loves her family so

2436
02:18:03.760 --> 02:18:07.040
much that that's why this decision needs to be made.

2437
02:18:07.680 --> 02:18:10.760
Let me tell you my cynical viewpoint of this, based

2438
02:18:10.760 --> 02:18:17.040
on being a relative, a somewhat only child. Not really,

2439
02:18:17.159 --> 02:18:18.799
my sister was not around very much because she was

2440
02:18:18.879 --> 02:18:24.000
much older than me. But I read it as now

2441
02:18:24.040 --> 02:18:26.639
that he's not going to save me, I need to

2442
02:18:26.840 --> 02:18:29.840
beg Daddy to save me, and saying you should kill

2443
02:18:29.879 --> 02:18:32.079
me is the best way to not be the one

2444
02:18:32.079 --> 02:18:35.760
who gets killed. That was the way I read it.

2445
02:18:35.799 --> 02:18:38.879
I read it as as if I am the most pious.

2446
02:18:39.280 --> 02:18:41.479
I love that word. If I am the most pious,

2447
02:18:41.520 --> 02:18:43.079
then I will be fine because you know, there's that

2448
02:18:43.120 --> 02:18:45.239
whole joke though, where it's like, well, what was it?

2449
02:18:45.319 --> 02:18:47.879
What was that cartoon? There was some cartoon where it

2450
02:18:47.920 --> 02:18:50.120
was like where it was like, well, I don't even

2451
02:18:50.280 --> 02:18:52.760
need anything for Christmas. I'll be fine. See, I'm gonna

2452
02:18:52.760 --> 02:18:54.920
get twice as much now because I said the good thing,

2453
02:18:55.319 --> 02:18:55.719
you know.

2454
02:18:55.879 --> 02:18:58.719
Yeah, yeah, I gave the good response, So now I'm

2455
02:18:58.719 --> 02:18:59.559
going to get what I want.

2456
02:19:00.079 --> 02:19:02.159
Said the thing that's morally right, so I'll get way

2457
02:19:02.200 --> 02:19:05.120
more reward. And that was kind of what I got

2458
02:19:05.120 --> 02:19:07.600
from her because she was very like, all of a sudden,

2459
02:19:07.680 --> 02:19:12.280
she's not a burgeoning young woman who needs to make

2460
02:19:12.319 --> 02:19:15.879
choices for herself like smoking cigarettes and riding on motorcycles. Now,

2461
02:19:15.920 --> 02:19:19.399
all of a sudden, she's Daddy's little girl again. And Daddy,

2462
02:19:19.440 --> 02:19:21.079
I love you all so much that if you want

2463
02:19:21.120 --> 02:19:22.719
to kill me, I would never be mad at you

2464
02:19:22.760 --> 02:19:23.040
for it.

2465
02:19:24.159 --> 02:19:25.639
Yeah, no, I get that, but I'm not.

2466
02:19:25.559 --> 02:19:27.280
Saying I'm completely right, But that was the way I

2467
02:19:27.319 --> 02:19:29.159
read it. No, I could see so because I am

2468
02:19:29.200 --> 02:19:33.719
a bad person and I don't trust anybody. Apparently both

2469
02:19:33.719 --> 02:19:35.920
hands wearing see them. Thank you.

2470
02:19:38.280 --> 02:19:44.559
So we have that little sequence, and then we're starting

2471
02:19:44.600 --> 02:19:47.399
to get toward the final moments of the film, because

2472
02:19:47.399 --> 02:19:52.479
then we go and we see Bob it's just sitting

2473
02:19:52.520 --> 02:19:56.079
there listening to his MP three player for now, for Now,

2474
02:19:57.600 --> 02:20:06.040
and start to bleed pretty profusely and it's not subtle.

2475
02:20:06.760 --> 02:20:10.079
So Stephen goes and is like wiping off his eyes,

2476
02:20:10.600 --> 02:20:13.639
and they have kind of this heart felt moment where

2477
02:20:14.799 --> 02:20:18.280
he's trying to promise that nobody in the family is

2478
02:20:18.319 --> 02:20:21.079
going to die, but he can't really make that promise

2479
02:20:21.159 --> 02:20:24.159
because he doesn't even know what's going on. Anymore, and

2480
02:20:24.200 --> 02:20:28.159
he's out of options. So he runs and he asks

2481
02:20:28.200 --> 02:20:32.120
Anna where Martin is because he's not in the basement anymore,

2482
02:20:32.159 --> 02:20:34.520
and she just admits, I let him go, like there

2483
02:20:34.600 --> 02:20:37.920
was no reason for us to do this, and we

2484
02:20:38.000 --> 02:20:43.600
need to all just get over this, and we need

2485
02:20:43.639 --> 02:20:48.680
to make a decision fast, because holding him captive wasn't

2486
02:20:48.879 --> 02:20:49.840
doing anything well.

