Cutting Deep Into Horror | Possession (1981) - Break-up Horror at its WEIRDEST

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How are you. Are you doing
well today? I am? I am.

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Now that it's the eleventh day,
I can drink alcohol again. Oh

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dear, but I don't really feel
the need to drink alcohol. Oh okay,

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I was gonna say, is this
about to be a very interesting episode?

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Like extremely Let me tell you something
else? Okay, Well, I

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saw you were drinking something. What
are you drinking? You have something fancy

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there? Oh yeah, I have
a job a chip from I wanted to

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treat myself after being on antibiotics.
Oh I hear you me. I'm going

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to Classic Pedia Lite. Good choice. That's where I'm at right now.

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So all right, so here we
go. We're just gonna have a great

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time talking about a very good and
heartbreaking and bizarre movie. This podcast is

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about why horror scares us, what
deep, dark, secret scary cinema shines

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a light on. The discussions are
frank and involve conversations about abuse, trauma,

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and mental health. There are awesome
spoilers, so keep that in mind

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too. Now, sharpen your machetes
and straight razors, because this is cutting

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deep into horror. Welcome, my
dear friends, to cutting deep into horror.

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You have to you have to like
really hit on the deeper. It

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doesn't work. I'm, of course
Enrique Kuto here with your girl, sweet

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and spooky. Sale and SALESA and
I, for different reasons, both had

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tummy ailments. Mine was caused by
a stomach flu and yours was caused by

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a very friendly antibiotic, if I'm
remembering correctly. Yes, I like to

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call things like that annoy us that
are not alive. I like to call

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them friendly. I always find that
amusing. Oh yeah, and then I

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busted my knee on a very friendly
coffee table, you know. And tonight

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we're going to talk about Possession,
the nineteen eighty one kind of Polish movie.

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And before we jump into it,
though, literally as we were setting

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up to record, we got our
first email. No, yeah, for

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reals, I've never heard that before. I feel fancy. I'll tell you

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right now. We don't get a
ton of emails because, you know,

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people have to have something to say
to email in otherwise, Although I appreciate

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everybody who take the time to say, like, hey, just want to

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say a huge fan love you.
I mean, I love that, thank

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you. I'll take a million of
them. But I very much like being

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you know, told I'm good,
but we got this email in over Patreon

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from Christy Gordon, and Christy sent
in a nice little letter that I want

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to read at the beginning of the
show because she wrote in a fan letter

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after one episode. So I was
like, she gets optimal placement. We're

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gonna We're gonna read her letter.
So, like I said, Christy Gordon

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says, I had listened to the
new show cutting deep. I think it's

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a great addition. That episode had
me thinking about movies I found creepy when

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I was young. A top three
would be or my top three would be

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Watcher in the Woods. I do
like that one, and that one.

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Oh yeah, yeah, we're gonna
work on you. Don't worry. We'll

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get you. We'll get you where
you need to be. Number two Lady

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in White, Okay, I like
that one. Yeah. And then number

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three was something Wicked This Way Comes
Okay, ok that one I could really

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see scaring you as a kid.
Especially. Yeah, for sure she put

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not overly scary movies, but I
remember having dreams about them after watching them.

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Well that means they left an impact
for sure. Yes, definitely,

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let's see. I think I was
slash Am always more creeped out about potential

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hauntings or things involving involving affecting the
mind or soul. Hereditary would be one

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of those movies. I like hearing
about other things you had both watched as

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well, always looking for suggestions.
Well, we have a very morose suggestion

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this week for you. One I
have watched recently and enjoyed is Girl in

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the Mirror on Netflix. Have you
watched that? I haven't had a chance.

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Have you seen it? No?
I don't actually know what that is.

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It's apparently it originated from Spain,
with the original title being Almah.

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So, yeah, that sounds really
good. I call my girlfriend, my

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Alma, so it's like, oh, I don't want her to find out.

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I don't want her to figure that
out. But then she ends the

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email with anyway, thanks for the
continued year round spooky content from stories to

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news to history to films. Thank
you, Christy. Yeah, we have

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the nicest audience weekly spooky and every
time I try something new, like a

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new type of program or whatever,
they just they tend to love it,

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and I'm really thankful. Um So, but that surprised me. Literally,

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I got that email while you were
getting on the call so yea. Yeah,

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so, I mean that is hot
off the presses, and when she

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hears this on Friday, she'll hopefully
jump up in the air and then it'll

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freeze frame. Yeah. Yeah,
that's the good stuff. So all right,

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So we're going into Possession from nineteen
eighty one. This is a film

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that I could see triggering lots of
feelings of dread. Also, I'd be

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I'd be remissed to not mention you
are wearing the Possession drip. I am.

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Look at how beautiful that is an
I mean, I love that design.

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Yes, the design, it's the
posters like the movie. It's beautiful

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and kind of sexy and also wtf, yeah, it's just like the film

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is um But this is directed by
Andre Zulowski, who's Polish, and I

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don't know why I needed to mention
that, but I did. Actually,

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I do know why, because I
think there's a lot about his country of

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Poland in this movie. There is
I read about that. Yes, Oh

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goodness. So i'd love since this
is one of your top fives, I'd

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love for you to give as best
you can a description of what this movie

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is. Oh my god, yeah, in the hot seat, now a

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description of what this movie is.
Yeah, like, how would you describe

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it to somebody in as you know, not as few words as possible,

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but also you know, concisely.
But do I want to tell them how

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crazy it is? Or do I
want to trick them? I don't think.

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Well, the nice thing about Possession
I was told this movie's crazy,

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this movie is insane, but I
had no idea how strange it was,

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like the things that happened in this
movie. And there was a spoiler alert

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at the beginning of the show,
So I don't feel bad saying anything,

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but like the shocking elements of this
movie, I would never in a million

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years guess is going to be what
happens? You know, somebody's that gonna

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be like it's a movie about a
force, but not really, because it's

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really this terrifying hellscape of and I'd
be like, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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tentacle things that have sex with the
wife. I know, we've all

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I get it a weird breakup movie. I understand. You know it's midsummer

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again. Oh dear, oh yeah, we're gonna one day we're gonna do

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that. Because I'd actually like to
revisit it. Maybe you can turn me

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around on it. I'm not one
of those people that digs my heels in.

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I want to I want to like
movies. Um. Usually when I

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watch a movie for the first time
and don't like it, I'm like,

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it was probably me. That's the
way. That's the way I look at

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it. So I've always believe there's
no bad audience. There's no bad movies,

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only bad audiences. So anyway,
So you would describe it as go

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on, You're you're trying to escape
by knowing I'll talk too much if you

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if you ask a question, I
would describe it as a woman who gets

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tired of her home life and leaves
her family for no one knows why,

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and then her husband is very determined
to find out why. And lots of

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crazy things and sue and and and
the best part is saying lots of crazy

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things doesn't spoil it, you know
exactly. Yeah. Have you seen the

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Cicario movies? No, I don't
know what that is. Oh, Cicario.

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There are movies about the Cicarios,
you know, the drug cartel.

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They're more recent action movies. There's
Cicario and Cicario Soldado. They're both very,

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very good. I think you would
really like them. I mean,

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they're just cool action movies, um
with a with a big Mexican bent.

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And but one of my favorite things
about Cicario is whenever people are like,

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oh, you know, I watched
Cicario, I'm like, let me tell

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you something. Everyone dies, and
I didn't spoil it, because that's that's

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you know. That's like, because
so much happens to lead to those debts

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that hearing they all die really doesn't
spoil anything. That's how I feel about

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Possession. I feel like I was
never truly prepared, so it is like

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a breakup movie of the ages.
I do after watching it a second time,

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I do think that the wife suffers, and and please disagree if you

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do. The wife suffers from being
a little one dimensional at times. Yeah

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yeah, but I think that that's
I mean, that's okay. Not every

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character needs to be perfect. She's
she drives the entire plot, so her

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and and and honestly, she's supposed
to not make a lot of sense because

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the the vibe is that she just
up and wants to ditch her husband for

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no apparent reason. And I know
a lot of men feel like that is

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what happens when they get dumped,
even if there were red flags, even

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if there were signs or whatever.
Often men feel like they're sideswiped by being

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dumped. So that's my own experience
being a dude flavor. But but I

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do feel like and that was also
in the nineteen eighties. That was the

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beginning of like the divorce era,
where a lot of divorces were happening to

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men who would like, never even
really understood what a divorce was, and

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and a lot of them were like, what, I haven't changed at all,

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And it's like, yeah, but
it's more complicated than that. Of

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course, in this movie, it's
far more complicated than that. So it's

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quite quite complicated. We should mention. It takes place in one of the

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most delightful and film friendly places you
could think of, West Berlin, and

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I love the setting of West Berlin. Have you been no? Well,

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I mean I I how old do
you think I am? I mean West

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Berlin doesn't existed since nineteen ninety two? I think or three? Oh is

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that true? Oh? I didn't
know that. Commenting on your age,

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the Soviet Union did fall believe it
or not? Oh, this is political

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stuff. I don't know anything about
that. More world history? Do you

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know why Germany was split in half? No? Oh wow, I think

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I'm paying attention to that. You're
smarter than you than than you even realize.

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But I'll give you. I am
also a history nerd. I like

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history. So basically, after the
Nazis were beat, do you know who

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the Nazis are? I'm kidding,
I like, I will leave this podcast.

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So, after the Nazis were defeated
in World War Two, basically the

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two fronts fighting them were the Soviets
and the rest of Europe in America.

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Right, So, in kind of
splitting up the plunder of Germany, because

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both sides had spent an immense amount
of money defeating Germany, they both wanted

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to rebuild Germany to kind of,
you know, reap some benefits, and

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they ended up splitting it in half. So West Germany, it's easy to

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remember West is best because West was
the democratic side. That's how I always

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remember it. West is best,
It's a democratic side. And then East

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Germany and East and East Berlin were
the communist side. Okay, so the

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movie takes place on the non communist
side because they wouldn't be allowed to make

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a movie on the communist side in
real life anyway, and there's something so

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hellish because Berlin is actually like smack
dab in the middle of Germany, kind

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of have you been to Berlin by
the way, because you mentioned that,

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I want to make sure have you
been there? No, I do want

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to go there, though someday I
wouldn't mind going now that you know,

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now that it's nice and it's not
a holiday and other people's misery. But

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so I think that West Germany is
a phenomenal setup for the show because it's

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just an oppressive environment. You know, it feels very this is you know,

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some bad stuff's going on in the
background. You know, you look

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out the They constantly made reference to
the fact that you could look out the

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window of the apartment they're constantly fighting
in and see the Berlin Wall, which

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was a wall with armed guards on
it, and they would shoot anyone who

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tried to escape East Berlin. That
was what they were there for. So

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it's a very hard time period and
in some ways, after watching this again,

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I think that this movie was kind
of about the fact that Poland,

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our director's home country, Poland,
was a communist nation, and he had

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had a very successful career being a
director in Poland, and then they started

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turning on him, and they started
telling him what he could and couldn't do,

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and started censoring him and started trying
to control him, which I know,

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shocker, communist country wants to control
somebody, but it is what happens.

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And in some ways I think he
chose West Germany or West Berlin rather

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because he wanted like a very clear
depiction of the fact that there's this battle

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going on between a sense of democracy
and a sense of communism. And in

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some ways I feel like this movie
is Andre's way of kind of exercising his

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feeling of his home nation turning on
him. That was kind of a thought

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I had, was that it was
like one day you wake up and you're

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like, why does Poland hate me? Now I've been like I love my

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home and Poland's just like ah,
and You're like, what the hell is

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going on? So but anyway,
I'm getting a little deep in the weeds.

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But that was just something I thought
of as I was watching it.

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Is I was like, this like
the symbolism of like losing the mother as

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well, because the countries in Europe
especially are often referred to as mother,

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you know, the Motherland. So
but those were just a few thoughts.

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So, but to get back and
get out of the weeds a little bit.

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The movie stars Sam Neil and Isabella
Johnny. I believe I'm saying that

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right, Yes, Isabella Johnny is
what's the word? She's like breathtaking in

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an uncomfortable way, if that makes
sense. Like she's almost bewitching looking.

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She's a beautiful woman, but the
way they photograph her, she looks like

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there's a lot going on that might
not be so nice. That is that

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a fair statement? Yeah, I
would say she she's mysterious looking. Oh

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yeah, no, without a doubt. Yeah. And so it opens with

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them having a fight and all fights, right, that was Yeah, it

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starts out with Sam Neil and her
having a kitchen fight. Most of their

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fights took place in the kitchen.
Yeah, very interesting, which which it

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was also like the most cramped space
in those little like you know, Eastern

207
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block apartments which were always kind of
tiny and weird. Um. And did

208
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you notice I couldn't help but notice
that the movie is blue, very very

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blue. Yeah, she also wears
blue. She wears blue. The carpet

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in their apartment is blue, and
the color tone of the movie is blue.

211
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It is. There were a couple
of moments where there was like a

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warmth to the picture and that was
literally from the sun. Like there was

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a part where Sam Neil's talking to
the one private investigator guy and literally they

214
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turn and it's just a sunlight beam
on their face, on his face,

215
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so it actually gave him like color
to look like he might be alive.

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Because the movie is so it's so
clean, like and and I don't know,

217
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like I noticed what I was watching. I was like, I have

218
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a hard time believing human beings live
in the houses because they were overall,

219
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especially their house, their apartment,
because it was so clean. It was

220
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like, why can't it just a
little dirtiness just to make us feel like

221
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somebody's living here? You know?
Yeah, So, what's one of the

222
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reasons you love this movie? I
want to understand. I know that you

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like difficult movies, and I mean
that's why we have this program together.

224
00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:37.399
No, I mean that's a good
thing. Though some movies are difficult and

225
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some people like to be challenged when
they're watching a movie. I know I

226
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do. So what what attracted you
to the film? Um? I think,

227
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well, obviously I'm a Sam Neil
fan. Oh yeah, he's great.

228
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Yeah, well, I mean in
the mouth of Bad this Jurassic Park,

229
00:16:51.799 --> 00:16:55.799
which are very far apart but both
phenomenal in their own way. He's

230
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an icon for sure. And Isabella
Johnny captivated me from the start of the

231
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film. And I also think it's
one of the best performances I've ever seen,

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so that definitely made me fall in
love with the movie. But also

233
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I think I just love seeing like
unhinged women, sure, chaos and Sue.

234
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I mean that's I mean, the
Lifetime Channel built an entire you know,

235
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monolith on the Crazy Woman movie.
You have the reasonable Woman, you

236
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have the Crazy Woman, and then
they meet at the grocery store and you

237
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have a movie. No, And
from what I understand, Isabella Johnny was

238
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a model, like she was dabbling
in acting, but she was a model

239
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that was like her main gig.
Yes, and I believe it because her

240
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face is so expressive it is.
I wouldn't be surprised if modeling helped with

241
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that, Like she was kind of
almost I don't want to I'm not I

242
00:17:52.920 --> 00:17:56.160
don't mean to be mean, like
saying blue steel, because that's a kind

243
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of goofy thing. But you know, like she had that little ability to

244
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like look at the camera or look
near the camera and you would really go

245
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like whoa, Like stuff's going on? Yeah, her eyes are very expressive,

246
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incredibly expressive. And that's the other
reason I think she's like hauntingly beautiful

247
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is she's a model. I mean, she has made a life of being

248
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beautiful, right, but then you
give her the extra bits, you know,

249
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the the unhinged nous. So so
she wants to divorce sam Neil,

250
00:18:25.160 --> 00:18:29.680
and Sam Neil is like why you
know, because he was just away.

251
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This movie is so insane that I
forget he's a spy. It's easy.

252
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That's how crazy the movie is.
It's like it's like everything, don't tell

253
00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:42.519
mom the babysitter's dead. No,
really, you'd love it. It's it's

254
00:18:42.559 --> 00:18:45.960
just a fun I mean a lot
of these are before your time, and

255
00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:49.559
they're honestly a little before mine too. That's from the nineties. It starts

256
00:18:49.640 --> 00:18:56.079
Christina Applegate, Oh oh, it's
it's a phenomenal movie. Um, Basically,

257
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these kids have a babysitter, she'd
eyes, and then they end up

258
00:18:57.359 --> 00:19:00.519
trying to fend for themselves because their
mom is in Australia. But one of

259
00:19:00.519 --> 00:19:03.400
my favorite things about that movie,
without even spoiling anything, is just that

260
00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:07.519
so much happens in that movie with
those kids, that when their mom finally

261
00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:11.039
gets home and you're like, oh
no, they're busted and everything, then

262
00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:12.359
the mom goes, where's the babysitter
and you go, oh my god,

263
00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:17.960
the babysitter died, Like you forget
because the movie gives you so much to

264
00:19:18.440 --> 00:19:22.119
process. And that's how I feel
about Possession. About Sam Neil's character being

265
00:19:22.359 --> 00:19:27.759
literally a Cold War era spy,
is I forgot because I was so enthralled

266
00:19:27.759 --> 00:19:32.160
with everything else. It's like,
listen, there's a lot of extreme and

267
00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:33.839
amazing things going on right now.
It's just gonna have to get in line,

268
00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:37.200
all right. I just can't do
it right now. But so,

269
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he was away somewhere fighting somebody for
some kind of spy organization, and he

270
00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:48.279
has West Berlin his home. So
he goes home to his wife. She

271
00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:56.039
wants a divorce, so he immediately
freaks out, gets very upset. He

272
00:19:56.119 --> 00:19:59.640
actually starts by asking a few questions, but the moment he's not getting the

273
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answers wants, you just get superhadum. At least that was my interpretation.

274
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Yes, yeah. And the thing
with Sam Neil's character is I feel like

275
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he occasionally has an appropriate amount of
anger and then often does not, Like

276
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he definitely has anger. His character
has anger problems, and I mean,

277
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I get it, though. It's
like you're uperating our family and da da

278
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da. And he pulls a really
crummy thing, which is he decides he's

279
00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:29.200
not going to see his son anymore
if his wife's gonna leave him, which

280
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is a really crappy thing to do. And unfortunately he's not the only one

281
00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:38.160
that uses Bob. There's because wouldn't
have a five year old named Bob.

282
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I really take issue with that.
This movie is insane, Like there's so

283
00:20:44.920 --> 00:20:51.039
much insanity, But the craziest thing
is naming a baby Bob. I'm sorry,

284
00:20:51.119 --> 00:20:52.519
it makes me think a fulchi because
it housed by the cemetery. The

285
00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:56.880
little boy's named Bob as well.
I didn't know that. That's so.

286
00:20:56.920 --> 00:21:00.920
I guess in the eighties there was
a movement and call your little kid's Bob.

287
00:21:02.079 --> 00:21:07.039
It's a terrible name. Well you
know, um, because then you'll

288
00:21:07.039 --> 00:21:08.920
live over your whole life with uncle's
going, hey, what's your middle name?

289
00:21:10.039 --> 00:21:15.319
Up and down? In the river
me slap. So, I mean,

290
00:21:15.319 --> 00:21:18.680
I know my buddy Rob is listening
to this right now. I don't

291
00:21:18.680 --> 00:21:19.839
know if he went by Bob when
he was a kid or not. Now

292
00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:26.079
I have to know, but cutting
deep into horror will be right back.

293
00:21:32.759 --> 00:21:34.519
Yeah, Bob is around, little
kid, And that's the other thing is

294
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he's kind of around when the parents
care to have him around. And that's

295
00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:44.880
where it gets really hinky because the
threat of like I won't be his father

296
00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:49.079
anymore is very manipulative. And I
get that Samuel's character is desperate. He's

297
00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:52.720
desperate to keep his family, so
I feel like I get why he's being

298
00:21:53.400 --> 00:21:57.279
that way. I don't think it's
good though, But then as the movie

299
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progresses, she also uses Bob against
him quite a bit as well. She

300
00:22:02.599 --> 00:22:07.319
does yes, and that's the thing
that really like maybe go like wow,

301
00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:10.559
that's why this movie is so good, because there's like you, anybody you

302
00:22:10.599 --> 00:22:12.400
want to root for, you have
to have caveats, you have to be

303
00:22:12.519 --> 00:22:15.000
like you know, I think I
get it though he wants to keep his

304
00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:19.359
family, but he also shouldn't do
that, or like I get it,

305
00:22:19.400 --> 00:22:22.519
she wants her freedom, but maybe
also like whoa what are you doing.

306
00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:27.440
None of these people are good.
None of these people are are good.

307
00:22:27.519 --> 00:22:33.119
There's no doubt about that. So
of course Samuel's character immediately assumes that there's

308
00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:40.599
another man, right, And it
turns out there is, except that there's

309
00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:45.440
been another man for like a year, and that's not why she's leaving him.

310
00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:48.759
Apparently, talk about some of the
most emasculating, like like quick scenes

311
00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:52.079
I've ever seen where she just like
blurts out all the once like, oh,

312
00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:52.839
the sex with you is just not
interesting at all, But don't worry,

313
00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:56.119
but I but I have great sex
with him. You're just like,

314
00:22:56.480 --> 00:23:03.240
whoof okay? Okay? Whoof okay? Um an octopus? I get it's

315
00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:04.400
an octopus, isn't it? No? No, no, no, So

316
00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:11.359
you're getting ahead. Her lover was
Heinrich? Her lover was Heinrich? I

317
00:23:11.559 --> 00:23:15.720
know, but I assumed that she
wasn't talking about Heinrich. Oh okay,

318
00:23:15.799 --> 00:23:18.720
that's interesting, though I hadn't thought
about that. I don't know. It

319
00:23:18.839 --> 00:23:22.119
might be right, especially because later
we'll we'll get to it. But like

320
00:23:22.200 --> 00:23:26.960
later, I like just the way, like how sexual she was with the

321
00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:30.799
thing. No. That and that
is a really good point because my thought

322
00:23:30.839 --> 00:23:36.119
and now I sincerely, I'm like, I could totally be wrong. Um,

323
00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:38.359
now that I'm thinking about it,
I actually am like, huh,

324
00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:41.799
you know, I mean she had
been having an affair with Heinrich. I

325
00:23:41.799 --> 00:23:48.039
definitely didn't think she was leaving Sam
Neil's character for Heinrich, for whatever the

326
00:23:48.200 --> 00:23:52.960
creature is. Yeah, she's actually
in love with uh. So you know

327
00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:56.160
whether or not she was talking about
him, because I mean one of the

328
00:23:56.160 --> 00:23:57.200
things she said when she said,
like, I've been seeing him for over

329
00:23:57.240 --> 00:24:00.599
a year, she was talking about
Heinrich. Her attitude was that like he

330
00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:03.039
was just oh, whatever, that's
just an affair. Like that's just what

331
00:24:03.079 --> 00:24:06.440
you do. You like, meet
a guy at yoga class and starts sleeping

332
00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:08.960
with him when your spy husband's gone, Like you know, like you do.

333
00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:14.119
That's kind of the vibe I got. But but the reason she left

334
00:24:14.200 --> 00:24:21.119
him was she found something far more
for her captivating and interesting than good sex.

335
00:24:21.960 --> 00:24:30.359
She found maybe unspeakable evil. I
mean I'm leaning towards unspeakable evil.

336
00:24:30.680 --> 00:24:33.359
I like out It's like, let's
talk about a movie that leaves nothing but

337
00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:37.160
questions. Yeah, no, it
really, it really does. But that's

338
00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:41.319
that's one of the things I love
about it. So in your opinion,

339
00:24:41.119 --> 00:24:44.960
how did you feel about the fighting
scenes. I found those to be very

340
00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:48.000
hard to like breathe during when they
were having like their full blown domestic disputes.

341
00:24:48.680 --> 00:24:53.119
Yeah, those were very intense.
Yeah, yeah, I think.

342
00:24:53.480 --> 00:24:59.519
Um. One of my favorite ones
is at the beginning when they're in the

343
00:25:00.839 --> 00:25:06.279
in the restaurant. Oh my god. First of all, first of all,

344
00:25:06.359 --> 00:25:08.039
like a total chad. He won't
sit with her. He sits on

345
00:25:08.119 --> 00:25:11.640
the table next to her while he
talks to her, so he's not even

346
00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:15.200
looking at her. Although maybe that's
from his spy training, because that was

347
00:25:15.200 --> 00:25:18.079
the first thing I thought was,
like, don't spies do that? They

348
00:25:18.119 --> 00:25:19.559
like sit next to each other,
but facing a way to talk to each

349
00:25:19.559 --> 00:25:25.720
other. You know, he was
he was being childish without a doubt.

350
00:25:26.359 --> 00:25:30.240
Yeah, I'm even before he started
freaking out and a bunch of chefs had

351
00:25:30.279 --> 00:25:34.680
to jump on him that smart.
It was crazy. I love the guy

352
00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:37.119
at the end of that n if
you picked up on it. But the

353
00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:44.039
last guy to jump and he just
jumps, Yeah, he just like or

354
00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:48.799
something like are you are you here? Sir? Like that was like a

355
00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:52.680
perfect classic dog pile, Like I
was waiting for them all to start like

356
00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:56.480
punching and then Samuel to crawl out
of the pile and just sneak away like

357
00:25:56.519 --> 00:26:00.680
in the cartoons. But no,
that was that was an outstanding scene.

358
00:26:02.240 --> 00:26:07.160
It was because it's weird, like
in a way. All the performances are

359
00:26:07.559 --> 00:26:11.359
huge for the most part, um, but I feel like they work because

360
00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:18.400
it's like an insane world where people
are like you in matters of the heart.

361
00:26:18.519 --> 00:26:23.359
We don't always make sense. I
mean maybe you have and I'm the

362
00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:29.799
I'm the imperfect one in this in
this conversation, but but I have made

363
00:26:29.839 --> 00:26:33.039
dumb decisions when the heart, when
my heart gets involved, I've made great

364
00:26:33.039 --> 00:26:36.640
decisions with my heart too, But
like, yeah, sometimes I'm like,

365
00:26:36.680 --> 00:26:40.319
wow, that was a choice,
Okay, man, best to luck to

366
00:26:40.440 --> 00:26:44.799
myself. Um. And I feel
like in some ways that's why what I

367
00:26:44.839 --> 00:26:49.640
got from why Everybody's just so crazy
is that they're both driven mad. Sam

368
00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:52.720
Neil's driven mad by wanting to keep
his wife. His wife's driven mad by

369
00:26:53.279 --> 00:27:00.720
unspeakable evil, and that's that's really
makes variation. Well, yeah, and

370
00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:03.599
that's the thing that was, Like
when they reveal Heinrich and when they reveal

371
00:27:03.799 --> 00:27:07.400
what he's about like with her in
her relationship with him, what they're about,

372
00:27:08.599 --> 00:27:15.079
it becomes obvious that like that's a
very simple example of like boardwife cheating,

373
00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:21.119
and what's actually going on is way
more insane than that. That she's

374
00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:26.480
living with this being unspeakable evil is
the best way to put it, because

375
00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:30.599
I don't know how to describe this
tentacally monster that eats people and also will

376
00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:36.279
have sex with you. It's but
it's it's quite a it's quite a creature

377
00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:40.799
that is basically telling her to do
things for it. Basically she lives to

378
00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:45.839
serve it to some extent, yes, And as the movie progresses, it

379
00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:49.759
seems like to me that she's trying
to protect her husband and child from it,

380
00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:56.079
maybe at first, until he just
keeps pushing and keeps pushing, and

381
00:27:56.079 --> 00:28:02.119
then eventually she's like come on in, you know. Yeah. And I

382
00:28:02.160 --> 00:28:06.039
think that's also a really interesting element
too, because you know, with like

383
00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:07.319
I said, this is the era
at eighty one that was the era of

384
00:28:07.359 --> 00:28:14.440
divorces. Divorces were becoming very mainstream, and you know, in some ways,

385
00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:17.039
I wonder if it's like she you
know, like you know how some

386
00:28:17.119 --> 00:28:19.079
people maybe, I mean, I've
never done this because you know that would

387
00:28:19.079 --> 00:28:22.440
be stupid, but we'll go away
from people because they feel like they that

388
00:28:22.599 --> 00:28:26.400
somebody they love deserves to not have
them in their life, Like I'm a

389
00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:30.200
bad person, so I'm going to
remove myself from the situation. It kind

390
00:28:30.200 --> 00:28:33.799
of made me think of that a
little bit, and as being facetious,

391
00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:38.079
I've absolutely felt that way, and
it's very it's a very hellish way to

392
00:28:38.559 --> 00:28:44.079
live thinking that you're awful and everyone
around you would be better off if you

393
00:28:44.200 --> 00:28:48.640
spared them your company. But sometimes
I felt like that was kind of the

394
00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:51.599
vibe at first. Obviously at first, and this movie is two hours long,

395
00:28:52.839 --> 00:28:55.960
a lot happens in the first hour
and a lot happens in the second

396
00:28:55.960 --> 00:29:00.240
hour. Yeah, it kind of
doesn't let up. No, you know

397
00:29:00.279 --> 00:29:03.680
what. It reminded me of a
little bit uncut Gems. Oh my god.

398
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:07.960
Yeah, the anxiety of it.
Yeah, the first twenty minutes,

399
00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:11.839
Oh my god. But that first
twenty minutes or so, every character's yelling

400
00:29:12.119 --> 00:29:17.359
and no one and everyone's talking over
each other, like every word overlaps.

401
00:29:17.960 --> 00:29:22.720
Yeah, it is so anxiety inducing. Yeah, I can't deal with that.

402
00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:25.720
That's like so not my vibe.
If that's happening in front of me,

403
00:29:25.759 --> 00:29:30.680
I'm like, I'm disassociating. It's
not the worst part is I like

404
00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:33.680
went to see Unca Gems three times
in the theater and I was like,

405
00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:34.920
it's just so amazing how it makes
me so anxious. And I was like,

406
00:29:34.960 --> 00:29:37.960
wait, don't you pay a doctor, Tony, that not happen.

407
00:29:41.799 --> 00:29:45.400
I'm a multifaceted being. Okay,
That's that's all there is to it.