2487
02:20:50.159 --> 02:20:52.719
But she doesn't even know yet that Bob is going

2488
02:20:52.760 --> 02:20:54.399
to die in a matter of hours now, because then

2489
02:20:54.399 --> 02:20:57.559
he tells her Bob's eyes are bleeding. That moment when

2490
02:20:57.559 --> 02:21:02.440
he's cleaning Bob's eyes, I believe was when he entered acceptance,

2491
02:21:03.079 --> 02:21:05.399
and when it dawned on me that the entire family

2492
02:21:05.440 --> 02:21:08.399
is going through literally the stages of grief, the traditional

2493
02:21:08.440 --> 02:21:14.559
stages of grief, because they bargained, they got angry, and

2494
02:21:14.639 --> 02:21:19.040
in that moment, he reached acceptance. I don't feel like

2495
02:21:19.079 --> 02:21:23.079
the family reached it with Stephen, but that's because, unfortunately,

2496
02:21:23.280 --> 02:21:25.440
I think one of the big elements of this movie

2497
02:21:26.280 --> 02:21:29.920
is that it really doesn't matter what any of them think,

2498
02:21:30.079 --> 02:21:34.680
because it's up to him, and that is the cruelty

2499
02:21:35.559 --> 02:21:39.280
for all of them, especially Stephen. Not even I would

2500
02:21:39.280 --> 02:21:42.000
say he's suffering more than all of them. Yeah, because

2501
02:21:42.040 --> 02:21:45.000
he's the one who has to make the impossible choice.

2502
02:21:45.040 --> 02:21:49.319
The impossible choice so impossible that it's literally the cliche

2503
02:21:49.360 --> 02:21:51.399
like example you give when you're trying to explain what

2504
02:21:51.440 --> 02:21:53.719
an impossible choice is, like, like a father having to

2505
02:21:53.760 --> 02:21:55.639
choose what family member has to die so that the

2506
02:21:55.639 --> 02:21:56.280
rest of you live.

2507
02:21:56.680 --> 02:21:58.360
That's so oddly specific.

2508
02:21:58.799 --> 02:22:01.399
It's the hypothetical we all go for when we want

2509
02:22:01.440 --> 02:22:05.520
to describe something being impossible to choose. So that moment,

2510
02:22:05.719 --> 02:22:08.239
I think that's he not only accepts that this is

2511
02:22:08.239 --> 02:22:10.200
going to happen, but he accepts that this is entirely

2512
02:22:10.280 --> 02:22:12.959
up to him, that this will always level on him,

2513
02:22:14.120 --> 02:22:17.399
and that if something isn't done, worse things will happen.

2514
02:22:18.719 --> 02:22:22.440
And in that way, he does the ultimate dad thing.

2515
02:22:23.319 --> 02:22:27.159
He's going to sacrifice it of himself for them now

2516
02:22:27.280 --> 02:22:31.680
by sacrificing one of them, which is messy, it's a

2517
02:22:31.760 --> 02:22:34.159
very messy concept. But he's the one who have to

2518
02:22:34.200 --> 02:22:36.239
live for the rest of his life knowing that he

2519
02:22:36.280 --> 02:22:38.520
did that. They'll have to live knowing he did that.

2520
02:22:38.559 --> 02:22:44.079
But that's way less of a pain than doing it. Bah.

2521
02:22:44.120 --> 02:22:50.399
I mean, it's so so sad and painful. So at

2522
02:22:50.399 --> 02:22:54.319
that moment. Shortly thereafter, he goes to his wife. He says,

2523
02:22:54.360 --> 02:22:56.559
I meet me down in the living room. We need

2524
02:22:56.559 --> 02:22:59.600
to talk right now. And she says, okay, well, I'm

2525
02:22:59.600 --> 02:23:01.200
going to put on that dress you like. And he's like,

2526
02:23:01.399 --> 02:23:03.200
I don't care what you wear, just make it quick.