408
00:29:47.200 --> 00:29:52.119
But um, so when you think
about like, I guess I'm trying to

409
00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:53.720
kind of poke around at some of
the takes. I guess one thing I'd

410
00:29:53.720 --> 00:29:56.920
like to ask you is, what
do you think of Heinrich, the the

411
00:29:57.000 --> 00:30:02.880
new age man other man in her
life as opposed to the other entity in

412
00:30:02.920 --> 00:30:11.759
her life? What what a strange
character? Like I when they first show

413
00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:19.119
him and like Sam Neil goes over
there and they they have words. Um,

414
00:30:19.240 --> 00:30:29.680
Heinrich is very touchy and weird.
Uh He's like he's like massively sexual.

415
00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:36.119
Yeah he is. And I was
like, what's going on? Like,

416
00:30:36.319 --> 00:30:42.400
is he supposed to be the eccentric
like European, very like free kind

417
00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:49.920
of guy, but then his behavior
just gets even weirder ya Um. But

418
00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:53.400
but I will say that it's a
really funny moment that I just have to

419
00:30:53.440 --> 00:30:59.039
address. Uh So when the Stampers
goes over there, he's like, is

420
00:30:59.079 --> 00:31:02.079
Anna there And Hirank is like,
no, she's not here. And he's

421
00:31:02.079 --> 00:31:03.799
like do I have to kick the
door down? And hir is like no,

422
00:31:03.880 --> 00:31:11.319
it's open. Yeah, come yeah, let's have coffee. Yeah.

423
00:31:11.400 --> 00:31:15.519
And I love that because when you
want to hate someone and then they're not

424
00:31:15.599 --> 00:31:22.480
that bad, it hurts more.
Like you know, like if you're like,

425
00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:23.640
oh, my partner's been cheating on
me, and then you meet the

426
00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:26.640
person you're like, oh, they're
pretty cool. That that just sucks,

427
00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:30.519
Like you want to you want them
to have taken a step down, you

428
00:31:30.519 --> 00:31:34.559
know. Damn Yeah. I mean
that I'm not saying and I'm not saying

429
00:31:34.599 --> 00:31:37.759
that's a good thing. I'm just
saying that's true to a lot of people.

430
00:31:37.799 --> 00:31:41.640
I don't think anybody wants to find
out they were being cheated on with

431
00:31:41.680 --> 00:31:45.960
somebody way better than them. You
know that that hurts, especially because anyone

432
00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:51.680
wants in general, well, I
mean, you're right, that's a fair

433
00:31:51.680 --> 00:31:53.200
point. I just feel like if
I'm gonna be cheated on, it's at

434
00:31:53.279 --> 00:31:56.720
least like make him ugly or something. So I could be like, well,

435
00:31:56.000 --> 00:32:00.519
I guess you peaked with me.
Have fun with the quasi motto over

436
00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:06.400
day, you know, Like,
but I actually in my notes about Heinrich,

437
00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:09.359
I put Heinrich is a special type
of and then literally asshole or hero.

438
00:32:10.319 --> 00:32:15.079
I couldn't decide if I love him
or hate him because he's so weird,

439
00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:20.559
because he's like because the when sam
Neil gets like in his face,

440
00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:24.279
he just starts like karate chopping him
and beating him up, and then he

441
00:32:24.319 --> 00:32:29.039
does that thing that's like the most
emasculating thing ever, which is he beat

442
00:32:29.119 --> 00:32:30.480
up sam Neil and then picks sam
Neel up, gets Hi back as being

443
00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:35.559
is all right, go home.
The worst thing ever is not only does

444
00:32:35.599 --> 00:32:37.839
somebody kick your ass, but then
they help you get back up and get

445
00:32:37.839 --> 00:32:39.079
back on your way. They're like, all right, buddy, you go

446
00:32:39.240 --> 00:32:44.680
now Like that's a that's an emasculating
moment to be like I was gonna kick

447
00:32:44.680 --> 00:32:46.119
your ass, but then you kicked
my ass and then help me stand back

448
00:32:46.200 --> 00:32:51.000
up and leave. Ouch, okay, fine, all right, I guess

449
00:32:51.039 --> 00:32:54.559
I am a no threat to you
whatsoever, um so. And but there

450
00:32:54.640 --> 00:33:01.680
was also the scene where sam Neil
discovers the ballet footage, the footage of

451
00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:07.839
of his wife teaching ballet. Yes, I found that a really interesting moment

452
00:33:07.119 --> 00:33:10.359
because it seemed kind of like Samuel
was seeing a side of his wife he'd

453
00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:15.599
never seen before in the In the
video, I got that vibe as well.

454
00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:19.000
Yeah. So basically he discovers a
film strip, he plays it and

455
00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:23.400
it's his wife teaching a ballet class, and she's being kind of the way

456
00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:29.960
I've been told ballet teachers are and
being very cruel, very callous. Um,

457
00:33:30.200 --> 00:33:35.440
you were. I've been in dance
classes before, Yeah, can confirm.

458
00:33:35.759 --> 00:33:40.119
Yeah, so so the instructors were
very brutal. Yes, Actually I

459
00:33:40.160 --> 00:33:46.200
had one that just like, um
like constantly embarrassed me, very similar to

460
00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:52.200
that. Yeah, yeah, do
you mind giving It doesn't have to be

461
00:33:52.200 --> 00:33:53.440
in the example that was similar.
It could be anything, but like,

462
00:33:53.519 --> 00:33:58.160
what is an example of something that
the dance teachers do that's just like not

463
00:33:58.319 --> 00:34:04.359
okay? Um? I think Well, mine specifically would comment on like my

464
00:34:04.440 --> 00:34:07.960
weight and tell me that I was
like not skinny enough, and I would

465
00:34:08.199 --> 00:34:15.639
like it caused a whole thing during
college for me. Yeah, because I

466
00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:22.159
went to an acting conservatory and I
had dance as well. Um, it's

467
00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:25.400
a good thing to move your body, very good, It's true. Uh.

468
00:34:25.840 --> 00:34:30.840
She would specifically only like pick me
out and be like, okay,

469
00:34:30.880 --> 00:34:37.199
you show me the entire dance out
of the lineup of like I don't know

470
00:34:37.239 --> 00:34:44.880
how many students in our class.
And she did that multiple times. Um.

471
00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:47.800
Yeah, and that was at one
point one of my um, one

472
00:34:47.800 --> 00:34:52.440
of my classmates was like, yo, what's good? Like why are you

473
00:34:52.480 --> 00:34:59.079
always like picking on slease And she
was like, mine your business. I

474
00:34:59.079 --> 00:35:05.679
think she was. She was pretty
gross. That sounds freaking awful. Yeah,

475
00:35:05.719 --> 00:35:10.159
so she and she very much had
the same attitude as Isabelle Johnny Well,

476
00:35:10.199 --> 00:35:15.400
and there's a weird thing. Did
you see Whiplash? Yes, phenomenal

477
00:35:15.480 --> 00:35:20.679
movie. But one of the reasons
I love that movie, it's a movie

478
00:35:20.679 --> 00:35:24.719
about a drum instructor, a college
instructor play who teaches jazz drumming and stuff

479
00:35:24.719 --> 00:35:29.440
like that, and there's a drummer
who wants to be great and played by

480
00:35:29.519 --> 00:35:36.039
Miles Teller, And I love that
movie because what he the abuse he puts

481
00:35:36.079 --> 00:35:38.280
Miles Teller through does make Miles Teller
a better drummer, but that doesn't make

482
00:35:38.320 --> 00:35:44.400
it not abuse. And I think
that's an important point to make because when

483
00:35:44.440 --> 00:35:46.039
people do the defense of like,
well, yeah I taught it to you

484
00:35:46.159 --> 00:35:51.199
this way, but that's just you
know how it's how it's done. Is

485
00:35:51.239 --> 00:35:53.159
you know I push you because I
want you to be more, it's like,

486
00:35:54.039 --> 00:35:57.400
yeah, that might work, but
that doesn't mean it was moral.

487
00:35:57.800 --> 00:36:01.800
That doesn't mean that what you did
wasn't scarring for life. And sorry homie,

488
00:36:01.880 --> 00:36:06.199
but hurt people hurt people. So
I don't think you're you're screaming look

489
00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:07.639
that at your students just because you
want them to be great, and then

490
00:36:07.639 --> 00:36:10.440
you go home and you're super nice
to your cat or whatever. I think

491
00:36:10.519 --> 00:36:14.800
you're a prick somewhere inside you.
You need to hurt things that are young

492
00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:17.159
and remind you of yourself. And
that's not okay. I've seen it a

493
00:36:17.280 --> 00:36:22.239
lot to be frank Um. So
I work. I was actually talking about

494
00:36:22.239 --> 00:36:25.639
this earlier yesterday with a friend.
I worked in the professional wrestling business.

495
00:36:29.960 --> 00:36:34.679
I'm finding out so much about you, okay. So the only the only

496
00:36:34.840 --> 00:36:38.840
education I ever achieved was I graduated
from professional wrestling school. I have no

497
00:36:39.039 --> 00:36:45.400
other So I wanted to be a
professional wrestler and I surrounded myself with the

498
00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:52.000
business and at the time, being
five ft eight, no chance being a

499
00:36:52.039 --> 00:36:55.079
wrestler, almost none. Like most
trainers would be like you should go home.

500
00:36:58.480 --> 00:37:01.559
I accepted that, although five years
later it became normal because they stopped

501
00:37:01.639 --> 00:37:06.119
being giant herculean he mean, because
of you know, steroid laws and stuff.

502
00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:08.800
But when I wanted to be a
wrestler, I couldn't. So then

503
00:37:08.840 --> 00:37:12.360
I trained to become a manager.
You know, I don't know if you've

504
00:37:12.360 --> 00:37:15.880
ever watched pro wrestling, but like
they're the guy who talks for the wrestler

505
00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:19.880
and stands outside the ring and cheats
and stuff. I was very good at

506
00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:22.639
it, by the way. I
was a phenomenal bad guy wrestler, of

507
00:37:22.760 --> 00:37:25.360
course, and oh it's so much
fun. All you have to do is

508
00:37:25.400 --> 00:37:30.760
come out, get the microphone and
say I have never seen so many ugly,

509
00:37:30.400 --> 00:37:36.079
in bread ignorant people in my life. And they just start booing and

510
00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:40.599
yelling and telling you to die and
throwing popcorn at you. And but so

511
00:37:40.719 --> 00:37:44.239
I ended up going to pro wrestling
school when I was eighteen years old,

512
00:37:44.480 --> 00:37:45.920
and they trained me like a wrestler, but it was to be a manager.

513
00:37:46.679 --> 00:37:52.599
And there's a lot of hazing and
pro wrestling a lot. And I

514
00:37:52.760 --> 00:37:58.440
remember I drew the line with some
of the guys one time because they were

515
00:37:58.480 --> 00:38:01.800
telling me about a hazing and they
did to somebody before I was around that.

516
00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:06.599
I don't even want to say exactly
what it was because like it's so

517
00:38:06.760 --> 00:38:13.360
gross, but they did something very
disgusting to someone's food and then they ate

518
00:38:13.400 --> 00:38:16.000
it and they were like, hah, you ate that. And I looked

519
00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:17.840
him dead in the face and I
said, if you ever do that to

520
00:38:17.960 --> 00:38:22.519
me, I will go buy a
gun and shoot you. And he was

521
00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:24.239
like, dude, it's just like
that is not a rast. That's poisoning.

522
00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:28.559
If you put something in my food, I don't want my food,

523
00:38:29.159 --> 00:38:32.840
I will kill you. I mean, it's insane. It doesn't when you

524
00:38:32.880 --> 00:38:36.000
grow up with bikers, that's how
you learn to make your points, I

525
00:38:36.039 --> 00:38:38.400
guess, but but no, I
was. It was a way of saying,

526
00:38:38.440 --> 00:38:42.039
like, here's my line, man, don't cross it, like I'm

527
00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:45.400
dead serious, like you will not
it will not be laughed out, laughed

528
00:38:45.400 --> 00:38:47.199
off. But there were other hazing
things that weren't that big a deal,

529
00:38:47.280 --> 00:38:51.440
like you know, like tripping somebody
when they're in the ring or something.

530
00:38:51.559 --> 00:38:52.400
You know, it was like a
little embarrassing, but you could laugh it

531
00:38:52.480 --> 00:38:55.400
off. It's not like you got
hurt or anything. But there was so

532
00:38:55.519 --> 00:39:00.960
much hazing very popular was to like
this never happened to me, But I

533
00:39:00.039 --> 00:39:06.079
also guarded my stuff. Crapping in
people's bags was a very popular way to

534
00:39:06.119 --> 00:39:10.679
haze people in pro wrestling. That's
crazy and disgusting, like truly disgusting.

535
00:39:13.280 --> 00:39:15.880
So anyway, my point is that
there was this attitude like, well,

536
00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:20.960
this is how you learn it,
therefore it should be okay because this is

537
00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:23.719
how I learned it. And I
was very fortunate my instructors weren't that bad,

538
00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:25.760
but they I mean, to be
a pro wrestler, you have to

539
00:39:25.840 --> 00:39:29.599
learn to get punched in the face
again and again and again and again and

540
00:39:29.639 --> 00:39:32.800
again. And they did that like
I would learn like when I start,

541
00:39:32.880 --> 00:39:36.079
when you know, they'd be like, when I swing my fist, turn

542
00:39:36.159 --> 00:39:38.679
your head so I don't hit I
don't break your nose, and you'd do

543
00:39:38.840 --> 00:39:40.719
it and they'd hit you and you'd
be like, ah, and they'd a

544
00:39:40.800 --> 00:39:44.840
good job, I didn't break your
nose like or they'd be like, you

545
00:39:44.920 --> 00:39:46.800
need to learn how to take a
stomp, so fall down on the ground.

546
00:39:46.840 --> 00:39:51.679
And everyone in here is going to
kick you. It's like am I

547
00:39:51.760 --> 00:39:53.679
driving? Am I joining the crips? Or what's going on here? So

548
00:39:55.039 --> 00:39:58.559
I didn't. I mean, digressions
are kind of what we're all about here,

549
00:39:58.639 --> 00:40:00.800
But I don't want to talk about
pro wrestling too much. But my

550
00:40:00.880 --> 00:40:06.719
point is like, for me,
that was my experience of like kind of

551
00:40:06.760 --> 00:40:10.079
a messed up way to learn things
being seen as completely normal. And it

552
00:40:10.239 --> 00:40:13.760
wasn't easy to stand up to it. And I'll tell you right now,

553
00:40:13.920 --> 00:40:16.000
if I was in your dance class, well, first of all, I

554
00:40:16.199 --> 00:40:22.079
would be a queen. I'm so
good at moving. But second of all,

555
00:40:22.119 --> 00:40:24.480
I would have punched that lady right
in the face and she wouldn't have

556
00:40:24.519 --> 00:40:28.679
turned her head to keep her nose
from breaking, because that is not okay,

557
00:40:29.280 --> 00:40:32.000
man, it makes me it's not
yeah, but I bet you,

558
00:40:32.159 --> 00:40:35.440
I bet you, in some twisted
part of her brain, she thought she

559
00:40:35.519 --> 00:40:40.159
was helping you by being a total
Yeah, Pluta, I'm gonna go with

560
00:40:40.199 --> 00:40:45.000
Pluta. I was. I my
hit fist started clenching. I was like,

561
00:40:45.079 --> 00:40:46.840
what do I want to say?
But like, there's no reason to

562
00:40:46.880 --> 00:40:52.159
treat anybody like that. I hate
that, cutting deep into horror, will

563
00:40:52.199 --> 00:41:00.159
be right back. Did you just
did you just stick it out through the

564
00:41:00.199 --> 00:41:05.400
class or did you drop it?
No? I stuck it out, um,

565
00:41:06.800 --> 00:41:09.599
but it was very rough. Sure. Yeah, I was happy I

566
00:41:09.679 --> 00:41:14.719
didn't get her for the next semester, because sometimes you get the teacher again.

567
00:41:15.679 --> 00:41:19.599
So yeah, I stuck it out
for a semester. And she really

568
00:41:19.760 --> 00:41:23.719
wasn't even like one of the best
dance teachers, which was more like embarrassing

569
00:41:23.800 --> 00:41:29.320
for her. It was like,
okay, yeah, that sounds that sounds

570
00:41:29.360 --> 00:41:31.280
about right, you know, those
who can't do teach. I was gonna

571
00:41:31.320 --> 00:41:37.920
say. Another thing that I thought
was funny too, was that she just

572
00:41:37.159 --> 00:41:44.440
must be so mad because she actually
went to that school and graduated and then

573
00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:51.360
she just became a teacher there.
So I'm just like, not my problem,

574
00:41:51.480 --> 00:41:53.760
lady. I am liking the salty
salise we're getting right now. This

575
00:41:53.960 --> 00:41:59.039
is nice. I like it.
No, yeah, no, for real,

576
00:41:59.159 --> 00:42:01.679
And yeah, I hope she doesn't
work there anymore. She made me

577
00:42:01.920 --> 00:42:07.880
and many other people feel like shit. So I will say the only good

578
00:42:07.920 --> 00:42:10.320
thing she's probably ever done in her
worthless life is teach you to be a

579
00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:15.320
little bit more steadfast in your own
resolve. It's probably the best thing she'll

580
00:42:15.320 --> 00:42:17.239
ever do in her life. Everything
else shit, and she did it by

581
00:42:17.280 --> 00:42:22.280
being a bad person. So bad
news. Still a bad person for sure.

582
00:42:22.719 --> 00:42:25.280
So but I did want to bring
that up. And actually I had

583
00:42:25.320 --> 00:42:28.800
just had a feeling you would have
something to say about ballet, because I

584
00:42:28.840 --> 00:42:31.360
thought I remembered you saying you'd taken
dance or something. But I thought that

585
00:42:31.440 --> 00:42:35.440
that was really interesting. So in
the scene, she's making a girl hold

586
00:42:35.480 --> 00:42:38.800
a pose that's very painful and making
her hold it as high as she can,

587
00:42:39.519 --> 00:42:43.000
and I get it, she's trying
to get the girl to build strength,

588
00:42:43.079 --> 00:42:45.920
but she's also yelling at her.
The girl is crying. She's doing

589
00:42:45.960 --> 00:42:50.920
that in front of all of that
girl's peers. That stuff is not okay,

590
00:42:51.480 --> 00:42:53.440
you know. Yeah, it's like
dehumanizing. Oh god, yeah,

591
00:42:53.480 --> 00:42:58.280
well, and ballet is dehumanizing.
I mean, it's actually nothing against the

592
00:42:58.480 --> 00:43:01.280
art form. But that's the way. Everyone wears the same hairstyle, everyone

593
00:43:01.360 --> 00:43:07.719
wears the same clothes, everyone's roughly
the same body shape. And I get

594
00:43:07.800 --> 00:43:12.159
why, sure, but it's a
it's a rough business, and you're not

595
00:43:12.320 --> 00:43:20.079
meant to stick out, you're meant
to fit in. So but so anyway,

596
00:43:20.239 --> 00:43:22.199
now, I'm pretty mad about your
instructor. Now, by the way,

597
00:43:22.760 --> 00:43:29.760
I I'm pretty like things slide off
my back pretty easy, Like somebody

598
00:43:29.760 --> 00:43:31.159
could call me a name, but
then they call any friend of mine a

599
00:43:31.239 --> 00:43:34.519
name, and I'm like, how
do you want to die? I mean,

600
00:43:36.119 --> 00:43:37.559
like, which way do you want
to die? Boy? I'm gonna

601
00:43:37.639 --> 00:43:43.159
kill you? So I gotta know
house. Well, okay, next episode

602
00:43:43.239 --> 00:43:45.480
road trip to her house. We're
gonna just we're just gonna bump, We're

603
00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:49.000
gonna have microphones, We're just gonna
be like, I'm gonna why are you

604
00:43:49.119 --> 00:43:52.039
like this? Who aren't you talk
to us? What's your favorite horror movie?

605
00:43:52.639 --> 00:43:55.159
We have to ask that in order
for this to make sense. Um,

606
00:43:55.840 --> 00:44:01.880
so yeah, so, but yeah, So the ballet thing shows him

607
00:44:01.920 --> 00:44:07.039
that there's this element of her that
is not the soft, warm, loving

608
00:44:07.159 --> 00:44:14.920
woman that he knew. That was
a lot more callous and cold. And

609
00:44:15.639 --> 00:44:17.800
meanwhile, though he's just still trying
to keep it all together, you know,

610
00:44:17.960 --> 00:44:20.800
like, and he still wants her, even though he's starting to learn,

611
00:44:20.920 --> 00:44:22.599
like, you know, she's not
perfect, man, and maybe you

612
00:44:22.599 --> 00:44:27.599
should let her go if she wants
to go. He kind of every time

613
00:44:27.679 --> 00:44:30.440
she put pulls, he pulls harder, he wants, he wants more.

614
00:44:30.920 --> 00:44:34.800
I think like a part of that
too, is that, like does he

615
00:44:34.960 --> 00:44:37.679
really want her or is he just
incapable of being alone? Oh, that's

616
00:44:37.800 --> 00:44:42.719
definitely a part of it. That
is definitely a part of it. No,

617
00:44:42.840 --> 00:44:46.880
absolutely, well, yeah, and
we we think you and I think

618
00:44:47.079 --> 00:44:52.239
in a more modern sense than somebody
in that era would too. And that

619
00:44:52.400 --> 00:44:55.719
era, it wasn't considered a good
thing to be all by yourself, or

620
00:44:55.760 --> 00:44:59.599
to be alone or to live alone. It was, you know, family

621
00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:01.760
was a little bit less malleable than
it is now, without a doubt,

622
00:45:02.360 --> 00:45:06.280
you know, Like I said,
divorce was just really coming in vogue in

623
00:45:06.280 --> 00:45:09.400
the seventies and eighties. So before
that, people stuck it out. And

624
00:45:09.519 --> 00:45:12.519
I think, you know, there's
something to be said for sticking it out.

625
00:45:12.519 --> 00:45:15.440
And there's also somebody be said for
saying when you've had enough, you

626
00:45:15.519 --> 00:45:16.559
know, when you're done, you
know, because you got to be an

627
00:45:16.599 --> 00:45:22.840
adult, you gotta make your own
choices. And well, so on top

628
00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:30.280
of all this, the other women
in the film are odd, Like her

629
00:45:30.400 --> 00:45:36.239
friend, Oh my god, I
know, she's oh weird. She she

630
00:45:36.440 --> 00:45:42.480
has like a hate boner for she
has like a total hate boner for Samuel's

631
00:45:42.559 --> 00:45:45.599
character because she's like so mean to
him and then she just wants him.

632
00:45:45.280 --> 00:45:50.320
That character is very strange. It
makes zero sense to me, and her

633
00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:54.480
line delivery is atrocious. Well,
I mean that's fair. And while this

634
00:45:54.639 --> 00:45:58.280
is a foreign movie by the way, it was made for American well for

635
00:45:58.400 --> 00:46:00.920
international audiences, so it was it
was shot in English, so you know,

636
00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:06.559
we were actually seeing everyone's performances.
She was a very odd element.

637
00:46:07.239 --> 00:46:10.880
I got the vibe that she kind
of represented those like I think in New

638
00:46:10.960 --> 00:46:15.440
York they call him bag ladies,
you know, the like the old ladies

639
00:46:15.480 --> 00:46:16.920
that are just like, you know, walking with bags and they don't have

640
00:46:17.000 --> 00:46:21.960
anything to do. I think she's
kind of a bag lady. She's kind

641
00:46:22.000 --> 00:46:23.800
of this woman who's like, you
know, friends with his wife and is

642
00:46:23.840 --> 00:46:27.079
like, oh yeah, he's terrible. Like if he's treating you bad,

643
00:46:27.159 --> 00:46:29.239
leave him. And then the moment
it's like she left me, she's like,

644
00:46:29.519 --> 00:46:35.039
you know, I could use a
good man. You're like, ah,

645
00:46:35.199 --> 00:46:37.079
okay, so so I mean you
got your friendship with her, but

646
00:46:37.159 --> 00:46:40.280
then you've also got like, let's
be real, I'm living alone. I

647
00:46:40.320 --> 00:46:44.960
don't know if I love it.
So she kind of like in a very

648
00:46:45.079 --> 00:46:47.639
unsubtle way, starts like trying to
move in and his response is like,

649
00:46:49.360 --> 00:46:51.679
basically to just put his palm on
her forehead and be like, ah,

650
00:46:51.840 --> 00:46:55.559
get away from me, now,
stop with that. Super weird. But

651
00:46:55.719 --> 00:47:00.519
she offers to help him with Bob
because he's trying to out what to do.

652
00:47:00.639 --> 00:47:02.719
And the other thing I think that's
extra frustrating for him is he's between

653
00:47:02.880 --> 00:47:07.239
jobs, so it's not like he
could be like, well, when I

654
00:47:07.320 --> 00:47:08.599
get back from this next job,
we'll talk about it. No, it's

655
00:47:08.639 --> 00:47:12.280
like your home for the next few
months at least, and that was what

656
00:47:12.360 --> 00:47:14.440
he kept saying. He'd be like, I have the time. If we

657
00:47:14.519 --> 00:47:16.719
need to work through this, I
have the time, and she's like,

658
00:47:16.760 --> 00:47:20.519
I don't want to, you know, He's like, but I have the

659
00:47:20.639 --> 00:47:25.679
time. Like so I do think
I think that one element is probably the

660
00:47:25.880 --> 00:47:30.800
idea that when somebody leaves you,
you want them more. I think that

661
00:47:30.880 --> 00:47:32.920
that's a big part. I think
you're right about he doesn't want to be

662
00:47:32.960 --> 00:47:38.119
alone, absolutely, but I think
that at some point it stops being about

663
00:47:38.119 --> 00:47:42.119
the woman you love and starts being
about you want to accomplish the thing you're

664
00:47:42.119 --> 00:47:45.239
trying to accomplish, which is you
know, you want to win, for

665
00:47:45.360 --> 00:47:47.920
lack of a better term, And
I think that that is what really comes

666
00:47:47.960 --> 00:47:52.719
to be in the second hour of
the movie, is that he's just obsessed

667
00:47:52.800 --> 00:47:58.639
with getting her back, even though
everything is saying stop, everything is saying

668
00:47:58.760 --> 00:48:01.400
like your time is up with her, and it's probably weirder than you think

669
00:48:01.519 --> 00:48:05.559
or worse than you think. What's
going on. He's like, no,

670
00:48:05.639 --> 00:48:07.280
no, no, no, no, I'm gonna save her. I'm gonna

671
00:48:07.519 --> 00:48:08.599
like, I want my family to
be together, even if even if all

672
00:48:08.639 --> 00:48:13.880
we do is fight every day,
like we're gonna be together. Though um,

673
00:48:14.719 --> 00:48:19.400
not the most healthy attitude. Uh
maybe that I've heard he's wild.

674
00:48:19.880 --> 00:48:22.559
I wouldn't want to be with him
after he was slapping her around. Oh

675
00:48:22.719 --> 00:48:25.480
no, that was an amazing scene. I'm so glad you brought that up.

676
00:48:25.679 --> 00:48:30.840
It was that scene was really great. That that scene is when um

677
00:48:30.159 --> 00:48:37.280
the iconic shot of her like doing
that very sinister smile come right yeah,

678
00:48:37.639 --> 00:48:43.320
And so that that scene had me
like, I was like a choke old

679
00:48:43.360 --> 00:48:46.000
did that scene. I was like, like I read you min as.

680
00:48:46.039 --> 00:48:52.760
I just kept going, yeah,
it's a gasp factory. I'm going to

681
00:48:52.920 --> 00:48:57.760
use that from now on a gasp
factory. Well, and I'll tell you

682
00:48:58.960 --> 00:49:00.639
so. For people who haven't seen
this movie, I really recommend you do.

683
00:49:00.800 --> 00:49:06.639
But he prior to when he finally
just slaps her in the face,

684
00:49:07.599 --> 00:49:13.639
he never put his hands on her
in a overtly abusive way. He grabbed

685
00:49:13.679 --> 00:49:17.000
her a few times, not great, but he never just whacked her in

686
00:49:17.039 --> 00:49:22.039
the head or something. Yeah.
That, and when he does, there's

687
00:49:22.079 --> 00:49:28.519
this reaction between both of them that
that line has been crossed. M But

688
00:49:28.679 --> 00:49:31.960
the thing that disturbed me the most
was I got a sense that she wanted

689
00:49:32.079 --> 00:49:38.679
him to cross that line. And
that was what made that extra powerful to

690
00:49:38.760 --> 00:49:40.800
me. Was like he hits her, and after he hits her, he

691
00:49:40.840 --> 00:49:45.880
has this reaction like, oh God, like I hit her, and then

692
00:49:45.920 --> 00:49:47.480
she just looks at I'm like,
do it again, and he ends up

693
00:49:47.519 --> 00:49:52.920
just whooping on her. And the
whole thing was very strange. Oh,

694
00:49:53.000 --> 00:49:58.880
there's so much going on all at
once. I just know as a as

695
00:49:58.960 --> 00:50:04.239
a male flavored person that I it's
one of the worst relationships I was ever

696
00:50:04.360 --> 00:50:08.039
in. I sincerely believe that the
girl I was seeing wanted me to hit

697
00:50:08.119 --> 00:50:12.840
her. She would fight with me
and get in my face and shove me,

698
00:50:13.079 --> 00:50:15.199
and I think that she really wanted
me to hit her. I'm not

699
00:50:15.280 --> 00:50:19.960
saying for the same reason as in
this movie, but there's like an element

700
00:50:20.039 --> 00:50:22.719
of I don't know, control or
something to getting a man to be like

701
00:50:22.920 --> 00:50:27.000
the thing you really don't want to
because I'll tell you right now. You

702
00:50:27.079 --> 00:50:29.199
know, say what you want about
men, but men generally, they do

703
00:50:29.320 --> 00:50:32.639
not like men who hit women.
Men do not like men who hit women.