2527
02:23:03.680 --> 02:23:05.360
And she's where are the kids. He's like, they're already

2528
02:23:05.399 --> 02:23:09.680
down there. And what we see next shocked me. And

2529
02:23:09.719 --> 02:23:24.559
that's why I'm putting a commercial here, hah. So here

2530
02:23:24.600 --> 02:23:31.959
we go. We now see that the whole family are

2531
02:23:32.000 --> 02:23:35.719
tied up and their mouths are duct taped shut. On

2532
02:23:35.760 --> 02:23:40.079
the couch. There's Bob on two chairs across from each other.

2533
02:23:40.200 --> 02:23:46.040
You have the daughter and the mother. I thought the

2534
02:23:46.079 --> 02:23:51.280
mouths being taped shut was a really brilliant decision artistically,

2535
02:23:51.360 --> 02:23:56.559
I mean because and literally I mean for the character,

2536
02:23:56.600 --> 02:23:59.959
because at this point he's put it off so long

2537
02:24:01.040 --> 02:24:06.239
that it's almost over for Bob, which you know which,

2538
02:24:06.360 --> 02:24:08.479
And because it's important to remember that in this curse,

2539
02:24:08.520 --> 02:24:10.559
it doesn't count if Bob dies from the.

2540
02:24:10.559 --> 02:24:12.840
Curse, yeah, because it's still just gonna keep going.

2541
02:24:13.120 --> 02:24:15.319
Then it'll keep going. So if he doesn't decide soon,

2542
02:24:15.360 --> 02:24:18.040
he's gonna lose two family members. In order to stop this.

2543
02:24:19.399 --> 02:24:22.879
So I feel like that's why there they're gag too.

2544
02:24:22.959 --> 02:24:25.200
Is He's like, I can't hear any more arguments, I

2545
02:24:25.200 --> 02:24:29.600
can't hear any more questions any more begging anything. It happens, right,

2546
02:24:29.799 --> 02:24:31.559
very very Dad on vacation.

2547
02:24:32.280 --> 02:24:35.079
No no, no, no, no, no, no, no more sodas, No more this.

2548
02:24:35.479 --> 02:24:38.399
We're in the car, we're on our way seven point thirty.

2549
02:24:38.399 --> 02:24:45.559
Except it's about murdering somebody. So but I'm laughing, you know,

2550
02:24:45.680 --> 02:24:46.600
it's gonna be so sad.

2551
02:24:46.680 --> 02:24:50.280
So we see that he has a rifle, the rifle

2552
02:24:50.280 --> 02:24:54.520
that he had almost killed Martin with, and he takes

2553
02:24:54.559 --> 02:24:58.239
his his knitted hat, pulls it over, pulls it over

2554
02:24:58.280 --> 02:25:02.319
his eyes, and starts spinning in a circle and then

2555
02:25:02.360 --> 02:25:06.040
firing the gun. This is a great example of the

2556
02:25:06.120 --> 02:25:08.159
kind of dark humor you get from your ghost because

2557
02:25:08.159 --> 02:25:12.239
while this is a very heavy, painful, awful, truly heinous scene,

2558
02:25:13.319 --> 02:25:14.760
that's silly.

2559
02:25:15.079 --> 02:25:16.040
It is it is.

2560
02:25:16.559 --> 02:25:18.719
It's a childish solution, and it's not.

2561
02:25:18.680 --> 02:25:21.319
Played up as silly. But there are silly moments as

2562
02:25:21.319 --> 02:25:24.879
he's sitting there, you know, like spinning around any almost trips.

2563
02:25:25.200 --> 02:25:28.000
Yeah, Well that's the point is it doesn't matter. It

2564
02:25:28.040 --> 02:25:32.440
doesn't have to be it is. The concept is silly

2565
02:25:32.520 --> 02:25:35.399
in and of itself. Yes, the context is not, but

2566
02:25:35.479 --> 02:25:37.559
the concept is if that makes I think that's the

2567
02:25:37.559 --> 02:25:41.200
way that does make. So, like, contextually, this is what

2568
02:25:41.239 --> 02:25:45.040
you have to do, but conceptually this is ridiculous. Also,

2569
02:25:45.159 --> 02:25:47.079
you know, they're all spaced out like eight or nine

2570
02:25:47.120 --> 02:25:49.280
feet apart, so like the likelihood of getting a hit

2571
02:25:49.440 --> 02:25:52.920
is really slip. Well, but he's decided that the only

2572
02:25:52.959 --> 02:25:55.520
way that he can do this in the time This

2573
02:25:55.600 --> 02:25:57.680
is the way I interpreted it. The only way he could

2574
02:25:57.680 --> 02:26:00.840
do this in the time allotted was this way. Oh yeah,

2575
02:26:00.920 --> 02:26:03.120
because there was no way in an hour he was

2576
02:26:03.159 --> 02:26:06.600
going to make a decision probably never would ever at all.