704
00:50:34.639 --> 00:50:37.639
And if I had ever hit my
X, which I never did,

705
00:50:38.360 --> 00:50:40.960
but if I had ever done it, I feel like I would have hated

706
00:50:42.039 --> 00:50:46.400
myself a lot. It would have
been a horrible loss of my own integrity

707
00:50:47.079 --> 00:50:50.880
and my own autonomy, if that
makes sense. I know this is really

708
00:50:50.960 --> 00:50:53.239
heavy, but I'm just it made
me think of it. It really did.

709
00:50:59.559 --> 00:51:01.840
It's okay, it's okay. Not
only do you have to do you're

710
00:51:01.840 --> 00:51:05.639
allowed to think about it. You're
also allowed to just disagree or just have

711
00:51:05.800 --> 00:51:08.760
no opinion about it. But I
got the sense that when he hit her

712
00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:14.760
that there was some kind of a
manipulation in a game involved. That's all

713
00:51:15.719 --> 00:51:16.960
because I definitely got the sense when
he hit her that that was the only

714
00:51:17.039 --> 00:51:21.559
time, that was the first time, rather that he'd hit her. So

715
00:51:22.639 --> 00:51:25.039
that's a powerful moment for everybody.
That's a powerful moment for her, and

716
00:51:25.079 --> 00:51:28.760
it's a powerful moment for him.
Becoming a person who hits his wife,

717
00:51:29.320 --> 00:51:31.119
it's not a good look. It's
not a good thing to transform into.

718
00:51:32.519 --> 00:51:36.199
And it's clear that this is That's
kind of the thing. Like, I

719
00:51:36.280 --> 00:51:38.760
have a rule in relationships, if
I ever yell at the top of my

720
00:51:38.880 --> 00:51:42.559
lungs, I'm out. Like,
if it ever gets so bad for me

721
00:51:42.639 --> 00:51:44.599
that I feel the need to yell
at the top of my lungs, I

722
00:51:44.719 --> 00:51:49.079
leave. Because for me, why
would I ever need to yell at the

723
00:51:49.079 --> 00:51:51.719
top of my lungs to anybody who
I want to be with or who I

724
00:51:51.800 --> 00:51:53.639
love? You know what I mean. We're not talking about like look out,

725
00:51:53.840 --> 00:51:58.320
you know. We're talking about you
know, arguments and stuff. And

726
00:51:58.960 --> 00:52:02.559
I'm very adverse to fights and stuff
like that. I don't I don't like

727
00:52:02.760 --> 00:52:07.559
Rachel and I my girlfriend. We've
never fought. We don't fight. We

728
00:52:07.679 --> 00:52:10.679
have minor disagreements at best. We're
very annoying and happy and it's stupid,

729
00:52:12.119 --> 00:52:15.480
but like, but yeah, so
I don't know. That was one of

730
00:52:15.519 --> 00:52:16.599
the things that made that seem so
powerful to me though, is that it

731
00:52:16.679 --> 00:52:24.800
was like both people, we're having
a massive moment, and I don't know.

732
00:52:25.119 --> 00:52:28.639
I wonder sometimes I wonder if she
was kind of like one of the

733
00:52:28.679 --> 00:52:31.280
reasons she seemed to be happy about
him hitting her was that it like proved

734
00:52:31.320 --> 00:52:35.039
to her he was not a good
husband, or maybe it made it would

735
00:52:35.039 --> 00:52:38.480
prove to him he wasn't a good
husband. I don't think she wanted him

736
00:52:38.639 --> 00:52:42.119
to hit her, well, I
mean, I mean, I think she

737
00:52:42.280 --> 00:52:45.559
wanted a very weird thing. I
don't think she wanted the first hit.

738
00:52:45.599 --> 00:52:47.880
I think that she wanted him to
keep hitting her, because she she did.

739
00:52:49.000 --> 00:52:51.000
She did the whole stance like you
can't hurt me. So he just

740
00:52:51.079 --> 00:52:52.559
kept hitting her and she wasn't reacting
to it. And I'm not saying that

741
00:52:52.639 --> 00:52:58.519
that's her fault. I'm saying like
this in this weird, nasty dichotomy of

742
00:52:58.679 --> 00:53:02.360
this truly talk six situation, and
that's why I like it is because it's

743
00:53:02.400 --> 00:53:06.639
so complex and I could totally be
wrong. It was just one of the

744
00:53:06.800 --> 00:53:08.880
one of the ways that I read
it was that once he hit her,

745
00:53:08.960 --> 00:53:10.639
she was just kind of like,
see, this is who you are,

746
00:53:12.280 --> 00:53:15.639
and now go on be who you
really are. Be the abusive husband,

747
00:53:15.679 --> 00:53:20.360
be the man who hits a woman. And that's heavy, and that's intense,

748
00:53:20.440 --> 00:53:23.119
and that's that's good shit. I
mean it's good writing. It's scary,

749
00:53:23.159 --> 00:53:29.079
and it gets through It definitely like
seeped into my bones this movie,

750
00:53:30.039 --> 00:53:31.880
you know, because that's kind of
my point, is that when you're in

751
00:53:31.960 --> 00:53:35.960
a really toxic situation, it just
brings out the worst than everybody involved.

752
00:53:37.000 --> 00:53:40.320
Everybody becomes their worst self. Um. I don't know about have you ever

753
00:53:40.400 --> 00:53:45.079
been in a toxic relationship? I
have been in plenty plenty? Is that

754
00:53:45.320 --> 00:53:51.360
Is that like a handsworth or more? Um? I will say a handsworth?

755
00:53:51.519 --> 00:53:53.840
Yes, okay, no, that's
fair. Um. By the time

756
00:53:53.920 --> 00:53:57.199
I was your age, I had
had a handsworth as well. Actually,

757
00:53:57.760 --> 00:54:02.960
um yeah, my first relationship was
extremely abusive, unfortunately. And I mean

758
00:54:04.000 --> 00:54:06.880
that was a long time ago.
I was like sixteen years old. But

759
00:54:07.000 --> 00:54:09.559
I don't recommend your first experience with
love being that way. It definitely can

760
00:54:09.639 --> 00:54:15.880
mess you up. That's true.
Yeah, But I I there was always

761
00:54:15.920 --> 00:54:19.920
this weird dichotomy because when what women
do to men is very is very different

762
00:54:19.960 --> 00:54:23.000
than what men do to women for
the most part, Like I always felt

763
00:54:23.039 --> 00:54:28.239
like I was like when I was
made to feel like I was being unreasonable,

764
00:54:28.280 --> 00:54:34.079
it was always like that I was
being threatening or scary, and I

765
00:54:34.239 --> 00:54:37.440
was just a little nerd who who
was just afraid of his tiny girlfriend.

766
00:54:37.599 --> 00:54:42.320
You know, like it's very weird. The dichotomy is the the amount of

767
00:54:43.920 --> 00:54:46.679
of of spots you can exploit in
someone's mind to to kind of hurt them

768
00:54:46.920 --> 00:54:51.960
when you know them. Well,
there's so much intimacy and intimacy. That's

769
00:54:52.000 --> 00:54:54.960
why some people are have a fear
of intimacy, because it gives people fuel

770
00:54:55.400 --> 00:55:01.280
to attack you or hurt you.
M Once, the last toxic relationship I

771
00:55:01.360 --> 00:55:06.639
was ever in, I was dating
this girl and I had told her in

772
00:55:06.719 --> 00:55:10.679
confidence because I was having a really
hard time that my greatest fear in life

773
00:55:10.800 --> 00:55:15.960
was that my work made it impossible
for me to have a real relationship because

774
00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:19.159
I worked so much. I worked
so hard. I told her that,

775
00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:22.400
and the moment I made her mad, she said that that's what was happening.

776
00:55:22.480 --> 00:55:24.239
She was like, I think that
you just worked too much and you

777
00:55:24.280 --> 00:55:31.039
can't love me. And instead of
feeling bad, I was just livid because

778
00:55:31.079 --> 00:55:36.000
I was like, you just said
back to me. The worst thing you

779
00:55:36.039 --> 00:55:38.559
could say to me because I told
you that, like I handed you that

780
00:55:38.800 --> 00:55:46.960
gun and you shot me with it. Like into BC's hard. Sorry,

781
00:55:47.679 --> 00:55:54.800
am I being a little heavy?
I think? So cutting deep into horror

782
00:55:55.159 --> 00:56:05.559
will be right back. That's one
of the things that grab me about this

783
00:56:05.639 --> 00:56:10.480
movie though, So uh, let's
see to get back over to the film.

784
00:56:10.599 --> 00:56:15.280
So another so another thing I had
noticed was I do think that the

785
00:56:16.079 --> 00:56:21.920
the Wall, the Berlin Wall,
was very much like a very much an

786
00:56:21.960 --> 00:56:27.039
element of there are bigger problems than
just the two of them, but they

787
00:56:27.079 --> 00:56:30.639
don't care. Like it's very clear
that there's like social unrest in in West

788
00:56:30.679 --> 00:56:36.119
Berlin in the movie, that people
are scarce and when they're around, they're

789
00:56:36.199 --> 00:56:40.320
kind of insane, and it seems
like everything is pointing towards something bad is

790
00:56:40.320 --> 00:56:49.559
about to happen. So let's see. Um. Oh, there was one

791
00:56:49.639 --> 00:56:52.639
point I wanted to mention to you
and see if what you thought about it.

792
00:56:52.360 --> 00:56:58.880
Um when he causes the private investigator
to go to her to find her

793
00:56:59.159 --> 00:57:04.360
and then he ends up getting murdered
by the creature. I noticed that after

794
00:57:05.280 --> 00:57:09.519
her husband sees her again, she
really hates him, like like her hate

795
00:57:09.599 --> 00:57:13.599
is way up, and it made
me wonder if maybe she resents him even

796
00:57:13.679 --> 00:57:17.679
more because he raised her body count, like he caused another her to basically

797
00:57:17.760 --> 00:57:21.480
kill another person, and that maybe
that was the other like that was one

798
00:57:21.480 --> 00:57:24.880
of the things that was making her
get more upset because I just noticed she

799
00:57:25.039 --> 00:57:28.480
was like her she was like up
to eleven on how much she hated him

800
00:57:28.519 --> 00:57:31.079
after that happened, and I was
wondering if maybe the madness of the whole

801
00:57:31.119 --> 00:57:35.840
situation hadn't fully had her yet.
So she was livid that she had to

802
00:57:35.880 --> 00:57:40.039
witness another person die because she wasn't, you know, all in on whatever

803
00:57:40.159 --> 00:57:44.519
the hell their deal is, because
we still I mean, you watch a

804
00:57:44.559 --> 00:57:46.960
whole movie, you don't know what
they their deal is, exactly right.

805
00:57:49.480 --> 00:57:54.000
It does seem like they're forming a
symbiotic relationship of some kind. So but

806
00:57:54.079 --> 00:57:57.920
that's all we really, we really
get. So I just that was one

807
00:57:57.960 --> 00:58:00.039
thought I had. And then of
course one of the greatest moments of the

808
00:58:00.079 --> 00:58:06.679
film, the subway scene. Oh
yeah, where she's just running down the

809
00:58:06.760 --> 00:58:15.320
subway going crazy, like just mad
as a hatter. And they should show

810
00:58:15.360 --> 00:58:20.159
that in acting schools. That's a
masterclass in acting well and it's a phenomenal

811
00:58:20.280 --> 00:58:25.159
example of if I had to describe
Oh gosh, what was Isabella Johnny's.

812
00:58:25.239 --> 00:58:34.079
If I had to describe her her
acting power, it would be vulnerability because

813
00:58:34.239 --> 00:58:37.039
I think vulnerability is the best tool
you can have in your tool kit as

814
00:58:37.039 --> 00:58:40.719
an actor, because vulnerability makes people
believe you. Absolutely, you have to

815
00:58:40.800 --> 00:58:44.920
be vulnerable to be an actress.
Absolutely, yeah, yeah, No,

816
00:58:45.119 --> 00:58:49.800
I think it's very true. I
think to do any art form that's performative,

817
00:58:50.079 --> 00:58:53.440
you have to have a degree of
it. And she was so vulnerable,

818
00:58:53.719 --> 00:58:57.719
and from what I heard, she
was actually very afraid that the director

819
00:58:57.840 --> 00:59:01.400
was making her look ugly and that
the direct was like making her act poorly.

820
00:59:01.760 --> 00:59:05.440
She was very afraid that the movie
was turning out horribly while they were

821
00:59:05.480 --> 00:59:09.000
making it, which makes sense though, because he was having her do crazy

822
00:59:09.119 --> 00:59:13.119
things, and I mean crazy from
an acting standpoint, like you just be

823
00:59:13.159 --> 00:59:16.400
the bigger, bigger, bigger,
bigger. She'd be like, how big

824
00:59:16.400 --> 00:59:19.280
do you want this? Do you
want me to flail my arms and scream?

825
00:59:19.320 --> 00:59:22.039
He's like, perfect, dude,
that And I could see why you

826
00:59:22.039 --> 00:59:28.559
would think that's cheesy. But her
vulnerability is so strong that anything she does

827
00:59:28.679 --> 00:59:30.360
that's weird or out or out of
this, you know, out of the

828
00:59:30.400 --> 00:59:37.840
realm of believability becomes believable because as
she's like literally just going nuts in a

829
00:59:37.920 --> 00:59:43.440
subway, her eyes are true.
I don't know how else to put it,

830
00:59:43.480 --> 00:59:46.760
because it's very like instinctual to me. But like I didn't laugh at

831
00:59:46.800 --> 00:59:52.480
that scene because of her eyes,
because she looked like something was really happening

832
00:59:52.559 --> 00:59:59.199
to her and it wasn't great.
Yeah, I think she really really believed

833
00:59:59.280 --> 01:00:02.119
what the character was going through.
Yeah, or the director was just tortuous

834
01:00:02.440 --> 01:00:08.639
either or you know, but yeah, so that was something worth I'm kind

835
01:00:08.679 --> 01:00:14.920
of worth mentioning. Was that subway
scene was incredible, And toward the end,

836
01:00:15.000 --> 01:00:17.400
when her husband starts realizing like,
oh, like there's a body count

837
01:00:17.679 --> 01:00:21.199
to this, like trying to figure
out what's going on with my wife,

838
01:00:21.800 --> 01:00:24.679
he stopped. He's like unfazed by
it because he's so insane for the chase,

839
01:00:25.360 --> 01:00:30.800
like he's so desperate to chase her
down and get her. And I

840
01:00:30.960 --> 01:00:32.199
have to say that the more I
talk about this movie with you, the

841
01:00:32.239 --> 01:00:40.000
more I'm realizing this is like a
like a masterpiece of codependent toxicity. Like

842
01:00:40.159 --> 01:00:46.280
this is a phenomenal story. It
doesn't matter that she is literally like possessed

843
01:00:46.320 --> 01:00:52.000
by some kind of evil, doesn't
matter. He becomes a worse person chasing

844
01:00:52.079 --> 01:00:55.880
her, and he becomes in the
wrong too. It's very you know,

845
01:00:55.960 --> 01:01:00.320
you don't expect a movie like this
to be so subtle in some ways because

846
01:01:00.360 --> 01:01:04.800
it's such an unsubtle film, but
it really delivers a lot. I'm so

847
01:01:04.920 --> 01:01:07.280
glad I watched it again. I'm
glad you you recommended we watch it because

848
01:01:08.280 --> 01:01:12.199
I got so much more from it
that second time, and I already liked

849
01:01:12.239 --> 01:01:17.679
it, but now I kind of
love it soum. So here's the big

850
01:01:17.760 --> 01:01:25.199
question. What do you think of
the ending? I think the ending,

851
01:01:25.480 --> 01:01:31.719
so I rewatched it earlier this morning. Rum. I struggle with the ending

852
01:01:31.719 --> 01:01:37.159
because I don't actually and people will
probably make fun of me because they're like,

853
01:01:37.440 --> 01:01:40.480
how is is one of your favorite
movies if you don't understand the ending.

854
01:01:43.360 --> 01:01:47.679
I think that the ending can be
interpreted, probably in multiple ways.

855
01:01:47.840 --> 01:01:53.199
I personally have no idea, like
what the fuck is happening? Um?

856
01:01:54.599 --> 01:02:01.239
All I know is that both of
these people wanted something different, like like

857
01:02:01.519 --> 01:02:09.119
he was so desperate to have her
be like this like ideal housewife who just

858
01:02:09.480 --> 01:02:17.000
is like there and takes care of
him and whatever, and she wanted her

859
01:02:17.119 --> 01:02:24.679
own thing, like she literally rebuilt
him this demon thing. So it's like

860
01:02:25.840 --> 01:02:31.400
both of them just wanted completely different
things. And it's but both of them

861
01:02:31.960 --> 01:02:36.880
were super toxic. Oh yeah,
well, and I almost forgot to mention

862
01:02:36.960 --> 01:02:42.679
the teacher. Yeah, Bob's teacher
is a beautiful young woman who is also

863
01:02:42.760 --> 01:02:49.320
played by Isabella Johnny with green contact
with very green contact lenses. And what

864
01:02:49.440 --> 01:02:54.239
did you read about her being a
doppelganger for for his wife? Um?

865
01:02:54.599 --> 01:03:00.440
So I was thinking about that,
do you know earlier and when she has

866
01:03:00.679 --> 01:03:06.199
the monologue about faith and chance.
Yeah, yeah, I assume that that

867
01:03:06.440 --> 01:03:14.519
doppelganger was faith. Yeah, she's
in all white, I don't know.

868
01:03:14.719 --> 01:03:16.679
And she seems very pure and like, yeah, I mean she works with

869
01:03:16.800 --> 01:03:21.239
children, right, she's generous to
children. There's always that saying about like

870
01:03:21.280 --> 01:03:23.400
you know how how kind someone is
by how they treat children and animals,

871
01:03:24.000 --> 01:03:28.400
so it's like a very kind person. Wow, that's a really good point.

872
01:03:28.440 --> 01:03:30.280
I hadn't thought of that. Yeah, really good point. My only

873
01:03:30.320 --> 01:03:34.039
thought was that he was just haunted
by her because he was so obsessed,

874
01:03:34.280 --> 01:03:37.400
so he was just seeing her as
his wife because she was doing like a

875
01:03:37.480 --> 01:03:42.000
wifely job by taking care of children
stuff that could be true too. But

876
01:03:43.320 --> 01:03:46.960
the best part is we're both right
and in that and if everyone's right,

877
01:03:47.000 --> 01:03:51.920
that also means everyone's wrong. So
yeay, us we did it. We're

878
01:03:52.000 --> 01:03:53.400
both as wrong as each other.
I love it. No, Um,

879
01:03:53.599 --> 01:03:57.760
that's a no, that's freaking awesome. I hadn't thought about that. The

880
01:03:57.840 --> 01:04:00.159
next time I watch it, I'm
probably going to be thinking about that when

881
01:04:00.199 --> 01:04:04.000
she gives the speech about chance and
faith and everything, I'm probably gonna like,

882
01:04:04.119 --> 01:04:08.400
watch a little closer. Yeah,
you should. It's such a great

883
01:04:08.440 --> 01:04:13.760
monologue as well, phenomenal monologue,
and the acting is really is great and

884
01:04:13.880 --> 01:04:15.840
I can't overstate it's the only movie
I've ever seen where I would describe the

885
01:04:15.880 --> 01:04:20.119
acting as both subtle and overstated at
the same time. I agree, actually,

886
01:04:20.480 --> 01:04:24.920
And that's the thing though, So
if you if you watched ten minutes

887
01:04:24.960 --> 01:04:29.800
of Possession, you might not realize
how good it is. But if you

888
01:04:29.880 --> 01:04:32.400
watch all two hours, and I
guarantee if you can't, if you watch

889
01:04:32.480 --> 01:04:36.360
past twenty minutes, you will watch
all two hours definitely. Yeah, But

890
01:04:36.480 --> 01:04:42.400
if you watch the whole movie,
it all the way people are acting stuff

891
01:04:42.440 --> 01:04:45.599
just makes sense. The style makes
sense. The actual story may not,

892
01:04:45.760 --> 01:04:49.159
but that's okay because we're here to
pick it apart and see what we think.

893
01:04:49.760 --> 01:04:54.599
And honestly, I think one of
the reasons I like you, Seles

894
01:04:54.760 --> 01:04:57.960
is that one of your favorite movies
is a movie you don't think you fully

895
01:04:58.039 --> 01:05:02.480
understand, because it's to like a
movie and not fully understand it. I

896
01:05:02.599 --> 01:05:04.960
think. So. I think it's
not only okay, I think it's a

897
01:05:05.000 --> 01:05:09.679
great it's a great way to go
because it that shows that you don't have

898
01:05:09.760 --> 01:05:12.679
an insecurity about it, you know, if that makes sense, Like you're

899
01:05:12.719 --> 01:05:14.159
just like, no, I love
this movie. What does the end?

900
01:05:14.199 --> 01:05:15.119
I mean, I don't really know, but I like to think about it.

901
01:05:16.159 --> 01:05:19.360
Yeah, every time I watch it, I think about it and I'm

902
01:05:19.440 --> 01:05:23.719
like, I still can't figure it
out. But one day I'm going to

903
01:05:23.800 --> 01:05:26.760
figure it out. That's beauty of
it. That's the beauty of rewatching it.

904
01:05:26.840 --> 01:05:30.159
For me, I'm gonna re watch. I'm probably gonna make my girlfriend

905
01:05:30.199 --> 01:05:34.079
watch it because she loves heady movies. Like if I watch a movie,

906
01:05:35.000 --> 01:05:40.360
all it's up there without a doubt. Like I love showing her heady movies

907
01:05:40.400 --> 01:05:45.000
because she loves to interpret. She's
even more analytical about it than I am

908
01:05:45.039 --> 01:05:47.679
in a lot of ways. So
we'll finish watching a movie like like,

909
01:05:49.079 --> 01:05:51.599
we both saw bos Afraid together.
So then we got in the car and

910
01:05:51.639 --> 01:05:55.000
we were just dead quiet, and
then I looked over and I was like,

911
01:05:55.800 --> 01:05:57.519
did you hate that? She said
I hated it. I was like,

912
01:05:57.519 --> 01:06:00.760
okay, yeah, I didn't like
it either, because we Oh my

913
01:06:00.880 --> 01:06:03.880
god, I hate that movie as
well. But it was funny because the

914
01:06:03.920 --> 01:06:06.159
reason it felt so good to be
able to be like did you hate it?

915
01:06:06.199 --> 01:06:08.920
Okay? I did too, because
it was like we were both sitting

916
01:06:08.920 --> 01:06:12.239
there like maybe the because I was
actually sitting there hoping she was going to

917
01:06:12.320 --> 01:06:15.880
convince me that it was good.
I was hoping she'd seen something I missed.

918
01:06:17.079 --> 01:06:20.480
That's so funny. When I came
out of the theater with my partner

919
01:06:20.559 --> 01:06:24.599
after seeing bo was Afraid, I
looked at them and I was like,

920
01:06:26.159 --> 01:06:31.000
Ari Aster is in his flop era. Well, he got too much power,

921
01:06:33.440 --> 01:06:36.760
just like from the fact that they
were like, let's let you make

922
01:06:36.840 --> 01:06:42.239
the most expensive movie of your career
and of our studios career, and it

923
01:06:42.320 --> 01:06:46.599
could just be whatever. I would
have liked that movie if it had given

924
01:06:46.639 --> 01:06:51.000
a real resolution, because I thought
it had interesting concepts, but it just

925
01:06:51.159 --> 01:06:55.760
kind of petered out and gave up. That's my opinion. But we're not

926
01:06:55.840 --> 01:06:58.840
talking about Boa Is Afraid because and
we never will because neither of us life.

927
01:07:00.079 --> 01:07:01.280
One of us has to like the
movie to get it in. That's

928
01:07:01.280 --> 01:07:09.400
the cost of admission. I yeah, probably, maybe maybe if I have

929
01:07:09.480 --> 01:07:11.920
the flu and I'm like on Niquell, I'll give it a shot. You

930
01:07:11.960 --> 01:07:14.639
know, maybe I'll figure something out
about it. Like you couldn't pay me

931
01:07:14.800 --> 01:07:17.440
enough to watch it, that's a
challenge. Let's get the go fund me

932
01:07:17.559 --> 01:07:24.119
up. So so, with all
this stuff happening, other little things to

933
01:07:24.199 --> 01:07:27.440
mention, the school teacher ends up
helping him at home. They don't end

934
01:07:27.519 --> 01:07:30.639
up sleeping together, but they almost
do if I remember correctly. Yeah,

935
01:07:30.239 --> 01:07:33.480
but he kind of turns it down
again. You know, maybe that's because

936
01:07:34.119 --> 01:07:39.960
he's bewitched by his wife or maybe
you know. They also make reference,

937
01:07:40.000 --> 01:07:44.119
I think, to him being impotent. I think there were references, small

938
01:07:44.199 --> 01:07:47.280
references, pardon the pun, reference
to him being impotent or having moments where

939
01:07:47.280 --> 01:07:51.519
he's impotent. So um. There's
also a great moment toward the beginning when

940
01:07:51.519 --> 01:07:55.480
she asks him if she cheated on
him or if he cheated on her while

941
01:07:55.480 --> 01:07:58.320
he was gone, and he says
not really, I think was the phrase.

942
01:07:59.039 --> 01:08:04.599
Yeah, he said some kind of
a weird dismissive thing, which was

943
01:08:04.760 --> 01:08:13.320
weird and not not. I hate
him actually really yeah? Oh yeah,

944
01:08:13.400 --> 01:08:15.680
no, I mean he is.
He is like from the beginning on,

945
01:08:17.039 --> 01:08:24.359
just like calm down, like stop
following her around in his face that want

946
01:08:24.399 --> 01:08:27.920
to be near you. That was
his big problem was he would not really

947
01:08:27.960 --> 01:08:30.680
give her space except when he went
to that hotel for three weeks or whatever

948
01:08:30.680 --> 01:08:34.000
it was. It's crazy. It's
like all all that matters is like his

949
01:08:34.319 --> 01:08:39.680
needs. Her needs are like secondary, like she doesn't want to be near

950
01:08:39.800 --> 01:08:43.000
you, why are you following her? Well? And from his perspective,

951
01:08:43.119 --> 01:08:46.399
his needs are the family's needs,
right, which is like he's kind of

952
01:08:46.680 --> 01:08:54.720
using that his own advantage. It's
like, shut the fuck up. I

953
01:08:54.960 --> 01:09:00.960
love Salty. It's just crazy.
I don't, no, no, no,

954
01:09:00.439 --> 01:09:04.079
I love it. I just feel
like his character is like a man

955
01:09:04.319 --> 01:09:10.039
that just like cannot handle like a
woman wanting to be in charge for all

956
01:09:10.119 --> 01:09:15.880
night, like fuck up. For
the record, the reason he has trouble

957
01:09:15.960 --> 01:09:20.520
understood, the reason he's fighting it
is because he doesn't understand. He definitely

958
01:09:20.680 --> 01:09:24.600
doesn't, and that's what he wants
more than anything. He just wants to

959
01:09:24.800 --> 01:09:27.880
know why she's leaving him, And
when she doesn't really have an answer,

960
01:09:29.159 --> 01:09:31.560
that begins he just goes mad instead
of just like, you know, I

961
01:09:31.640 --> 01:09:34.039
don't know, just getting some ben
and Jerry's like the rest of us.

962
01:09:35.319 --> 01:09:43.600
Yeah, he is something no,
no, and he gets worse as the

963
01:09:43.680 --> 01:09:46.199
movie progresses. He becomes a worse
person. There's no doubt he does.

964
01:09:46.760 --> 01:09:55.760
Like the scene in the kitchen when
she has them the like saw for the

965
01:09:55.880 --> 01:10:01.239
meat and she cuts her neck like
they're screaming at each other. I feel

966
01:10:01.239 --> 01:10:05.640
like she's just so desperate, Like
she's like telling him like leave me alone,

967
01:10:05.920 --> 01:10:11.279
like and he's just still pressing.
Oh yeah, it's like, can

968
01:10:11.399 --> 01:10:16.520
you shut up? Then he does
something really interesting though, After she goes

969
01:10:16.560 --> 01:10:20.479
to bandage herself up, he cuts
himself with the same the same implement on

970
01:10:20.560 --> 01:10:25.399
his arm. Yeah, it's so
fucking weird. You know why I think

971
01:10:25.439 --> 01:10:29.000
he did that. I think he
did that to feel closer to her.

972
01:10:30.520 --> 01:10:32.199
That could make sense, Yeah,
I could see that. Because I don't

973
01:10:32.239 --> 01:10:36.800
deny that this guy loves her.
I do deny that he has a healthy

974
01:10:36.880 --> 01:10:43.399
understanding of much of anything at this
point. So that's why I like that

975
01:10:43.520 --> 01:10:45.880
though. I like the complication.
I like the idea of looking at a

976
01:10:45.960 --> 01:10:48.560
character that I believe is wrong and
then finding the things I agree with,

977
01:10:49.159 --> 01:10:51.279
but then also being like, yeah, so I get why you'd be like

978
01:10:51.359 --> 01:10:56.760
this, but not like that.
I can get you being mad about it.

979
01:10:56.760 --> 01:10:59.119
I could get you, you know, calling um, you know your

980
01:10:59.159 --> 01:11:01.199
buddy would be like what a bit
shout out of but you know, chasing

981
01:11:01.239 --> 01:11:03.640
her even after she's like begging you
to leave her alone. It's a lot.