2577
02:26:07.120 --> 02:26:08.959
So he's like, I'm gonna make it random and then

2578
02:26:09.000 --> 02:26:12.280
just live with it. That's the sense I got.

2579
02:26:12.559 --> 02:26:16.440
No, I absolutely agree, because he had done all the

2580
02:26:16.479 --> 02:26:20.360
deliberating and he's done all the consideration, and he is

2581
02:26:20.399 --> 02:26:24.399
a very logical person. So it's not like, you know,

2582
02:26:24.520 --> 02:26:31.920
this can be for him just a flippant decision. It

2583
02:26:32.000 --> 02:26:34.079
had to be fully considered. But the problem is he

2584
02:26:34.159 --> 02:26:38.959
is so paralyzed by that that the only way to

2585
02:26:39.000 --> 02:26:41.159
do it is random chance and the only thing he

2586
02:26:41.200 --> 02:26:46.239
can think of is basically the rifle version of Duc

2587
02:26:46.319 --> 02:26:46.879
duck Goose.

2588
02:26:48.879 --> 02:26:51.120
I feel like there's actually a game that's exactly what

2589
02:26:51.200 --> 02:26:53.280
they're doing, and I can't think of it, like where

2590
02:26:53.280 --> 02:26:56.799
somebody's blindfolded and has to like but yeah, right, but

2591
02:26:56.879 --> 02:26:59.559
duck nut Goose is not a bad example. So yeah,

2592
02:26:59.600 --> 02:27:03.680
he's spins fires the gun, just barely misses. His daughter,

2593
02:27:05.040 --> 02:27:09.680
takes up the hood, sees what happened, cocks the gun,

2594
02:27:09.799 --> 02:27:13.520
pulls it back down, tries again, just barely misses. His wife,

2595
02:27:14.959 --> 02:27:19.079
takes off the hood, sees what's happening again, spins fires,

2596
02:27:21.159 --> 02:27:23.079
and oh and I forget to mention he covers their faces,

2597
02:27:23.159 --> 02:27:26.799
which is another kindness of him, even though him missing

2598
02:27:26.879 --> 02:27:32.280
twice mat didn't, you know, negates a lot of the

2599
02:27:32.280 --> 02:27:34.680
the suffering from fear. He was trying to spare them.

2600
02:27:34.799 --> 02:27:35.639
Yeah, he really was.

2601
02:27:35.680 --> 02:27:38.959
And I think and I think that when he conceptualized it,

2602
02:27:39.040 --> 02:27:40.200
he thought it would work smoothly.

2603
02:27:41.159 --> 02:27:43.120
Yeah, because that's what you hope.

2604
02:27:43.040 --> 02:27:45.200
When you're in an absolute mortal panic.

2605
02:27:45.399 --> 02:27:46.559
Yeah.

2606
02:27:45.799 --> 02:27:50.959
Yeah, so, uh So on the third shot, we reveal

2607
02:27:52.440 --> 02:27:56.319
Bob has been shot in the chest and he's bleeding,

2608
02:27:58.559 --> 02:28:01.639
but the curse will as far as we know, be over.

2609
02:28:04.600 --> 02:28:14.079
And goddamn, what a harsh, sad moment. This is one

2610
02:28:14.079 --> 02:28:15.559
of the movies that gets so sad you have to

2611
02:28:15.639 --> 02:28:19.799
kind of laugh about it. So then, if I'm remembering correctly,

2612
02:28:19.920 --> 02:28:22.200
we go to some time later.

2613
02:28:22.799 --> 02:28:26.760
Yeah, it's not really revealed, but it's shortly in the future.