982
01:11:04.039 --> 01:11:06.840
And then it's a lot. And
then being okay with like hiding the

983
01:11:06.920 --> 01:11:12.359
corpses of people that you assume she
just murdered. That's a lot. He's

984
01:11:12.600 --> 01:11:15.199
a lot, and she's a lot
as well. But it's just like he's

985
01:11:15.239 --> 01:11:24.560
so controlling, relax, like give
it a day or two. Like every

986
01:11:24.760 --> 01:11:29.640
day he's like obsessed with trying to
figure out where she is. Would she

987
01:11:29.760 --> 01:11:36.159
do it? Like stalking her?
Like come on, well, and I

988
01:11:36.279 --> 01:11:39.960
will say, there is that one
scene where he shows up at the house

989
01:11:40.680 --> 01:11:44.760
and Bob is like completely untaken care
of, like he was left all alone

990
01:11:44.800 --> 01:11:47.039
and he's filthy and oh yeah,
and stuff. So there is that moment,

991
01:11:47.079 --> 01:11:54.920
which unfortunately just feeds his desire to
force the family back together because now

992
01:11:55.000 --> 01:11:56.720
he's like, well, you can't
even take care of Bob, and he

993
01:11:56.920 --> 01:12:00.119
is right, she shouldn't have done
that. But I think and I think

994
01:12:00.159 --> 01:12:03.000
that's like an unfortunate moment because if
that hadn't happened, maybe he could have

995
01:12:03.079 --> 01:12:08.720
lost some of his psychosis. But
but no, just by chance, she

996
01:12:08.800 --> 01:12:11.640
didn't take care of the kid that
day, So now you really want to

997
01:12:11.680 --> 01:12:14.680
pull everything back together, or at
the very least take Bob away from her.

998
01:12:14.680 --> 01:12:17.920
And maybe taking Bob away from her
wasn't a bad idea knowing what we

999
01:12:18.039 --> 01:12:23.520
know now, you know that you
know that the person she was leaving her

1000
01:12:23.520 --> 01:12:28.159
family for was not a person but
instead an object of unspeakable evil. And

1001
01:12:28.920 --> 01:12:33.359
so to wrap this up, my
thought is, I think that this movie

1002
01:12:33.399 --> 01:12:38.039
has a lot to do with the
writer director's experience with divorce of his home

1003
01:12:38.159 --> 01:12:42.079
nation, because he was a very
proud pole. He was very proud to

1004
01:12:42.119 --> 01:12:45.079
be Polish, he was very proud
of his country. He'd made movies there

1005
01:12:45.119 --> 01:12:47.079
proudly. Then all of a sudden
they kind of turned on him and he

1006
01:12:47.119 --> 01:12:53.199
felt like, why are you turning
on me, So I feel like maybe

1007
01:12:53.359 --> 01:12:56.520
that's a drawing point and the idea
that it's like, what, I love

1008
01:12:56.600 --> 01:12:58.800
you and you love me, why
are you leaving? It's like I don't

1009
01:12:58.840 --> 01:13:00.720
want to be with you where I
don't under dance, Like maybe you don't

1010
01:13:00.800 --> 01:13:04.640
understand because you don't want to understand, or you shouldn't understand because I mean,

1011
01:13:04.960 --> 01:13:09.399
I think you know Poland, if
we're using the Poland metaphor, Poland

1012
01:13:09.479 --> 01:13:14.239
did have darker reasons behind censoring artists
and stuff. It was because they were

1013
01:13:14.319 --> 01:13:19.279
totalitarian and they were kind of sort
of cowtowing to the Soviet Union. They

1014
01:13:19.319 --> 01:13:24.840
weren't officially a member of the Soviet
Union, but they but they were very

1015
01:13:25.079 --> 01:13:29.279
I mean they were in a communist
nation themselves. So that's kind of like

1016
01:13:29.479 --> 01:13:32.119
my if I had to really think
about like what I think inspired the story,

1017
01:13:32.199 --> 01:13:35.239
it would be that kind of divorce
would be very painful and you would

1018
01:13:35.279 --> 01:13:39.840
feel abandoned and you'd feel like you
should stick it out. But then he

1019
01:13:39.960 --> 01:13:45.760
made it interesting by making both of
the characters obscenely toxic, I mean,

1020
01:13:45.880 --> 01:13:51.479
just so toxic that there should be
a warning label on them. So as

1021
01:13:51.560 --> 01:13:56.920
the film wraps up, sam Neil
is approached about being a spy some more.

1022
01:13:57.039 --> 01:13:59.680
He doesn't want to be, but
it turns out he probably can't get

1023
01:13:59.680 --> 01:14:01.000
out of it. And now they're
going to bust his wife for killing these

1024
01:14:01.039 --> 01:14:06.800
people because nobody assumes that it's a
tentacle creature man. The ending is so

1025
01:14:06.920 --> 01:14:12.279
crazy. As I'm recounting it,
I'm like, oh my god, Yeah,

1026
01:14:12.359 --> 01:14:15.720
so Heinrich's dead. Heinrich's mother commits
suicide in front of sam Neil.

1027
01:14:16.239 --> 01:14:20.199
That was wild. Yeah. Yeah, his mother's like not an invalid,

1028
01:14:20.239 --> 01:14:24.399
but she's a little old lady.
Yeah, you know, she's a little

1029
01:14:24.399 --> 01:14:30.800
old lady, and she seems so
content when she kills herself. She's like

1030
01:14:30.960 --> 01:14:33.119
very happy to just take the pills
and lay down in the bed. And

1031
01:14:33.920 --> 01:14:40.439
that's it very disturbing. It's bothering
me even now as I'm thinking about it,

1032
01:14:42.000 --> 01:14:50.279
cutting deep into horror. Will be
right back in one of the last

1033
01:14:50.439 --> 01:14:55.319
gasps of Samuel trying to save his
family, I guess in his perspective,

1034
01:14:56.079 --> 01:15:01.479
he double crosses the cops, sets
them up, and then goes on the

1035
01:15:01.560 --> 01:15:04.880
run as they're like shooting at him
and chasing him down. Also, did

1036
01:15:04.960 --> 01:15:08.760
you notice the pink socks. I
noticed the pink socks this time. I

1037
01:15:10.359 --> 01:15:14.119
called them out actually to Rocca.
Oh that's great. So there's a reference.

1038
01:15:14.560 --> 01:15:16.079
When he's meeting with the people who
are paying him for being a spy,

1039
01:15:16.439 --> 01:15:18.520
one of the questions is like,
is the person you're working to are

1040
01:15:18.560 --> 01:15:24.479
still wear pink socks? They just
ask that. And then at the end,

1041
01:15:24.560 --> 01:15:28.880
when all the cops or whoever they
are are coming up these stairs to

1042
01:15:29.000 --> 01:15:31.239
go get him, one of them
pulls his leg up and there's pink socks.

1043
01:15:31.840 --> 01:15:35.479
Yeah. I love it because the
thing that makes a movie like this

1044
01:15:35.640 --> 01:15:39.439
great compared to a movie like I
hate to but like bo Is Afraid or

1045
01:15:39.439 --> 01:15:43.800
whatever is I really feel like everything
matters in this movie. I don't feel

1046
01:15:43.800 --> 01:15:46.359
like there's anything superfluous. I don't
feel like there's anything that was put there

1047
01:15:46.399 --> 01:15:49.199
just for the heck of it.
I feel like everything is there to serve

1048
01:15:49.239 --> 01:15:53.479
a purpose for the audience. And
I freaking love that. You know,

1049
01:15:53.640 --> 01:15:56.439
even if the pink socks was just
to remind you that his life is not

1050
01:15:56.760 --> 01:16:00.680
normal by reminding you, oh,
yeah, he also has by stuff.

1051
01:16:00.800 --> 01:16:02.439
This guy could be an enemy is
or a friend, we don't know.

1052
01:16:03.640 --> 01:16:06.479
And when you're a spy. Do
you even have either, Really, you

1053
01:16:06.520 --> 01:16:12.359
don't have friends or enemies. So
he just they're just people. But so

1054
01:16:12.640 --> 01:16:16.479
he ends up going up the staircase
he's been shot the and then he runs

1055
01:16:16.520 --> 01:16:23.359
into his wife, who then introduces
him to his doppel ganger, a sam

1056
01:16:23.479 --> 01:16:29.039
Neil, with a completely different body
stance, like he stands different. His

1057
01:16:29.159 --> 01:16:32.640
eyes are black or extremely dark brown. It was hard. They were definitely

1058
01:16:32.720 --> 01:16:38.239
not his baby blues. Samuel has
beautiful blue eyes, and what a beautiful

1059
01:16:38.279 --> 01:16:43.479
man. He's a very beautiful man. But so he has these dark eyes

1060
01:16:43.760 --> 01:16:47.159
and he has a you know,
he like it's funny saying this because like

1061
01:16:47.439 --> 01:16:50.079
he was. Samuel is a part
of the Omen movies. He's like Damien

1062
01:16:50.159 --> 01:16:55.439
from the Omen. Like he's just
kind of hello, and you're like hi,

1063
01:16:55.560 --> 01:16:57.760
and he's like I might end the
world but I don't know yet.

1064
01:16:58.039 --> 01:17:01.159
And you're like, yeah, good
story, bro, good story. I

1065
01:17:01.279 --> 01:17:04.279
love that performance, even though it's
very short. Oh it's brilliant. No,

1066
01:17:04.479 --> 01:17:09.840
they're so good in this. Yeah, it really isn't it. It's

1067
01:17:09.840 --> 01:17:13.880
a testament to how great performance is
even with a story that may to a

1068
01:17:13.960 --> 01:17:16.520
lot of people not make any sense
at all, makes works brilliantly. I

1069
01:17:18.760 --> 01:17:20.920
I really love this movie. It's
probably gonna end up my top ten.

1070
01:17:21.640 --> 01:17:25.680
Wow, that's great. No,
it's it's a big it's a big win

1071
01:17:25.800 --> 01:17:29.000
for me. That's why I'm like
overexcited and talking so fast because I'm like,

1072
01:17:29.039 --> 01:17:31.399
but then that happened, do you
remember how great that was? But

1073
01:17:31.640 --> 01:17:39.199
um, but also now the cops
come and they're shooting at them. They

1074
01:17:39.279 --> 01:17:45.920
end up killing Sam Neil and Isabella
Johnny and apparently bullets don't affect the Doppelganger

1075
01:17:45.119 --> 01:17:50.920
at all. And I would have
if not for the scene when the Doppelganger

1076
01:17:51.039 --> 01:17:56.720
escaped, I would have thought the
Doppelganger was imaginary. But then he interacts

1077
01:17:56.760 --> 01:17:59.279
with somebody at the top floor and
says like, will you help me escape?

1078
01:18:00.279 --> 01:18:01.800
M hmmm, So now it's like, okay, so a third party

1079
01:18:01.920 --> 01:18:10.239
is confirmed. He exists to me, so he's real. And I have

1080
01:18:10.319 --> 01:18:14.600
definitely been struggling to think of what
I think of the Doppelgang or ending,

1081
01:18:16.239 --> 01:18:24.199
like was that was that Doppelganger meant
to replace Sam Neil? Like I don't

1082
01:18:24.239 --> 01:18:30.399
know, thinks so maybe I don't
know. Uh, It's it's really weird.

1083
01:18:30.720 --> 01:18:36.600
It's very confusing also because then it's
like she she gets shot and then

1084
01:18:36.680 --> 01:18:44.119
she just shoots herself well both of
them really, and then they they die.

1085
01:18:44.359 --> 01:18:45.439
So it was weird because it was
like, oh, I thought she

1086
01:18:45.520 --> 01:18:53.319
was trying to build like the perfect
partner or whatever, yeah, with his

1087
01:18:53.640 --> 01:18:58.640
face and body whatever, But then
she just dies. Yeah, and and

1088
01:18:58.760 --> 01:19:02.039
and she donnaldly dies. She like
crawls on top of him and like gets

1089
01:19:02.079 --> 01:19:08.079
into like a loving embrace to die
with him. And I mean, I

1090
01:19:08.159 --> 01:19:11.399
get maybe some of that is that
she understood, like what all he went

1091
01:19:11.479 --> 01:19:15.159
through to try to help her,
even though it didn't help anyone. Maybe

1092
01:19:15.640 --> 01:19:21.199
she definitely had some feelings for him
remaining, and which I find again,

1093
01:19:21.319 --> 01:19:25.319
I love complicatedness. I love the
idea like that it yet it's not cut

1094
01:19:25.399 --> 01:19:27.319
and dry. It's like she hates
him, except that when she's dying,

1095
01:19:27.399 --> 01:19:30.880
she decides to hold him. People
are complicated, what do you want?

1096
01:19:31.000 --> 01:19:41.199
But when I think about the Doppelganger, this one really gets me because I

1097
01:19:41.319 --> 01:19:44.159
don't know exactly what I think about
it, let alone what they were trying

1098
01:19:44.199 --> 01:19:47.760
to accomplish with it. Yeah,
in a way, it's like if you

1099
01:19:47.920 --> 01:19:51.119
love something, set it free.
Came into my head when I thought about

1100
01:19:51.119 --> 01:19:56.239
the doppelganger. She just lets the
doppelganger go and knows she's got to die

1101
01:19:56.279 --> 01:20:03.039
with her husband because they're both mortal
and going to die. Or maybe the

1102
01:20:03.279 --> 01:20:09.920
thing left her. Maybe the thing
was like, well, now that I'm

1103
01:20:09.960 --> 01:20:13.039
corporeal and can and have two legs, I'm gonna go do stuff, so

1104
01:20:14.840 --> 01:20:16.800
audios, Yeah, I gotta go. I have a yoga instructor I'm seeing

1105
01:20:16.840 --> 01:20:20.640
now, you know. And but
I don't know. I'm just those are

1106
01:20:20.720 --> 01:20:26.960
just two of my thoughts. I'm
what it might mean, I don't know

1107
01:20:27.079 --> 01:20:30.720
what it means. That's and that's
a perfectly fair answer. And I can't

1108
01:20:30.720 --> 01:20:33.319
even say that I'm confident in my
in my ideas. Those are just theories

1109
01:20:33.359 --> 01:20:38.279
I think I thought of. And
of course, while all of this happen

1110
01:20:38.359 --> 01:20:43.159
is happening, it appears World War
three is breaking out outside because there are

1111
01:20:43.520 --> 01:20:47.279
bomber sirens play. Yeah, it
appears that at the very least, they're

1112
01:20:47.399 --> 01:20:53.439
establishing that like Eastern Europe and Eastern
Europe, Eastern Germany and Western Germany might

1113
01:20:53.439 --> 01:20:57.880
be going at war with each other, which was something people were worried about,

1114
01:20:58.359 --> 01:21:04.399
was that there'd be a civil war. So it seems like maybe some

1115
01:21:04.520 --> 01:21:06.920
people, I know, I've read
that some people think that that was saying

1116
01:21:06.960 --> 01:21:12.520
the entire world ended like that,
that was like the apocalypse, basically that

1117
01:21:12.600 --> 01:21:15.479
World War three was starting and everybody
was going to die. Because you gotta

1118
01:21:15.479 --> 01:21:17.439
remember, this is dead ass in
the middle of the Cold War. So

1119
01:21:17.600 --> 01:21:20.640
it's like, you fight the Soviet
Union, you fight a bunch of nuclear

1120
01:21:20.680 --> 01:21:24.560
bombs, you fight America, you
fight a bunch of nuclear bombs. It's

1121
01:21:24.640 --> 01:21:30.279
not a not a great situation.
So but yeah, so so the movie

1122
01:21:30.399 --> 01:21:39.159
ends with possibly the entire world ending, and that's possession. That is possession.

1123
01:21:39.640 --> 01:21:44.399
I I don't know that I've ever
loved a bat shit movie more that

1124
01:21:44.720 --> 01:21:49.000
is this good. Like there are
batshit movies I love, you know,

1125
01:21:49.159 --> 01:21:55.560
like um, like Nightmare City,
the zombie movie from Italy. That movie

1126
01:21:55.720 --> 01:21:58.680
is you would love it. I
mean, it's just fun, dumb fun.

1127
01:21:59.079 --> 01:22:01.239
But it is the most ridiculous movie
ever. Every time I show it

1128
01:22:01.279 --> 01:22:03.199
to people, it's always at like
a party. And whenever I show it,

1129
01:22:03.239 --> 01:22:05.239
people bag man, this movie's ridiculous, And I'll lean over and be

1130
01:22:05.319 --> 01:22:09.840
like, they haven't even gotten to
the aerobic studio yet, and then they

1131
01:22:09.960 --> 01:22:12.119
laugh, and then there's an aerobic
studio, and I'm like, I fucking

1132
01:22:12.159 --> 01:22:15.159
told you, man, so like
it's a very odd movie, but it's

1133
01:22:15.199 --> 01:22:19.479
not a great movie by any stretch. It's just very entertaining. This movie

1134
01:22:19.600 --> 01:22:25.159
is bonkers, and I think it's
a phenomenal movie. And I don't fall

1135
01:22:25.279 --> 01:22:29.319
for like the hype of things being
brilliant either. Like I watched this and

1136
01:22:29.720 --> 01:22:34.760
I was like, no, this
is really good, damn it. I'm

1137
01:22:34.840 --> 01:22:38.680
glad that you loved it. I
did, No, I really did.

1138
01:22:38.760 --> 01:22:42.119
And just talk about a heavy movie. So if you like movies that challenge

1139
01:22:42.199 --> 01:22:49.239
you about relationships, about self,
about gosh, if whether or not you

1140
01:22:49.359 --> 01:22:57.920
are the maker of your own evil. Yes, oh, one of the

1141
01:22:58.000 --> 01:23:01.000
best lines from the film. Man, it's so good. Now. The

1142
01:23:01.119 --> 01:23:03.840
movie's full of great stuff like that. It's definitely a movie I would say

1143
01:23:03.840 --> 01:23:08.560
you need to watch at least twice
to get it, because the first go

1144
01:23:08.640 --> 01:23:11.039
around I really liked it. The
second go around, I loved it.

1145
01:23:12.520 --> 01:23:15.760
There's just so much to take in. There's no way we would ever be

1146
01:23:15.800 --> 01:23:21.479
able to talk about all of it
at all, but it was really that's

1147
01:23:21.560 --> 01:23:26.920
really good. And now I'm actually
signed because I'm like, what was the

1148
01:23:27.000 --> 01:23:31.399
doppelganger for Yeah, that's gonna be
a tough thing to figure out. They

1149
01:23:31.439 --> 01:23:38.840
don't make it easy to understand.
I fear well, so it's easy to

1150
01:23:38.920 --> 01:23:42.399
forget because the ending, the last
twenty minutes of that movie, so much

1151
01:23:42.479 --> 01:23:46.880
happens. So after the parents are
dead and the doppelganger runs escapes, we

1152
01:23:47.039 --> 01:23:54.960
go to Helen, the school teacher, and she's watching Bob and it appears

1153
01:23:55.039 --> 01:23:58.880
that the doppelganger is ringing the doorbell, and for some reason, Bob starts

1154
01:23:58.920 --> 01:24:01.840
freaking out and jumps upstairs, goes
upstairs and jumps into a bathtub and drowns

1155
01:24:01.920 --> 01:24:11.800
himself. Yeah uh yeah. And
then and then as their doppelgangers like she's

1156
01:24:11.800 --> 01:24:15.479
standing in the door, Helen uh
stares off and her eyes are glowing.

1157
01:24:16.000 --> 01:24:24.560
Man, maybe maybe you're right about
the um the monologue, Yeah, about

1158
01:24:24.560 --> 01:24:29.960
the monologue representing her? Maybe she
was chance right? You thought she was?

1159
01:24:30.000 --> 01:24:33.000
Answered? Did you think she was
Faith? I'm sorry Faith, because

1160
01:24:33.359 --> 01:24:40.239
in the monologue she's talking about how
she had to protect her faith, and

1161
01:24:40.399 --> 01:24:45.119
she was saying something about like I
have to let like sister Faith go or

1162
01:24:45.199 --> 01:24:53.239
something. Huh that could be why
where the doppelganger went after her. It

1163
01:24:53.439 --> 01:24:56.760
definitely has something to do with the
monologue. I yeah, no, I

1164
01:24:56.920 --> 01:25:00.439
I love it. I I had
not thought about that at all. I'm

1165
01:25:00.479 --> 01:25:06.359
so amped right now. Man,
No I think I think. Mmmm,

1166
01:25:06.800 --> 01:25:10.439
well, I guess this. I
know what I'm watching tonight while I suck

1167
01:25:10.479 --> 01:25:15.039
on my PDA light. So,
but is there anything else you'd like to

1168
01:25:15.039 --> 01:25:18.119
say about Possession before we wrap it
up in a nice little um uh domestic

1169
01:25:18.239 --> 01:25:29.359
of abuse bow. I think it's
a very weird movie. I love it.

1170
01:25:29.680 --> 01:25:34.479
It's in my top five. Yeah, it is actually nice. No,

1171
01:25:34.600 --> 01:25:40.520
that's I mean, that's awesome.
Thank you. Um. I think

1172
01:25:40.560 --> 01:25:45.039
if you want to see a film
that has incredible performances, I would say

1173
01:25:45.079 --> 01:25:49.000
that Isabella Johnny is the standout in
the movie, obviously, but Sam neil

1174
01:25:49.119 --> 01:25:56.439
is he meets her there in a
lot of the scenes. Um yeah,

1175
01:25:57.319 --> 01:26:00.279
I don't know. It's great.
You should check it out if you're in

1176
01:26:00.319 --> 01:26:03.319
the US because it's on Shutter and
it used to be super obscure and no

1177
01:26:03.399 --> 01:26:08.439
one could find it, and now
Shutter has it, So check it out

1178
01:26:08.439 --> 01:26:11.560
while you can. For the uninitiated. Shutter is only five ninety nine for

1179
01:26:11.680 --> 01:26:15.119
one month. Yes, I don't
have a promo code for a Shutter.

1180
01:26:15.239 --> 01:26:18.800
I'm just either promoting it because I
like Shutter, Yeah, and I like

1181
01:26:18.920 --> 01:26:24.079
that they have that They have Possession
on there, I mean, and a

1182
01:26:24.159 --> 01:26:27.239
lot of other good films too.
So yeah, if you're if you're debating

1183
01:26:27.279 --> 01:26:29.840
between renting it or just getting Shutter
for a month, get Shutter for a

1184
01:26:29.920 --> 01:26:31.119
month. It'll might be a dollar
more, but you'll get a lot more

1185
01:26:31.159 --> 01:26:35.920
out of it. There is also
I don't know if you can find it

1186
01:26:36.000 --> 01:26:40.279
online, but I have a copy
of Possession, and there is you can

1187
01:26:40.359 --> 01:26:44.880
watch the film with commentary from the
director, which is very interesting, so

1188
01:26:44.960 --> 01:26:46.279
I recommend that as well. I
think it's out of print, but I

1189
01:26:46.359 --> 01:26:49.119
heard that it's coming back into print. There's going to have a new edition,

1190
01:26:49.359 --> 01:26:53.119
like a standard edition for people who
get amazing, I hope. So

1191
01:26:53.199 --> 01:26:58.079
because I want to own it now, obviously I want to own that.

1192
01:26:58.920 --> 01:27:00.680
So I show you my it's pretty
cool. Yeah, go grab it,

1193
01:27:01.279 --> 01:27:11.079
Okay, Oh I'm excited. It's
right over here. So while she's checking

1194
01:27:11.159 --> 01:27:13.960
that out, she can't hear us
right now, So now I can say

1195
01:27:14.039 --> 01:27:20.000
bad things. I have nothing bad
to say. I spent forty dollars on

1196
01:27:20.079 --> 01:27:26.199
this because I couldn't find it anywhere. Yeah, it's really hard to find.

1197
01:27:27.319 --> 01:27:30.079
Look at how pretty it is.
It's beautiful. It is beautiful.

1198
01:27:30.239 --> 01:27:33.680
And then even boss, it's got
a it's got a sheen to the woman's

1199
01:27:33.760 --> 01:27:41.359
chest on the cover. Yes,
oh this is too good. Look how

1200
01:27:41.439 --> 01:27:45.199
cool it is? Now I want
to go on eBay and just find that

1201
01:27:45.279 --> 01:27:50.279
and pay whatever they ask. I'm
the worst. Yeah, it's pretty cool.

1202
01:27:50.800 --> 01:27:55.720
That's a beautiful package. Right,
it's got a little booklet with some

1203
01:27:56.359 --> 01:28:01.039
fun info in there. So before
we take off, what's going on on?

1204
01:28:01.079 --> 01:28:03.560
Sweet and spooky? Right now?
Didn't you just you just posted a

1205
01:28:03.760 --> 01:28:11.279
review? Right? I did.
I'm playing them to help you from a

1206
01:28:11.359 --> 01:28:15.159
popular and unpopular review. Probably,
Actually, everybody's been quite nice. I

1207
01:28:15.439 --> 01:28:19.039
just posted a review of Renfield.
Check it out. I'm not going to

1208
01:28:19.119 --> 01:28:21.439
tell you whether I liked it or
hated it. Go check out the video.

1209
01:28:21.600 --> 01:28:26.000
Yeah, the rent Fields the new
the new movie with Nicholas Cage playing

1210
01:28:26.039 --> 01:28:31.359
Dracula for those unaware, Yes,
we love Nicholas Cage pig. Yeah,

1211
01:28:32.039 --> 01:28:41.800
phenomenal movie for sure. Anyway,
um in in, Oh my goodness,

1212
01:28:42.359 --> 01:28:45.359
in a week? Is it it? In a week? Hold on?

1213
01:28:47.159 --> 01:28:56.720
Yeah, oh my god, it's
a yes. This Saturday, July first,

1214
01:28:56.920 --> 01:29:00.680
at a p m. Eastern Standard
time, you're doing I've reading of

1215
01:29:00.000 --> 01:29:04.640
Tusk either if we're going to Canaday
all right? Ay? Well, And

1216
01:29:04.920 --> 01:29:08.560
I want to mention if you're listening
to this today it published. That's that

1217
01:29:08.640 --> 01:29:12.920
means that tomorrow it will be the
live stream. So go to Sweet and

1218
01:29:12.960 --> 01:29:16.039
Spooky on YouTube. You can just
type in sweet and Spooky you'll find her.

1219
01:29:16.159 --> 01:29:19.119
Don't worry, and there'll also be
a link in the show notes.

1220
01:29:19.399 --> 01:29:21.680
Go check out Salise live streaming.
It's a lot of fun. And you

1221
01:29:21.720 --> 01:29:25.920
guys are gonna be doing a table
read of Tusk. Yes, it's a

1222
01:29:25.960 --> 01:29:29.039
lot of fun. So I love
the artwork you made by the way.

1223
01:29:29.359 --> 01:29:31.039
I looked at it for like two
minutes before I realized it was Rocco.

1224
01:29:31.199 --> 01:29:36.079
You would replace that, replaced the
cold, replaced Justin Long. Yes,

1225
01:29:36.239 --> 01:29:42.439
it's actually an inside jug with that
that I guess I'll tell you about.

1226
01:29:42.800 --> 01:29:46.520
So when Rocco and I first met
as teenagers, the reason I had a

1227
01:29:46.600 --> 01:29:50.159
big crush on Rocco is because I
thought Rocco looked a lot like Justin Long,

1228
01:29:50.239 --> 01:29:56.199
who was one of my childhood crushes. So this was like meant to

1229
01:29:56.279 --> 01:30:00.359
happen. I'm like, you're Justin
Long and that's it. He does zim

1230
01:30:00.640 --> 01:30:03.600
all right, they favor them.
Sorry, they definitely favor favor Justin Long,

1231
01:30:03.880 --> 01:30:08.560
So all right, Well, make
sure to check out Salise's show.

1232
01:30:08.640 --> 01:30:10.720
I know I mentioned it before,
but a few people have already told me

1233
01:30:10.760 --> 01:30:14.840
they subscribed and have said that they've
enjoyed your videos. So if you're listening

1234
01:30:14.920 --> 01:30:17.239
to this, go check them out. Thank you so much Salise for hanging

1235
01:30:17.279 --> 01:30:20.039
out with me and talking about movies. It means the world to me.

1236
01:30:20.119 --> 01:30:25.479
It really does. Of course,
anytime, so we'll be back sooner than

1237
01:30:25.560 --> 01:30:29.680
you think with more Cutting Deep into
Horror, But for now, it's time

1238
01:30:30.119 --> 01:30:35.239
to say good night. Any closing
words or or guttural screams of unspeakable evil?

1239
01:30:39.640 --> 01:30:45.399
No, yes, yes, I
love unhinged women. And check out

1240
01:30:45.439 --> 01:30:48.760
Possession. Thank you, We're all
about the girl he's here. Thank you

1241
01:30:48.840 --> 01:30:54.359
for listening to Cutting Deep into Horror. If you'd like to email and Regae

1242
01:30:54.479 --> 01:30:58.800
or Salise and suggest a film or
topic, send it to Weekly Spooky at

1243
01:30:58.920 --> 01:31:02.920
gmail dot com. Now and Regue
would like to thank our Patreon backers.

1244
01:31:03.399 --> 01:31:08.159
Over ninety of you have chosen to
support us by going to Weekly Spooky dot

1245
01:31:08.239 --> 01:31:11.479
com and clicking on Patreon for as
little as one dollar a month. You

1246
01:31:11.520 --> 01:31:15.640
can support the show directly, but
I especially want to thank our Patreon podcast

1247
01:31:15.720 --> 01:31:18.319
boosters, folks who pay a little
bit more to hear their name right here

1248
01:31:18.359 --> 01:31:23.640
on the show. And they are
Bobbletopia dot Com, Megan Hua, Julia

1249
01:31:23.760 --> 01:31:27.399
Kersh, Brent mccallaugh, Gino Lyon, Steve King, Karen We Met,

1250
01:31:27.520 --> 01:31:30.640
Jack Ker and Craig Cohen. I
also want to say thank you to our

1251
01:31:30.720 --> 01:31:34.439
producer Dan Wilder, our executive producer
Rob Fields, and our composer Ray Maddis

1252
01:31:34.760 --> 01:31:40.239
who made the song you're currently listening. To see you next time. Until

1253
01:31:40.359 --> 01:31:45.680
then, don't be afraid of the
dark or do you are an adopt and

1254
01:31:45.920 --> 01:31:47.600
can do what you want.