2614
02:28:26.959 --> 02:28:31.440
And we're at the diner that Stephen and Martin had

2615
02:28:31.479 --> 02:28:36.600
met at. His family is sitting eating and Martin walks in,

2616
02:28:37.799 --> 02:28:43.200
and as he walks in, they all ignore him, try

2617
02:28:43.200 --> 02:28:45.600
to at least they notice him, and then are like,

2618
02:28:45.600 --> 02:28:47.319
I'm not gonna look at him. I'm not gonna whatever,

2619
02:28:47.840 --> 02:28:52.120
No way. Even the daughter tries to ignore him, but

2620
02:28:52.159 --> 02:28:55.959
eventually she starts sneaking a glance, you know. But then

2621
02:28:56.000 --> 02:28:58.159
she looks at her food and it's trying to hear food.

2622
02:28:59.159 --> 02:29:01.639
But then finally and she's still glancing at him a bit,

2623
02:29:02.559 --> 02:29:05.120
they get up and leave, and it's played in slow

2624
02:29:05.159 --> 02:29:08.399
motion basically mm hmm, it's all you know, as Martin's

2625
02:29:08.399 --> 02:29:10.959
sitting there drinking his water at the counter. They get

2626
02:29:11.040 --> 02:29:15.120
up and leave, and Martin watches and the film ends,

2627
02:29:17.200 --> 02:29:19.840
and I have a thought about that. But unless you

2628
02:29:19.879 --> 02:29:20.879
want to run first.

2629
02:29:21.000 --> 02:29:23.559
No well, my only comment was I thought it was

2630
02:29:23.680 --> 02:29:29.959
very interesting because there is not much expression in Martin's eyes, correct,

2631
02:29:30.399 --> 02:29:36.159
And you would expect that if he was doing it

2632
02:29:36.200 --> 02:29:39.520
for the lulls, and if it wasn't his idea of

2633
02:29:39.600 --> 02:29:43.879
this is what justice should be, there would be some

2634
02:29:44.000 --> 02:29:46.559
kind of like joy or something knowing that he's so

2635
02:29:46.760 --> 02:29:49.520
deeply affected this family. But no, it was just this

2636
02:29:50.440 --> 02:29:53.959
passive recognition that these are people out in the world

2637
02:29:54.520 --> 02:29:56.399
that he knows, Yeah, that he knows someone.

2638
02:29:56.760 --> 02:30:02.159
I agree with that, And what I got from that

2639
02:30:02.280 --> 02:30:08.280
final moment is the only way after all that. Oh

2640
02:30:08.319 --> 02:30:10.079
and it's important that the daughter to get up and

2641
02:30:10.079 --> 02:30:11.639
walk away, which was a nice way of letting us

2642
02:30:11.680 --> 02:30:14.079
know that like everything went back to normal. Yeah, you know,

2643
02:30:14.120 --> 02:30:17.000
to give a final taste of like it worked the

2644
02:30:17.040 --> 02:30:21.440
way he said as they walk away, and he's sitting

2645
02:30:21.440 --> 02:30:23.840
in that diner, a place he's been too many many times,

2646
02:30:23.959 --> 02:30:27.559
and all this stuff. I took note of the fact

2647
02:30:27.639 --> 02:30:32.559
that after all of this, after the vengeance, the balance,

2648
02:30:32.639 --> 02:30:35.959
the retribution, the DA da da, the symbols, all that,

2649
02:30:36.920 --> 02:30:42.280
you know, the only difference Martin's alone, That's the only difference.

2650
02:30:43.920 --> 02:30:52.280
M All Martin did was get less than he had before. Yeah,

2651
02:30:52.360 --> 02:30:59.319
and maybe that's my very soft hearted Namby Pamby sense

2652
02:30:59.360 --> 02:31:02.799
of like just saying that maybe in reality he's just

2653
02:31:02.840 --> 02:31:04.760
doing great. But to me, I was like, all I

2654
02:31:04.799 --> 02:31:10.600
see is a family still a family, and Martin still Martin. Yeah,

2655
02:31:11.280 --> 02:31:13.760
but now he doesn't even have a friend. M hm.

2656
02:31:15.600 --> 02:31:17.360
That's that's what I got.

2657
02:31:17.399 --> 02:31:19.079
I think that's very good.

2658
02:31:20.120 --> 02:31:21.799
And I'm also I've always loved that saying, you know,

2659
02:31:21.840 --> 02:31:25.399
the he who seeks vengeance to dig two graves. Yeah,

2660
02:31:25.559 --> 02:31:29.520
you know, like, yeah, so that was that's my personal

2661
02:31:29.559 --> 02:31:31.319
opinion on it. I'm not about to cry. I was

2662
02:31:31.319 --> 02:31:31.879
about to cough.

2663
02:31:32.760 --> 02:31:38.639
How dare how daring? But I think, yeah, I think

2664
02:31:38.680 --> 02:31:43.399
that's I think that's very spot on, because yeah, that's

2665
02:31:43.559 --> 02:31:46.319
that's the one thing that Martin did kind of have

2666
02:31:46.440 --> 02:31:48.360
going for him at the beginning of the film is

2667
02:31:48.399 --> 02:31:51.120
at least there was somebody who cared.

2668
02:31:51.319 --> 02:31:53.719
That's actually the saddest thing now that we're talking about it,

2669
02:31:53.719 --> 02:31:56.159
I'm just done. It's just you're the way you said

2670
02:31:56.200 --> 02:31:57.479
that when he said, like, the one thing he had

2671
02:31:57.520 --> 02:31:59.479
going for him was that he had a friend who

2672
02:31:59.520 --> 02:32:04.319
cared about him before this all started. He he had

2673
02:32:04.479 --> 02:32:08.319
so much coming his way he'd made friends with the

2674
02:32:08.360 --> 02:32:13.040
whole family. The wife found him charming overall liked him.

2675
02:32:13.399 --> 02:32:15.600
The daughter was falling in love with him. That could

2676
02:32:15.639 --> 02:32:18.559
have been something really important and special and pivotal in

2677
02:32:18.600 --> 02:32:21.799
his life. And the son got along with him too.

2678
02:32:21.840 --> 02:32:24.040
They liked being around him. They were even being kids together,

2679
02:32:24.079 --> 02:32:26.680
like secretly smoking cigarettes and stuff. They were like, those

2680
02:32:26.680 --> 02:32:29.239
are things that are like real kid bonding. It never

2681
02:32:29.280 --> 02:32:31.559
felt like they were with their extended family because they

2682
02:32:31.559 --> 02:32:36.040
had to be in those little enjoyed being I think

2683
02:32:36.120 --> 02:32:38.280
that Bob even enjoyed like having kind of an older

2684
02:32:38.280 --> 02:32:44.239
brother figure. M hm. He kind of had everything, considering

2685
02:32:44.280 --> 02:32:48.959
the tragedy that he'd been through. All things considered, he

2686
02:32:49.000 --> 02:32:53.079
had a lot more than many people do after losing

2687
02:32:53.079 --> 02:32:59.120
so much. Yeah, and instead he has none of it.

2688
02:33:01.559 --> 02:33:04.479
But I guess you know what can pick you up

2689
02:33:04.520 --> 02:33:09.600
from the airport is your sense of retribution.

2690
02:33:09.799 --> 02:33:11.639
Your sense of cosmic justice can do that.

2691
02:33:11.879 --> 02:33:15.079
Yeah, that'll that'll keep you warm at night. That'll run

2692
02:33:15.120 --> 02:33:17.239
to the CVS and get you niquel when you've been

2693
02:33:17.280 --> 02:33:20.280
sneezing all night but you're too dizzy to drive, you know,

2694
02:33:20.479 --> 02:33:24.079
Like that's yeah, yeah, maybe and and and like I said,

2695
02:33:24.079 --> 02:33:25.360
it was just the thought, the idea that he had

2696
02:33:25.399 --> 02:33:27.840
no control. Maybe he did have total control, and he

2697
02:33:28.040 --> 02:33:33.440
learned that he lost everything by holding on to an

2698
02:33:33.479 --> 02:33:37.159
anger mm hmm, because of this sense of justice that

2699
02:33:37.239 --> 02:33:38.600
doesn't accomplish anything.

2700
02:33:39.239 --> 02:33:41.959
And that's that's the first time I had watched the film.

2701
02:33:42.079 --> 02:33:46.920
That was what I had leaned toward, because again, the

2702
02:33:46.959 --> 02:33:50.520
families still together, and they still love each other. You know,

2703
02:33:50.520 --> 02:33:52.120
they're going to have a lot to work through, but

2704
02:33:52.159 --> 02:33:54.239
at least, you know, the three of them still have

2705
02:33:54.399 --> 02:33:58.120
each other. Yeah, but you know, just the fact that

2706
02:33:58.159 --> 02:34:02.360
the last shot that we see is Martin by himself,

2707
02:34:04.360 --> 02:34:07.399
and and we kind of, you know, throughout the whole film,

2708
02:34:07.559 --> 02:34:10.399
the only time we really get a clear view of

2709
02:34:10.479 --> 02:34:14.280
him is when he's interacting or creeping upon the family.

2710
02:34:14.600 --> 02:34:17.319
But you know, it's kind of laid out to us

2711
02:34:17.479 --> 02:34:20.680
that the biggest again, the biggest thing he's got going

2712
02:34:20.719 --> 02:34:26.799
for him is his friendship with this family. But to him,

2713
02:34:27.159 --> 02:34:28.879
the retribution was more important.

2714
02:34:29.360 --> 02:34:31.000
And that is a very classic story.

2715
02:34:31.159 --> 02:34:34.079
It is it is, And I know this is based

2716
02:34:34.159 --> 02:34:36.840
upon a Greek tragedy, so from what I.

2717
02:34:36.879 --> 02:34:39.239
Read it, they borrowed the title of one. But I

2718
02:34:39.280 --> 02:34:41.840
don't know if I'd like to look into that.

2719
02:34:42.040 --> 02:34:43.840
Yeah, for sure, I'm curious because I know that is

2720
02:34:43.879 --> 02:34:48.879
a very Greek tragedy thing where I tragedies well Italians,

2721
02:34:50.879 --> 02:34:53.000
but yeah, that's a very Greek thing. Is you finally

2722
02:34:53.120 --> 02:34:55.440
you finally get what you want and then you realize

2723
02:34:55.479 --> 02:34:58.079
you had to give up everything that you had to

2724
02:34:58.239 --> 02:35:01.000
get what you want? So was it even worth it?

2725
02:35:02.200 --> 02:35:07.120
Yeah? So final review of the Killing of a Sacred Deer.

2726
02:35:07.440 --> 02:35:11.319
It's all Greek to me. I am so funny and charming.

2727
02:35:11.360 --> 02:35:14.399
I love me so anything else you want to say

2728
02:35:14.399 --> 02:35:17.639
about the film before we wrap up our very special

2729
02:35:17.760 --> 02:35:20.120
family holiday episode.

2730
02:35:23.319 --> 02:35:25.079
You know, you could make a drinking game of how

2731
02:35:25.680 --> 02:35:27.799
many times a ceiling fan was featured in this.

2732
02:35:27.799 --> 02:35:32.239
Film prominently featured? Hey, those ceiling fans were on fleek

2733
02:35:33.159 --> 02:35:36.120
so well. Thank you Rachel for sitting down with me

2734
02:35:36.200 --> 02:35:38.719
and talking at length about the Killing of a Sacred Deer,

2735
02:35:39.200 --> 02:35:41.879
And thank you everybody who's been listening. I really am

2736
02:35:41.920 --> 02:35:44.040
glad you guys are enjoying cutting deep into horror. So

2737
02:35:44.159 --> 02:35:46.840
happy that we could start doing the show again a

2738
02:35:46.879 --> 02:35:50.120
little bit more regularly, And I hope you guys are

2739
02:35:50.120 --> 02:35:52.760
having a great holiday season, enjoying all the extra content

2740
02:35:53.040 --> 02:35:56.120
we've been publishing over at Weekly Spooky. It has been

2741
02:35:56.239 --> 02:36:00.399
a wild ride since October that never stops. But we

2742
02:36:00.440 --> 02:36:02.479
are going to be back next week with another episode

2743
02:36:02.520 --> 02:36:05.959
because we wanted to do something actually Christmas y. Yeah,

2744
02:36:06.000 --> 02:36:07.879
so we'll be talking about a film. I'm gonna leave

2745
02:36:07.879 --> 02:36:08.639
it to be a surprise act.

2746
02:36:08.719 --> 02:36:09.600
I think it should be a surprise.

2747
02:36:09.799 --> 02:36:11.920
Yeah, you guys are gonna dig it. It's not a classic,

2748
02:36:11.959 --> 02:36:14.920
it's a newer one that I really dig So until

2749
02:36:14.920 --> 02:36:16.639
next time, remember, if you like what we're doing here,

2750
02:36:16.680 --> 02:36:19.959
you can go to Weeklyspooky dot com slash join become

2751
02:36:19.959 --> 02:36:21.559
a patron for as little as one dollar a month.

2752
02:36:21.600 --> 02:36:23.719
We really do appreciate it, and send us an email

2753
02:36:23.760 --> 02:36:26.479
at Weekly Spooky at gmail dot com. We'll see you

2754
02:36:26.479 --> 02:36:40.440
next time. Kids,